₦airaland Forum

LukasPodolski:
This is not even something to argue on.

You can't rewrite history, Ironsi killed the Regional government.

History according to Ibadan-Lagos express way media propaganda machine, okwaya?

The whole secession clause argument is built on the the conjecture that it would have helped Eastern region secede without war in 1966.

That's a big assumption that is not taking many variables into consideration.

1. The seccession clause is a civilian law that would have been only enforcable by the civilian government and parliament.

2. Now here is the catch. Nigeria in 1966/67 was a military dictatorship who ruled by decrees and not civilian constitutions.

3. Gowon had no problem altering any part of the constitution that would make Biafra secession impossible. He dissolved the regions, and changed the derivation formula of the new states.
Under this circumstances, we can as well assume that he would have quickly have abolished the secession clause and replaced it with a new decree that would make secession impossible.

4. Bottom line is that the secession clause argument is a redundant one by Yorubas meant to justify their desire to keep Ndiigbo in a failed union with themselves in Nigeria.


Another argument is that Awolowo involvement in 1967-70 events are justified because Zik opposed secession clause earlier that Awolowo wanted.
Now, that's another funny one. This would only make sense if Awolowo declared independence from Nigeria and Zik supported the North to march with army to Yorubaland to enforce Nigeria unity.
This never happened, thereby rendering the whole argument a waste of time.

diplomat058:
No, the talk about secession is not a nonsense. Let me tell you how things would have played out if it was included in the 1960 constitution.

Of course, the constitution is always suspended when there is a successful military coup. But Soldiers rule by martial codes called decrees and in Nigeria, the decrees were mostly extracts from the suspended constitution to provide an operational framework for governance.

And whenever military men were about to hand over, they would oversee the creation of a new constitution. The new constitution was always drafted in reference to that of the old. The only major transitional changes that occurred were only between the 1963 and the 1979 constitutions in the change from parliamentary region-based federal republic to a presidential state-based federal republic. The rests were strictly replicas and minor reviews of the old.

Now, if the secession clause was in the 1963 constitution, would the Biafra secession be much of a big illegal deal, technically? If the clause was to be removed in the succeeding constitution of 1979, would that not spark chaos and resistance like that of June 12?

Gowon and Awolowo that dissolved the regions in attempt to stop Biafra exodus would have allowed the secession clause exist so that Biafrans can activate and leave Nigeria?


Are you listening to yourself?
The regions were constitutionally inshrined, even Ironsi didn't abolish them, he only centralized civil service and command structures, yet Gowon and Awo had no fuss dismantling the regions, yet you want the audience to believe they would have allowed a stupid clause stay?
Military decrees only legitimate parts of the constitution that doesn't interfere with their own agenda. Anything else that does, is easily changed.

The period of history was a dictatorship era. Secession clause is a civilian law. If the regions went, so would have the clause.

All I see with this redundant secession clause arguments is that Yorubas are in love with Nigeria and are in hunt for whatever senseless reason to justify why Ndiigbo should continue existing in same country with them.
Because it doesn't even make sense anymore.

Secession clause wouldn't have made things easier for the Eastern region, as the clause would have been the first thing Awolowo and Gowon would tackle, seeing the way they easily dissolved the regions.

LukasPodolski:
Well, I will not rubbish your opinion sir.

But don't let us shy away from the fact that There is division in the country which will always justify my use of the word "HOST"

If we can send away Almajiri from Southern Nigeria then I have every right to call myself a host, are almajiris not Nigerian?
If a certain ethnic group can carry out a coup targeted at others.
A major ethnic group being referred to as betrayers. And lots more.

The above justified my use of HOST.

But who do we blame? What is the way out?
The way out is separation and the last ethnic group to call for division is Ndigbos because their Foremost Leader was the only one that supported removal of succession clause.

Restructuring : Nigeria was practicing Regional government before an Igbo man abolished it.
Today the ethnic group clamouring for Division and restructuring are the Ndigbos.

The blame should be on diversity (an Ndigbos for supporting it from the start).

Personally I wouldn't blame Buhari because if I were him I will Care for my tribe more than others.

Ironsi never abolished the regions.
When Ironsi died. There were four regional military regional governors still intact.

Gowon with Awolowo support abolished the regions and created dysfunctional states, because they were only interested in sowing seeds of division in Biafra and not looking out for Nigeria interest thereafter.
They chose to abolish the regional set ups over accepting Aburi agreement.
Let's stop with the history revisionism already.

The blame of dissolution of Nigeria regional structures lie fully on Gowon and Awolowo, ie Northern and Yoruba table.

If Gowon and Awolowo didn't dissolve the regions, by the time Mutala Muhammad was killed And OBJ handed handed over to Shagari.
Nigeria would have still had four regions and would simply reverse back to default regional settings.

diplomat058:
Bro, once again, your post is erroneous.

I debunked your claim that Yorubas are always united by hate, by giving you a rundown of historical events that proved otherwise. The Kiriji war was a civil one and civil wars are not peculiar to Yorubas. Just as I highlighted some civil wars among the greatest of the world civilization. I don't know why you had to bring back the defeated claim.

And you said Igbos are always united by hate. Well, I am just knowing that from you. Yorubas don't hate people, rather, we are united by love. Love to have a strong and prosperous nation. Hate is not an option; how many people do you want to hate? Millions? Hate makes you hallucinate at nights. The Yorubas don't hate any ethnic group in Nigeria. We only look out for ourselves and our prosperity and peace, and when you are in the way, we may come together to run you over. After the scores are settled, we will again be at peace with you. That is called STRATEGY OF SURVIVAL. Some people, naively, call it betrayal, but we don't care.

So, know that the Yoruba Man is not after you. If he is, some won't prosper so much in his land that they begin to question its established indigenousness.

You defeated no claim. Kiriji and operation Wetie are living proofs of Yoruba inability to live relatively peaceful with each other when other groups are out of the picture. Civil Wars do occur, but yours were more than that. The Western region once Midwest left broke down into Awolowo and Akintola factions. If not for Nzeogwu stupidity who gave you lots respite by going to start a stupid coup, your region was about imploding.

National unities are built on hate. You don't deceive anyone. When Yorubas were delivering Yoruba Ronu speech, where you demonized Ndiigbo to unite yourselves, that's the hate.

