₦airaland Forum

Some news from this kingdom called Saudi always upsets me. I pray to God to grant us real and sincere leaders to be custodians of the blessed land and two holy masajids.

LagosShia:
yes you are trying to make the many massacres against the household simple because others too were killed.i have explained it to you that there is a big difference when Hamzah was killed and when Hussain was killed.Hamzah was killed standing on the battle-field as a willing warrior in the days of the Prophet fighting for islam against the pagans of Quraysh in one of many battles.Hussain was besieged by a so called muslim caliph because he used his right not to pay allegiance to tyranny and enforce the oppression and legitimize the un-islamic yazeed.he was besieged with his family members and close companions and killed while thirsty and betrayed by the ummah who did not rescue him.

Both Umar and Usthman were killed by non-muslims because of their bad policies and discrimination against non-arab muslims,rightly or wrongly.both Imam Ali and Imam Hassan were killed again by a so called muslim caliph.they were both backstabbed.Muawiya paid Imam Ali’s servant to strike the Imam with a sword on the head in the holy month of Ramadan and while the Imam was doing sujood in the mosque of Kufa (during fajr prayer).

Imam Hassan was poisoned by his wife whom Muawiya bribed and promised her to make his un-godly son Yazeed to marry her.Imam Hassan was killed and Aisha prevented his body from being buried beside his grandfather,the holy Prophet.during his funeral procession,Muawiya’s men were raining arrows on the mourners.the same thing happen today when shia are mourning Imam Hussain and remembering karbala with street processions.the lovers of Muawiya in pakistan and elsewhere blow themselves up with explosives killing the shia mourners during Ashura.both Aisha and Muawiya are loved by sunnis.are the sunnis not following their footsteps of persecuting the Ahlul-Bayt and now their followers?

The tragedy of the Ahlul-Bayt is so sad and ugly that if we muslims turn a blind eye and try to make their calamity look ordinary and simple,Allah will not forgive us.infact Allah will consider us among their enemies if we don’t support their cause and uphold their memory by exposing the truth.

The calamities that started from the denial of Imam Ali’s right to succession to the denial of Sayyida Fatima of her inheritance to the assault of Umar on the house of Sayyida Fatima to the battle of jamal to the battle of siffeen to the matyrdom of Imam Ali and then Imam Hassan,only culminated when Imam Hussain was beheaded and the women of the Prophets household and children were taking in chains as captives while the head of Hussain was lifted on a spear.the tragedy of karbala was the clash between good and evil.this would have happened from day 1 when Imam Ali was denied his right to succession.if the Imam would have insisted harshly or even used force what happened to Imam Hussain in Karbala would have happened to Imam Ali in Medina.instead of yazeed,umar would have done that.and had that happened then,people would not have known the truth of the story.they will simply think it was a power tussle.we saw how the abuse against the Ahlul-Bayt continued for so long with impunity until Karbala.

It did not end in Karbala.the grandson of Imam Hussain,Zaid Ibn Ali was also matyred and his body hanged on a tree for years.finally he was burnt and his ashes scattered into the Eupherates river so that he will not have a tomb like his grandfather that will attract homage and reverence by lovers and supporters (as Imam Hussain,Zaid's grandfather, has in the holy city of Karbala in Iraq).all of our Imams that followed from the children of Hussain in the Household of the Prophet Muhammad were matyred.all the 12 imams and other members of the Prophet's household were unjustly killed or poisoned by so called muslims who were no more than hypocrites that held a grudge against the Prophet and so they wanted to destroy Islam.the Ahlul-Bayt stood firm to protect the deen and they paid the price with their blood and sacrificed their lives in the way of Allah.do you want us to take the abuse and killings of the Ahlul-Bayt as a simple or minor incidents like any other?or do you want us to compare their ordeal to the warrior on the battle-field?the Ahlul-Bayt were victims of tyranny and despots and oppression.let us be real,open our sleeping hearts and wake up!!!

Brother now that you have said all these which exists in almost all sunni tareekh books i have read, what is your objective? To pick fight against sunnis with the belief they killed imam Hussein? To go dig out Muawiya in his grave to fight him? Just tell me the objective please because if it is to enlighten ourselves, we already do this.

I am doing my best not to be dragged to these issues because it goes against my principles. Muslims are dying everyday, our economic situation is not the best, islamic republic of Iran is facing problems, we are suffering. Of what use is for us to dwell in the past while other folks are moving foward. We read hiostory to learn and correct mistakes not to dwell in history and live in the past.

At a time when progressive sunnis and shia are trying to come together like the palestinians and iranian relationship, hamas and hezbollah, Qatar and iran in order to face a common enemy. What common sense is there in debating issues here on NL that only stirs enemy and hatred with no understanding. The only reason i have been patient and trying to get you to reason with me , while not debating all the issues being discussed is not due to lack of knowledge or ignorance on my part but looking at issues on a broader scale and not through the pin hole of historical killings.

