₦airaland Forum

solutionsnow:
Was Jesus preaching the garden of Eden or its restoration? No no no. So preach the heavenly kingdom Jesus preached of. You guys are obsessed with inheriting the earth, you want to inherit Microsoft and Facebook. Day-dreamers. The creator of heaven and earth says they will be destroyed by fire. Open your eyes, read the bible.

They are not even inherit any shit...because to them at Armageddon everything will be destroyed! So they must start afresh.

Imagine how horrible their over one hundred years on paradise earth would be.

1. They must first wait for maggot and worm to eat the flesh of over 6 billion people living on earth only Jehovah knows how long this will take.
2. After that, the bones of those people can't decay, so they have to start digging hole where these numerous bones will be buried. That means earth will turn to grave yard.
3. All the debris from collapse building & road, condemned machines, polluted water have to be taking care off.
4. Build a residential houses for the over 20 billion people who will be resurrected will not be left out.

And what all these will be done by only thousands of JWs who will survive the Armageddon.

Jozzy4:
all this whistle at NWT is uncalled for. , man You should have answered me na and see what happens next coward

You abandon my question and now demanding for answer by force Hypocrite!

Jozzy4:
Man, And do you believe those version are accurate in all verses ?

Here he comes again.

Tell me is NWT accurate in all verses? let's start there!

CANTICLES:
remember , still expecting your response to Rev 3:12, can the supreme God have a God ?

Answer the question stop dodging

CANTICLES:
You didn't answer my question to him regarding the subject of discussion, how can the supreme God have a God ? Rev 3:12 , how does it sound to you?

As if you don't jump question too

I don't know which translation you are quoting from regarding Heb 1:8 . even many .modern translations offer an alternate rendering on this verse in their footnotes. so this is weak!

After offer ALTERNATIVE but what is their main RENDERING?

Do you hold Alternative rendering at footnote of NWT than the main Rendering?

dolphinheart:
go through my post , if there are issues about difference in verses, I usually give facts about what I've learnt.

No you only quote verses that suit you when you like.

as far as my studies have allowed me, I've not had any personal issues with the NWT.

Simply because it's your organization version nothing more nothing less.

I know you will use style to dodge my question but I'll repeat it again is it ONLY NWT that is correct (that is, NO SINGLE verse was wrong in its translation) in all ENGLISH versions that we have?

If your answer is NO! Kindly, show us another translation that is accurate.

A verse being wrong or right is dependent on the reader and facts brought forward to surport such translation.

No a verse is what the ORIGINAL Hebrew or Greek means not dependent of the reader and the only fact that can brought forth to support them must come from those who chose to study these languages which we called SCHOLARS.

I've not studied all verses in any single translation translation.

But what of the familiar ones like NIV, Amplified, NLT, KJV, RSV, ASV, CJB, NASB? Are these translations accurate in all verses or not?

like I've said before, their is little I can do about your views as to the source of my personal beliefs, if you have issues with my beliefs, we can discuss such beliefs, if you gave issues with the source, pls contact the source!

There's no view, you're a JWs simple and truth. So, all this new belief doesn't add up anything. Like I said, you can continue to tell those kids in your area that one.

goody1shoe73:
All you postulated My Friend, remains in the realm of conjecture since we can't and haven't seen spirits.

No it's not, we're following what the scripture says here that's why God inspired people to pen something down about this matter.

Spirits are higher forms of life,hence we can't see them.

So, how does your organization know that God and Angels have a BODY?

God and Jesus and the angels even the demons and Satan possess personalities.

Don't leave Holy Spirit out...we all know this.

They are not impersonal beings.

Yes agree including Holy Spirit.

They're are examples where angels materialized as humans,are u saying their spirit bodies lay in state in the heavens?

This is where we're going, when Angels materialized as humans this doesn't MEANING THEY'RE NO MORE AN ANGEL what simply happened was that THEIR NATURE which is spiritual one only COVERED BY HUMAN NATURE that can be seen by human. So, this make them to both be seen as Angel and Human at the same time. Because I'm 100% sure, you can't tell me that they're only 100% of human at that particular time their no more an Angel. Could this be the same in the case of Jesus Christ?

NOTE: not that their life was removed while in heaven and put in human nature but the whole BEING was CLOTHED with human nature!

The nature of the transference of Jesus life was an unprecedented miracle. It's purpose was to shield Him from inherited sin.

You're still talking about TRANSFERING LIFE. Please, the examples of Angels you gave does God transfer their life before they could materialized human nature or their being was clothed with human nature.

