₦airaland Forum

@Olorioko
Osama bin laden has more fanatical followers than Crook Oyakhilome and no matter how much evil he does they would always follow him,that apart Jesus already foretold that "even God's chosen ones would almost be deceived" by these false teachers how much less the ignoramus that attend CEC in droves. So live story a crook is a crook is a crook no matter how much they try to white wash him. He fails the minimum bible test of the furits he displays woefully, it is the fruits of his ministry to that so many of his members are stealing money in their places of work just togive to his "ministry" it is also the fruits of his ministry that so many of his acolates come to this forum to spew out heresies on a regular basis.

otitokoro1:
Please read *Deuteronomy 14:24-25, you will have more understanding of tithes beyound the Leviticus quotes. You are right but not well informed about tithes.

If you can read it may help you better.

To all Thanks for your valuable contribution. Please do more.

Bless you.

I would better than that and quote it from deut 14:22-29 so that you would not be able to quote it out of context. The only reason the tither was asked to convert the tithe to money was for ease of transportation as they did not have vehicles in those days. Even at that when the tither got to the temple he was still rquired to use the money to buy whatever he wanted and eat it in the presence of God with his family. If God had intended tithe to be money for the levites, God would have simply instructed that he handed over the monetary proceeds of the tithes to the priests/levites but God did not he asked the tither to consume it with his family first and secondly he asked them not to forget the orphans, widows, foreigners and levites for the simple reason that this category of people did not have land to produce from, this reason is not applicable today.

PS: I am amused you are actually bold enough to quote from deut 14[even though you were trying to quote it out of context] cos it is this same passage that thousands are now reading all over the world and is proving to us that tithing the way it is preached and defined today in churches is a scam. This passage provideds the proper definition and execution of the tithes ordained by God as opposed to the man made 419 version being preached in churches today. Below is the deut passage in it's proper context

Deuteronomy 14:22-29:

The Giving of Tithes
22 “You must set aside a tithe of your crops—one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year. 23 Bring this tithe to the designated place of worship—the place the Lord your God chooses for his name to be honored—and eat it there in his presence. This applies to your tithes of grain, new wine, olive oil, and the firstborn males of your flocks and herds. Doing this will teach you always to fear the Lord your God.

24 “Now when the Lord your God blesses you with a good harvest, the place of worship he chooses for his name to be honored might be too far for you to bring the tithe. 25 If so, you may sell the tithe portion of your crops and herds, put the money in a pouch, and go to the place the Lord your God has chosen. 26 When you arrive, you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want—cattle, sheep, goats, wine, or other alcoholic drink. Then feast there in the presence of the Lord your God and celebrate with your household. 27 And do not neglect the Levites in your town, for they will receive no allotment of land among you.

28 “At the end of every third year, bring the entire tithe of that year’s harvest and store it in the nearest town. 29 Give it to the Levites, who will receive no allotment of land among you, as well as to the foreigners living among you, the orphans, and the widows in your towns, so they can eat and be satisfied. Then the Lord your God will bless you in all your work.

[quote author=aloy-emeka link=topic=432384.msg5913942#msg5913942 date=1271618975]Why not search records and see where Oyedepo donated money that affected the lives of many Nigerians. Do you know how many crusades he finances for some churches that couldn't afford them?. You just don't know anything about blessed papa.[/quote]Yes i am awarre that Oledepo donates a few peanuts from time to time as a P.R gimmcik to give people the impression that he is assisting others, a case in poit was on his birthday last year when he sent some pastors in his church to go and donate five bags of rice worth less than 50k to an old peoples home[which incidentally is owned and run by a catholic church] he also sent a press crew with them to ensure it got maximum publicity. For a man who is that wealthy especially someone that made his money form the gospel by diverting money for the poor to his personal pocket, that donation was miserable and conceited.

Mudley313:
corrected

Thanx

Pastor Chris avoids preaching outside his churchcult setting becos it would be very difficult for him to stage his fake miracles in environments not set and choreographed by his hench men.

jagunlabi:
Uh Oh!! I am hearing a brand new song in the christian world!!

CEC adherents are not christians, they are cultists masquerading as christians.

[quote author=aloy-emeka link=topic=432384.msg5912719#msg5912719 date=1271600639]Thats what we expect pastors to be doing. Building schools and enhancing other civic duties as well as propagating the pathway for the populace to improve spiritually.[/quote]Unfortunately people like your bishop are also building schools even though they just see it as an additional means of exploiting the gullible muguns that worship them.