When you go green with envy and start plotting evil at the mention of Biafra or Igbos, that's hate.

Nations are built on hate. Hate for subjugation, hate for domination, hate for poverty, hate for ideologies.
You unite a people by giving them something to hate and fear.

Yoruba and love? Hmm.

All over Social media, I see Yorubas convulsing like earthworms on salt at the mention of Biafra. You deceive no one.
Stay on your lane, and Ndiigbo will not mind you.
We have no desire to share a country with you, we expect the feelings to be mutual. But your negativity towards Biafra betrays this.

omonnakoda:
The fundamental problem with Ibos is lies,dishonesty and revisionism

If anyone has done anything to keep you in Nigeria against your will it is Hausa and Fulani
Why are you too cowardly to face them.
Why transfer your aggression to Yoruba.
Stockholm Syndrome

Your antecedents in the first republic are well known to those old enough to remember directly or from research.
You want Yoruba to pretend those things did not happen.

You concoct the fiction of Yoruba fighting to keep you in Nigeria. What is our business with you? . It is cheap emotional blackmail. Did Yoruba bring you into Nigeria?

Has any Ibo elected politician ever done anything to actualize Biafra?

You don't get Biafra by force or rabble rousing.

In Africa you do not marry a woman by making an announcement in the market. There is a procedure.
If you want Biafra your leaders know what to do?it is not a 5 month project. You need to decide are you going to follow a democratic approach or use force of arms. That is YOUR CHOICE. Nothing to do with us. If you try force then be prepared to face the consequences
If not start electing people committed to Biafra to fight for it. For now you have not communicated to us officially they want Biafra, it is a rumoy

What did you do about Biafra when Goodluck Jonathan was in power?

Yorubas were part and parcel of the alliance that fought to keep Igbos in Nigeria between 1967-70.

Infact it was noted by neutral observers that Yoruba hate for Biafra surpassed those of other Nigerian groups.

Adekunle scorpion was shooting at anything that moves in PH, Taiwo was involved in Asaba massacre.
Your people were very active in Nigerian civil war effort.
Awolowo was the masterminder of the starvation policy that killed millions of Igbos in bid to end Biafrans resolve to fight.
Even today, the most active and vocal resistance to Biafra on internet are Yorubas.

We can get Biafra by any means we think it's best. It's not in your place to tell us how to go about it.
If it's actually true you have nothing against us getting Biafra, how we go about it shouldn't be your damn concern you would even help us speed it up.
But the reality on ground betray your lies. You hate the mention of Biafra.


You don't see any Igbos worried about how you are going about your Odua republic, we just want you to sincerely go for it.

diplomat058:
Lol.

Well, if you refuse to acknowledge Zik and Ironsi's complicities, then I am afraid that your points are all baseless. You said Zik didn't force Balewa and Bello for the removal of the secession clause, that he just advised them to wreck regional autonomy. I am poised to ask you that did Awo force Gowon to blockade Biafra? Did he force him to create the state system? 'No', of course, is the answer. So, we are even. If Ironsi had dine the needful, we wouldn't have had a war, I still insist. The January coup was reputed to have ethnic rationale and when Ironsi came in, all his actions effectively justified and affirmed the suspicions. He first passed unification decree 34 to centralize powers in the hands of his people and then refuse to court martial the perpetrators of the coup, in defiance of signs of impending national upheavals. That was the height of insensitivity and arrogance. When the gates of hell were finally opened, Zik, the self acclaimed nationalist, was standing by the secessionists. when the war substantive turned in favour of the federal troops, Zik renounced his support for Biafra and joined the Nigerian side. That alone exposed him as an opportunist who was only concerned with self gratification. He only masqueraded with the nationalist show to gain power in the West, unsuccessfully.

Now let's make one thing clear. Zik never stopped any one from secession clause. And Awowolo or Western region never seceeded and Zik sent army to bring them in.
Awo not only advised Gowon on dissolution of the regions. He followed it up by pushing a starvation policy to keep Igbos in Nigeria. Awolowo was very vocal in starvation policy promotion.

Ironsi never dissolved the regions. So we agree on that one.
Gowon did, and he had the active support of Awolowo to do so.


Since we are talking about secession clause here.
Let's do a little historical time line breakdown.

If by any chance, the secession clause stood? How exactly could it have helped Biafra in her secession plans?
The moment the military took over, the constitution ceased to exist. It was all about military decrees.
In the period under discuss, Nigeria was not a republic but under military dictatorship. Secession clause like the regional arrangement Gowon met would not survive.
And the constitution before the war were all altered post civil war by 1979 when the republic returned. Starting from the derivation formula to the regional government.

This whole talk of secession clause talk to me, is a redundant and senseless argument instituted By Yorubas to obfuscate issues and justify their support for Nigeria unity.

LukasPodolski:
Mr igboid The British made Lagos the capital of Nigeria after the amalgamation, Now:

Can you tell us why the British didn't find any of Onitsha, Port Harcourt Enugu e.t.c Worthy of being the capital?

Considering Lagos wasn't the only coaster State.

Lagos was not even in the centre of Nigeria.

Can you please tell us why the British made Lagos the capital going by the above.

They were always choosing coastal areas to build capital cities, I mean the Western colonialists.
This is because, they came strictly for exploitation of the continent, so they usually built their base to the nearest point of exit of exploited raw materials from the colony to the sea, which is the coasts.
Look at West African map. Lome, Porto Novo, Abidjan, Accra, Monrovia, Conakry, etc are all colonial capital cities, they were all facing the Atlantic.
Onitsha was inland so stood no chance.

