₦airaland Forum

Rilwayne001:
Or maybe you will have to read what i said again because it seems you didn't really understand the point I'm making their. I never said because i didn't get a response from truthmans2012, that makes Christianity anti-questioning and reason, my point is, why do all those who are led by the alleged holy spirit deviate in interpretation, understanding and doctrines of the Bible?7

No! You talked about Christianity NOT ALLOW for questioning and reason before you said some people used Holy spirit as a claim for what they do.

And you haven't answered my question, which blind faith do you have a Christian because you said Christian do have blind faith?

This will only lead to futile argument—something I'm not ready to do.

But you know how to start one.

Tell us whether Muhammad didn't make any claim that contrary to what is known of God.

Rilwayne001:
Christianity doesn't allow for questioning and reason. The other day i asked truthmans2012 about the concept of Trinity, he said i would need the holy spirit to understand the concept. I now asked him that, could it be that you (annunaki), for you not to understand the concept, does it mean that you don't have the holy spirit? I am yet to get a response for that.

It's evident that you're just lying here, because someone can't answer you so you must conclude that Christianity doesn't ALLOW for questioning and reason.

It is only in Christianity, that you have to first of all have blind faith before you can understand the way of God, it isn't so in Islam. It is only in Christianity that everyone claim to have the holy spirit as guidance when actually they all differ in the interpretation of the Bible as well as the doctrine they follow.

Tell me the blind faith you first have as a Christian.

Thank God you said "CLAIM" which means anybody can make any claim including Muhammad saying it's Allah who told him to marry Aisha. That's is a claim too!

You know all these, don't you? Yet you go about lying for Jesus.

Imaging lying for Jesus, do you even understand what you're saying?

dolphinheart:
I believe I've answered your questions several times!

You haven't! And don't dodge it.

I posted some verses from two translations you accepted, you initially claimed that those translations don't have verses that give different meanings when they are translated. After giving you those verses, I gave some points and asked some questions which up till now you refuse to respond to. I even put those points and questions in another color for you to see, but still you did not respond to it.
It is clear that those verses did not give the same meaning, neither do they contain same content or issues.

The reason why I didn't respond is that, I know you're looking for away to divert from the point have raised.
Which I don't have time for, so safe yourself from all this because it won't help you.

My statement still stands, I accept ALL THOSE Translations I listed that time and I can see you've misunderstood point up there but I don't have time for that.

here below is the post again, let's see if you will a dress the different issues raised when comparing the translations of each verse.
(Note it is evident that both translations can't be correct, since you say you accept both translations, do you then accept incorrect translations)

"[b]maybe you did not read the points I made after I quoted the verses, Ill repost them and put the point in red for you to read and respond to, note it is not about accuracy, but the difference in meaning and message passed!
(1) 1 John 5: 7
NIV translation : For there are three that testify:
KJV says: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Apart from the fact that they do not have the same words , they also do not have the same meaning or are they telling us the same thing?
so can you explain these differences in that verse?

(2) rev 1:8
NIV says :"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
KJV says : I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
the words " the begginING and the ending" cannot be found in the NIV, pls tell us why, cus such words go a long way in telling us who that verse is referring to.
are those words meant to be their like in the KJV or not meant to be their like in the NIV?

(3) isaiah 9:6
NIV says: You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as warriors rejoice when dividing the plunder.
KJV says: Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
NIV helps us to understand that God increased their joy while KJV says the opposite, can you espanciate on the difference between the two and tell us which is right and which is wrong? cus they give us different meaning!

another one is 1 ti:3:16, kjv says "God was manifest in the flesh", but the NIV says " he appeared in the flesh".
pls tell us, did the NIV translate the Greek word for God "theos" to "he" in that verse or did the KJV Translate the Greek word for "he" to "god"?

If not because copy and paste that you're doing, how will you know that what you quoted from Isaiah 9:6 wasn't exert content.
Just continue.

you have been asking several questions about the NWT, I asked you questions about the translations you accepted and agree with, but you refuse to answer any of my questions.
(Note that I even numbered the scriptures qouted)

I told you, I accept more than ONE TRANSALTION in all over thousands of Bible translations we have. I didn't hold anyone above another.

But the simple questions I've been asking are;
1. Is there any VERSE you found WRONG in NWT just as you can find in those translations you're talking about?
2. If you use NIV and KJV to cross check each other before you know that one is accurate and the other is inaccurate, which translation do you use to cross check NWT before you accepted the LITTLE verses you've claimed to accept?
3. Is there another translation you accept apart from NWT? If Yes! State it here....Simple

All this episode won't change my posit.

