₦airaland Forum

frosbel: Wrong.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire: - Psalm 104:4

A messenger can either be an angel or a MAN.

A man is never called an angel or vice versa.

Angels are extraterrestrial beings !

Jesus pre-existed oooooooooo.......

Jesus was a spirit in the heavens before he was sent to the earth......spirit messengers of GOD are rightly called angels...........

true2god: The entire verse has no place in their funny doctrine, only the 'voice of the arch angel' makes meaning to dem. If u ask any1 of dem to explain the significance of dat particular verse and the entire chapter they will start talkin funny. They wont tell u straight.

Is christ coming back to raise the dead and take the living up in the air? They will start rig-ma roaming twisting and squeezin out falsehood without independedent reasning but will start giving a tailored\programed response rehearsed frm the assembly halls. Tufiakwa!

Let them tell their ignorant members dat Jesus is arch angel Michael. Thank some of dem dat had brought that this issue with me in my house got dissapointed wen i pointed their falsehood to their face.

You are such an insincere fellow....I had been asking questions you and some other persons refused answering,rather you keep shouting WATCHtower,kingdom hall,etc....what's your problem......??.

I had told you to juxtapose daniel 12:1-3 with all the scriptures been quoted here.....but it seems you choose to blind fold your eyes.................

What has been happening here is scriptures suPporting scriptures..............

I asked::::

....From daniel 12:1-3.....michaels(prince of Gods people) standing up for Yahwehs people during the time of the end would bring about great tribulations,and there after the ressurection and judgement of those who had died.......

1.....can you tell me if Jesus would replicate these same actions carried out by MICHAEL??
or maybe we'll be having 2 seperate captains carrying out this assignment......
2.....Has any other spirit son or messenger of GOD been given the power to ressurect and judge the dead in the last days apart from JESUS??......
3....Why does Jesus in the first place need to use the voice of the arch angel to ressurect the dead??.....why??.......
4....which other spirit son of GOD was given the power and authority to battle the arch enemy of Yahweh apart from Jesus??......
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Don't just come here shouting watchtower,use scriptures to counter these points....

true2god: It is the watchtower org dat is tryin to twist the simple book of hebrew dat is written in simple english, and no longer latin, for we english speakers in Nigeria and other part of the world to understand better. No one is contractin the bible but the JW, especially on dis particular issue.

Was Jesus christ called Mighty God in NWT of Isaiah 9:6 or not? Did the writter of Hebrew quoted the Father (God) calling the Son, God in Heb 1:8? Where in ur NWT was christ directly or indirectly called an angel, without jextaposin unrelated verses to support an unfounded argument? Where? But in ur Nwt the son was directly called, Mighty God.

Anyway i wont be surprised to see later publications of NWT edit Isaiah 9:6 to read an entire new and diffrent meaning (wen the light becomes more brighter). It had been done before so im expectin those changes soonest.

My problem with you is you keep mentioning the NWT.....has anyone here quoted from the NWT??..........

And why shouldn't scriptures be juxtaposed to get clearer meanings to bible truths??.........

Are you saying we should stop juxtaposing??..........maybe throw away the books of the prophets that fortold about the CHRIST??.....

Smh!!!!!!........

My brother the scriptures are interpreting itself and not the watchtower.......got that??.....

true2god: Thats the issue, i am not a catholic. I worship with the assemlies of God church. The issue most JW hav is dat anytime their falsehood is being laid bare u guys assume its a catholic. If the indidividual tells u hes not catholic u blame 'christendom' thats the issue.

I dnt worship mary or bow to saints neither do i use rosary for prayer. I worship (the father and the son) and pray to God through the son Jesus.

Hope u go through my post, u can pick the points i highlighted, one after the other, and refute them.

Is Jesus called mighty God in ur NWT or not (isaiah 9:6) ? Did the father call the son, God in Heb 1:8 (compare psalm 45:6-7) for not? Did God command ALL to worship the son (do u worship an entity dat has no divinity?)?

The issue an average JW is the person of christ and his divinity. That the reason why watchtower org wants to shift him to 'an angel' status. Ur NWT called Jesus christ mighty Jehova in isaiah 9:6, y did they suddenly try to muddle-up uncorrelated verses to make the mighty Jehovah 'arch angel Michael'? I expected u to smell rat here but u didnt.

