₦airaland Forum

olabowale:
@Godson2009: I did not know how to read arabic until 1998, the year I actually identified wat Alif was, a simple straight line from top to bottom. You can do the same, since there was a time that you did not know any alphabet, or word, or sentence, and see you now go at reading!To show you that english Quran is not 100% correct, just like English Bible cant be ever correct, considering the many versions, and always updating by current editions, revisions, and publications, in the Quran, a phrase "Kun Fa ya Kun" appears in at least 8 times. "Fa" in arabic is "So" in English! But when the Arabic phrase is being translated to English, the translators say "and" which in arabic is "wa"! This is why I do not use the english Quran, and of course the English Quran, like Yoruba Quran, etc is not used for Salah, etc and I dont know how many times I have said this to the Christians who dont get it! Listen to Arabic Quran, and you will hear the most beautiful rhythemic sound, very melodious without actually singing, then read the english meaning, in your best voice and compare the acceptance levels of both to your hearing, your heart! The arabic Quran wins, hands down!
situation that a little boy will be conditioned by, will be the same situation that a grown man will be conditioned by, except that the protocols will be different, the same is abrogation! Where is the original Bible, since we know that Quran is in Authentic Arabic?

hmmn i see,dont worry i will do if i am given the research job i am pursuing on terrorism in africa, in the same vein i will enjoin you to read the niv version of the bible,it is in clear and easy to understand english,rather than the kjv or new kjv,i only know of one bible where it says jesus is the son of GOD,and tells me that he died for my sins,e.t.c any other bible you know i suggest you discard them,the voice or the way it sounds is not the bone of contention here,but the truth and falsehood contained therein is what matters,the fact that sina peters is good to hear or obesere and the others doesnt divorce the fact that they have vulgar lyrics

olabowale:
Quranic Interpretation is not Quran! Hadiths are classified as authentic if it agrees with Quran, the expected Book which Muhammad (AS)'s speeches are based and must explain and agreed with, to the weak, which indicates unlikeliness of it being said by Muhammad. Abrogation is a process of replacing an earlier verse with a current verse better or same value in meaning, having a current application. For example the same situation that a little boy will be conditioned by, will be the same situation that a grown man will be conditioned by, except that the protocols will be different, the same is abrogation! Where is the original Bible, since we know that Quran is in Authentic Arabic?
situation that a little boy will be conditioned by, will be the same situation that a grown man will be conditioned by, except that the protocols will be different, the same is abrogation! Where is the original Bible, since we know that Quran is in Authentic Arabic?

another dodging of questions, so hadiths are only authentic,as long as they dont reveal the hidden secrets and contradiction of your mohammad,lol you see the duplicity already in your quran?how will you know he said or didnt say it if you wernt there?everything you are working on is solely based on "it cant have been" it isnt so based on the say so of this and that", even the quran itself shows this confusion because it is neither arranged numerically or chronologically, it is not arranged according to the way the prophecy came bringing in further confusions,in fct the book should be aptly named"the book of confusion"
a non believer can pick up a copy of the bible and at least read with basic comprehension,not so the quran you have to start from the back,and even the ones where u start from the front is soo confusing,
i am tired of this abrogation thing you keep dodging from,it is not replace by a better verse
are you saying the sword verses,is better than verses such as no compulsion in islam,and the defensive jihad verse? you see the crass duplicity and contradiction in your book of confusion??
i see so if by 100 years from now extra terrestials start living on earth with humans,your generations have the right to further tune and shift the quran to suit their purposes?lol lol
im sure you know that the bible has been intact and will always b till the end of time we have only one bible,but different interpretations,to see the complete bible,just type biblegateway on your computer and it ll show you the whole translations there are, no confusion, no seperate hadiths or something from GOD know who

olabowale:
Most sold does not translate to the truest! It just means that it is most popular, agree to because of many factors, and the factors do not mean truthfulness. Lies are easier to accept than truth because of agendas to be fostered: Look at Goerge Bush's and Richard Cheney's and others "Iraqi's WMD that was used for war. And in the final analysis, it is from the lips of Cheney that we heard it as a lie, after Hussaine was already HUNThe bolded is enough motivation. What programme should I get with? The one that will lead to hell? Neeeey!

lol i see,so you agree then?maybe you gys need to make your quran user friendly first of all
secondly.to remove the cloud of duplicity that has been associated with the book of confusion,show everyone you have nothing to hide,both your negatives and pocsitives,like we have done, you can go into any hotel and pick up a bible where you will find the positives and the old testament negatives,all inclusive and finally the coming of jesus to right the wrongs e.t.c

if anyone is fostering agendas,it is the muslims whose angenda is to forcefully convert all non muslims,to islam and kill these unwilling to accept

uplawal:
@GODSON,why is judas iscariot's death of two different account

abeg go and sit down at the back,are you supposed to be talking as a true muslim woman when the men are talking?go and prepare some food for us to eat,then stay at the backyard behind the curtains with the women like you,to answer your question there is only one  credible and truthful account, he committed suicide of his own accord due to the guilty conscience,now go to the back!!

olabowale:
@Godson2009: « #345 on: Today at 02:12:15 AM » Dont compare me to Jesus, because I am not a spiritual leader, he was in my book, ehile you call him god! You will be unfair to me and doing me injustice, but I will not allow you to deitify me since these seems to be the quality of Jesus that you are tryng to make me accept for myself! He didnt ontribute and if I didnt contribute we will be equal then? No, my brother. I am not the defender of the kaaba. I live in USA, and Kaaba is not in America and I am only a guest in Saudi Arabia, not a citizen there. My good deeds are between me and Allah, and those who know me well. When we hang out, believe me I know how to hang out man, then you may know me better! Jesus was not a Christian, a Jew by tribe not by religion because only his ethnicity was referred in the Bible, not his religion, and he was not a gentile by ethnicity! Your argument please? I am a Yoruba by tribe, a Nigerian by origin, a yankee and 9ja now and always a Muslim, InshaAllah, an almost a Mumin!

that is not the point,stop confusing yourself,you said jesus had no right to scatter the money lenders in the synagogue because he didnt build it,and i asked you if you built the kaaba as well,for you to defend its perceived desecration if it happens, it is not a matter of who is  human and who isnt,jesus christ came in form of a normal human being,but with supernatural powers which he only used when need be to propagate the gospel,or feed people,now in answer to your comment especially the last four or five lines,does the fact that his religion was not reffered to mean anything?
if you want to see why we identify with him,then go and read the new testament,i will give you specific chapters if you want,including one where he said he did not come for only the jews but the gentiles and everyone else,he always took the m,ain all through the bible to make it known that he was for everybody and died for alll our sins

olabowale:
@Godson2009: « #345 on: Today at 02:12:15 AM » D
You know nothing about Islam. You only accept what your family tradition accept in Christianity, otherwise you would have known that when they say a man overpowers a woman, if she is not yelling no, or help or rapist, she is in a consentual relationship with the male, especially when she is overshadows, because no intercourse can occur except the female is in the frontal part of the male. If you are not married, I see why a virgin man like you will not know. To be a virgin is a virtue, so I commend you, and its not because of Christianity you are a virgin. Further, you would have known that True God will not come on earth true a woman starting from announcing His own conception, mounting His own mother, and coming out a full time pregnancy later, as a baby, needing milk because he is incapable of solid food, yet, needing mom's care because he is incapableof taking

no sire,i disagree with you,my family were conservative anglicans,i am a born again christian,as for islam,i dont need to prove anything to you,at the risk of sounding my own horn,i think the few direct comments i.e verses have stood me in good stead as to my knowledge of your islam,on the flip side however,it has been like easy due to the amount of inconsistencies i found or read, didnt your own quran say that allah abrogates because of his infinite widom?
yet when it comes to the real truth of immaculate conception,you have difficulty in accepting it, i will use the same quranic verse to answer you,are you wiser than GOD?
is there anything GOD is incapable of doing?so why are you suprised?

olabowale:
care of self. If I stop here, I believe I have made a good argument about your worse knowledge of Christianity, since Jesus himself and the disciples called him, man, prophet and servant, in more places than where one could be unclear about the fact that he may be God, a God, Eloi who is Unseen and whoever see Him, as Yahweh or Jehovah will die, and not live; physical and spiritual death where he is condemned into Hell! Even the Israelites know this, by simply saying to Moses, tell us what God says, because we do not want Him to talk to us, because we know disaster will come right away! I know enough, since my mother used to be Christian, now she is a Muslim, Alhamdulillah. My university roommate is a reverend today in New York City's Baptist Church around the Times Square area! I know enough because I was married to a Christian woman. I know enough because I still know and do business with many christians!
Mumin!

im sure you will agree with me,that because your mother or indeed your family converted doesnt count much in the ultimate and general scheme of things,how many hundreds of thousand of muslims are converting to christianity right now,we both know that they are converting everyday, for various reasons especially in the western world and nigeria/ghana and other parts of  west africa,what you have just related was in the old testament,now jesus christ who died for us is the bridge between us and  the father GOD,that is why he said no one can go to the father except through him,we have dropped the blood and animal sacrifice because we dont need it anymore,all we need do,is to kneel down and pray for forgiveness good for your room mate and your mum,but i still maintain that based on all you have written,so far and your interpretation of the bible,plus the way you obviously mix and confuse the verses/chapters,the best is a rudimentary knowledge of the bible,after glossing over it,you have not studied the bible yet,and with all due respect,if your room mate faults what i and others have been writing,then i will challenge him,or anyone to show me the copy of the bible they r using,just like uplawal,with all due respect you have to admit,your mum at best was a sunday sunday christian,not a born again and broken christian,pls show me one single really born again and broken christian who has converted to islam?i have mentioned three core islamic believers who have converted to full time ministry,that is not mentioning friends

olabowale:
Godson2009, dont you understand anything? Jesus couldhave forgiven him postmortemly! Even me who is not a prophet knows that God can forgive een the dead, afterall who will challenge Him of His ltest DECISION? Far out, Jesus did not have such an infinite wisdom, and he could not stop hold a grudge, the reason he didn't forgive the man, discounting all that the man did, even following his prediction of betraying him. No? Please give me a good agument against this postulation, and I can raise the bar a notch on you! Maa binu o. Oro lo moro wa o.