I have not checkmate any version with any version yet, I just quoted the verses from 2 translations you agree with and asked you to explain the difference in words, messages and meaning!

So why do you reject some verses and on what basis do you reject them?

that so far, I can use in in my study of God's word

So, it means you uphold it above any other translation. SIMPLE....which is what you're trying to say all this while.

so why the questions?

To get the above statement you just confirmed.

I do not understand

I mean, what do you use to check the accuracy of NWT before you could accept it to study God's word, so that we can use it for other translation accuracy too.

you say you accepted the two translations , I brought out some verses for you to explain the differences between the two, now you are asking me the same question you don't want to answer!

NO! I didn't ask the same question. When I said, I accept the two translations I know what I'm saying. But you who trying to make a point by quoting two different translations should come to conclusion like with this evidence NIV is more correct than KJV or based on how other scholars explained so so so verse both NIV and KJV are wrong.

So, you must answer that question unless, the point I'm making here is beyond your comprehension.

In Summary this is my point:
If you accept NWT verses on what basis? how do you come to that conclusion? Can the same study you applied to NWT before accepted it be applied to other translations for right judge?

So, stop perambulating and go straight to the point.

kaycexx:
John is Elijah...

John later died.

Then who is Enoch?

jaysparx:
Please stop criticizing witnesses, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses so U can ask me anything

I don't know when criticism becomes bring out fact from Watchtower Publications itself.

How are you different from the rest of JWs here on NL?

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT SPT
The Verb 'BE' is commonly appeared in day to day statement we make. In fact we can't do without it.

RULE 1: If the subject is 'I' use 'AM'
Examples: I am a teacher, I'm often absent-minded, I am in class every Wednesday at 9:00.

NOTE: Some people don't know the different between "I'm" & 'am'. "I'm" is the short form of 'I am', you only use 'AM' at the beginning of a question statement of Verb 'BE'.

RULE 2: If the subject is 'We', 'You', or 'They' use 'ARE'
Examples: You are or You're a teacher, 'We are or we're' so happy that you're here.

NOTE: People do confuse "We're" with the verb 'Were' Take note!

RULE 3: If the subject is 'She', 'He', or 'It' use 'IS'
Examples: She is a teacher, Buhari(He) is the President of Nigeria, My Car(It) is in the parking lot.

NOTE: People do confuse "IT'S" with the pronoun 'ITS' Take note!

QUESTION with Verb 'BE' (Question word + verb BE + subject + statement)
>>Am I taller than your cousin Seun?
>>Are Bola and Jude married?
>>Where are my car keys?
>>Why is the sky blue?

SPT in Future time clauses and If-clauses
Future time clauses and Future If-clauses do not use future tenses; instead, they use one of the present tenses, usually SPT.
Examples: >>Before Tunde (will go) 'leaves' for school next Tuesday, she's going to do her Maths homework.
>>After I (will go) 'go' to the store tomorrow, I'll give you a call.
>>When Shola (will get) 'gets' home tonight, he will cook dinner.

NOTE: Initially, the future words inside the bracket are the ones we suppose used but we use the SPT underlined.

Lastly, what we're going to look at in SPT is; USING SPT WHEN DISCUSSING LITERATURE
In academic situations, especially when writing papers, it's traditional to us SPT as the main tense to tell the story of a work of fiction like novel, a play, or a short story, even if the work itself is written in the past tense.

Example: Romeo and Juliet tells the tragic story of two young lovers. Two families in the town of Verona, the Capulets and the Montagues, hate one another. Romeo is the son of Montagues family and Juliet is the daughter of the Capulets family. Romeo and Juliet meet] at a party, fall in love, and secretly make plans to get married. Soon after young couple marry, Juliet's cousin, Tybalt, kills Romeo's closest friend. Romeo, in a blind range, kills Tybalt. This starts a series of events that ends in the two lovers death.

jagugu88li:
[/color]

BOOOOM, you hit the nail there bro!

Good job!

Thanks ma

safarigirl:
nein

OK, Kann ich dir helfen?

safarigirl:
Danke. Happy Sunday

Sprechen Sie German?

dolphinheart:
no, but note, my study of other translations is very limited.

That's why you can rate NWT above other translations which your studies about is so limited.....contunuuu

any translation I come across, but it's based on a particular verse, not the whole translation. and it is also dependent on the topic under discussion.

