₦airaland Forum

Gemma11:
Yes there are many brilliant intelligent bright stars from Nigeria in the UK.

However, most of them are solo, aged around 20-30 and are ready to explore what life has to offer. However those packing up shop in Nigeria, selling houses and looking to immigrate to the UK when they are already close to 40 with their entire families are not genuine students. There is no way such people who have already lived a life, embark on a serious course of study worthy of professional employment..1.age is not on their side and they will be competing with younger proactive graduates who are ready to take on the world and 2. Before they use time to gain experience, they will be close to retirement age...lets be honest.

Such people should just apply for standard work visas where they may be allowed to bring family and stop using the student visa as a ploy to enter in UK...or just stay in Nigeria and make lemonade out of lemons.

I find many of your statements those of self hate, ignorant and insulting.

Some facts-

1. Brilliance is not a function of age

2. Educational attainments e.g college, masters e.t.c is what we all engage in to better ourselves and encounter better opportunities.

3. Being a student is not a function of age or a function of the size of ones family

4. As a Nigerian, I don't see a hierarchy of my countrymen consisting of those who are 'suitable' for the UK and those less worthy and only fit to remain in Nigeria. If the UK is able to scrape our your young and bright doctors, then there is certainly room for masters students and their families.

5. The UK needs much of immigration more the immigrants need the UK.

6. By most studies released, the UK economy is a significant net beneficiary of the masters system as currently structured and even immigration as a whole.

Just like the pillaging of Africa over centuries, on this, the UK gets the better deal by a long stretch. I will not further that by creating a caste system and sorting which Nigerians are 'worthy' enough to be in the UK.

Raalsalghul:
Most people underestimate the effect of time, chance, background and location in their success.

A Dr earning over 10x the hourly rate of a post- masters degree minimum wage earner does not mean they are working 10x as hard or 10x as smart. Same way a director earning hundreds of multiples of the average employees salary in a week is not more hardworking or brilliant to that degree.
That same dr would tell you there were folks back home equally as brilliant or more brilliant who are stuck on 40k naira jobs. Even among peers, the most successful are not commonly the most brilliant.

These form the bedrock of layered taxation and social systems we see in the west today.

Yes, responsibilities differ and should be rewarded accordingly but the overarching role of things you had no control of become more obvious the higher one rises in a chosen career path.

mayo47:
You were better off using this narrative as against the comparison with another profession.

NB: I don't belong to the medical profession

The principle is same irrespective of narrative.

The higher one rises in a chosen field the more apparent it becomes to that person (if they're honest) that their success is not simply down to brilliance or hardwork. This hold true for any field or profession.

WB did say the two main reasons he's amassed billions are firstly cos he was born in America and secondly, he was born at the time he was.

mayo47:
"The system rewards their labour better despite not necessarily working harder than others" - You can go to medical school for years to also benefit. What a very ignorant statement!

Peoples earning and pay are many times not a direct reflection of their hardwork or effort put in.

Different societies reward different roles in different ways due to a complex myriad of factors many of which are artificial.

Zahra29:
As with other foreign workers, the docs came here on an immigrant work visa and paid taxes from day 1 so I don't see how they've taken advantage of the system. It's up to Canada if they think they're using a back door in

Lol... let me shock you by telling you most docs/nurses gain more from the system than most of the masters students while arguably contribute same/less

First they dont pay 15k but arrive with the full gamut of their family.
They are exempt from IHS
They can many times be exempt from the 20hr rule
The get the full benefits of working for the NHS.. pensions e.t.c
The system rewards their labour better despite not necessarily working harder than others

The masters students do not benefit any of these but contribute significantly higher sums.

I wonder which group is a drain on the system. The health workers perhaps

Zahra29:
I have no opinion on the matter. If I relied solely on Nigerian doctors for my or my family's care, than I would probably be bothered. However my family has been treated here by wonderful doctors and surgeons from the UK, Hong Kong , India, so I'm confident the NHS will be fine.

It's not about the NHS but the docs in question.
Do you think they're also 'taking advantage of the system' or going to Canada thru a back door?