Mumin!

where was jesus all this time?you see why i said you dont know much about the bible? ;Djesus was already crucified and later gone to heaven,judas iscariot had gone to commit suicide,unless you are asking for jesus christ to announce to the whole world that he has forgiven judas iscariot,to whom it may concern? as for forgiving the dead,that is where we also differ,outside of judas's case, the lord has said it and disciples as well that,once you die,thats it,you face judgement,forget about the dumb idea of praying for the dead,if your prayers were so effective for getting forgiveness,how many dead has woken up since your marathon prayers over the dead?lol lastly he allowed the betrayal to take place,so that the prophecies might be fullfilled go and study the bible,not read through!!

olabowale:
So when Jesus said vipers, adulterous and evil generations, and saying a nation of people not be being sinners, mind you but by not being from the nations of the children of Israel, he must be assumed to have thought about it and said the dandiest thing, as he said it out? Thats wisdom, an infinite one, I say! Is that not sinful? And behaving violently towards the money exchangers, and telling his people to sell the few cloths to almost unclothedness and use the cash to buy swords are not things of peace you know, paying attention to his earlier statements of not bringing peace but war. If this statement of not bringing peace but war was not meant by him, your reason for his violent temper, I understand and I will count it as do as I do sometimes, and dont do as I do at other times, because I dont mean it, a sure sign of hypocracy. No? This is why I will now ask you again; is it not hypocracy on your part or on the part of the speaker who said "dont think I come to abrogate the laws and the prophets (and many of you dont even believe these people were prophets anyway), but to fulfill them. Even the smallest jot shall be fulfilled, and whosoever abrogates or encourages other to abrogate, shall be least in the Kingdom"? What shall be the least in the Kingdom relative to Lake of Fire or Hell? Who goes to it, except the one who is the least, knowing fully well that there is nothing lower than the least?

again you are getting it wrong,most of your questions on these forums have been a wrong interpretation of the bible either deliberately or not, the easiest way to say this is that jesus christ would have called only sinners and wicked people names,in spite of that he would forgive them totally and unreservedly once they can admit to their sins and ask for forgiveness with a promise that they will go and sin no more, is that condition not fair enough?
he chased money changers,selling birds and stuffs out of the temple, imagine oshodi or lagos island,inside a supposedly holy place,now a random man comes and volunteers to upturn the chaotic situation,without thinking of his own safety,he could be mugged or beaten yet he didnt care about the pain,as what he allowed himself to go through later at crucifiction indicates, what did mohammad do at the hint of impending harmhe ran away to another city,with his tail between his legs, you dont know the meaning of violent temper sire, anger at the desecration of an holy place,is different from violent temper,which is what mohammad normally has like the time he was soo enraged with a poet and leader Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf killed/assasinated, go and check it out,he even paid blood money in compensation,a prophet supposedly holy and who muslims are to emulate??

olabowale:
And there are Christians and others who do not eat pork, yet they are also devils in disguise, not only in Nigeria but around the world; maiming, raping, killing, homosexualling, doing the return to the sender because they do not even believe the blood can cure them! If a person curses me, I simply say to him/her that they are not my Allah Who I completely put my trust in. I do not fear anyone, because my Lord has ordainedwhat He has ordained, and I can only change evil wishes from any or group/groups by my supplication and petition in Du'a to Him! Allah says in the Quran "I will not change the condition of a people, until they begin to change it themselves", so the people who are doing things of hell, shall stop, repent and start doing things of Paradise, Allah will protect them from Hell. And those who were on the way to Paradise, but change to things of Hell, then their place in Hell will be assured when they die!

i agree with you,but homosexuality is more prone in the middle east and amongst middle easterns,same thing as alcohol consumption in spite of their islamic religion, the bible trells me too that if somone slaps my cheek,to turn the other cheek,if i am offended to forgive,the bible tells me that i should love my enemy and pray for them,and also that irrespective of whatever biblical knowl;edge or annointing,the greatest and most important edict of the lord we must obey is to love one another, not fellow christians but every body unlike islam which calls ome people apes and pigs,vile dogs and warns muslims not to make friends with non muslims

olabowale:
@Godson2009« #332 on: Yesterday at 08:32:35 PM » So what a person said is enough to not forgive him? Well you are a witness by the above against your own word against God the Almight Allah! And Jesus did not have any role in the Plaza, afterall, you are christ-like and not Jews. No? That plaza is meant for Jewish religion and not Christ-like religion, so you see while I protect the rontage of the Mosque against sales of pigs, Jesus should have had not right pushing Jews out of Jewish properties! Jesus didnot build nor pay a single shekel for the upkeep of the plaza or the temple, while the muslims purchased their site and paid for the building, and the upkeeping.

i see,how much did you contribute to building the kabah then?seeing as you wont sit by and watch ppl slaughter pigs inside it if u were the only muslim who somehow happened to be there, your justification is preposterous, how many mosques did you help build in the whole world??
what was jesus christ,jew or gentile?
do you understand why we identify ourselves with christ,and do you realise it has nothing to do with jew or gentile?

if you dont then you have a whole lot of reading to do,before you are conversant with christianity as i am conversant with islam and its core doctrines

olabowale:
We are asking what Jesus did as to forgiveness, you cant answer but telling me what others are doing of their own? Thats dishonesty on your part.

alhaji dont you understand english??judas iscariot did not allow himself to be forgiven, did jesus tell him to commit suicide??
why didnt peter who denied him three times to his face commit suicide??

olabowale:
I was not here then. Further what would God have done? The Creator allowed the devil (spirit) a place in the spiritual realm before he createdmankind, and not all mankind carries active devil. And not all devils inhabit man! God would not have taking active devil from a creation and throws it into another. The swine dirth by your statement, yet you guys eat im. No wonder all kinda dirty behaviors in this world are practiced by the eaters of tis animal; the Christians!

in case you dont know,jesus christ was asked something similar to this,you know what he answered in his infinite wisdom?
he said sinning is not by what you eat,but by the thoughts in your hearts,what you say and your behaviour towards your fellow man or woman, there are muslims in nigeria who would never touch pork even with a knife to their throats,yet they are the devil in disguise,they kill do rituals e.t.c will them not eating pork or fasting(which are just normal empty rituals)automatically cleanse them?


Read my responses in the greatest miracles of Islam, a thread created by Pligrim.1 for the bolded. No father in heaven because you guys always stop at Adam. Remember? Look at the two geneologies, again! Tell me where you wrote God?
[quote][/quote]i asked you the miracles mohammad performed sire,dont tell me to look for a thread unless you r tryna dodge the question

olabowale:
I dont trust you which is our firts problem. While you find it easy to answer my easier question you play possum about the major question: Did Jesus called anyone a fool, after he had warned against this very thing, threatening Hell against anyone who says "fool" to anyone? Did Jesus say that he and God are one, while he says that he is a humn being, begging God for help and also saying that he could not do anything out his own power alone, needing God to do them throygh him. Are these not diametrically oposing the other? Yes. Did the disciple referred to Jesus as servant sent by God in Acts, while some others lie Paul brought the idea of co-godsip? Are these going the same direction, or opposite?

