₦airaland Forum

cris83:
End times indeed!... Too badt!!... Moral decadence has finally caught up with children!!!

Nonsense. little children have been dancing naked during certain festivals for centuries yet world never end

It's actually an old video

see all these people claiming holiness

that girl got talent pls. ..Y'all should encourage her talent than condemn it

after all u seeing anything perverse about this must be perverts urself

oreos:
Are you sure you are not high on something? You really need reading glasses and comprehension classes.

Abobaku still exists in some parts of Yorubaland.

Then prove it still exists and stop making noise

chuna1985:
All Yoruba States n cities except parts of Lagos n capital of Ondo state are glorified villages.

which of ur towns are of richer history than any yoruba town..even small Ede
Jst compare

Which of ur capital is up to just Osogbo? Infact Osogbo is too much. ..just Ilesa. You folks still suffer lack of power supply and u make noise
U compare ur pathetic existence to Yorubas. .nonsense

alexvatt:
oro is barbaric and stop embarrassing the already embarrassed yorubas.

How is it babaric?

chuna1985:
S waste can only build a barbaric village looking kingdom. I've visited dem all.

Which of ur kingdoms could stand a relatively small kingdom like Idanre
If we are babaric villages it shouldn't be hard to mention

Bonapart:
macof judge me...... you no dey follow me but you dey follow my post like sign board. Point out the evil in the post


am not a JEHOVAH witness

You're to miserable for me to be following ur posts

It's you who follows threads like this just to insult and display ur hatred for cultur

tinkinjow:
OP please STFU people are being slaughtered daily in the ooni's palace. stop deceiving people.
Even many honest ife idigenes will confirm this

give us the names of those slaughtered and fone numbers of those whose families are being slaughtered and let the public be aware

funkybully:
10 days mourning is not 10 days curfew. What happens during d curfew period? Helpless citizens are killed and used for sacrifice.


This is barbaric culture that must give way to modernity my friend

Oh you moronic one. . Culture is for modernity

Do you have proof that people are sacrificed? Why do you like lying?

Bonapart:
Like seriously who give a damn.... they can bury his whole children alive along side with the dude

I almost give a damn anyway

Dear Jehova witness fellow. . Remember this when next u try to preach to me
Hypocrisy runs deep in ur system

Atlantian:
So the Yorubas were so barbaric right from the 17th century. No wonder they love palm oil and opening their mouths when they talk. They should kindly abolish this nonsense. It is too shameful.

chuna1985:
Barbaric tribe.

Yet this yoruba built kingdoms ur people couldn't even have iin their dreams

chigoizie7:
Pictures of the last abubaku before and after the burial or I don't believe it

Did you ask for the pictures and name of the abobaku that ran away before you believed that ridiculous allegation? Such double standards

funkybully:
Too late at face saving crap. We non yorubas don't even know what abobaku means, it is yoloba word and d meaning says it all.

What is d curfew for n why is the burial enshrewed in such secrecy that only few fellow ogboni chiefs witness it? What are they hiding?

Even the burial of a general demands certain rites. When the monarch of England dies certain rites are called, when the pope dies certain rites are called

Ooni to yorubas is after the Gods, so the burial rites oof the man standing as Ooni cannot be opened to every Tom Dck and Harry like you

BuddhaPalm:
My brother I am asking out of 100% ignorance.

Is that shid for real. What is your source?

Just watch how the mumu has no source for u

lyricalz:
Lie, I still do not trust and believe these yoruba pple, as far they still practice oro festival in this modern age which other babaric act can they ignore.

What is babaric about oro?

oreos:
WHat I meant by that is that it is not a mere religion for my family, it runs deeper than that

Abobaku tradition is still available in some parts of Yorubaland

Sue me

Abobaku is a religion Are you sure you are OK?

oreos:
I didn't make any allegation against Ife. Get your facts straight. I happen to know that Abobaku still exist in some parts.

Although I am not a practitioner, I come from a family of one and I am quite interested in some parts of it.

Who doesn't come from a family of one?

Oga pls don't say things like this when you can't defend it in public

Radoillo:
It was the same line.

