₦airaland Forum

uplawal:
@godsun,av you answered the differences in the JESUS of mattew and JESUS of LUKE?SHIOR

#
i will answer as soon as you answer just one ofmy own questions,

why are the islamic women treated like slaves rather than partners,or are men and women not equal?
note;i dont mean muslim woman like you who still wear jeans trousers and tm shirt without hijab o

babs787:
@godson2009

I did not agree but your post is all ruse. I dont believe in story telling but facts.When you are to discuss with me, provide your facts and we set the ball rolling.

simple,did mohammad not plagiarise the bible by hijacking the biblical prophets including jesus?
did he not say his mother aminat too had similar experience as mary mother of jesus?
u want more?

uplawal:
KEEP GULKING IT,i attended more than you did,redeem,mountain of fire,WEBIC,and others,and for your info,thats not the only reason i stopped being xtian, i stopped cos XTIANITY is IDOLATORY,period,and for me to say this i know what am saying exactly

lol u see proof that you are not a proper born again christian?if not,what are you looking for in more than one church, go and ask any male or female sampling churches are called ashawo, im sure u heard tha old tony 1 week song

is christianity idol worship or islam?

i dont bow down for a kaaba i.e idol
neither do i have to bow down in the direction of any country
i dont worship the moon and stars like you muslims do, or how do u know when to start fastn e.t.c what is the difference between that and a babalawo waiting for a sign from the gods,


we dont have the sign of sun an moon on our churches,our sign is a white dove finish re think ur decision o becaus i want to see u in paradise wat was ur christian name

you see,the man said muslims are arrogant and violent,and you are shouting at him calm down u muslim ppl,see what them olabowale has turned my christian sister to oo,im sure u were gentle when we were formerly sister and brother

uplawal:
@sungod, who told you i dnt search well before going into the ONE&ONLY TRUE RELIGION?if not i would av been regreting,but cos i dnt accept it cos of man thats why i can say boldly that my soul is sold totally for ALLAH and he is SUFFICIENT for me

simply because your experience of christianity which you have posted have shown you are a normal sunday sunday christian not born again and broken
besides all the reasons you have given on here for converting to islam,are neither valid nor stand up to any form of scruitny, you said the church you attended ppl sleep with each other, and concluded that christians are sinners, can you vouch for every mosque in london that they dont have suicide bombers?
one and only true religion,you must mean christianity,forgot to tell you sef will you like to go for a 3 days annoining programme in redeemed in london?you will enjoy it

babs787:
@Godson2009
Ok sir. Let us read on.
Your proof/facts on the emboldened words please.
Sorry, I dont have time for storing telling but would appreciate facts from you before we proceed.
Please sir, kindly do a re-poste because of me. I am reading through and would like to read where he commanded killing of Polytheists, christians, jews etc

i have posted these verses severally,bearing in mind that i dont get my facts from the internet which would have been easy to copy and paste,but in textbooks and a few in the quran, you dont expect me to spend a considerable part of my saturday for your own reading pleasure poring over books do you?
if you are interested in reading then go through my posts,or look at the religion section where you will find my comments with the relevant verse you have asked for,i dont indulge people who are too mentally lazy,if you have not come across the quranic verse which has abrogated the defensive jihad,where mohammad enjoins his followers to behead and cut off the fingertips of polytheists,jews,christians,then im not sure you are a real muslim,or you are a young convert in which case you need to sit at the feet of olabowale for  a couple of weeks,as i dont sponnn feed ppl info

babs787:
@Godson2009Far from that, Allah does not make mistakes. Are you referring to the bible verses where God created man and later said he regretted doing same?
Better still , are you referring to verses where Jesus changed words in OT?I really want to learn from you sir

no,i am not reffering to the bible verses,i am reffering to the quranic verses where mohammad abrogated his own words conserning jihad,he said his followers should only fight when they were attacked bla bla,he later abroagted all the fomer verses including the famous one modernist islamic scholars try to use "no compulsion in islam" and enjoined his followers to fight,and behead all non-muslims,this happened just after his first raiding expedition in yathrib/medina

so if you really want to learn sire,go and read

babs787:
@Godson2009 . Could not fathom the satanic verses or you assist me with the verses please. Just like when your God Jesus is unaware that he came to die for christians' sin and cried on the cross to himself, 'that my God, why has thou forsaken me"The verses please just for my own sake

yes you are right,he paid the ultimate sacrifice/price for all our sins,however i wouldnt go into that as it has been addressed in the religious section all you need to do is go there and click on the link and check it out, as for the satanic verses,again while you are making me repeat myself i will make an exception this one go and read your quran 53;19-23 then come back and explain it to me in details,then we will evaluate how far you have learnt

babs787:
@Godson2009
Why not read your bible first before accusing others of same? Verses were abrogated but that does not mean Allah forgot, it was meant for certain type of people during a particular time. Have you asked yourself if God of the bible could be regretting creating people after saying all what God created are good but still said God regretted creating man, are you saying God does not know what His creation would do?

in case you have not opened a bible before i will advice you to do so,i read the quran and hadiths extensively before accusing mohammad of anything,first of,jesus christ DID NOT participate in the old testament,there are various records right there in the bible boldly written where GOD expressed dissappointment with the prophets disobeying him,this is different from mohammed who took full resposibility for everything that came out of his mouth,therefore he is liable for the words both old and new,
if you asked me to account for moses and the rest of the prophet on some actions,i will say honestly that i cant,besides we shouldnt be having a discussion about them in the first place should we??

or do you want to disobey your prophet?after all,he said he has not come to change the words from the prophets you are now accussing didnt he say so?or have you not read your quran up to that extent as well??