1.yes he did call ppl who deserve to be called fools that,like i said i prefer being called a fool when im acting like one,that being beheaded even while im innocent.
2.yes he did say he and GOD are one,in the context of the analogy i gave o you about mike adenuga and his first son, the bible is not english comprehension textbook you read through and translate phonetically,one studies the bible not only reading it,that is why you dont have the key to understanding it
3.same explanation as no2 ll suffice for jesus and GOD being one.
4.he needed GOD to do things for him,because he came [b]in human form[/b]moreover,that has already defeated your numerous arguments,because it simply shows that jesus christ acknowledged the superiority of his father, i can ask my father for help,yet if im in nigeria i canrepresent him at some functions and make donations on his behalf,im sure your father's driver will not tell you to get down if you tell him to take you out
5.pls show me where the disciples called jesus servant of GOD?maybe i have not studied my bible to that extent
6.the issue of the triune has been severally addressed,hence nothing i say will change your mind other than to say stick with your belief and ill stick with mine,as i really cant add anything to the awesome surmissions of the knowledgeable guys on here

olabowale:
None of my partners make decisons with icluding me or informing me later on. And if theirdecisions are incorret, they will know my own response right away! Did Jesus say love every one and at the same time prepare lake of fire for some amingsr these beloved to him, whom his salvation covers; consider christians who will come to him proclaiming that they did mighty miracles in his name, yet he will say I do not know yee!. All of these are Jesus contradicting or the Bible contracdicting itself!

now i know you have english cmprehension problems sire alhaji lol lol
of course he loves every single person,even you and uplawal,abuzola e.t.c however,he is giving you all ample opportunity to repent,hence telling you what awaits those who dont repent, a teacher will tell you tha i want all of you to pass and be promoted,however if you dont pass,you will repeat this class,is that easier to comprehend for you?

olabowale:
I know what hedoism means.I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s, well before the HIV/AIDS of the 1980s. I missed woodstock by a whisker! If Muhammad's ruling stopped me from chasing tails, then you should know that your accusation is baseless. While I copy Muhammad (AS), you can never copy Jesus when it comes to sex and love and marriage! Yur parets will be unhappy with you if you dare try to be Christlike on this matter!

sire,it doesnt work that way,you as an individual cant stand in the gap either for mohammad,or for other muslims the fact that you have not ndulged in what mohammad did does not make it baseless,it is a proven fact, annointing flows from the head down to the feet,if there is no oil on the head,how will it flow to the body??if mohammed was defective,how will you expect the body of islam to balance?
annointed men of GOD ll round the world in christiendom are performing miracles,you muslims are sitting down there saying they r magic or all lies
is there any bonafide true islmic man og allah that can heal the sick,cripple like the k hagins,o roberts,wigglesworth,john g lake e.t.c as you ll notice i intentionally ommitted the powerful men and women of GOD in nigeria so that you dont say they r using magic, these ppl i have mentioned especially john g lake had a stanby medical doctors comfirming the miracles face to face,recorded in medical histories,while he was alive spokane was the healthiest area in his vicinity, show us what your imams have done apart from fatwahs

olabowale:
You love to deceive? You will deeive only yourself, oterwise bring me the "UPdated Version of the Quran", in arabic so that I can compare it to the old and delapitated obes I have! I will do it cghapter by chapter. Then sentence by sentence, then word by word, and finally letter by letter! If you are wrong, then I know you have not been telling the truth all along.

unfortunately i cant read arabic quran,which is how you have been deceiving ppl so that they dont get head nor tail of what the quran is all about, if you want the english one,which i have been posting all over this section i will gladly and without hesitation leave anything i am doing and attend to it quick snap,i dont need to convince you if i have been telling the truth,i have availed you of the relevant hadiths and quranic verses to back up my assertions,i went to school now so i know when writing an academic piece of work you back every point up with evidence,so this is a verry moot point i bet you wish i will lie so that you can destabilize all my arguments and evidence,but i cant i have more than enough evidence

olabowale:
That will be shameful, compared to the Bible that I used in high school, prior to 1970, the first year student in 1971 were issued a different version/edition of the same Bibe from the same printer!Check it out on the internet! Maybe because everything is Bible to you guys, since there is no original, unlike the Quran which is orginal still, only in arabic!

that is to show you the depht of the bible,how many quranic interpretations are there as well?
how many hadiths?
abrogations?
as many different translations as the bible has had,it is the most sold book so far in the whole wide world,also it is the single book ppl tend to have ither in their house or office shelf, it has been centuries since that book was written under the aunction of the holy spirit,and till today ppl are still trying to figure it out but they cant, go and read proverbs and you will see the depht of knowledge, if you love poems go and read the book of psalms

what motivation is there to read the quran,apart from the contradictions on one side,and then telling us how unbelievers will have hot coals heaped on them e.t.c get with the programme abeg

olabowale:
Muhammad (AS) is neither a carcass nor going to be exhumed! As said before, if you accuse him of illicit sexual act, how does his warning against it provide me the reason for staying away from it, except that he was the example that I live by? If he was a thief, how could he have brought about the implimentation of that law adhere to by almost all muslims, except the ignorant among the elites and the foolish (I copied Jesus by calling people name here, except that am saying what is public knowledge), and this law is practiced today and by head counts and community group sampling the muslims fair better based on piety and humility? Not a single leadership is uncorrupt in Nigeria, so we go to the masses; the greater percentage of evils are committed by the non-muslims, day in day out!

simply because your mohammad,like i and others have been saying is not only a fraud,confusionist and full of contradictions,is actually the hypocrite of the highest form, let us forget all other evidences and pick just one pattern,his revelations always happen to be when he wants something either coveting his step son's wife,justifying his raiding,justifying his sexual hedonism/orgies e.t.c people are shuting that pastor adeboye is buying a jet,simply because they know it is unlike him,nobody raised an eyebrow when bishop oyedepo bought another one, now imagine all the negative vices your mohammad indulged in,the fact that you learnt from him is not enough to erase his bad records, i learnt from ted bundy not to be a serial killer,i learnt from the nigerians executed in bangkok not to carry drugs there,doesnt change the fact hat some of them are guilty, well lets start from bloodshed the muslims in nigeria have killed the most,the people that has messed nigeria up to its present state are muslims,the almajiris they use are muslims,we have not had any peace because of the arabic on our currency, america's currency says "in GOD we trust"is it not working for them?show me where islam is in practise all over the world,and there is absolute peace??

olabowale:
This is unlike your Bible whic simple forgives as long as you believe in death on the cross, trinity, blood dipping, etc, but lack personal responsibility and God onsciousness! Sexual liason, drinking are all forgiving and taking as personal thing and not an added community ill effect, in Christianity as long as Jesus blood is covering you! It is the law of Islam that keeps me away from all interest based businesses, chasing the tails of all that come my way, taking advantage of anyone in each and every thing I am involved in!

exactly,that shows the magnanimity of my father who is in heaven, im sure you have read the lords prayer and i want you to note a specific verse"forgive us our sins, as we forgive these who trespass against us, meaning that forgiveness is based on specific conditions,christianity is so beautiful because the lord while forgiving us,is teaching us the act of forgiveness, ghandi isnt a christian,but his famous quote says"an eye for an eye,makes the world go blind"no wonder the islamic community all round the world are blind,keep on blowing ppl up,and we will be getting more and more converts,haveyou heard of the nigerian pastor in ukraine?he has the largest church in the whole of ukraine, we r moving the lord acknowledges that we are human,and hence susceptible to sin,that is why we are living under grace,you commit multiple sins every single day yet we still go back to him,and he forgives us,mohammad commited all manner of atrocities,yet he s unfairly putting his followers under a rule/doctrine he was not able to fullfill

olabowale:
And did Muammad steal from anyone, and while in Makka raded the Yemenis? I am shocked they called him Alamin (from amana: trust), the trusted/trustee if he was a thief! Please give us the ahadith which will support your argument! Otherwise, I will say that yoy=u hae reorted to not telling us the truth!

while in medina/yathrib,he and his followers raided yemeni traders going to mecca,then justifying it by saying that they were doing so because they were persecuted while in mecca,remember i explained this to you a couple of dys ago?when i posted the dictionary meaning of "persecute"if you want the relevant hadiths after this,just speedily ask me and ill furnish you, you know me by now i back every assertion up, in my books raiding innocent travellers/traders is the same as being an highway robber,no difference!!

olabowale:
My daily reading of Quran in Arabic gives me a greater sense of the meaning because of my faith, than you who gets only the "meaning" that foster your intent to argue against islam blindly! While I know that Jihad has the arm/war aspect of it, it has a larger aspect which is not and also Har'b meaning war exclusively is not Jihad which is neither arm struggle or war exclusively! Where is your education now, but considering that Jesus commanded for the purchases of "SWORDS" and when purchasd and used, "Har'b", he turned around to the other aspect of Jihad the internal sruggle not to cause the blood bath that would have definitely resulted in either kiling the multitude with the SWORDS, or the multitude losing many lives, but killing all the disciples any how, and the proof is that they seized no one else but Jesus! Abegi let leave that thing,we already heard it all before!!

thank GOD you t least agree to that after the overwhelming evidence i have taken the pains to present lol dont worry i know what is called dar- al harb territory of war which consists of all the non muslim lands which had to be forcefully brought under islamic rule,while mohammad formerly said that the ppl of the book should be let alone and maybe pay jizya,he later abrogated himself,and the sword verses triumphed where he said they are to be killed and the jihad must not stop untill the whole world is dar-al-islam.

