₦airaland Forum

In the absence of thoughtful correspondence from our usually virile and vocal Muslim devotees. I shall proceed to re-count my findings,

Shahid is a religious term in Islam, meaning "witness", but often the term "martyr." is assumed and it is a title for Muslims who have died fulfilling a religious commandment, or waging war for Islam.

The concept of martyrdom in Islam is linked with the entire religion of Islam. It is assumed (by unbelievers such as me) that the Arabic root salama, which means 'surrender' and 'peace', Islam is a wholesome and peaceful submission to the will of Allah. It means that one must prepared to die (martyrdom) in the course of this submission. It is a concept that can only be fully appreciated by one who is a devout muslim and has submitted fully to the will of Allah

The shahid is promised a place in paradise according to the Koran:

Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord; They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah. And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (martyr's) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve.
Koran, 3:169–170


Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through the Torah, the Gospel, and the Koran: and who is more faithful to his Covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme. „
Koran, 9:111

I am not an expert in deciphering hidden meanings and metaphors in grammar but the above (I believe) is straight-forward, devoid of fable and lore. it is a simple declaration of assurance and rewards that await a devotee martyred in the course of fighting a holy war. (Jihad)

There is a difference between a suicide bombing and being martyred [/b]in the course of a Holy War.

But let there be amongst you traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill yourselves: for verily God hath been to you Most Merciful!
If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God.
[b]Koran 4:29 – 4:30


Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 445:
Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, “A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him.”



Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 73:
Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak: ”And if somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Resurrection.


So where is this very fertile instruction coming from? . Let us explore further the Gharib Hadiths (strange, scarce, weak or forged hadiths)

Sunan al-Tirmidhi Hadith 2562:
The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: “The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah (a Damascus suburb) to Sana’a (Yemen)“


color=#990000]
The Prophet (PBUH) said, “Nobody who dies and finds good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah’s Cause).” Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:53[/color]

It is clear even to the "child" in Islam that suicide is discernible from martyrdom and that suicide is abhorred by the Holy Koran.

The Gharib Hadiths is considered weak because it has no Sanad - line or sequence of narration. This Hadith has a technical weaknesses in its chain of transmitters and is therefore not considered impeccable. Muslims are not required to believe in it.

The propagation of the 7 or 72 virgins as rewards for suicide bombing or martyrdom is a false teaching every muslim must discern and avoid because it makes mockery of the religion and its practitioners. to the point that anytime once hears of a suicide bombing, the next thing that easily comes to mind is all the virgins the bomber will have reveling intimacy with.

this is almost putrid. i would puke if i read any more, society founded on faith systems that speak from the 4 compass points of its mouth (to borrow from Wole Soyinka) either of today's popular religions (Islam and Christianity) have deceptively offered themselves as the sole solution to living a peaceful and righteous life, what exactly does the veil do for the woman and how does it stop the man from having carnal imaginations.

The failure of religion to move with the times is at the core of a challenging and evolving society, when in the past Arabs could not ride a donkey with a female passenger was understandable (the woody would be immense considering the proximity of bodies in the sweltering heat of the sahara). fast-forward to today when the donkey is no longer relevant, now you cannot sit in the back seat with a female, WTF , Jesus wore a dress cause the concept of trousers was from another society, Africans wore animal skin for loin-cloth or leaves when they got hungry and had to eat the leather loin-cloth , So now we tell our previously clotheless women what to wear because the West have opened our eyes to skirts, We used to go buck-naked all the time

Abu Zola:
The Quran is free from fraud

What about the Gharib Hadiths, I see you conveniently dodged my prickly question on 72 virgins and settled here instead. how so you

The Bible before the Koran and Ancient Greek Mythology before both, I wonder who is plagiarizing who

In the absence of thoughtful correspondence from our usually virile and vocal Muslim devotees. I shall proceed to re-count my findings,

Shahid is a religious term in Islam, meaning "witness", but often the term "martyr." is assumed and it is a title for Muslims who have died fulfilling a religious commandment, or waging war for Islam.