your prophet mohammad,validated our prophets,and everything including their actions,so unless you have heard from mohammad directly between the time i wrote those comments and the time you posted yours,remember you are going against your prophet's precepts true or false?

as for regretting,it was based on the sin they committed then,however in spite of that,his love still subsists to this day,have you not seen the actions of some human beings?
would you not regret creating someone like hitler?
would you not regret creating someone like ted bundy and other serial killers? e.t.c
seeing as i have to explain everything to you,hope that clears the regretting part.

babs787:
@Godson2009

Do you mind if if I give you verses on killings of your God that does not want repentance?

please do,and for every verse i will give you a corresponding verse mostly in the new testament where he has called on sinners to come unto him and will be forgiven as long as they confess their sins with a contrite heart, i will even give you a verse where he has said that he does not want the death of sinners but for them to repent and be saved.

babs787:
@Godson2009
Hold it, my family and myself reverted to Islam. I have friends and stories of same too and I am working on someone presently and Allah would touch his heart.

Have you pondered on the verse where Jesus told them to buy swords? Please do we examine God of the OT  or NT?

yes i dont disbelieve you,but for every single christian that converts to islam,there is more than ten to replace them,have you been to redemption camp lately?
just drive up and down that expressway,then go to redemption camp on holy ghost service,then show me any  single mosque with such crowds in the whole of africa, show me or mention the names of prominent christians that have converted i can mention three for now

pastor ashimolowo im sure you know him,pastor of kicc
pastor hamzat redemeed pathfinder parish manchhester
evangelist gboyega shitta,he is from the popular shitta family in lagos island,and wa sin line to head/be the imam of their own family mosque, he didnt just convert and be an annointed evangelist,he converted his immideate family as well.

yes i have pondered on where they were told to buy swords,but did they ever use any swords?
what happened even when he was captured and peter cut off the ears of one of the captors??

is that why mohammad resolved to kill several tens of thousands of innocent traders?

babs787:
@Godson2009

Is christianity a religion?

Oga, it is Allah that changes, not man? When you are ready, signify and would take you through christianity.

yes sire,christianity is a religion that has been reiterated and confirmed as a fact,i should be asking you if islam is a religion,because it looks more like a cult where slaves have to differ to one master(not my words,but the words of your master mohammad)he said you all are slaves of allah,i am a beloved son to my daddy GOD,

no sire,i have posted more than enugh proofs of mohammad,s many contradictions and what i need you to do is to show me the verses i have posted severally are my own creating or found in the quran,if i have doctored the pages of my own quran,im sure i have not touched yours abi?lol so check which of us is justified.

i have been ready since last year sef,didnt you read my many challenges?please convinse me why i should convert to islam based on my concerns which i have listed publicly on these forums/sections?
note;i dont want you to bombard me with verses of the qurans telleing me about what ll happen to unbelievers,i just want you to address my questions and i will publicly and privately convert to islam with a picture of me in a mosque posted on here, are you ready to do the same?
@ uplawal
hope this man is not your boyfriend o,and if he is not then i cant write statement o,because muslim men can be jelouse,this one that he is doing defender of the universe for you voltron  

if you think i dont have anything better to do on my saturdays or am a professional typist,then keep on waiting, however if you areally willing to read them then i will suggest you go to my last thread on the religious section, i dont get my facts from the internets,i type them from the quran or textbooks,hence i hope you r not suggesting i use a large chunk of my saturday which i should be spending in pizza express or odeon cinema in a couple of minutes poring over books for your own pleasure,

if you have not come across the verses where mohammad was criticised for robbing and pillaging traders from yemen going to mecca then you shouldnt call yourself a muslim,as it shows you dont read your quran,even abuzola will not contest that, we can excuse uplawal because she is a young muslim convert.

again if you dont know that mohammad had his uncle the head of the hasmi clan and khadijah his wife as his protectors,then im sorry i cannot spoonfeed you information which i got after several weeks and months of continuous reading in the library and at home e.t.c

go and do your own research,or look through my past comments,where i have posted the verses where he enjoined his followers to behead and cut off the finger tips of polytheists,jews christians, in fact that quranic verse abroagted the former defensive jihad stance

i am not reffering to the bible,i am reffering to specific instances in the quran,which none of you are yet to address, stop using questions to answer questions if you have nothing to hide, it is a nigerian thing and it is not polite!!

are you sure you are a muslim or did you just convert? if you are then i dont have time,you need to learn at the feet of olabowale,abuzola then you can engage me.

how can you not have heard of q53;19-23 go and read it,and then tell me what it says

the only questions i have asked myself is the ones i am asking you muslims about your prophet of abrogations and errors,answer me if you have a straight unambigous answer and stop hiding under re-post,repost or countering questions with question, you responded to the questions i threw open to muslims about your mohammad,if you want to ask me a question about the bible do it properly like i did!!

well then,statistics dont lie,go and see the level of muslims converting to pentecostal christianity, a living obvious example is my church redeemed show me any mosque in the whole of africa and abroad as big as redemption camp, i dont need to tell you how many people ws there the last holy ghost festival (in excess of 1 million ppl)not mentioning cannanland,tb joshua,christ embassy,deeper life show me the muslim gathering that has matched such numbers?

for each convert to islam from christianity,there are 10 converting to christianity mention a christian of note real born again that converted in nigeria, i can mention 3 for you
1.evangelist gboyega shitta a member of the popular shitta family in lagos island,was in line to be an imam and actually head their amily mosque,he is not only an evangelist after converting,his family have converted to islam.

pastor hamzat is a pastor with redeemed church here in the uk

you know pastor ashimolowo already

if you check my earlier comments with uplawal,i was telling her about a core muslim girl i am converting as well so for that your friend we lost,i have gained a beautiful girl for my lord and saviour jesus christ.