show me a single place,where jesus or his disciples ever used a sword,or violence in the bible,mohammad spilled innocent blood,maimed and killed while jesus christ healed,fed, why d you think judas committed suicide?why dyu think peter had that passion in spite of all they went through for the gospel,some were beheaded for the gospel,imprisoned,burnt at the stake,boiled in hot water e.t.c ask yourself what is the passion and zeal jesus christ a supposedly ordinary man,who was unarmed,no horse or donkey,no money or wife no political power nothing instilled in them,to be prepared to die for him and do everything, mohammad instilled fear and trembling in his followers,he had political power,money,ruled the city of medina with an iron fist,lied contradicted himself e.t.c yet you ppl are losing converts everyday

olabowale:
Slave mentality, only to God the Almighty Creator, and not to man, in the least. Lets start with Nigeria; the nothern people mostly muslims because of islam and not because of their ethnicity fielded people from them in every leadership election since inception of Nigeria. You people criticise them for this. Leadership is what Islam brings, and not blind followership! Globally, with the little that Saudi have, even though I disagree with them, based on their religiousity, they have tremendus impact on America, and I wish they realise that and utiize this advantageous influence to its fullest! Whereever Muslim is a majority, for the most part has been consistently ruled by Muslim leadership!

lol no sire,even though im totally against islam,dont yoke yourself or your religion with northerners holding power,i am a student of politics and in case you dont know,the same thing that happened with the tutsis and the hutus is what happened in nigeria, it was never by merit,but that is by the way,has nigeria ever known peace since they have had power?
go and read your international history,saudi arabia was almost finished,if not for the oil discovery,and dont let anyone decieve you,once america weans themselves off oil like they are doing now slowly but surely,saudi arabia will be powerless and this is in less than 100 years from now by all indications,china will be their only customer and you know as well as i do hell will freeze over before they will allow islam into their country,the governor of gombe invited pastor kumuyi to his office and is building a church, see we r even entering the north now halleluyah

olabowale:
Alhamduillah, since you direct your speeech to me, I have influenced many a non-muslim in my dealing wth them! From not taking interest ids we are in partnership on any project, to never invite me to a thing that is unIslamic, like bringing women as gifts to curry favors, whereby she is left with you in the hotel room! Am I a follower? Never a follower and this is borne primarily out of Islam.

same as i have so?mine is even better because i am born agan,hence i will not indulge in idol worship like you do,nor fornication and adultery with multiple women

olabowale:
Jesus said hell when he spoke about not calling anyone a fool, which he turned around and say to people any way. But you dont say hell fire but lake of fire. Between you and Jesus who is right and who is wrong, we already see the flippancy of Jesus as to the fool "name calling!"? Show me a simple contradiction of the Quran, I have asked you and all you do is dance and more dance, while I show you that Jesus called somebody a fool, while warned earlier for people not to do that: Matthew23. Maththew 5;22, thats the warning. Matthew 23; 17, 19, thats where he called people fools!

are you serious,now im sure you r just yanking my chain how many contradictions, and glaring ones at that have i shown you on this religious thread?i cant help but laugh out and shout like muslims after friday prayers going for thei jihad

olabowale:
When your Bible reports that Jesus said he and God are one, I wonder what that means to you, except he and God are equal? Did you actually read the Bible and or did the dissertation on any aspect of Islam, because your statements belie both?!

what it means to me,like i have explained to you with an analogy,if paddy adenuga who is the group md of mike adenuga's companies takes some high profile decisions,nobody will question him nor doubt him simply because they know that anything he says has already being cleared with his father,he and his father are one,if your wife goes to nigeria and tells a tenant in your house you built in nigeria to move out,they wont doubt her but beg her as if it was you why?because you are one, i could give you several examples, when i was in nigeria,me and my brothers will go to my dad's hotel and drink and eat all sorts and tell them to put it on director's credit,we are not the owner of the establishment,but they know that man gave birth to us,so we can order to eat and drink and not pay just as if it was the owner,if you dont get it this way,then im sorry

olabowale:
As a muslim, I already expect death. So am not going to be surprised whn it comes. From your Bible, (though I disagree with the person to be slaughtered, but lets just go with the gimmick of the half truth of the Bible for a moment, though it missed it by the person and the place, for a starter), little Isaac did not cry as his father Abraham laid him down for slaughter. Or did he say, why do you wanna kill me or something to show that he disagreed? If Ismail the true son for slaughter with an easy to cast out mother did not resist Ibrahim's slaughter, the reason we do the slaughter after the day of Arafat, why would a "grown man god" be crying out now just because he is a man? 2 years ago, in the Bronx, a malian father lost all his family to fire, and a mother lost all her children, neither of them say to Allah "Why?", and you have a god complaining to his father or his partner? Abegi leave that thing,we have heard it all before!!

we all know that death can come anytime,however i shall not die prematuredly but live to glorify the goodness of the lord,pastor adeboye said he will die on a sunday after church during his siesta,and a meal of pounded yam, so he is expecting death and he know but he will not die prematuredly, so we r all expecting death next?

simply because you cant compare both experiences,go and read the biblical accounts of what jesus went through, are you for real??the point is that GOD created both abraham,isaac and jesus christ,so theres no point comparing or contrasting as far as we christians are concerned gerrit??if mohammad wasnt a scaredy cat,why didnt he wait in mecca after the death of his protectors?that is what i call being lazy and spineless,not a man that an iron stake was hammered into his hands and legs,crown of thorns,whipped e.t.c

olabowale:
Abegi leave that thing,we have heard it all before!! Apologist, Liar, Magician, etc are some of the personalities exhibited when "interpreting" the Bible. Healing is completely different from calling a person a non-flattering name. Calling a person a dog is not an ideally praiseworthy. saying a person is a fool after you said no one should say the same because their place is the punishment of hell (he didnt say lake of fire), and wholesale calling people a gerneration of vipers, adulterous, etc, and turning around that tis same people hold the key to salvation, I onder what salvation is then and what those who are better than this generation hold then, but a greater key to a greater slavation? No? You cant een answer the challenge without some silly copout expanation.

i see,is it worse than your mohammad then who opted to behead everyone who made him angry?remember i told you about the young girls he had killed just for singing a satire mocking him?like davidlan and noetic are always haranguing you,did your mohammed ever forgive?show me one verse that he forgave and ill show you another verse that he didnt forgive, remember i posted a couple of the intolerable and vile stuffs mohammad said,at least jesus never enjoined us not to make friends with non christians unlike mohammad
jesus christ or our own GOD never blocked anyone's ears to salvation like your own vindictive,wicked allah has done, why is it strange to you that he called human beings a nest of vipers,what will you call the group of nigerian politicians or pdp for instance?
what will you call the ritual killers?
he called these who are unrepentant sinners a nest of vipers e.t.c not ppl like me who realised the folly of their ways and turned round to serve the lord,go and read the parable of the prodigal son, that ll answer your question

olabowale:
If when George Bush was the President, no one dare called privates Cheney or Donald Rumfeld warmonger(s) to their faces, but when they left, some women have heckelled each even Runfeld at the Airport, and Condi Rice have been grilled my some college students, and still walking free. Today, Cheney and others are being sued for 911 related cases! I am saying that the woman accoring to your Bible didnt mind being called a dog or compared to it, but I Olabowale will never call a person dog except I am so angry that the worst I could do is just that; call the person animal, a dog! Alhamdulillah, I am a muslim, because I will hate to be from a community that has a God, or even a prophet or the least a leader who stoop so low to call a seeker of healing dog, just because he or she does not belong to a particular group of people or class or religion. Is this the Indian untouchables or the Igbos Osu caste system? The Igbos practised Osu caste system and practising Christianity both at the same time! Haa. And with all of hat you couldnt take up the challenge!?

some of the names or descriptions your mohammad uses for non muslims,now figure out which is better being called a dog or these names,

Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. q98;6

And if We had pleased, We would certainly have exalted him thereby; but he clung to the earth and followed his low desire, so his parable is as the parable of the dog; if you attack him he lolls out his tongue; and if you leave him alone he lolls out his tongue; this is the parable of the people who reject Our communications; therefore relate the narrative that they may reflect q7;176
who was mohammad calling panting dogs??

Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path. q 5;60
who did he say allah made apes and pigs?the worst and lowest form anyone can be called by a muslim?

the moral of the story,these who live in glass houses dont throw stones alhaji alhaji alhaji

KunleOshob:
@Godson
But pastor Adeboye also preaches the false doctrine of tithes, does that not make him a false prophet?2peter2:1-3.

obviously you r a christian,so il ask you
do you believe in the word of the lord that says for us not to speak ill of anointed men of GOD?as for false doctrine,while i disagree with you,i am not in the habit of talking that way or analysing men of GOD

my own stance and this is personal is that
1.as long as no one forces me to give tithe,offerings e.t.c then im not bothered,let us be completely honest do you think people parting with money they cant afford are being forced to?

they r not ,its a nigerian thing to act bigger than we r worth,think about this,and im sure you have seen a few ppl do this,when ppl want to put coins in the envelope,why do they hide or do it when all eyes are closed did pastor adeboye or anyone tell them not to put coins in?

the point of my preamble is that,it has nothing to do with doctrine or no doctrine,it is down to people who know what they r worth outside the church,trying to impress their fellow church goers,the woman in the bible that is now so synonymous with widows mite,put in the little she could afford in plain view of the church,or how did jesus know that it was a widow's mite?
did the bible mention these that put in large sums of money?no

Abuzola:
Don't be ridiculous, We are talking of single billionaire and not zakat

yea roight and there are no muslim billionaires in nigeria??you r hilarious

Abuzola:
Allah akbar
jazakhallahu khairan, see how you disgraced the cross worshipper. May Allah increase you in knowledge

abeg carry your smelly busy beard away from here!!

olabowale:
Definitions of Hebrew; a semitic people on the land that Ibrahim and his company migrated to and settled in after leaving the idolatry people of their heritage. Israel: Jacob. Children of Israel: Children of Jacob, and the first generation is the generation of Joseph, and his brothers and sisters; Judah was one of the brothers. Jew, Jewish, Judaism: spiritual organiation or religion practiced by the people who claim to be "Children of Israel. This same people ethnically identify themselves by the same word(s) or derivitive of it; Jew, Jewish!

you simply are not comprehending my stance,and we v been on this for several pages,DO NOT QUOTE OR FORCE FEED ME YOUR ISLAMIC RIGMAROLE AND HOPE ILL ACCEPT IT AS A FACT!! ill address al this in one word if i claim to be a descendant of abraham,even though im from nigeria,can you trace my lineage or if you cnnot,does it nullify my assertaions??the reason for me asking you this is simply because you dont have any idea about the meanings and concepts of so many things in the bible,first of all each time you respond with a retort,you try confusing yourself by dropping arguments you cant win,and then latch on to another one you think you have a strong hand at,all i simply said in response to yur former comment was this;did these prophets make up a large chunk of the old testament or not?
are they recognised hence validated by your prophet or not? simple , now if mohammad validated and mentioned them,then we shouldnt be going on about them because there is no point,unless you want to agree with me,that mohammad is a serial liar,so which is it?answer my questions and leave all these rigmarole you r hiding behind

olabowale:
Abegi leave that thing,we have heard it all before!! But then about the colonization, if Jesus said go preach to every creature, a departure from I am sent but to the lost ship of the house of Israel, we see that the colonizers came with Bible in one hand and colonization, oppression, killing, enslaving, grabbing of land and minerals and authority in another!

exactly my point,didnt you read and understand my comments?? i said it was politics but using religion as a veil to perpetuate their acts no?

olabowale:
@Godson2009" « #331 on: Yesterday at 07:53:36 PM » This all you could do for a response to the bolded truth is abegi leave that thing,wehave heard it all before!!, I will do exactly the same for your lies, saying exacttly the same. The only lace I will now help your understanding better with a different response (explanation) is where you have some truth! See, I am helping you and my attitude is not to ignore your truth or partial truth, even though thats what you did to mine. Example is just above.

so that you and your omo ile kewu will stop crying,i withdraw "leave that thing comment" now the issue is this, you have posted a comment basically stating your mohammad's stance i.e that the latter christians/jews e.t.c deviated from the supposed correct teachings,what did you expect me to say apart from leave that thing??to say you r right when i know you r not??
that and the concept of the triune has been you gys mantra,ever since,and i have heard enough of it,hence the leave that thing;throw a convincing question or something that has not been continually rehashed and i will answer you straight up without any ambiguity, you know me now

Abuzola:
Buzz ! That plane worth billion, we have million of beggars and destitute, come to my area and see how Rccg members are suffering, is buying jet the right thing

how many of the almajiris in the north and south and all over nigeria have your muslim leadership helped out,or is the principle of zakat lost on you and your islamyou have enough to buy bombs,swords,guns to "protect yourselves" yet your muslim children are sniffing gums,petrol,embalming chemicals,gutter fumes e.t.c

KunleOshob:
@godson
A true christian leader that is following the teachings of christ would NEVER indulge in such excesses and start giving excuses that it is needed to spread the gospel whilst the poor and needy around you are starving and even yet to hear the gospel. There is no point justifying it just becos the was carried out by a church leader you respect, afterall no matter what he claims he is just a man and he is not more important in the sight of God than that poor muslim beggar on the street whose soul is lost. Our pastors should also live by example and not use gospel to cover up or indulge in excesses. They shd be accountable to the flock as well.

again,i will say this based on the fact that i am a member of the redeemed church,one thing we must not fail to realise is that pastor adeboye on his own,or the church collectively cannot solve nigeria's problems, you should hold your leaders accountable for that,he can only do his own bit which he is doing.
secondly,the fact that the man does not talk or shout unnecessarily about his charity works doesnt mean he isnt doing anything,

i will let u all into some of his private charities which you might not know,
go to ifewara his home town, he gave not less than 1 billion naira in total for a micro finance scheme,not only for the town,but for underlying areas as well,both muslims,christians,even idol worshippers have acessed out of thesze loans, at a time he was told some people were just collecting the money without utilising it well,but he told them not to worry,and till date he is still funding them.

also his wife,pastor mrs adeboye has her own children's charity and they sponsor the building of schools and other stuffs needed for children to sucessfully complete schools,not just in nigeria,but as far as malawi,any redeemed member in uk and the us will tell you interested members prayed and donated towards the malawi outreach last year/this year but they are not in the habit of shouting or looking for photo opportunities with world leaders or politicians on account of their charities,neither are they looking to steal anyone's money,thas why you dont know about these things,

this is outside of all the individual giving pastor adeboye does both on behalf of himself,and his family, i challenge you to ask any redeemed pastor or any church he has ever visited,and they will tell you that nobody gives more than pastor adeboye,funny thing is that he doesnt pay his own tithes in redeemed but depper life or other churches

@poster
i dont believe several days later,you still have not responded to my questions and assertions o,wernt you the one that challenged us to ask questions? imagine a mujahideen running away from challenge,yet mohammad told you not to stop untill you forcefully or otherwise convert unbelievers to islam

mazaje:
Will you shut up? what about your own imams that go around buying weapons and telling people to buy weapons. . .

dont mind him,let him show us which islamic country/state both in and out of nigeria is not currently spilling blood or fighting

Abuzola:
Shut up jare, because u are Rccg member thats why you support him why can't u say the truth despite bitter

i am saying the truth,why is it biting you if we the members decide to give him our money?why dont you give your own imams as well so that they can buy jets to propagate your islam? bitterness and jelousy of other religions can kill o
the man has not bought a boeing 747 kitted out like airforce one you r complaining, you wait and see it will be rccg1

samorijack:
IF WE HAD A FUNCTIONING GOVERNMENT ADEBOYE AND THE LIKE WOULD BE OUT OF BUSINESS, they are the greatest beneficiaries of the status quo.

what is with us nigerians and the blame game??
tb joshua came,he didnt spend any money on himself,but was spending on the disabled,widows e.t.c you nigerians said he was the devil and he got his power from satan,even with the man's wide acceptance abroad.

pastor adeboye now,and you are going on about functioning government, how many private jets does the oral roberts family have?
how about keneth hagin?
mike murdoch?if you have not been to tulsa oklahoma,ask anyone how big the oral roberts university is,then you will realise redemption camp and the rest are child's play,now tell me was the clintons,bushes,obamas e.t.c functioning all these time or nay?
let us leave the pastor and his personal ministry alone and concentrate on the nigerian government,AGAIN we the members are not complaining,and there are more than one ways for pastors these days to make money, tithes and offerings are soo old fashioned

Abuzola:
'on the Day when every person will be confronted with all the good he has done and all the evil he has done, he will wish that there were great distance between him and his evil. And Allah warns you against Himself and Allah is full of kindness to His slaves' Quran 3:30

sorry o,but who was mohammad reffering to in the bolded parts??i hope its not what im thinking??

