₦airaland Forum

solite3:
I don't think you read the thread, nothing wrong there, it is all from the bible.

True. Its all from the bible but misunderstood to mean what you wrongly propose. It isn't so that as soon as we make Jesus Lord, we are eternally secure and out of danger of falling back to perdition. Peter made it very clear that these apostate teachers had ALREADY escaped by the knowledge of Jesus as Lord and saviour but still turned back from following him as I showed in my post. Again the Lord made it clear that because of persecution and moral decay, the love of many believers would grow cold but only those who endure all the way to the end will be saved as shown in my post. Furthermore I showed that a brother in the Lord can sin a sin towards spiritual death(losing eternal life) according to 1Jn 5:16 [note that death is spiritual not natural as I showed to ihedinobi, the other brother ] and the reason we were asked not to pray for such is because as the Lord said in Mt 12:32, such a sin will not be forgiven ever, the same reason Paul says in Heb 6:4...it is impossible to win back the apostate believers... A clincher here is in Heb 10:26-27, another sore warning to the believer because he can fall away through willful sin and reap the fiery indignation reserved for the enemies of God. So read my first post again and you see that all the warnings i highlighted were given because one who has believed can turn back to damnation, and no one is to assume himself out of all danger of damnation just because he has made Jesus Lord and saviour and this is not because of God's inability to keep us safe but because we all are given freewill and must consciously choose His way. Note one thing friend, we can take several portions of scripture to propose one thing while there may be several other portions that contradict it outrightly. This does not mean the scripture is contradictory but just that we do not yet have understanding of what we propose. At such points, we need to just keep growing in our relationship with God and allow the Spirit bring all understanding to us in the process of time rather than sticking to what is clearly contradicted. God bless you.

CaveAdullam:
A born again Christian filled with the Holy Spirit cannot lose his/her salvation because the life his or she has is eternal life which cannot be cut short.

Ihedinobi3:
1. About people being kept from dying in sin, to begin with, as I said above, we are all tested as to the enduring quality of our faith, so after we are saved, it's not as if we can never again turn away from the Lord if that is what we wish to do. The Scriptures don't teach that at all. In fact, when we sin, the Lord disciplines us to teach us to fear Him. If we do not respond positively to that discipline, but rather continue in our sin, the discipline only increases and persists until eventually, we either throw away our faith (apostasy, that is, reverting to unbelief) or the Lord ends our life here on Earth to cease our bad witness (that is, the sin unto death, see King Saul, for example). That is to say, if anyone is persisting in sin against the Lord as an unbeliever, the Lord will discipline them and continue to increase the discipline until they (i)turn away from their sin; (ii)throw their Faith away in order to give themselves fully to sin, and the Lord stops disciplining them; or (iii)die as a result of the increasing discipline, in order to preserve their Faith and end their bad witness.

2. If anyone suffers the sin unto death, they lose all their eternal rewards, although they themselves are saved in the end. But this is not a pleasant thing to experience. Consider King Saul, for example. He died believing, but the Lord put him through a lot of embarrassing discipline for his disobedience in the matter of Amalek, and instead of learning his lesson, he continued to worsen his own situation with his stubbornness. He tried to kill the person the Lord anointed to replace him, suffering embarrassing failure after embarrassing failure in doing so, losing good men and soldiers to David in the process. In the end, the Lord wouldn't even speak to him anymore. Instead of repentance, he worsened his situation further by going to the Witch of Endor. There, he sealed his own fate and received the Lord's death sentence. He died the day after that. See Ananias and Sapphira, for another example. What they did in Acts 5 resulted in their own deaths, and it was very likely the sort of thing that they had been doing for a while as believers. As for the eternity side of things, of course, if the sinning believer finds themselves saved in spite of their terrible behavior, they would be more than relieved, but the loss of eternal reward is no mean thing. To suffer rebuke at the Judgment Seat of the Lord Jesus in front of the whole Church at the Second Advent is not going to be a pleasant experience at all. So, the sin unto death is not the kind of experience that any believer with any sense at all would be taking comfort in. We are here to demonstrate emphatically how much we love the Lord and trust Him. Maintaining a sinning streak without confession is a very poor way to do that.

3. Nonetheless, the fact that some people would hang on to their Faith even if the Lord kills them through the sin unto death for their terrible witness is no proof at all that those who believe cannot fall away. They most certainly can. If anyone is disciplined by the Lord for sin, they most certainly can choose to blame the Lord for the discipline and throw their Faith away as a result of their anger. That does happen. Demas (2 Timothy 4:10; compare Colossians 4:14; Philemon 1:24) may not have thrown his Faith away because of the Lord's discipline, but he certainly threw it away because of his love for this world. If he could do that, suffering discipline is not guaranteed to make the disciplined believer love the Lord more. Some people would and do throw their Faith away when the Lord disciplines them for their bad behavior.