yes and where in that bible did you see him or his disciples use that sword like mohammad and his renegade followers did?or is that where mohammad got his justification for beheading from?

i am ready,so please address my concerns about islam,while you are convincing me to change to islam?
i am confident enough in myself as a born again and broken christian t still delve into the quran and hadiths and still come out with my faith unshaken,why dont you do the same and we ll see?you were never a born again christian and you know it,at most you were a "xtian"meaning incomplete or sunday sunday christian.

if you cant afford to read the comment i directed at uplawal that you hijacked then why asking me to provide quranic verses about the above??

i will sentence you to a couple of weeks learning at the feet of olabowale if you cannot answer the above questions satisfactorily, as you can see i did not quote you properly before dealing with your questions,it is because i am rushing to have a shower and join my christian friends for a trip to pizza express and catch a movie later, have a good saturday and will see you much later this night
@uplawal
is this your boyfriend,tell him not to put sand sand in your garri o,this one that he is defending you like voltron, muslim men can be mega jelouse o and i cant write statement in charlton police station on, will you like to go with me to a 3 days christian programme?you will enjoy it o

babs787:
@Godson2009


You should ask yourself on the truth of the story where a horse talked in OT of your bible afyer seeing alleged light/angel on his way to prosecuting christians?

Note; Please read your bible and know it very well before coming here.

is that enough justification for him to weave stories to captivate his followers?so u agree he was weaving stories to match biblical stories then?

@abulmanaat
thanks for your response,however hope you will pardon me if i disagree with you first on my first question. the reason why i have been posting it all over the threads is because
a.nobody has been able to give me a satisfactory answer

b.because contradictions and abrogations doesnt lend credibility to any academic or literary work,talk less of a book held as holy by hundreds of millions of religious adherents, the way i see it is that everyone deserves to know the truth and then make up their mind based on that.

you still did not answer my questions,we know that other prophets minus jesus christ had been sent,my question is that

why is there many contradictions in the messages allah gave mohammad?forget about other prophets

a.he nullified and expunged the satanic verses later in the quran

b.he abrogated the verses of "no compulsion in islam"including these on defensive jihad e.t.c and replaced it with the no holds bared,full on lesser jihad. i could go on,

yes i agree,but moses was only a prophet which we are both agreed on,where we disagree is that jesus was not a prophet but the son of GOD,who came to right the wrongs of the old ways of doing things,he was honest and upfront enough to say the old testament way of doing things needs to be improved and corrected hence old and new testament, we are not denying that,we have admitted and moved on, this is why i am bemused and suprised you muslims and mohammad find it difficult to admit that there are fundamental errors,contradictions e.t.c in the quran.

it is worse now because the only unchallenged authority who would have cleared the air is not alive anymore i.e mohammad,jesus and sucessive disciples corrected all necessary questions in the new testament because they have seen situations like this coming up.

all the abrogations you are citing dont interest me,i will prefer you cite instances that are contencious issues in the present world we live in i.e
terrorism/jihad e.t.c im not interested if a muslim visits a grave or not,i dont and i am not muslim, lastly if you ask abuzola and co, i dont accept quranic verses justifying your stance what i want is simply a direct answer and a direct quranic verse answering such answers thanks.

2.to be honest with you,i chose my dissertation topic,and also to read the hadiths quran e.t.c with a totally objective mind,and because i admired the islamic way of life,simplicity e.t.c
but i had cause to change my mind after reading the quran,the hadiths and really researching and educating myself, i discovered a pattern of gender inequality,insecurity,intollerance,needless violence,paedophillia and most worrying of all your prophet was not a man of high moral values,
i could identify with jesus christ because he did not indulge in earthly pleasures like womanising,stealing,taking his follower's women e.t.c which your prophet indulged in without compulsion, i only accept religion on "its own merits and demerits"and islam has not measured up to that.

let me ask you,if you were a beautiful girl and you had two suitors,they are both ok outwardly but you need to know which one to choose,however one is desperate,threatening you glaring at you and shouting at you while the other just appeals to you,your conscience and doesnt force any decisions on you, which of them will you choose?that is the scenario with islam and christianity, you should ask yourself why muslims are converting to christianity in droves

3.[b]so in other words,you cannot justify gender inequality?[/b]hmmmn, uplawal note!!!!!

4.no sire,on the contrary the meccans were very tolerant, how many muslims will sit by and watch only one man and a handful of worshippers castigate and pour vitriol on them and their gods like mohammed did in mecca?remember he had protectors,
some of the controversies was
a.the sexual hedonism he was indulging in severally remember when his wives were complaining and mummuring,he appropriated the wife of his step son to himself.
b.his revelations always seems to favour him and comes when he needs to have his way,examples, when he was being criticised for robbing innocent traders a convenient revelation came justifying him and his actions,
c.when he wanted a blank cheque on womanisisng,a convenient revelation came that any woman he held with his right hand was his for the taking
d.marriage to aisha at 9 years old
e.he broke his words to the jews,he broke his word by robbing during the holy month,he lied that the meccans killed one of his followers first(i can prove all this too)
i have more but ill avail you the opportunity to answer these first.