Abuzola:
I have told you what i had, so be reasonable. By the way why derailing the thread, your pastor na ashawo no hiden agenda

ok ok sorry,i understand islam and your prophet are really difficult to support,its just that the victory is sooo sweet

uplawal:
@godson,me no like too much digging,but TEMI YEMI SHA,and obviously you cant changed that,me just like to spice up the thread

i pity you,go and ask them olabowale to explain what the greater jihad consits of,in case you dont know,your quran  says if you shy away from doing jihad of the hand and mouth,you are committing sin o,so saying that temi yemi i.e surrendering is a sin according to islam,why do you think olabowale and abuzola no greee, you never know which religion you enter,spice up ko, pepper up ni,how was sunday and church,i want to put alhaji teeth o ,where can i get it

olabowale:
« #328 on: Today at 03:58:07 AM » Not the Money exchangers because he ran them out of the plaza, a public place I might add, and not his alone! He did not forgive the guy his left side on the cross! He did not forgive Judas Iscariot! He did not forgive the tree because he killed it by his curse, and this is an extreme case! He did not forgive your main meat swine because he sent evil spirit (the opposite of good spirit, I think this is the Holy spirit) into them because they got drowned by this event, when he could have simply arrested them if he was "CAPABLE" of doing anything of his own!

go back and read what the guy on the left side said,then go back and see why he forgave the notorious armed robber which you conveniently didnt mention lol, as for running money lenders out of the plaza,im sure if some iyalojas started using your mosque to sell fried pigs,your brother muslims will not only chase them out but literally skin them alive and hang them by the necks tru or false?lol
judas iscariot commited suicide,he never gave himself the chance,didnt peter deny him thrice?yet he was one of the greatest disciples,on the first day of his ministery after jesus left,go and see how many gave their lives to christy 3000 in one single day!
instead of sending them into the swine,which everybody regarded as dirty should he have sent the demons into you or some other people?in case you dont realise,demons cannot be destroyed because they are spirit beings floating round you can only displace them and they will go somewhere else but still keep coming back to try you out,hence the reason you will always notice that somethn is always tempting you not to pray or not to do good e.t.c
on the flip side,apart from convulsing like a warapa patient,almost falling off a cliff,which miracle did mohammad perform apart from the stealing and convenient prophecies,if it was that easy? fo course he is not capable of doing any miracle on his own,he has a father in heaven GOD!!what of mohammad?

olabowale:
I have thrown the gauntlet at you, and I expect you to bite. You are now denying that Jesus and the Christians do not believe and or say all of the above? Are they all in agreement? If a person says his/her gender was a particular and specific gender, either male or female, do you expect the person to turn around and say the complete opposite? If this person says the opposite, then know that it is the flippancy and dishonesty is 100% at play! Abi?

have i not been addressing all your other questions?i have stated why i cant answer that,either rephrase it properly or forever hold your peace with the flawed questiong you posted

olabowale:
To you ki she big deal. To me, it is a big big deal!

if its that big a deal to you,then rephrase and properly arrange the question like the others and trust me,ill adress it

olabowale:
While I think you cant match my sexual libido, I do not indulge in hedonism, because that is left for the Christians and their bathhouses, their brothels and places of orgies!

go and check the meaning of hedonism,and them juxtapose it with what mohammad was indulging in,while jesus christ was suffering walking bare footed with his disciples denying himself worldly comforts,your own "prophet" was busy testing sexual libido,why wont he mix the quran up or contradict himself?lol show me any chronic womaniser who was disciplined or without issues??lol

olabowale:
While I am allowed to fight and kill to defend myself and my loved ones and the oppressed, my properties, etc, I should not start a war, acting like a rebel without a cause, leaving that for the Christians, ala Jimmy Dean (The Rock on music lyrics comes to mind).

well that means you have not been readin the updated version of your quran on lesser jihad,your mohammad has abrogated the former verses which you are reffering to,

olabowale:
We dont take what is not ours the reason for amputations, and there is no step son in Islam, the reason I said to Davidylan not to devorce the pretty woman he will marry, because she will be off the rack, so that she does not go to community propertyship of the men, and according to you she will be an ajeku!

@the bolded,for us to believe you are being fair with your laws,ill suggest mohammad's carcass be dug up,and both hands chopped off,because he is the no 1 raider/robber, there is a step son pls dont insult my reasooning, if i post the necessary verses will you convert to christianity and publicly say "jesus christ is the son of GOD"? ;Dim waiting o

olabowale:
Quran uses "Har'b" for war! Quran uses "Jihad" for all kinds of struggle, including mental, and physica, and verbal. My dialogue with you now is Jihad, and not har'b. Har'b is what hisballah did with Israel in 2006! Big difference, man!

mr man,i will educate you if you dont know!!jihad meaning strive or struggle is in two broad parts lesser and greater jihad,while i acknowledge that mohammad said the greater jihad which is what you are saying is of more priority for a muslim,nevertheless he enjoins his followers to perform the lesse jihad(jihad of the sword)with as much virgour, so stop confusing yourself

olabowale:
That will allow me to give you a good mental beatdown.

you wish,all muslims have the slave mentality on account of what islam means"submission" and you being slaves to your GOD so no independent mind or any mental ingenuity of any kind

olabowale:
Iwo lo tun nso bayi? Laa oju inu e. I have explained abrogation. Now show me contradiction, while I show you contradiction as to the new testament, leaving out OT for the moment: Jesus love all and pray even for your enemy, but then he spoke about fire of lake. Try that for contradiction for if the "pray" thing was not borne out of hypocracy, you will expect everyone to go to paradise, except that you did not mean it, your reason for some to enter lake of fire, because there is no reason for "Lake of fire" or is there?

i am not ready to la any oju,i am asking you to explain a glaring inconsistency with your prophet and you r asking me to figure it out,na so??
it is the lake of fire,where every sinner who doesnt repent untill they die will go, however if you r still alive,he is willing and just to forgive us of any sin whatsoever, stop confusing yourself,or contradicting yourself like your prophet

olabowale:
@Godson2009: « #328 on: Today at 03:58:07 AM » (A onfession: I always hate to write your name since I know God has no son of any kind).Good argument is wasted on ignorants. Muhammad (AS) is truly a human prophet, a messenger! Like all other messengers and or prophets, properly labelled and identified, until we came to those who said they are christians who deviated from the religious way and instructions of Jesus and thereby elevated him to god, like the hindu did to their leader, like the buhhdist did to their leader!

abegi leave that thing,we have heard it all before!!

olabowale:
And in the long run he gets to Ibadan after sightseeing to make the journey interesting! Seyi a new revert to Islam has made it all worthwhile for me! She told her friend that she now know that there is One God and not fighting to understand three gods, one dying a death from the creation who hung him, the other a mere ghost shadowing and doing nothing but mounting, overpowering and overshadowing a virgin, yet no sex but a baby comes out; try that with your wife when you get married and she will tell you she experienced sex with you, though you may deny it, and the last a seditentary father, alsways asking for advise not able to do things on his own, a proof he is not truly the sole creator! Loo joko ojere, ko je kin gboron.

that is the point,how will you get to ibadan from lagos island?
you dont believe the account of mary and the immaculate conception yet you are ready to believe the lie mohammad told you ppl about his mother hearing voices about her unborn child being the lord of some people so your own mohammad was doing everything withiut asking from his allah?no wonder, lol

olabowale:
Yet Jesus said I did not come to abrogate but to fulfill the laws and prophets? And yet he is billed as the third and now you said he had nothing to do with it? Was he not the author as a god? And or (lol) not the Melchezdek? And or the first Adam or at least the second (Adam), or just the statemennts from your mouths only, without any standing firm behind them? Ogbeni, odu e ti poju.

no sire,jesus said he came to fullfill the prophecies namely that GOD will send his son to die for the sin of mankind,and all that he will go through e.t.c,i said he has nothing to do with for instance the battles and manner of ruling by the old testament prophets,is that so hard to comprehend alhaji or you r doing this on purpose??
dont even go near the melchizedek,because you dont have any idea, open a thread and i will break it down to brass tacks for you.
i wouldnt attempt to explain the first or second adam to you,so you dont get confused, this explanations should suffice

olabowale:
Muhammad (AS) did not validate neither the OT nor the NT, the reason we say your Bible is corrupt, not having a 100% purity! Where did you get lost in this before you came up with your hyperboly?

i never mentioned him validating the new testament,i said he validated the old testament by his own surmission and admission that he recognised and accepted the messages of the prophets abraham,moses,noah e.t.c if you check the old testament,were these prophets your mohammad mentioned and recognised make up a large chunk of the old testament so what are you on about,are you confused alhaji?agba ti de right??

olabowale:
Because he did not rob anyone on the highway thats why. You even complained that cutting of hands of thieves is very harsh for the crime of thiefery. If anyone stop me from taking hold of my properties because I was weak, when I become strong, you better believe that I will come for it, if I have the chance to do so, so if you call that highway robbery, and blame me for trying to get back my properties, am happy.

ill repeat again for like the 1 millionth time,what of the innocent yemeni traders he continually robbed on their way to mecca??did they owe him anything or even know him?this is another contradiction in islam,if anyone's hands need to be cut,the law should start from mohammad because he is guilty of stealing from others, let us even assume that the meccans persecuted him,what is the correlation between stealing from outsiders and what the meccans did to him??you keep on opening your islamic religion up for more slashings by the way go and read the hadiths,his actions were justified by the fact that,everybody was raiding to make a living at that time(meaning there was no denial)and secondly that he and his followers could not farm as they had no experience(meaning they ere lazy)in all accounts there was nowhere a supposed prophet of GOD actually tried praying for food,like biblical prophets did several times, thank GOD mohammad recognised abraham,moses go and see what they did each time israelites wanted food or water,they cried out to GOD,and he provided food and water, imagine a multitude wandering in the wilderness for 40 years, did mohammad try that?

olabowale:
His disciples during his time. The crusaders after him. The conquistadors and the Inquisitors after him, not even counting the usage of it in the military escorsions in colonizations, and the wars waged by Christian dominated countries. The civil war in America is a good example! Now I can laugh at you; lol, lol, lol. See o binu sha? I hate to see you get angry.