Your understanding of doctrine is balanced enough but I would like to reason with you on the sin unto death. This death is not natural but spiritual (absence of eternal life) as clearly shown in the context (1Jn 5:11-12), i.e. life is eternal life here, from which he goes on to talk about sinning unto death(losing eternal life). In fact in the whole letter of 1Jn, the use of death is spiritual death as in 1Jn 3:14 as well as in Paul's(Rom 6:23, 5:17,24). Furthermore, we are in fact asked to pray for believers who sin to natural death which is by terminal sickness brought by sin (Jam 5: 14-15). So please correct your post to that brother. God bless you.

solite3:
The answer to that question biblically is a resounding, clear, emphatic, joyful, glorious “No.” A born-again person cannot become dead, cannot be unborn again. I will give some biblical thinking here, trying to be as textual as possible, and not just theological.

No Dropouts

The life that is imparted in the new birth is precisely eternal life. “This is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life [has given us eternal life], and this life is in his Son” (1 John 5:11). So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in the life of the age to come.

“If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation.”

Here is another crucial word: “Those whom he predestined.” This is from Romans 8:30: “Those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” Now, glorification is the final state of permanent salvation. This verse says that all the called — with nobody dropping out — are justified, and all the justified — with nobody dropping out — are glorified.

So the answer is this: If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation. And I am going to argue that being called and being born again are identical biblical categories. We will be justified, and we will be glorified, because we have been called — that is, we have been born again.

Beckoned to Life

The kind of call Paul is talking about in Romans 8:30 is the call of Lazarus, by Jesus, from the grave: “Lazarus, I know you are dead. Now come out” (see John 11:43). The call creates the life, and that is what happened to everybody who is a Christian: God’s sovereign call created the life. That means that there is a promise attached to the call.

Here are a few texts that show this connection. First Thessalonians 5:23–24 says, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely . . . at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.” So the logic here is: If you have been called, God is faithful. You will be kept for the last day.

Or here it is again in 1 Corinthians 1:8–9: Christ “will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son.” So now you can go back and see why (in Romans 8:30) all the called are justified, and all the justified are glorified — because God is faithful. There is nothing automatic.

Preservation of the Predestined

A lot of people think eternal security is like a vaccination. They think, “When I was 6 years old, I prayed, and God vaccinated my arm. Therefore, I can’t get the disease of damnation.” That is not the way it is. Rather, it is more like entering lifetime therapy with a doctor who says, “You are my patient. You will do what I say, and I will get you to the end, whole in the last day.”

Here is Jeremiah 32:40, which has to be one of my all-time favorite verses on perseverance: “I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.” So the new covenant that Jesus bought with his blood is a covenant of preservation. It is not just security in some mechanical way. It is preservation in an active way. God is active in my life.


“Perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.”



When I ask people, “How do you know you are going to be a Christian when you wake up in the morning?” a lot of people are kind of shocked by the question. They respond, “Oh, because, you know, it is like being human.” No, it is not like being human. You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful. God will wake you up and awaken in you his faith.

Faithfully He Keeps

Here are a couple more verses that highlight God’s faithfulness: “I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion” (Philippians 1:6). The reason Paul talks like that is because of the way God’s faithfulness connects to his call, his new birth.

Or Jude 24: “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling . . .” I preached on this verse a while back, because I was, at age 67, just finishing up my pastoral ministry. I am overwhelmed by the fact that God kept me.

He kept me. He didn’t let me fall down and bring reproach upon his name and destroy the church. I don’t look back on that and put my thumb in my armpits and say, “What a good boy am I.” I say, “Amazing! Amazing! Now unto him who kept me and will keep me . . .”

Anchor of Our Assurance

This leaves, I think, only one key question that people always have and should have: “Well, what about people who are in the church? They have been deacons or elders, and they look like they were saved in college. Here they are five years later, and they have thrown it all away. Some of them die in that condition. What about them?”

I think there are two key verses that people should think about long and hard. First John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” The words of us in that verse surely mean “born again with us, grafted into Christ with us” — and they weren’t. They looked like they were. They said some of the right things. They had “tasted . . . the powers of the age to come” (Hebrews 6:5). But they were not born of God.

“You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful.”

Additionally, Hebrews 6 is a big stumbling block for people about the kinds of spiritual experiences a person can have and still be lost. But Hebrews 3:14, I think, is an absolute key verse in that book: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.”

The author doesn’t say, “If you hold your confidence firm to the end, you will get a share in Christ.” He says, “We know that we have had — from the beginning of our lives with Christ — a share in Christ, because we endure to the end.” This means perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.

And when that perseverance doesn’t hold, then we were never in the assurance. Here is the key: The assurance, therefore, is not automatic. It is assurance rooted in our confidence in an absolutely sovereign, covenant-keeping God, who gave his Son on behalf of sinners so that, as we look to him, the Holy Spirit testifies to us that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16).

www.desiringGod .org.com

paxonel:
everyone believing in Christ are all Christians

Ihedinobi3:
Okay. I agree with that. That is what the Bible teaches too in John 3:16.

ichuka:
Hi bro
These topic had been trashed here in NL.
Christains need to understand the full/correct meaning of Mercy/Grace of God.
Even in the OT the Mercy of God in the life of David was SURE!!thats no matter what David did,Mercy covers all.
That's the sole reason the Kingdom wasn't taken away from his linage.
Isaiah55:3..,Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you— The sure mercies of David.

