₦airaland Forum

Abuzola:
Are u mentally ok ? How can a man who doesn't want to die, infact prayed not to be crucified then eventually got disgrace and crucified crying to death be your imbelic saviour ? Huh, can't u think, see mathew 27:46 and luke 22:42 to verify my point

i realli feel for you because you dont understand your own quran,so i dont expect you to get head nor tail of the bible,
how many time will these verses be explained to you,but because of your pig headed insistence on following a fallacy called islam you have been deliberately blinded to the truth, jesus christ came in human form hence he had human feelings just like anybody,so what is your point??

your supposed prophet mohammad the slave of a dead allah,did he not indulge himself in morally questionable acts unbecoming of a prophet??
how about his murders,stealing,paedophillia,having sex with anything in skirts,covetiousness e.t.c compare those with a man who was tortured for several hours,who now cried unto the one that sent him in agony before giving up, to show that his father sent him to earth out of choice rather than weakness he rose again on the third day and appeared to his disciples e.t.c

@abulbanaat
while i appreciate the long winded response,if you cared to ask your brethren abuzola and olabowale,you will realise that posting 1 million quranic verses to answer a simple and straightforward question does not impress me one bit.
in your response,you ruther said that i should open my heart,at what expense?

are you saying if i dont believe the lies and contradictions in islam im not opening my heart?
well,i am a born again christian,and i have opened my heart wide open by reading copiously from the quran,including several hadiths,my honest appraisal after doing so is that i am much more convinced than ever before that christianity is the way to go as your religion is full of gaping holes,which no one has been able to fill.

on the first note,of the satanic verse,you have not answered me question still,
mohammad,spoke in support of the worship of the three godess true or false?

b.again,i will reiterate that this same explanation of yours have been eloquently given by olabowale but it didnt wash then,and it certainly isnt going to wash now,

i will equally cite some examples when mohammad enjoined his followers in the quran that there was no compulsion in islam,secondly he also told his followers that in the execution of jihad christians and jews who did not convert were to be let alone,but to pay jizya,however the same mohammad,warned his followers not to take non believers as friends and also enjoined them to strive against them anywhere they are metwithout turning their backs, mohammad tells his followers to behead unbelievers polytheists,christians and jews and cut off their fingertips.
im sure you realise that the last quranic verses where mohammad asked you his followers to kill all jews and christians,has abrogated all other verses

this simple example will do for now,because i have posted a whole lot of the contradictions on various threads especially in the religion section,so its only fair to await favourable responses to them from you guys.

pls explain to me how this abrogation as you will call it is in the interest of peace and mutual co existence?

concerning the satanic verses,you are now saying the same thing i hate hearing from muslims when they are cornered,
how come its only unfavourable hahadiths that are unreliable?
the ones which paints islam in positive light are reliable right? how convenient

my dear sire,dont explain offensive and defensive jihad to me i dislike being patronised.i will explain it to you if you so care,
in case you didnt realise,the offensive jihad assertion which you are on about,has been totally and unequivocally rejected by radical islamist,it is not supported in core islamic states like the middle east far east north africa e.t.c,and the only proponents of it are the modern islamist and western backed islamic states and organisations,the quranic verse of no compulsion in religion,including the defensive jihad has been abrogated by the sword verses,and if you cared to study your quran,you will find that out,

dont worry sire,the fire and brimstone scaredy tactics of hell fire mohammad has been suing to hoodwink you people will not work with me, i simply am not interested in the other abrogations because it does nothing for me,answer directly the abrogation concerning jihad/the sword verses,which you are yet to do.

well,why not forget about what others have written about your supposedly "holy" prophet and lets do a simple yes or no session.
1.did your prophet indulge in a free for all sexual proclivity?
2.did he covet and eventually take his adopted son's wife?
3.did he sleep with slave girls,to the extent that his wives were murmuring?
4.did he assasinate a poet that satirized him and then later pay blood money?
5.did he murder people in cold blood?
6.did he rob innocent traders?

ill await your prompt answers to these six questions before i post more, the reasons for this is so that we dispense with the whole rigmarole of writing an essay,which doesnt even address the questions in the first place

i dont know where you got your facts from,but look towards nigeria where i presume you are presently domiciled and tell me which is the fastest growing religion?

now look towards the united states of america and tell me which is the fastest growing religion?
go to europe,even the traditionally core islamic states are being slowly converted, places like somalia are having a higher amount of christians,indonesia,malaysia
have you seen the size of redemption camp lately?
please if this is meant to be a feel good comment,then i wont burst your bubble,but i suggest you research on hard facts,which is what i deal in,not conjectures,

to prove my assertion of gender inequality in islam,

quran 4;34, Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great, SO DO YOU BEAT YOUR OWN WIFE?

bukhari 72;715, A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires

women worth considerably less than men, check your quran 4;11
Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half,

the last but not the least for now,

quran 2;228, and the men are a degree above them [women]"

in case you didnt realise,it simply means that they have a frree will and right to do what they want,if GOD made you drink from the gutters each time you sinned,do you know how many times you would have only today??
who are you or any male to say or determine any woman's rightful place,what if she wanted to lead a mosque and she was qualified,will islam allow that?, lol i though so too
please do not justify an archaic and inhumane doctrine of islam because you want your religion to appear good i hope i have proven to you that gender in equality is alive and kicking in islam.

if you have not discovered the verses where mohammad's wives were murmurring,i will oblige you,because im good like that

quran 33;51
You may put off whom you please of them, and you may take to you whom you please, and whom you desire of those whom you had separated provisionally; no blame attaches to you; this is most proper, so that their eyes may be cool and they may not grieve, and that they should be pleased, all of them with what you give them, and Allah knows what is in your hearts; and Allah is Knowing, Forbearing,

now read verse 52,
It is not allowed to you to take women afterwards, nor that you should change them for other wives, though their beauty be pleasing to you, except what your right hand possesses and Allah is Watchful over all things

these two verses were in reference to the time your prophet's many wives were grumbling at the attention he was giving to a slave girl(mary the copt)

now look at quran66;1-5

and to satisfy your curiousity,look at
quran 4;24

i hope this is enough proof,

as for taking his step son's wife to himself,i wont even bother answering that because its either you are pulling my legs,but if you are serious,then i will refer you to sheik 1 on uplawal's list to educate you further,

you see what i am saying?why the whole rigmarole,when you eventually agreed with me that the marriage to aisha was contracted at 6 years old
please let us be direct and stop dilly dallying,over mundane and moot points//

you dont need to teach me how the jews were tercherous,because ithey are simply lies, the problem mohammad had with them,was because they never accepted him as a bonafide prophet,and that s what islam has been about, you did not respond to my assertions rather you kept quiet, for a sheik 3 or what is your post on uplawal's ranking,you should be doing better

im not reffering to just battle of badr,which was officially or unofficially the first millitant jihad,i am reffering to the time mohammad arrived in yathrib or medina as it was later known,he could not farm,as the quraysh tribe where he was from were predominantly traders,hence he started raiding and stealing from innocent travellers to make ends meet the question is
1.if he was a true prophet,why didint he simply pay to his own allah for providence of food and drinks instead of resorting to self help shedding innocent blood??
2.was he that lazy,that he could not adapt to farming?he wouldnt be the one doing the actual work,but his followers so why take the easy way out??

i wish i could sit down at home tmorrow,and money credited to my account,bi can do that by being a criminal and taking the easy way out,but i chose to work hard,why didint your prophet take the moral high ground, if he is your beaon and compass of moral probity,then no wonder suicide bombers are running riot everywhere,

well,the difference between the islamic millitants and the lords army in uganda e.t.c is that in the new testament there is nowhere GOD tells or enjoins his disciples to strive against unbeleivers,rather he highlights love and compassion at every opportunity. but the quran makes it abundantly clear and imperative that you must fight against unbeleivers,tales abound of all the christians you are beheading all over, google the somalian christians your brothers just beheaded a couple of days ago,yet we will continue to preach love and evangelize either you like it or not and we love you our brothers and sisters even if you hate us, and i know that makes you people really mad but tough!!!we love you

as to your question well the answer can be answered in the various northern religious riots,in spite of the churches and the christians killed,we still extend our hands of fellowhip to muslims yes or no?

taneemrah:
@Godson2009
Really? That means I can continue to sin anyhow & anyway belieivng somebody has died for the sins I'm committing which means my paradise is already ensured whichever way I lived in this world what a senseless thinking

and there lies the ignorant thinking you muslims have been peddling about, he has died for our sins so that we shall not be judged by the sins of adam and eve,of the old testament e.t.c which we had nothing to do with,he also died for our sins so that if we sin now,we only need to go on our knees with a contrite heart and aks him for forgiveness of sins,as to sinning multiple times and going back for forgiveness,well that is why he is the merciful,benevolent GOD,we wre living under his grace and mercy.
however he said except a man be born again,he shall not enter the kingdom of GOD, so if you continue to sin,even though he has died for us you will brun in hell fire if you dont confess your sins with a truelly repentant heart

you should reflect on your islamic way of asking forgiveness of sins, will the five times a day prayer guarantee you will not sin before you sleep?
what is the rationale behind dropping all vices during fasting,then starting again at the end of the fasting period?
that is the senseless thinking to me.

go and join the rest of the women at the backroom,islam is the idol worshipping,diety adulating religion

you worship the moon and stars

you worship the kaba
you kill rams as sacrifice every year
mecca your satanic headquarters,must receive human blood every year or why do you think people must die at every single pilgrimage?its either they are crushed or something evil happens, how many people have died on jerusalem pilgrimage, food for thought lol

sorry the colour thing didnt work out to seperate the quotes from the replies,but hope you can decipher it

hpw did he point them to the wrong way: that God is One, Unseen and not a human being and has no parner and a proper name? You do not tell the truth or do you, except that your heart does not accept it: how did Muhammad (as) start out his miission? He gathered his people together and told them all the idols are no use and that Allah is the Qne Viable Lord. This alone, is enough to act against all that you have put forward!
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yes he did,then he turned around to defend the three godess just because he wanted to endear himself to the arabians and wasnt powerfl enough lol i wonder why he wasnt making mouth then,he later turned around and nullified the verses, im sure he has never heard of the saying that paper will always leave traces lol