The concept of martyrdom in Islam is linked with the entire religion of Islam. It is assumed (by unbelievers such as me) that the Arabic root salama, which means 'surrender' and 'peace', Islam is a wholesome and peaceful submission to the will of Allah. It means that one must prepared to die (martyrdom) in the course of this submission. It is a concept that can only be fully appreciated by one who is a devout muslim and has submitted fully to the will of Allah

The shahid is promised a place in paradise according to the Koran:

Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord; They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah. And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (martyr's) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve.
Koran, 3:169–170


Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through the Torah, the Gospel, and the Koran: and who is more faithful to his Covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme. „
Koran, 9:111

I am not an expert in deciphering hidden meanings and metaphors in grammar but the above (I believe) is straight-forward, devoid of fable and lore. it is a simple declaration of assurance and rewards that await a devotee martyred in the course of fighting a holy war. (Jihad)

There is a difference between a suicide bombing and being martyred [/b]in the course of a Holy War.

But let there be amongst you traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill yourselves: for verily God hath been to you Most Merciful!
If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God.
[b]Koran 4:29 – 4:30


Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 445:
Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, “A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him.”



Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 73:
Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak: ”And if somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Resurrection.


So where is this very fertile instruction coming from? . Let us explore further the Gharib Hadiths (strange, scarce, weak or forged hadiths)

Sunan al-Tirmidhi Hadith 2562:
The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: “The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah (a Damascus suburb) to Sana’a (Yemen)“


color=#990000]
The Prophet (PBUH) said, “Nobody who dies and finds good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah’s Cause).” Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:53[/color]

It is clear even to the "child" in Islam that suicide is discernible from martyrdom and that suicide is abhorred by the Holy Koran.

The Gharib Hadiths is considered weak because it has no Sanad - line or sequence of narration. This Hadith has a technical weaknesses in its chain of transmitters and is therefore not considered impeccable. Muslims are not required to believe in it.

The propagation of the 7 or 72 virgins as rewards for suicide bombing or martyrdom is a false teaching every muslim must discern and avoid because it makes mockery of the religion and its practitioners. to the point that anytime once hears of a suicide bombing, the next thing that easily comes to mind is all the virgins the bomber will have reveling sex with. no wonder we have a scarcity of virgins globally.

you will not get any rational response to this question, i have posted exactly the same question and no one will touch it with a 10-ft pole.

The sort of response you get when the truth hits close to home

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-398187.0.html

Has anyone found any evidence yet? is it possible that there is actually no written record of this instruction that is so popularly used worldwide

@poster, u have a very simple answer to a very complex problem

Simply recite this and you are a full-blooded Muslim

Shahada,
There is no God except Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.


Recitation with understanding of true meaning of this phrase is all that is required for converting to Islam. a simple creed but has very profound meaning in it and the faith behind it.

By making this declaration and by accepting the obligations of Islamic Law, anyone can join this fastest growing religion. Any person who sincerely believes that there is only One True God, worthy of worship - Allah - the Creator, the Sustainer, the Lord of the Heaven and the Earth and all that exists; and accepts that Muhammad (pbuh) was the last and final Messenger of Allah, is a Muslim.

It took me at least nearly 2 weeks of questions to some Muslim friends and a visit to the a Muslim scholar at Obalende to try and understand what I now suspect to be either a myth, misquote or simply a lie that has been propagated throughout history,

I understand that I am not Muslim and lack the scholastic experience to analyze the open or hidden meanings of the Koran so I have picked a topic that is reasonably free from misquote, mis-interpretation and understanding (even a 10 year old will understand the question clearly).

So please be patient and answer this question with a sense of
1: Clarity and Truth (only say what you know for sure and is the truth by the Koran)
2: Support directly from the Koran or Hadith (anything else will be assumed to be unconfirmed or at best fiction)
3: No reference to allegories i.e no statement of metaphor, parables, stories, tales, symbolism or fables

I believe the above criteria removes the possibility that answers to this question will be contaminated with spurious arguments and unnecessary embellishments that often characterize arguments on NL. Your answers must show FACT and must be supported in the Koran or Hadith. anything else will be construed as a lie.