OP, if u're gonna misunderstand scripture, its still understandable but what's not understandable is your not being afraid to actually tamper with scripture just to prove your misunderstanding. Or i take it that you lifted this from a source so you're not to bear the blame? Either way the author of this piece really shot himself in the foot with the scriptures chosen. To begin with, he twists Heb 3:14 which says "we become partakers of christ if we hold our initial profession faithful to the end"....and unfortunately you can't change it to say what you wish because v13 clearly says that "we should exhort each other or else any becomes hardened through the delusion of sin" showing the intention was to warn believers to hold on faithfully to the end or else they are in danger of missing what is theirs in Christ, the whole context of the passage was to warn of the danger and not to reassure. Secondly, 1Jn 5:12 which you chose goes further to say in v16..."pray only for the brother who sins not unto death but not for he who sins unto death"...the context again shows that if we "have the son, we have life"...v12 but we can go on to "sin unto death"...v16. Your two choices of scripture already refute your claims. But to refute further, the Lord himself foretold events that will unfold before He returns including "...afflictions and persecution against believers.. such that lawlessness will multiply, and the love of many growing cold but ONLY he that endures to the end will be SAVED" Mat 24:9-13 just as the point in Heb 3. Again Paul warns ...(Heb 10:26-27, 6:4-6). Again Peter warns, 2Pet 2:1...that there will be false teachers... even denying the Lord Jesus that bought them...who will receive the reward of unrighteousness(v13)...who after escaping by the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus are again entangled in sin...(v20)....it would have been better not to have known than having known to turn back...(v21). So OP, please prove yourself to be a humble adherent to Lord Jesus and scripture by correcting your thread, if you can see truth in what I've said. We all make mistakes after all. Bless you.

Pray for the baptism of fire(death). But the fire will burn you first and bring you to a high level of costly consecration to God and leave you with only what God wants in your life (narrow road). But it will completely consume every projection of witchcraft on your life and make you a vessel of vengeance against all witchcraft. Witchcraft isn't that powerful but thrives on the simple fact that you're not dead with Christ yet.

Simpleete:
Dear Nairalanders,

I greet you all, pls can any gifted dream interpreter or man of God in the house help interpret this dream with a possible solution: I had this dream twice in a week where I found myself inside my church naked with only my private part covered,but all of a sudden cloths will just be made available for me to wear,which I eventually put on. In the first dream I was completely naked but I used my hand to cover my private part, all of a sudden a short and polo was made available from nowhere for me to wear. The second dream still in the same church of mine,I was naked but using one of my cloth to tie around my private part all of a sudden I discovered my clothes hanged somewhere and I asked someone to help me get them which I eventually put on.After which I was given a packed jellof rice in the church to eat,which was been shared to everyone but I ordered for my own.Please can some one in the spirit help with further interpretation? Thanks and Godbless.

Sorry to say but if you follow some of the directives here you will lose your way. I advise you to ask for the Spirit of wisdom in your life(Jam 1:5-6, Eph 1:17). It will help you understand the parables of God. Now to your parable, here's the interpretation, being in church means the context of the dream is your spiritual life. Your unclothedness means that you are yet to be glorified and still walk in the flesh. Your righteousness at this point is not the effortless one that comes from the Spirit of God resting on you but from your self efforts to cover up your negative tendencies (that is you trying to cover your unclothedness with your hands). However, very soon you will be clothed with Christ and he will be your righteousness covering your fleshly tendencies. (You being given clothes. Someone will be used to lead you into this dimension too( the person who helped you with clothes). After which you will receive an impartation of the word of God(the food you ate), which will help you become stronger in faith. What you should do now is to begin to ask God to clothe you with His own righteousness so that you will no longer depend on your self effort. Pray this everyday until it happens. God bless you.

alBHAGDADI:
A believer can't lose his salvation nether can sin make him condemned. Stop spreading heresy.

John 3:18 (KJV)
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Even the verse you reference doesn't talk about condemnation but death. Sin leads to death, but a believe can die due to sin but is never condemned to hell fire as see. in the verse above.



1 John 5:16 (KJV)
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

You're so in love with what you believe and I won't try to convince you. We can't know it all at once but we grow in knowledge as we develop our relationship with God. The use of life and death in the whole letter of John as well as Pauls use in Rom5 is spiritual life and spiritual death(damnation) . As In the preceding verse, 1Jn 5:12.. He that has the son has life... God bless you and increase you in His grace.

FrLukas:
I see your point. But compare that with the brazen unadulterated truth of the scriptures. We were created in the image and likeness of God. God didn't wait for Jesus to die on the cross before making us in His image and likeness.