This is how the traditions go:

Abutu Eje left from Jukun/Kwararafa. He never got to Idah, because he died and was buried at Amagedde. His two children, Ebulejonu (daughter) and Agenepoje (son) eventually reached Idah. Ebulejonu inherited the leadership and married the Igbo Achadu (whose personal name is given as Ahaga Okpuluwa). After Ebulejonu, leadership passes to his brother Agenepoje, the father of Idoko. Idoko then fathered Ayegba (Ayegba Om' Idoko) who established the dynasty as an independent (from Wukari) line of rulers.

ok. it makes sense.

thanks for the clarity

Folykaze I thought we had agreed on a compromise
Anyway. .. am very familiar with the Odu about Sango and like I told you Ifa speaks history and Spirituality even in the same Ese Ifa
It is left for you to understand and identity them
It's not easy really. ..this has even caused the famous "Oduduwa coming from the sky" controversy


I remember that thread and I stil agree with the message. .. The Imole are present in the natural world... their Ase are visible as things like Metal, rivers etc but restricting them to Scientific elements(which was the case) is not advisable. ..they go beyond what you can see, feel or capture in a cylinder

There's nothing wrong with calling Iron Ogun(Iron is filled with Ogun's Ase afterall...and to reach the spirit you go through its Ase in the physical) but not when you restrict Ogun to a mere physical element by saying Ogun is Iron... maybe I made a statement that it's wrong to call Iron Ogun bt that was just due to the tension of arguement and debate


I hope you understand what I'm saying now

Weah96:
Escape? From where, Guantanamo? You guys are going too deep with the animism and symbolism for me to coherently follow.

bros please you are free to ask any question u have

Radoillo:
Nobody can say with certainty, since Igala traditions did not specifically say 'Eri' or 'Umueri' but only said 'Igbo'. However, since the Umueri group are the only Igbo group with traditions of having moved and settled in Idah, and are the Igbo group with the strongest claims of kinship with the Igala, it is most likely that this Igbo Achadu came from that axis, i.e., the Umueri axis.

To elaborate further on what i said about there being no Igbo natives in today's Idah: When people have adopted the language and culture of the people they have settled among as their primary identity, it makes no sense to continue defining them by the identity their ancestors bore. The Achadu clan are today Igala in speech and culture, thus you can't keep calling them Igbo natives, same way you won't be making much sense if you say that Itsekiri land and Lagos Island has Bini natives today.

In any case, it appears that a later Ata broke the old Achadu line when he appointed one Omeppa from Ankpa as the Achadu. The implication is that the present Achadu line may not necessarily be the old (Igbo) one that Ebulejonu entered into a marriage alliance with. I just wanted to throw that in and avoid any confusion that might arise should Omeppa's name come up later.



Is it far-fetched? Don't think so. This extract is from 'Nigeria: an introduction to its history' by Michael Crowder and Guda Abdullah:

The present dynasty [of the Igala State]....was founded from Wukari, the Jukun capital. It was Ayegba Om Idoko, the ancestor of all subsequent Atas, who broke the tributary relationship with the Jukun and when the Jukun invaded Idah to reassert their authority it was he who defeated them. We know almost nothing about the dynasties which his [i.e., Ayagba's] Wukari dynasty replaced.


Many other historians including Obayemi, Sargent and Boston have gone into some more details, but this should suffice here.

Like I said, it isnt far-fetched. A branch of the Jukun royal family established a kingdom based in Idah, which was tributary to the main jukun royal family in the parent kingdom at Wukari. Later the Jukun branch at Idah sought to rule their own Kingdom independently and thus rebelled against the 'parent kingdom' --- like English-descended Americans rebelling against the King of England in the 18th century.

I might also add that in the 19th century the Aku people of the Nsukka area defeated an Igala army with the aid of an Igala man known as Diewa who had earlier settled in Aku and adopted the town as his home.