Zahra29:
That you have not come across them does not mean that they do not exist. They do, in droves. I have conducted recruitment interviews for postgraduates from leading universities and majority were British (white, Asian, black etc), followed by Chinese and Indian nationals.

International students currently account for only 18% of universities' income, so please stop making it sound like the UK is full of uneducated and unskilled folk.

Uk student ratio - 78%. Percentage of university income- 31%
International students - 16%. Percentage of university income 17%.

It's quite clear why universities are falling over themselves lobbying the government and publishing research showing the contribution of these bright minds.

Out of curiosity, let me ask. What do you make of Nigerian doctors who come to the UK, get some added training, a British passport, a house they'd later rent out and then move to Canada or Australia where the pay and work balance is better?

Peerielass:
That you haven’t come across one does not make it a fact! I know a British citizen that got a partial scholarship to study (first degree) in America. His family had to make a substantial contribution (more than that your £15k) towards his studies in the USA. Having now graduated since last year, he has been looking for a means to change his visa to work permit. Visa eventually ran out but due to being a BC, he was able to switch to an ESTA to prolong his stay in the USA temporarily. Bloke still hasn’t been able to get a sponsored job in the US. He’s now contemplating coming back home to get a job in Scotland or enrolling for a masters so he can continue to live the dream in America.

Apart from Canada and Australia. I doubt if there are any other countries that allow students a clear path to naturalization or bring their entire village as dependants. It’s their country and their rules and if we don’t like it, we can very well stay back in Nigeria. This attitude of entitlement is getting a bit old and silly now.

Let the sht hit the fan 🤷🏽‍♀️

No one challenges whether it's our country or not. What we're saying is you can't eat your cake and have it.

Good your example was seeking a first degreee and had a partial scholarship.

Even for a Uk masters where student loans are freely available with gradual payback over a long period, many British graduates do not think it worth the spend for lots of fields. I have not come across a British grad who is willing to pay 15 k plus lots of other fees to study an unknown masters. There may be few but in the extreme minority.

An average international masters student with a family of 2-4 would spend upwards of 30-50k from pocket over the masters, PSW and T2 period while maintaining a good social record before they get a permanent stay. They would give 7-9 years of their productive life to the British economy.

If I am paying that much, it is well in order to demand a good deal. There is no entitlement in that.

Zahra29:
The government's view and policy has always been that international students are only here for a short time and then return home.....

See below statement from Jenrick, immigration minister, made in the house of commons this week:

We have seen, historically, that the vast majority of students leave the country and go back to their home country to continue their careers and lives.
It is possible that the system that has evolved since 2019 will see different trends. In 2020, only 7,400 non-EU students stayed on post study and those numbers may be dramatically higher in the years ahead. It may be that the mix of individuals, the countries they come from - if these individuals come to the UK to study and then spend a period of time here on the graduate route, and certainly if they bring dependants, that we will start to see a significant increase in the number of people staying here, making a life in the UK and not returning home, in which case policies of this kind will become more important.

The governments policy is not for international students to return. That is what the anti-imigration public think and are told by those in government. Certainly not what those who plan govt policies think.

It's good you mentioned 2020. Guess what else happened then?

This is Priti Patel and the UK high commissioner markerting the PSW to Indians. It clearly states '...recruit and retain the best and brightest global talent'. There is no mention of return home. The PSW was introduced for a clear reason- with Brexit, the UK wanted more money from more students.

The government was not content with £24 billion in economic activity international students generate yearly. They wanted more. Target is to 'export' £35b in education every year. To put things in perspective, the total budget for the Department of health and social care for this year is £180b.

The country this year is poised to escape a recession. Lord knows the role these tax paying folks have played

Zahra29:
The UK's student visa is not like Canada's. The UK gov expects students to study, stay for 1 or 2 years to gain experience, and then mostly return to their home countries to apply what they have learned. That's why the study and PSW routes do not contribute to settlement, unlike Canada. And that's why there have been calls for student numbers to be removed from official migration figures as they are supposed to be temporary migrants who are expected to return home.

Claiming to be coming to study, when you are really planning to permanently migrate your whole family to the UK, is why they see it as an abuse of the system.

