₦airaland Forum

LondonCool:
Who told you that banks and other institutions have not invested with theses schemes ?? You must be bluffing yourself. You need to keep your ear to the ground and you'll be intrigued with what you'll hear. Bank staff and managers are involved in their personal capacity; some banks have permanent staff dedicated to the receipt of deposits and disbursement of payouts to these HYIP customers, and some even serve as Agents-earning commission on referrals.

For example, I hear 1st bank (the most respected bank in the country) has a special teller for people making deposits into Nospecto's account in one of their branches in Lagos.

The irony of it is that the article in THE NEWS mag seems to be a great free advert for some of the relatively unknown schemes which people now know exists. I can say a lot of the people that put their monies in these schemes (myself inclusive) are well aware of the risks involved. So what's the fuss If the EFCC/CBN etc consider any of them to be ponzis or fradulent let them PLEEEAAASSS come out and say so. Then we'll know which of them we can increase our stakes in and which one to bail out. But to think we'll chicken out as a result of memos like this is funny to say the least.

iyaegbe:
Ooooh, this is a wonderful site. Thank you for your replies. I think I would settle with Lead securities as it appears to be the one that is affordable (at least for now) though I think it will be better for me to wait till after election.

My lil knowledge about nigerian stocks tells me you re probably better off now rather than after the election. Preferably, buy in mid April at the height of the elections. The reason being that a lot of people have the same thinking  of waiting till after the election. To me this might cause shortage of buyers and excess supply during the elections (cos a whole lot of people might want to protect their money, thus they'll stop buying and start selling hoping to get back after the elections). From simple demand/supply rule, the prices might just crash temporarily during elections, thus prsenting good buying opportunities.

After the elections when the political climante has settled, lots of investors will likely flood the market hoping to buys share. Effectively creating excess demand for very limited investors ready to sell. Thus again from demand/supply rule jacking the prices far above the roof.

But, its just my opinion, I might be right or wrong.

@frankiriri and all

Any info on who takes over Cement Company of Northern Nigeria CCNN?

midastouch:
Alheri Engineering Limited, is owned by the Dangote Group promoted by businessman, Aliko Dangote.

dangote again?? biy, na wah!! I just can't stop tripping for this guy.

frankiriri:
Most of the so called penny stocks are rising based on the excess liquidity in the system which ked to the general bull trend.

I have also noticed that just as the penny stocks can ride the wave and have their prices rise in no time, its also very easy for the prices to crash as well. If you bought a stock at N2:00 this week and it sells for N3:00 next week, that already 50% profit. But its also 50% loss if it goes for N1:00 the following week.

Buttom line is to do your home work correctly an Frank said. I have benefitted from Evans when it was just about N4, I sold when it was over N8. I guess I was lucky as the price is nose diving presently.

Tmoni:
please i am ready to buy nascon if anybody will sell

@Frank, you can say the above quote goes for me as well. I'm very much interested in buying the NASCON shares. Just in case you come across anyone that's intrested in selling, pls mail me at felameds@yahoo.com

Thanks bro

@frankiriri,

Pls, any info on NASCON? its so scars. I hear their could be PO as well. How true is this?

frankiriri:
Dont know much about Afiinvest.
Have you tried IBTC or Zenith Securities

@ frankiriri

what can you say about Zenith securities? Do they have online service where I can make buy/sell orders and also monitor my portfolio from my office/home. Are they in other parts of the country cos I'm highly mobile

Redards

babyosisi:
and If aisha said this and also told the story where Muhammad struck her on the chest and caused her pain,she either doesn't see herself as a woman or we have just discovered that she is also a bloody liar.

Now, its Aisha that lies. Na wao. In fairness your submission would have been valid only if you had factored-in one very important variable into the equation. AISHA DID NOT COMPILE THE HADITH! It was compiled by other men and had they known her to be of questionable character, her narrations would not have been added. Including the one with the strike. Ever wonder why we call her the mother of Islam? Remeber, good mothers don't lie.

babyosisi:
He also forgot to add that the only thing a man needs to divorce the woman is say'I divorce you" three times either by himself or through a 3rd party and the divorce is final but the woman only can divorce him in extreme abuse or neglect and has to prove it in court headed by a man.

And yet again I thank you for reminding me. By the way its four (4) times not three. Let me reciprocate by assisting you with the exact verse since that task looks daunting for you:

"And for those who accuse their wives, but have no witnessess except themselves, let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies (i.e testifies four times) by Allah that he is one of those who speak the truth" Q24:6

Yes, a man can divorce his wife by swearing four time. But that can only happen if the woman in question fails to excersis her own GOD-given rights in the same chapter:

"But it shall AVERT the punishment from her if she bears witness four (4) times by Allah, that he (her husband) is telling a lie." Q24:8

Yet again you have proven that your view on THE GLORIOUS QUR'AN is very myiopic. A man can file for divorce by swearing four times but the woman can NULIFY it by counter swearing four time. To get the whole picture read Q24:6-9

babyosisi:
Remember that her testimony is only half the man's testimony.
So much for the glorious place of women.

Nope, not in all cases. In Islam, justice is genderless. According to the Qur'an, men and women receive the same punishment for crimes such as theft (5:38),fornication (24:2), murder and injury (5:45). They are also equal in reward for any good deeds no matter how small: "He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof: and he that works a righteous deed - whether MAN or WOMAN - and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss): Therein will THEY (plural) have abundance without measure."  Q40:40

One legal issue that is widely misunderstood or should I say mischieviously misrepresented is TESTIMONY. A common but like someone put it FANTASTICALLY FABRICATED white, fat lie is that as a "rule," the worth of women's testimony is one half of men's testimony. A survey of all passages in the Qur'an relating to testimony does not substantiate this claimed "rule. Many of the references in the GLORIOUS QUR'AN as regards testimony (i.e witness) do not make any reference to gender. Some references fully equate the testimony of males and females just like the one above. I wonder why they will continue to tell such lies against us.

Women do possess and independent legal entity only in financial matters:
[b]"O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing. Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let  neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah; For it is Good that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, - his heart is tainted with sin. And Allah knoweth all that ye do."[/b] Q2:282

We see clearly that the Qur'an says bring two men as witnesses and not produce one man and two women. The only reason when two women comes into the picture is if their is only one man available as witness. Even then the sole purpose of two women is clearly stated as: so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The question now is that what if the man errs? Thats why the GLORIOUS QUR'AN stated off with two male witnesses in the first instance.

Interestingly, I stand to be corrected though, the bible does not seem to suggest how to deal with our finantial matters. Why will anybody blindly faults a proven and workable system when what he/she believs does not give any practical/detailed recommendation as to how to deal with daily affairs?

I know your next accusation, but I'll give you the benefit of posting it anyway, it getting increasingly cheap and predictable now

At this point, I'll advice everybody to study independently and search for the truth with open and unbiased mind and take global look of any topic we come across. The first revelation that our Prophet (SAW) got wass READ! There are numerous books, film documentaries, the internet, lectures ,,,,. THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE, SEEK IT.

davidylan:
What is very good?
- an inglorious, unintelligent, unitelligible monologue called the quran?
- wife beating?
- temporary marriages?
- Hedonism, debauchery being advertised in some fantasyland called jaanat?
- islamomathematics where 15/12 = 1?