The ball is in your court brother, if you want to carry on you have your free choice and if you choose to reason with me, again it is your free choice. I have done what i am suppossed to do as a muslim , which is advice.

Again i wish you Gods blessings

tbaba1234:
Salam

I personally do not subscribe to the shia ideology, I follow the Quran and the sunnah to the best of my ability. However, I do not not see how arguing over these differences that have existed over thousands of years is of any benefit. We have to be careful about what we say about the shahaba, they were the closest to the prophet. Allah (SWT) clearly states in the Quran that we should not defame others. We must understand that the shahaba sacrificed a lot for islam and are a major reason we are muslims today.

I do not agree with the shia, but i do not condemn them. May Allah guide us to the truth and help us worship him in the best of ways.

Allah knows best

Salam.

This is my call, this is my stance, this my belief and this is my position.

I studied the shia doctrine in depth to enhance my knowledge but i dont argue, if i have to discuss it has to be in a situation i know will benefit. Discussing here only increases enmity and discord.

uplawal:
@Lagosboy,cry for yourself for following some evil SAHABAS over what Allah made permissible,and followed by the prophet

uplawal:
@Lagosboy,i dnt say i said Umar made Haram Halal,its you Lagosboy that says so,not me Uplawal,i only said Umar changed the morning Adhan and made Muta thats HALAL HARAM,and i dnt say all Sahabas did the same thing,but you just lied on me now.

My dear sister why should i lie against you ? The boldened is what i am referring to, anyone that legislates haram halal and vice versa is comminting an act of kufr.

Anyway if you are going to react this way then i better rest my case. I wish you Allahs blessings , guidance and mercies. May Allah make you recognise the truth as truth and falshood as falsehood, may He increase you in knowledge and understanding, forgive you your sins and mine as well, ultimately guide you to jannah.

I Rest my case

LagosShia:
Brother,i was considering your previously post and invitation to dialogue with me privately and that is why i have not yet replied.but when i read the above,it really discouraged me.how can you cover up for the killing of the Prophet's family? you are still playing with the truth and hiding the facts of history.while Umar,Usthman,and Hamzah (as),were killed by non-muslim kuffar,the Prophet's family including Ali,Hassan and Hussein were killed by those who claimed to be muslims after the Prophet's demise.it is those hyporcrites among the sahaba you cherish and try to cover for that killed the Prophet's family.they testified that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah with their mouths and used their hands to butcher his family.a family which the Quran orders us we must love.

and for your information Hamzah (may the peace of Allah be upon him) was killed by (order of) the mother of Muawiya and grandmother of Yazeed,who is responsible for Imam Hussain's beheading.she literally ate the kidney of Hamzah raw in vengence and tribalism and jahiliyya.it was again her grandson who killed Imam Hussain and her son who murdered both Imam Ali and Imam Hassan.these are the banu umayya for you.the father of muawiya,abu sufyan was the staunchest enemy of islam and the Prophet from the begininng of da'wah in Mecca.he accepted islam out of shame because he was defeated and belittled.these are the same hypocrites you people pronounce love for and defend.

as for the case of abdullah ibn zubair,he was killed by the same banu umayya after he rose up against their rule after the beaheading of Imam Hussain (as).

so when you are trying to make it look "all is well" and try to group those who were killed,it is only fair and just for you to know who killed them and when they were killed.it is a fact in history that the ummah of Muhammad killed the family of Muhammad.ofcourse those are the hypocrites in the ummah.but the question is why should we defend them as sunnis like doing?would you protect their pride and anger the Prophet?didnt they kill his righteous family members?

My dear brother how would i try to cover up the killing of my Prophets PBUH grandson, you read in my post when i said we dont even consider Yazeed as a muslim, i was acknowledging the killing of Abdullah ibn Zubeir. What i was trying to say was that apart from Imam Hussein there were other killings as well and yes by bani Ummayah led by Yazeed. For you to understand some of my mindset, I believe Muwaiya was wrong to have given the caliph to Yazeed which was going against the agreement he had. Yazeed as was reported was not even a muslim/serious muslim

Try to re read my posts and understand it. No sunni would tell you he loves those who killed hussein never ever!! The fact of not discussing does not translate to covering up as the whole texts of islamic history is full of these incidents. So the question of covering up does not arise at all brother. To whose gain is covering up and for what benefit brother. Please lets open our minds and drop suspicions of one another, i would look foward to further discussion with you privately.

I wish you Allahs blessings

Brother i still call you to let us dialogue privately with all humility.

May the Almighty have mercy on his soul, forgive him his sins, illuminate and expand his grave, grant him enjoyment in the Barzakh, free him from the adhab al qabr.

uplawal:
@Isale gan &Sweetnecta,whats THANK YOU,are you now saying what Allah made permissible should not be encouraged and its only useful for some period of time and not for all ages?pls save us all these unnecessary trying to debase topic,what is halal should not be discouraged at all or shy about,whatever Allah made halal should be halal forever,ok,and Umar dos not have any right to make haram what Allah made Halal for his slaves,Hes an innovator period,TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT

uplawal:
Infact am begining to get tired of the sunnis that claimed they are following the prophet where as they are following the innovations from the sahabas,its a shame to prefare what umar and others did over Allah and the messengers acts and deeds,they are not worthy to be called sunni but(UMAREES)OR best still,(SAHABIST)

UPlawal

You are drifting away , be patient sister as you obviously dont understand what you have just said "calling Caliph Umar RA an innovator" .