It becomes a big issue for the govt when it happens on a large scale as seen over the last couple of years.

Any government official that believes this should not be in a position of planning

I have not come across a Brit that would pay 15k, Visa + IHS fee and separate from family all cos of a masters degree. They'd consider it ridiculous. How then does the UK expect a low income Nigeria to churn out such cash to stuff their coffers?

Returning to contribute is one of the hypocritical statements branded around. They could stay back and contribute to the UK economy. For the Nigerian labour market, a UK masters is not worth any more that masters from elsewhere. Many times not worth the paper it was issued on.

Over 95% of folks coming for masters see it as a means to emigrate legally. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just like with being part of the EU, the UK economy gains much more from international students than it gives.

Poanan:
Unfilled job spaces where? The way people talk about the unfilled job spaces is not the way it looks. I know of someone who just got a job in audit he has 10yrs experience in audit and he jsut got a job. Meanwhile he finished since September.

Its worth seeing the whole market picture. One person is hardly representative.
It's tougher for international students but the labour market is still very strong and unemployment at historical lows

Zahra29:
I said this before and got my head bitten off 😂, but I'll repeat what I said which is that the immigration surcharge is a nominal amount that does not cover the cost of use for those who access the health service. Ask international patients how much they paid to give birth on the NHS for example (upwards of £5k), and contrast the overall cost paid by an international student or dependent to give birth here and you'll see that the surcharge is heavily subsidised.

The children of international students go to school at no cost to the parents. The fees paid to the university do not cover this. It costs upwards of £4k to fund a child's school place per year. What if the gov asked international students to cover all or some of the cost for their children's education? Would people be as eager to bring 3 or 4 children in while studying?

Funding for some nursery places which many tax paying British residents cannot access, is provided to international students on lower household incomes because priority is given to the welfare of the child, even though not British. This may be free for the recipient but it is paid for by the tax payer and not the university.

Also council tax which the student (and their dependents in some cases) do not need to pay- saving approx £150 per month depending on the council band?

The universities do not cover all the above costs. They collect their fees and run and leave the rest to the local councils and government.

You minimise the contribution international students +dependents bring. Their footfall alone, the presence of a working populace and the effect it has on growing the economy cannot be overestimated. From housing, consumption of goods, intellectual ability, labour provision e.t.c

To put things in perspective, these students contribute much more to the system when compared to what their British peers contribute. Worse still, they get much less out of it.

Zahra29:
Don't be so sure. Many people didn't believe the gov would go through with the policy change announced today. If Suella had her way, the PSW would have been cut down as well. She might well try again if they see that the migration numbers are not coming down enough, especially as they have already surpassed their initial 5 year target of 600k students. She has some backing as the govt's think-tank has recently advised that they think the post study 2 yr visa is unnecessary:

A curb on the amount of time overseas university students can stay in Britain was recently backed by Professor Brian Bell, chairman of the independent Migration Advisory Committee (MAC), which advises ministers on migration issues. Professor Brian Bell told The Sunday Telegraph that his body thought it “unnecessary” for foreign students to be permitted to work in Britain for two years after completing their masters degree.

I believe they needed to act or be seen as doing something moreso with the coming migration numbers expected to be quite high.
The effect of reintroducing the 2 year PSW was stronger than they had envisioned but given its not long they backtracked on that, I doubt they'd be in a hurry to change it.

The Chancellor seems to favour immigration as there's lots of unfilled job spaces with poor economic growth which he's trying to turn around.

eniola1010:
Honestly i dont know why people give themself so much headache.
Dont rush. Everything will come in place.

If they say no t4 dependent. Finish ur 2year course or 1 year course. Get sponsorship and carry ur fam. Simple

U come under 4month u wan run get CC. Just chill, improve ur CS and apply for CC. Simple

U come under 4months u wan get mortgage you made ur self enter mortgage of 5% deposit, instead make u chill save enough with ur lisa.

I no know why ppl dey rush.

I don't this would really hurt their masters admissions rate. A change in PSW would have done it.