What is very good?

- an inglorious, unintelligent, unitelligible monologue called the quran? That's ur opinion which u re entitled to
- wife beating? DEBUNKED
- temporary marriages? Pls explain
- Hedonism, debauchery being advertised in some fantasyland called jaanat? Thank you but we believe in it
- islamomathematics where 15/12 = 1? Again, Pls explain

@babyosisi, shahan, dav, mrpataki
Let me seize this opportunity to sincerely thank you for providing this hadith. The hadith has two important subliminal messages embedded within which proves the points I’ve mensioned in my last post. I’ll like to treat the two points which backs up my claim first. In the hadith, Aisha said, “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. look! her skin is greener than her clothes!"

Now do you sincerely THINK that IF the Prophet (SAW) had been giving Aisha regular doses of strikes on her chest as punishment, she’ll still have the gut to approach him and play what can be called “human right activist” in today’s language? Wouldn’t she had rather said to her client “my sister, you’ll have to bear it ooo, I too have been getting strikes on a regular basis. God will help us”. Why do you choose to neglect the hadith I quoted above where the same Aisha specifically in clear-cut term said the “prophet never hit any slave or woman”. I think the two hadiths should be sufficient to debunk that fat lie.

The other hidden message in the same hadith is the fact that woman had the right to protest way back 1400years ago, something they’re just getting of recent. The one I mentioned earlier is that of a woman that complained when her husband refused to perform his duties on her and one full chapter was revealed to solve not only her problem but that of other women in similar situations. Here again in this hadiths is the right of women to protest shown. But this time, the plaintive turned out to be the guilty one. She went to Aisha (rather than the highest human authority at that time) probably to use the influence of Aisha's position to get the ruling in her favour. Aisha acted on emotion and sentiment. You and I know that emotion and sentiment don’t count in any competent judicial system against clearly proven fact, even if you hire the wife of the president as your lawyer.

On the surface, the hadiths at hand seems to portray that women were oppressed in Islam. In reality nothing is farther from the truth. The institution of marriage in Islam is a very important one and all diplomatic measures to keep it intact are employed. That is why divorce is extremely DISCOURAGED but ALLOWED if the couple feels they can’t live together. The woman lied that her new husband was impotent. An allegation he effectively debunked as can be clearly seen. She was first married, divorced her first husband, married another man, filled another divorce just to get back to her first husband. The hadiths is to guide against such indiscriminate divorce practices. If a man (or woman) knows that the only way to get his wife back (or get back to her first husband) is by having sexual intercourse with the present husband and also pray that he (the new husband) agrees to divorce her, then either party will think twice before filling a divorce. I know its not palatable. But that’s the essence- its not supposed to be. And if anybody feels like divorcing indiscriminately, then he or she must be ready to face the unpalatable consequences.

@shahan
What’s is your problem with the titles in the glorious Qur’an. I’ll advice you don’t focus on the title but the messages therein.

@bari_kade
Looking for miracles, this exactly the problem with most xtians especially in Nigeria and that’s why many end up in Pastor King’s church and get burnt alive. Will you not believe in your pastor if he doesn’t perform miracles? In Islam we don’t emphasis miracle so as not to idolize our icon, thus effectively preventing people from worshiping him rather than God. However, if the miracle is your priority and not salvation, I’ll suggest you go and buy the documentary titled “The miracles of the Qur’an”

@mukina2
Asallam Alykum Waramotulah Wabarakatuhu
My dear sister, there is no reason to be sad. Rather we should be greatful and thankful to Allah (SWT) for giving us the ‘life manual’ the Glorious Qur’an. The following is an excerpt from an article I feel its worth shearing. It was written by a woman by the name Fatimah Khaldoon trying to explain far more clearly some of the points I’ve been trying to put across, and also new concepts that I didn’t touch. I hope it will be beneficial to us all (Men inclusive).

Quranic Perspective on Wife beating and Abuse
By:  Fatimah Khaldoon

Domestic violence represented by wife beating or abuse is rampant in this country and around the world. While the exact numbers on domestic violence incidents differ, because this is such an under-reported crime there are statistics on which most experts agree.

1. In 1984 the US Surgeon General declared domestic violence as this nation's number one health problem. (US Surgeon General)
2. A woman is beaten every 15 seconds by her partner; it happens at some time in 25-35 % of American homes; 4,000 women die from such abuse each year. (FBI)
3. Physical abuse by male social partners is the single most common source of injury among women ages 15 to 44, more common than auto accidents, muggings and rape by a stranger combined. (U.S. Surgeon General, 1989)
*****
***** _{(censored for too many negative references. I trust your wisdom to figure out where she’s driving at)}

Statistics as these should awaken all those in denial of the fact that wife beating and abuse is an endemic disease in all different cultures, religions and communities. It is as common in Western as it is in Eastern societies.

Men in Western (and Eastern) societies do not abuse their wives because of scriptural teachings, but because of a natural instinct of domination and aggression. God, knowing this, has therefore decreed a perfect law to help men control their temper and to solve any problems before resorting to physical aggression.

These statistics reflect the failure of modern societies in treating this perilous condition in men. Despite advances in modern psychology and improved understanding of behavioral patterns of men, civilized and uncivilized, a successful solution to this aggressive behavior has not been found by man.

A solution has however been presented to the world in the Quran, the Final Testament, more than 1400 years ago, in verse 4:34.

[4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.

At first glance this verse may appear as if promoting physical abuse of women. But when reading 4:34 carefully _{(i.e taking a global look at it  and not just the beat part in isolation)} one realizes that it actually prohibits abuse and beating of women by using the best psychological approach.

The advise to first talk and then avoid sexual contact, provides the necessary time and space for both parties to cool off, reason, examine the problem and reach a favorable agreement for both of them.

Abuse of a wife will not happen if the man learns to follow the clear commandments of God in this verse and in the order decreed. Abuse will only happen when a man does not follow these commandments, and thus fails to cool off and reason with himself or with his wife.

Sura 4, where we read 4:34, entitled "The Women," is one of the longest chapters in the Quran. It deals with many of the rights and responsibilities of women, rights that were first available to western women only a few decades ago, and some that still aren't. The theme of this Sura is to defend women's rights, and countering injustice and oppression of women. Thus, any interpretation of verses in Sura 4 must be in favor of the women, not the other way around.