Listen to Jesus Himself, he told us that greater works than he has done, we will do.

Don't forget that he healed the sick and raised the dead, even someone who had died for 3 days and He tells us we'll do greater works. Why? Because He knows we have exactly the same powers and privileges he enjoys as a Son of God.

He has told us, "...you will tell this mountain to move and plant itself in the sea and it will obey you..." Do you think he was exaggerating there?

Why can't we do this? Because contemporary Christianity has and keeps delivering to us an impotent and washed out religion.

Jesus has told us that we should not worry about what to eat or what to wear. Yet, the average Christian hustles from Monday to Saturday, chasing money and dreams. Then comes on Sunday with a battered soul and depressed spirit.

Sings emotional songs. Hear his priest or pastor preach a "feel good" sermon.

Feels emotionally charged and then repeats the whole process again and again.

Do you wonder why Nigeria has the highest number of churches in Africa and yet is allegedly the world's poverty capital? With terrorism and various crimes rampant?

Doesn't it occur to us that the religion we practice isn't creating new beings within us?

Jesus Christ died. Was it to get us to heaven? But he already said, the Kingdom of heaven is within you.

Why would GOD want the torture and crucifixion of a perfect being like Jesus Christ to appease HIM?

You responded to my unedited post, please look at the modified one. Now to your point, i already agree with you on the main aim of His death as sonship, but the process of achieving the main thing He died for in our own lives involves us going through a process, which is why you were left on the earth even though you had automatic access to heaven ever since you believed, i repeat. If you follow the Holy Spirit, He will lead you into that process. Read the whole book of 1Pet, James as well as Pauls writings i referenced earlier and even all throughout scripture, all were written to encourage believers to endure through the process to the end so they will receive the reward of sonship. The choice before every believer is still to accept the automatic access to heaven alone (which makes the rest of your time on earth a waste) or to go through the trials on earth, overcome by grace and receive the prize of sonship, in addition to that. All these things you said we ought to do, we will and even more when the manifestation of the sons of God happens (Rom 8:19) but remember the process mentioned before this (v17-18). We however will do lesser supernatural works unti that which is perfect comes. (1Cor 13:9-10) That's my addition to your point.

alBHAGDADI:
Your analogy is wrong.

Jesus doesn't give you what you need to attain eternal life. He simply gives you eternal life which doesn't require you to work to earn it. All you need is to have faith in him.

That's why I said your analogy of Jesus putting money in your bank account and requiring you to build a skyscraper with it is flawed. Jesus is simply giving you the keys to a completed skyscraper. All he's asking is for you to receive it by faith.

He gives you eternal life(which is all the salvation you need) in your spirit (automatically qualifying you for heaven) and you work the salvation out with fear and trembling to fulfill God's will for your life on earth. However, if you carelessly lose the gift in your spirit(through the sin unto death) you are eternally condemned. 1 Jn 5:16. Not all sin is unto death though but all sin can grow and eventually evolve into the sin unto death if not dealt with by grace

FrLukas:
OK, so you are good with analogies. I'll give you that.

But no. You missed it too.

There is just one fundamental good news that Jesus Christ came on earth to teach us.

We Christians say that Jesus is the Son of God. The Bible says that clearly.

Jesus's incarnation on earth and the summation of his whole earthly existence was to tell us one thing.

Are you ready for it?

*Drums rolling

We are Sons of God too.

In other words, we share in the divinity of God. We are gods. That is our nature. That is who we are. That is the summation of the Good News. That is the principal essence if the Good News. That is what we have been charged to tell everyone about.

That we are created IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD THE ABSOLUTE.

That we are gods.

Not figuratively. Literally and in the most explicit and implicit meanings of the word.

We are other Christs. We are like Jesus. He is our Brother. The first born of all CREATURES. We are His siblings. We share the same nature as him. All of us. Sons of God.

THAT, my brother, is the Good News. The Bible points to that. Our life experiences point to that.

Now, how many Christians can handle that truth?

How many human beings can handle that truth?

Bro, you're not far from the truth but here's the missing step in your message. He died essentially to grant us sonship, the inheritance we have in Christ, but while heaven is automatic based on his sacrifice, sonship comes through a process that will require all of the grace he gave us (which is why he gave us) to bring it to fruition. It is conditioned on whether we overcome the trials on earth through this grace properly harnessed. Hear it from Paul...if we endure with him... sons of God(Rom 8:17-19), (Heb 3:6,13-14, Heb 6:11-12). The whole book of Hebrews was written to encourage the believers endure to the end( depending on grace alone) in the face of persecution to share in the inheritance of sonship with Christ. Its up to you to choose between just heaven alone or having that with the reward of sonship

FrLukas:


Christians miss it. They always miss it. All the time. It is a peculiar blind spot that is quite interesting to watch from outside.

What exactly is the GOODNEWS that Jesus brought? That if you believe in him you will go to heaven? You mean the same heaven that Jesus Christ said is INSIDE of you?