One more thing, you are free to re-phrase the question if it offers more clarity so that the answers are not biased because the question is biased

Thank you for your time

Some material i also viewed on the matter
[flash=425,344]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDd7qJmQ324[/flash]

[flash=425,344]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kreXb6yxJsE[/flash]

A Message toall those Intellectual Nigerians who write motivational stuff founded on theories thatonly work in a perfect world, This is saying, shove it.

Better get of your arm-chair and tell Nigerians exactly what to do and ot go to Chruch for solace or start sweeping dirty streets when your taxes are payin gfor it to be swept, only a violent (utterly consuming revolution will save this country)

i would not tell him anything, i won't even bother to ask. i mean, after centuries of wiping our lazy, sinful a.rses and even sacrificing his only (ONLY) begotten son for our sorry behinds, we are still falling his shoulder and allowing SATAN to laugh at him every second,

I would simply look him in the eye and understand his frustration. sit back and pick up a chill bottle of heineken and watch the EPL

jatwill:
the people dat says there is no God will be the onces dat first shout "God help me" when they are involve in an accident. i have seen it happen

I say God-Damn when i see a fine chic with a PHAT BOOTY walk past, what do you make of that

A 70-year old Trap! , and he is young mentally? well maybe disciplinary issues will subside once Baba TRAP! comes into the SE and winds up the NFF

But really is this the best we can come up with since dumping our World Cup Qualifying and Bronze-winning Coach Amodu, I bet Festus Onigbinde has a word to say about this,after all they should be about the same age . oya baba festus, over to you

[quote author=t.truth link=topic=394285.msg5507492#msg5507492 date=1266069619]You are 100% right. They actually don't know anything about the Quran (Satanic verses) and Muhammedan Islam.

Welcoming these satanic and vicious people is like welcoming  pythons and vipers. Pythons and vipers have no friend. They will come in subtly as a long term sleeper. At the right time, they will bite the host to death. I hope its not too late for them to wake up. Or they will hijack power and impose their satanic agenda on their host.

This reason why Nigeria is not moving froward is because these vicious human beings are the one controlling power in Nigeria.[/quote]Why Nigeria is not moving forward is plainly obvious is it not,  Religion & Politics (Thank God for Majek-Fashek)

On one hand we have 60+ million Muslims and 40+ million Christians and others,  the third largest Christian population and 5th largest muslim nation,  I am surprised God or Allah does not have an outstation here,  we have got to be the largest bunch of dimwits this side of the planet not to have any positive impact on socio-economy over the past 50 years,  Amazing!,  Religion must be outlawed,  because it is the only escape for docile, cowardly and insatiably poor 150 million nigerians,  that is the reason why we have not moved forward since independence 

though i hate this facade of dementia called religion, i'd have to say i am deeply tempted to join the band-wagon. this preachign business is da shizzzzle

@Abuzola, thank you for that, even though i can't say much for Islam and its wahala-by-force but from the dawn of independence these bastard preachers and their dim followers have held 150 million nigerians in a grand deception that has brought us to our present predicament, for all their vaunted powers of healing and visionary perception, they failed to bring our leader Yaradua from the jaws of death. abi are they telling us that Umaru deserves this, I stopped respecting church because the dim reverend father claimed that even of we hate our leaders, God put them there for a reason and a man cannot be president if God is not behind him, for Nairalanders who recall this, you know which parish i am talking about, a qtr of the youths stopped coming to mass. i can do just fine with God without erring preachers and false prophets thank u

viaro:
What has the disease called atheism offered anybody?

You have not answered the question dear sir. I'd expect you to list out benefits, challenges and possible options not an outright evasion by asking another question rhetorically, please answer the question first

@dogur forgive my drunk dribble. but i am sober now so let me explain better.

From the OT
Deuteronomy 30:15
See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction.

This sets the tone for judging whether God is responsible for natural disasters but let me clarify for you. there are two schools of thought on Bible verses

1: The School of Thought that believe OT and NT verses are universally applicable to all circumstances and everyone irrespective or race, creed or color. (without exception)


2: The School of Thought that believe OT is Living Under the Law and NT is Living Under The Grace and that we are no longer under the law but by special grace offered by the Death of Jesus making Salvation free to all men and free from the OT Laws. Hence the terms Old and New Covenant.

