₦airaland Forum

@HND-holder
I copied this from http:\\www.nate-ng.org. Has it been implemented after the Uyo 2009 NCE meeting??

The Office of Head of Service of the Federation should proceed to issue implementation circular letter without further delay after the 34th meeting of NCE scheduled to hold in Uyo, Akwa-Ibom State in 2009.

Why are HND holders still employed as level 07 and Bsc holders as level 08 officers in some ministries like interior ministry??

Why the difference between HND and Bsc holders in parastatals like NNPC and DPR??

@HND-holder
I copied this from http:\\www.nate-ng.org. Has it been implemented after the Uyo 2009 NCE meeting??

The Office of Head of Service of the Federation should proceed to issue implementation circular letter without further delay after the 34th meeting of NCE scheduled to hold in Uyo, Akwa-Ibom State in 2009.

Why are HND holders still employed as level 07 and Bsc holders are employed as level 08 officers in ministries like interior ministry??

What's the difference btween the science and arts students? During our days in school the major difference was just Physics, chemistry & Technical Drawing. in some schools even, Arts students also had the option of doing chemistry or further maths.

Arts students offer the following subjects that the science students offer.

Mathematics
English
Biology
Agric science
Geography
Economics

So whats the big deal about being in a science class.

@HND-holder

I have seen the circular; but that circular looks as if it's for road safety corps?? I thought it will be something that will be general for both state and federal ministries.

What about the entry level for HND holders, why is it still level 07 in some ministries??

Hnd-holder:
this has be done. send your e. mail i will make the circular available to you

HND-holder, long time. I thought you have fashyed nairaland. What are you saying about the removal of bar for HND holders in the civil service? Are you saying they've removed that bar? Please send it to my box too. ishmaelxy@yahoo.com

Actually HND and Bsc are not the same. HND is technically or practically biased while Bsc is theoretically biased. But the problem is the discrimination against those that are technically biased; and our question is why the discrimination against holders of HND certificate?? No good reason has ben given so far. Some will say it is the lecturers, some will say it is the entry requirement, some will say it is the size of the school, and other funny reasons. Why the discrimination pls??

obilizy:
i work in oil and gas organisation. A reputable one!
u can"t be a senior staff with HND, unless
u have a PG attached to it. senior staff
must be a degree holder (B.sc, B.Eng

chei, na wa o. HND certificate has suffered.

femee:
I agree. Though we have to take baby steps before we leap. The polytechnics should first start with B.Tech and then build a post graduate curriculum for M.Tech. In time we shall achieve excellence in M.Tech and Ph.D from poly.
For both M.Tech and Ph.D research work will be involved. And that is the basis of development.

Hopefully, things will turn out very well.

Thanx for concurring.

ndumart:
Its really saddening but what cn one do?
Both institutions were set up for different purposes but in Nig everything works the other way round.
It may be too late for those who already have their HNDs to go back for their BSc cos of the age factor. It is however advisable for those who are about entering higher institutions to steer clear of the ploytechnics for their own good.

OND holders should opt for Direct entry instead of going back for their HND.

The discrimination is indeed a shame.

it's really a shame. why spend money on schools you don't appreciate and recognize their products? it's an economic waste as far as i'm concerned. Polytechnics and hND should be abolished on time so that more nigerians will not fall into the trap of discrimination.

@Mr Fox

atleast you agree that some polytechnics are bigger than some universities, and even better than some universities in terms of infrastructures.

To me awarding BTech in polytechnics will not fully address the discrimination. Poly should be allowed to run PG programs from MTech to PhD level so that their lecturers will be products of polytechnics and not universities. most polytechnic lecturers are uni graduates who have no idea(s) of what technical and technological education is, and have succeeded in bringing down the quality of technological education in polytechnics; that is why some polytechnic graduates find it difficult to be self-reliant.

i can't blame ghana; they are only trying to protect their economy, because they know that if foreigners like nigerians are not checked they may corrupt and spoil ghana like nigeria. if it pains nigeria then nigeria should put things in order here and see if ghana would not be begging nigerians to even pay them a visit atleast, not to talk of coming to do biz there. if it really border our leaders they will take a positive step to make the nigerian economy better.