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yes allah and your mohammed in conjunction can say anything to justify his position,what did you expect him to saymy followers,im sorry i made a series of mistakes??would anyone have taken him any serious after?please open your eyes of understanding sire, if he was sure of himself and his message,then he wouldnt be playing to the gallery so that people will not run away,go and check the bible's account of jesus christ,he did not mince words right from the get go,untill he was cruxified that is the true mark to show you mean business

Surah Abasa is enough to refute your allegation. Actually the first few verses so that you do not think yourself as important that much!! by the way can you put Jesus in the same condition; going from pillar to post of I am God, I am son of God, I am son of Man, I am a man, while the disciples called him Servant? How about please buy swords, if thats the last thing yoy do, since they have few cloths, short of them being naked, he asked that they only keep what was on their back, in order to acquire these swords, to no one fights? Please tell me the truth; why would a man who started out saying that he came with war not peace all of a sudden be a peaceful man; what gives? Lol.
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it is so sad that you keep on harping on about the same 4 reasons right from the beggining of this debate till now, look at all the various reasons we have advanced to show your mohammad is a blantant fraud??and all you can come up with is the triune,buying swords,cursing fig tree, i and the toher guys have asked you not less than 20 questions about your prophet which you and your folllowers have not been able to satisfactorily answer isnt it a pity really
in response to your question i will ask you to do a comparative analysis on both jesus and mohammed and tell me who shed blood??lol




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first of all,have you noticed that this is the 3rd time you are going on about a particular abrogation which happened to favour your mohammad i.e drinking and what not?? why dont you give us series of example,secondly in responding directly to your challenge,the satanic verses and the one where mohammad told you his followers to tolerate other religions namely the jews and christians,now turning around later to tell you to kill and disfigure them is not doing any favours to the folowers of islam,who have been blowing themselves up in thousands in the mistaken believe that 72 virgins are waitingfor them in hell

They say Paradise, you said hell! While you have no Paradise in your christian belief, except that you say heaven and lake of fire, you have been better to say lake of fire or heaven where hell is presently located. I have search the Quran and have not found 72 virgins yet. Could you therefore direct me to it, or you are just putting me on. I have dealt with the satanic verses, but let me just ask this; If abrogated verses are still kept in the Quran, since it only shows the progress from the lowest quality of man to the best of quality that is finally attained, should it not be that the Quran should leave thse satanic verses in the Quran as they have been abrogated? If they are not there, it shows that the Quran did not have them all along, if we take into considerations all the other verses that go against idol worshipping and specificallya whole chapter was dedicated to it, refuting the permissibility of even approaching idolatry; Surah Kafiruu? Further Islam came out of the gate by saying there is no god, except One Sole God, complete in every respect, deserving all worship?
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alhaji be honest,does the last comment make any sense to you at all?it doesnt to me.
there was no time that i said the 72 virgins was in the quran,but it was in the hadiths,if you promise to eat pork this week,i will post the hadith AGAIN, im sure abuzola cannot lie that he did not read it when i posted it on his thread.
you have not dealt with the satanic verses, the question for you to deal with is
did mohammad speak in favour of the three godess or not??simple

again,i will point out the faulty rationale behind the abrogation in the quran, like you have stated,abrogations is chronicling the progress of man from the low to the high, in a manner of speaking iin islam, however mohammad was wrong to start with,this is evidenced by the fact that he adviced his followers wrongly at the beginning by speaking in support of the godess,most importantly however he told his followers that first there was no compulsion in islam and second if the chrstians and jews dont convert to islam,they are to be left alone, what did he do later?i.e your own idea of abrogation, he turned around to tell same followers to behead and cut off the fingertips of the same people he had earlier said were to live in peace withmuslims, he did not finish there,your abrogation further enjoins muslims to strive against them anywhere yu see them,and never to make friends with them e.t.c is that your own idea of abrogation??

i have posted the satanic verses for you,even though i have decided not to repost the same stuffs again,i will make this an exception if you want to see it again




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mohammad did not have to be weaned because he was above the law,and he did not want to be weaned,who dared to suggest that to him,with the kind of people he surrounded himself with??his exploits both sexually,his raids e.t.c has more than given us a potrait of the kind of man he was
"Nor does he (Muhammad SAAW) speak of his own desire. It is only an Inspiration that is inspired." [An-Najm: 3-4]. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Shall I take as a Wali (helper, protector, etc.) any other than Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth? And it is He Who feeds but is not fed." Say: "Verily, I am commanded to be the first of those who submit themselves to Allah (as Muslims)." And be not you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Mushrikeen [polytheists, pagans, idolaters and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah]. [EMQ Al-An’am, 6 : 14] "Verily, my Wali (Protector, Supporter, and Helper, etc.) is Allah Who has revealed the Book (the Quran), and He protects (supports and helps) the righteous. [EMQ Al-Ararat, 7 : 196] The right of legislation is for none but Allah. [EMQ Yusuf, 12 : 40] Do not obey the Kafir and the Munafiq. [EMQ Al-Ahzab, 33 : 1] [Say (O Muhammad SAW)] "Shall I seek a judge other than Allah while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Quran), explained in detail." Those unto whom We gave the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] know that it is revealed from your Lord in truth. So be not you of those who doubt. [EMQ Al-An’am, 6 : 114] All of these verses show that Muhammad (AS) like all Muslims was binded by the Quran except where ever its made specific for him; night prayers for example, or marrying more than 4 wives. Surah Azhab started with addreessing him drectly, which means all believers shall not be surprised when the same warning applies to them: O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Keep your duty to Allah, and obey not the disbelievers and the hypocrites (i.e., do not follow their advices). Verily! Allah is Ever AllKnower, AllWise. Chapter 33:1. One thing I have learnt about you, is that you are very firm in your determination to not tell the truth. So being abtrusive will not help you against Allah, maybe in the eyes of the ignorants you are a good believer!

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while ignoring all that you have posted in trying to whitewash your bloodthirsty prophet,simply answer yes or no.
was he surrounded by violent warriors or not?if no i will rpove to you that he did,i will even dig deepand give you the name of one of his top leutenants,who had the reputation of being really wicked and kills without will,you can post all the verses you want,but we have seen that mohammad says something else,and does another thing,so why should i believe him,especially with the lies i have discovered in the quran, one thing i have discovered about you is that you are sofanatically blinded by your religious fervour that you have intentionally refused to see and acknowledge the truth,rather you will keep on heaping lies upon half truths just to make the lies in the quran look real


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ANDyou met a guy that converted to islam and later his wife??/r u kidding,do you want me to start telling you all these i have met,bith in church,fellowship that converted from islam to christianity?
free sex is incolcated in your religion,by virture of the fact that your forebearers indulged in such,mohammed and his folowers indulged in free sex,and this is documented
Please bring out the documentaed "free sex" and below is the position of Quran and Muhammad

"Do not go near to adultery. Surely it is a shameful deed and evil, opening roads (to other evils)" (Quran 17:32).
"Say, 'Verily, my Lord has prohibited the shameful deeds, be it open or secret, sins and trespasses against the truth and reason"' ( Quran 7:33).
"Women impure are for men impure, and men impure are for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity." (Quran 24:26)
"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity, and God is well acquainted with all they do. And say to the believing woman that they should lower their gaze, and guard their modesty." (Quran 24:30-3 1)
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) has said in many places that adultery is one of the three major sins. However, the most interesting story is that of a young man who went to the Prophet. This man asked for permission to fornicate because he could not control himself. The Prophet dealt with him with reasoning and asked him if he would approve of someone else having illegal sex with his mother, sister, daughter, or wife. Each time the man said 'no'. Then the Prophet replied that the woman with whom you plan to have sex is also somebody's mother, sister, daughter, or wife. The man understood and repented. The Prophet(pbuh) prayed for his forgiveness.
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this is another reason to show you mohammad was full of lies and contradiction go and read your quran 33;50-51 where mohammad gives himself a blank cheque to sleep with anybody and everybody's wife,slaves and anything in skirts, thank GOD you posted these verses,,you have proved another direct contradiction thanks for making my job easier, more of that pls



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i really cant get head nor tail of this comment!
This is exactly how I feel most of the time when I read you, sconsidering that you work hard to defend the indefensible! I dont know how you do it, but I am sure that you are a legend in your own mind! My argument remains that Muhammad's adopted son was not his true son, and the ex wife of this man was not the same as the ex wife of his true son, since Quran says that the ex wife or wife of a father can not be married by the son, hence it is the reverse between father and the wife or ex wife of his son!
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you should be a rapper or hip hop artists,with this lyrics you have written down in defending a morally backward,and wrong act committed by your prophet, lets even assume for a second that the guy was not his adopted son?

what should a sensible adult,old man at that do,if two young couples were having marital problems??
shouldnt he advice and then sort it out??
but no,he used his old tricks of revelations,and took the young man's wife, it is doubly devilish,when one now realises that the said guy is supposedly his step son, ifrom what you have written on here and past comments,its obvious that you are in your fourties at least,so i am sure friends and families would have brough marital squabbles to you for mediation,how many of these wives have you married or how many of these gfs have you slept with and taken as your own?
that is what your prophet did,rather than saying the truth of how shameful it is,you r here defening it

uplawal:
i miss my Alfa greatly

how many times will i warn you to join your other womenfolk at the back,didnt you read the hadiths i posted showing you are lower than us men??
@olabowale
i have been away looking for my daily or weekly bread,was looking foward to a more detailed retort,but as usual,you r recycling the same old dogma,albeit in different forms,i cant get at the quotes because it has gone past the page where your replies are,but i will try my best.
1.it is laughable for you to compare jesus christ telling his disciples to buy swords and killing the fig tree with mohammad murdering innocent women,children,men e.t.c however it is giving me another insight into how an average muslim man thinks

2.i will not allow you to rubbish my varied readings and research,so i respectfully decline to repost for the upteenth time the very same quranic verses and hadiths on the same subjects,however i will tell you this for free,
i want to give just one examples of his many negative vices,

a.mohammad was the king of contradictions,and i have proven this for everyone to read by his various double speaks,

he asked you to allow christians and jews to practise their religion,and then turned around to tell you ppl to kill them without exception,in english language that is contradiction.