Then have you come across a single VERSE in NWT that you against

Answer my question....how do you know that very particular verse is wrong

maybe you did not read the points I made after I quoted the verses, Ill repost them and put the point in red for you to read and respond to, note it is not about accuracy, but the difference in meaning and message passed!

(1) 1 John 5: 7
NIV translation : For there are three that testify:
KJV says: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Apart from the fact that they do not have the same words , they also do not have the same meaning or are they telling us the same thing?
so can you explain these differences in that verse?

(2) rev 1:8
NIV says :"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
KJV says : I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
the words " the begginING and the ending" cannot be found in the NIV, pls tell us why, cus such words go a long way in telling us who that verse is referring to.
are those words meant to be their like in the KJV or not meant to be their like in the NIV?

(3) isaiah 9:6
NIV says: You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as warriors rejoice when dividing the plunder.
KJV says: Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
NIV helps us to understand that God increased their joy while KJV says the opposite, can you espanciate on the difference between the two and tell us which is right and which is wrong? cus they give us different meaning!

another one is 1 ti:3:16, kjv says "God was manifest in the flesh", but the NIV says " he appeared in the flesh".
pls tell us, did the NIV translate the Greek word for God "theos" to "he" in that verse or did the KJV Translate the Greek word for "he" to "god"?

I read your point and understood them. Using NIV with KJV shows something was wrong with some particular verses. Now you have one translation you can use to check mate the other.

Which translation do you use to check the little verses you've studied in NWT before you can say that you don't have problem with NWT

I'm not here to discuss how I arrive at a point, I'm here to discuss the point I arrive at!

Which point do you arrive at on NWT?

good that you have such knowledge

As if I care...

the scriptures

So which scripture do you use for NWT?

no, I just gave you differences in meaning and message from 2 translations you agree with.

So, which translation is accurate between the two?

you so not determine how I study and what I study for, you can only have issues with the result of my study.

Your studies must be fair not base on any doctrine or a believe in a particular translation before you can say yes I've studied well.

I know the result of your studies won't be anything other than, NWT is the only accurate translation among the over one thousand Translations we have.

truthislight:
Is everlasting life on earth not also a reward? Rev 21:4. There shall be no more death. In fact, for that reward of living where there will be no more death is the ultimate reason for my existence, Without that hope, life is purely vain.

Rats and man would have strive the same.

Cry me a river....

You can continue to fool yourself.

That verse said "YOUR REWARD IS GREAT IN HEAVEN"

Yet you're spewing trash here. The way you people manipulate scriptures only God Himself can deliver you. You take every phrase in that verse literal but giving ony this one another meaning. SMH

truthislight:
Jehovah sent his son into Mary. That is what the bible says.

This is the true statement of the Bible.

Go up come down, that is what that matters. attempting to prove vodo out of this is not reasonable.

But let's see how this whether it's a vodo or logically plausible.

While Jesus was in the worm of Mary, [size=14pt]he was alive.[/size] he was not dead. if you see other thing from that simple statement, it is your mind that is responsible for that.

@bold is my concern, which means the DIVINE PERSON sent into Mary was STILL ALIVE as A DIVINE PERSON and Mary provided a human FLESH to Him, Right? If you have contrary opinion as NO! Then, the person sent into Mary's womb as a DIVINE person was the person just CHANGE to 100% human? Which means it wasn't the Son anymore but ordinary human being like you and I.

God can make Christ to be small or to be an Embryo. As long Christ was not dead in the worm of Mary, that is what that matters. It was Christ. And it was a miracle.

Yes, but it means THE DIVINE JESUS was only covered with FLESH which makes Him have two natures since He was alive inside Mary.

Do you agree?

DoctorAlien:
Still not forgetting this:

Only a being with demons can make such statement.

Jesus who is the EXERT IMPRINT of God, the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God.

The person whom if you've seen, you've seen His Father

Yet JWs can still open their mouth and say such thing against Him

truthislight:
Why cant you see that there is a difference between Materializing and being given birth to by a woman?

JW teach that Jesus was raised as a spirit person from the dead, when he materialized to appear to his disciples, did they denied that after his materializing that he was no longer a spirit person? NO

Hence, this are two different things you are missing together, there is a difference between Being given birth to by a woman and a spirit materializing.

Besides, Jesus paid the ransom for a physical human person and not that of a spirit person. It makes no sense to say a spirit person was used to pay the ransom of a Human, e no match. It is called "ransom". Supreme Justice was at play, not 419(obtain by trick).