Awwww...come on Christians, ASK QUESTIONS.

Question all that you believe. You will be shocked that what you believe is radically different from what is the truth.

Your pastors sell passage to heaven to you at the price of your seed sowing. The same heaven that is within you?

Not all miss it.

You think the latter is the best good news. You can have it better, you can also have someone after offering the latter, still offer to come help you manage the property in utmost integrity and remit all proceeds to your account. He could still offer to be responsible for the yearly maintenance of the building after giving it to you. He could do every other possible thing in addition for you and all you would have to do is sleep and wake up and always thank him.
The point is good news can be stretched along a spectrum and at any point in the spectrum will still be good news. The question then should be which one is obtainable. Using your analogy, i will tell you the one found in scripture. The good news in scripture is say you require the 50 storey building to pay off your debt and be saved from eternal prison sentence(hell) and you happen to be a now bankrupt wretch and pauper that begs for food on the road (your original human state). Then a good Samaritan (Lord Jesus) completely unrelated to you in anyway at all comes to meet you to tell you He just sold all he had in life (it is literally finished) to give you all and even more than the money(grace) you need to embark on the project and has transferred the money to your bank account (your spirit). He also has connections with a construction company(Holy Spirit)that will help you execute the project to whatever point you're willing (freewill) to fund it. You will then be a fool if you did not fund the project to completion because of the stress of typing your pin again and again to transfer money (spiritual exercises like prayer, fasting etc.) to the company at each phase of the project or because you became used to your wretched condition(sinfulness) and began to like it, you then leave the money dormant in your account. So like Paul said, Let us therefore labour(work diligently with the grace given) to enter the rest kept for the people of God. (Heb4:9-11) as he himself ...laboured more than they all...by the grace with him (1Cor 15:10).

alBHAGDADI:
Now this is the good news

I won't be surprised if you avoid my reply. But here goes..

You think the latter is the best good news. You can have it better, you can also have someone after offering the latter, still offer to come help you manage the property in utmost integrity and remit all proceeds to your account. He could still offer to be responsible for the yearly maintenance of the building after giving it to you. He could do every other possible thing in addition for you and all you would have to do is sleep and wake up and always thank him.
The point is good news can be stretched along a spectrum and at any point in the spectrum will still be good news. The question then should be which one is obtainable. Using your analogy, i will tell you the one found in scripture. The good news in scripture is say you require the 50 storey building to pay off your debt and be saved from eternal prison sentence(hell) and you happen to be a now bankrupt wretch and pauper that begs for food on the road (your original human state). Then a good Samaritan (Lord Jesus) completely unrelated to you in anyway at all comes to meet you to tell you He just sold all he had in life (it is literally finished) to give you all and even more than the money(grace) you need to embark on the project and has transferred the money to your bank account (your spirit). He also has connections with a construction company(Holy Spirit)that will help you execute the project to whatever point you're willing (freewill) to fund it. You will then be a fool if you did not fund the project to completion because of the stress of typing your pin again and again to transfer money (spiritual exercises like prayer, fasting etc.) to the company at each phase of the project or because you became used to your wretched condition(sinfulness) and began to like it, you then leave the money dormant in your account. So like Paul said, Let us therefore labour(work diligently with the grace given) to enter the rest kept for the people of God. (Heb4:9-11) as he himself ...laboured more than they all...by the grace with him (1Cor 15:10).

Some would say the only sin is the unbeliever's rejecting Jesus but the truth is that's not it. No one can accept Jesus as Lord except helped by the Spirit in the first place. The sin in question here is of a brother not an unbeliever. This singular scripture in John (not to mention others you referenced) completely rubbishes the belief that once one accepts Jesus as Lord, he has eternal security. So about it, what sin is it.
1. First, understand that this sin can only be committed by a believer.
2. As described in Heb 6: 4-6, the believer is not any misguided, immature believer but one who has passed through all the mentioned levels of development. (most believers don't qualify today. They've not even tasted of the powers of the age to come to begin with)
3. This is not as a result of how grievous the sin is, because the blood of Jesus is enough propitiation for any sin, as long as we can repent from it, and no matter how late we do.
4. This sin is the sin the Lord referred to as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit(Lk 12:10) because it is only obtainable under the dispensation of the Holy Spirit, when we receive the Holy Spirit.
5. This sin is the cause of the great apostasy of believers which happens before the rapture (2Thes 2:3). Note: the stage is being set for this already as the ignorant preaching of a 'grace' that leaves us without any spiritual responsibility toward God spreads on like wildfire. I believe, however, in grace of righteousness outside of oneself that empowers you live a practically God-enabled righteous life that all around you can attest to and to overcome the struggles of sin and the flesh practically.
6. This sin is basically an outright rejection of the grace and mercy of God through faith by believers even when there is sufficient understanding of God by an initial experience of His power and life within
7. A believer who still grieves over his sin (he still listens to his conscience) and seeks a way out of his bondage of sin cannot be guilty of this sin because he is not wilful in sin but just ignorant of how to activate God's grace to overcome sin.