Now back to the issue at hand. I believe there are several supporting verses in the OT that proves that God indeed is the author of every destructive natural disaster ever recorded in the Bible.please see evidence below

Numbers 16:32-35
"And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation. And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also. And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense."

Exodus 12:29-30
"And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead."


I Chronicles 21:12
"Either three years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel, "


I Chronicles 21:14
"So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men."



II Chronicles 14:9
"And there came out against them Zerah the Ethiopian with an host of a thousand thousand, and three hundred chariots, "



II Chronicles 14:12
So the LORD smote the Ethiopians before Asa, and before Judah; and the Ethiopians fled.



I Samuel 6:19
"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."


Now all the Above are calamities instituted under Bible Law in the Old Testament,  whether you have Free-will to choose God or gods,  you will suffer the consequences of not Choosing GOD.


Now let us look at the New Covenant of Faith unto Salvation from the Death of Jesus Christ, which is meant to temper the harsh and immediate consequences of OT Law.

GOD seems a tad benevolent in the NEW TESTAMENT than the OLD TESTAMENT and we have a logical reason. If Jesus came to die for our sins so that we are not under the OT Law, then GOD will have no choice but to let democratic principles take its due course and in the end all will be Judged according to their Righteousness (NOT FAITH, BELIEF OR RELIGION)

But I ask you this, why is it important in the Old Testament to live only according to God's will (having given us the right to choose) why is he so bent on visiting death and destruction on those who decide, i want to exercise that choice you have given me and let me suffer the natural consequences,  We often talk about how Allah has such a violent and murderous streak evident in the instruction he gives his followers and we never seem to question the exact same violent and murderous streak we see in the Christian Faith,  I ask questions and it seems this sort of reasoning will make you enemies with coreligionists (people who take religion and its practice to heart but not its message)

If you give me choice, let me exercise that choice and do not punish me for making the "wrong" choice otherwise take away my ability to choose so that I am always right in you eyes,  but we see in the new testament, that is when God gives us absolute freedom to exercise that right to choose without burning us with hellish flames from heaven a few seconds later.

I hope this has cleared things up a bit 

blackcypha:
is it now safe to say that the god of the old testament is different from Jesus whom u christians claim is d same
as th OT god?
I mean why the sudden change from war and brutality in the OT to love .love love in the NT?, and u xtians just dont see it?
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT GNOSTICS WERE ACTUALLY CORRECT?

My friend, the Gnostics are too X-files for my liking but you are right, this game has been played since the dawn of time and the core problem (for God i.e) is that he gave man FREE-WILL or the Devil; not having free-will of his own, tempted man who (the usually obedient creation) exposed himself to self-consciousness and freedom to think. and throughout history; God has tried all sorts to rid man off Free-will, Hence the flood, and the scattering of the nation of united people who tried to build the tower of Babel and various machinations to bring this apparently contentious trait in man to order. His sample culture (the Israelites) are a key example of the enduring superiority of Free-will over conformity and dogma. they undeservedly warranted God's favor, disobeyed him too many times to count and even through all the brutal and grueling and utterly genocidal approaches to reigning their free-will under his command, they still stick their thumbs in his behind refusing to believe that his son Jesus The Messiah has left the building.

This new laissez-faire approach is the exact opposite of the authoritarian blend of the OT that did not work by the way and cost us a whole planet drowned and one soon to be consumed by fire.

It is one that is less costlier to implement for one thing. imagine the logistics and planning involved in flooding the earth, drowning the Egyptians, feeding a nation on manna then sending snakes to bite them and organizing military attacks against them when they absolutely exercise their free-will and abandoning them when it mattered the most. on the contrary, this new approach outsources the job of controlling free-will to RELIGION and boy has it worked wonders, you can imagine the growth rate of pious, unquestioning and totally obedient persons we have on the planet today, if worked right, Christians worldwide can pull nations out of a recession one nation at a time by donating 10% of their income to a worthy cause.