Angel materialized in human nature isn't that a miracle too?

CANTICLES:
this is what she is saying

the subject here is God of the universe or supreme God . the supreme God cannot have a God that invalidate the word supreme .

Jesus have a God ,yes or no ? Rev 3:12

The Father called His Son God, yes or no? Heb 1:8

truthislight:
You may have to read my post above again.

As if it makes any sense.

I had written that "the sins of Adam has been forgiven the sons of Adam through Jesus ransom sacrifice".

The fact that ones sins and crime has been forgiven does not mean that the person will always not face the consequences. David was forgiven for instance, the baby still died etc.

It was not because of our/humans sins that caused Yahweh separation from man, it was that of Adam's. Hence, we can now access Yahweh directly through Jesus Christ that has paid for that.

So after the Adamic sins that Jesus paid for, what about every day to day sins we committed?

That the sins of Adam has been forgiven does not mean that the imperfection and its consequences are no longer with imperfect humans. Humans still pays for the consequences pending when all the benefit of Jesus ransom sacrifices have been fully applied, and that will be in God's Kingdom when death and the likes have passed away. Rev 21:4.

What about day to day sins people committed?

Again, since it is only the removal of Adam sins that serves as a Barrier between man and Yahweh that has been removed, the stipulated consequences for sins is still operational, Namely: "the wages of sins is death", hence, all sons of Adam continue with that consequences pending when the arrival of the Kingdom.

Does it mean people don't commit sin anymore?

I cant really say how you understood my write up above, why you understand Roman 6:7 otherwise.

Your believe is that ONCE A PERSON DIED the person had paid for his/her sin (this will be their personal sins) using this verse a support. So, those who we survive the Armageddon when will their own sins be forgiven or Jehovah will just overlook their sin and allow them to pass into the new earth or these people don't have anything like personal sins

If someone were to steal a Chicken, and was sentence to a year in prison for that stealing, why on earth should he still pay for the chicken on coming out from prison? Nope! he wont.

In similar fashion, since the wages of sin is death, why will someone still bear the consequences of sin after dying?

At least you're getting close, your believe is that some JWs will survive the Armageddon and after the Armageddon the new life on earth will begin. The people who will survive this Armageddon don't they have any sin or are they 100% righteous

Please, kindly explain how these people will pass into the new earth without dying without a single sin.

Well, that is what the Bible says, it is not my words.

Yes it is but not every understand every single word according to the exert meaning.

That basis of dying and forgiving of ones sins is the basis of Baptism and coming out on a fresh start. Dipping in water(Grave) and coming out.

Peace

But some people will still never experience death, how does this people sin is forgiven

JMAN05:
I believe in visions, but there is no indication that modern day visions are empowered by God.

And this is coming from someone who claims to be reading his Bible always. In fact any Christians who has never experienced spirituality with Jesus in his/her Christianity life need to check his/her belief and teaching because God will never cease to reveal Himself to His people.

Jesus said: "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, [size=14pt]and will manifest myself to him.[/size] 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, [size=13pt]and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.[/size] John 14:21-23 KJV

The question of Judas here, is what Atheist wants i.e God should make an open revelation of Himself but God said NO! only if you love Him then He will manifest Himself to you.

Do you love Jesus and has Jesus manifested Himself to you, or Him and His Father have made their abode with you?

But the only lie you can hold on today is that no matter experience you have it's from the devil. Whereas we have plenty people who have had personal encounter with Jesus Christ which is inline with the above scripture.

JMAN05:
Jesus preexisted his appearance on earth. He has existed before the creation of the physical universe. This is not in doubt. One of the thing in doubt is a son (Jesus) being the same age with his Father (Jehovah). Does this sound reasonable to you?

So, which one comes first; created Jesus with a spiritual body and product of time who needs a SPACE TO OCCUPY and The Universe(Heavens including the abode of Angels and Earth)?

dolphinheart:
inclusive but not limited to the above

Ok give us some links to where you're getting this study of yours

once I can provide facts to surpport my personal beliefs, note I did not declare any version wrong, we are talking about verses, not the whole translation.

If I may ask, is it ONLY NWT that is correct (that is, NO SINGLE verse was wrong in its translation) in all ENGLISH versions that we have
If your answer is NO! Please, kindly list any English translation you know that translated ALL BIBLE VERSES correctly like NWT

if you have issues as to the source of my perzonal beliefs, their is little I can do about that!