jiggaz:
Lord Jesus

O

EyeHateGod:

there is never a contradiction in God's word but any portion of scripture can be isolated from its parent context and 'doctored' to mean what was never implied. Only those who have the experience of the reality and not just a mental indoctrination know this and see all different portions agreeing perfectly.

jiggaz:
Morning

No one is saved just by the gospel of grace or any other but all are saved by grace itself. If u know all of the gospel mentally without experiencing tangibly and vitally the grace of God which gives power over sin, in any measure at all, you will not be saved. To have faith is to have the experience of spiritual reality and not just a mental assent. It is this faith/grace that makes you live out practically the righteousness of christ and not dead works. Anyone who masters grace will act out righteousness not just blindly believe in it in their minds(usually mistaken as faith)

You really believe man in his current fallen condition bears the image of God, or you believe with all your tendency for sin, you bear God's image? Think again. Circumcision is no longer a physical(though still medically advisable) requirement of God but spiritual

jiggaz:
Lord Jesus Christ

Funny enough, the preacher is already guilty of what he is pointing out, taking preconceived notions and muddying the passage with them. I think we should not hurriedly seek to unite all scripture under the banner of preconceived notions, rather let us seek God and grow in a personal relationship with Him and as we do, some incoherences will seamlessly fit together.

Now the assumption that these are unconverted people is wrong because these are people who according to the Lord had at some point accepted Him as Lord(They had said to him Lord..v21). They had further developed their faith as far as casting out demons, prophesying and doing miracles which many have not even reached to today(the unconverted cannot do these in His name, even the lying signs of the occult pastors are not done in Jesus' name).
You might then ask why He said He never knew them. Well this knowing is in the order of Adam knowing his wife (Gen 4:1) to give birth to fruit of the womb which is the fruit the Lord referred to in v18- 20 of the passage.
Again, their failure to enter the kingdom is not, as supposed with an unfounded notion in this passage, as a result of depending on their works but rather as the Lord said because they "practised lawlessness"( v23 in literal greek).

Again, the will of the Father which the Lord spoke of here that they were wanting in is not found in some other text but in this same text which is to follow the narrow way that leads to bearing good/desirable fruit, paraphrasing. (v13-19), corroborated in (Jn 15:8 ) which only few are ever willing to follow.
Also, a major challenge is that you do not differentiate between entering heaven which is solely by possession of God's seed in the human spirit(grace) and entering the kingdom of heaven, a quality of life- living the heavenly life here on earth as in Mt6:10(the subject matter here) which is by the choices we make here on earth and our lifestyle.
So as i said, its more important to grow in our relationship with God and with time things will gradually begin to fall in place rather than try to solve all bible puzzles at our current level which could lead to false doctrines and loss of intimate relationship with God.

ochibuogwu5:
Good spot-on,
however I hope this person who is saying "I am in Christ, seated in the heavenlies..."
have had his/her old-man/flesh(not skin) put to death together with the flesh of Jesus Christ on Calvary hence being *replaced with the new being/life; Jesus Christ(God and Man)* hence *cannot commit sin in his/her heart not to mention on the mortal-body consistently till eternity* thus "the water I shall give you, shall become a fountain flowing to eternity" (John 4:14). "...There is no excuse for sin" (John 15:22), "His name shall be called Jesus because He will deliver his brothers and sisters from their sin" (Matthew 1:21), "Anyone who commits sin is a slave to sin, a slave cannot remain in the house of his master *permanently* but a son remains in his Fathers house *forever*, if therefore the Son sets you free(adopts you into Son-ship via *willing and sincere believe* in His finished works or heirs of God or co-heirs with Christ; Romans 8:14-17), you are free indeed" (John 8:34-36), "All those who belong to Christ have *crucified the flesh* with all its passions and lusts" (Gal.5:24), "Those who are children of God *cannot sin* because the *seed of God(Jesus Christ)* is living and manifesting sinlessness from inside their mind to their mortal-bodies consistently till eternity" (1 John 3:5-10)
This sinlessness is not attained *gradually via bible studies, fasting and prayers, laying of hands, drinking holy water/olive-oil/anointed oil, engaging in Christian activities* rather it is *once and for all reality* just like Jesus died *once and for all* towards sin hence from his conception till ascension there was no sin that manifested in his life rather *His growth was in terms of responsibilities, facing trials, temptations, enjoyments, triumphant entry into Jerusalem and his crucifixion on Calvary as well as resurrection and ascension*, this is *the same growth* that comes with personal fellowship with the Holy Spirit, personal bible studies, general bible studies, fellowship with the brethren e.t.c. for those now carrying the NEW-LIFE(CHRIST JESUS) inside them......
or else
we might only be carrying out *motivational psychology upon those who are still living in their flesh, working for their flesh, working miracles, being committed amongst brethren e.t.c* who will be told by Christ Jesus Crucified "I never knew you"
Great Grace Brethren!!!