@Israel. things are better now, at least they are spending money not selling sacrificial items at cut-throat prices (thank god for Jesus)

A bazaar (بازار; باذار; pazar) is a permanent merchandising area, marketplace, or street of shops where goods and services are exchanged or sold. ,
http://www.google.com.ng/url?q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazaar&ei=IUZ0S8PUN42F-Qbi34HCAw&sa=X&oi=define&ct=&cd=1&ved=0CBcQpAMoAQ&usg=AFQjCNFgk0avs5MpdjkExoB_N67RzVRTNQ

Heaven is not Paradise I see no sense in this, but you are right about one thing though, the Greeks and Christians believe that Paradise is not far from Hell.

Your name cannot be on the list of those that go to heaven because St. Peter would have rubbed spit to clean and re-write it every time you sin and ask for forgiveness . he would be a frustrated gate-man by now.

What really happens is everyone's name is on the list of those going to hell (by default all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. pastors and imams included). so when you die, your value as a righteous person is calculated and if you do not make the cut-off mark, you go straight to HELL (where Ogaga is waiting for you). If you make the cut-off, then comes the post UME examinations. that you must pass before you enter heaven which is Are you catholic, protestant, Jew, Adventists, Mormon, baptist, Presbyterian, Redeemed, Winners, Celestial, OOO, 700-Club, MFM, Chosen, Jehovah Witness,Methodist, Anabaptist, Pentecostals, Brethren, Amish, Unitarians, Quakers , Charismatics, Anglicans, Episcopal, Coptic, Gnostic etc, If you fail this test, I pity you, you will find yourself back in HELL

Mr Mani, my previous mai guard (Bless his soul) would say when you stamp on a cockroach, drag your foot over it so you are sure it is crushed beyond recovery, otherwise when you come back in the evening, it has recovered and gone back into the kitchen. At moments like these you would wonder why not Strike the iron while it is hot   Sack him, Arrest him, Impeach David Mark and Timipre Sylva, Arrest Jang and Farida Waziri ASAP  

This is a politically advantageous position that can easily swing out of JGL's favor as soon as the tide is out. majority of the governors ad NAS are moving in one general direction, MEND is adding spice to the broth, Core North is clueless on what the future holds, we have USA pulling her diplomatic might to bear on the outcome of this drama, we have our South-South governors especially the Niger-Delta South eager to usher in a new era of unlimited looting and largess-hoarding with the Armed Forces not sure how to approach the possibility of losing their testicular grip on the nation's polity (from behind the scenes and on the NAS) and so far, everyone has moved on, UMYA is as dead as a refrigerated vegetable and Turai can see the writing on the wall. it is time to go without any complaint or struggle.

What JGL needs to be fully aware of is that he has very little political alliances and he can quickly build on that by forming a coalition of Activists (Falana, Soyinka etc), Military apologists (IBB, Buhari, Gowon) and the Sokoto Caliphate   (the North is not as united as you think). He should engage the youths from his ethnic region (as backup) and the Reps  as a check against the NAS.  He must begin to make noise about probes and investigations, Some reshuffling needs to be put in place in the Armed Forces because we have young, disciplined and progressive soldiers who are not like their power-drunk, fat-bellied corrupt generals littering the Air-force, Navy, Police and Army.

There is much work to be done in a short time (and he is not comfortable in that seat and many know it) He must assert himself before the elections otherwise, he will be just another Ernest Shonekan or Abdulsallami (the bleedin thief). and we would be non the better for it.

I am rarely surprised when such issues amaze us,  being christian does not mean u should become dull at doing sharp-sharp business,  gently as a dove, cunning as a snake,   

Only blind followers remain followers till the day they die,  true Christians break-away to form their own ministry,  expansion in a period of boom or recession. it does not matter. Christianity is not affected by reality thus unaffected by the Global Economic meltdown,  infact, the present credit crisis is a boon for churches, ministries and money ritualists, more and more adherents will flock to dole out their last cash in hope for a piece of heaven when they die and leave their wealth with their religious leaders,  indeed, the meek shall inherit the earth. what does that tell you,  INHERIT,  that is after the strong pastors have used it all up (chop belle full) and left crumbs behind. 