Ph port had too many mangrove swamps leading from Atlantic coast to Land, it made navigation of big vessels hard. Calabar port were shallow I learnt.
They had to choose between Lagos and Calabar, Lagos won in the end.
It wasn't anything to do with Lagos indigenes (Egun/Ijebu/Aworis/Tapa), it was strictly business for the British.
Perhaps if Lagos colony wasn't amalgamated to Southern colony in 1906. If Lagos colony became an independent country of its own. Calabar would have become the capital of united Nigeria comprising of current SE/SS and North, while Lagos will be the capital of a small Yoruba only country.

diplomat058:
So much fallacies are inherent in your post. If you talk of unity, I believe the Yorubas did set a precedence for most kingdoms and civilizations west of the Niger. What political unity supersede the building of an empire? The Oyo empire was a testament of the cooperative sagacity of our forefathers. Also, there was cultural unity as all Yoruba kingdoms pledged existential allegiances to Ile Ife which they all regarded as the cradle of Yoruba civilization.
If Yorubas weren't united, the Fulanis wouldn't be defeated twice in Osogbo war of 1840, and in the 1870s. The Ibadan generals led the coalition army, defeated the Fulanis, went to Ilorin to cut off the head of their Emir, but the Ilorin people, for Islamic reasons, decided to keep the Emirate, instead of returning to the traditional monarchy which they called pagan and an islamic Haram.

Yoruba people cooperated via OPC, NADECO and others to press for a Yoruba presidency, as a compensation for the Abiola case.

You talk as if civil wars are alien to mankind. Even some of the world greatest civilizations experienced civil wars. The English had theirs in the 17th century. The German had theirs which led to the expulsion of Germanic Austria from the then German Confederacy. The Italians had series of wars among themselves, viz a viz Venetia, Milan, Lombardy, Napoli, Sicilia and the rest, until Mazini and Garibaldi, great nationalists, united the country in 1870. Would you say Italians were a primitive people?

Many of you guys just analyse history from a wrapped mindset and at their best, your prejudiced analyses are best reserved for the bin.

Your unification against Fulanis explained my point.
You were united by common hate for Fulanis.

Once the Fulanis were out of the way, you fell back to fighting each other. You couldn't find an abstract thing to replace the hate with.

Hate is a good way to unite people.
But it shouldn't be hate for others. It should be hate for abstract things.
For example, the Igbos are all over the world both in slavery and at home united by hate for subjugation, retrogression, failure and marginalization.
In modern times, we hate Nigeria as an entity because she embodies the above characteristics.

We only hate you when you are seen to be supporting and promoting things we hate.
For example, it would appear Igbos hate Yorubas, when in truth, it's Yorubas penchant for subtly fighting to keep Igbos in Nigeria that we hate.
The Igbo is united by hate for failure or retrogression which was why Buhari could never sell in SE despite having two Igbo VPs, and while Abia and it's leadership are continuously bashed currently by other Igbos.

diplomat058:
Well, I am not really keen on the blame games. For the records, Awo and Gowon are also entitled to knocks in that regard, but exonerating Zik and Ironsi is a betrayal of history. In the pre-independence, Zik paraded himself as a core nationalist and sought sought to undermine the regional structures and mutate self determination. He effectively convinced the NPC to remove the secession clause from the constitution. He favoured the centralization of powers to put the destines of all the peoples in common hands. Ironsi issued unification decree 34 which shattered the then viable federalism. Although the decree was short lived, I believe it prepared the psychosocial groundwork for the later undoing of Gowon who acted to salvage the country from dissolution. And don't forget that if Ironsi had done the needful, we may not have had a war.

That said, I wish the country was successfully torn apart then. I also blame Awo for his culpability in the wreckage of the then viable federalism. And

You are just beating round the bush.
Zik had no gun, he had no hypnotic powers. He only had his opinions. If others bought his opinion and favoured the unity of the country at that time as against having secession clause. How can you Yorubas extrapolate it to say that Zik stopped secession clause insertion?
Did Zik point gun at anyone? Was he a wizard that hypnotized others? How can you lots be this mischievous.

On Ironsi, I am glad we finally accepted that he wasn't the one who destroyed the regional arrangements. He only united the civil service, which didn't sit well with the North who had already said they would rather import Lebanese and other non black races to take up slots in Northern civil service than have qualified Igbos fill that post. Now tell me what real country or leader would allow that to continue if the aim is to build a functional united country.

Now you are giving excuses to justify Awolowo and Gowon evil of dividing the regions and setting into play the chain of events that led to Nigeria failure.
We are atleast getting to somewhere.
I will let you know that the road to hell are usually filled with good intentions.

It's time you Yorubas accept that Awolowo supported Gowon to kill and bury federalism.
It's time you stopped blaming Ironsi for sins of your own heroes.

You said Ironsi watered the ground? What exactly is the meaning of that?
What a lame excuse!

Did Ironsi or did he not dissolve the regions?
The Answer is No! Thank you.

Did Gowon with Awolowo counsel dissolve the regions and replaced them with dysfunctional states that led to Nigeria inevitable death?

The Answer is Yes! Thank you.

Every other thing is subjective analysis.

nijabazaar:
No. It's not bigotry darling. It's the reality.

Unless you are new here, which is I suspect, all the voracious attackers of biafra here are the Yorubas. Check the Biafran threads here, any critic of Biafra has a Ypruba monikers or known yoruba affiliations.


So, I still conclude that my dog has the greatest chance at forming five word syllables than an influential Yoruba convincing his people on the need to secede from Nigeria.

The yorubas like Nigeria as it is. And why is that? It could all be a primal fear of venturing into the unknown. They, the Yorubas and her affiliates , would rather stick to familiar grounds

Reasons for Yoruba love for Nigeria.

1. Lagos monopoly means that they will continue to economically exploit the rest of the country. They are hoping this continues so that through Lagos, they can spread development to the rest of their region.

2. They never fare well on their own. Remove the shared Igbo resentment and Yorubas will struggle to have a uniting factor.
They were on each others neck fighting kiriji during the precolonial days, they couldn't evolve to live in peace with each other.
Once the minorities were off in western region, Yorubas couldn't deal with themselves. They descended into anarchy again in the infamous wild wild west and operation wetie.
As a people, they are only united when they have a common foe to hate or try to oppress. When this doesn't exist, they turn on each other.
I have spent years analysing the Yorubas.

They need Nigeria and Igbo in it, to remain united. Modern day Yoruba nationalism is built around shared Igbophobia. This started from the "Yoruba Ronu" speech. When you want to unite a people, you gift them a common enemy to hate. Hate is a bigger uniting factor than anything else known to mankind.

Divide Nigeria, take Igbos out of the picture, modern Yoruba unity will crash again like in Kiriji and Wild wild west days.

diplomat058:
You are not far from the truth. Nnamdi Azikiwe's romance with the Ahmadu Bello's NPC to undermine regional self determination and JTU Ironsi's infamous unification decree 34 laid the foundation of the mess we are in today

Ironsi only unified the civil service. He never dissolved the regions.