Chill pal, you can tell that to those kids in your area. Once you stop attending Kingdom Hall's meeting, stop reading watchtower & awake magazine. I will take you serious on your new belief but as long as these three things never departed from you you're still 100% JWs in belief and study.

Notruthatall:
Yes. . .God has a body, but he is infinite.Yes, Jesus has a body and thesame nature as God. . .infinite. That infiniteness came and made itself an abode in something finite in order to take on a body! Hhe took on flesh!

I choose to say that since God and Jesus have a body only that this body is infinite, there should be a LIFE inside that body.

Now let me ask, when God sent Jesus into the womb of Mary. Did He send the Jesus' infinite body with LIFE or ONLY LIFE?

NOTE: Both the infinite body and life are DIVINE.

Jessicha:
malvisguy stop deceiving yourself , Jesus EMPTIED himself before coming to earth , didn't he ? Phil 2: 9-11

Jesus emptied what in particular from Himself before He came to world

How do you understand the same Phil 2:6?

goody1shoe73:
U asking about a spirit body? I haven't seen one mbok

Common sense will tell you that if Spirit beings have BODY there is a life in the BODY that's why the body can function.

Now that you people said, it was only PREHUMAN JESUS' LIFE that was TRANSFERRED into Mary's womb, where is the body that the life was removed?

If you don't understand it yet, let me put it this way.

Does God and Angels have body?

dolphinheart:
through study

Through study of the original Hebrew, Aramaic & Greek manuscripts, right?

no!

But you have right to declare another version WRONG all because NWT it's your organization translation. Keep fooling yourself!

note: the answers to your question are my present personal beliefs.

Personal belief as if you've stopped attending Kingdom Hall's meeting or stopped reading watchtower & awake publications.

goodnewscliff:
Definition: The Hebrew word ruʹach and the Greek pneuʹma, which are often translated “spirit,” have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and that causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired utterances originating with an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God’s active force, or holy spirit. Several of these usages are here discussed in relation to topics that may arise in the field ministry.
What is the holy spirit?
A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken of as ‘filling’ people; they can be ‘baptized’ with it; and they can be “anointed” with it. ( ) None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person.
Jesus also referred to the holy spirit as a “helper” (Greek, pa·raʹkle·tos ), and he said that this helper would “teach,” “bear witness,” “speak,” and ‘hear.’ (
) It is not unusual in the Scriptures for something to be personified. For example, wisdom is said to have “children.” ( ) Sin and death are spoken of as being kings. (
) While some texts say that the spirit “spoke,” other passages make clear that this was done through angels or humans. (
; compare with
.) At , not only the spirit but also “the water and the blood” are said to ‘bear witness.’ So, none of the expressions found in these texts in themselves prove that the holy spirit is a person.
The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will.—
.
See also pages 406, 407, under the heading “Trinity.”
What gives evidence that a person really has the holy spirit, or “the Holy Ghost” (KJ)?
: “[Jesus read from the scroll of the prophet Isaiah:] ‘Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news’ . . . And he went down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee. And he was teaching them on the sabbath; and they were astounded at his way of teaching, because his speech was with authority. Now in the synagogue there was a man with a spirit, an unclean demon, and he shouted with a loud voice . . . But Jesus rebuked it, saying: ‘Be silent, and come out of him.’ So, after throwing the man down in their midst, the demon came out of him without hurting him.” (What gave evidence that Jesus had God’s spirit? The account does not say that he trembled or shouted or moved about in a fervor. Rather, it says he spoke with authority. It is noteworthy, however, that on that occasion a demonic spirit did move a man to shout and fall onto the floor.)
says that when Jesus’ followers received holy spirit they would be witnesses about him. According to
, when they did receive that spirit, observers were impressed by the fact that, although the ones speaking were all Galileans, they were speaking about the magnificent things of God in languages that were familiar to the many foreigners who were present. But the record does not say that there were any emotional outbursts on the part of those who received the spirit.
It is noteworthy that when Elizabeth received the holy spirit and then gave voice to “a loud cry” she was not in a
meeting for worship but was greeting a visiting relative. ( ) When, as reported at , holy spirit came upon an assembly of disciples, the place
was shaken, but the effect of that spirit on the disciples was, not that they trembled or rolled about, but that they ‘spoke the word of God with boldness.’ Likewise today, boldness in speaking the word of God, zealously engaging in the work of witnessing—these are what give evidence that a person has holy spirit.
: “The fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control.” (It is this fruitage, rather than outbursts of religious fervor, that one should look for when seeking to find people who truly have God’s spirit.)