Religion is the opiate of society   we all need some religion to escape or cope with the various harsh realities of life, which is We are all responsible for our lives and the sheer thought of that leaves some people clueless as what next to do.

So they cast all their problems on God who is way behind on his long to-do list so much so that SATAN is allowed to run amok.
They absolve themselves of any responsibility to circumstances they are not in a position to control the outcome (that is where Faith & Belief comes in). If men where able to control 80% of what happens in their lives, they would not need religion, but hey, that is how the world is, it turns least when you expect it, sooo Deal with it and stop hiding behind God waiting for the world to turn in your favor, Lazy freaks  

The real winners in this religion game are the religious leaders with private jets and jerry curls, wealthy mansions, fat bank accounts, many wives and concubines and a whole bus-load of suicide bombers to send out at their slightest whim.  

Religion is what alcohol is to dead-beat alcoholics, an escape from reality, which is why It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven  

I am amazed that we still fall mugu to the same old politrickal theatrics that IBB turned into an art form

Imagine how everyone is breathing a sigh of relief, nostalgia, reminds me of the IBB days and Interim President Ernest Shonekan.

It would be nice to believe that the Senate for once took their eyes off the juicy largess they could be chowing down in Yaradua's absence to focus on filling the vacuum, abeg leave this matter for Nollywood directors Chico and Zeb Ejiro, I have seen this movie before and it stinks

They will perform signs and wonders and even deceive the minds of people, so says the Bible.
We are in the end times are we not, so why wonder when false prophets perform signs and wonders or buy jets or ask you to drop you TV set and Mattress as an tithe offering to God. as if he uses VITAFOAM in heaven

All false preachers and prophets will burn in hell where SATAN will prod there back-orifice with red-hot rods laden with sulfur

what is their address or website and do they cover the Ikoyi area

Thanks

@ABuzola certainly

I mean if you were going to plunk a nation scattered by God himself, you would think the dim UN will choose some part of europe to carve out or even siberia or some vast expanse of China to form the new nation of Israel. but what do they do. they choose to drop a chicken in the midst of wolves, what do you expect would happen. I mean credit to the Allies who brought hitler's reign to an end, but why spark off another endless crisis (because Israel in the Middle-East is just like a naked man in a stream filled with flesh-eating piranhas.

The jews on one hand have invited a whole lot of trouble and for what. a pile of blocks that represented Old jerusalem and for that countless of lives wasted over a religious relic. I mean why not let go off the old lands and build a new jerusalem replete with computers and facebook pages. I am lost as to why each regime of Israeli politicians continue to hold on to a piece of that past that is not even worth the value memory they ascribe to it,

George Bush I & II are by far the most devilishly demented presidents of the USA. It is sad the the Saudi's are in bed with these harlots and have the koran in one hand to boot. DEATH TO THE SAUDs

Let me be the first to say this,

I am blissfully pleased to see Muslims and Christians openly and un-reservedly criticizing the others belief in such rancid and insulting manner, devoid of all sense of instructional religion, ethics and polite aphorisms from the Holy Book(s)

This is truly how the trend should continue. my word, if these discussions where to be hosted in Iraq or Yemen or The Vatican, Seun would have been served up on a stake (thru his lower orifice) and slowly roasted till his eyes pop out.

Keep this up you guys, you are the very essense of progressive society where free speech is explored to its fullest without fear of beheadings, invasions or burning at the stake.

This is truly a precious experience for me

Thank you and Peace in the Middle-East

We are all destined to die and return to dust no matter how much we try to avoid it.

That is the only destiny i believe in. It is gravely unfortunate for some of my Hausa acquaintances that regularly try not to have entrepreneurial ambitions simply because they believe if it is in their destiny to be successful, wealthy and happy, then God will do it when the right time comes. otherwise they are content with sitting under a breezy shade and surviving on whatever meagre income they can beg,borrow or find by accident.

I believe that we make whatever destiny we choose and as long as we stay the course required to fulfill that destiny, then we will reach it.

ymdo:
"Osama", "Obama" ,  not much difference
you must be very dumb. the only reason why Islam is surviving is because [b]Allah promised to protect His religion. [/b]And that, HE will continue to do no matter how you people may hate it.