It was Awolowo And Gowon in desperate move to divide Biafra, that dissolved the regions and replaced them with dysfunctional states we have today.
Awolowo (Yoruba) and Gowon (North), laid the foundation for Nigeria failure when they both sat down and dissolved the regions in desperate move to set the Eastern minorities against Ndiigbo, which did not still work. Because we know that without a military fiat, the minorities would have chosen Biafra instead of Nigeria.

flokii:
Who the Igbo man can't dominate, he won't like.. but they forget that you can't dominate someone more intelligent than you are.

We'll keep reminding them that they are the cause of Nigeria's woes today whether they like it or not. I wonder why History was removed from our school curriculum.

How exactly are Igbos the cause of Nigeria woes today?
I am out for you lots today. Those propaganda you peddle in Lagos-Ibadan express way, come forward let's put them to test .

flokii:
All you've stated could have been avoided if not for Azikiwe, Ironsi and the Easterners who fought the inclusion of a "SECESSION CLAUSE" in the constitution.

It could have been so easy. Anyone who wants to leave could leave without bloodshed but NO, Azikiwe out of greed and hope of Igbo dominace blew it all away.

So you see why we say the Igbos are the architect of this failing system we have today. The recklessness of their leaders in connivance with the North ruined everything.

Come 2023, Yorubas will take over governance in Nigeria and things will change.

There is no proof Zik stopped the insertion of secession clause, neither was there proof that Awolowo and Yorubas wanted out and zik led an army to keep them in.

AniOmaa:
Pazienza ogi nwe account ka?

Eeeh !

Good one Amarabae. Too bad Mynd44 and powers that be here would not allow my Eastern Region Series be.
Once I post any long post in the thread, they set a spambot to ban me.
I can't even make a post half as long as your opening post on this thread in any of my own threads without getting banned by spambots.

It's shameful what they are doing on this forum. Only the devil run away from light that facts bring.

Ebonyi1stson:
We in Ebonyi cannot live in denial. Please counter this statement from IPOB




“We are unstoppable and we cannot mind Ebonyi people who are not concerned on Biafra course, they have never behaved like Igbos”, he told Vanguard.

Who made him the spokesman of Igbos or Biafrans?
Who knows him. Who is he?
A nobody paid by Nigeria to come and play cheap divide and conquer tactics. Amadioha will kill the fool.

Umahi is the current Chairman of SE governors forum and Chief Enwo-Igariwey from Ebonyi was the immediate past president of Ohanaeze Ndiigbo.
Nobody knows who Ugochukwu Nweke is. For all we know, his real names could be Tijani Kayode Abdullahi.

Nnamdi Kanu speaking in Abakaliki

A visit by the leader of the pro-Biafra group, Indigenous People of Biafra, Nnamdi Kanu, on Monday visit to Abakaliki, brought the Ebonyi state capital to a halt as thousands of residents left their businesses to catch a glimpse of the controversial separatist leader.

Mr. Kanu, who is pushing for an independent Biafran state, is facing treason charges brought against him by the Nigerian government.

He was released on stringent bail conditions in May after about 18 months in detention. Amongst other conditions, the pro-Biafran leader was barred from granting interviews and holding rallies.

Mr. Kanu has gained popularity since his release from detention. Monday was his first official visit to Ebonyi State since his release, and residents eager to see Mr. Kanu, thronged major streets of Abakaliki chanting solidarity songs as his motorcade drove by.

The convoy entered the city via Presco flyover from the Enugu Abakaliki expressway into Ezza Road, causing traffic gridlock for hours.

It then proceeded through Ogoja Road, Afikpo Road back to Ogoja-Abakaliki Expressway, before terminating at Ezenwuba Primary School near mechanic village where he addressed the large crowd.

As the motorcade went along, it grew in length as residents joined with their vehicles, motorcycles and tricycles and on foot.

Police and other security agencies were on hand to escort the crowd to maintain order and forestall break down of law.

Addressing the crowd, Mr. Kanu who was garbed in Jewish regalia, said he was preparing for a bigger visit to the state.

“When next I visit Ebonyi, I promise you I will shut down Ebonyi state. Ebonyi is part of Biafra, let no one tell you otherwise,” he said.

No Igbo from Ebonyi should fall for this cheap divide and conquer tactics.
That stupid man is speaking for those who are paying him who are obviously enemies of Ndiigbo.

When NK was in Nigeria, he visited Ebonyi State and identified with our people there.

Ebonyi1stson:
Lets face reality for once. I am from ikwo in Ebonyi state, but truth be told, what we speak in Ebonyi is not igbo. Do you know that I dare not speak Ebonyi direct where igbos from say Anambra folks are gathering. Our language and culture is quite different from what igbos speak.

Ikwo man from Ogbomosho.

AreaFada2:

First off, I do not really care what Anioma call themselves. All I care about is that neither you nor me should decide for them. Period.
You called them Igbo, I agreed with you that since Kaduna came from Anioma, the North saw a chance to avenge the deaths of Northern leaders on Anioma people. Simple

I didn't call them Igbo. Since Anioma and Nigerians have decided they can slide in and out between being Igbo when it suits and being non Igbos when it doesn't suit them. I being a clever Igbo man, have also learnt to play the game too. I choose when to refer to Anioma as Igbos and choose when to call them Bini descendants. Three can play this game, don't you think so?
In Igbo we say, Aka onye weta ka aga eji so ya!

After Balewa was abducted and feared dead, Orizu had the chance to swear in Dipcharima at least as interim prime minister. Dip was Balewa's deputy. Or at least consult with Northern leaders who they'd prefer. He didn't. He would have bridged that vacuum. It would be left to the military to overthrow Dip. IBB did it to Shonekan. The North wisely chose two Northern presidential candidates in 1999.