Truth is, this move just pushes the can down the road. Those dependents are still likely to arrive but from 2025.
They're looking to go into the next election saying to the populace they're already cutting down the numbers. Not like they don't know those dependents would still not come.

I'm sure they know very well that for many students, the UK masters is a pathway for migration. Seems the government and schools want to do the selling.

P.s. I wouldn't knock those coming in for having the extra drive. They need it as the system and numbers are already stacked against them. It's just about being reasonable

Viruses:
With this news everywhere about UK banning int'l students from bringing in their family.

Advocates of "come first bring your family later", I'll like to hear from you

It's more of an economic transaction.

The UK would like to offer masters certification for 15k
From previous events, many students do not think the certificate alone is worth the price.

Hence the UK had to sweeten their offer by adding the PSW visa and ability to bring dependents.

With the looming change in terms following a pushback from the populace which is largely migration averse, it's left for prospective clients to reevaluate and see if a UK masters at current cost and chance of a PSW visa and possible T2 visa afterwards is worth separation from ones family.

coldzobo:
@ jedisco this looks nice based on your previous teachings.
What do you think ?
Are we good to go ?

I'm watching for a response at that level. Proper retest or slow consolidation
If we get any of the above, I'd add to positions accumulated before.

One thing I've noticed is the drop off in volume since the weekly candle that rallied from 22k to 28k. This could have certain implications but I don't see it across bitc0in/fiat pair on other exchanges
Typically this is either followed by a period of consolidation before further upside or high volume sell-off to test buyers resolve.

abbey621:
Even the police force that you mentioned, the majority of them do not collect bribe openly. The ones on the roads represents less than 10% of the force. Using Nigeria as an example is easy, just look at majority of people that jaapa to foreign countries, what percentage of them are law abiding, hardworking citizens? In the USA, over 70% end up not only excelling in school but they go on to have a very good career.

I tell you honestly now, let Nigeria fix it's insecurity, lack of stable electricity, unemployment, you would see more positive actions from people overall. There's a saying that you never really know the true character of a man until he's backed against the wall, this is the reality of most Nigerians, people doing anything just to survive. Even that policeman on the road is a victim as well but you can't see that because you're not in his shoes

Let's not make excuse for bad behaviour. It is still thesame adult Nigerians that'd fix Nigeria.

As you glorify beating as the ultimate means to making better adults, two things worth pointing out are

1. As someone who's travelled wide, the group of Nigerian kids who get the most beating are almajiris. The koboko each receives in a day, your average city child might not receive in month. How do they turn out? Hooked on drugs, rading villages, raping and killing people.

2. As a nation, one effective way of instilling discipline which we have failed at is holding those in authority to higher standards. Having a drug dealer in leadership makes it extremely difficult to make young ones shy away. Same way giving justice to one thieving politician is more effective than flogging thousands of kids. The streets of our highbrow areas are dominated by our ladies selling their body openly to our politicians. No repercussions.

In summary, there are different ways of guiding kids to be better adults. While some argument can be made for some form of corporal punishment in some instances, there are more effective ways of achieving same end goal.

abbey621:
Are you saying all those people represents the majority of Nigerians? All the folks you mentioned, are they up to 2 million? It's just like saying the police killing black folks, the white supremacists, the mass murderers, the hoodrats, the drug dealing elegbon in the USA all represents the parenting style of Americans......We all know that's only part of the picture and not the entire picture!

Every nation has it's delinquent. It's one thing to have a rough few and another to have a police force that appeals for bribe openly at every juncture.

That aside, if the goal of beating children is to make better adults and hence society, can you use Nigeria as an example and show us how that has worked out for our society?

richmond500:
between Nigerians and the UK, which people do u think have zero respect for adults?

Respect and it's perception is relative.

For example, that a Yoruba child kneels to greet his parent does not make him more respectful than his Igbo counterpart who doesn't do same. An average Igbo parent would likely caution their child should he kneel to greet.

What are your indices in grading respect for adults?