@Poster
Is it a personal donation or a donation done on behalf of MFM?

e36991:
@^^

Mountain of Fire and Miracles Ministries handing over buildings to St. John's CAC

Testament that there are no denominations in heaven . . .
Well done Dr. Daniel Olukoya - wasnt even present to gloat over it

How good is that. Noteworthy and commendable

PS Aloy-Emeka thanks for the FYI

He donated to his alma mater, the donation had nothing to do with denomination or even church, it's just like any old student contributing something back to the school that raised him.

nuella2:
@kunle

I dont farm to make a living. Am paid in naira in my office, so how do i pay my tithe, cos i will pay tithe till Jesus comes. Go and buy yam from the market with my money to tithe? Like i said i will pay my tithe, i love to tithe, kai, its a sweet way to offer worship.

The mistake you are making is that you have been made to belieive you should tithe from your earnings, this is contrary to the scriptures which states clearly that tithes should be strictly from the produce of the land of Israel. if you don't produce from the land, you were not required to tithe. You have to remember that even in the biblical times not all people were farmers and there was no provision for them to tithe. Biblical tithing has absolutely nothing to do with income, it is greedy preachers that twist the scriptures to say so. That is apart form the fact that tithing is not even a christian obligation as it was part of the outdated and obsolete mosaic laws which has since been anulled and rendered useless.

Lets see how the bible defines tithes contrary to the fraudulent definition being promoted now adays by monitizers of the gospel:

Leviticus 27:30:

   30 “A tithe of the produce of the land, whether grain from the fields or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord and must be set apart to him as holy.

Deuteronomy 26:12:

   12 “Every third year you must offer a special tithe of your crops. In this year of the special tithe you must give your tithes to the Levites, foreigners, orphans, and widows, so that they will have enough to eat in your towns.

Deuteronomy 14:22:

22 “You must set aside a[b] tithe of your crops—one-tenth of all the crops [/b] you harvest each year.

And of course, probably the most abused scripture in the bible and a favourite of gospel merchants  the almighty malachi 3:10

Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies, “I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test!

Clearly based on the authority of the bible, tithe is strictly crops produced from the land of Israel and nothing else any body that says it is money/income/increase is clearly twisting the word of God.

Your poll criteria is clearly floored and not based on scripture as the bible makes it clear that tithe is strictly agricutural produce and NOT any of the rubbish you listed in your so called pre-meditated "poll". As far as christianity is concerned tithes is a scam. If you really want to have a "free and fair" poll i suggest you increase the options and include such things as "fraud""419""scam" in the poll.

Snowwy:
@KunleOshob,

You have suddenly stopped talking about the Hebrews 7 scriptures you brought up which showed that tithes came before the law, was observed during the law and after the law. Or should I say your favourite scripture you misinterpreted to discredit tithe got busted?

Hebrews 7 makes it crystal clear that tithing and the levitical priesthood has been anulled any which way you want to interprete it, the fact that like your mentors you choose to twist scriptures and interprete it in a way that suits you does not change that fact. That aside the onus is on tithe mongers to show us from undiluted scriptures that tithing is required for christians as the apostles commissioned by christ to establish christianity never taught the scam as part of Apostolic teachings. Remember the bible also warns againt adding to the scriptures, removing from it or twisting it   if you choose to place your self under the curse of tithing, na you know, at least you can't claim that you were not told.  

@Image123
I understand your own problem, even though you have since known that tithing is unscriptural you can't denounce it and repent because of your love for filthy lucre. I suggest you go get a decent Job and stop living off deceiving others.  

@snowwy
As you would recall the tithe spoken of in Malachi 3:10 is based on the obsolete Jewish laws, i sincerely hope you ae not basing your tithing on the irrelevant malachi passage hence ou could be in danger of cutting yourself away from the saving Grace of our lord Jesus Christ going by what is written in Galatians 5:4

Galatians 5:4:
4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.

Also

Galatians 3:10-13:

10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.” 11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.” 12 This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”

13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”

The above is very clear, don't allow any one to put you under a curse by trying to fufill an obsolete law. The law [tithing inclusive] is not relevat to christians and trying to keep it is actually dangerous for ones salvation as it shows lack of faith in the saving grace of christ. As the good book says "people perish for lack of knowledge" i pray such does not become your case IJN amen.

away4real:
@ Kunle, Thanks but I am not privy to those facts, you might be right on the reasons he left RCCG but again you might be wrong unless we can verify the "facts". Some of us have been away a bit from Nigeria so we really cant tell of these well known facts, there are a lot of stories which often upon close scrutiny can not be verified, really just stories of what people heard or think.

It does however suggest the topic of the thread an offshoot of the title of the story is extremely misleading because it does not answer "why i quit Redeemed church". It has more to do with politics to me.