You need to learn what Bidáh actually means and its understanding. There is no verse in the quran expressly permitting mutah as far as i know. Mutah was permitted by the prophet and was also reported to have been banned. If some shias wish to still do it albeit with conditions then that is their business but what i am against is for you to accuse the caliphs of making haram halal and hallal haram. The consequence of what you have said is that Umar and these sahabas are kafirs (Naudhubillah). That is the meaning of your posts if you dont know.

You need to understand sunni philosophy before you start to embrace the shia philosophy. Even if you want to become shia you should not start by insulting companions of the Prophet PBUH without basis except what you have read here on NL.

And God knows best

uplawal:
History cannever be fogoten or set aside as trival issues,if not attended to will ofcourse repeat itself,thats why there are different boards for various thread,so you choose whichever one you feel youre comfortable,but as for those silly act those sahabas did after the Prophet was no more cannever be erased,

infact,am begining to feel unhappy about the whole situation,how can people who claim to love the Prophet change the Adhan,kill Ali and the Prophets grandson Hussein,and deprived Fatima her inheritance right that Allah has permitted her.

Sister please calm down and thread softly, issues of faith are not taken the way you are doing. We all love you here on NL and i remember one of your first posts during your transition to islam, alihamdulilah you are now a muslim to God be the glory. Knowledge is power and light which caan only be acquired through patience, hardwork, humility and openness of mind.

Calling the act of the sahabas silly here because of what you read here is very disturbing to me. You talked of killing Ali KW while forgeting Umar, Uthman RA were also killed. Hamzah was killed Hussein was and Hassan was killed as well. Abdullah ibn Zubeir was not only killed but hung on crucifx over the kaábah.

I dont want to be dragged into these issues and my silence on this thread is not due to ignorance of history neither is it due to lack of knowledge but may Allah grant us all the wisdom to discuss faith issues.

I never said history is trivial please re read my posts and i am student of tareekh al islam. History could be discussed and analysed but what we forget is that the main difference between shias and sunni is the interpretion of history which never happened before our eyes. I challenege anyone to prove me otherwise.

Sister there are loads of things you need to learn about islaam before you begin to insult the acts of sahabas. I love shias and i consider the positions of shias on many issues as reaction to the persecution they suffered. With love and focusing on what we agree upon our differences will fizzle out as long as we are both sincere to Allah.

I again plead with you to drop me a mail as i am really disturbed about your positions on many issues ranging from hadith to other things. I would like to understand your position before i could pass my opinion on your positions.

May Allah bless us all

And God knows best

As we all learn about islam we should try to avoid lots of pitfalls surrounding the knowledge of islam. We should always ask what we do not know and try not to be too opinionated about issues of faith, on the contrary we should always be eager to learn. I have come to conclude that where someones knowledge ends on a particular issue is exactly where another persons understanding begins. Humility in knowledge seeking is very important and only a humble student will acquire real knowledge.

There is a difference between knowledge and understanding and when both of them is present in someone we call it wisdom. That is why it was reported the Prophet PBUH said "whomever Allah wishes to grant good he grants him understanding of the deen".

This golden verse of Allah summarises my point
" He grants wisdom to whom he pleases, and whomever is granted wisdom, he indeed is given a great good and non would remember (be granted) except men of understanding" Q2 v 269

When we pray we should ask Allah for knowledge , understanding and ultimately wisdom.

And God knows best

LagosShia:
There is no discord in discussion as far as it is done peacefully and with the intention of drawing close.and with thanks to Allah at least two people on this forum are beginning to reason with the shia teachings and be understanding.it is people like “sweetnecta” and “abu zola” with their insufficient knowledge that want to sow discord.after we’ve understood the concept of muta and how it existed and can exist under special circumstances,”sweetnecta” started to do copy/paste job.if I start to analyse what she has posted shred by shred,I know he cannot defend what he posted.therefore I can only help others to help themselves by visiting the answering-ansar.org site to know the truth about shia beliefs and practices including a guide on muta and a refutation of people who are ashamed of their beliefs and deny muta as the sunnis do and throw baseless accusations against us.if the Prophet allowed it,then no one has the right to ban it.we only have to understand how it can work and under what conditions and in what situation.

Discussing on what we agree on is like clapping for onself.i discuss what we believe when the need arise.you can see my posts and threads.i have had a thread on Tawhid and another on Duas.