in medina he raided and robbed innocent traders and then manufactured a convenient revelation, that is a morally reprehensible thing to do

i also reminded you of the poet and clan leader he had assasinated,he even had to pay blood money in compensation to the family of the slain,go and check it out he did.

he was a coward,and only took all his supposedly brave actions surrounded by bloodthirsty renegades and outlaws he managed to gather together

AGAIN,he married aisha at the age of 6 years old,like i told you before,the reason you would not agree on the age,is because it is a really shameful thing for a supposed prophet to do ehnce your difficulty in accepting it,so you r trying to accept the lesser of the two evils,smart move!

olabowale:
If my mother and others in my life are not evidential enough, I am sure the Africans who are converting to Christianity do not do it for you. But wait a minute, I know that Americans, Whites, Spanish, others and Blacks, who are muslims and more are on the way must amount to something. No? Then how about the European whites? You must have seen some in UK! NO? Then look hard man. Stop selling a dead issue. Your father is a Hotelier in Nigeria. He is a Yoruba man and claiming that you have another father, should upset everyone. I know if Lai or Dunwo were to come up on me to announce another father somewhere, I will have to sue their Mom for not telling them who is daddy, with all the look alive and no possibility of another man getting to her, in the days! Lol. My mother was a better Christian in the days that any Christianity you will ever attain, even if you become a 10 times born again. Proof; to have been my father's wife and she did not convert was a major fit, with the fact that she raised children, kind enough to make my Ramadan meals. She cooked and eat the pork, like good Christians, and cooked the Frijole, I think every "good Friday!" But by Allah, am happy that she left Christianity and my responsibility is to shower her the more with the best a child can do for a mother!

well,unless you are being naive and burrying your head in the proverbial sand,even the dead know that pentecostal christians are taking over west africa and rapidly expanding to other parts of africa,including esthwhile islamic strongholds like indonesia,malaysia e.t.c
either in uk or the us and elswhere,you can actually count the number of converts to islam,they are that few compared to the number of muslims converting to christianity,you live in america,so i shouldnt be telling you about the mighty churches pentecostal pastors are building every day, the joel osteens,creflo dollas,e.t.c how many mega mosques are in the whole of america compared to the pentecostal churches?
your mother was an old school go to church sunday sunday christian,tell her to show you where it says in the bible that "your righteousness is but a filthy rag in my sight"
im sorry to say your mum was only a righteous christian,not born again
[quote author=olabowale link=topic=321215.msg4655723#msg4655723 date=1)I had met many born again, including Nuns; both white and black who are now Muslim; Sheikh Yusuf Estes is one of them. He is the operator of www.Islamtoday.com!

[/quote]so?evangelist shitta is a muslim convert too,pastor hamzat is another one and they are both massively annointed men of GOD winning souls for the kingdom,so whats your point

olabowale:
Should there be an interpretation at all, from the Bible? Okay let me test your knowledge: Interprete these two sets of verses and show me what each set really means: Mark 12 verse 29: Hear yea oh Israel, your God and my God is but One Lord. The other is I and my father are One. These two are reported to come from the lips of Jeus, yet completely 180 degrees from each other. The other is from Act which says Jesus your servant who You sent and the other was the there are three that bear witness in heaven, father son and ghost. Now, tell me the interpretations.

if you dont understand these verses,in spite of the varied and lenghty explanations that have been posted on this forum explaining it in details,then it shows your depht of comprehension of biblical insights, from my own understanding,these verses have actually proven that which jesus christ meant without any ambiguity,that is why i am always saying to you that the bible reading is different from studying

[quote author=olabowale link=topic=321215.msg4655723#msg4655723 date=1254508261]I thought the Governor of Lagos state is cleaning up Lagos, and who appointed Jesus to chase out the moey exchangers? Lol. The crucifixion indicated differently; he did not grin and bear it, since he cried out; Eloi, Eloi, and not my father my father, a complete proof his postion regardless of what you say about the situation! Did Muhammad (AS) suffer less than anyone in history? hardly and remember you called him a "killer, a warmonger, etc?" Would a man like that be such a person who ran away and yet you have said that the arabs are warmongers. No? See in the long run Muhammad (AS) as his bold followers prevailed. Thats strategem of war. And kindness of Muhammad remained when people urinated in the mosque, in Madina where Muhammad (AS) was not a weakling but a very strong leader! I already entered the story in an explanation, and you can research it and compared it the best situation of any man you can imagine!

well if that is in your quran,i wouldnt be suprised,especially with all the strange stuffs going on in the book,abeg shopw me where tinubu is in the quran o, i dont doubt you for a second ,mohammed never suffered thats the point,and i repeat he was a sexual deviant,kblood thirsty killer,betrayer extra ordinare,a prophet sending hired killers to kill an individual for satirizing him prophet indeed!!i have done enuff research,and my position about him has not changed he is no better than the likes of tompolo and other millitants,in fact they are better than him,because they are actually fighting a worthy course and never killed innocents

olabowale:
In my days, Yinka Rose was probably the only homosexuals that i know in Yorubaland! Today, I have been told there are many in my yorubaland, with all the pretty iyabos and yemisis around without "husbands"! Can you believe that? Even igbo men are now into it, a people who known here in the USA to be "to the last penny spender." We must never forget that middle east is ingabitted by Muslims, Christians, Jews and others. So the homosexuality in middle east can even be expected rightly or wrongly on the Muslims, but I guarantee you, the Christians and Jews are not without their proportionate share. More over, a person can be accused wrongly, and I have been accused here on Nairaland. Alhamdulillah I love Islam enough to ignore it and not show that I could never be it to the speaker; seeing is always believing!

yes but predominantly muslim, muslim run government,islamic state,laws e.t.c

olabowale:
Finally all the slapping you cant tell me that you will ignore a huge wrestler and foolishly turn the other cheek. If you loose your hearing or get damaged by the hand of this man hitting your face. The rest of your being better than Jesus is not true; Jesus did not forgive the other thief on the cross who offended him. Jesus did not forgive, pray, or love any of his enemies; The Money changers, the betrayer, thethief on the cross, and definitely the tree he killed! You must be a better person than Jesus, based on your stella quality!

typical,did jesus behead them l;ike mohammed did??the cheek of it comparing two extremes lol
you might call us fools and mumu,but that is what christianity is,go and check how the disciples died,they died as martyrs stoned,burnt e.t.c for their faith, look at the north where christians are being killed and churches burnt,you dont hear of our reprisals because our own religion doesnt teach us retaliation like the muslims and quranic injunction

olabowale:
@Godson2009: #351 on: September 30, 2009, 03:37 PM » Your education should have let you know that there are Surahs in the Quran that speak about women and their equalities with men. Let me show you one: The Surah that is titled "The woman who argued or dialogue as in speaking out her mind" another is the woman who asked for "divorce" There is only one place that Allah gave information about the man and the woman, because He speaks about their physical strength well known among mankind that man is normally stronger than women. The responsibility of belief lies squarely on the shoulders of each gender 100% irrespective of the other gender! Finally some of the scholars of Islam were Women, and we still have women scholarship in Islam, today. So many confidants of the prophet (AS) were his women companions (RA), as much as the men companions (RA). The first to spend on Islam was a woman (Khadihah (RA)), and the first to be killed for Islam while still in Makka were a couple (RA) Am sure you know that couple in Islam means man and woman combo odf Husband and Wife? Uplawal, so nko to wu e o jere. Women are the protector of men from illicit sex, and I know that if my wife prays in front of me, there is no way I will not long for her. I am protected by her for her not praying in front of me, thank Allah for this mercy. Am sure that nudity of pretty women does not affect Godson2009, because he has the blood covering him!
Forget reading your Bible. I had enough of it in High School, and hanging around varieties of Christians. Listen, if you use me to illustrate the position of biblical Jesus, I am honored but not worthy, so let the cup pass over this Olabowale. And referencing that is accurate is very relevant and means alot, considering that it gives identity to the source. The reason Islam stands above all are two folds; Unlike Christianity, the prophet identified with islam practised the same religion as his followers. The second fold is referencing the Judaism, as a tribal religion, while islam is not baed on any tribe. Finally, in grouping the Jews and Christians together in their deficiency vis a vis Islam is that they are man made, and neither Musa nor Isa was a Jew or a Christian respectively, and Muhammad was a Muslim. Each of these three people (AS) prostrated their faces to Allah their Creator! Muslims still do that. There are still Jewish sect and Christian sect which are still prostrating, today, and it is clear to me that Jesus and his disciples didnot clap hand like the sugar hill gang "rap song of the 1970s", and there was no live bands and organ playing either, and this is what we have of Christianity today :dancing "Mukulu mukele, " (Lol). How you develop your doctrine and service protocol, are on you, and Jesus bin Mariam has nothing to do wit it.
You hined your argument on Immaculate conception. What is immaculate conception?Is that enough to call a man GOD? I am asking myself, where is it that Quran denies that Jesus son of Mary was a child without a human father? It is you christians who will on one hand call Mary a virgin but say on the other hand, Joseph the carpenter got her pregnant with two additional sons, and claiming this man as the step father of Jesus, which am assuming that you must know that the Jewish tribal man will have sex with his wife. No? Ten tell me how she is still a virgin!