Was Ayegba a new foreigner or From the line of Attahs started by Ebulejonu?
Am asking this to understand the part in bold

Lemme add to the part in bold:

People seem to underestimate the power of ethnic assimilation.
Bigfrancis21 some lineages might have igbo origins doesn't make them igbo natives. ..they are Igala
Everywhere in the world you have people who migrated from different places but over time they develop their unique identity...how sure are you that ur lineage has always been of igboland? Or let's say your hometown
Try to understand that

Radoillo:
No, the Igbo line did not found a dynasty per se. The Igbo 'line' ( the Achadu line) only had headship of the clans in the Idah area in the pre-monarchy days of Idah.

I found it puzzling, too, that Ayegba could be ascribed an Apa origin since it was his line that ended Idah's subjection to the Jukun. But maybe he was a Jukun viceroy who rebelled against his master and established an independent kingdom for himself at Idah. I'll look for some published sources on this.


@bigFrancis: Looking for Igbo natives in Idah today would be like looking for Ibibio natives in Arochukwu, or Bini natives in Itsekiri, or Igala natives in Ossomala. There are none

And you believe Achadu line are of Igbo origin descended from Eri?

Hmm a Jukun man helping Igala against his people? Seems so unafrican considering this was the 15th century

Well Folykaze good luck. I have learnt how to not make assumptions regarding Isese
My advice for u is to do likewise... modern science is far behind Isese in the knowledge of the Energies surrounding the earth so there's no need to be fixated on using mordern scientific theories to validate Isese

Btw Arira is not lightening, Monamona is

And another thing, Imole are said to come from Orun where they dwell, they come do what they have to and go back. Metal doesn't do that but Ogun does

Radoillo:
Concerning the Bini connection, let me summarise oral traditions collected in Idah by JS Boston (this guy did very excellent work on the Igala) in 1960:

A king of Benin (Onu Ibini, as he is known in Igala traditons) quarrelled with his wife, and so when this wife delivered male child, she didn't present it to the Onu Ibini. Shortly after, one of her co-wives had a male child, too, and quickly took it to see the Onu. Because of this, the Onu recognised this second male child as the heir to his throne.

When the Onu finally died, the two brothers jostled for the crown. Tired of the fighting, the younger brother (who had been recognised by the late Onu as his heir, and who consequently had the royal insignia in his possession) led his followers away. Some of the followers dropped off on the way and settled in places like Asaba and Kurukuru (Ingele - I don't know if this is the same place as Inyelen). Eventually, the younger prince crossed the Niger and came to Idah, where the elders of the place invited him to settle with them and made him their Ata.

Boston also noted that at Idah, the heir-elect is given the title of Adokainya, which is terminologically cognate with the Bini title of Edaiken for the heir apparent.

One thing to bear in mind is that the Igala have had at least three dynasties:

the indigenous or Okpoto dynasty, which was later replaced by the Bini dynasty, which was in turn replaced by the current Ayagba line of Kings believed to be descended from the Apa or Jukun.


Concerning the Igbo connection:

Aguleri (Igbo) traditions claim that Eri's only son by his second wife travelled north and founded Idah. The reasons given for his departure from Aguleri was that after their father's death, his mother feared that his half-brothers would plot against him, hence his mother got him to move away and establish his own settlement.

Now, the Igala do not tell the same exact story, but from some of their traditions, it is possible to deduce that Igbo elements were an important ( perhaps even the most important) sector of Idah from very early times, before it became the political centre of an Igala Kingdom.

According to the Igala:

When Ebulejonu (Ebelejawne - the name has like a dozen variations) got to Idah, the various 'pre-Ebulejonu' clans there already recognized the Achadu's clan (which was of Igbo origin) as the pre-eminent clan. Ebulejonu herself married the Achadu (said to be an Igbo hunter) who then became her consort while she became ruler of Idah. The Igala say that this is why the Atta perforates his ears and wears earrings -- he is a 'woman' and 'wife of the Achadu'.

So, when you ignore exaggerations and oversimplifications associated with oral traditions, you find that Igala traditions and Igbo traditions corroborate each other on basic points, which is that Igbo elements got to Idah in very early times, before the rise of its monarchy, and that Igbo elements played some role in the rise of the Idah monarchy.