5.i dont believe you will be pleading the fifth amendment on me,when i thought you will address all my questions like you said

“a.robbing innocent traders of their belongings,when he could simply have prayed to allah,to make provisions for him or worked as a farmer like the inhabitants of yathrib/medina did”

answer/my proof;in answer to the criticisms following his robbery escapades quran 2;217 they will question thee concerning the holy month,and fighting in it;say" fighting in it is a heinous thing(meaning he admitted he was indulging in an heinous act, a supposed prophet, but to bar from god's way,and disbelief in him,and the holy mosque,and to expel its people from it-that is more heinous in god's sight(does two wrongs make a right??)remember what gandhi said an eye for an eye,makes the world go blind and he is not a prophet, i wonder) and the persecution is more heinous that slaying.(notice that he never mentioned that the meccans slayed him,he said "persecution"which the online dictionary defines as

To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs.
To annoy persistently; bother, but your prophet thought it wise to visit death upon them for bothering him is that fair??

b.“b.sleeping with several slave girls,to a point where even his wives were mummuring in protest”

my proof;the quranic verse below was in reply to the mumurings when he was spending more time with the christian slave to the detriment of attentions to his wife
quran 33;51, You may put off whom you please of them, and you may take to you whom you please, and whom you desire of those whom you had separated provisionally; no blame attaches to you; this is most proper, so that their eyes may be cool and they may not grieve, and that they should be pleased,

quran 4;24, And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (let me know if you want more)
“c.sleeping with a 9 years old girl”(even though i have provided proofs of this in the past,i will do so again.)

proof;muslim 8;3309, 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him,

she continues,

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old

bukhari 58;234, Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age

even her dad was not on board at first untill mohammad said this,

bukhari 62;18, Narrated 'Ursa:

The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother."(the i am your brother here is an objection on his part, remember this is a prophet which he wouldnt want to displease) The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

d.religious intollerance and the spread of hate which he has inculcated into his followers towards other religions,even though he claimed to like them and identify with them earlier in his ministry, which is still on till today.

"Produce your proof if you are truthful." [Q2: 111]’

below are my proofs;O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? (4:144)

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies (4:101)

fighting unbelievers O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. (9:123)

"I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment. (8:12-13)

i have more if you want, thanks

Jagoon:
@olabowale
What are you ranting about?

so you dont know, you have touched a very sore nerve
@alhaji olabowale
dont mind him o,muslims are not converting to christianity he is just lieing

Abuzola:
Too bad for a ghost worshipper. We keep answering your nuisance question but you turn a deaf hear, i will repeat myself, fighting was prescribed when the makkan were tormenting the muslim and later abrogated with no compulsion in religion likewise the drinking of alcohol, it wasn't forbidden but discourage and was later forbidden and many more, the logic here is because so that the muslim won't be in kind of tribulation, they are used to it before the advent of Islam in the Arabia so it came stage by stage. This is why the Quran is so good -

if you think you ll buy me off this cheap then you have another think coming, you think all my many months of reading the quran and hadiths is for fun?

first of all,there was no time the maccans tormented muslims,mohammad only used this reason to justify himself,when he started the first jihad i.e robbing and pillaging innocent travellers from yemen going to trade in mecca, connected to that is a question i will ask you, if uplawal jilted you to marry another man,will you take the bitterness or dissappointment out of her friends or aquitances?
that is what your mohammad did,all the meccans did was verbal abuse,they never laid a finger on him,both when his protectors were alive and when they died,they only sought to harm him,when he planned with outsiders to capture macca,which you will agree with me is an offence punishable by death,even till today in some countries

the no compulsion in religion has been abrogated by the quranic verse where mohammed enjoins his followers to kill all unbelievers,polytheists,christians,jews i have provided the relevant verses more than 5 times already,i took the pains to copy it from the quran and i am not ready to go through all that trouble again because of you sorry if you read your quran you will know the verses in question it is quite popular and a contentious verse as well!

we know islam came stage by stage,what i am asking you is that the words from the mouth of mohammed,which is supposedly from allah,how come he changed it later by nullification abrogation e.t.c
did your allah make mistakes??

or your all knowing and all seeing allah did not see that the satanic verses will cause troubles later?
your all knowing and all seeing allah didnt see that abrogating the defensive jihad,with the one enjoining muslims to fight every non muslims,and not stop untill everybody is under islamic rule will cause problems?

Abuzola:
Quran 2:106 'whatever a verse We (GOD) abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it, don't you know that God is Able to do all things ?'

hmm i see,that still does not answer my questions, is your god a god of mistakes and errors?
@the bolded
is your god able to make mistakes and commit errors in delivering visions and prophecies,not once or twice?

Abuzola:
To Godson Quran 2:6-7 'verily those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearrng, and on their eye their is a covering, theirs will be a great torment'

you should be ashamed of quoting this quranic verse,so your own allah does not want the repentance of sinners but to condemn them to torment??
no wonder people are converting to christianity in droves all round the world,how can a supposed creator open his mouth to say he has set a seal on his own creation's heart and hearing?

while your own allah is busy pushing people into eternal damnation by sabotaging their ears and hearts this is what my own GOD is doing to sinners irrespective f their sins,

mathew chapter 11;28-the end

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light

Abuzola:
take this message to your RCCG and that your pastor who romances women. Christianity my foot

if i take this kind of demented demonic message, g.o will laugh and then perform deliverance on me lol you should sit down and wonder why all the revelations that keep coming out makes your religion sink more and more into the mire of violence,intollerance,hatred e.t.c is that what religion is supposed to be about?

uplawal:
@Abuzola, thanks i just woke up,dnt mind gudson,he is just trying to twist himself not the QURAN,av always told him theres no contradiction but anyaways thanks for answwering that

why are you burying your head in the sand alhaja??you see why you should thoroughly research religions before you dive in?im sure you didnt realise manyh of these things before you converted from frying pan to fire

i challenged you to convert me you cant, meaning you have failed in one of your duties of jihad of the hand and tongue.
you asked me to show you the contradictions and abrogations,i showed you and you r saying i am twisting myself,even if i forged the copy of the quran and hadiths i am using,why dont you open your own quran and check the verses?
i will provide the verses for you to check,then compare and contrast either the quran or bible is contradictory, call your boyfriend to help you now,after all he is a proper muslim,you are still one leg in one leg out
iyalode pastor oluwo lol lol

olabowale:
@Godson2009: Is abrogation a correction of mistake process in your mind? What if you are skirt chaser, which I am almost sure you are, if I were to wean you from bedhopping, just I just say: Godson2009 none for you any more, or should I say to you a man, if you want some, go get married?