Well i did not create the title of the thread, it was culled from a news article. even then he stated in the interview that reveal everything when he writes his memoirs

@snowwy
The onus still remains on tithing proponents to show us from undiluted scripture why christians should tithe and the basis for twisting the word of God in the bible to justify the type of unbiblical tithing being preached today.

away4real:
@kunle Please i read the first post and the links and all, but I couldn't really see where Tunde Bakare stated why he left RCCG, there were a lot of issues raised there mainly political and then Oyedapo but on RCCG I couldnt see anything.

Please can you provide the details i.e. link or maybe just copy out the whole story and bolden the part of where Tunde Bakare gave his reasons. Cheers

Well i don't have any link i can refer you to at the moment but it is a known fact that Bakare has been an open critic of RCCG and Pastor Adeboye for several years now, he was a senior pastor in RCCG so he should know first hand the hypocrisy going on there which some of us are only getting to know in the last couple of years.

otitokoro1:
I expected Pastor Tunde Bakare a Senior Pastor and an overseer of a church to apply wisdom in a matter like this.

He should understand that Christianity is about your personal relationship with God. After all Jesus did not command anyone to start a church he anlo commanded us to go and make disciples of all nation.

Bakare should not start to at this tiome when his own church is no longer enjoying popularity and castigate other people.

I would have respected him if he realised that there is no single church that work in according to the plan of Jesus Christ. Every church have deviated from the vision of Jesus Christ (Jhn 17:21). Churches have turned to a business venture, marketing have replaced evangelism in our church. May God forgive all Religious leaders.

I choose to worship in whatever church I attend because God says we should not forsake the gathering of other believers. Instead of Bakare pointing accusiong finger on others, he should look at where he failed, make a change and then he will be able to say the truth.

Bakare from time is a politician, he fouinded his church on deciet now that people are getting wiser, he intend to draw others with him.

It is my wish that All Christians may be one.

On the contrary Pastor Bakare left RCCG becos of the deceit and the hypocrisy in the church that many did not know then, nowpeople are getting wiser and seeing that RCCG is just a business conglomerate.

Image123:
I WILL TITHE AND TITHE AND TITHE TILL I tighten every untightened blessing to myself forever more.
Tithe haters can go and vomit. TITHE FOR LIFE

Abeg stop making noise it is obvious you are a tithe collector and not a giver of tithes. Your fellow cohorts who used to argue with me on tithing three years ago have since seen the light and walked out of bondage. You are the only one still rooting for it cos of the filthy lucre you enjoy from it don't worry very soon this campaign against tithes would be escalated and it would come into the full glare of the public back with biblical facts that tithing is a fraud against christians i would see how you would continue to receive "TITHE FOR LIFE" after that.

Snowwy:
@KunleOshob,
you can see where interpretation plays a major role in God's word. I have read, re-read and this is the 'commandment' you are talking about :

Please pay cognisance to verse 16. 'WHO IS MADE' not after the law of a carnal commandment.
The priests were made then after the tribe Moses spake of concerning priesthood which are Levites.

This scripture shows that Jesus is our priest not after the carnal law of only Levites being priests but after the power of an endless life.

Thats the reason for the emphasis in Vr 17 and 21 below:
(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

That is the commandment here relating to verse 18.
Do re-read and let the Lord inspire you and don't be quick to judge this matter.

Any which way you want to look at it, from that passage we can deduce that tithing was a requirement of the levitical priesthood which we are no longer under, so wether it was talking about tithes directly or indirectly as part of the levitical preisthood it has been anulled and described as weak and unprofitable   That apart there is not one single shred of evidence that the culture of tithing was introduced to christianity by the apostles who where ordained by christ himself to spread the gospel and establish the "church". Tithing was never part of christian giving even though there are tonnes of teachings on giving by the apostles, not one of them ever mentioned tithes remotely except the writer of Hebrew who condenmed it along with the levitical priesthood. Surely if tithing was meant to be a part of christian practises the apostles would have taught on it, instead they taught fre will givings as predetermined in our heart.

That aside i have proven to you that mordern day tithing is totally different from the one ordained by God in the old testament, implying that what is practised today is twisted, wrong and not in consonance with the directives of God to the Israelites[not christians] I also showed you a passage in the bible were God himself stated preachers twist his word becos of their greed, is this tithe episode not a very glaring case of God's word being twisted   i would like to have your comments on this twist angle co it is obvious tithing today has been twisted from biblical tithing.

@snowwy
I decided to post the hebrew passge i mentioned which makes it clear that tithing is not meant for christians.

Hebrews 7:5-19:

5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

6But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

11If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hope you noticed the correlation between verse 5 and verse 18, it is the same "commandment" mentioned in verse 5 that was anulled in verse 18, but your pastor wouldn't show you these parts of the bible becos of their love for filthy lucre.