Have you experienced this sinlessness? If so, how did you arrive at it?

skyhighweb:
Let’s face it: the Old Testament God was a deity who really needed to rip the amphetamine drip out of his celestial arm. Although the New Testament gave us a kinder, gentler God with a bellyful of butterflies who only wants humanity to surround him in one big group hug, the Old Testament God comes […]

Proof? The above graph, comparing God's Bronson-esque kill count in the Old Testament versus the Biblical Personification of Evil, Satan. Please note that God's kill count is 227,037% higher than Satan's.

These numbers do not include women and children, so it's possible that Satan made up some of the slack punt-kicking Jewish children into the Dead Sea, but I tend to doubt it. That's a pretty commanding lead on Jehovah's part.

more on the article here
http://www.soundlala.com/news.php?id=1242

This is just one of many justifications which God will always have when judged from a more wholistic scope of reasoning.

Its the height of foolishness when a created intelligent being begins to think he can question the intelligence of infinitely more advanced intelligence of the One who gave him a finite measure of intelligence. Its as absurd as trying to subtract the number infinity from the number ten and bragging on such a feat.
Anyway as a fellow man, let me condescend to this foolishness by asking if you even know the background of the story in your quoted text because if you do, u would have understood it was an attempt by God who could not change the nature of humans with the covenant available then to do exactly what doctors would do in the event of a break out of an epidemic like ebola which spreads like wildfire and killing all its victims without sparing. Those 'contaminated' victims were unchangeable and could only grow progressively worse while risking contaminating others which they had already done in the background story. Of course the effects of this range from compromising the sanity of the sane community to eventually contaminating every human and making it impossible for God to come through a law-abiding virgin to bring deliverance to humanity.

Bacteriologist:
The truth remains that more people have been killed in the name of God and for the cause of God than for Satan.

A lot of people know this but only a few can argue against it.

Its the height of foolishness when a created intelligent being begins to think he can question the intelligence of infinitely more advanced intelligence of the One who gave him a finite measure of intelligence. Its as absurd as trying to subtract the number infinity from the number ten and bragging on such a feat.
Anyway as a fellow man, let me condescend to this foolishness by asking if you even know the background of the story in your quoted text because if you do, u would have understood it was an attempt by God who could not change the nature of humans with the covenant available then to do exactly what doctors would do in the event of a break out of an epidemic like ebola which spreads like wildfire and killing all its victims without sparing. Those 'contaminated' victims were unchangeable and could only grow progressively worse while risking contaminating others which they had already done in the background story. Of course the effects of this range from compromising the sanity of the sane community to eventually contaminating every human and making it impossible for God to come through a law-abiding virgin to bring deliverance to humanity.

Have you heard about the Spanish Inquisition? I bet no. Do some research about that topic then come back.

Using what men who may not have ever related with God do in His name to qualify a God you have not met yourself is quite shallow too, in normal human reasoning.

In closing, let me just tell you that you may be fortunate to find one or more people in your lifetime that could articulately justify the existence of God and his impeccable nature or as is usually the case you may not. Yet your justification/reproof for your belief will never lie in whether or not you do but in the undeniable proofs that nature and science have left you with which you have chosen to ignore. Only a fool looks at a robot with its highly advanced intellectual capabilities and says it was just an accident without a definite cause.

Hey bro. Are u still on this? We can talk about it if u wish. I trust you would get a satisfactory answer if you're yet to. Reply me so i know your stance, then we may get talking from there

Sound. But u got the Adam part wrong anyway. He didn't need to fast. Our Lord also didn't need to fast but just to set an example for us.

Righteousness89:
Bro go Read your Bible..

Ok then, God bless u bro.

Righteousness89:
[s][/s]

Don't DECIEVE yourself.. The World will be Destroyed!!!

The Earth is on the part of Full Destruction...

After the Rapture, you have the 7yearsof Great Tribulation.. This World will be Destroyed..

GOD ALMIGHTY will lead us back on Earth for the Millienium reign.. That's where we will have a New Earth , Just the way GOD ALMIGHTY Planned for Man from the Beginning...

Sodom and Gomorrah didn't survive it...

Those in the days of Lot, didn't survive it..

This Generation has Exceeded the Wickedness of other Generations.

You got it twisted man. This earth will only be restructured. Nations and cities under the antichrist rule will be overturned like Sodom and Gommorah just before the Lord will interrupt the brief reign of the antichrist with His millennium reign. Until then, light will grow for the believers while darkness will increase for unbelievers. Believers will be on the earth till then and will be the means (their prayers, sufferings and martyrdom) through which God will bring his kingdom on earth (then will be fulfilled ...he will put all things under His feet..) beginning with the millennium reign. The "rapture" of certain believers will not stop this. The only time the earth will be done away with is in its rebirth after the millennium (Armageddon) by the fire which comes from the Father which will produce the new heavens and new earth. So, anyway, believers remain the hope of this world till the millenium reign

Righteousness89:
The Truth of the Matter is That The World will not Get Better..