The end product, which is to completely stop you from disvirginning women who are not going to be your wife, turning them to your "ajeku" for their husbands' first time consumption is a long process! That process is abrogation of an earlier verse with another verse better or same value to the people who have bigger Iman, faith now!

The people who drink alcohol are told that when they come to prayer they should not be under the influence so that they are conscious of what they are saying. Later it was increased to dont drink, and this after they have reached a plateau whereby they now love Allah, Islam, Muhammad (AS) that the chances of leaving Islam for ignorance of disbelief is very remote. This is what am trying to do with you. There are no three gods, in this respect the Atheists who do not believe that there is God are a step ahead of you. They the atheists have moved a step higher than you in the abrogation ladder, and all they have to do now is to believe that they have a God and He is the Creator of all things!

Abrogation is your problem and you think this is what you hate about Quran? You are on your way to undersatnding Islam. Do you thread a 20 year old son like a 5 year old, about the history of the family? No. At 5, you tell him the new born just came from the stork as a result of dad and mom hanging out in their bedroom after a good period of time, so that the bird can pick him up at the right time, and deliver him to mom at the hospital.

But at 20, when you tell him dad and mom had sexual intercourse, would he say to you you lied to him when he was 5, hence he does not believe you to be a honest day, now? That is the process of abrogation! And by the way am not so concern about your age, but I want you to grow up in thinking at least to whatever that age is, because if abrogation is confusing you, then everything else will definitely do.

AGAIN,you still dont get it, while i appreciate the fact that everything is a gradual process,especially when learning in life,like you have used the analogy of a 5 yrs old and all that however from what i understand from the quran, mohammad was not a normal human like me and you,he was a prophet![b][/b] have you heard of the saying, to whom much is given,much is to be expected,if you read the parable of the 10 servants who their master gave money to in the bible you will get an idea of what i am saying,

mohammad is meant to be a prophet,getting his prophecies direct from his god,therefore he is to be held liable to any later incorrections,omissions,contradictions e.t.c because he decalred that he was a direct messenger of his god true or false?

therefore it stands to reason that,the only reason he could have later corrected himself so many times,or nullified and abrogated parts of words that came from his own mouth without any cohersion or intimidation is simply because he either made a series of mistakes in his prophecies and proclamations,which means he is a normal human being like you and i especially considering his other vices, or your allah made mistakes with the prophecies given to mohammad,in that case mohammad is not at fault,but your allah is hence he is prone to errors,mistakes e.t.c

now i want you to choose one or all of the above,because one or all of them seems to be the only plausible explanation for the contradictions, especially as you have not given any other convincing argument,do you see us using analogy to answer direct questions when talking about christianity?

uplawal:
@godson,oya list the contradiction if you dnt end up contradicting yourself,no single contradicton in the GLORIOUS QURAN,and am sure its not me that will start telling you that now,but the bible is so funny that the contradictions are too much that one just keep sighing milliontimes,it can even cause heart attack sef,i can never partake in a religion that sliced GOD into three,its pure ABORISHA,it does not have a second name,my worship to only ONEGOD the creator of heaven and earth and all thats in it is sufficient for me

i will list some of the quran;s contradictions then i will ask you to convince me to convert to islam

1.why was the satanic verses nullified and abrogated in the quran by your prophet mohammad?

2.why was the verses on defensive jihad,including the verse you have quoted today"no compulsion in islam" later abrogated by the quranic verses where mohammed enjoins all of you to behead christians,jews and polytheists and cut off their finger tips?

answet ehse 2 first before my next set of questions,also remember to convince me of the reasons why i should convert to islam,or dont you want to practise jihad of the tongue and hand as a pious muslim?

uplawal:
@sungod,am not even aware of that,anyway its good like that, ALLAHU AKBAR

allahu what??they compensated him with a bigger place and enough money,now he is planning to build a massive church worth millions of pounds, we ll keep you posted

uplawal:
what church keeps growing,i know many members that av left there cos his not real,shio,MAGOMAGO PEOPLE

for each member that leaves,ten more replace , go to ghana kicc,go to maryland lagos kicc visit the new site are you still in denial that the pentecostal church revival is sweeping across the world?you either step aside or join the wave or you ll be swept off your feet with the rest of the mujahideens

uplawal:
@godsun,pretender gazing at bulging breast in TM SHIRT every sunday,my own dating is not the sleeping type,until am married,whats the point when ALLAH does not permit it,and if you care to know,i kept myself from all you LONDON VAMPIRES,even when i was a christian, i find it greivious to do,cos i fear GOD.i know your type cos, MANY OF THEM IN CHURCH,AT THE END OF STORY THEY WILL TELL YOU,SIS TITI,IT DOES NOT MATTER,EVEN OUR PASTOR DID IT JO, THINGS AV CHANGED,WE ARE IN THE 21CENTURY,AND SINCE ITS ONLY ME YOU WILL BE DOING IT TO&ITS ONLY YOU I WILL BE DOING IT TO, so u think i dnt know,them plenty for REDEEM,imagine, i just shake my head,at the end is "INVISIBLE UMBRELLA GRACE" that will come suffer am. and to tell you,my own sweet potato,sugar banana tolerate me like anything,he cant even look closely at me and he always LOWER HIS GAZE,

lol lol lol you need to compile all your experiences and write a nollywood movie with it thank GOD for your life then,i am a born again and broken christian so i have no part in what you have just stated,neither will i ever have any part GOD forbid!