Are you saying the Bini and igbo factor saw rise to different dynasties before Ebulejonu?

Although I think you have valid points especially with Achadu being husband to Ebulejonu
If theres one thing I know ; it's that the Achadu is the second after the Attah and the primary kingmaker...and I have read that Ebulejonu's children didn't continue, her brother did and since Idoko (about 1440) no foreign person has become Attah, they've all descended from him starting with his son Ayegba(some would ascribe the role of Idoko to Ayegba and remove Idoko from the list of Kings. ..maybe they were one and the same person known as Ayegba Oma Idoko) He led the Igala to freedom from the jukun powers. So I'll say, by my knowledge, Ayegba/Idoko displaced the Kings of Jukun origin(not Bini) and most likely wasn't jukun himself

So it's very possible that the Achadu line or any earlier chief/king in a Igala was a son of Eri

Emusan:
And what will happen if I do?




As far as I know the understanding of two different people on ONE POINT/OBJECT varies.

How a Yoruba man understood Moon is different from how an English man does, yet there's only one Moon.

Because u mislead people . U christians might as well invent a word if you most speak yoruba rather than giving a different personality to Name that already has a personality

Radoillo:
Actually, the traditions of the Bini and the Igbo about the Igala do seem to have some corroborations in Igala traditions.

Ok Radoillo. Tell me about this corroborations

FOLYKAZE:
Have you seen me talking about greek Gods once? I know very little about them so I choose to stick to only that which I know.

I just added Ogun to my last post ke?

Mr, Yoruba understand nature and explain it to their own understanding. You know my position and that I will always stand on it. The deities IS the samething as the essence it represent.

I guess an answer to my questions will provide better understanding to you.

How is Ogun the onija ole different from the sword drives into the heart of robbers victim?

How is the Ogun bone moulder different from Calcium?

How the Ogun the blood sucker different from the sharp metalic object that cuts the skin?

Let me add Sanponna, how can you separate it from chicken pox?

This is the third time I will be asking this question without an answer coming from you.

So Mr Macof, the line is draw. Fall in sir.

You once spoke of Gaia. .trying to force her on someone earlier on this thread. . U also spoke of Ra

You just started with Ogun.

Wait! Let's take this step by step.
1st You should know that Spirituality is deep, nd even more with yoruba that make reference to historical characters as they speak of Spirits
Sometimes historical events make up the myths surrounding these Spirits such that produces a Deity. Take Sango who is the myth surrounding Arira (the spirit of lightning), or Osun surrounding Olomitutu(spirit of fresh water), or Obatala for Olu-iwaye , Oduduwa for Olofin Otete

2nd, lemme leave out Greeks now. ..
Elemental/Natural Spirits/Energy are Imole
Deity is Orisa.
But the logic behind the word "orisa" is different from that of "deity"...understandably due to their different cultural background.
Orisa refers to an entity (including humans, objects) that is considered special/unique/important. .hence you have "Ko si Orisa bi Iya" no deity like mothers, Great ancestors like Obatala, Ogun, Sango, Esu, Oduduwa, Orunmila are Orisa
These people are remembered for their contributions to life and celebrated during festivals. The mouth we use in eating is an Orisa. Opele that Awo use to divine is an Orisha. In today's world Phone is an orisa. The face/eyes is an Orisha. Money is Orisa
These things are all venerated ...hence A bo orisa
Veneration of Orisa

I've already explained the logic behind the word "deity" earlier. However the ancient Europeans treat a deity the same way Yoruba treat orisa..and that is with veneration




Imole are spirits, Energy. ..not exactly energy talked about in physics...that's "Ase" . . People misunderstand what "Spirit" really is.
Spirits/Imole are incorporeal entities that develop the Natural world, they are the actors behind Reality.
They are pure and free energy

3rd, All material objects have their Ase, this Ase is the integral part of the object. Metallic objects have their Ase...This Ase belongs to Ogun and all Ase in Iron is part of Ogun. Ogun constructed Iron but Iron is not Ogun.
when yoruba call Iron by the word "Irin" we are not mad.. we know exactly what we are doing. It's not madness or confusion that drove yoruba to call river "odo" yet the one who constructed the river is known by another name

Yoruba say that Olodumare(who is also an Imole) gave his Ase to other Imoles, it's the Ase that makes the Imole active(infact that makes them exist at all) .. its the Ase that the Imole like Ogun use to put the natural world(Iwarun) into shape
How then can you reach the Imole if not through their Ase in the material objects?