Hnd-holder:
Nigeria is said to be a leading nation in the consumption of the end products of other nations technological exertions. In fact, virtually everything except air is imported,
Nigeria needs skilled manual workers as never before. Some young Nigerians refuse to become bricklayers, Fiona Ledger a BBC reporter in Lagos saw it all, and he knew that communications, electricity and power are crying out for upgrading and better maintenance. But the idea of a vocational education is looked down upon by many young people
So they join in purchasing certificate called degree

i weep for Nigeria. Ghana is ahead of us now, their polytechnics are already awarding degrees.

Hnd-holder:
Nigerian universities look fake. They have alot to cover, to produce quality B.Tech degree in Nigerian polytechnics we need non bias lecturers. So we have to produce our own type of lecturers.

but they are the ones reigning in the country today and their products making noise up and down. with the number of universities and university graduates that we have in nigeria ghana just overtook us. na wa ooo.

@Prince E

No body is fighting; we are only saying that undue advantage should not be given to Bsc holders over HND holders. Everybody should be allowed to prove or defend his or her certificate and not on the basis of Bsc or HND,

Mr Fox:
There has indeed been an unfair treatment by employers who perceived HND as inferior to Bachelors Degree.

Here is my feeble attempt to guess a couple of reasons why
1. OND admission required less number of credits than Bachelors
2. A different exam PCE JAMB (easier than UME) is required for admission into ND.
3. Only a Pass in english is required for majority of OND courses.
5. University Libraries are better equipped than Polytechnics
6. Academic staff in universities include more Ph.D and Professors (i.e more academic achievement)

I want to prove you wrong on some of the reasons you gave.

1. No university requires more than 5 credits, so also the polytechnics. some    polytechnics insist on 5 credits too.

2. it has never been proven that UME maths or english or any subject at all is more difficult than PCE maths or english or any other subject. The exams are of the same strength, the only difference is that u do 4 papers in UME and 3 in PCE.

3. Yes, a pass may be accepted in english for some science courses according to JAMB, some polytechnics accept it but most polytechnics still insist that it must be a credit. No social science or biz course will ever accept a pass in english. On the other hand again some universities still admit students with a pass in english or pass depending on the course.

5. Not true, some polytechnics are bigger and well equipped than some universities, so also are the libraries of these polytechnics.

6. Yes, agreed, but how many of these PhD holders and professors lecture undergraduate students? Most of them are there to carry out research and supervise post graduate students. Most undergraduates are being lectured by graduate assistants and Msc holders and may be some PhD holders; this is the same thing that happens in the polytechnics. For you to lecture HND courses you must have a minimum of Msc Degree which means some PhD holders and professors also lecture in the polytechnics. Professor Asiribo (presently HODept. of Statistics, Fed uni. of Agric, Abeokuta)lectured me Experimental Design and non-parametric techniques in the polytechnic while i was doing HND. Dr. Hassan (presently HOD Biological sciences dept, KADSU) was my Biometrics lecturer during my HND.

femee:
Your opinion of the reason make sense.
Does anyone one have any other(additional) opinion on the reasons why employers discriminate against HND?
You views are welcome, may be these views can further alleviate the anguish of HND holders.

Most employers are Uni graduates, they prefer Bsc holders becos they are afraid that allowing the HND holders to work in d same place with the Bsc holders will make it known to the world that the polytechnics in nigeria have chunned out graduates that are theoretically and technically good, and hence relegate the nigerian university degree. They have vowed never to allow the nigerian degree certificates they hold to be relegated.

b_jralph:
:-< God is in control peeps

yes o, but until graduates of polytechnics start heading polytechnics there will always be discrimination. look at most rectors, HOD's , lecturers etc. in the polytechnics, they are all uni graduates.

@HND-holder
nigerians are funny. NBTE are visiting universities/colleges in Uk and are partnering with them for nigerian HND holders to do Msc programs directly without going thru PGD, which they agree with. My question is, why cant NBTE partner with nigerian universities first to allow HND holders go in for Msc programs directly. How many nigerians can be able to go to Europe to do Msc??

b_jralph:
landos4rea, u r right. think Poly peeps should endeavor to add value to them self by taking a lot of professional certifications and not just stop at the HND thing.

even after getting additional qualifications like pgd and some certifications, some organisations still remind you that you do not have a bsc degree; to them degree is the ultimate and it is first considered before any higher qualification or certification.
Beware!!