I don't like people deliberately leave point out of selfish interest and begin to address another point.

Let's start again!

What did Jehovah send into Mary?

JMAN05:
Let's have it so. Don't want insincere discussion here.

Shalom!

what is insincere here Am I the one who quoted that Bible verses

Equating YOUR REWARD IS IN HEAVEN with God's kingdom is the highest manipulation on earth.

Don't forget Jesus said YOUR REWARD IS IN HEAVEN and you want to inherit the earth. Who will help you collect your reward in heaven

JMAN05:
Gods kingdom is established in heaven, it will rule over those on earth. Matt 5:5, Psalm 37:9

Is it God's kingdom that will be established in heaven is the REWARD IN HEAVEN Jesus was talking about nii

Rev 5:10
and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth

Don't twist my question mr man, you quoted verses which you used to proof that JWs are the true Christians.

Jesus said your REWARD IS IN HEAVEN how you equate this to God's kingdom still baffles me.

dolphinheart:
but as far as my present studies has taken me, I've got no issues with the NWT Yet!

With the same level your studies have taken you to, is it only NWT that you have no issue with

Is it only NWT your studies limited on or NWT and some specific translations

I've got issues with verses from some other translations that I've studied!


yes



let's examine 3 verses

(1)1 John 5: 7
NIV translation : For there are three that testify:

KJV says: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Apart from the fact that they do not have the same words , they also do not have the same meaning or are they telling us the same thing?
so can you explain these differences in that verse?

(2) rev 1:8
NIV says :"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

KJV says : I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
the words " the begginING and the ending" cannot be found in the NIV, pls tell us why, cus such words go a long way in telling us who that verse is referring to.
are those words meant to be their like in the KJV or not meant to be their like in the NIV?

(3)isaiah 9:6
NIV says: You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as warriors rejoice when dividing the plunder.

KJV says: Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
NIV helps us to understand that God increased their joy while KJV says the opposite, can you espanciate on the difference between the two and tell us which is right and which is wrong? cus they give us different meaning!

another one is 1 ti:3:16, kjv says "God was manifest in the flesh", but the NIV says " he appeared in the flesh".
pls tell us, did the NIV translate the Greek word for God "theos" to "he" in that verse or did the KJV Translate the Greek word for "he" to "god"?

What I saw here, is comparing NIV and KJV and it shows that NIV is accurate than KJV in all these based on the point you raised. So, do you have any issue with NIV? At least the reason you can notice those points from KJV is because you have one translation to check the accuracy of the other one.

it's not that simple

It is!

yes

As if I don't know!

study

And no name of what you're studying.

I've accepted the verses of the NWT that I've had the opportunity of studying!

So, was your study limited to only NWT? At least if someone want to judge rightly, the person can't use one single sample.

If your study is genuine and has no string into it you suppose to combine nothing less than 5 translations at once to study about.

Jozzy4:
your irrelevant opinion .

Now it has become my opinion, not what the scripture says any more!

Jozzy4:
I strongly believe Jehovah will fulfil that prophecy man !

Even when you don't understand what the verse is saying, that's what we called brainwash!

JMAN05:
JW's stick to the scriptures as there authority, and they possess the identity for which Jesus and his disciples were known for; They love themselves as Jesus said would happen to his disciples [john 13:34, 35]. They preach, ALL of them [Matt 28:19, 20], They are hated even though they are not law breakers [luke 6:22-23; Happy are you whenever men hate you, and when they exclude you and reproach you and denounce your name as wicked for the sake of the Son of man. 23 Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, [size=14pt]for look! your reward is great in heaven,[/size] for those are the same things their forefathers used to do to the prophets], They are no part of the world in its political controversies [John 18:36; john 6:15].

@bold, Jesus said your REWARD IS GREAT IN HEAVEN, please who will help those JWs who have inherited the Earth collect their reward in HEAVEN

That bros with white sack has something different in mind than what OP is thinking....

[quote author=Jozzy4 post=49408556][/quote]You're now short of words!

Jozzy4:
your god no. 3 is an it , i thought its a person ! chai

And your God and Saviour are also it since they were referred to as IT in the Bible.

Jozzy4:
okay ! Numbers 11:17 KJV said the holyspirit is an " it " ? do you agree with that rendering ?

Not only in Numbers 11:17 KJV used IT in some places for HOLY spirit, that doesn't mean the IT usage is totally wrong.

Now your brother who is using KJV, did he accept KJV when used HE for Holy SPIRIT?