**** _{(Removed to save you from the boredom of plenty stories)}

In reality, a believing husband would most probably NEVER come to the stage where he would actually lay a hand on his wife. He would be much too careful to examine his own motives first, as a God fearing man, before exercising this right. As we see in the verse immediately following 4:34, when the marriage reaches this stage it's on it's way to end, as the very next words in the Quran reads; "If a couple fears separation,,,,"

Most women in the world today do not enjoy the protection verse 4:34 grants them. Instead they are unjustly abused, verbally and physically, by unrighteous men in unrighteous ways, and get beaten up for the most trivial of reasons, or for no reason at all. According to 4:34 even if the husband has a good reason, he is not allowed to lay a hand on his wife until he has passed all the previous steps. _{(According to dav, this is another woman committing fraud with the last sentence)}

The woman's responsibility in a marriage starts the day she chooses a husband. If she wants to enjoy her God given rights, she must obey her God given commands, and choose a believing husband _{(That’s why I said no one will touch you if you marry a muslim)}. Thus, she can expect from him to treat her in accordance with God's decree, and not transgress against her. She can expect from a believing husband that he will heed any reminder she gives him, if he forgets _{(Women also has the right to admonish their husbands. But don’t wait till its crisis time to do that. Give him regular doses of strikes of admonition before hand)}. If she chooses to disregard God's commands, she has to know that there will be consequences.

**** _{(Trying to condense and make it short)}

We also learn that one of the traits of the righteous is that they suppress anger.

[3:134] ",,,They are suppressors of anger, and pardoners of the people. GOD loves the charitable."

The nature and essence of a healthy relationship between a husband and wife is beautifully expressed in the following verse from the Quran:

[ 30:21] Among His proofs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other, and He placed in your hearts love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are sufficient proofs for people who think.

[3:195 ]"Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER,,,,,,,."

When facing difficult times, even if the man dislikes his wife, God has decreed;

[4:19] O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to inherit what the women leave behind, against their will. You shall not force them to give up anything you had given them, unless they commit a proven adultery. You shall treat them nicely. If you dislike them, you may dislike something wherein GOD has placed a lot of good.

And when divorce happens _{(I pray not)}, the full respect to the wife is urged,

[2:229] Divorce may be retracted twice. The divorced woman shall be allowed to live in the same home amicably, or leave it amicably. It is not lawful for the husband to take back anything he had given her. However, the couple may fear that they may transgress GOD's law. If there is fear that they may transgress GOD's law, they commit no error if the wife willingly gives back whatever she chooses. These are GOD's laws; do not transgress them. Those who transgress GOD's laws are the unjust.

In conclusion; A BELIEVING wife and a BELIEVING husband will NEVER get to the point where beating of the wife enters the picture. A BELIEVING couple will consult one another and agree on the best way to solve their differences as verse 4:34 and the whole scripture recommends.

**** _{(Trying to condense and make it short)}

God is the Most Just, the Most Merciful.

Now some people might say that this is fairy tale, that it can’t happen “an angry man consulting his wife instead of reaching for his belt?” My advice is that you don’t listen to them. Don’t let them corrupt your mind with fat, white lies about Islam. Use your real-life examples i.e. your uncle and his wife and of course your parents. They are enlightened muslims who have read the Qur'an. Yet they live in harmony.

Ma’sallam

@dav _{& the learning student MrPataki}

1. All that is pure window dressing of a fraud! In reality, how many muslim men in Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia even Nigeria are bothering to stop and think through admonishing a wife or leaving the marital bed before beating her "lightly" for ill-conduct?

And in your own opinion and wisdom the Qur'an is to be blamed for the lack of men to follow it dictates. In the same manner, you'll also balme the bible cos it states that men should love their wives. A task that so difficult that women face life threatening situation everyday (some have said every 12secs) in the west to the extent that women consider murdering their husbands as the only way out! Back to your judge role, if some citizens or members of your group find it difficult to follow what's in the constitution, as the chief justice and elder stateman you will call for a constitutional review committee right? Common dav., I believe your smarter than this. I'm an uncurable optimist

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490:

Narrated ‘Aisha:

The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, “Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people).” I said, “You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away for I disliked to face him.”

Try and read between the lines before you lay accusations. According to your insinuation, She's a woman, compared to dog and ass that annul prayers, yet she was lying on d bed infront of her husband while he is praying. And whenever she needed something, she would slip away in other not to face him (i.e distract him)

The reason while she sliped away is in another hadith:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 9, Number 487 & 488:
I heard the Prophet saying, 'If anybody amongst you is praying behind something as a Sutra (more like a barrier) and somebody tries to pass in front of him, then he should repulse him and if he refuses, he should use force against him for he is a satan.

the word Somebody is use for man generally both male and female not women alone.

@babyosisi
Firstly, let me agree that it will be a revelation for me to find that the prophet (SAW) hit any woman. However, I have not seen any proov as yet to that effect! The hadith quoted is misinterpreted and even the answere lies within the passage! But first lets look at another similar hadith:

Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 4, Number 1787:

Ubayy b. Ka'b reported: I was in the mosque when a man entered and prayed and recited (the Qur'in) in a style to which I objected. Then another man entered (the mosque) and recited in a style different from that of his companion. When we had finished the prayer, we all went to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said to him: This man recited in a style to which I objected, and the other entered and recited in a style different from that of his companion. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) asked them to recite and so they recited, and the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) expressed approval of their affairs (their modes of recitation). and there occurred In my mind a sort of denial which did not occur even during the Days of Ignorance. When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) saw how I was affected (by a wrong idea), he struck my chest, whereupon I broke into sweating and felt as though I were looking at Allah with fear

The action is clearly done not for the purpose of punishing but to restore  the purity of his heart and mind. The same applies to Aisha: I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened.

A husband that didn't wake his wife just because he didn't want to frighten her will now all of a sudden punish her by stricking? Can you tell me does that make sense.

Some hadiths that says it all:
How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (i.e sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunnan Abu Dawud 11:2139)

Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah) Book 11, Number 2138:
Narrated Mu'awiyah ibn Haydah: I said: Apostle of Allah, how should we approach our wives and how should we leave them? He replied  Approach your tilth (not filth, pls check it) when or how you will,  give her (your wife) food when you take food, clothe when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, and do not beat her.

The mother herself i.e Aisha (ra) narrated: Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman."  [Recorded by Ibn Maajah. Al-Albaanee graded it Saheeh.]

It might interest you to know that one full chapter was reavelled in the Glorius Qur'an just for one woman complaining about the attitude of her husband. She kept on disputing with the Prophet (SAW) to wade into the affairs but he didn't until angel Jubril came with the revelation. The chapter is 58 titled "The Disputing Woman"

Now lets look at some interesting things that the bible says about women. Can my xtian brothers and sisters clearify these issues. they dont seen to be right. I stand to be corrected though. And pleeease look for better explanations apart from the usual "its the O.T":
"No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman, Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" (cos we ate the fruit in the garden, its her fault)
(Ecclesiasticus 25:19,24).

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I don't permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (I Timothy 2:11-14).

"The birth of a daughter is a loss" (Ecclesiasticus 22:3) as against "A man who educates his son will be the envy of his enemy." (Ecclesiasticus 30:3)

"Keep a headstrong daughter under firm control, or she will abuse any indulgence she receives. Keep a strict watch on her shameless eye, do not be surprised if she disgraces you" (Ecclesiasticus 26:10-11).

"When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening" (Lev. 15:19-23).

As against the practise of Mohammed (SAW):
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 9, Number 497:                                                 
Narrated Maimuna: The Prophet used to pray while I used to sleep beside him during my periods (menses) and in prostrations his garment used to touch me. And who says in Islam women annul prayers?