Just as Ogundipe had the opportunity to take over from Ironsi as the next in command, but declined and ran for his life.
You all knew Ironsi wanted the power. You would be naive or mischievous to believe Orizu just handed the power to Ironsi out of volition.
Especially when doing so meant that Orizu and all civilian government officials were retired from power indefinitely.
No one hands power to another just like that. We have seen cousins go head to head for power and even siblings with non backing down for the other.
You only think Orizu handed over to Ironsi without coercion, because you are blinded by Igbophobia to think deep.
With the scale of massive killing of public officers that went on there, what are the chances that Orizu was in daze and couldn't act fast enough? I read a script too that NCNC were scheming to replace Balewa with an NCNC man.
Either way the delay allowed Ironsi to pounce, but it's madness to claim Orizu handed over to him because he was Igbo. He handed over to him because he was a military man with armed troops at his command.

For Ironsi to take Orizu into another room first smelt very fishy indeed.

You smell what you want to.
Ironsi probably took him into room to tell him his choices. Hand over to me in peace or do so in pieces was probably the message indoors. Orizu saved his own life like Ogundipe did. It's that simple. But of course once an Igbo man is involved, nothing is ever simple in Nigeria.

As for Ekukumeku, Banjo and a few other Yorubas fought on Biafra side but it doesn't mean Yorubas were on Biafra side.
Good that recognise Zik as fighting for a united Nigeria while Awo fought against it before independence. Maybe Zik born in Zungeru, Niger State, made his career in Lagos and widely exposed, saw how much Igbo needed Nigeria as a whole. Maybe you are wiser than Zik. Moreover, in Zik's book published in 1970, he clearly traced his origins to Benin.

Zik was shortsighted and a bit selfish. He wanted to rule over bigger Nigeria than just Igboland.
Ndiigbo never needed Nigeria, not now, not in the past. We spent 3yrs in Biafra telling the world that we don't need Nigeria, nothing has changed.
Ndiigbo need the world, the world is our play ground, but we need a secure place free of envious and Igbophobic non Igbo groups to call home. That's a given.
Zik is not a historian. His book claiming Benin origins is another chapter of his selfish one Nigeria support.
Ain't no Bini man that ever went by the name Ezechima, not now, not in the 16th century.
You have to be retarded to believe a man named Ezechima in 16th century or thereabouts was anything but Igbo. And Zik was supposed not to be a retard.
Zik is a funny character and it's not news that he is very unpopular among current Igbo youths. His lack of foresight is bare before all, and we are paying the price dearly.

As Nigeria stands, diversity is a massive curse now, we need to agree to disagree and go separate ways. Ideally like the two Koreas. We need another 60 years of total separation, since a peaceful separation will not be possible.[

Whether by peaceful or non peaceful means. Ndiigbo will surely find a way out of Nigeria, as long as night and day exists.

darfay:
What you should doubt is the 2006 census. My local government was third most populous now we are in 9th place and yet you don't see me complaining

Those are numbers of registered voters in Delta State and by 2023 the urhobo would have grown marginally higher than Anioma again

The figures are those of people with electoral power in Delta state and 47% of them are in urhobo and isoko land without even adding warri south. Just give it up
There are sizeable number of Isoko people in ndokwa East

Isoko in Ndokwa East are traditional migrants(tenants) there, and would have to assimilate into the culture of their host, if they want to continue living in peace there. After all, the Igbide in Isoko who were originally Igbos had fully assimilated as Isokos and there are many other towns like that, including Orogun who are now bilingual in Urhobo and Ukwuani.


The figures are not adding up.
I don't believe Urhobos outnumber Anioma by that much.
I would rather believe there was poor voters registration in Anioma which should be tackled by stakeholders there.

AreaFada2:

Good that you admit that Nzeogwu didn't face the law as failed coup plotters do. Like Dimka 10 years later. A Northerner who wasn't spared. That Nzeogwu was spared came from the fact that Orizu and Ironsi connived to give power to an Igbo man.

I don't actually think Nzeogwu should have been handed over to be butchered. I'm just playing along with the blame game and telling you where the buck of the blame stops and it's on Nzeogwu table.
Nzeogwu wasn't killed because of Fajuiyi who was Nzeogwu and his boys mentors and Ironsi right hand man. He was the one who advised Ironsi to save the boys and continually pleaded on the boys case. This angered the Northern soldiers and that's part of the reasons they marked him for death and indeed killed him. To cover up for why Fajuiyi was killed, the Lagos-Ibadan propagandan media machine spinned the lies of Fajuyi being killed because he was pleading for Ironi life.
I don't know what you meant by saying that Orizu connived to hand power to Ironsi. Ironsi was a military man with troops at his command and wanted power handed over to him. What did you expect Orizu to do? Say No to Ironsi and pay with his life or what? The sort of spin you lots give these narratives is mind blowing. Even Ogundipe a military man couldn't stand up to Gowon, but Orizu a civilian was expected to say no to military man with troops at his command, because he is Igbo. And he is being vilified for not defying a military man with troops to command?

If Okotie-Eboh, Bello or Balewa was your kinsman how would you interpret that move by two Igbo leaders and transferring Nzeogwu to a South Prison subsequently? Be honest with yourself.

Okotie-Eboh and Nzeogwu were Midwesters. How about that?
So how do you think we feel when Nigerians massacred Igbo military officers and went after civilians and still expect us to be country men with them since we are talking about feelings now.

Nzeogwu knew the consequences of failed coup as a soldier so why should he not face being butchered after butchering other people?

Since you justify invasion of Midwest as an enemy territory, you have just also justified whatever happened to Igbo in Midwest after Biafra invaded.

So there are now Igbos in Midwest. I thought they are all Bini descendants? You can't seem to keep your goalposts one place, can you?

What you forget is that Southern military governors supported Ojukwu position at Aburi. Only Hassan Katsina, governor of North Central opposed it. The memos are there to see.

So what happened when they reached home, why was the agreement reneged on?

Midwest vouched for Ojukwu's safety and organised post Aburi conference between FG and Ojukwu at NIFOR near Benin City. Even though Ojukwu visited Benin a day earlier he didn't come to NIFOR. To later say "on ABURI we stand" without coming to an agreed conference to officially hear whatever changes or give and take FG wanted was insincere and costly.

This is bunkum. Agreement is the end result of a negotiation. It's at negotiation table that you give and take. You can't come overnight and want an agreement to be changed again or amended, that's the aim of negotiations.
Nigeria was not safe for Ojukwu. Ejoor who was in control of Midwest was pro Nigeria. Ojukwu would have been stupid to accept any such stupid invitations after the Nigeria massacred Igbos a second time after they promised Ojukwu their safety and asked them to return back. Nigeria proved they don't play by any civil rules.