The issue is not bein a trinitarian. Did the Bible in any place directly called mighty God? Yes. Did the bible in any place directly or indirectly called Jesus an angel? No.

If the bible in any place called Jesus an angel either directly or indirectly pls shw me and if u cant stop accusin the catholics and face the argument squarelly.

You got it wrong my bro.......the scriptures supports all what we've been saying....malachi was quoted but you refute it.....what more do you want??............Jesus is called the angel of the testament...how is that not clear to you baffles me......

JW's believe that Jesus is subordinate to his Father anyday anytime,something you guys even in the face of glaring truths choose to deny.................we don't even need this angel michael issue to prove Jesus is less than his Father.........its all over the bible that Yahweh has no rival and that Jesus is his son and servant...............
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Jesus is a spirit messenger of GOD......if you choose to deny that ,its up to you........Jesus is a servant of GOD......its so clear........
Why this bothers you has got me worried........the trinity dogma is what you are out here to protect and not the truth...........


You keep calling the watchtower as if any watchtower journal was quoted here....not even the NWT was used....the scriptures has been interpreting itself here...........
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Sorry if I mistook you for a catholic....I thought I had seen you once on this forum support the use of images and the rosary......

Abi no be you??....confess o........

true2god: Jesus was called 'the son Mary in the Bible (dats not degarding, cos he became a little lower dan the angels here to suffer death for evryman as fulfilment of the scriptures), that was wen he was in the flesh. He called himself 'the son of man' (dats not degradin as well) in many occasions durin his earthly ministry. A begger called him 'the son of David' (dats not degrading too). But he asked he disciples who they taught of him and Peter replied ' u r the son of the living God'. Flesh and blood did not reveal this to Peter but the spirit of God did.

The spiritual hierachy in the salvation of man lies in the father (God almighty), the son (Jesus christ) and the holy spirit. Go ye into all the world and prach the gospel to evrybody baptizin dem in the name of the father, and of the son and of the holy spirit (matthew 28:19 )

The point here is dis, dat the son was made a little lower dan the angel (philipian 2:6-end), is a humble price he had to pay for the salvation of mankind. Thats not to say God did not ask 'all angels to worship him' in his glory in heaven. Being 'lower dan the angels' was wen he put on the form of a man to save man frm their sins. So get it right here.

So there is nowhere Jesus was referref to, or regarded, as an angel. But to avoid muddlung things up, we can take ur verse, where watchtower claimed Jesus as an angel , an analyse it one after the other.

Hold while i take up the verses u guys had qouted and do my independent analysis devoid of organizational\official interpretation\misinterpretation.

You can keep running away from the truth,but you can't hide...........

One basic reason why it would be hard for you to gulp in this truth is because of the trinity dogma.......
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2 major t®anslations which is not the NWT were used to hit the nail on the head,but you keep running away from the truth....na you sabi....

When you are done worshipping and bowing down to marys image maybe you can settle down a bit to study hard.........

You talk like you regard Christ better than the JW's.........if you ever did respect and honour Christ you would desecrate each and every image and mouldings you use in worship(rosary included)........

obadiah777: CHRISTIANS THEY AINT. CHRISTIANS DO. ATHEISTS READ AND NOT DO. THEY ARE ATHEISTS PRETENDING TO BE CHRISTIANS SO THEY CAN STEAL. REMEMBER WHAT CHRIST SAID ? MY BROTHERS ( CHRISTIANS ) ARE THOSE WHO DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN. THOSE GUYS JUST READ, THEY DONT DO. THEY ARE ATHEISTS

You are so correct.....once the isrealites felt they could do what ever they like because they had the thought that GOD was not seeing them(wasn't existing),not until GOD sent them on an exile.......

So also today.....many claim to be christians but fail to do what God requires of them....infact in there hearts they've said ""there is no GOD"" who is watching.....

My twin bro you are right........

obadiah777: YEAH HE BETTER PAY ATTENTION TO THE BOLDED

Lol........doubledX would be in trouble soon o.....

obadiah777: YOU DO ERR NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURES IJAWKID >>> COLOSIANS 1 VS 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: <<<<< THAT DONT LOOK LIKE THE APOCRYPHA TO ME. THAT THERE IS THE NEW TESTAMENT

And when all things were created,were they imperfect and wicked??.......every single thing was created perfect.......