More to come,

@dav

davidylan:
What really do we believe in Islam? Is the hadith a much stronger evidence ONLY when the verse in the quran does not make sense? When the quran does not add up, you say to follow the hadith! When the hadith makes no sense, someone pops up to call it a weak hadith!
If mohammed did not hit his wives, why then do we have him recieving such "revelation" from allah?

In Islam, the Qur'an by default is the book to give priority. Everything you do must be in line with the Qur'an. The Hadith comes in when we try to see how the Prophet executed what's in the Qur'an. Like I said earlier, there are 5 categories of Dos and Don't in Islam. Compulsary ones like establishing 5 regular prayers. But its the hadith that tells us how many rakats (i.e bowing and raising up) each of those prayer times. Another compulsory type is Zakat, HAjj etc which we're obliged to perform and details can be found in the hadith. In this case, the verse is not the compulsry type so, like I said it comes down to the individual. That's why the hadith comes in to show us how the prophet practised it when he was here.

davidylan:
2. How can the men in Afghanistan be in "clear violation" of the quran that admonishes then to beat their wives "lightly", dress her up as a prisoner and use and dump her as a mere sexual tool? Do you have a special copy of the quran that we don't know about?

If you were made a jugde and the law says there are three actions to be taken in a situation, but action 2 cannot be taken unless all measures to ensure the success of action 1 fails and similaly, action 3 cannot be taken unless all measures to ensure the success of action 2 fails. Then someone just jumped straight to action 3 and completely disregards action 1 and 2. Would you say this person has not violated the law? Expecially when the boundry of that action 3 was clearly excessed. Read the verse again and tell me they were justified by the Qur'an based on your own sincere jugdment and understanding.

And which part of the Qur'an say you should use and dump your wife like a sex tool?

Sallam alykum
I have never hit my woman too. The worst I've done is to shout. And that's just being honest. I remembered the 1st time I did that (i.e shout), how she showed remourse and appologised for what she did wrong. I was happy and I thank God not because I won the case but because she showed remourse almost instantly and life continued happily ever since. Last night I too did something wrong and I also appologised, I have not even seen your response then. Pls, don't get me wrong, I was not trying to justify battery. I qouted the hadith to prove that if we muslims have to follow our leader, then we wouldn't hit our women as he (Mohammed) did not hit her even when he  was very angry. That should be obvious from the hadith.

mukina2:
some men are just plain violent . .Muslim or Christians . .

That is exactly my point when I said the verse is of the ‘Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed type and that it Boils down to the individual. However, you'll agree with me that the verse stands even if we don't seem to like it. Its survived the last 1400yrs and Insha Allah, it will survive the next, and the next,

@dav
Just one more point before i throw up over your entry, what of the men in afghanistan and other muslim nations? do you sincerely think that in a fit of anger you will remember to go and pick your toothbrush to beat the poor woman? Stop decieving yourself dear! [/color]

And you too think like a man. Why should it be that the first thing that comes to your mind is to beat her up when she offends you? The men in Afghanistan and others countries who do this are in clear violation of what the Qur'an says. Why did you mis out the part where[b] I said Seems like the picture on peoples' head is that of a brutal husband excersing his authority on the slightest mistake the woman makes,   The admonish part is not a one/two day thing. Its supposed to be for some time and the abstain part should only be tried if admonishing (which can take several forms) fails.[/b]

@babyosisi
[color=#990000]This entire Ayeh does not make sense and states that women are dirty for a natural occurrence. Menstruation is part of the female anatomy. This is an important function for women to bear children. How can such a natural event be dirty?  Muslims like other religions believe that God created men and women. Therefore, why should God tell his prophet Muhammad that men should avoid women during their menstruation period? Why would anyone consider their own creation bad and dirty? Even humans do not do that. God told Muhammad that his own creation, women are filthy and most be avoided seven to ten days a month during a good portion of their life. Frankly, I don’t understand what does women’s menstruation have to do with the last sentence “surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.” Does this mean that God loves women who clean themselves or men that go into women after they are cleaned? It is not clear.


I refuse to call you names, but seems like you want your husbands to have sex with you while you're menstruating. You're comming dangerously close to the definiton of a PIG.

to gists what do you mean by the picture does not look like a muslim,how do muslims look. That is an insult to muslim women,how are they expected to look?face down in a ninja outfit? What gives you the right to speak for women and determine how they should look? who do you think you are?

My woman (just like many other well dressed muslim women) doesn't look facedown and not like a ninja, yet everybody calls her Alhaja even though she has never been to hajj. We know our women when we see them.

@Havila
I don't demand/need any form respect from anybody. If saying what the Qur'an say is my crime SO BE IT!!

trini_girl:
Topic already covered

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-13362.64.html

Thankx

Can't keep up with these threads

The two holy books I've read says Jesus is GOD's word:

She _{(i.e Mary)} said, 'Lord! how can I have a son, when man has not yet touched me?' He _{(the angel)} said, 'Thus God creates what He pleaseth. When He decrees a matter He only says BE _{(i.e the word BE)} and it is
Q3:47

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father
John 1:14

The God I'm talking about is the one that asks us to abstain from adultry. I've not read the full novel, but the film seems to suggest that Da Vinci codes says Jesus married Mary Magdalene, and that they even had a daughter whose linage is still in europe.

Now, their's no record in the two holy books I've read that suggests Jesus legally married Mary Magdalene. If they truly had a child, that to me will translate to adultry. It will mean GOD's word contradicts itself. But we all know that's completely false!.

Can anybody enlighten me on this code thing, what's the fuss all about? Any reason why I should believe the code?

mukina2:
no one will ever hit me . . . .get that into your brain . .we are not all gullible ok?
La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!
its not all muslim men tat beat up their wives . .
its not only muslims that beat up their wives
some men are just violent
thunder fire your keyboard for sayin tat to me

La ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadur Rasulullah!

@mukina2 (_{anybody that cares to read})

Sallam alykum,
Insha Allah no one will ever hit you. But that will only be guaranteed if you marry a muslim (just in case you're not married). Even if you did something wrong, you husband will be guided by the Qur'an as to how to deal with the situation. If in the most unlikely event that it get to the popular beating part, he will not touch your face, abdomen, head or any sensitive part of your body _{(that leaves just your palm/arm and legs)}. Guess what, he will only beat you with a miswak meaning tooth-cleaning stick or at best a toothbrush cos the prophet was once angery and said: 'If it were not for the fear of retaliation on the Day of Resurrection, I would have beaten you with this miswak (tooth-cleaning stick)' [as reported by Ibn Majah and by Ibn Hibban, in his Sahih] _{(but pls don't take advantage of it)}

Another point to know is that generally speaking, Islam has five categories of Do’s and Don’ts:

‘Fard’ i.e. compulsory or obligatory; ‘Mustahab’ i.e. recommended or encouraged; ‘Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed; ‘Makruh’ i.e. not recommended or discouraged; ‘Haraam’ i.e. prohibited or forbidden

This verse of the ‘Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed type. He is not compled or obliged to go all the way. Boils down to human nature. The pictures shown above are clearly not in correlation with the practises of the prophet nor does the woman in question looks anything like a muslim.