Islam takes the opposite condition on this. Islam said what is appropriate, but Christianity said the opposite, from their own argument, as if they say a man is now a woman; same situation because what makes a man are different from what makes a woman a woman; each are different and separate!

while totally disregarding most of the above comments,simply because you are recycling the same old same old,which is starting to sound like a broken record to me,by now you should have gotten the drift that i dont give two potatoes about whatever your quran might have said,what matters to me is the quranic verses and the hadiths i have been posting,either prove me a liar that they dont exist if you cant then dont counter with other verses in the same quran, is that supposed to make me change my mind?am i a muslim that i will feel one way or another about verses in the quran??
your quran is like any other daren brown novel to me,and my only motivation for reading is simply for my educational qualifications,and to prove to you and especially others who will come on this forum and read all the comments for and against in making up their mind

olabowale:
@Godson2009: « #323 on: September 26, 2009, 01:26 PM » The gradual weaning is not that of Muhammad (AS), it is of the community. The moment Muhammad became a prophet, then a messenger to mankind, he was making Salah and night salah (Quiyamullail) in Makka, yet salah was not commanded until he arrived in Madina! Proof; you said it yourself that a person threw intestines of animal on him in Kaaba while he was making prostration. By the way he did not kill that person, neither did he kill the poison woman. In Makka you could say that he was weak, but in Madina, he was a leader of a strong community with an army, bold people who can fight, unlike the doubters, the betrayers, and the deniers that you have with the other "son of man", why did he not kill in either case? Godson2009, you make me want to rob salt on your open sore.

i beg to differ sire,if mohammad was trying to wean the people,then he wouldnt make comments that would reflect negatively on his person,for instance he tells believers to tolerate other religions,especially the people of the book,later he tells the same believers to kill the same people of the book,first what is the logic in that?secondly how is that helping the believers in the long run,especially now that he is no longer around?
i know what i am saying,and he definitely killed the person that threw intestines on his back while praying, the long and short is that he contradicted himself finish!
besides that,i have shown you others that he killed,the jewish poet,just for satirizing him in poems,paid for him to be assasinated
also the young singer,

olabowale:
@Godson2009: « #323 on: September 26, 2009, 01:26 PM »
abrogation with its progressive improvement of the people is completely a correction leading to perfection of the people, not incorrection of the abrogator, or the abrogation. Omission is not even in play here, because a Ph. D. education is not what you bring to a child who is only qualified to absorb a primary school education; the same situation with a person who used to drink hard and get stupid, now being told to be sober for the period of prayers, to the end product of no more alcohol, which they finally accepted and did not depart from Islam! Contradiction is when you say something and you later take it back with something completely opposite and worse. In the case of Allah to His Messenger (AS), choose any issue and you will see that the progression to the perfect decision of the Almighty is directionally improving, taking a completely decayed heart full of evil, to a heart good to be emulated.

first of all,responding to your challenge,the satanic verses,and the quranic verses about millitant jihad has answered this particular question.
secondly,have you noticed that this is the third time already that you are going on about

olabowale:
like i pointed out to you in the reply above,there is no logic in your retort defending your prophet,to correct people or your followers,you must have shown them the right way to start with,mohammad pointed them in the wrong way and further complicated issues by mixing things up, check the example of the satanic verses, i presume you know what that is by now??how can you tell your followers that you have come to change idolators,you turn around to speak in favour of their godess,by this time his followers are perplexed,he later turns around again to recant,nullifying the same verse in the quran,if that is your own idea of correction,then i am not suprised that the islamic world is full of bloodshed,confusion,crying and gnashing of teeth while on earth, show me how mohammed corrected progressively in the satanic verses
[quote author=olabowale link=topic=321215.msg4653961#msg4653961 date=1254491872]I will illustrate this by the consumption of alcohol. The arabs used to be drunks. Islam took them to a sober state and can anyone drop a vice that they are so used to? Yes. But just drop it in one shot and never go back to it? No. Impossible. Ths is the reason Allah in His wisdom through Muhammad (AS) that the process of delivery of people from bad behavior are in baby steps, as to Allah sayings; Oh Muhammad, be gentle/patient with them, otherwise your community may disperse away from you. And Allah says "We do not abrogate a verse except that it is replaced with a better verse or one of equal value (applicable to the present condition as the obrogated was relevant to the past condition." The yorubas say says when a child is old enough to have a mallet he will have it, when he is old enough to have a cutlass, he should have it, each is age appropriate! This is similar to the generic saying: cutting yur cloth according to your clothe, and your size!

yes allah and your mohammed in conjunction can say anything to justify  his position,what did you expect him to saymy followers,im sorry i made a series of mistakes??would anyone have taken him any serious after?please open your eyes of understanding sire, if he was sure of himself and his message,then he wouldnt be playing to the gallery so that people will not run away,go and check the bible's account of jesus christ,he did not mince words right from the get go,untill he was cruxified that is the true mark to show you mean business

olabowale:
Where is the smartness in your postulation, above? Allah the Almight reveal messages in Quran to Muhammad (AS), a human being so that other human beings, "ordinary men and women" can follow it, elevating their humanity by these. While these people used to drink, and Muhammad (AS) did not, how do you get them to be like Muhammad (AS), to drop drinking and finally emerged sober and they were the standard for generations of Muslims to follow. Until you can proof that the abrogation did not improve the Muslims, then your argument falls flat. Something about me for example; though I have never drank nor smoked, but I consider myself as a born smoker, at list the cigar or tobacco, in a pipe type. It fits my personality. But because Islam frowns against this thing that could lead to what I will say as "killing me softly" killer, I do not even try it, but developed hatred for it, smell and all! How; I wean myself from it, because I think that it may be my demise in the long run, since I have an older brother who I see what cigarette turned him to as a not fully healthy man!

first of all,have you noticed that this is the 3rd time you are going on about a particular abrogation which happened to favour your mohammad i.e drinking and what not?? why dont you give us series of example,secondly in responding directly to your challenge,the satanic verses and the one where mohammad told you his followers to tolerate other religions namely the jews and christians,now turning around later to tell you to kill and disfigure them is not doing any favours to the folowers of islam,who have been blowing themselves up in thousands in the mistaken believe that 72 virgins are waitingfor them in hell

olabowale:
While Muhammad did not have to be weaned from sexual promiscouity, or drunkenness, or other vices, that the others had to be detox from, in a proverbial "12 Steps", can you see that it is therefore absolute wisdom that te Quran gave them the easiest way out to leave those vices? I personally can relate to this process in my own life; be it in my dawah or relationship with anyone at all. What a person loves, it you wanna stop them from doing it, it has to be in baby step process, and therefore it is patience you must exercise, and feed him or her as appropriate. When you have a baby, the first thing the mother does is put the breast against the babies lips, whereby he is coasted to opening and feed from it. In time it becomes something that she recognised. After few months, he is introduced to other foods, water, and juices. Before long, some semi hard food, mash potatoes, or purees of fruits and others are good example. Finally he eats hard food whereby mom's milk is not important anymore. I bet if you are asked to suckle milk from momnow, or at 5, you would have said no then and definitely no, now. Right? The muslims, and not Muhammad were treated like that; leaving evil of their tribes in a baby steps processs, and moving towards the purity of goodness; Islam, as appropriate.

mohammad did not have to be weaned because he was above the law,and he did not want to be weaned,who dared to suggest that to him,with the kind of people he surrounded himself with??his exploits both sexually,his raids e.t.c has more than given us a potrait of the kind of man he was

olabowale:
Few years ago, I met a new muslim who I would not have dicussed women, exual relationship with his girlfriend then, except that he mentioned that he had a girlfriend, she has not known that he was a muslim yet, while he has became aone for say 3 weeks. I had to tell him that Islam does not allow the free sex, and anything goes that happens with other religion, he being Christian before the reversion. Iman had entered his heart enough, since he chose the religion freewill. He accepted my explanation, not telling him to throw the woman out, since i am certain that he must have love for her, but to tell her his new religion, and tell her what the religion speaks about when it comes to sex! Surprising enough, this 21 or2 years old man told his 20 year old girlfriend, who was hindu, and she became a muslim, the following day, and of course she married him. Thank God, Allah the Almighty, who made them accept Islam and they are still together, probably with Children now. They moved to Virginia, and the incident was 2002, after 911!

ANDyou met a guy that converted to islam and later his wife??/r u kidding,do you want me to start telling you all these i have met,bith in church,fellowship that converted from islam to christianity?
free sex is incolcated in your religion,by virture of the fact that your forebearers indulged in such,mohammed and his folowers indulged in free sex,and this is documented

olabowale:
By the way, I was just listening to news where a family adoted monkeys and call them their daughters. I say to myself, this is an action of the personal desire of these "parents" with "baby monkeys!"

Now transfer that to huma to human relationship! Same as in personal desire of man, the truth is that they do not have "blood relationship!", and it is the blood relationship that can stop people from being sexually involved, or actually where true family relationship can not be doubted. A young man was proposing to his step sister the other day, a thing that will be accepted by people who have wisdom, while his proposal to his blood sister, who was raised separately from him to the point that you will say that they are completely strangers to each other, will definitely be frowned upon for the simple fact that they do have the same blood!

i really cant get head nor tail of this comment![/quote]

babaearly:
Abuzola did i admit it? no! When i say you are a fool nod and say yes.

olabowale:
I grin, then shake by head. Please show me the verses where people of the Books; Jews and Christians be singled out to be killed of have their fingertips cut off? This is the M. O. of the enemies of Islam; talking emptiness and no subsatnce. I will love to see how you will proof the validity of your allegations.

i dont have time for stories anymore,il give it to you straight from now on,
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment. (8:12-13)

i said christians,jews and polytheists,read my comments again and stop trying to confuse issues, now that i have given you proof,im waiting fr my own proof too of 80-100 million muslims in china amongst all the other proofs im waiting for

olabowale:
The Ifa worshippers, and others in Yorubaland, eat Kolanut, drink water. Is there anything in Christianity where they drink water? Now tell me the idolatry that Islam has, when before they started out by disagreeing with idolatry, the very reason the whole of Quraishi of Makka was angry with him and his supporter! I want you to think heard and show matriculated reasoning about this! Could it have been possible for the people to go against him if he showed a sincilla of sign of idolatry? You must be a strange man, unable to be honest in dialoque.

no it doesnt,even christians eat kolanut,however the idolatory of islam is
1.relying on the moon and stars for when to start fasting e.t.c not stopping at that,you proudly display the moon and stars on your mosque
2.bowing down not only in the direction of an image(kaabah) but saving up for a lifetime,just to go to mecca,to actually go and perform pagan rituals of throwing stones at an image,bowing down to it e.t.c
3.animal sacrifice, wonder what that has to do with prayers
4.performing ritual like activities before praying, washing hands feet, e.t.c

there are still more,

,by the way what did they steal from him??

olabowale:
« #369 on: Today at 06:04:16 PM » Earlier you said Yemeni,until I corrected you! Fela said enu opuro ki seje. The lagos slang in my days is oje marina fese gungo koma seje! How can you be believed?
You lie by the dozens. Raiding, maybe you need to look into your Bible and you will see raides into the communities of Canninites, Jebusites, Hittatites, the people of Jericho and Jerusalemby the Children of Israel who holds your salvation, and Jesus your love, the servant of God, whom He sent was from them! It is human nature to want to take back your stolen or confisticated properties. I dont blame those who will demand their rights back. I dislike Awolowo, the same way my father disliked him and I intensified my dislike for him when in 1973, in family meeting, my older siblings showed proof that Awolowo by eminent domain for the Old Western region took for 5 shillings per hectare large among of land from my father (ra), yet we never got paid, a penny! I am bent even right now, many decades after the fact to get the land back, or sue the estate of Awolowo for his thiefery! How then do you think people, a group who are now powerful not demand for their things back?