All these episodes won't help you.

The Bible says the HOLY SPIRIT CAN BE TALKED TO and HEAR, how can Jehovah be talking to His own energy

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." John 16:13

dolphinheart:
your problem is with the ratings of the translation, wunt go their with you. As long as I personally believe that a translation translated a particular [size=14pt]verse the right way,[/size] I'll use it!, as long as the words(correct or not) of a particular translation aids or helps bring out a point that is being discussed, ILl quote it!

@bold-I can't help but laugh

So;
1. How do you know when a particular verse was translated correctly or wrongly?
2. Do you ever believe a particular verse in NWT version was ever translated wrongly?

goodnewscliff: The holy spirit is God’s power in action, his active force. (Micah 3:8; Luke 1:35 ) God sends out his spirit by [size=14pt]projecting his energy[/size] to any place to accomplish his will

If the @bold is true that means Jehovah was talking to Himself when the Bible says "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; [size=14pt]but whatsoever he shall hear,[/size] that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." John 16:13 KJV

So, if Holy spirit is what God project out from Himself and not a person it means God is talking to Himself since The Spirit can be TALKED to and HEAR

DoctorAlien:
The demon is not inside the person? These people will not kill me with laugh.

Luke 8:2 says seven demons went out of Mary Magdalene. How can you say a demon cannot be in a person?

You haven't seen funny respond just be patience their LONG EPISTLE writer @Dolphinheart has arrived you will begin to see more lies.

Just notice how he will be using KJV and perhaps some versions which he never rated above NWT.

Sitex:
what's all these you have written here
I couldn't Make a single sense out of it

That means there is no sense up there to make a sense out of it. Sorry, it's not my fault!

goodnewscliff:
who claimed that...quote me claiming such....this is why i prefer paul grundy to ya all..u keep lying without quoting....u chat wit quoted fact...i never claimed jesus was human in heaven..can a human leave in heaven?? be reasonable naa dont waste my battery!!!

Olodo...who says you said Jesus was human in heaven Is Human DIVINE

Read my post again maybe this time you'll understand.

You see two FACEBOOK accounts belong to a Nigerian twins, one is turning 23years old and the second is turning 19years old.

You don't have option than to feel like

goodnewscliff:
wow...u funny...u think jesus is a human?

And you're so ridiculous!

spiritual form of life is way different from ours...

Now, you're talking. Which means in their spiritual realm a FULL PERSON can still become like a baby human without cease to be that PERSON.

theres nothing God cant do??

But not to removed LIFE in a PERSON and sent it to earth and CLAIMED HE SENT HIS SON.

how do u xplain it jesus who was leaving in heaven jumped into mary womb?? how would u xplain it??were u d one who slept with mary to concieve jesus....maybe what would u say abt dis??

None of your questions helped you either.

You claimed Jesus is 100% human nothing is divine in Him yet A DIVINE LIFE was sent into Mary's womb, please how was this DIVINE LIFE suddenly lost in Mary's womb and another 100% Human nature comes up again

At least we can trace this DIVINE LIFE into Mary's womb now!

truthislight:
If The Bible teaches torment in hell fire, then it would not have been a threat.

Preaching what the Bible says is teaching the Truth.

Now it's because Bible doesn't teach not that a loving God can't throw His son into fire as you people always say. Hypocrite!

I don't need to argue with you whether Bible teaches Hell fire because I know you'll never see it in corrupt NWT which is your God. But I'm only want to point out how irrational it is to accuse those who believe according the scripture that Hell fire exists as a wickedness to portrait a LOVING God whereas this same LOVING God who does not wicked can destroy over 6Billions people.

goody1shoe73:
Jehovah transferred the life of His son Jesus to the womb of Mary by the operation of His Holy Spirit or Active FORCE

And I asked, where is the body where the LIFE was removed or the TRANSFERED LIFE is another personality of the Son

You people keep saying TRANSFERED LIFE, isn't the LIFE housed by a body or does this LIFE is the whole nature in which the Son exist

goody1shoe73:
How can the lifeless body of his son be in heaven when He is a spirit?

You should have asked your organization (that believed ALL SPIRIT BEINGS including JEHOVAH have a BODY) that question not me.

A spirit do not possess our type of body.

But your organization said spirit beings possess BODY( NOTE: I'm not saying their body is like ours), why are you contradicting your organization

His LIFE was simply transferred to the womb of the virgin Mary,and he came to be born as a human.