You reach an agreement on Aburi, you keep it. If you didn't keep it, then you have reneged on it, it's as simple as that

Go back to my posts years ago and you will see the following I have always said: that my family was one of the first to welcome Igbo back after the war, that Igbo kids my relatives midwifed that perished in the East were mourned like family when their parents came back, that poor handling of POST Biafra by FG and marginalisation of Igbo has led to the poor state of Nigeria and that 50 years on, with Nigeria not making any progress, Igbo should be allowed to go peacefully. In fact various people should have the chance to choose.

The thing I agree with you. Ndiigbo will never be comfortable existing in same country with Yorubas and the North after Biafra. It will never work. Our resentment of Nigeria will never stop until we are no longer part of Nigeria.

That way the question of who needs the other the most will be finally out to bed.

But Biafra war pre-empted any meaningful reorganization as it's used as a warning whenever any restructuring is touted.

Exactly. I don't think any of us need each other. We are totally different people. Separation and borders will make us good neighbors.

When Benin faced Britain in 1897, we didn't get the support of neighbouring tribes including Igbo. Even though many of the soldiers Britain used to attack and burn down Benin were from across West Africa including what is now Nigeria, but we do not blame other Nigerians for our fate.

.

Binis were not the only ones who fought British. Ekumeku of the west Igbos was even more fierce. And there was The Anglo-Aro war of 1901. A full year out and out war.
You don't see Ndiigbo blaming anyone for that one too.

Yet not everybody is against Igbo. But Igbo also need to see the mistakes they made leading up to the war

The only mistake I see leading to the war, was Zik shortsightedness in not realizing that Union between Ndiigbo and Yoruba /North is a destructive non feasible one. He had opportunity to fight for independence of Igboland as an independent country before Nigeria independence, but choose to fight for a United Nigeria.
That's the mistake present Igbo youths are hell bent on correcting. It was a life costing mistake.

darfay:
Loooooool

I'm talking of electorate not phantom population. Ughelli North alone is more than Aniocha nation

Nothing like phantom population. Kids grow up.
The figures of those Voters registration you posted is in total contrast to 2006 population figures for each of the LGAs. I doubt it's credibility.
Either that or there was voters under registration in Anioma areas.

darfay:
Look at the stats below urhobo Local governments and isoko has by faar the most electorate
Urhobo and Isoko has about 47% of the total vote while Anioma has 27%. The rest for itsekiri and ijaw and it is almost impossible for them to align with Anioma
Population growth rate is higher in urhobo area than Anioma
Look at the stats below from inec

I'm looking at the total population of Delta LGAs using 2006 census.
Maybe there is under registration in Voters card in Anioma areas.

darfay:
Isoko produced the first senator in 1999. I think it's because the isoko and urhobo people do not have a very strong political figure to rally their people

I attached a screenshot of the political strength of the 25 Local governments of Delta state. The 2 isoko local government has a slightly higher electoral strength than the three core ijaw local government. Urhobo in warri south can rally round an Isoko candidate so absolute numbers we can take it. The ijaw are into heavy rigging, voter turn out is always over 90%

The Urhobos have the highest political strength very superior to the Anioma people, you guys can monopolize the state like Tivs and ikwerre of benue and Rivers respectively. I know most of the local government are populated by outsiders by they are still mostly Hinterland Urhobos. The redelineation of wards in warri south has given Urhobos an upper hand. You people are supposed to be the power brokers in the state

Urhobo don't have the population to dominate Delta state. They outnumber Anioma but only barely.
Also don't forget that the migrant Igbo factor is going to be factor in Delta as years go by. More and more Igbos from SE are migrating to Asaba, Okpanam and environment to live and work, in time, it would work to Anioma advantage like its working to Ikwerre advantage in Rivers state.

Dedetwo:
[/b]


Since you copied the bolded from depth of lies, you have made a sermon out of it. There was nothing like federal election in 1965. There was federal election of 1964 which was boycotted by NCNC, AG, UMBC and NEPU. However during regional election in 1965, few boycotted areas saw election and majority of NCNC candidates were returned unopposed. The Elugaraonu saga was not Ikwerre issue. The contest was for Mile 2 Diobu district which was under Ahoada Cnetral District or constituency. The fight was between Orlu/Okigwe axis and Mbaise/Bende. Ikwerre was never a factor in the outcome that saw young Barrister Nwobidike Nwanodi who had no penny of his own or grassroots support to win in Ahoada Division. Mbaise/Bende axis wing of NCNC had adopted Nwobidike Nwanodi for Mile 2 Diobu in Ahoada Central District to regional house. Even though Mr. Elugwaraonu was from Mbaise, his town union has informed him that their support was marked for Nwobidike Nwanodi because Elugwaraonu stepped down as a candidate for Mayor of Port Harcourt. Elugaraonu insisted to run as independent and lost the election. Even as the election was concluded from the polls, it took tribunal headed by Chief R.B.K. Okafor which was setup by NCNC to resolve the political saga. Mr. Elugwaraonu was not the only prominent politicians who ran as independent and lost. Chief Emenike, the former and first Mayor of Port Harcourt, also lost as independent candidate.

Thanks for setting record right.

Imagine the type of lies these Igboids are spinning against Ndiigbo when Nwanodi himself was sponsored by an Igbo clannish group.

This was same with Eyo Ita, who had many Igbo supporters who together with him refused to step down when Zik wanted a reset button pressed. Those Igbo members were ejected from NCNC together with Eyo Ita, who they rallied around to form a new party and tried to wrestle power from NCNC and failed.
It was never a tribal thing. It was about ideological interests with Igbos fully represented on Eyo Ita and Zik sides, likewise minorities.

But modern day history revisionists have twisted everything to run along with their Igbophobic agenda.