You said your father owns a hotel or many. If somebody or group of people snatch it/them from your family, you will be a disgrace not to dislike the "stealing of it" from your heritage! Thats the condition of people. The way people work! Am steal waiting for your proof of the killing, the stealing from the traders, except if you are just just fighting empty for Jesus, who really does not care for you, since you desert his religion and you are not from his nations of children of Israel.

have you even been reading my replies to you at all?because there is no indication of such in your replies, you said it was not yemeni traders going to mecca,and i stood by my comments even expanciating on the circumstances surrounding it,and then going into the battle of badr just so that you understand i know the difference,so what are you on about??

show me where prophets in the bible refused to do an honest days job,and instead decided to go all out raiding innocent traders without any just cause,and then using a weak justification of earlier persecution of these trader's businee partners,how lame an excuse ,

it might be human nature to want to recover stolen properties,but like i said before and i repeat,NOBODY STOLE MOHAMMAD'S PROPERTIES,the only reason for his raiding is simply layziness and the criminal tendencies inherent in him,by the way what did they steal from him??more contradictions lol,in the quranic verse i posted for you to read,he asserted that his reason,his only reason for attacking the sucessive traders is because of the meccan's persecution of him and his followers,in another breadth you are here contradicting him again that they stole his properties now who is the alhaji fabu lous like your sister uplawal will say, i laugh in shorthand what proof are you waiting for,how many times will i post the same quranic verses for you oare you bespectacled??maybe agba tinde

taneemrah:
@ Godson2009,
GOD did not make you a Xtian ,Paul and partners in fraud made you one,however my own ALLAH who creates you, who begets nor begotten, who neva sleep, who neva chop or drink, who neva cried to anyone or partner for help in times of crisis, who is living and alive doing wondrous works,healings and deliverance will open your eyes of understanding and bring you to the light,like other xtains who have converted

are you sure your allah is alive??i dont think so,like i told the rest of your brothers he is on an extended lunch break for a couple of hundred years now, by the way where is the healing and deliverance ?you dont have any in islam,the christian annointed men and women of GOD are all around you,allah didnt create me,GOD created you and sent his son to die for you,olabowale,abuzola,uplawal's sins

yes he is still piling the lies upon lies with a weak defence of his prophet
@olabowale
like i wrote in my last comment,lets cut to the chase with the whole rigmarole and enlighten us about these contradictions pointed out to you,i only respond to the comments you address to me,or would you rather i ignored them instead?
dont worry my dissertation was awesome,as for the miracles of mohammad,i have not really had to=ime to check them out as well because i have a life moreover like i also said in one of my comments to you,why should i believe mohammad if he said he performed miracles?the several contradictions which you have called a work of fiction in your comment is enough proof that he couldn possibly perform a miracle if it stood on his nose and he is no more a prophet than osama bin laden.

forget about the rigmarole and answer these simple and direct contradictions with your mohammad,without confusing issues or using style to back out while trying to place me on the offensive

why r you angry now,thank GOD you know i didnt write these verses myself,where is uplawal to read this o?

she was an awesome and annointed woman of GOD

yes now,because i know one of probably used a clone id to start this thread,but ran away when the heat became too much, the criminal is your prophet mohammad,who committed all sorts of atrocities,he would have answered to the law and probably hanged if not for the blood thirsty renegades he surrounded himself with

where were my questions answered?
olabowale and co are yet to,they have only been dancing yayooze round without addressing them

with all due respect to the man simply because he is older than me,mohammed was never a prophet
he didnt indulge in acts that one could ascribe to prophets,he lied,he stole,killed,betrayed those he held truce with,he engaged in all sorts of negative vice,and his quran is full of contradictions,arogations in a confusing mash up with no head nor tail,jesus christ is the son of GOD and what is more,all his prophecies have been coming to pass proving his assertions, in case you did not understand jesus teachings or pretend not to,he only came on earth,briefly in human form,to fullfill the prophecies and also as a living blameless,pure sacrifice for the remission of our sins,sent by GOD the father,i pray that the rest of you muslims will find your way to the path of light,like the tens of thousands of muslims who have and are converting to christianity

olabowale:
The Uniqueness of the Quran is underscored by the fact that at the end the Jigsaw puzzle of revelations of verses and chapters, when completed fit to one another perfectly! Surah Anfal fitting with Surah Tauba. I am asking you to tell me where you find discrepancies, a single one, and all you say is "its not arranged in cronological order of revealed verses and chapters!" Thats not a good reason, because a writer can give you the end of his story, a fiction and begin to fill in the gabs, writing the middle part and ending it up with the beginning! The important thing is that the story makes sense when you read it, and the genius of the writer shows when the book is not edited, or versioned, or reedited and even when in paperback still has everything that the hardback has. Finally, the book that can not be dublicated and has a language of its own and when a person makes a mistake the book stops you, makes you conscious of your mistake and until you correct yourself, if you are intentionally making the mistake, you will be tongue tied!

That book is the Quran, still in the ORIGINAL Language the Fusat accented Arabic!

ill just cut to the chase instead of all this rigmarole we v been having, at the risk of repeating myself for the upteenth time, some of the contradictions are as follows in the quran
1.he admitted that raiding traders was indeed a heinous thing,however,his convenient revelations from his allah,said that he is justified,because the meccans persecuted him and his followers while they were in mecca,first of all these traders were not from mecca,but going to mecca,secondly why steal,maim and kill traders even if they were meccans just because they persecuted you"" not killed you?? explain this
2.he told his followers to leav the people of the book if they were not ready to convert to islam e.t.c later he brought out the sword verses,which abrogated all other cordial verses towards other religions,where he enjoined his followers to kill cut off the fingertips of all unbeleivers e.t.c
3.he supported idolatory and even inserted elements of idolatory in islam which is still prevalent till date,yet he contradicted himself by saying his followers should kill polytheists
please address these first,more to come,

who told you that arabic originated from mohammad??you must be a very good scrabble player o and also totally naive and clueless on so many issues, so because it has been used in writing the quran,you have erroneously attributed it to mohammad??
what language was mohammad's parents speaking before he was born?
what language the the quraysh tribe,the jews e.t.c spoke before he was born?
alhaji,alhaji,alhaji alhaji(you know that popular song)
so you agree mohammad only wrote a book of fiction,and filled in the blank spaces,why are we having this long 12 pages debate then?

olabowale:
Ghazwatu Badr is what you are thinking about, but not Yemeni and it was Makkan Caravan, it was not stealing or highway robbery, but a way for the fisrt war to take place with unprepared just over 300 fasting people to finally standup for their rights! You dont know aything about the wars that the Muslims fought under Muhammad (AS), but you are just pretending to be a scholar on Islam! And as to persecution, what do you think the Money exchangers felt, it not that the felt that they have ben persecuted? I will wait for your response. Buying swords must have a purpose. Please tell me what was the purpose of the purchases as Jesus instructed, since he said earlier, a came with war, not peace?

not ghazwatu badr sire,the battle of badr was the official or unofficial first jihad in a manner of speaking,this was the first decisive battle your prophet and his followers won,which gave them the confidence and the impetus to pursue millitant jihad against unbelievers,this was not immediately after they settled in medina,so you are completely mistaken, my own accounts of yathrib which was the old name medina was known by is the time mohammad and his followers just arrived there from mecca, go and read and dont assume or presume that you know everything islam just because you are a muslim,i know you must be pissed off for my effontery of correcting you,but academic journals,with peer review dont lie , the very first time mohammad and his followers settled in medina,they had no money or means of livelihood,and so started razzia or raiding, for the meccans to be angry to the extent of bringing an army to fight him ,was because he had been doing it for a while untill they v had enough.and the incident i am on about,is that of yemeni traders going to mecca,not meccan traders,you can justify it anyway you want but stealing is stealing if you take what doesnt belong to you by force,and then kill these you took it from, modern day armed robbers too have their reasons for robbing which they can justify,does it make them right?

since when has overturning tables being equivalent to beheadings sire?just answer that??
[quote author=olabowale link=topic=321215.msg4644085#msg4644085 date=1254354268
You just talk, without a sincillar of truth. But then Christianity dont fight, except Crusade and then Armageddon! No? Continue and your secret will blet out of the bag, as Allah Wills it, you Christian man.