The issue of discussing the past has alot to do with the present.see for example issues like muta and even wudu that we differ from each other because of the split and the destructive role those sahaba played.dont forget the beheading of our Prophet’s grandson.we can never forget that.just turning a blind eye either is of no use and help.if you think that we need not to discuss the past which still affects us,and we should not,you want to simply make our discussions seem trivial and useless.that is not true.those who don’t learn from the past will repeat the mistakes of the past in their future.until we accept the role those sahaba played and we identify where they were wrong to fix our problems,we cannot move forward.let us read and understand.let us stop copy/paste work that we cant defend.let us solve our problems in a civil and respectable manner.why should we be shy from the reality and the truth?we got all it takes to pride ourselves as the complete and perfect religion.the truth is there.we need to grab it.islam can only be complete and succeed when we return to where Allah wanted us to be:that is,following the leadership of the Ahlul-Bayt,starting with Imam Ali as our first guide after the Prophet.

May Allah guide us all and give us the humility to see the truth and the courage to admit and accept it with honesty!

Brother i am not aginst discussion , i have it all the time. I have lots of shia friends here in the UK. My sheikhs engage with shia scholars in discussions. One of my sheikh has an 18 volume book analysing the history of islam between fath makkah till Caliph Umar ibn Abdul Azeez which entails detail analysis of the various historical events we talk about. From Yazid whom we ackknowledge was not a muslim/could not have been to various issues. I did study these issues but my point is not trivialise history or relagte these events to the background.

My point is of priortization of issues and knowing where to to discuss these issues. These difference, arguements and counter arguements have been existing for 1300 years and Lagosshia would not be the first or the last to explain. Nairaland IMO is not the best place for shia - sunni discourse. Our goal is to develop ourselves as muslim and bring non muslims to islam. Debating the faults of sahabas would only confuse folks rather than help them understand islaam. We active muslims on this section of NL are very few brother, let us put things into proper perspective.

There is no way discord would not surface when we discuss some issues and recent postings have shown that. No sunni will be happy when Aisha RA is been insulted or her father Abu bakr RA likewise you as a shia would never be happy if some calls you a kafir for being a shia. I am more of a centrist when it comes to matters of faith. In islamic fiqh sunni and shia are more of less the same and by the way i like the jafari madhhab a lot. The 5 rulies of classification you hughlighted are same in the sunni madhahibs except the hanafi who has 7 and brother anything that is not in the first level of classification - Wajeeb i do not like to argue, debate or discuss it if it would lead discord or confusion especially here on NL except when absolute neccessary. This is my message to you the shahadatain and the pillars of islam is wajeeb on both of us which is the reason i called you to let us discuss.

Let us discuss issues of spirituality which i know is soo wide in shia doctrine like it is in sunni, these issues will directly benefit us a great deal. Pls i would appreciate if you could drop an email and we could discuss further outside NL

And God knows best

hymen:
Interesting how nobody really understands what Allah wants

That is not true. there are loads of people and scholars who understand. The fact the some people have chosen to keep silent on this shia/sunni thread is not that they are ignorant. Me personally i have studied the shia doctrine and i am sunni, i understand that debating this doctrine here would serve no purpose and has no objective rather than disunity, sowing of discord and more misunderstanding.

I have called lagoshia twice to let us discuss on what we both agree upon but he has never replied or commented to my two postings to him. Analyse the 2 threads on this issue and tell me as a neutral if there is any progress than chaos. We cannot solve the differences that have existed for 1300 years here on NL. Only if we both leave to rest the chaotic (fitna) historical events that never happened before our eyes and concentrate more on our salvation as stated by Allah - Shahdah then the five pillars of islam,then we would move foward. This doctrine, we sunni and shia both share. Of what use is it for us to discuss the shortcommings of some companions while we forget our own selves? These people are long dead and they will be judged by the most High himself.

Of what use is analysing who the favorite wife of the prophet PBUH was? And so many other issues.

Hymen we understand what Allah wants and he expressed it in the quran and it is

", We have created Jinn and men for nothing except to worship me "Q51 v 56

To worship Allah we need to knowo some things which is knowledge. The 5 pillars of islaam is the foundation upon which eeman is built. This is my humble call!!



And God knows best.

uplawal:
@Lagosboy,Asalamu Aleikum,pls be mindful of your writing,you said a man should be responsible for a woman nail polish,i believe nail polish is not allowed in Islam,because it prevent water from getting into the nails.

Aunty uplawal i pleaded with you to drop me a mail and you never did why nah? I just wanted to discuss some of your islamic positions with you so i could learn more and we could benefit ourselves.

To the issue at hand, nail polish in itself is not haram but applying it on would definately prevent water from touching required places. If a woman can withstand the hassle of removing it before wudhu then there is no problem. If she applies it when she is off salat then also there is no problem.

And God knows best.

Jarus:
Lagosboy, you are the new Alhaji Olabowale of Nairaland.
Jazakumullahu khaeran.

Wah yakum bro but seriously Egbon Olabs remains this section all time legend. He was here when no one was, he stood firm amidst all the hate messages and contributed immensly to the section. We actually miss him and would love to have him back !!

ifyalways:
.
I agree with your posts.I love fun and traditional dances n festivities too much . . .Insha Allah,i wud start doing the right thing.