One more thing, why would anyone beat with a toothbrush? Seems like the picture on peoples' head is that of a brutal husband excersing his authority on the slightest mistake the woman makes. The purpose is to give the woman an emotional punishment rather than physical punishment. That's why the sequence is admonish, abstain then beat. The abstain part should explain my point. The admonish part is not a one/two day thing. Its supposed to be for some time and the abstain part should only be tried if admonishing (which can take several forms) fails.

For more explanation look for the book "The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam" by Al-Qaradawi, Yusuf

Ma Sallam

@dav
I asked for your point. You refused to respond. I don't want to think your are pointless. But to answere your question, the society in which the couple leaves determines what ill-conducts are.

@babyosisi
Pls don't be deceived, its very easy for men to say they'll never touch their wife. But in reality they turn the poor women into punching bags. Check this out:

The courts in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, United Kingdom, and United States have accepted the extensive and growing body of research showing that battered partners can use force to defend themselves and sometimes kill their abusers because of the abusive and sometimes life-threatening situation in which they find themselves, acting in the firm belief that there is no other way than to kill for self-preservation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battered_woman_defence

May I ask, which of those countries mensioned above is an Islamic state? Yet women face life-threatening situation everyday _{even in the US that you've so much glorified.} I'm positive that you're wise enough to know who is pretending.

Peace.

davidylan:
thanks gists for that woeful attempt at embelishing a quranic anomaly!

1. who determines what is termed as ill-conduct?

What's your point?

Gentle men & Ladies,

Babs has not said any wrong or bad! He quoted the Qur'an correctly. He probably just didn't explain it sweetly enough to meet your fantasy. Let me giv it try mabe I can appeal to your sense.

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore, the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish t[/b]hem (first), (next), [b]refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things."
An-Nisaa 34-35

Let's put away mischief, what is wrong in that verse? Why hammering on just one part, why not take a global look at it. The only problem with you guys/ladies is the beat them slightly part- right? But lets look at another verse to see if this is a rule in the Qur'an

"… consort with your wives in a goodly manner, for if you dislike them, it may well be that you dislike something which God might yet make a source of abundant good."  Q4:19

And one of His signs is that He created mates for you from yourselves  that you may find rest in them, and He put between you love and compassion; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect." (Ar-Rum 30: 21)

But we muslims are supposed to emulate Mohammed, its just makes sense to learn how he treted his wives

Generally, the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure (the beating part). He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives.

In one Hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

But the verse still stands cos in some instances it might just be helpful. Thank God Mohammed realised the possibility of the abuse of this verse as he described intesity of the beating part as "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that the face must be avoided.

How does this resemble the description you've mensioned above?

Genial:
I have a question for babs787 and indeed anyone who cares to answer.

What happens if a husband disrespects his wife and he refuses to change. Will the wife continue to love him despite his unrepentant attitude?

The part in red fonts above is what the woman can do if admonishing fails to yield results. She should also try to confort him to the best of her ability just like men were commanded in Q4:19 as quoted above to save the marriage.

@shahan
In Islam, woman are not animals or synonimous to animals as you earlier quoted. The hadiths you quoted is talking about what are the likely things that can distract a men when praying. Muslims don't close their eyes when they pray. Hence a beautiful woman passing bye can distract a man when his heart should be 100% towards GOD.

Hello shahan,
Thanx 4 ur bit-by-bit response.

shahan:
The fact that Muhammad married a child says it all - he qualified himself as a pedophile. Would you marry your 6 y.o. daughter (if you had one) to a man over 40?

This is the yr 2007 and I will not marry my 6yr old daughter off (just like any sensible person in my culture in this age). But if I had d privilege to live during d time of Mohammed (SAW) YES I WOULD HAVE MARRIED HER OFF!!.  I wonder why people compare & judge d lifestyle of over 1400 yrs ago with current trends? At that time it was perfectly normal for a girl of that age to be married off. It is even said that the girl in question had earlier been engaged to a man before, but her parents dissolved the it on the grounds that the man was an unbeliever. The girl's mother personally handed her over to Mohammed. So you see, it was normal at that time and even you would have married your daughter off had you lived at that time.

shahan:
Muhammad violated the rights of the child by not seeking her consent. Later, when suitors came for his own daughter Fatima, the prophet played religious politics by settling matters on her own consent rather than on how he 'snatched' Aisha from her parents.

Pls do yourself a favour, stop sounding like a narrow minded, narrow thinking person. How do you expect a six year old who lived 1400yrs ago to give her consent on this issue. Even by today’s standard, she way to young to take that kind of decision. In many parts of the world today, people below 15yrs are considered children and their parent are responsible for them. In this country -Nigeria, the boundry between childhood and adulthood is 18yrs. In fact, even adults well into their 20s, 30s and beyond still don’t have full autonomy as to who they marry. Go to the south-eastern part of Nigeria and you hear a man/woman cannot marry from certain tribes even if he or she has found true love from the tribe.

Did you know that Mary (i.e Jesus's mom) between age 13 and 14 was married to Joseph (aged 90) and that she had already conceived Jesus (ASW) by then? By today's standard she'll be seen as a minor.

"The text is framed as an explanation by Jesus on the Mount of Olives as to the life of Joseph, his step-father. Agreeing with Mary's continued virginity, the text proclaims that Joseph had four sons (Judas, Justus, James, and Simon) and two daughters (Assia and Lydia) by a previous marriage. At age 90, after the death of his first wife, Joseph married the twelve year old Mary."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Joseph_the_Carpenter

From a Catholic source:
“Not long after this revelation, Joseph concluded the ritual marriage contract with Mary. The Gospel simply says: "Joseph rising up from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife" (Matthew 1:24). While it is certain that between the betrothal and the marriage at least three months must have elapsed, during which Mary stayed with Elizabeth, it is impossible to determine the exact length of time between the two ceremonies. We do not know how long after the betrothal the angel announced to Mary the mystery of the Incarnation, nor do we know how long the doubt of Joseph lasted _{(Mary got pregnant so he was doubtful),} before he was enlightened by the visit of the angel. From the age at which Hebrew maidens became marriageable, it is possible that Mary gave birth to her Son when she was about thirteen or fourteen years of age _{(subtract nine months to know when she conceived)}. No historical document tells us how old she actually was at the time of the Nativity.”
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

Let me ask you the same question you asked me, would you marry your 12yr old daughter off? Today my guess is NO. Before you accuse God of being a pedophilia (i.e for getting Mary pregnant at a seemingly tender age by our standard) and of course the 90yr old Joseph, pls bear in mind that at that time it was perfectly normal. Some catholic authorities has it that girls were considered marriageable at age 12yrs and 6months. (Pls note that the Catholics practically worship Mary, their's no reason why they should come up with such lies).