And this LIFE was removed from a body, isn't it Is the LIFE another personality of the Son? Because the Bible says God sent His Son not LIFE. The Son is a person and LIFE is just force according to JWs.

Yes, he had prehuman existence but not dual existence.

Now, you're coming! In the Son prehumen existence, is the Son a person or inanimate like LIFE?

freshcvvs:
So If God wasn't going to "destroy" the earth, you wouldn't have been a christian?

And where did you read it from my post that people should become Christian because God will destroy the earth

People should repent because hell is real or because God's worth worshiping willingly?

Repentance doesn't amount to worshipping God willingly but to save everyone from that day God has chosen to judge the world in RIGHTEOUSNESS by the man Jesus Christ.

truthislight:
What is Hell?

Do you have any plan to teach the bible to people or it is your intention to threaten People to summit?

Are you professing Christianity because of the fear For Hell?

Peace

@bold-but it isn't a threat to tell someone that Jehovah will soon destroy over 6 Billions people in Armageddon?

xendra:
Truth is the highest percentage of atheists were Christians. and I believe the reason to be our misinterpretation of the gospel, or should I say misunderstanding of who God truly is and what he wants from us.
I've been reading some books by watchman nee and I have come to understand better some things about my faith that I didn't and it is such misunderstanding that sometimes make us start questioning whether God truly exist or even conclude that he doesn't.
if you humbly seek answers you will find.

I will make reference to two passages in the Holy Bible

"Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." 1 Corin 12:3

"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." John 14:23

These are the scriptures many confess Christians don't put into practice, that's why someone can say s/he is a Christians for many years and still became Atheist or join another group.

truthislight:
I do not know how this is resolved, since it is on page one of this thread. However, i notice that a lot of postulation has been made.

Sorry, you people couldn't resolve anything just normal way of dodging and escape.

The bible does say that the son of Yahweh will be sent to the earth and Jesus is consistently called the son of Yahweh. It thereby means that the person that came has to be the person that was in Heaven.

Yes! That even this Son is also living in Heaven with Yahweh.

My wonderment in this argument is this, what is the aspect that is inherent in this process that is considered impossible for Yahweh to do?

No aspect was considered as impossible for Yahweh since The Son actually came and gone.

1. Is it impossible for Yahweh to make someone Younger or small?
2. is it the impossibility for Yahweh to give someone another body?
3. Is it the impossibility for Yahweh to transfer a person to a worm to start the process all over again?
4. Is it the Impossibility to turn Jesus into a human?

Yahweh can do ALL THINGS as He wills

5. Is it the impossibility for Jesus to be turn wholly into an embryo in the worm of a Virgin?
6. Is it that Yahweh cannot make Jesus to be that small in a worm and come out with a physical body?

All these won't save you from dodging my point.

All I'm saying is this, the Son of Yahweh is a PERSON and Yahweh said He will send His Son to Earth and your organization said Yahweh ONLY TRANSFERED this Son's life to earth.

1. Where is the body that this life was removed Since you believe the spiritual beings have a body.
2. Life to you is nothing but an ordinary force, this means Yahweh didn't send anything

7. what really determines what qualifies as a Person?

Is Yahweh Himself not a person save us this please.

Please, whoever wants to answer any of the above questions should think properly and based his answers from the Bible be for attempting to give an answer to those questions.

Thank you.

Peace.

Your questions are so baseless, so spare us that and tackle my points.

You can get more of this by checking this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/3325199/jehovah-witness-jesus-he

truthislight:
The sins of Adam have been forgiven to all sons of Adam by means of Christ Ransom sacrifice. Hence, the sin of all sons of Adam have been forgiven. All sons of Adam stands clean be for Yahweh. All sons of Adam have access to Yahweh through Jesus christ.

But the prospect of having Eternal life is open to only those that make use of this oppurtunity to make a good name with Yahweh through Jesus Christ.

Hence, the sins of all those that will be save at Armageddon were forgiven when they were alive and accepted Jesus and followed his examples.

Not accepting the son means DEATH.

Peace

You're even complicating the issue the more.

JWs always quote Rom 6:23a "For the wages of sin is death;..." which means once a person died the person had paid for his/her sins.

Please, which sins these people paid for again if Jehovah had already forgiven the sons of Adam's sin

Unless if you don't want to tell me that your organization don't use this particular verse to proof forgiveness of people's sins.

And it also means nobody living on earth before/after Jesus' death sins against Jehovah anymore...that's wonderful!!!