Even me i like traditional dance lols I used to do cultural dance when i was in high school.

Seriously speaking you could do those dance in the confines of your home and specially for AR. Dancing for the thanking of the gods is not just haram but it is kufr and Q4 v 140 talks about that exactly.

hymen:
Of course I don't believe it now. It just shows how what one person calls idolatory may not necessarily be so to another

The way Alhaji has been focusing on 'somethings' recently beats me o

Hey Hymen don’t quote me out of context o . . . . our deen islaam is a practical faith and not an ultra idealistic superficial and impractical way of life. Our prophet PBUH taught us almost all things within his reality of then. He wasn’t shy to explain bedroom ethics to matured men and women. These are practical family stuff Lady Hymen and it is not Lagosboy focusing on this stuff o .  

Don’t worry when you pronounce the shahadah soon inshallah you would learn more  

ifyalways:
Could it be the effects of your username? LOL

Even you sef dey on my case kai these ladies don gang up against me o Who shall come to my rescue o

Oya Hymen change your username to sumthin else

Jarus:
You can ACN anything but not Cowards.

ACN needs Bisi Akande's continuity at this time. The guy get mouth, and together with Joe Igbokwe & lai Mohammed, they have performed creditably well in the war of mouth against PDP.

Very true Jarus, LAi mohammed and Joe igbokwe have been very vocal and always in the media engaging the PDP policies and actions. There is no other opposition in Nigeria as ANPP is virtually non existent in terms of engaging the PDP.

The problem i forsee with ACN is the actual benefactor himself in the person of the Bourdillon god father. Everyone has his time and and if he doesnt cut his excesses all the governors might fall out with him like what is happeneing with Fashola.

hymen:
Not really,I have come to accept the fact that we all try to interpret scripture as best we can. It goes without saying that we weren't there when this things were put together.
I agree with uplawal completely. We must avoid all forms of idolatory.

I recall many years ago in Sunday school we were told not to take meat from muslims during Eid as they were actually sacrificing the rams to idols & that muslims bow down towards the ka'abba everyday actually to an idol in the building in Mecca. . . I wonder ,I just wonder

Knowing what you know about islam now Do you still believe what you were taught in Sunday school was true or do you have a contrary opinion now?

Regarding interpretation of the quran , Hymen it is not a question of anyone trying to interpret the verses as best as we can it is more of what the verses mean in the context of the Arabic language, how the prophet PBUH and the companions understood the verses. From all said above regarding how women were treated in the time of the Prophet PBUH and his numerous advice to protecting womens right do you still hold the opinion of islam having low regard to women.

The Prophet PBUH was reported to have said in a hadith advising men that during sexual intercourse and after they climax they should not just get up after having satisfied themselves but they should consider their wives and satisfy her as well. Now Hymen, analyse it yourself and put it into perspective as from worship to our daily affairs, to sex , there have been numerous guidline on how we should treat our women so as not to oppress them.

hymen:
Eh. . .make I con dey under seclusion(purdah) lailai !

lols no worry u go dey under maximum inclusion . . . . but really Women are not meant to be under seclusion in islaam. Women are meant to be active players in the society ranging from the home duties to the mother duties, to teaching, to medical services, to social work, to governance, to military etc
What you call purdah and what I call niqaab is not mandatory in islaam and should never be forced on anyone. If someone wants to do it fine and if she doesn’t want to do it fine.

hymen:
Alfa, I beg leave my hymen alone o . . . .

I don't want to become wife number 4

, More like wife No 1

Did the explanation address your concerns and issues ? Did you understand it an dhave you got more questions ?

ifyalways:
Sallams.
Would it be strongly not recommended or haram if a Muslima joins/participates (solely for fun) in traditional practices like new Yam festivals,masquerades etc ?
What other aspects of are culture do u think a Muslima shld not partake in and why?

Salaams Habeebah, regarding your query Wallah it is a very important question that many muslims who were born into islam and are old fall victim of. Traditional festivals associated with kufr e.g deities, idols etc are not to be celeberated in islam. Examples I would give as eyo festival of lagos, Osun oshogo festival of Osun, agemo masquerade of ijebu, oro festival and all other masquardes festivities.

These festivals all have their origin to idol worship and there are many traditional idolatory rites practiced before the festival. Eyo festival some people might say its more of fun and cultural but the bottom line is it is associated with kufr and idolatory. The new yam festival in ibo land honestly I don tknow what it entails perhaps if you shed more light on the festival then I might be able to explain further. I don’t like being hasty in passing judgements or opinion as in islam you have to understand the circumstances and specifics before you pass an opinion,

The evidences for my opinion is in Q4 v 140
“He has indeed sent to you the book that when you hear Allahs verses been disbelieved in and mocked at, do not sit with them until they turn to other discussions. Surely (if you don’t) you would be like them. Surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and disbelievers in hell.” Now the issue is looking at them and going to watch them is tantamount to hypocrisy and that is why the verse specifically continues with “ will gather together the hypocrites (muslims who knowingly engages in these traditions) and disbelievers (the masquerades themselves) in hell”

The quran also mentions something similar in Q6 v68

Allah says “ Enter in to islam completely and do not follow the footsteps of Shaiytan” Q2 v208

Finally the hadith quoted by brother Azhardeen “One who imitates a people is one of them”


There are many other cultural practsises a muslim/muslima should not engage in but you have to mention them before we could analyse it. I dont like to genrealise.