Imagine S. O Omasi from Ogba was representing Onitsha province as the Commissioner when he wasn't from the province, simply because he lived and worked in the province all his adult life, hence NCNC found him worthy to represent the zone.
Ogba-Bini modern day Igbophobic revisionist would not note this when they start running their agenda of Igbos marginalizing them in Eastern region.

chrisxxx:
Do the people of Awgu deny they are Igbo? This is the fundamental question. It is not possible for more than one million persons to agree on what is not truth. Overwhelmingly the Ikwerres {Iwhurnohna) people generally say they are not Igbo. Every community of Ikwerreland says they are not Igbo. It os not not a group saying yes and the other saying no. It is not a matter of denying. It is a matter of who we are. Just take me as a brother. However I am not you.

Actually, there have been times in history billions believed in a lie. Like flat earth, demon causative theory of disease, the humoral balance theory of disease, the belief by many white races that blacks are subhumans, etc.

We know for sure that Ikwerre claim to Bini origin is a post 1970 historical shameful fabrication , we know that Ikwerre fully participated in Igbo Union activities before 1970.
We know that Ndiigbo never marginalized Ikwerres, because while we had non Ikwerre political office holders representing PH, we also had non Nkanu/Nike/Ngwo political office holders representing Enugu capital, we had an Ogba man by the name S. O Omasi, an Ogba man from ONELGA serving as provincial commisoner for Onitsha province in Eastern region.
What then, should Onitsha and Enugu people have started crying of Igbo domination, by tagging other clans Igbos and themselves non Igbos, because a non Onitsha or Enugu indigene was picked by NCNC to represent the province?

See the list of provincial commisoners in Eastern region below. :
Eastern Regional Provincial Commissioners
1. Michael C. Awgu [ Igbo : Awka ] - Abakaliki province
2. Peter Aka Onwe ( Igbo : Ishielu ] - Ananng province
3. Akpan Ekukinam Bassey ( Annang : Ikot Ekpene ]- Calabar province
4. Nicholas L. P. Apreala ( ljaw : Nembe ] -Degema Province
5. E. A. Chime [ Igbo : Udi ] - Enugu Province
6. Edwin Dumpe Sigalo [ Ogoni : Ogoni ] -Ogoja Province
7. S. O. Masi [ Igbo : Omoku ] -Onitsha Province
8. A. O. Chikwendu [ Igbo : Bende ] - Owerri

9. Michael Etta Ogon ( Boki : Ikom ] -Ph Province
10. R.O. Iwuagwu [ Igbo : Okigwe ]- Umuahia Province
11. Daniel James Edoho ( Eket : Eket ]-Uyo Province
12. Philetus George Warmate [ ljaw : Degema ]- Yenegoa
et November , 1961 , No. 71 , Vol . 10
ESTERN NIGERIA Notice No. 1275
APPOINTMENT OF PROVINCIAL กาล COMMISSIONERS

chrisxxx :

Bros I feel your pain. I am Ikwerre and I vehemently oppose the notion that I am Igbo. My grandmother was an Igbo lady from Umuahia. When she was alive I tried to ask her if Ikwerre was Igbo with her experience and knowledge going by her age. She categorically told me Ikwerre was not Igbo. She said there was no time Ikwerre had accepted to be Igbo. Not before the war or after the war.

Your grandma is entitled to her opinions and not to her own facts Ikwerres were identified and classified as Igbos from the moment colonials set foot in the east, just like other Igbo clans like Nsukka, Idemili, Nkanu, etc were classified as same.
Igbo was a generic term for us all. So you see things like Owerri-Ibo, Ikwerre-Ibo, Etche-Ibo, Isuama-Ibo, Onicha-Ibo, Enuani-Ibo, Ika-Ibo, Awka-Ibo, Izzi-Ibo, Agbaja -Ibo, Aro-Ibo,Ngwa-Ibo, Ndoki-Ibo, etc in colonial documents. Everyone one had their own clan they pay allegiance to, while Ibo was a generic term for all.
What Ikwerre did after the war was erase the generic name, promote the clan name to a generic one, and then replace the big void created by removing Ibo with a fabricated Bini origin story and undiluted Igbophobia.

There are many ways Igbos can win the heart of these people that speak similar language and form a formidable front. It is far from annexation. That wont work. Before the war and when there was no idea of it even when the apparatchik of governance were fully under Igbo control in the Eastern Nigeria, Ikwerre in 1963 formed the Ogbakor Ikwerre Convention.

Ikwerres were not the only Igbo clan who formed a convention. Infact, within the Igbo union of those days, each Igbo clan had their own independent union, with Igbo union only serving a supervisory role. Mbaise had their own convention, Ngwa had theirs, every clan had theirs and the inter clan associations rivalry was very high and tense. Igbo union tried to keep everyone calm.
I notice that modern Ikwerre revisionists usually hype about this Ikwerre Convention as a proof of their non Igbo agitations, like other Igbo clans didn't have theirs at that same period.

First of all, Ikwerre is not Igbo. We have made this clear even before the civil war and that was why some Igbo accused Ikwerre of sabotage during the war. Second, in all efforts by the minorities in the former Eastern region to agitate for their own political, social and economic recognition and liberty in the Eastern region and Nigeria at large, Ikwerre participated fully: hence, the late Chief E. J. A. Oriji and others represented Ikwerre before and during most of the conferences set up to address the fears of the minority ethnic groups in Nigeria.

While I agree with you 100% that Ikwerre is not Igbo and that Ohanaeze Ndiigbo owe the rest of Igbo clans the debt of openly announcing expulsion of Ikwerres from Igbo Union and the expulsion of all Ikwerre persons currently holding post in the union.
I have to set the history right.
There is a thread about The COR agitation and willink commission . No Ikwerre person came to the commission and denied they are not Igbos.
Also note that the Afiko, Izzi, Ezza and Ikwo were also involved in the commission deliberations, this wasn't because they were denying their Igbo identity, but because just like Ikwerre, Ogba, Ekpeye and Etche, they were sharing a province with minorities in Ogoja province.
So we know for sure that while Ikwerres like other Igbo clans had their own conventions that promoted their clannish agitations and aspirations, they were not pushing for severance from Igbo union entirely, neither were they in Igbo denial, as of 1957 when the commission was set up.

Third, in May 1963, Ikwerre people formed the Ogbakor Ikwerre Convention to state that Ikwerre is a distinct ethnic group from any others in Nigeria. Fourth, in the 1964/65 elections into the Federal House of Representatives, National Council of Nigeria and the Camerouns (NCNC) nominated an Igbo man named Mr. Eluguronu to represent Ikwerre in the House. Ikwerre rejected it and fielded young Nwobidike Nwanodi as an independent candidate and he won. Fifth, Ikwerre's participation in all the movements for the creation of COR and later Rivers States clearly shows Ikwerre's rejection of been Igbo.