Jozzy4:
though of moral excellence , Jesus reject the title "Good " , he reserve it only for his Father . Mark 10:18

So which means He is GOOD but only on MORAL EXCELLENCE Jesus is not GOOD, Yes or NO?

Jozzy4:
speaking the truth = not Christian . hahaha haha , Mark 10:18 is always there for you to read when you understand that when Jesus say God , he is reffering to his Father . ( compare John 14:1 )

You know how to dribble and dodge question, the simple question we're demanding of you since is, is Jesus GOOD or NOT

You started jumping up & down like a monkey!

Jozzy4:
who exactly?

Answer my question and stop perambulating.

Is Jesus GOOD or NOT?

dolphinheart:
hope you are not expecting me to accept all translations of the same verse. seems you did not understand what I said, how can I answer such question when I've not studied all verses in one single translations talk less of all translations. I don't even know all translations, but as far as my present studies has taken me, I've got no issues with the NWT Yet!

Do you accept ALL TRANSLATIONS in NWT? Simple!
@bold-lol...but you got issue with other translations.

I told you why and when I use different translations.

But not accept some verses translation.

do you accept all the translations of aLl verses? you yourself know you do not support all the verses in the translations you mentioned , why do you ask a question you know the truth about.
These translations translated the scriptures differently from each other which you are aware of, it seems you just want to argue!

Who told you i don't accept the translation of ALL VERSES in those version. My friend there is no version I list there that I don't accept.

No! They didn't translate the scripture differently but each uses different mode/style in translation which doesn't change the meaning of writer's mind. In other word, what ever you read in KJV has the same meaning in NIV.

your views, nothing I can do about that!

That's the simple Truth.

can't do that, not studied all verses in any single translations.

But you can do that for NWT which simply means any translation that doesn't render John 1:1 as "...and the word was a god" is no no no for you.

you just agreed with me, fact is there are differences in scholars views as to the words and meaning of verses in the scriptures. you examine such facts and you as a reader comes to your own personal conclusions.

You examine such fact through

your opinion, like I said, their is little I can do if you have issues with the source of my beliefs, never said my personal beliefs are new!

FACT!!! Have you stopped going up and down with Watchtower & Awake in your bag knocking on people's door

My question still remains; do you accept ALL VERSES in NWT

What I will be doing on this thread, is bringing out the rules that guide simple sentences to avoid any simple mistake.
Once you know these rules, you won't be committing simple blunder in English.
After I graduated, I still commit a lot of blunders in English not until I sat down, studied and digested all these rules.
Don't mind those who will say after all English isn't our mother's tongue.

If anybody tells you, "after all English is not your mother's tongue". Ask the person, what is wrong in having an in-depth understanding of what isn't my mother's tongue?

RULE No. 1 Simple Present Tense: SPT

The simple present says that:
1. Something was true in the past, is true in the present, and will be true in the future.
2. It expresses general statements of fact and general truth.
3. It's used to express habitual or everyday activities.
Examples: i. Water consists of Hydrogen and Oxygen
ii. I get up at seven every morning.
iii. I always drink Garri for launch.
iv. The moon travels around the earth.
NOTE: Some of the SPT added 'S' and some don't, you will know why!

How do I make SPT?
1. If the subject is I, You, We, or They. Use the simple form of the Verb. That is, you don't add 'S' to the verb.
i.e I go to bed at 10:00, They need your assistance e.t.c
2. If the subject is He, She, or It, add 'S' or 'es' to the simple form of the verb.
i.e Tunde(He) goes to bed at 10:00, Sandra(She) usually walks to the store.

Negative Statement of SPT
Rule: Do/Does + NOT + form Verb
i.e Nigerians usually do not eat soup for breakfast, John doesn't play tennis, Ralph often doesn't drive to work.

Questions
Rule: (Question word) + Do/Does + subject + form verb
i.e Does your Dog bite? Do you buy your phone at slot? What do Segun and Seyi usually do on Tuesday? When does Amina eat dinner?

To be cont...

Jozzy4:
@ underlined , tell us who Jesus refferred to as God ?

General understanding of what human know as God.

Now answer my question, is Jesus GOOD OR BAD?

Don't dribble again...

Jozzy4:
Good in the absolute moral sense, not about been a caring or good SHEPHERD. context man

So what makes Jesus not to be good in absolute moral sense?

Jozzy4:
NOBODY including Jesus , I and You is good except God , Father alone , we are all bad people right ?

If you can say Jesus is not good just like you what else do we need to say.