i wish you would open a new thread on this particular comment so that i can properly educate you sire, everything you have listed had absolutely nothing to do with christianity or religion,where in the new testament did you see jesus enjoining us to kill or maim non christians?they are just politics nothing else, it is like saying that christians perpetuated slave trade,the whites only used religion as a covering,if you want to know more,open a thread and i promise to post enopugh materials,including figures you can cross check, do you want the figures of all these battle s you have mentioned compared to the figures of suicide bombings?you will be suprised,me  a born again christian getting angry, nooo when im not a muslim being offered pork

olabowale:
He didnt say these two opposing things? One have to be incorrect and it is abrogated! Unless you dont know the meaning of abrogation. Do you know it?

in answer to your query,ill ask you did jesus ever say that he was equal to his father GOD??if he didnt then wats your point. lol now i know you r tired,sorry sire i know its not easy defending this prophet mohammad lol

olabowale:
God one time and human the next; thats abrogation! O mo nkon ti won npe ni a fikon paro ikeji ni? Omo, I see say Mel Gibson fooled you to almost become a billionaire! Mel Gibson who is living a life that belittles al of the passion of the Christ mumbo jumbo; a skirt chasing drunk and you fell for his gimmick? Maybe I should make my own movie and somehow a billion people like you may just fill up the theater, with a dollar coming to me, then I already have my billion!

he came as a human being,alhaji is english comprehension a problem for you?maybe its because of all the arabic you have been reading sorry sire,
the point is not mel gibson,the point is that the movie will give you an idea of what jesus christ went through, when you see the movie imagine yourself going through that,then judge if you will ask why GOD had abandoned you or not in that situation

olabowale:
If I show you the two verses, will you leave Christianity? I want you to answer then I will show you the verses and you shall become Muslim! Please respond to me now. And my job will be done. I am waiting. Thanks.

that is not what i meant sire,the fabu is that you r trying to twist an isolated incident where jesus christ said to a woman about dogs eating crumbs from the foot of the table,and the woman replied that she doesnt mind, that has nothing to do with abrogation,he was simply testing the woma's patience and perseverance,if you read further he eventually healed the woman so how is that abrogation?
even though i read the quran,i have ample time to study my bible

olabowale:
@Godson2009:If you believe that Muammad (AS) a human being, like Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, (I intentionally keep Ismail out of this discussion), Jacob, Joseph, etc and you say Jesus is god, then, if Jehovah or Yahweh who sent Moses abrogated his message with either the Book of David and or the message of Jesus, the god, then where is your complaint, if you are complaining about what an ordinary man, Muhammad did?

while ignoring everything else,so you agree with the bolded that mohammad was an ordinary man like you and me?then there is no point in the debate anymore then,in fact i excuse all the vices he got up to in his life time because he is only human so why are you ppl willing to kill and die for an ordinary man now?

olabowale:
Now let isolate the Book of god Jesus to see if Jesus, Yahweh and ghost got their story straight the very first time so that we can go back to the human Muhammad and see how he fairs against these three titan of gods! So we hear that Jesus said that he did not come to abrogate the prophets and their laws, then he changed it by abrogating everything to love with all your heart God and neighbor!

alhaji olabowale,a friendly advice,if you dont understand the bible,simply ask christians to explain it to you,i can say with all honesty that everything you have written is like someone going to ibadan with the car facing third mainland bridge

did jesus christ directly perform the acts in the old testament?
these acts were performed directly by the prophets no?in the same bible you find several instances where GOD publicly said he was ashamed of and angry with his own prophets,because of anger as much as GOD loved moses,he punished moses by making him see the promised land,but never stepping his foot,im sure you know the story of samson,gehazi,ananias and saphira,david and the punishment e.t.c this is to show you that GOD was not happy about many decisions taken and the bible was careful and meticulous enough to include it in the bible other wise you wouldnt have seen them to bring them up here now check this,

1.jesus christ who was not involved in any way,shape or from untill the new testament came to right the wrongs in the new testament and love had always been his message from the beginning of his ministry to the end, he raised lazarus up from the dead because of the love,he associated and eat with sinners,he stuck the ears of the people who came to capture him back when peter cut off one of the servants ears, are these not signs of love?

2.mohammad himself validated the old testament because he told you in the quran that he has not come to change the message passed down to the biblical prophets so what are you on about?are you disagreeing with your own prophet by saying the prophets are wrong?

olabowale:
Another is that dont call anyone a fool because you will go to hell and he abrogated it by calling many persons or at leas a man a darn fool!

when mohammad told you to live a holy life,why didnt you copy his lifestyle by robbing people on the highways?are we guided or judged by the same laws?

olabowale:
Another: He said people should buy sword and when they began to use it, he abrogated it by saying whoever lived by sword will die by it!

again you are writting gibberish sire lol,what is jesus own with the phrase? whoever lives by the sword?? when during or after jesus's ministry did anyone use a sword?? lol lol

olabowale:
Another God and Jesus are the same and then he abrogated it by hear oh Israel, your God and my God is but One Lord.

what on earth is the meaning of this imam olabowale??lol lol u need rest

olabowale:
Another: He volunteered as the lamb and he abrogated it my crying out: My God, my God, why has though forsaken me?

there is no abrogation because he came in human form with human desires, he cried because of the pains,remember he was human and could feel pain,would you rather have him smile with all he was going through?go and see passion of the christ

olabowale:
Another: Loved all and then he abrogated it by calling some tribe dogs.

is this fabu or you r just joking??show me where in the bible??lol alhaji fabulous

olabowale:
Another: He forgives everyone then he abrogated it by saying that in the heaven he will even say i dont know you to many miracle perfoermers.

again,you are confusing yourself he never did,he forgives everybody irrespective of your sins,the people he will deny are these that have denied him point blank on earth up untill the point of their death,he said fake prophets who use the devil's names to perform miracles and lie with his names will be punished,as a religious man im sure you agree with this no?

olabowale:
Another: He was the son, then he abrogated it as being the father, then another abrogation when he bacame the ghost!

where did he do that?you are now confusing and abrogating yourself,maybe because you v been abusing the term soo much

olabowale:
Am tired of listing the abrogations, but you got the idea. If these gods cumulatively could not even perform up to par with human Muhammad (AS) why the fuss? This you must get now. No?

i agree too,you r right they couldnt match mohammed's sexual libido,and hedonism
they couldnt shed blood,especially innocent blood
they couldnt steal and take what is not theirs
they couldnt take their step son's wife
i am waiting for you to list proper abrogations like i have listed abeg

olabowale:
If I used the same issues and conclusions that you have used for Muhammad (AS) then your gods are collectively guilty of the same, except that what Muhammad provided as abrogation is progressively the same or better from what is left. Unfortunately, your three gods, too the opposite of what the left, while you say that it is still even applicable! Have you seen a boy who mounted or overshadowed or overpowered his mother before playing daddy?

please use the same conclusions you have used,because then you would have pronounced your mohammad guilty by your own mouth lol

how is the jihad without compulsions,without truce and fighting and killing all non muslims better than the former defensive jihad?
how is respect of the holy month,with no fighting abrogation better, is it then better for you to rob and pillage innocent traders?after all the former truce was broken by your prophet of all times during a holy month all because of greed of spoils of war.

i will not allow you to side tract me from my original question

explain why mohammad abrogated,contradicted himself so many times in the quran/hadiths
was it because he was a simple normal human being and not a prophet?hence he was susceptible to normal errors?
was his allah the one who made the mistake either by giving him a wrong prophecy or incomplete?

Abuzola:
@godson- you are gullible, you yourself testify that pre islam so whatz your knocke. The kaaba was built by Prophet Ibrahim and isma'il and they were the first to worship God there, they pray to God that their offspring too should be guided to the kaabah see Quran 2:125-129, we worship just like our father Ibrahim worship, we do not worship kaabah we worship Allah see 2:135, unlike the christian that worship ghost.

leave all that story,am i right or wrong?simple if you want to defend uplawal,she cannot be your 3rd wife she is happily hooked up with one of your brothers so leave all that voltron moves

uplawal:
story, av read all that before,na today

eh don tay,think about worshipping the sun and moon sha,they r more or les idols also there are still some idols in the confines of the kaaba o, why do you think people are crushed every year in the your pilgrimage in mecca?why is it that it is a yearly occurence, tell us before you go so we can pray for you o

yes it is o,are you speaking in tongues,

uplawal:
@godson,whatever,you describe it with,is still the best

lol what exactly is the bestlol lol if you r selling medicine in a molue and you cant adequately answer all the questions being asked you about its effectfullness,you either dont have any business selling that medicine or the medicine is not worth the bottle its inside lol

Deep Sight:
Tell me, would it make a difference if those funds are funds sourced from the contributions and tithes of Church members?