The World has Gone Nuclear in Iniquity...

I don't think Sodom and Gomorrah Committed up to the Wickedness, Abominations and Iniquity this Generation has Committed and is Committing....

The Present World is on a Clear part to Destructive Destruction ....

Please stop spreading hopelessness, its demonic. Read my post.
The only good news God has for mankind is that in scripture, thegood news of the kingdom of God coming on the earth, this and this alone is what will interrupt the inadvertent downward spiral of the current world. Yes the world will get better as believers rise to the occasion and pray as the Lord commanded ...Your kingdom come on earth as in heaven (Mt 6)...when we pray enough and pay the full price, Earth will become like heaven eventually, though briefly interrupted by the reign of the antichrist.

ebenice:
I was going thru a thread on twitter but could not help but wondered at the writings in the comment section

People saying heatfull things at each other , they call it freedom of speech and I wonder how long we can go if we keep going in that direction.

Insurgency is on the rise and bombings every where, our country isn't spared of such either

We hear of rape cases every where, of adult on minors , father to child and all manners of unthinkable things


Greed is on the rise and every one is just after what they can get from u or results to blackmail if u don't give in.

This is the World we live in , this is reality .

Is there hope for our world ?

The only good news God has for mankind is that in scripture, thegood news of the kingdom of God coming on the earth, this and this alone is what will interrupt the inadvertent downward spiral of the current world. Yes the world will get better as believers rise to the occasion and pray as the Lord commanded ...Your kingdom come on earth as in heaven (Mt 6)...when we pray enough and pay the full price, Earth will become like heaven eventually, though briefly interrupted by the reign of the antichrist.

Stephani3e:
I have been thinking for sometime now, since we we are God's children why would he send us to hell forever for sinning?
It doesn't make any sense to me, no parent would want their children to be burnt ( unless the parent is a psychopath).
Can't he just forgive us since he is a merciful God?
Sometimes some when I use logical reasoning, some parts of the Bible doesn't make sense to me, like the killings of some tribes ( massacre in the city of Jericho) in the old testament,
weren't those people also God's children since he created every living thing ,
why was he approving their killings and saving only the isrealites ?

OP God has never sent a single soul to hell. We are born in a compromised condition which is hell-bound and God tries to save us from ourselves but since he can't force us, we have to willingly cooperate with Him. All who can fully cooperate with Him, he will be able to save completely but if we resist him as our fallen nature is bound to, we will remain in our hell-bound condition. So ask Him for the grace to fully cooperate with Him

daddymummy:
In the bible school which I am currently studying to become a pastor,

we have been taught that JESUS CHRIST is the following viz:

HE is the King

HE is the Servant

HE is a Man

HE is Divine/GOD.

We have been taught that the book of Matthew portrays JESUS CHRIST as the KING and HIS representation in the book of Ezekiel/Revelation is the face of a lion.

We have been taught that the book of Mark portrays JESUS CHRIST as the SERVANT and HIS representation in the book of Ezekiel/Revelation is the face of an ox.

We have been taught that the book of Luke portrays JESUS CHRIST as a MAN and HIS representation in the book of Ezekiel/Revelation is the face of a man.

We have been taught that the book of John portrays JESUS CHRIST as GOD/DIVINE and HIS representation in the book of Ezekiel/Revelation is the face of an eagle.

GOD is the highest and the greatest in the universes and a servant is always the least in any establishment.


Since JESUS CHRIST is both GOD and a Servant as is taught in the synoptic gospels,

It means HE is both the greatest and the least in the kingdom of GOD/the universe.

OP please what's thename of your bible school, seems interesting.

Seun:
It goes against Matthew’s Jesus’ teaching on prayer. Instead of praying in private he is spamming his prayer on a public forum. However, it doesn’t matter because other Bible verses that contradict the one above can be used to justify this thread. My bad.

While OPs prayer is unbiblical and im not in support of it, please note that there is no such thing as contradiction in scripture. Only the unlearned in it think so. As they say, a bad workman blames his tools

Stanchem029:
Thanks my brother. One can overcome sexual immortality through the following steps:
1. Make up your mind not to do it like Daniel in Dan.1:8
2. Pray and watch daily
3. Fill your self with the Word of God continually
4. Chose your friends 1cor 15:33
5. Stay away from places where Satan can easily entice you like hotels and oloshoo joints

Yeah, in addition lookup my reply to a brother on that.

abbatoir:
Oh.. Congratulations!

Yeah. Pls also read my modified post.

abbatoir:
Bro, let me help you... take it or leave it You only have to focus on just one focal point and I assured you that's the secret of strength and grace.







Channel all your energy on your thoughts process... endeavours to keep it pure. Trust me.You will receive invisible help

Thnx bro. Im however not in need of help in this area by His grace. But i don't think we're contradicting each other at all, proper prayer, fasting and meditation actually help you channel all your thought to a focal point though I'm aware many don't pray properly as our churches have mistaught prayer.