Islam respects culture in as much as the culture does not violate any islamic prinicple.

Please let me know if you understand or i could expantiate

And God knows best

Finally Hymen

Islam put women utmost in many things.

The Quran says men are the protectors of women not men are superior to women and there is no where islam says so. A woman doesnt have to work in islam , she has a right not to work if she is married It is her husbands duty to provide for her from the bow on her hair to the nail polish on her toes.

In the modern society and the promoters of womens right fight for equality in everything and wants the wman and man to share the bills 50-50 but this is putting lots of pressure on the home. I live in the west and believe me the divorce rate is damn high here and the society is falling apart as kids of the next generation are something else. There is no mother home to give them good training and the training they have is at the mercy of the state,

This trend is happening even in Nigeria and Africa at large albeit the economic situation of these countries does not help matters.

In islam a woman has the right to have a maid if she wants to and especially if she had one in her fathers house. A woman has a right to keep her fathers name if she wants to and does not have to change her name to her husbands.

A man and a woman are equal before Allah and their difference is based on their taqwa (God consciousness). That is why the quran says in every verse relating or qualifying the degrees of men.

We are all equal before Allah ta'ala and what differentiates us is our taqwa!!! In many verses of the quran Allah elevates men he also elevated women Surah 33 v35 Inna li muslimina wa muslimat,wal muminina wa muminat, wa qanitini wa qanitat … . . . ( The Muslim men and women, the believers men and women, the obedient men and women, the truthful men and women, the patient men and women, the humble men and women . . . . ) This is just to emphasise that men are not superior to women in any form before Allah and spiritually as well.


Having said this , one must realise that in every aspect or organistion on earth a leader is always required. The home as well requires a leader and (note I haven’t said a boss) man is the natural leader of the home in every single culture. In Britain of the 40’s 50’s women never use to really work and they will make tea for their husbands look after the children and so on. Hoever men should never exploit this position and fear God in the dealings as the quran has stressed.

Women played a significant role in the time of the prophet PBUH , they will treat the injured during battles , feed the army, some even fought side by side the prophet and a woman of repute may Allah be pleased with her stood her ground at the battle of Uhud when men ran away she stood by the prophet and defended him. Nasiba was her name the princess of strength and heart of a rock. Women are our mothers , sisters . Educate a woman you educate a nation. The prophet said whoever brings up his daughter in a pious way till maturity will be next to me in jannah. Such is the importance of our beloved sisters in the ummah. May Allah bless them all!!!

hymen:
Hi LagosBoy,
Thank you for taking time to explain things all through this thread . ,  you are indeed one in a million.

As per Islam & women,can you explain the following verses to me . .  .please. I really want you to explain it. . . no ulterior motives.

Finally  - Quran 2:282

Q2:282 explanatiom
The only place in the quran where the 2 women witnesses are required instead of one is during a loan contract. In other spheres of life the quran did not say 2 women instead of men and according to the hanafi and hambali school as far as I know one woman witnesss is sufficient for other things.

The wisdom of 2 women during a loan contract is to protect the owner of the wealth and to protect the debtor from oppression. A man could use his wife as a witness and if it is just one woman then the other party could be disadvantaged. Two women gives the opportunity to for both parties to use both of their wives and a third party male. Debt is not something you want the whole world to know you are taking and keeping the transaction private is wonderful. Also if it is women taking out the debt then their husbands could serve as witnesses which would be two.

The verse 2 v 282 is the longest verse in the quran and highlights islam as a complete way of life. The verse deals with contracts in financial transactions to prevent disputes. This was the civilization of islam 1429 years ago. Nowadays it is mainly contract dealings relating to coropate bodies that are prevalent but islam also recommends it in our private dealings to prevent disputes.

It should also be noted that the quran asks the debtor to dictate the terms and not the owner of the wealth because the debtor is the one in need and the loan obviously is without interest of which the main purpose is to ease the debtors burden and not to overburden him like the professional loan sharks all over the world.
Hymen this is the beauty of islam and when you become a muslimah inshallah you would find so many of this high level civilized suff that you would begin to see islam as a complete system filled with guidance from when you wake up in the morning till you go to sleep at night.