"Jewish maidens were considered marriageable at the age of twelve years and six months, though the actual age of the bride varied with circumstances. The marriage was preceded by the betrothal, after which the bride legally belonged to the bridegroom, though she did not live with him till about a year later, when the marriage used to be celebrated."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

"Then the high priest publicly announced that the virgins who were publicly settled in the temple, and had reached this time of life, should return home and get married, according to the custom of the nation and the ripeness of their years. The others readily obeyed this command; but Mary alone, the virgin of the Lord, answered that she could not do this, saying both that her parents had devoted her to the service of the Lord, and that, moreover, she herself had made to the Lord a vow of virginity, which she would never violate by any intercourse with man"
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0849.htm

shahan:
But when you go through the Qur'an, you find that Islam is disguised polytheism calling the worship of innocent and sincere muslims to pagan gods (plural). I've highlighted several such texts in other threads.

Sorry, I can’t keep up with the threads, I’m too busy. Pls do me a favour, kindly repost.

shahan:
The people that turned away from Islam. They never raised swords first against Muhammad; their crime was simply that they saw that he was not a prophet of the true God.

Again do me and other muslims d favour of mentioning concrete examples of these innocent people from good and respectable authorities. Or is that Mohammed devoured all evidence that you can't produce any _{(or they're too many you can't even think of one)}?

shahan:
Yes, and it's the same Bible the *allah* of the Qur'an claims to have sent down, revealed, and confirmed! Tip: Christianity is not Judaism. If you want to repost claims that true Christians are as bloodthirsty as Muhammad, please adduce texts in the New Testament that enjoins Christians to kill in order to establish our Christianity. I don't find Jesus Christ exemplified by Muhammad's atrocities.

I stand to be corrected, I believe the bible is a collection of books, i.e holy books. That’s what its supposed to be before some letters found their way in. That’s why the whole bible is not the same books the Quran said.

I’ve been neglecting and ignoring this OT-NT dichotomy many chritians have been creating. It just sickens me. Why create the divide? Especially when Jesus himself did not! He was clear-cut in his mission "Think not that I _(Jesus)have come to abolish the law _(OT)and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” That’s in Matthew 5:17 to 19

Beside, even your current leaders i.e pastors still preach with the so called OT. If the OT doesn’t apply to today’s xtians why preach with it? If it doesn’t apply, expunge it! But I think it applies, so it must stay!! Anyway, if you want NT verses that support the OT seemingly archaic laws, for a start try out Romans 1:32 ( I believe it was written by Paul, a NT veteran). I’ll suggest you start from 20 so you don’t run the risk of quoting the bible out-of-contest.

shahan:
The dogma he came to "restore" was well being practised before him by his own people; and that dogma was polytheism. Only difference was that Muhammad refined his own. However, this "restoration" did not annul the polytheistic elements in the Qur'an that clearly reveal that their are many "creators" and "gods" in Islam.

We know that already - only need to add that he sustained both still with the sword.

Examples pls—concrete ones

Sorry folks dis a little off topic, I just cant read while my leader is being falsely accused.

babyosisi:
babs you are yet to answer shahans question,stop dodging. By the way Muhammad was a pedophilic,murderous,thieving womanizer.

@babyosisi

First 2 ur false accusation of our beloved prophet (pbuh) of being a pedophilia. I stand to be corrected, my guess is that u brand him that title for his marriage with Aisha, the six year old girl (some hadith has it that she was sixteen and consumation came at nineteen, but lets stick to the one u'r interesting i.e six & consumation at nine). Honestly, (not because I'm a muslim) I don't see how Muhammed qualifies for that title!!! It is said that people suffering from that disorder in many cases are unable to control their sexual urge. If consumation didn't occur until three years after the marriage how then can you call him a pedophilic? Another thing u should have in mind is that he was legally married to her with the concent of both parent of the girl in question.

The DSM-IV (American Psychiatric Association, 1994) defines pedophilia in terms of recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children, and requires that the fantasies, urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/library/special_problems12.htm


Muhammed was far successful by any standard, a sharp contradiction to the common traits of many with such sextual disorder. The following is an excerpt from a rational non muslim author:

Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about AD. 570 into an Arabian tube that worshipped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five his employer, recognizing his meet, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her _{(pedophilics dont marry women 15 years older than them)} and as long as she lived remained a devoted husband. Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God's word, sensing his own inadequacy But the angel commanded Read'. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God." In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumors of God's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced,' An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being." At Muhammads own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches
in religious history: 'If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever'.
James A. Michene
"Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,"
Reader's Digest (Amencan ea.) May 1955, pp. 68-70.


Next 2 ur accusation of a murderer. I presume u r trying 2 say Islam was spread by d sword. I'v tried to xplain in some threads the quranic quotes anti-islamist like u use 2 paint us black. Just 2 ask u a simple question, which group of pple did Muhammed fight dt did not first raised sword against him? In mordern day language his actions will be seen as self defence. Malasia and Indonisia are two largely muslim populated countries. Which muslim/Islamic army ever stepped its foot on those countries?

Pls dont let us start all over again on this thread as it will be off post. In any case their are far many more attrocities in the bible. I think its better we don't dig


In ur opinon Muhammed was a thriving womanizer!! Well at least he legally married all of his wife and no 300 concubines. He didn't need to scheme the death of any woman's husband just to sleep with her. Examples are abound in d bible, let's not dig


If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modem history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislation, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then-inhabited world; and more than that he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls,  His forbearance in victory, his ambition which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire, his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold: the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with the words. Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human
greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?
- Lamartine
Histoire de la Turquie, Pans 1854, Vol. 11, pp. 276-77.

babs787:
[b]

Then for him to have cursed a fig tree (having forgotten that it wasn’t time to bear fruit) in
Mark 11v13-14: andc seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he (jesus) might find anything thereon, and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, FOR THE TIME OF FIGS WAS NOT YET. And jesus answered and said unto it, NOMAN EAT FRUIT OF THEE HEREAFTER FOREVER. And his disciples heard it.

Mark 1v4: john did baptism in the wilderness and preach baptism of repentance for the remission of sin

WHY DID HE TOOK BAPTISM IF HE WAS SINLESS?

4. if jesus is sinless, how come the verse that he who that is born of a woman cannot be clean (roman 3 v10) : how then can man be righteous, no not one, two, everyone as long as he remain someone born of a woman, he is perpetually under irredeemable sin.

Sallam Babs

Just to warn u 2 thread carefully & watch what you say about Jesus (ASW). Don't get dragged into blasphemy -especially on a personality like Jesus- just to proove your point. I don't know if Jesus was sinful sinless (God is the only one that can say that with certainty) but I do know that to every rule their is an exception. Thus Jesus might be exempted from roman 3 v10 (_{is the book of romans part of the original injel or later addition culminating to the bible?}). Remeber he wasn't born like the rest of us.

May God guide us all amin

Does any body knows how companies react to online Masters degree. Do they accept its credibility?

babyosisi:
Again to you babs,the former church goer,you never read these abi.
How the Scriptures say real men should treat their wives,bearded or unbearded.

note the highlighted area,one man one wife so stop the childish questions already.

Eph 5:33   However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Hi all, just passing bye. I completely agree that any sensible man should truly love his wife as his body (_{did d Quran says hate ur wife?} ) What happens if the wife does not respect her husband like we have right now in the world?

This fact is in many cases, responsible for men (both muslims and christians) taking on a second wife. Its so bad in some situations that the man arrive home very late and leave for the office when most people are still in bed just to avoid the trouble at home.