What is the primary outcome of beating children? If its to instill discipline and make better adults and society. How is our society faring? Are there no equally effective means to instill discipline outside violent beating?

abbey621:
Funny.....Upon all the talking and loving, being their friend and having an open mind, guess what? Kids living in the USA and the UK are 50 times more disobedient and wayward than Nigerian kids, this is pure undiluted fact! When all things are equal in terms of shelter, food and attention, Nigerian kids are angelic compared to those American kids calling their mom and dad, Joe & Betty!

Let's forget 9ja and focus on black Americans, households where at least one parent is a disciplinarian are often better off than one without a disciplined parent. You'll hear a black kid tell his friends, "my mama don't play that, big mama will slap you upside your head if you misbehave!"

When you say disobedient and wayward, it's good to see the larger picture.
The best way of grading the kind of discipline a child gets is to grade the adult and society it produces.
Police folk asking for bribe at every stop, immigration folk asking for bribe at airports, villages being raided and hundreds killed while the nation remains silent. All these rampant atrocities were done by adults who were fully disciplined.

What is driving all the atrocities we see in our nation if flogging is the answer? Were these adults not flogged enough?

Lexusgs430:
- They are usually heavier on the foot
- Excessive engine vibration
- Offensive smell
- DPF clogging
- EGR values failure

I hate diesel vehicles with a passion......😭

It seems these are issues limited to quite old diesel cars. In general old cars - petrol or diesel can be an issue.

I drive a ULEZ compliant diesel with quite good fuel economy. Typically visit the workshop yearly for it's annual service and I clock north of 8000 miles a year.

BorisJohnson:
Oga Lexus…
This your thought process is like asking people to migrate to Dutse (Jigawa State) or Nguru (Yobe state) or Zungeru (Kebbi State) or Monguno (Borno state) or Oye-Ekiti (Ekiti State) or Abatete (Anambra State) or Nembe (Bayelsa State) etc….

In ALL the places I mentioned above, they can get a 5 bed bungalow for less than the price of a 1/2 bed face-me-I-face-you in Abuja or Lagos.

Question is: Are there jobs? What (really) is the point of moving away from London to Hull or Sunderland or Middlesbrough or Newcastle or Durham or etc… and there are no jobs there? You buy/rent cheaply, but there are no jobs. What’s the point?

You could easily flip this as the UK is structured in many ways.

The question would be would you et same pay for your job role outside London?
The exclusive high paying roles limited to London are few. A good chunk of these are now partly remote.

Question is if you're renting in London and earning a decent pay, can one match that pay in a nice but cheaper town hence increase its mileage

dominique:
But the boy was not kidnapped or coerced to donate his kidney, he offered to. He was the one willing to sell his kidney to highest bidder so why make him a victim? Ekweremadu is a corrupt politician that deserves to be flung in jail for stealing but that boy is no victim! He agreed to it, he's not underaged neither is he mentally unfit to decide on his own. I hope the UK authorities deports his snaky ass.

The UK and most countries rightly have strong laws against buying and selling organs for reasons lime this.

If Dangote decides to take an almajiri off the street and take him to UK to become his slave then he should serve same sentence.
Saying that someone chose to be a slave or sell their organs should not go against basic laws of humanity

Kacek:
Hello, Please can someone help with this question.
The 20hours limit for 2nd employment on Tier 2 visa, does it include overtime hours?

The 20hr limit does not include extra work or overtime with your primary employer i.e employer who is sponsoring your visa.

It only comes into play if you want to do extra hours elsewhere.
If you are a healthcare worker, that limit has been lifter till June

KOVIC19COVID20:
Stocks & Shares ISA.

Last year, a veteran on this thread shared a link. I downloaded Freetrade app. I have been saving for house deposit using moneybox LISA.
Now, I am in position to be saving £100 weekly. I would really like to be buying sticks & shares on the Freetrade app.

My problem is, I don’t know which ones to buy. What constitutes intelligent buying. And which ones to avoid.

Please can people help me? I understand you will always add the ‘No financial advise’ disclaimer. But please. Any pointers? Or sharing of experiences?

Please help.