To me it's stressful going to polytechnic or holding a polytechnic certificate. People should forget about that old fashioned school called poly where you learn a lot; lets all go to university since that is what the government want. what a misplaced priority on the side of the nigerian government.

b_jralph:
I believe we know who we are and how competent we are, but i think if the government is not taking proper measures to align this issues, then i think the Polytechnic admins should take it up especially against any organization who refuses or discriminates HND holders cos[b] it's against the rules of the government.[/b] Tnx!

against which government?? if you must know it is even government ministries that discriminate against HND graduates the most. Forget about government jo.

South-Eastern states should also bring back Bakassi boys to check the activities of hausas in the eastern states. What is the difference between hisba and bakassi boys? This country na wa!!

Hnd-holder:
Send E-mail to nate88et76@hotmail.com I will you more detailed circulars. Ministry under stands only circulars.

HND-holder, na wa o, If it is only circulars they understand, then you people should make effort to send the circular stopping the discrimination to them. or is the circular not yet ready? Me personally i have given up on this HND/Bsc discrimination issue.

@HND-holder
Thanx, i've seen it. i pray they implement it fully. What about going for further studies? can HND holders go straight for Msc or MTech?

@HND-holder

How far with the white paper? i thought you said you will send it. I have sent a mail to your box, you can forward it with me.

HND is a stressful qualification. I don't advice people to go close to it. it's possible to go as far as as PhD level if you attend a polytechnic, but the problem is that now most universities hardly admit HND holders into their Msc programs even after doing a PGD.

so becareful that's what i will say. get a Bsc and save yourself the stress.

Ibime:
The reverse is the case. Any tribe that has the highest no of Muslims will be at the bottom, because the religion does hold back a sizeable population from being educated such as women, servants etc.

You are only displaying naivity and ignorance here. Auchi people are predominantly muslims, Most yoruba people from Lagos state down to kwara state are muslims, are you now saying they are at the bottom?

it's not true that they don't promote short service commission officers. infact some of them even get to ranks that some regular combatants don't get to. Check out medical Doctors for example, some of them get to the rank of Maj. Gen before they retire while some regular officers retire as Lt col or col. Let your brother go to his university pls.

we've been hearing this for decades, when will it come to pass? when will the government and society begin to see HND or poly graduates as relevant to the society?

david o:
We’re removing disparity between HND, varsity degree’
By Oluwole Josiah, Abuja
Published: Wednesday, 13 May 2009
The [b]Minister of Education, Dr. Sam Egwu[b][/b][/i][i], has said that the Federal Government has begun the process of eliminating the discrimination against polytechnic graduates in the public service.

Minister of Education, Dr. Sam Egwu

He stated this during an interactive session between the ministry officials and the Senate Committee on Education on Tuesday.

According to him, the disparity was affecting staff moral and productivity within the service, noting that the government is concerned about it.

He said, “We are addressing the problem, because when a staff with HND does not earn the same recognition that his counterpart from the university earns, it creates problems.

“Right now, we have removed the barriers. By the time we present our overall blue print you will see how far we have gone.”

Chairman of the committee, Senator Joy Emordi, expressed satisfaction over the development, saying that her office had been inundated with petitions from Nigerians complaining about the adverse effects of the disparity.

But Senator Iyabo Obasanjo-Bello, a member of the committee, noted that polytechnics had created more problems by admitting too many students in the business courses while only a few were admitted into engineering.

According to her, the polytechnics have deviated from their initial mandate of focusing on technical courses.

Senator Omar Hambagdar, a former university lecturer, however, disagreed with Obasanjo-Bello, arguing that [b]the initial design of the polytechnic system included both technical and business courses. [/b]He said only polytechnics initially offered business courses and that it was only recently that universities in Nigeria started offering business courses.[/b]

Oga Omar help me tell them o. i wonder why people especially nigerians always say that polytechnics have deviated from technical courses to business? As far as i know one of the reasons polytechnics were established was to train people technically in the field of science&technology as well as business for the government and industries.

dominique:
i think b.sc is better when it comes to theoritical courses, but when it comes to technical/vocational courses, hnd has the edge (case study; unilag and yabatech )

anywhere in the world today bsc is preferred to HND. so the issue of theory and practical or technical knowledge is of no use.

I love this old one better than the "arise o compatriot". It makes more sense. i wonder why they changed it.

pick a direct-entry form and go back to the university for a Bsc program. dats all it takes. good luck.