Hello all,

Does anyone knows how long it take for investors to get their share certificates if one buys an IPO e.g the recently concluded DSR and the ongoing Transcorp.

I ask this question cos I've read in some newspapers where some investors complain of not getting their share certificates months after the IPO is over. Which means u can't sell if u intend hold for short term.

What's the typical time frame?

Regards

For some reasons, my instint tells me to go for this transcorp deal even against all the alleged red flags. I've come to trust and rely on my instint over the years as it had most of the time been right.

However, I'm going to play it safe all-the-same. I shall sell some non-performing stocks in my potfolio and go for transcorp. Even if Iyke-D and other pro transcorp guys are wrong, I wouldn't be hurt cos the fund has been idle in non-performing equities for some time anyway. But just in case the pro transcorp guys are correct, then I would hav moved my money  into a perfoming stock thereby increasing the overall value of my portfolio.

Maybe you guys should consider this approach

_{Waiting till May 29 might be expensive. It took less than one month for May & Baker to double in price after the public offer!!}

Flintz:
WAPCO, NB and DBL?? For what reasons OSHKOSH??

As far as i am concerned, WAPCO is kind of overpriced. And i think investors in 2007 should really make use of ther PE index to guide their investment decisions in terms of appropriate price.

And like i think i mentioned earlier in my last post, Diamond Bank has one of the lowest PE's in its sector and thus makes a good buy tomorrow.

I aint a good follower of the breweries sector so i can't really say much about NB.

Flint,

If the PE ratio is ur only index tru which u concluded dt some stocks are over & under priced, I'll suggest u stay away from stocks. What abt earnings/share as compared to the corresponding quater of the previous year, is it high or lower? (take into account scrpit/bonus issues) how abt market share, is d coy's market share increasing or declining?, U shld also consider institutional investors, wot stocks are they buying/selling (u can get a glimps from d daily volume).

I bliv a coy's PE ratio is not enof to justify buying/selling decisions of any stock. If a coy's PE ratio is high, their is probably a reason 4 it.

Sorry for responding late, the year is running to an end and I need to tidy up my work b4 we close.

@gbade. x
"Why do YOU say terrorism is NOT a muslim problem?"[/color]

cos Islam teaches muslims to let peace reign! Here are some verses which usually escape the critics of Islam &terrorists:

== if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people==   5:32

But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace==  8:61

Let there be no compulsion in religion==  2:256

Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves and let (false) hope amuse them. soon will knowledge (undeceive them) i.e knowledge will soon come to them  15:3

Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it)==   18:29

@dayokanu
"[color=#990000]The moslems are enjoined never to be friends with a non muslem a kaffir"
It is in your own interest to keep good company all the time. We have a saying in Yoruba that a sheep that follows a dog will eat feces! Why would you want to be too intimately close to someone that has the capability to influence you (or your actions) into doing things against your faith?

"why do we have large mosques in all Christian countries even in the Vatican and Moslems allowed to practise their religion without harrasment and even cover their head and dress according to their religion but Churches and Xtians are not allowed in moslem countries. Who is more tolerant?"

I wish I could answere this question!! All I can say is that it depends on which side of the divide you are. Are the muslims the only one one who are intolerants? The world didn't really hear of much of the millions of muslims that were murdered by the Serbs (orthodox christians) in the then Yugoslavia. A lot of people thinks the US is a christian country (I think its more of a circular nation), but no  oneis willing to associate the killings of the natives American people to christianity) The native were literally "Wiped Out".

France, another percieved christian nation almost brought Algeria to its knee; France again (a nation many people see as the founder of "Freedom"
"The proposed French law banning Islamic headscarves and other visible religious symbols in state schools would violate the rights to freedom of religion and expression" source: Human Right Watch

Nazis (German roman Catholic) against the Jews


@HAVILA
when you finish backslapping each other, rationalise or explain Sura 9:5, as well as Sura 9:29 in the context.[/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000]
To fully understand Q9:5, one has to start from verse one:
1: Freedom from all obligations is declared from GOD and HIS  Messanger to the polytheists, idolator etc with whom you have made a TREATY
2:so travel FREELY as you will idolators, polytheists etc for FOUR months THROUGHOUT THE LAND,
3:And a declaration frm GOD & His Messanger to mankind on d greatest day that GOD is free from all obligations to the idolators, polytheists etc and so is His  Messanger. SO  IF U REPENT (i.e idolators polytheists etc) it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know you cannot escape from the punishment of GOD
4:Except those of the idolators, polytheists with whom you made TREATY, AND WHO HAVE NOT SUBSIQUENTLY FAILED you in aught, nor HAVE SUPPORTED ANYONE AGAINST YOU. So fulfil their treaty to them for the end of their term
5:Then when the sacred months of Islamic calender have passed, then KILL THE IDOLATORS, POLYTHEISTS WHEREEVER YOU FIND THEM, & CAPTURE THEM AND BESIEGE THEM & LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EACH AND EVERY AMBUSH. BUT IF THEY REPENT & perform As-salat, & give zakat, then FREE their way.
6:And if anyone of the idolators seek your protection, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of God and ESCORT him to where he can be secured, that is because they are men who know not

So you see the Qur'an gives a clear-cut profile of those that are to be targetted. 1: (S)He must have signed a No-war TREATY;2:The person must have violated the treaty and given a grace period of FOUR MONTHS (during which he moves FREELY violtating the treaty) to REPENT. 3: The individual must have failed to repent even after a grace of four months. 4:After all these, the individual must have SUPPORTED ANYONE AGAINST THE MUSLIMS. Then the clamp-down of verse 5 can be applied. Even at the heat of the clamp-down the grace is still availble to any of them to seek protection (an unprecedented high level magnanimity)

I don't think we have anything close to these as to justify the claim of Al-Qaida.

Before I explain verse Q9:29, it is very important to note the key words used by God: IDOLATORS[b], POLYTHEISTS, KILL, AMBUSH, STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS (47:4)[/b] etc.

God is very clear when HE intends to pass death sentence on a group of people. Just like he did when HE KILLED all 1st borns in Eygpt when Pharao refused to let the children of Israel go. He did the same in some verses of the bible (don't be suprised!):


1 Samuel 15:1-4

1. Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD
2. Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3. Now go and SMITE Amalek, and UTTERLY DESTROY all that they have, and SPARE THEM NOT; BUT SLAY BOTH MAN AND WOMAN, INFANT AND SUCKLING, OX AND SHEEP, CAMEL AND ASS
4. And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah

Numbers 31:17,18
17 Now therefore KILL EVERY MALE among the little ones, and KILL EVERY WOMAN that hath known man by lying with him.
18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Having that in mind, let's read Q9:29
Fight (_{not Kill}) against those who (i) beleive not in Allah, (ii)Not in the Last Day, (iii) Nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah & His Messenger,  among the people of the scriptures (i.e Jews and Christians), UNTIL THEY PAY THE JIZYAH (i.e. the tax levied on those living under the protection of Islamic state) with willing submission & feel themselves subdued.