Yahweh did not create wickedness......

We all know how wickedness started......

We all know how satan became SATAN....

I think the apocryphal writings are to be blamed for all these hysteria...........

Because it seems buzugee and some persons are actually telling us that our almighty GOD is BAD and wicked and that satan is not to be blamed for the wickedness prevalent in the world.............SMH!!!!!!.......

Willzkid: Now I am convinced that you are all of the above

Hahahahahaha........you no go kill me with laugh....

Boomark: We all know who angels are. So i want to know if john the Baptist is an angel, is he?

From the original words used we can say he is(though not a spirit mÉssenger ).... ..........the reader who reads
the original words that is rendered ""angel"" or ""messenger"" shoÙld know when to apply those words......when that titlÉ is used fÓr spirit creatures(spirit messengers of God) you sure know what should be rendered.......


in Jesus'(he came from heaven) case I guess you know the answer.............Jesus
was a spirit before he was sent and so being called an angel rightlÝ fits..........and malachi just shows that........


those 2 words messenger and ANGEL can be used interchangeably,but the persons involved should tell us the most appropriate Óne to choose...........

1.....Is the being involved a spirit messenger
Or an earthly one??.........

2....which is Jesu§??a heavenly messÉnger or an earthly messenger??

Frosbel ORGINI??.....:-)....

You want make shursh close??.....

Ubenedictus: i hear o! Atleast today u are patronising me, let me wait and see what i will b4 d sun goes down.
Oga i hail.

lol......i've always been loyal my chief.....you will always be my comrade.....

Boomark: 1 Angels.

2 Yes. Trinitarians take note.

With reference to 1, what of angel john the Baptist? Is he an angel from heaven who did not know/recognise angel Jesus when they were in heaven?(because he was not sure if Jesus is the messiah) Or don't you think these translations choose to translate "messenger" as "angels"?

John wasnt from the heavens as we know it...but Jesus did pre-exist as a spirit creature before descending....

now the point is from the original hebrew and greek words used as in malachi 3:1 and in other chapters and verses of the scriptures AG'GE-LOS and MAL-'A-KH' apply to both human and heavenly messengers of Yahweh..

.but as we know all ""heavenly messengers"" are strictly angels....and Jesus isnt exempted...


those translations are right.....messenger = angel.....especially when speaking of spirit messengers of yahweh...

But let's not forget:::::: Jesus is the chief of all Yahwehs messengers...

Jesus being reffered to as an ANGEL does not in anyway degrade him ...........
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if you think Jesus being called an angel degrades Him,how about Jesus being reffered to as the HIGH PRIEST if Yahweh......how about Jesus being reffered to as Yahwehs apostle......how about Jesus being reffered to as Yahwehs servant.....

Right now as we speak Jesus is a servant of YAHWEH..........

""Servant"" is a title we all bear(including) Jesus except Yahweh who is over all......

As far as the scriptures is concerned Jesus remains a messenger of Yahweh......and nothing SPOIL,,,,,,,

Please my brothers and sisters,can we say these translations are wrong for calling Jesus the angel of the covenant A.K.A ""messenger of the covenant""??....


This is malachi 3:1 from these 2 translations I'll quote...



##Douay-Rheims Bible
Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare
the way before my face. And presently the
Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the
testament, whom you desire, shall come to his
temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of
hosts.
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##....Darby Bible Translation
Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall
prepare the way before me; and the Lord
whom ye seek will suddenly come to his
temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom
ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah
of hosts.
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Now this is what barrister and truthislight have been trying to butress.......

Jesus as we know came from heaven.......we all know what heavenly messengers are called irrespective of there ranks........the greek and hebrew words used in that malachi both for JOHN and JESUS are the same words we render as ANGEL...........and those words are AG'GE-LOS and MAL-'A-KH' respectively....the Douay-Rheims Bible even refers to JOHN as angel talk less of Jesus who came down from the heavens.....