And God knows best

Hello our dear Hymen your silence on this thread even if it was for few days was really missed at least by me in particular

Now lets drive straight to the issue at hand inshallah

I would start by the flogging issue Q24 v 4
" And those who accuse chaste pious women (e.g of fornication or adultery) and do not produce the mandatory four witnesses, flog them eighty stripes and do not admit any evidence from them ever , "

Hymen i know you misread the verse or probably you read it in a haste as the verse is exactly opposite what yoou thought. The verse is to protect a womans honour and pride for example someone acusses Hymen who has her "hymen" intact of committing fornication and slanders her in public without evidence then this person should be flogged be it a woman or man. Hymen the verse is set out to protect a woman and in this case you would be protected.

Q4 v 3
Hymen lets us look firstly at history and cultures round the world. Almost all cultures have polygamy in their history from western world to asia to africa. Marriage of a woman to more than one man hardly exists in any culture. Firstly how would the paternity of a child be determined. Men have always been the leader in a home in every culture and leader does not mean boss or ruler . In every structure of life there is a leader and in the home a man is the leader so how would it work with 4 men and a woman in the home.

Polygamy predates the revelation of the quran and the quran put a cap unto it from limitless to four and set out guidlines on how to practise it.

I am in a bit of a rush to attend a meeting i would inshallah carry on replying after my meeting.

@IFY
i would inshallah answer the festival query as well as i havent forgotten.

Hymen how cum u never replied to our discussion on the curious thread. I am still patiently expecting you !!

Regarding Benezarr there are rumours of her being one of the branches of shia but not twelvers . God knows best! but that aside neither her nor her father was killed cos of their sect. there are many intruges in Pakistani politics my dear , it is very simplistic to narrow the cause of her death to being shia.

That aside, persoanlly i dont like the Bhutto family , as you need to understand the feudelist system being practised in Pakistan to appreciate millions of people will forever wallow in poverty in that country till the end of time if there is no radical change. What has the Bhutto family done for the people of Sindh province where the illitracy is more than 60%. When i say illiteracy ii mean people who cant read jack, who cant even read the quran, who cant read urdu and Bhutto family are landlords of this area courtesy of the British in the 18th century who dashed their senior father lands for supporting them.

I would contribute inshallah when i am less busy in couple of hours

ifyalways:
I dont know but i kind of feel free and more comfortable reciting In English,Is this strange or normal for new converts and wud fade away with time?
My husband in order to help me has taken pains translating in both languages,tried hard morn,noon and nite to teach me but i still see myself preferring English.Is this abnormal

Ify it is not strange at all and it is completely normal. Every person feels comfortable saying things in their natural language and this case it is english.

The process takes time and in fact arabic is a specaised beautiful language which takes a procedure, dedication and enducation to learn. Your first call is to learn the letters , then the prnounciation, then the pronouncing of words then recitation. You need a teacher to teach you this togetherwth electronic resources you shall get there inshallah. The prophetPBUH was reported to have said that there is double reward for a person strugglingto recite the quran. The first is for reciting and the second isa reward for the hardship incurred while learning to recite it. Ify it is a win win situation.

You jst have to relax and e patient and persevere , with time it shall all be smooth inshallah

I would be looking foward to my hajj goodies

ifyalways:
I wud get there soonest cos "Radeetu billahi Rabban,wa bil Islami denenan,wa bi Muhammadin(PBUH) Nabiyyan"
I have lots of books now,videos,digital Koran et all all courtesy of the Hajj.Expect urs when AR gets back. Thank u.Jazaakallahum Khairan.

I came close to shedding tears at the bolded    . memories of reciting it in arabic in a sonorous voice is awesome and seeing you typing it was very emotional for me. I remembered the the first day November 30, 2009 when you asked "What is islam" and then your next question was "who is muhammad an what does he represent". Precisly about a year later, on the same thread you type these beautiful words and phrase. To God be the glory !!

For those who dont understand the meaning it means "I am pleased and satisfied with Allah as my Lord, sustainer, master, nourisher  . . I am pleased and satisfied with islam as my way of life and Muhammad PBUH as my Prophet and messenger"

Habeebah may Allah be pleased with you as well and may he be pleased at every action of yours.

hymen:
Dear brother ,I appreciate your kind words and sincerity as well.

I do love muslims & certain aspects of Islam - which by & large confirm my christian beliefs esp with respect to chastity ,decency etc.

However its difficult for me to become a muslima in light of  the low regard Islam ascribes to women.

Interesting and truthful, I am impressed at your honesty and i quite appreciate your love for some Islamic ethics.

We are getting close and nearer to understanding if one of your main difficulty of being a muslimah is your hatred for some position of low regards to women. Hymen ( by the way I love this name) a symbol and pride of a woman's chastity.

To the issue at hand, I feel honoured to let you know that in fact Islam holds women in maximum regards and the message of Islam is is to emancipate women and liberate women from the shackles of cultural prejudices towards them. However it is a shame that many Muslim communities worldwide have still not fully imbibed the recommended Islamic women practises but on the contrary they have painted their cultural practices with an Islamic tag. Hymen , I regret to say that one of the main culprit is the country that happen to house the two holy mosques in Islam - Saudi Arabia.