@Justwise
@TheGuyFromHR
@Lexusg430
@Ralphlauren
@Solumtoya
@LagosIsMyHome

You could start from this video series... if looking to invest for the longterm (as it should be), there are a few books you should consider reading.
In summary, a passive fund that tracks most of the global market would overtime give you stress-free and cheap return


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_chiIIxMGl0

DoDirtsLikeWorm:
6£ said you done cross the bridge?
You dey YouKay already...Dey play

What you said ought to be the way forward, but what U're saying is tantamount to shutting the door behind you...Dont

It's not wrong to report such extortion.

jum33:
I dont think there is any alternative o when it come to taking another empoyment as a sponsored skilled worker as his current employer has a big role to play in the process of changing sponsored jobs .
By law he can't bypass his current employer to take another sponsored employement elsewhere as UKVI cannot even grant him a new COS if his current employer doesnt cancel the current one .Since he still has a binding contract on his neck , he just have to find a way of settlling his contact with his current employer so that he can be gracefully released without any issue.
But come to think of it ,this naija employer wicked no be small sha ,5 years binding contract to work as dom carer ? impossicant i am yet to see any carer that can achieve that without breaking his/her back

That's not true.

You can leave a job with 3 yr cos even 6 weeks after starting provided you have given your notice period.
There are clear laws against anti-slavery and poor labour tactics. If the employer messes up, they stand to loose more.

Macktaob:
@jedisco, @Saylor1, if only we could get your insights and copy trade you just like before.

Bear market has been slow but I trade and check charts much less..

My pattern of trading betece has been simple and streamlined to worked well over time.

I use the 21wk ema. Once bitc0in broke above I waited for a successful retest and placed bids at 21.3k. Those could be my last bitc0in purchase for sometime.. except those numbers are hit again or another retest of that average around 24k.

Below this average, alts are hot potato. For the last year when bitc0in was below this average, alts have been so knackered. Given the drawdown, I believe the risk:reward for the medium term is more in favour of alts. Some have been so knocked down that if bitc0in holds steady, they'd easily see 2x. Concern is how they'd fare should bitc0in dip further.

nabiz:
Reading your mind it seems you don't actually understand the meaning of NEXT OF KING. Your next of King is not thr per to inherit your assets if you are no more. There is different between Will and next of king. Next of king is a person to be contact in case of emergency or who will help you do what you can not do for yourself. While will is some one you authorize to benefit your property in case of your dead. I may be wrong sha

Next of kin not king

PulaPower:
She said before she left for Dubai, “Madam had said I would pay her N5 million when I get here. I told her the money was too much but she told me that when I get here and find out that the other girls here are not paying up to that I should let her know, but that it is N5 million that all the girls in Dubai are paying.”

This particular scenario isn't trafficking tho cuz she was informed before leaving naija..

Could you shut up!
I hope the law catches up with such people

crows2ravens:
Causes of loneliness abroad, not only UK:
* Most people do shifts, and the weekend pays are higher. So it is uncommon for friends to be off-duty on same days, or even same time of the day. No time to visit or hangout.
* Working abroad is not like Nigeria where you will have time to gist with your colleagues during work hours. Even if you're not that busy at work, it's unethical to leave your workstation without good reason.
* It's common to have a chat with your neighbours in Nigeria but in the UK except you have Nigerian neighbours (Indians too like to make friends), you might not even know them. Most people mind their business even in shared houses.
* Other places to quickly make friends are churches and mosques, and many people don't attend them in the UK.
* Hangouts (bars and clubs) are not cheap like Nigeria. Friends also hangout less.
* Except you've been friends from home, Nigerians are very careful with making new Nigerian friends abroad. We all know why - we don't trust one another that much.
* You can't hear people discussing politics or sports (football) or "the situation of the country" in the bus or train. Not even someone speaking loudly on the phone. No "conductor my change" or "Jibowu wá o" or "driver take it easy oo" or two drivers quarrelling after bashing their cars - all those drama that keep your mind busy when you are moving around in Naija.

Despite all that no one of them had returned home!

Also, most Nigerians grew in a different cultural environment and do not engage with some activities folks abroad socialise with. Sometimes, they see it as a waste of time or money e.g riding or running clubs etc. There are a number of means to have fun but folks would rather pick up extra shift