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Which ever way we wanna look at it,Jesus was called an angel or a messenger in that verse.............all heavenly messengers of GOD(YAHWEH) can be rightly called angels......and Jesus isn't exempted.....Jesus is Gods(Yahwehs) Chief messenger.........

The only person who should be having problem with this is frosbel who does not believe Jesus pre-existed as a spirit being before his descending to the earth.......for all those who believe Jesus was a spirit in heaven before coming to the earth you should all go back and study hard.....this is not about JW or what not..........



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Now I will ask these questions one more time......


1....What are heavenly messengers of GOD called??

2....was Jesus ever a messenger of GOD??YES or NO

Mumu youths them......

Crazy man has got it right oo........its good to see many persons adjust the stance on pertinent biblical doctrines......

Ubenedictus: hmm...i didnt say i was married i said "if i need someone to 'blow' it will be my wife". It is neither a confirmation nor a denial that i have a wife, i dont reveal personal information on internet forums. Besides this is NL where moderators are more political than moral, no one stops another from insulting, so wu knows what will appear as insult 2morow, it may just be some stuff u revealed on some thread. Nah! I'd rather b d guy with just a username and views.
Peace

Ok.........but I still dey loyal......:-).......

advocate666: yes we are very happy. A nice mistress (or more) is the secret to a happy marriage. Just don't tell your wife.

Lol...........you don craze finish.....lol....

Ubenedictus: pls dont spin d discussion off on a tangent.

UBE how far??...I was just trying to deliver a message to buzugee... ......

advocate666: I am an Atheistic Satanist married to a good christian wife and you can't find a happier family right now.

Happy??....the last time I checked you said you were cheating on her like crazy......

And you call that happy??

Logicboy03: lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae

I never see where them conduct wedding ceremony for ape o....

Well logicboy you never told me this was you.....lol...

Logicboy03: He has a sister

I've got a twin sister......:-)

musKeeto: Lol, this logicboy lovelife dey pain you well o. Make im no marry ur sister(hope u have one)
E be lyk say na bazooka and holy bible u go use chase am commot..

Lol.....I no get time for him love life.....I wonder why him wan LOVE in the first place.....apes and gorillas no wetin be love??.....

Apes suppose marry??....

Its simple.....because many have been indoctrinated with dogma's like the immortality of the soul,purgatory etc........

If one actually knows that the dead are conscious of nothing @ all then that individual won't have to worry about the dead.....

seriallink: Brah Ijawkid, you have to be extra careful debating buzugee from now, my name made his list; you might just be next!

Edit: Buzugee is always right anyone who debates him, gets the ticket! Smh

Lol.....I sure won't make buzugees list....have you forgotten I'm his twin bro......??......if him try am ehh we go fight GIDIGBO....lol.....

obadiah777: OH YES. MORE NEW NAMES LIKE FIELD MARSHALL SERIALLINK THE PHARISEE AND BOOKMARK THE SADDUCEE AND TRUTHISLIGHT THE PHARISEE. YOU JUST NARROWLY MISSED THE LIST IJAWKID

Hahahahahaha....

I know you won't put up your twin bro as a pharisEeee......mama is gonna whop your azz if you do that..lol....

But serrialink and boomark are good guys......pardon them na....

tevinsolt: What can He not do? Give life? Heal the sick? Forgive sins?

Jesus received power to do all that.......I hope you know what the word ""receive"" means.....

And ofcus Jesus could not nor did he cause his existence....that's one thing Jesus can't do......

John 6:57....
(NIV)
57 Just as the living Father sent me and
I "live" because of the Father, so the one who
feeds on me will live because of me. .....
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Yahweh sustains the life and existence of Jesus........

Throw away that trinity dogma and humbly acknowledge that Jesus is not co-equal with his Father.......never!!!!!!!.......

musKeeto: How can a 'CHRISTIAN' not believe in 'GOD'... this guy...

Anyways, e be lyk say marriage don dey hungry u wella these days, invite me o..

The boy dey smoke too much WEED.......

Logicboy03: She might be a cultural christian.


There are even christians that dont believe in god!

Lol.....its impossible for a christian who doesn't believe in God to still be a christian.....just go get yourself an atheist girl,.........so that you can both wallow in your miseries.....give birth to kids who you would train to be gays.........since morality is so much far-fetched from you guys........