you dont know my type because my type is really scarce ,the beauty of christianity just like any loving father is that the lord accepts everybody irrespective of our sins,hence the reason he is still giving these people a chance to repent, would your father kill or condemn you just because you have done something wrong?has your parents disowned or killed you for converting to islam?we are not like mohammad who enjoins you muslims never to make friends with a non-muslim,we make friends and love everybody even pagan worshippers because they are entitled to a chance to repent

all your mujahideen blowing people up,or mohammad living up to that age in spite of the atrocities he had committed,dont you know it s because GOD was giving him a chance to repent?

if he cant look at you,maybe you have a mol;e on your cheek or you r not as fine as the time he met you, so dont conclude that its because you r a muslim woman,did olabowale not marry several women,how did he see them to check them out abegi!!!

uplawal:
@godsun,wetin i do you,na by force to convert back,i said my ALLAH is enough for me, i dnt need erand boy and a suicidal son to lead me to paradise.gudson,ADULTERY &FORNICATION is HARAM HARAM HARAM in ISLAM so we dnt do it,abi,am i talking to someone else?you so funny, how can me an HUMBLE ALHAJA turn back to say in jesus name,OLORUN O NIJE,MIO NI JEBI LAYE,MIO NI JEBI LORUN,HE WHO ALLAH GUIDES NO ONE CAN MISGIUDE EVEN PINPINI GODSON CANNOT

ok o ,we shall see awaiting alhaja lol dont worry we will send a report about the redeemed church to lagos or i will recommend another one for you to attend

Abuzola:
This christians are bunch of fools. They commit all kind of evil and after concluding it they come back to say i am born again, what a waste. We are all going to Allah

i v told you both of you will be arrested by the holy spirit,just like the thousands who converted and troop into our redemption camp every month in larger numbers

Jagoon:
@Godson
Was pastor Ituah not a bachelor b4 he became a pastor? That is apart from several other bachelor pastors in redeemed.

i am talking of the standing rule in the redeemed church,and you can check in other parishes of redeemed,however with pastor ituah,i honestly dont know because as you can see i am not resident in nigeria but u.k so i am only competent to comment on where i know

@poster
this is really brave and i commend you for it here are my questions

1.i have read the quran and several hadiths ,and i have come to a realisation that there were so many abrogations,contradictions contained in them,the first question is this, why should a supposed prophet of god,who received his prophecies from his allah,make mistakes or contradict himself severally?

2.is that a result of the prophet's error,or that of his own god,because the supreme GOD i know and worship will never ever make a mistake with his prophecies,neither will abrogate anything.

3. can you justify the gender inequality in islam against women?examples sitting in the back with the men in front,does it mean the men are better than the women?

4.why is there so much controversies surrounding prophet mohammad?

5.can you justify the prophet's moral conduct all through his ministry up untill his death?ill mention just a few,

a.robbing innocent traders of their belongings,when he could simply have prayed to allah,to make provisions for him or worked as a farmer like the inhabitants of yathrib/medina did

b.sleeping with several slave girls,to a point where even his wives were mummuring in protest

c.sleeping with a 9 years old girl

d.religious intollerance and the spread of hate which he has inculcated into his followers towards other religions,even though he claimed to like them and identify with them earlier in his ministry, which is still on till today

ill stop for now to give you ample time and opportunity to answer my questions,before i post my next set of questions,thank you in advance

i have been searching for it but didnt make any headway,pls could anyone share pls

uplawal:
@godsun,IWO GBE NA RU NI ABI WHAT LIGHT ARE U TALKING OF? MAN THERES NO LIGHT IN XTIANITY,BUT TOTAL DARKNESS,I TELL YOU SHES STILL IGNORANT OF MANY THINGS,IT DOESNOT MATTER THAT SHE WAS BORN AND BRED MUSLIM OKAY,MARK MY WORD, SHE WILL DISBELIEVE &BELIEVE AGAIN

yes o i carry o, didnt you read YOUR BIBLE when the tongue of fire landed on the head of the disciples and they started speaking in tongues,
she saw the light of GOD which has tabernacled inside me i agree with you no light in "XTIANITY" but there is light and salvation in CHRISTIANITY,you better hurry up and take your place,before ppl like her take your place in christianity o
lets assume that i want to convert to islam,i have given you several reasons why islam is not balanced and full of contradictions and falsehood,im throwing a challenge to you and olabowale and others,

give me the reasons to convert to islam and i will look for a verse in the hadiths or quran to negate whatever verse you come up with?are you willing to take the challenge iyalode alhaja oni teeth gold abi its silver

so now you dont have any explanation for mohammad's then right? this is so sweet i can taste it

MrCrackles:
Top grade madness. . . .
Some gullible folks will soon start telling pastors if they want to have a shit!

this isnt an insult,but are you ok??

KunleOshob:
Are you for real tell your pastor before you toast a girl you must be kidding me right Te level of indoctrination that goes on in these pentecostal churches is appalling . I once knew of a brother who aproached a pastor to help him toast a sister in the church and pray about it, unknown to him the pastor was also interested in the same sister. The pastor just told him to keep praying about it to see if the holy spirit would reveal anything to him meanwhile the pastor started dating the babe secretly whilst the mugun was still praying and "waiting for the lord's directive". To cut the long story short the guy almost had a heart attack when the pastor annouced in church some months later that he was getting married to the sister.

first of all,the reason why it is pertinent to inform the pastor is because as you well know,many guys and girls for that matter come to the church just to pick up girls while hiding under sister this or brother that,many girls have had their heart broken this way,hence telling the pastor is just to show the level of the guy's intentions, pastors too want every single sister to get married,what they dont want is their church to be a playing field where guys come to break girl's hearts hence they have to be the first line of defence for the girls,if you r genuinely interested in a girl and you are sure of your convictions,then you wouldnt oppose telling your pastor, would you allow a one night stand to introduce you to her parents?
if you told a girl,especially naija girl,i trust them that their first reaction will be"they v come again"the pastor will break the ice and make it easy for them to flow.