[/quote]so you dont know what dar al harb territory means?? by the way the crusades had nothing to do with religion,go and read their stories and how they ended up at the top,and then killed off by the king of france, e.t.c

olabowale:
Jesus didnt use sword per see, but did his followers used it to cut off an ear! And they were ready to use it though even at their perl, except Jesus thought, uhm, they will be killed to nothingness. By the way, go to the post that I made yesterday where I directed you to Muhammad's miracles by Allah! Am sure you are afraid of the truth, yur reason for not referring to all my references!

what references??lol do you know how many people were following jesus at every point in time,i analysed this for you with zacheus the tax collector,in spite of his societal standing who couldnt get near to jesus because of the surging crowd,now imagine the number of crowd,that will not allow a minister in nigeria,to come close to a man of GOD,and you think jesus followers could not overpower a few armed men and religious leaders?you must be naive,did he not tell judas he will betray him?to show you he had fore knowledge yet he took no steps to protect himself,if you read that part of the bible there was a time he was alone and told the other disciples to stay back,is that the action of a scared man who knew he was going to be seized shortly?how many men constantly surrounded mohammad? , i havnt checked,trust me i will even though i am sure it is still part of the fraud contrived to convince the gullibles, let us even assume he did,how come you his followers are not replicating nd repeating his supposed miracles if it is not all lies??

if you ask me the same question,i will answer you by showing you numerous men and women of GOD doing the same miracles jesus did,to show you that it was true?
[quote author=olabowale link=topic=321215.msg4644085#msg4644085 date=1254354268]I have 4 nieces born in the north. My Igbo wife speaks hausa fluently. Its you who is a darn tribalist here. I will survive in the community of Muslims, anywhere on earth. Take that to the bank! I will put my wife in the front with Igbo mainly Catholic people, I guess $Osisi, in her protestants' ways is a minority there just like me!

abegi jare!!tribalism is not enough reasion for retrogression they have brought upon nigeria,but that is for another section(politics)

olabowale:
There is a lot of Muslims in China, over 80 to 100 Million people. You must be a great international politics student! Not! And before Oil, Makka and Madina will always be wealthy and supported by the worldwide body of Muslims. And Petrochemical industries will always be in need of Oil, forget the AUTOMOTIVE usage for a moment! Chemical engeering my friend; Polymers, and more petrochemical usages! As long as there is mankind on earth, the Dua of Ibrahim thats already been accepted will not let Makka Suffer and Madina by extension will not suffer! I have a joke of Jewish people for you; they always blame Moses for not turning just an angle slightly from what he took, they would have became the owners of rich oil fields! You dont know any Jew, if you do, ask him!

can you show me proof of the 80-100 million muslims in china?ill be waiting thanks, before oil,can you show me or educate me on what they had that made them as rich as they are now sire?
again,i repeat,in case you dont know or are being naively ignorant of it,saudi arabia is the backbone of islamic evangelism the world over,if they have a dip in their resources,whicvh is bound to happen the global islamic world will feel it, the likes of uae are getting increasingly liberal due to western influences,of course mecca will not suffer,but the millions of dollars going all over the world to propagate islam will suffer greatly,dont forget while this is going on christians are getting richer,and pushing the gospel further afield,you can see that almost all the great men of GOD have their own private jets now?thats telling you we are pushing our gospels without the help of any country,why dont you muslims try it without saudi arabia?
well,the oil has not greatly helped you,because where most of the saudi oil money goes evangelizing are turning to christianity,places like africa,and the far east,as for the jews take a look at what they have and then compare it to the miserable chicken change of oil money,is saudi arabia richer than america and israel together?thats your answer now add pentecostal christians the wolrd over who will undoubtedly supportt the jews if push comes to shove.

olabowale:
Between you and me, I prostrate my face to One Illah. When I talk to my God, it is One Creator, Al Illah (ALLAH)! You on the other hand, regardless of your "born again" mantra, you kneel to 3 gods; Father on a chair, Jesus on a cross, and a ghost with no name or Identity! When you pray you say to father, oand add son, but never mention ghost, yet you say they are all your gods! No? Now who is the idol worshipper, sncer there is no but One God?

are you sure?because many of you still kill and maim in the name of a mere human being who managed to pull the wool over your eyes,even though he is dead,you still worship the moon and stars which is still over all your mosques,you still use the moon and stars to predict in the advent of computers and satellites showing you are not ready to leave your idolising ways,and you still bow don to an image(tyhe kaabah) you still sacrifice animals to your gods

olabowale:
Am not yanking your chains,and am completely serious. Yanking chain belongs to the days o slavery. But I see you avoiding the Biblical verse "Vengeance is Mine says the Lord," and the info that I gave you concerning the Miracles of Muhammad (AS) by Allah's permission, and am sure you will also ignore the verses and the website that I gave concerning forgives! I know your type man. At least you have the backbone to stand up for you belief, regardless of its defiiency, unlike some Jelly-fish like people! Pele.

if you r not yanking my chain,which actually means kidding me, how come you are inferring that i have not posted several contradictions with proofs on here for you both in form of hadiths and quranic verses?
and i see you avoiding the pertinent questions i have been asking you ever since i joined this thread several years ago,why and how come mohammad was surrounded by so many controversies ,what is with the abrogations and contradictions?why are the women not equal to their male counterparts,i have several questions i have asked begging for answers which you have refused to answer,instead you dance around it and come up with other issues to confuse and run away from it.

you know and i know sire that your islam has more questions than answers,

let us leave everything and concentrate on one assertion,

you said mohammad performed many miracles,for the sake of this assertion let us agree,how come nobody in the islamic world has been able to perform the same miracles ever since he died??

in our bible,jesus christ promised that we will do the same miracles he was doing and more after he left this world,is the prophecy happening now or not?

now,which religion is dead and which is alive? whose god is on an extended lunch break,AND WHOSE GOD IS ALIVE AND PERFORMING?

uplawal:
@godson,are you refering to what your stpaul said to you in the corinthians,pls thats not in the QURAN but its in the Bible,women have right in ISLAM but dnt in your BIBLE,or are you just knowing?

really,its been a while i went to the mosque so maybe things have changed,but let me quickly give you your own size so that you can keep quiet

YUSUFALI: Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases ('s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Al-wise quran 4;11

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.
quran 24;31(i hope you have seen it now uplawal,lower your gaze when i a man am addressing you)me and you no dey for the same category(sings fela) i like this islam o

now here is the greatest bobshell
uplawa!!!!

The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you." (bukhari 2;28)
im sure abuzola will dare not deny the bukhari hadith uplawal,pele o i told you that you don enter am you didnt believe me

Abuzola:
I thank God for making me a muslim

GOD did not make you a muslim,allah mohammad's partner in fraud made you one,however my own GOD who is living and alive doing wondrous works,healings and deliverance will open your eyes of understanding and bring you to the light,like other muslims who have converted

babaearly:
Abuzola did i admit it? no! When i say you are a fool nod and say yes.

olabowale:
I call them all kind of names. But am not a god, you said Jesus was or is, take your pick! I expected people who behaved like me to be human. People who performed miracles to be at least spiritually different from me. If their miracles are from God, as He wishes them to perform for His glory, then they are prophets or messengers. This is different from your Adegboye's miracles, because he chalks his miracles to Jesus, whom I have aready established as a "SERVANT", look at ACTS 4 Verses 25 through 30!

all you did was show me where" them" their people i.e congregation called jesus a servant,if i chalked up the different names people have been called then,we would still be here till tmorrow, some people say "man of GOD" some say "ministers of GOD" some say "servant of GOD" the fact that there are variations in thes names does not change the fact of who they are,moreover jesus christ himself in the bible stated who he was namely the son of GOD,he continues that no one can get to "the father"but through him the son,that ha more than addressed the issue of servant or son,i might decide to see your beard and call you bin laden,some might call you mujahideen,others might call you their muslim brother e.t.c it does not change the fact of who you profess to be,or who you are so saying that you "established"is a very wrong use of the word,and is erroneous at the best,for want of a milder word,so we are both agreed that christian men of GOD or servant of GOD,do healings and miracles in jesus name then?we r getting somewhere

olabowale:
Now if Muhammad (AS) wa vindictive, then no Jew would have existed with their head on their shoulders when they were being told to leave Madina, into exiles because of their treacherous acts against the already established "COVENANT" among all the ctizenry of Madina. I wonder how the woman who poisoned him had her head on her shoulders? I wonder how the Makkans did not die enmasse? I wonder how the Taif people wre not slaughtere with the Biggest slaughter Mankind ever to have been known?

well mohammad actually killed the jews,what did he do to the Bani Qaynuqa?he spared them due to pleadings from a neighbouring arab leader what was their offence,they refused to accept him as a prophet, same thing still happening with muslims today.

olabowale:
same thing to the bani nadir jews,for the same reason, in his un bridled violent rage,he ordered the assasination of their leader kab ibn ashraf and even told the killers it would be ok to lie in order to gain the confidence of their victim Bukhari, 5:59:369,did followers of mohammad not kill some men from the tribe of amir? and what did he eventually do to the bani nadir even though they had been forced to accept islam?
he sacked the village nevertheless and shared their property amongst himself and his followers, that is the kind of prophet you people worship.
not finished with that,he faced bani quraiza and your hadith says it all after they have surrendered, When the tribe of Bani Quraiza was ready to accept Sad's judgment, Allah's Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah's Apostle said (to the Ansar), "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah's Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah." (Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:280), theres still more if you want
[quote author=olabowale link=topic=321215.msg4643226#msg4643226 date=1254339878]The fact that mild manered Abu Bakr (RA) fought the muslims who refused to pay Zakat shows that whoever is fought or killed were not because of their not being Muslims, or persnal hatred of Muhammad, because they do evil, crime against humanity or community, via Sharia, if they are muslims, or if they are not what the community already agreed upon to keep peace and decency!


And Jesus called people vipers, leeches, adulterous generations, evil generation, and from the book of Timothy, I know Jesus was not Timothy, we see "INFIDEL" written in the Bible, and that you will not see in Arabic Quran!

yes,but he never called people vile dogs of the lowest order,apes and pigs,pls show me where infidel was written so i can learn sire??

olabowale:
And the prophets before Muhammad did exactly that with all who do not believe in their ministry? Now, so that you are proven wrong here and now; I will remain a Muslim, inshaAllah, shall I from your Christian eyes destined for Paradise? What about the Jews, and the polytheists, are we all going to Christian paradise if we die in our religions? Without peaching because it will not work here, if we are all good people, doers of good things, believing in One God, and refusing like I do, and Jews do that Jesus is not God, and God does not have any child, what happened? I know the Jews are boastful about killing your god, since you must have participated in your youth dragging the effigee of Judas iscariot all over your naighborhood at easter!

its simple and straightfoward he said "except a man be born again,they shall not enter the kingdom of GOD,secondly what you are reffering to as doing good is just righteousness which he said is like a filthy rag before his eyes

olabowale:
Jesus also used dog for a whole nation, because they are not from the 12 nations of the children of Israel! Whats your point here: proofing that Muhammad is not a prophett or that Jesus is god? Either way you lose!

no sire im a winner man,look at my religion and yours and tell me which one has the fire and whose GOD is alive and performing,then we can deduce who wins and lose, GOD THE FATHER,GOD THE SON AND GOD THE HOLY GHOST,mohammad is an ordinary man who managed to hoodwink gullible people of his generation,like any religion that stands apart from the norm,it has managed to grow over the years,now the laws of diminishing returns is working against the religion, look at scientology,is it not growing,even satanists are growing