And please muslims beware. We've got a fanatist in the house

And how does Allah protect his religion? please give me the facts,  I cannot understand why Allah (or God or whatever pseudonym he has adopted of late) in his infinite wisdom, sees it fit to massacre his very creation whom he has put the right to reason or make their choices.  I simply do not get how a God full of infinite wisdom will try to impose his religion on others when he has rightly accepted that all will be judged on the last day. is he so impatient that he cannot stave his sadistic urges that he must send out countless brain-washed, dimwits to go out and kill children, women and innocent, productive members of society. just because his young ideology (Islam is a young religion) must take root. if God wanted us all to be radical muslims, he would have no need for prophets, he would simply wave his spunk-ridden hands and convert us all in one magical wave of stupidity. I believe this is happening in the UK (originally pagans, converted to Catholics or some related offsprings of Christianity). so why go to another man's land and demand that your religion be respected above everyone else, ?? I doubt every open-minded, righteous and progressive Muslim is for the idea of forceful conversion to the point of issuing threats and actually committing murders in the name of Allah. If you agree that such Muslims do not exist, then I'd have to say, OMG!! you lot are a bunch of myopic, dogmatic, wicked, selfish and brainwashed slaves, undeserving to be labeled humans in a free-thinking modern society. and you can sit on my middle finger and swivel 

@posters. 

I can agree with you that religion is occupies a significant magnificent position in majority of the world's population. it serves as an involuntary association that society leverages on to guide the actions of its citizens. (i.e outside the provision of constitutional law) look at how God is the foundation of every country's pledge or anthem. He occupies such a commanding reverence that you will find its symbolism in the highest court of law and in schools. Religion obviously takes precedence over factual science even if it negates the actual idea that such religion is founded on. but let us look at why Religion should be confined to the dusty archives of history. 

Over centuries we have seen how some religions have advanced the growth and improvement of societies as well as caused chaos, death and de-evolution of budding societies, ideologies and innovation in past and recent times. We do not need to look far to find the pivot on which many of the worlds deathly crisis are birthed on,  yes. you have guessed it. Religion. be it genocidal cleansing of Muslim Bosnia, Jos and  or christian killings in Indonesia, Iraq or Nigeria. it has always bared the un-arguable fact which is,  you cannot hold anyone or any institution for crimes committed in the name of religion (be it God or Allah) or any invisible, divine deity.

It is said that you cannot choose your family,but you can choose your friends. so it is with Religion. you are most likely going to be a Muslim if your parents are dogmatic, myopic and incontrovertibly unquestioning muslims (like-wise for christians). If you were born in India and have Hindu parents that train you from birth at a time that your mind is unformed but susceptible to ideas, the ideas will become like cement to your brain,blocking entrance to fresher ideas or prevent progressive thought from going out. you will see your religion as the sole valid religion and your God as the only one true God. and everything from written injunctions to sophism by religious leaders, you will eat and digest and act out in the Name of a god you have never seen, who has never appeared to anyone (with verifiable facts and witnesses) and who has this uncontrollable urge to dominate, punish (with impunity) and reward (obscenely) those who commit heinous crimes of murder in his name.

Though most religions have written record that encourage practitioners to be open-minded, logical, peaceful and progressive, it is saddening that humans have decided to ignore the practical aspects of religion and have taken on ceremonial rhetoric that will shame even the most vile demon. indeed religion has put SATAN out of a job.

My focus is not on religions of the world but on those that contain injunctions that require forceful conversion. If God or Allah requires his adherents  to forcefully and violently impose his beliefs on others, then he cannot in the same breath claim to have given freedom to think or the option to choose between good and evil (like the holy books so righteously claim).

I think Christianity/Islam should be forcefully outlawed because these religions pose the greatest danger to human freedom (as they have in the past). and the idea of an all-seeing, all-powerful all-merciful God who cannot raise his testicles and 3rd-leg (NL censor at work) to do his dirty work himself, but require millions of brain-washed slaves to kill and maim other purposeful, sane and peaceful humans, should be confined to the proverbial HELL where it rightly deserves to be.

Thank you and Peace in the Middle-East