also,i dont know what church you have seen a pastor hooking up with a girl a church ember had eyes for,but it certainly not in a redeemed church,because for starters every redeemed pastor heading a church has to be married,before being allowed to head a church,hence if a redeemed pastor did that he will be removed

you did not ask me to justify what happened in the old testament,secondly like the name depicts "the old testament" with an emphasis on the old that is why we have "a new testament" moreover the changes did not favour jesus in a ny way shape or form,either in the old testament or in the new,he told us to change it for our own good,not his, people were being killed for stealing,and if one commits a sin you had to sacrifice a bullock,which has all been totally abolished in the new testament,

now all we have to do is kneel down and confess our sins,and we r forgivem simple

all the abrogations and contradictions in the quran favoured only mohammad,
1.the one where he spoke in support of the godess was because his ministry was still new and he wanted to appeal to a wider demographics considering everyone were all polytheists

2.the one that came to him in medina justifying the raids and stuffs was advantageous to him considering the spoils and plunder he was getting
3.the one about jihad which he later abrogated when he got stronger he did make friends with jews and after using them he abrogated the law, i could go on and on they were all to his advantage

uplawal:
@GODSON,and who is the ignorant girl then?

she is a born and bred muslim girl who hasknown no other religion untill she saw the light in me and now she is moving to the side of light
we r waiting for you to join us when your holiday is over

Abuzola:
@godson, thats the best answer i can give, don't be upset Quran 2:106 'whatever verse God abrogate or cause to be forgotten. God bring a better one or similar to it. Don't you know that God is able to do all things ?'

thank GOD you said that,so we r both agreed that your own GOD can forget or cause your prophet mohammad to forget prophecies? ;Dthis is sweet,

also,your own GOD makes the mistake of sending a substandard or deficient prophecy or vision,and then turns around to correct himself and sends a better one instead?

thank GOD you cant modify these comment,for the sake of other muslims struggling with their religion,they can see it here that abuzola has publicly agreed that his own muslim allah is capable of making mistakes,

1 down olabowale to go

uplawal:
@GUDSUN mio kin tu "IGI"its already sealled dear, and besides all my suitors are MUSULUMI ODODO,so am not ready to search again.

i see,you r not ready to fight for islam yet o,if you ll be saying all this ones, are you afraid or scared to tu igi ni?what is sealed, dont worry i am giving you a true prophecy that you will eventually get married to a born again handsome e.t.c christian you are on temporary leave

uplawal:
@godson,did you just comeback from work,hope good and not strainious?

yes o we than GOD for his goodness and mercies how was your own day?hope you read your quran today,felt good today because i am in the process of converting a north african girl to our side

i am insinuating that mohammad was veeery good at weaving stories,because of the intrigues and flair he always added to his stories, "and they knew that he was the messiah and worshipped him, and the angel appeared to him and he went into a violent trance that he almost fell off the mountain  why didnt he fall off?lol

fizzybaba:
on the other branch of my argument is the assertion that the hijab,doesnt stand alone,but part of an ingrained pattern of gender inequality and religious female enslavement masked up as religious doctrine, the hijab,women sitting behind the men both outside and indoors,the women hidden behind closed doors in the presence of visitors,not being allowed to lead a mosque

Interesting! u just revelaed your destination.i dont see it as a branch.

wanna know why? non muslim have always raised the deluded perception of women enslavement in islam as an issue

and its getting intriuging the more. but unfortunately, am exhausted of orientating non muslim(xtians) who have had raised the issue in the past.

here is my suggestion. if u thought the women are enslaved, why not find time out to have a chat with an hijab sister and have a discussion about her relationship with islam.how it has impacted on her? how it has elevated her, given her a meaning to life beyound exposing a woman's boobs in an automobile advert etc

and u will see her radiantly,gallantly,proudly,happily,sincerely,ecstactically 'reveal' to you, her joy in the practise of islam. If and as you will find her happy, i make bold to ask why you should use panadol for someone else's headache.its not worth it cos it wont work.

If u ever find someone who is not happy being a muslim woman, i task you to make efforts to convert her to xtianity.

you are totally right,but i totally agree with you that i will not find a woman bold enough to assert herself in islam,unless she wants some strokes of the whip or she wants a fatwah proclaimed upon her,
a pattern of systematic subversion since the advent of islam in 55 something if i am right,and sucessive doctrines have suceeded in holding them down to a point where they have no voice in your religion.

what you are suggesting is like a wicked father telling a visitor to ask any of his children if he doesnt treat them kindly, what do you expect all the chil;dren to say?especially as they are looking at their horsewhip in a corner

Abuzola:
@godson- why not open a thread and ask this questions instead of crooking the thread

why,are you threatened in any way shape or form?lol
ill open the thread if you swear by the kopran that you ll address my concerns there and you wont run

of course it is allowed,do you know the ratio of islamic men to women these days?