I am happy that Muhammad iwas like every prophet that I am going to mention here, so count them to see that Myhammad (AS) was in good company, except they are not prophets or good people. You will have to argue this out here. Noah made sure that the evil people died in the flood that was the biggest flood known to man. Ibrahim made sure the Idols of his family and people were uttherly destroyed. Moses made sure that Pharaoh and his army met their doom. David made sure that the killing filed was experienced by Goliat. May Allah less each of them Amin. Jesus tried in the same way and please deny it if you can; as a young man, he turned over the table of the exchangers, then killed as in drowning pigs, while he was doing a good, I will assume you will accept the drowning of the pig was not that good, since you eat the possessed animal? Jesus called people fools after he said dont call people fools and that will earn you the ticket to hell, and to my surprise the peaceful man, your god asked his companion to buy swords, which actually is in the conformity of "I come not to bring peace but war!" Now give "WAR" here a good spin. I wanna see how you will do in your effort![/quote]i dont have to do anything really because this particular comment has shown you up and the pathetic way you are hanging on to your stance at the fingertips,i will tell you one single thing with trumps all these is mohammed being a trickster,like i have adduced in the hadith up there,we all know he was blood thirssty and he betrayed and broke numerous truce,rather than proving that he was all that,you muslims have your job cut out proving that he was indeed a prophet and of high moral standing

olabowale:
There is no glass house here, sincewhat I have said is the truth. You have three gods, and your human god calleded people fools, after he had escoriated people never to say that that the sayer will end up in hell!

pathetic when you start repeating the same things over and over,while i am conducting my research bringing up new facts

Abuzola:
@godson- stop making fool of urself, what your pastor is doing is unlawful

its unlawful?do you listen to yourself or read your own comments sometimes?? how is it unlawful o festus keyamo

uplawal:
gbam!

seems you being a new convert has not allowed you to know your rightful place,women are meant to keep quiet when men are talking,didnt abuzola and olabowale tell you that women dont have a voice in islam? dont think you r still in redeemed o hold your mouth fe fe feem

olabowale:
@Godson2009: « #342 on: Today at 12:32:49 AM » Paddy Adenuga will be damned by his father, if his announcement is going to make them lose say 1 Billion USD! Mike will never stand for that and if he is the Ijebu man that people have spoken about in my hearing! Even his son will never be allowed by the general manager to make an unproittable announcement, and you will see how the Ijebu think comes out of Mike's body and one time may disgrace or even tell Paddy and his mother to get out of his life for ever! You dont know that Ijebu man. In america, his condition was told to me how he will not leave a penny on the table, quick to short change his senior officers until one of them whose wife is a lawyer and a friend of my younger cousin to him to Awujale for decision. Both are Christians and Sikiru is ia muslim and in the age range of some of my older brothers, much much younger than my father's first child!

@the bolded
exactly,even jesus christ has limitations ONLY WITH HIS FATHER GOD,not with us mere human beings, that is why the bible did not tell us that he shared the heavenly throne with his father GOD,it said,he sat on the side as the second in command,so like you have rightly said,while paddy adenuga will not spend like 1 BILLION DOLLARS he certainly wields enormous powers in his father's companies by virture of the fact that he is paddy adenuga first son,that is the point of the triune, he can get to a party and see a hot girl or if he is into spraying money for musicians and they will hail him as globacom,because he is part and parcel of the man

And when Adegboye dies, if he dies on Christianity and not on Islam, I swear by Allah the Creator that he will have a free-pass to Hell fire! And those of mankind who say that they are eager for death and prescribed their own way of dying, if it happens like they say, it is not because they are God, or een good, because Allah may just grant them their wish, either to disgrace them, which they only will see as their soul is being removed from their body by the angel of death. It always amazes me when a disbeliever in Oneness of God is reported to "have died in peace." Do the speakers have seen what the angel of death was doing to each of them? There is no peaceful death for disbelievers, even if she/he dies in the best bedding!

[/quote]if you are already swearing,which is a sin according to my bible anyway,then i am trully sorry for you sir,because that man s place in heaven is secured i am praying and hopint to get to that level of convenant partnering with my GOD,where my heaven is assured,like i have said to you,while your own allah went to sleep or is even burning in hell fire now with mohammad for causing many people to sin like you and several others pastor adeboye is spreading the annointing,look at how many souls have converted to christianity through him,how many muslims was your allah on lunch break when they were getting their healings and miracles in the churches? he can boldly and confidently say how he will join the lord,because he is on that level with GOD,moses was on that level with GOD as well because he saw GOD and the only person who did,abraham was on that level too,joshua too, that is why these ppl are called covenant partners with GOD,he talkes to them normally and tells them what to do daily

Moses ran from Egypt to Median. Jesus and his parents ran to Egypt. If he had ran the second time, the hanging, according to you would have happend. This would not have happened is my own conclusion, so that I bring human wisdom to the table. Moses did not lack human wisdom, and neither was Muhammad (AS to all of them)! Please dont sell me a bill of goods because it is not okay to arrogantly stand in front of death and kill yourself. The same reason I amd many muslims complain on about the suicide bombers!
[quote]

moses was not a confirmed prophet when he ran,he was still a prince of egypt who was just new in service to the lord,cant be compared to mohammad a supposedly established prophet,with followers, remember the same moses went back to egypt,not with men and arms,weapons but with only aaron and his staff,he would have gobne back alone if not for his stutter and the lord sent aaron to speak on his behalf,when jesus was of age,show me where he ever ran like a scared chicken namely mohammad,running away and calling it hijra, why didint he wait if he was sure he was with allah?surely allah would have protected his prophet from harm?unless allah was on lunch break like he has been the past how many years lol

olabowale:
@Godson2009: « #344 on: Today at 01:55:29 AM » He said those who say that will go to hell. Tell me if ths is true and when he says it if that will not apply here and why?

show me the bible verse sire,also you did not answer my assertion,i said i prefer being called a fool if i deserve to be,than being summarily beheaded by a violent and vindictive leader(mohammad)

olabowale:
"and" a conjuction part of a sentence, denotes there are more than one thing. How can two be one? How can more than one be one? You in a million years can never be in the body of your father, or your younger or older brother or your beloved cousin, except that you are simply you, alone, unique in that respect as you! Try to pass for your twin brother with his wife and you you will "gbo dende oro!"

you are so good at analogies,yet when you are given one,you intentionally feign ignorance or indifference, in african tradition do you ealise that a first son is like part of the father??go and ask about the ibo tradition,if the father dies,the first son inherits everything,he automatically owns the family house even if his mother is alive, he is more like a second daddy or "daddy inside daddy"because they are one, for you to adequately understand,check out the importance of a first born and then son,to any father especially if they look alike,and he is obedient,kind gentle  everything his father expects, same thing as the hausas,where the first son is almost revered,the mother of the first son addresses and takes care of the first son same as she would the father.
#

olabowale:
@Godson2009: « #344 on: Today at 01:55:29 AM »

Bad conditioning and you know Jesus is not God, since Eloi came from his mouth and that Eloi did not die as you claim that Jesus died, when he said it is finished before he gave up the ghost!

again i have tried my utmost to explain this,its not my fault if you cant comprehend,either knowingly or unknowingly

olabowale:
Even your cousin , your father's nephew, the son of his twin brother will serve the same purpose, in every respect, if your father is not the discriminating type. But neither you nor yor cousin will pass the muster when it comes to your father's true responsibilities, in the house with the Mrs., or with you the children since you will never be able to get into his account and issue a school fees check to "Oxfort University", where I think you are on your Doctoral research! And if you make a mistake to think your father's driver will bake in the sun while you go inside at your girlfriend's house to perform illicit sex, you will shocked that he will tell you to get out of his face, and your father will support him that you are completely wrong!

again,i will refer back to the above comment about first sons and their importance to parents, if you check first city merchant bank,otunba subomi balogun installed his son,they both make decisions and run it,at times he makes important decisions on his father's behalf,its as if the father is still running the bak
2.kola abiola even before his father died same thing,even his father's wives some couldnt question his authority even though being officially his step mum
3.ibrahim babangida i could go on and on,a true first son whom the father loves,will do anything even make decisions on behalf of the father,paddy adenuga sacks old men older than his father who are high management without his father being there,they can only grumble not protest because they know what he says is same as his father
the last example is recent;go and google why mohamma ghadaffi's fourth son,was briefly locked up because he was said to have beaten his house help,you know what ghadaffi did?
he placed a freeze on bu libya's business with swiss,
ask they d didnt lock mohamma ghadaffi up personali but his son?
yes,but his son is a personification a representative of his father,in swiss at that time,so it is the same as disrespecting and locking mohammar ghadaffi up

olabowale:
Acts 4 Verses 25 through 30! Now swallow it and I pray it wakes you up to get away from worshipping a SERVANT! Amin.