This looks more of economic struggle rather full military confrontation (notice that the clear-cut key words used when death sentences are passed are obviously missen). We're all here Fighting for what we bliv in but not a pinhead of blood has been shed so far. The people of the South-South Nigeria are still fighting for resource control and revenue alocation formula.

As for the paper, I didn't expect anyone to just jump to conclusion based on the preface and conlusion I quoted. I expect everyone to at least visit the site with open minds (which obviously you didn't from your response). The point is not who started the 1948 war (The paper looked even beyond your recommended 1200BC), but continued injustice being done on the people. And I also expect people to visit websites of similar jewish organisations as adviced in the paper.

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

http://www.nimn.org/ (Palestinians forced to scavenge for food on rubbish dumps, IDF commander: We fired more than a million cluster bombs in Lebanon )

http://www.jewishpeacefellowship.org/

N.B Publish books are good references (cos websites can be closed) only when your reader can get them. In Nigeria where libraries are a ghost halls, it will not suprise me to find out that no one has been able to check your claims

There's a thin line between defending what you think is right and Blaspheming. You'll never know when you cross it. The last thing I want to do is qoute the bible "out-of-context". Thus, can somebody clear the air on the above bible verses?

belloti:
That was a great gist. We very much welcome your contribution brother.

Asallam Alykum Belloti. I must really commend you, mukina2 and Bro Olabowale (and even nilla for standing up for what she believes without getting bullied) for adequately defending Islam. You guys did a great job. May God continue to increase you in wisdom and knowledge (Amin)

engyn1105:
My products are in a very affordable price,depends on the time (

Duration ) and the wattage u want i to be,

But you did not say anything on the duration of each confgn (give the lowest back-up time for each). and the number of batteries required and the supply input voltage range. Considering the fact that in many occasions we have low voltages (as low as 150V or less!!). In this case will these UPSes supply from the battery of it will try to stabilize the low voltage?

@davidylan (can I call you dav?)
"i quite understand your inability to point to any valid demonstration of terrorism outside Islamic inspired violence, but to go down more than 4000 years ago to dredge up an alleged act of terrorism is ludicrous!"

I expect you to figure it out that the idea was to go as far back in time as possible to show acts of terrorism even before the advent of christianity let alone islam. If you think its ridiculous, well you're entitled to your opinion

"Here you are only being mischievous or downright decietful!"
Dav, thank you for quoting the Qur'an correctly (God bless for doing that). Actually, here's another one you missed out:
Q8:15 "O ye who believe! When you meet those who disblieve, in a battlefield, never turn your back on them." (in other words confront them in the battlefield and fight)

If you look at 47:4 which you quoted  above very well, it says "IN FIGHT". The one I just helped you with says "IN A BATTLEFIELD". Now tell me, were the victims of 911; July-7 and Madrid train in fight when their lives were cut short? Nope. Since when did the WTC, London and Madrid trains became battlefields? In other words they did not act in accordance with the Holy Qur'an! So how does that verses apply to them? Do you now see that I'm not being mischievous? I maintain my position & not being decietful, about my reservation for calling them muslims.

"Yes we are all well aware of the fact that northern muslims refer to southern muslims as Kaffirs!"
I don't know you have such powers to read the minds of the Northerners as to what they think of the southern muslim victims. We all know dav, that it was politically motivated and not cos they think southerners are kafirs (unbelievers). It is known that the northerners are big consumers of alcohol in Nigeria (a substance clearly prohibited in Islam and Qur'an). Why don't they go on killing their own brothers who take alcohol if they truly want to get rid of kafirs (afterall Islam teaches us to do justice even if it directly affects your brother!). And again you have failed to recognise the repraisal attacks by the christiians in the south (sorry, I guess they were just reacting and not biblically inspired-which is true. But like Havila said above "I agree that terrorim is terrorism once the act fulfils the standard 'definition' as displayed, regardless of who carries it out".

The question is why did the Qur'an ask them to fight even when they "disliked" it? Truth is they would have died if they didn't fight!!I wonder why they didn't like it- their lives was at stake! A very brief summery: The first batlle took place in Badr very close to Meddina. They were persecuted and murdered in Mecca so they fled to Meddina. The reason for their persecution was just because they proclaimed that God is one. Just because they refused to and also persuaded the Meccan pegans to stop worshipping idols and serve the true God, etc. They could not even make calls to prayer in public let alone praying in public! When the persecusion became unbearable they left their hometown Mecca and headed for Meddina (a town with a sizable population of christians and jews, why didn't they fight their hosts?). However, they were soon to be pursued again from the very people whom they have fled to avoid conflict. Then those verses you quoted came to them to put up a fight for themselves (it was obvoius that if they had't, they'll keep running and it was just a matter of time before they got cornered by their enemies).

"Just in case you are also down a memory hole, let me remind you of the "innocent" acts of your fellow muslim brethren!"
Like I said I agree with Havila: terrorism is terrorism. The victims you listed didn't deserve to die neigther did the ones I earlier listed. We both can go on and on listing cases, but the effort will be futile. Trying to exonerate Israel from terror acts is completely unjust to say the least. I came across some Israeli organisations some thime ago, whom themselves accepts the fact that their nation was built on terror acts (ask yourself why would a Jewish group accept such a guilt in favour of Palestine? B'cos its the truth) One of such organisation goes by the name jews for Justice in the Middle East. They even published a paper titled "The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict". The preface goes thus:

"As the periodic bloodshed continues in the Middle East, the search for an equitable solution must come to grips with the root cause of the conflict. The conventional wisdom is that, even if both sides are at fault, the Palestinians are irrational "terrorists" who have no point of view worth listening to. Our position, however, is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel. And all subsequent crimes - on both sides - inevitably follow from this original injustice."
http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html

Their conclusion:
"As we have seen, the root cause of the Palestine-Israel conflict is clear. During the 1948 war, 750,000 Palestinians fled in terror or were actively expelled from their ancestral homeland and turned into refugees. The state of Israel then refused to allow them to return and either destroyed their villages entirely or expropriated their land, orchards, houses, businesses and personal possessions for the use of the Jewish population. This was the birth of the state of Israel.

We know it is hard to accept emotionally, but in this case the Jewish people are in the wrong.We took most of Palestine by force from the Arabs and blamed the victims for resisting their dispossession,  "
http://www.cactus48.com/conclusionI.html


@Havila,
That was very intelligent of you to have noticed my path of reasoning was political. Actually, I tot of not taking that path, but then I asked myself can you really separate religion from politics? We're also on the same side when you said "I agree that terrorim is terrorism once the act fulfils the standard 'definition' as displayed, regardless of who carries it out"

O.k the "series" of crusades where political and so christianity cannot be held accountable -agreed at least for the sake of this debate. How then can you hold Islam accountable just because Hamas, Hezbollah perform terrorist act against israel (in retaliation, see my response to dav's comments above) on issues of West bank, Gaza, Shaba farm etc. You'll agree with me that all these are also political so the blame should not rest on Islam.

Sorry people. Somehow I missed out the weblink to the King David Hotel bombing in 1946 and the Zionist still celebrating of their achievement (60 years after). The picture of the debris of the building is shown by the right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_Bombing

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2277717,00.html