all this your quranic stories will be good for nollywood or yorubawood
i must admit mohammad,knew how to add salt and pepper to all his stories, not only was the horse sinking in the sand,the horse now realised?lol lol im sure even the stone and sand he was walking on bowed down for him as a prophet, that man has the same desease as mobutu,idi amin,obasanjo e.t.c"delusions of grandeur"

uplawal:
@godson,pls try and see clearly,i thot u said 72 virgins for my guy in paradise, thats why i said since no HIV will be there,am saved,so which one is fornicating you are now saying,or you have forgotten its you people that practice it well well and still lead the worship songs,my dear, Such is not permitted for once in ISLAM,and is HARAM,so i dnt do it,so preach that to your christian sisters that sees no big deal in sex before marriage,anyway i wish u best of luck in your search for a beautiful,resourceful,intelligent and godly lady

oh i see,you never know about hiv considering the level of confusion and sexual orgy that will be going on in your own part of paradise
as for fornicating in church,thank GOD you are a christian on temporary leave to a mosque,show me where fornication and adultery is allowed in the bible?
i agree fornication is haram in islam,but sleeping with a 9 years old girl is permitted in the quran though,so which one is worse?
thank you o,and i wish you luck in your search for a handsome,resourceful,spirit filled,born again man

fizzybaba:
the point is that covering oneself up to the shoulders is not a detterent to or for a man or woman for that matter to have lustful thoughts towards them so if that is what mohammad was trying to prevent,then it falls flat in the face of any deductive reasoning, that is the reason i catalogued the various parts of a woman's body which is not covered by the hijab, hope you get the logic now im sure olabowaLE DOES

u seem to have issues with comprehension

the hijab covers every parts of the body except for the face and hands.the hijab is not a scarf.its a long veil that covers a lady from head to toe.non fitting apparel with opening for the face and the hands alone.

could people possibly lust over hands and face? well perhaps.certainly not the way they would lust over a lady dressed in a top(blouse) that is miles away from her tight jeans trouser that struggles effortlessy to cover her butt but fails to.u seem them all around, dnt you?

here is my question.given the definition of hijab, have u ever lust after an hijab sister? i guess not.it takes a real pervert to lust after one dressed in such outfit coz there are no exposures nor curves on display.

here is my conclusion.that some people may still lust after a woman dressed in hijab does not mean the hijab should not be used.its a command from the Almighty.

here is an analogy. i have some xtian friends who dont go to church and i ask them why.the unconvincingly argue that there are people who go to church yet do not have the best of xters.does that make sense? should that preclude them from going to church?

dont worry sire,i comprehendo reall good
the point of my comment is simply that,if the hijab is to guard against adultery and fornication,i am simply saying it will not do much good for the reasons i stated as its loopholes.
to me,like i stated in my comments it is better and more productive for a religion to work on the hearts and minds of its adherents,rather than outward adornments,simply because not looking or not seeing everything doesnt prevent a man lusting after a woman,
you dont have to be a pervert to notice someone with an hijab is either ugly or beautiful.
the hijab might cover cleavages but it wont cover curves or a rear exterior e.t.c
here is my own analogy,
if you have a car alarm fitted to 10,000 vehicles would you continue selling the alarms if it has only worked in 200 of the 10,000 vehicles or concentrate on where you might secure the car more to prevent them being robbed?

on the other branch of my argument is the assertion that the hijab,doesnt stand alone,but part of an ingrained pattern of gender inequality and religious female enslavement masked up as religious doctrine, the hijab,women sitting behind the men both outside and indoors,the women hidden behind closed doors in the presence of visitors,not being allowed to lead a mosque e.t.c is all that because of adultery and fornications as well?

if it is,then i suggest the women get delivered because that will seem to me that 99% of all muslim women are prone to adultery

AFEEFA:
@GODSON2009

The reason i say my KALIMAT SHAHADAH timelessly is to re-affirm my faith in the religion of peace and continue in the ways and teachings of the noble prophet Mohammed (SAW).
You will never see me without the Hijab,that shall never happen.
I however pray that you will one day give up the banner of deceit and baseless argument but join in the crusade for 'hikmat' that you were created for.
I leave you to ponder on this and on that note, i say Sallam alaiykum.

well good for you,but we both know that you can say 1000 kalimat shahadah and still commit sin the very next minute, suicide bombers shout allah akbar before killing or blowing people up,does it mean that they are justified?i will even say the same thing of a christian,the fact that i recite the lord's prayers or tell everyone GOD bless you does not mean that im not a sinner.

well,its just a friendly advice so that you islamic women can be librated from the shackles of religious gender inequality, at the rate muslims are converting to islam,and the rate pentecostal churches especially my church redeemed are springing up all over,dont be suprised you see yourself going to church one day

deceit??like we christians say, i disagree with you my sister, islam is full of deceit not christianity, and no the arguments are not baseless,they contain a whole lot of merits.
i posed a set of questions to olabowale,abuzola and co which they have not been able to answer creditably,seeing as you are a pious and faithful islamic woman can you help me out?

1.i have read the quran (abdullah yusuf ali's translation)and several hadiths and i have noticed several contradictions by your prophets,including nullifications,abrogations e.t.c the question is this

why is there so many contradictions and abrogations in your quran especially from the mouth of your prophet?
a.did allah mix the prophecies up for mohammad or was it mohammad that mixed the prophecies up?
b.is your allah a god of reversal and contradictions or was the mistake from mohammad?
c.how can a supposed last and greatest prophet make mistakes and severally contradict himself several times?
d.why is it that anytime mohammad wanted to have his own way,or wanted to indulg in some selfish desires,some convenient prophecies come out from allah?

if you want the relevant verses of the quran and hadiths to prove the above allegations,i am ready to oblige you,ask abuzola and olabowale

the second part of my question goes thus,

being a good and faithful muslim woman,could you answer these few questions for me
1.why did mohammad disinherit his ten widows commanding them not to re-marry after his death?
2.we know the reward of a faithful muslim man is 72 virgins in paradise,what is the reward of a faithful islamic woman?(pls dont quote the generic verse of same thing for me )
3.i am in trigued with a particular part of the quran,where mohammad was saying something about having fresh young men in paradise, was this directed at you women or men or both?
4.do you agree or would you allow a man to get married to your 9 years old daughter?
thanks and will be awaiting your prompt response

allaikum waH SALLAM