At least we agreed on something, except that there is only One God, Allah and from the mouth of Jesus he said Eloi, not Jehovah, not Yahweh. But I am correct here and you know that when push comes to shove, you will turn to 1 God, while all day you shout Trinity, Trinity, Triniiiiiity!

of course there is only one GOD,and he has a son who is GOD the son,who assists him and is seated by his side and GOD the holy spirit,who is like the commander on earth directs our thoughs e.t.c you read the same acts 4;24 who were the "they"
it was neither peter nor john but "their people"show me where epter and john called jesus a servant

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=267817.msg4640145#msg4640145 date=1254315361]Emm which leaders?
Is it the same OBJ who he was best pals and spiritual father to?[/quote]your nigerian political leaders who you r all too scared to face up to,but transfer your agression to men of GOD and churched doing their own thing.
good pals??arent we stretching the truth a bit too far to achieve our objectives here?no man or woman of GOD,will tell a sinner to go away from him,if pastor adeboye isolates himself from sinners,who then will he preach to,secondly if he gives obj a word of advice and he refuses to listen what should he have done?smack him over the head?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=267817.msg4640145#msg4640145 date=1254315361]Or Yar'adua who was rigged into power yet the holy pastor was the first to go conduct thanksgiving service for the "new" government?[/quote]what has this got to do with pastor adeboye or redeemed
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=267817.msg4640145#msg4640145 date=1254315361]Howabout the unconstitutional and illegal presidential import waiver granted to the G.O by OBJ because they are friends?[/quote]realli?and you r soo sure of this?why dont you publicly show us the proof sire?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=267817.msg4640145#msg4640145 date=1254315361]Is that how jesus and prophets like elijah woulda behaved to such corrupt politicians?[/quote]how exactly did jesus behave towards sinners?dude you need to read your bible,because jesus christ mixed with sinners of all kinds,tax collectors,prostitutes e.t.c
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=267817.msg4640145#msg4640145 date=1254315361]Face it, your retarded G.O is part of our problem.Oh, but the man would SHOUT each time he's asking for donations, right?[/quote]with the amount of cursing you have been doing,its obvious there are other issues,apart from this bothering you,and ill suggest you sort it out first, first g.o doesnt need to shout for offerings because the only money he can get out of it is his salary,second like i wrote in my earlier comment,he makes money independednt of church funds through his annointing and GOD given brain, he is a professor of mathematics applying his brilliance to delivering the word which people are buying into,part of which problem exactly?your country will be 49 years old tmorrow,remove that from g.o's age
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=267817.msg4640145#msg4640145 date=1254315361]He won't fail to make noise when he opens an RCCG branch in Texas. He shouts when he's written a totally useless book and urge members to buy. He buys a jet SHOUT. Orders four more jets we won't hear word. . . .But when it comes to charity he's totally secretive. . . . Do you think people are stupid?[/quote]why should he make a noise at the opening of a branch,when it is on record,that any church opening or function g.o goes to,he donates the highest,you wouldnt know all this simply because by nature he is not a big talker,the books might be useless to you,but we the ones buying it are not complaining so why are you trying to burst a vein sire?take it easy can you see you r contradicting yourself?why would he shout if he buys a jet,when the complaint all along has been that he didnt say anything about the jet in question untilla statement was released?and then do the biblical thing by keeping quiet about his charities, can you tsee the absurdity of your argument?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=267817.msg4640145#msg4640145 date=1254315361]Let me tell you, you do not need to make noise when you're massively into charity. . . YOUR WORKS WILL SPEAK LOUDEST FOR YOU.
I'm still waiting for a faint whisper from daddy GOat.
CAN YOU PROVIDE SOURCES PLEASE?[/quote]true,and there was nowhere he made a noise as you put it,i mentioned charities here in reply to another comment so what are you on about? first off i or he doesnt need to convince you as that wouldnt change the size of meat on my rice today,neither will it add or subtract anything from g.o,you are entitled to tyour believes and i am not really bothered if you believe he is into charitable works or not,however being the last word i will say on the issue of the charities,we were given fliers with the details on it,which i have filled and returned back
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=267817.msg4640145#msg4640145 date=1254315361]Give us location and addresses of these facilities we might know people who need help. Funny thing he knows how to collect but finds it difficult to give.[/quote]next you will tell me to get the keys and personally take you to the locations lol check my comment above

[/quote]He prefers to build mega expensive universities with poor peoples money yet its totally beyond their reach. Spend 7bn on a church auditorium in the midst of poverty and suffering yet still charge the poor people N20 each time they wanna use the toilet.

and the alternative would have been for the church not to have built a university??
the alternative would have been for the church to pay for the mistakes both past and continuous the nigerian leaders continue to inflict on its citizens?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=267817.msg4640145#msg4640145 date=1254315361]Four jets are on the way, no prizes for guessing who's footing the bill.

yes,and ill really advice you not to be bothered as long as your own funds are not included,and we the members of sound mind and body,eyes wide open are not complaining,rather ill advice you to either go to the politics section and vent your anger and frustrations as to how the leaders keep on raping the country with impunity.the redeemed church last i checked is a private religious organisation duly registered by the government,hence have a right to conduct their business the way they like without outside interference, the likes of oral robers,k hagin and co do what they/their ministeries need to do,and spend their money in their own order of priorities not attempting to overhaul the failing parts of the american welfare areas,the best a man of GOD can do,is to offer prayers,and to do his own bit for the betterment of the country in form of charities and leave the rest

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=267817.msg4639936#msg4639936 date=1254313531]Shut up!
Who started the allegations against TB joshua if not pentecostal pastors and PFN of which your beloveth pastor adeboye is a member. Even till today PFN refuse to recognise pastor joshua as christian.[/quote]whoever you are,before i respond to your retorts,ill advice you to speak or address comments to me like an adult,my faith will not allow me to respond to you appropriately but if you want me to answer questions thrown at me,then please address me like i would you,the fact that this is an online forum doesnt give you the lincense to address people without decorum
to address the above,i have said it before that,pastor adeboye to my knowledge has never stood before the pulpit,and tell the whole of redeemed not to believe pastor tb joshua,secondly i read the interview and what pastor adeboye said was that he will minister in pastor tb joshua's church only after they have both sat down together,opened some portions of the bible,and clarified certain issues therein,he has never been the president of pfn pastor ayo oritsejafor is,and im sure you r not expecting pastor adeboye to tell him what to do?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=267817.msg4639936#msg4639936 date=1254313531]Dumb nigerians were only towing the lines of ther criminal pastors.With this I wonder if you're educated at all.
How else does pastors like Adeboye make money if not from tithes, offerings and donations?
Does he have any other job?[/quote]like i said earlier,pls endeavour not to throw insults my way again sire,thanks as to this question yes there are other ways of making money except from tithes and offerings and donations.

in case you r not aware,every single donation which goes into the church coffers has to go through a process before a penny is withdrawn,pastor adeboye can propose with the advice of the relevant people projects that need being executed,and the church body will vote on it and make a decision, im sure you r not aware that the redeemed church does not belong to pastor adeboye?like deeper life to pastor kumuyi or winners to oyedepo, there are really old people who were there at the founding who still chair the governing boards and make decisions.
some of the ways he makes his money are
1.if pastor adeboye writes a book today,at least 70/80% of redeemed both in nigeria and abroad will buy a congregation of more than 5 million and counting figure out an idea of how much will accrue to him personally,independet of the church and he has done several books

2.he goes on speaking engagements,where they will give him honorarium,level of area pastors in redeemed get given amounts up to 1/2 million naira for honorarium depending on how big the church is use that to imagine how much pastor adeboye will be given?it is pertinent to note that honorarium is not by force,it is monies given to visiting men of GOD in appreciation of their coming ,if they are not given,they do not have a right to ask,in fact they dare not ask
3.his personal tapes and cds which are in hundreds are still selling like anything
now imagine these who are not members of redeemed and calculate and factor the figures into 1-3

he prays for eminent business ppl who bless him financially both in nigeria and especially abroad
a.a white woman gave him a whole house in birmingham uk
b.a white american businessman donated the hectares of land where the redeemd hold their american festival of life,he looked for pastor adeboye and when he met him,told him GOD sent him to give his church the parcel of land which is running into hundreds/tousans of hectares.ask anyone who has been to the american fol
c.his daily devotion,sunday school booklet come out every year and he has published his own bible all of which are selling in the millions, now do a rough calculation and tell me if he is not worth a couple of hundred millions

olabowale:
@Godson2009:I want the love that I get from Muhammad (AS) who was not arrogant to tell me his true position as a prophet/messenger, not shifting one single time about his position, where there is no am god, no an a servant, no am son of god, no am son of man, etc!

But what is interest in all of this is that Muhammad (AS) pointed me directly to the Creator, Allah who holds all the rights to the mercies, forgiveness that I need! I know who my Lord is. Who is yours: Jesus? Or Ghost? Or Father? See where the problem is and the nature of the problem; Multiple choice always lead to a single choice, and in your case will your single choice in the many be the correct, as in "none of the above"?

again this problem is simply from your end english comprehension, remember paddy adenuga and his fathereven though they are one blood,if paddy decideds to give his wife/gf 1 billion dollars tmorrow and his dad said no,whose will will triumph??
food for though for you, then juxtapose it with GOD and jesus

as to the holy ghost, in a molue or public transport,who tells the driver to move to the left or right as the case may be?the conductor who reports to the driver that he needs change or get fuel and all that?the conductor that is the holy ghost,

jesus christ sends the holy ghost on errands, tell olabowale that he shouldnt commit that sin,minister to his heart.

tell uplawal that she should read her bible, e.t.c when you want to commit sin,the holy ghost who is carrying a message from heaven will relay the message to you,dont allow the devil e.t.c

another example is pain, if you are conversant with science,if somoen pricks you with a pin,the pain travels to the brain where is now sends a message to the affected part,that is the holy ghost the difference between them is that GOD the father is permanently seated up there he is the all knowing,co ordinating everything,his son is seated by his shoulder,like your first son will be seating by you when watching tv or wants to get something off you, the father relays important messages,and running of the world to his son,because he is busy, the son sends the memos to the holy spirit,who drives the courier bus to earth into our hearts and minds and ministers to us, that is the difference, they are all one because the same way you and your son are one bllod,same way you and your wife are one is the same way they are all one.

one in purpose as they all have to agree on every single thing

as to the other comments the reason john g lake could not heal every single person is simply because"he is human" however what he has done,with other men and women of GOD,is in the history books,thank GOD you are in america,why dont you publicly prove me wrong,that christian annointing and healing powers from GOD is fake,by conducting a research,and see if the medical community in america did not validate the countless miracles of healing of cancer,disability e.t.c
white ppl dont just believe miracles or acknowledge it untill it is proven to them, these are mere men,not prophets,and this is hundreds of ears after jesus christ had died, after mohammad how many imams have been performing miracles and healing crusades?surely in a followership of 1 billion or so,we should have maybe up to 100 strong and annointed immams who have healing powers?

seeing as you dont have,it shows your own allah is not living,your religion is cold in spite fo the five times prayers, christianity is live and fiery hot that is why you see men of GOD like the hagins oral roberts,morrris cerullo e.t.c praying and thousands will fall under the annointing,they dont need to blow people up or kill to show you GOD IS alive.you noticed i didnt mention any nigerian man or woman of GOD,so that you wont sully it all by saying they r using magic,as to these i have mentioned,they are documented and validated miracle from their hands by relevant scientific authorities in obodo usa that is GOD showing us which of the religions he is residing in