Any neutral evidence dated 1963 to support the claim that Ogbakor Ikwerre declared for independence from the Igbo in 1963. Please don't quote materials dated after 1963.
Elugruonu vs Nwanodi issue had been addressed severally here, see here, you lots must stop twisting things out of context. :

Ikwerre were only in Willink commission process just as Izzi, Ezza Ikwo and Afikpo people were. They shared provinces with minorities and at no point told the willink commission that they favour independence from Igbo ethnicity to float their own individual tags.

AreaFada2

You see, admission class forgets something. It was not just killing of Bello, Balewa and others in January 1966 coup that led to the war. It was the aftermath.

Dr Nwafor Orizu had the chance to hand over to Balewa's de facto deputy Dipcharima. Orizu was senate president and acting president as Zik was in the Caribbean "convalescing". But instead Ironsi came to Orizu's house, left Balewa's cabinet members like Shehu Shagari in the parlour, went into another room to discuss. They emerged and Ironsi demanded power "to restore order". Meanwhile the bodies of Balewa and some others were still in the bush somewhere on Lagos-Ibadan road, not found yet.

So it became VERY suspicious to the North that Igbo used their "anioma cousins" to effect the coup and take power. Considering that Ahmadu Bello already openly voiced his suspicion of Igbo people when alive.

I know you are an Edo and have big interest in Anioma even though you massacred them in Bini city during the war .
This is why I would not let your history revisionism slide.

See, the main cause of all events that led to the war was Nzeogwu coup. Everything else that came after was a cascade. No Nzeogwu coup, no Ironsi, no Nwafor Orizu, nothing else. Once Nzeogwu organized his boys and killed Northern leaders with Ironsi refusing to hand Nzeogwu and his boys over to blood thirsty North for public execution, everything else Ironsi or Ndiigbo did will be always interpreted with the bias of knowing that Nzeogwu a supposedly Igbo man murdered Northern leaders with his boys.
Nzeogwu was the trigger who opened the Pandora box. If we are looking for blames, it stops at his table, he is the SOURCE.

When the war began, Midwest that included Anioma decided to be neutral. But Biafra suddenly invaded Midwest, and declared Republic of Benin in Edo area. All against Midwest wishes. So Biafra lost the support of Midwest. Anioma suddenly found themselves under Biafra. Federal troops dominated by Northerners realising that the coup leaders that killed Northern leaders came mostly from what is now Biafra controlled area wouldn't have delighted them one bit. They took revenge.

Midwest was never Neutral. Midwest was part and parcel of the Nigerian delegation that came to Aburi for negotiations with Eastern region.
I don't know where you got the idea of Midwest being neutral from. There were also many Midwest soldiers in Nigerian military that attacked Biafra.
And we know that part of the grouse the non Igbo Midwesterners had with Biafra occupation was that Ojukwu removed Ejoor who was pro Nigeria( yet another proof that Midwest was never neutral)and replaced him with Okonkwo who was an Anioma person. Many non Igbo Midwesterners saw this move as imposition of Igbo domination on them. You see, when it pleases you lots, Anioma becomes Igbo, when it doesn't, they become Bini descendants. We are told by Edo people that Anioma are not Igbos but are Bini descendants, but when Ojukwu appointed a Bini descendant Anioma man to replace an Urhobo man in Midwest, Bini and Edoids forgot that Aniomas are Bini descendants, instead, cries of Igbo domination filled the air. Who is deceiving who?

Anyway you look at it, Biafra brought the carnage on Anioma. They should have remained across the Niger. A truce might have been easier before too many died. But invading Federal territory gave the war a new dimension.

More like the other way round. Maybe if Ironsi handed Nzeogwu, Ifeajuna to the North to butcher. Maybe there wouldn't have been any war to begin with. Maybe if Nzeogwu didn't start what he couldn't finish, they would not have been war to start with.

Igbo need to critically
Anyway you look at it, Biafra brought the carnage on Anioma. They should have remained across the Niger. A truce might have been easier before too many died. But invading Federal territory gave the war a new dimension. analyse the errors made with the motives, timing and how they declared Biafra war. Igbo were the most vulnerable. They depended more and still depend now on being all over Nigeria than any other tribe. Even Zik was born in Zungeru, Niger State, as far back as 1904. Ojukwu too was born in Zungeru.

Nigeria has done a bad job of processing Biafra war reaching true reconciliation. On both sides really.

We should not force identity on anybody. If we believe in the Bible, we all came from Adam & Eve. But today we have thousands of languages and culture, even skin colours.

Cultures and identities evolve, always in motion, not static.

[/quote]Stop beating round the bush with your cheap divide and conquer tactics.
If you believe Ndiigbo needs Nigeria more than Nigeria needs Ndiigbo, we dare you to do to us like Malay federation did to Singapore when they were convinced that Singapore were a liability, they expelled them from the Malay federation.
Its only in Nigeria where folks claim Igbos need them more than Nigeria needs Ndiigbo, yet they die inside at the mention of Biafra. One would think they should be the ones pushing and helping Ndiigbo to achieve Biafra.

Many people are well aware of Okpe long time yearning for independence from Urhobo, just as we know of Nembe long time demand for independence from Izon/Ijaw.
We have friends from these parts and we know whats up. We are just not house breakers, we let you lots solve your internal issues yourselves.

Mystiquefia:
Darfay what do you hope to gain Exhuming a thread that dates back to 2016, and posting it on Nairaland Of all places, for people who are neither okpe's or urhobos to deliberate on? I mean, if you think this issue is worth deliberating (which i doubt it is), why dont you take a copy of this summation and post it on any of the urhobo peoples or okpe forums on facebook for proper, indepth debates? why must you wash your dirty linen outside for saboteurs to prey on? are you not a saboteur yourself?

But Urhobo persons and the rest of Nigeria has been doing this for Anioma vs Igbo and Ikwerre vs Igbo, where you all debate to your satisfaction whie bashing the Igbo.

If this thread was an Igbo one , It would be in front page by now or atleast politics section.