In order to substantiate our discussion please do me a great favour by listing the practices or beliefs on which you based the opinion of islams low regard towards women. I can then inshallah try to shed more light on the issues as I know for sure women are the bedrock of our society. The prophet PBUH was reported to have said that if you educate a man you educate one person but if you educate a woman you educate a whole nation. The prophet told us to love our mothers 3 times over before our dad. The prophet loved his wives so much he helped them with house chores and stuff. The prophet was defended by a woman against enemies when all other men ran away which shows his understanding of a equality before God. He gave women opportunities same as men and he always encouraged them to do good and be modest.

Hymen I would wait for your list and inshallah with the help of God we would arrive at the truth and have the same understanding. Be rest assured though that you being a muslimah is a real door to liberation in it's essence and spiritual meaning.

And God knows best

ifyalways:
Not nice,not nice at all.This thread is open to everyone.LOL.
Dear,u can choose to believe whatever makes u sleep fine at night.
Lie to faceless people,as in what do i stand to gain/lose?oh Pleaseeeee.My husband was faster than me,he still is.
I was a pastors daughter so it was really very difficult for me. . .stilll is difficult for me,accepting certain things.
i don't even know why im saying this.
@J.,Salams .Amin.

Salaams Ify

I understand what you mean when you say its still difficult acceptin some things. Everything in life is gradual and some thinks take time. Inshallah the good Lord would make the practice of islaam easy for you like he did for the companions of the the prophet PBUH. You have done well indeed and the love of God for you is enormous so keep up the good work. Hope you have finished that book now?

You have to pass me some goodies of Hajj o and leave some isiewu chop for lagosboy as well o

hymen:
Alhamdulilah ! However, I'm beginning to Ify's 'testimony' !

Why the doubt? The testimony is simple in that she got her husband curious about Islam, her husband accepted Islam before her and it took her about 9 months for her to to willingly submit to her Lords command.

As long as a person shows sincerity for a cause , the almighty rewards the person with guidance and illuminate the heart. If you go back to the very first page on this thread and read my first post and reply to Habeebah ( Ify) you would see I said I sensed sincerity in her quest. One year later she is a Muslim and her husband as well to God be the glory. It is not my doing neither is it my answers per se but the sincerity in her heart which resulted in Allah guiding her And arresting her heart with his light.

I call you Hymen as well to the religion of bliss, I call you with humility and utmost respect to your beliefs to have a change of heart and open your heart to the light of Islam perhaps you might fall in love with the prophet of Islam and complete the love you have for all the prophets which I know you as you and I both love Jesus PBUH.

In Islam you will find increase peace in the heart with your lord, you would find a real connection with your lord , you would find real fulfilment in the heart. Finally you would have a real sense of purpose in life different from the natural acquisition of material wealth. Hymen you would in short find True success Inshallah.

May the illuminator of hearts guide you and shower his best mercies on you which is guidance. I wish you peace!

The prayer being talked about here is prayer for the dead. Is the prayer for a dead mushrik permitted in Islam ? The answer is no as your prayer cannot do anything for the dead mushrik. Allah commanded the prophet PBUH not to pray for the dead mushrik.

However prayers can be made for a living mushrik and that prayer is prayer of guidance which is the best prayer one can make for anyone on earth as there is no substitute for misguidance. Guidance leads to a life of bliss and an eternity of blissful bliss in abundance. Misguidance leads to eternal ruin and we see refuge from God from misguidance.

In Surah Fatiha we recite at least 5 times a day we say" guide us ON the right path" which means we hope we are on the right path already and begging Allah to keep us on this path. For the disbelievers we pray to Allah to bring them to guidance.

Also please let us be careful in saying someone would go to the hell fire. Yes Allah has described those who would go to hell
fire however we should never personify or personalise this as the keys to hell fire and jannah lies solely with Allah and he can decide to do whatever he wants with anyone.

And God knows best

I am so sorry and please accept my apologies with best of humility. I did not really mean to assume it was you in question but I guess my style of reply assumed that. Once again I am sorry and may Allah increase us all in knowledge and overlook our faults.

It is very good you ask that which you are in doubt of nd that is the best way of learning.

Oh gosh just seeing this thread.

Ibime:
This is nothing new. I was in Gambia last year, and you can't walk down the beach for 5 minutes without seeing 10 young Gambians with white Grandmums. That culture is engrained in Gambia. And BTW, most of the female pros in Gambia are Nigerians and Sierra Leonians.

Was in Gambia 2 weeks ago and it is very true what you stated. Young gambian rastas and terribly old British women holding hands and all sorts in senegambia , cotu and all around the beaches.

I heard of a 60 plus British woman worth £7 million and bought a £500k mansion with a pool for her gambian husband in his early 30s. She spends 6 months in Gambia and while she is away the gambian wife of her husband moves in to the house with her full knowledge as she accepted polygamy.

These women are lonely and have been rjected by the socitey here in the UK, they have a bit of cash and find young men who pamper them and some genuinly marry them not neccessarily to get a visa but to get a better life in the Gambia. Poverty has eaten deep into Africa