yes but who is to say that he definitely sourced the money from contributions of members, you dont seem to realise that the moden church has gone past the pastor or g.o dipping his hands into church till,and any church still doing that is most likely to be a struggling church, the case of pastor ashimolowo versus the charity church in uk is a prime example, just like you,they saw the balance sheet of the church accounts with in excess of 12 million pounds,and erroneously assumed that the man had to be indulging in something shady,not untill they realised that just on his personal books and audio tapes and dvds alone,he makes millions,coupled with church members sowing into the pastor's life/personal ministry.

i have been priviledged to go with an evangelist to a 3 days programme in london,and i can tell you that nothing less than 3/4 people came to meet him and just squeeze envelopes of money into his palms i know how much he dashed me for even going with him for 2 days,now imagine the status of bishop oyedepo and pastor adeboye,
i know of a white british woman who gave pastor adeboye a house in birmingham,his house in swiss cottage london was given to him free of charge, a white american businessman gave reedemed their hectares of land in america,the man actually looked for pastor adeboye and gave him the land,he was never a member of redeemed neither is he a member till today, point of my pre amble is that these men of GOD get blessed financially in soo many ways that you wouldnt realise unless you spend time with them

Abuzola:
Don't be ridibulous, which hadith did i reject, quote it and post the link here, is not a new thing thats what christianity has been breeding

yea right,you rejected the bukhari hadiths,so i should start looking through all my posts because of you?nice try anyway i guess you officially agree that bukhari hadiths is valid

na by force??we christians are not part of you,and your mohammad has enjoined you not to be our friends and to kill us and cut off our fingertips so why are you continually plagiarising our bible and our lord and savious jesus christ?

our brother jews trusted mohammad the first time,and as soon as he finished using them,he dumped them,we are wiser now and we dont want to mix our religions with yours sorry

uplawal:
@godson,ALLAH(SWT) is mostwise, the reason is simply cos of lust,so that Adultery and fornication can be avoided

im sorry but there is a question mark on the wisdom of your own allah or mohammad for that matter,so what happens AFTER they leave the mosque?
will the men close their eyes?
if they will still commit fornication and lust even after the women are wearing loose fitting hijab,then your muslim men should be ashamed of themselves o, no wonder they cant control or hold themselves to one woman,im praying for you too jare that in jesus name GOD will put your husband in the right frame of mind to marry a couple more women in addition to you so the house will be full of joy and laughter amen,this is why i keep saying the hearts and minds of the worshippers is more important focus than these half measures of averting your gaze e.t.c

bunch of contradictions,they have so much respect for women,yet they can marry up to ten or more women, me ni olorun wi

Deep Sight:
@ Godson, dont be naive. That explanation was only dished out as an afterthought. Remember that the scandal raged for weeks before they eventually came up with that cock and bull story.

So what would you say about the fact that Bishop Oyedepo of Winners Chapel has now ordered a second private Jet?

I am sure you will be happy to defend that as well?

shows you dont know anything about the issue in question,neither do you know pastor adeboye's nature.
everybody in nigeria and outside knows that by nature,he is not a talkative person,go through every controversy and you will realise he wouldnt say anything,that is his nature even in festival of life and holy ghost service, if he sees a vision and u dnt come out,he counts one to ten and moves on.

he is not under any compulsion to give an explanation in the first place,so for him to even do so, is a great credit to him,after all we the members of redeemed donating the money are not complaining, why should you care if you r not a member of redeemed,is your money involved?
go and ask your government that has not even deemed it fit to offer you any explanations at all on the corruption and graft to do so,and leave the man alone he is not responsible for the woes nigeria is going through so pls enough with the transfer of agression.

ill say kudos to oyedepo,as long as he can afford it and he didnt procure the funds through illegal or fraudulent means, even though you dont know me from adam,if i see you at the intl airport in october on my next journey to nigeria with a private jet ith deepsight from nairaland written on it,my brother i dont want to question you or beef you,i will shout that i am your good friend GODSON2009 from nairalan straight up

im starting to fear you and what you got up to while going to church o, why would you sit beside a man in the first place if you r not comfortable with him?when u can sit in between two women/girls?
oh can you clarify what you enjoy pls?

you enjoy the fact that females are second class citizens in islam?

or the fact that any female child you have has a tendency to be married off at 9 years old as long as your husband agrees with it.

or the fact that the woman can be whipped with koboko by the husband if she angers him

uplawal:
@GODSON, KAABA, is not and never IDOLATORY incase you dnt know,its just a form of unity,and if you google it,GOD made it insuch a way that we all face the direction,so its at the center of the earth,the celestial bodies are just for time and when and how to do somethings,check for your self,its even in the quran,ALLAH(SWT) told us that we should not worship them,so what are you saying?

my changing of church is as a result of relocation dear,or maybe i just fancy to attend thier vigil,thank GOD am done with their devilish speaking of tongue.too devilish,yebooooooooooreeeeeeyeeeekkkkaaaaaaa,shiooooooo.

you dont realise who you r talking to do you?
i have studied the quran and several hadiths for like a year now so im sorry but i know more about anyhting islam you can think of than you do.

the kaaba originally contained the 360 idols being worshipped by the pre islamic maccans,when mohammad conquered mecca,after his uncle who was the head of mecca that time urrendered to him,he took over the kaaba and that was when u muslims started to bow down to it, unity or no unity

you are bowing down to an ordinary image so that is idolatory, read your ten commandments, thou shalt not bow down to any image!!!
i have to be honest with you gys,you are worshipping an image coloured black,which used to house proper idols hence the demons of the idols are still resident in the kaaba.

u worship an image due to unity,so u will go to hell for unity?lol
didint you go to school,how will you allow people to rabble dazzle you with assertions without any sensible basis, what has centre of the earth got to do with worshipping your god?is your own allah resident in the centre of the earth??
the only entity still on earth is the devil so i dont know who your bowing to facing the centre of the earth,

i understand you are a new convert,so i will give you the benefit of doubt that you made a mistake,go and ask your boyfriend well and then correct yourself where necessary because this doesnt make sense.

if the celestial bodies guide how to do your activities and for time,does that not reinforce my comment that you are worshipping idols?
let me ask you if anyone told you that you should consult obatala or sango each time before you go to work,wouldnt you reply the individual that you dont need that because you believe in your allah?

its same thing,what do you need the sun and the moon to direct you for,when you pray five times daily and have even started copying us now by doing night vigils unless you people dont connect with your allah or your own allah is silent and cant talk or communicate, even white garment churches and annointed men and women of GOD in pentecostal churches see visions and GOD speaks to them regularly,yet you are still relying on a moon and star,its in the quran because the quran is part of the idol worship now, who told you to use the moon and the stars?
who told you to bow down to a black image?
and who gave you all the quranic texts?
to the three,same answer mohammad.

so you changed churches like multiple times, tell us why you were changing houses so frequently, hmmmmn

yes yea so they dont speak in tongues in islam?
what is the definition of tongues?it is being under the aunction of the holy ghost,and then you start speaking another language of a nation on earth!!maybe a yoruba man speaking spanish,or a spanish speaking swahili is that not truelly awesome?so you like vigils let me invite you to one in london tnite where an annointed man of GOD will be ministering

Abuzola:
@godson
instead of you making fool of urself it will be better if you ask a 3 years old muslim child to teach you about islam and the Prophet

ok then sire i will do the bolded immediately,
3 yrs old abuzola,will you teach me about islam and the prophet?

good for you,make sure you dont stand behind any man who has just eaten some eggs and beans o and i hope you r getting used to standing at the back and doing everything seperate from the men in islam after siting side by side with males in church

dont worry im not interferring,was it not with your own mouth that you rejected the bukhari hadiths i posted last week??what kind of people are you gys sef

when it suits your purpose,yu can admit the same bukhari to back up your own point??
seeing as you have now admitted this same hadith to back up your claim,i guess vevrything the same person says can be seen as the truth then right?
you think we dont know the difference between the hadiths?lol

na wa for jobless ppl o, how many times will this issue be thrashed out?
the jet is not his but a bussiness venture by some private bussiness people who happen to be members of redeem,in a parish of millions,where there are millionaires and billionaire business ppl what is a 4 b private jet

uplawal:
dawo dawo dawo sile olorunx2
owo iyanrin abayanrin lo
dawo sile olorun  

i know your mouth will be sharp like razor,answer the question why you have to pray behind the men,even if they fart in your faces while their bum is in the air

please let us be grateful at least that we will be getting good roads,left to the government people will still be dying on that road for years to come while we r complaining and moaning,if the 100 naira will mean i can live in ibadan and work in lagos,or that i can make lagos to ibadan in about 35-45 minutes then it is value for money for me,let them privatise other infrastructures as well so that we can at least have the choice maybe sucessive government s can them start to talk about how fair the concessions are

uplawal:
my pointing to the fact that am not an ABORISHA like you people does not mean am rude or arrogant,if you meet me,i bet you u cant resist me o

yes now,i see the christian light glowing from you now that is why you r irresistible,ou know how many imams and stuffs are dancing with joy the day they finally captured you to their side?
let us address the thread,i have narrated my own experience,how did you give your life to allah and the reasons? dont be shy o