@snowwy
Apart from the fact that tithes the way it is defined and preached by churches today is wrong as biblical tithes was never money but produce of the land which is not equal to one's total earnings or in the cases of non - farmers it was not even part of their earnings [Even the tithe Jesus spoke about in matthew 23 was not money but mint and cummin which were herbs and not money] tithes was anulled in the bible for christians, a careful study of hebrews 7 makes this crystal clear. If you read the deuteronomy passage i referred you to, you would have read that tithes was food eaten by the tither and his family himself and also shared with the less priviledge and levites in the presence of God. How can this now possibly be twisted to mean money to meant exclusively for pastors or the church It still beats my imagination. One reading of deuteronomy 14:22-29 is usually enough to convince the most ahdent tithers that the way it is defined in churches today is a fraud, i wonder why you hang on to this fallacy, is it beocs of the threats of curses pastors used to intimidate people into falling for the scam? The bible says that "ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" [from bondages such as compulsary tithing] Why then do pastors twist God's word and preach tithing contrary to the biblical standard that is not even relevant to christians? The bible answers this question aptly in Jeremiah 8:

Jeremiah 8:8-10:

8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?
9 These wise teachers will fall
into the trap of their own foolishness,
for they have rejected the word of the Lord.
Are they so wise after all?
10 I will give their wives to others
and their farms to strangers.
From the least to the greatest,
their lives are ruled by greed.
Yes, even my prophets and priests are like that.
They are all frauds.

It still beats my imagination why any sane right thinking person would come to the conclusion that there is no God despite all the abundant evidence around us.

OLAADEGBU:
@Analytical,

Good job. We need more of your pin point analysis especially in the NL Christian thread.

You ought to read his analysis on the tithing scam, i am sure you would appreciate his "pin point" analytical skills better. 

@snowwy
Do you know how God defined tithes? or how God said it should be practised as opposed to the twisted version of itbeing preached today to deceive believers? If you don't read deuteronomy 14:22-29, it would help you to understand tithing better.

@snowwy
Apart from the fact that it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt on this forum that tithing is not required of christians by God, Jesus already addressed religious frauds like this in matthew 15:

Matthew 15:3-9:

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? 4 For instance, God says, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ 5 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ 6 In this way, you say they don’t need to honor their parents. And so you cancel the word of God for the sake of your own tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,
8 ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God

elelem:
The early church was God centered and they paid attention to the needs of the breathren but most churches now are pastors and reverend centered and they are forced to pay attention mostly to the needs of the pastors and their family

This captures the fraud in the established churches we have today, the church truly needs to return to christ!

davidylan:
is joagbaje claiming to be a christian?

Nope he doesn't claim to be a christian, he claims to be a "god".

noetic16:
where is kunlOshob?

I am here, i saw thethread earlier but decided not to comment becos he topic and thinking behind the thread is sickening enough, sometimes i wonder if these so called christians read their bibles at all, lets see what the master has to say about such "respect" to "men of God" in Matthew 23:

Matthew 23:5-11:

5 “Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside, and they wear robes with extra long tassels. 6 And they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the seats of honor in the synagogues. 7 They love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi.’
8 “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters. 9 And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. 10 And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you must be a servant

Nice observation Ogajim, it obviously not a coincidence that pastor chris adherents keep substituting his name for christ and vice versa, it shows the level of brain washing they see him has CHRIST, he must definitely be one of the false christs Jesus wa talking about in matthew 24:

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Joagbaje:
You shoould know by now I dont waste my time responding to people like you again. maybe someone else will help your ignorance.

2 Tim. 3:7
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


Anybody out there

And Joagabje having been caught pants down scampers off again in shame with tail in between his legs 

Joagbaje:
What qualified James as head of the Church in jerusalem? My guess: "he was Jesus's younger brother!

The same James that was a "baby" christian 

Joagbaje:

Matthew 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

I am sorry your holiness, i forgot i was addressing a "god".

Joagbaje:
I did acknowledge that James had great principles , you may go back and read them. But his depth of James revelation knowledge is shallow , compared to Paul's . John the baptist had great principles too. but I am greater than john. How do you reconcile the differences in James teaching and Pauls teachings, or you didnt observe any conflict?

Greater than John indeed, i laugh in summersaulting spiritual tongues. You are that great and yet you are still doing boiboi to a very ignorant charlatan who Just sees te gospel as a meal tickect. Even your Oga is very shallow an his only area of specialization is in the debauchery of the bible and manipiulating it to say things it doesn't say and when scriptures are shown to clearly oppose his heretics he dimisses the scriptures and claims he has "revelation". yeye bunch of ignorant 419 charlatans. you better wake up and renounce this cult which you operate it and start seeking true salvation.