Ogun is not calcium, calcium is just one of the many important things Ogun gives to the world

Just like Sango is not lightning but the source of source of it

OfoIgbo:
Even though it is said that Igalas came from Idah, that is not strictly true. The their main ancestor actually came from Eriaka, which we now know as Aguleri.
Attah/Onoja nwa Oboli was the last son of Eri. His other brothers are Nri (the ancestor of Enugwu-ukwu, Nawfia, Enugwu-Agidi and Agukwu-Nri), Agulueri, Igbariam, e.t.c.

Onoja nwa Oboli left Eriaka and migrated to Idah, so Igalas are heavily related to Ndigbo.
Mgbe gboo Nri priests crowned the Attahs and they still use the four market days controlled by the Nris. They still attend Eze Nri's Igu-Aro.

Of course since 1966, we Igbos are very mindful of outsiders after the negative experiences we have been subjected to since that year, especially with abandoned properties saga and the cutting off of certain Igbo territories and attaching same to unfriendly states/regions

Is this what you say of the Igala or what the Igala say of themselves? Cus Bini also claims Igala came from them

However the Igala speak of Ebulejonu leading their people to Idah from Amagede

Emusan:
My own Eledumare has.

Then pls don't ever say this

...

the Great Yahweh in Hebrew, Eledumare in Yoruba

Because ur own Eledumare is not Eledumare in yoruba

Ur own Eledumare is jst another name for Jehova,

But Eledumare in yoruba is a different thing entirely

Emusan:
The Great Yahweh in Hebrew, Eledumare in Yoruba, Ugbangiji in Hausa as it is in every languages but just ONE CREATOR.

Then where do you pit the different personality of Yahweh with that of Eledumare


I hope you know that Eledumare has no "only son" called jesus

FOLYKAZE:
Can you pls tell us the historical reason why a particular river you know about is been worship and prayed to?

You should understand that I am not saying veneration. Everyone can venerate their natural environment without much importance derived from what they do. This is quite different from praying to or making sacrifice to something. Those who venerate appreciate nature while those who worship and pray do it for a favor.

Veneation is not necessary for a deity but worship and prayers to a river or tree indicates these entities are deity.

So tell us sir what makes them a deity.

Why Iroko is perceived as sacred while the bamboo is not?

While do people go into the thick forest to pray to Iroko and place sacrifice on it foot while Mahogany tree which is more important for construction is not revered.

Pls note the word importance.

Those that cut wood from the forest barely cut Iroko tree. They either reject the contract or make serious ritual before cutting and another when hauling out. People often reject it for roofing. Yet you will see big and small Ebo surrounding the tree unlike "meelaina" that is very impotant.

I am not joking here. . . .I really want to know the qaulity which makes Iroko a sacred tree whle Mahogany is not

I don't the name but there's one in India. ..now a dump but due to its history of being venerated people still keep with that tradition

Veneration doesn't necessarily have to be about deriving anything extra. ..its appreciation, respect, nurturing for what you ordinarily derive something from.
One's mother will first show her importance before you begin to venerate her not the other way round. .at least that's the normal thing

I am not talking about prayer here or sacrifice...this is a different issue that demands a different approach
You talk of what makes something God. ..not the importance of sacrifice which is a different thing

Oga saying veneration is not necessary for a deity is completely wrong. Deity is just another rendition for "deus"... it has no special meaning to what "God" is ... Deity/Deus/Theos all mean God and they all used to mean "Concept" or something close to "Theory" ....

Iroko in Yorubaland is a tree that is considered King of trees like Leopard is considered King of animals. ..the sacredness of a thing is determined by the importance perceived by the people around it. ..what you should do is to find out the importance of Iroko tree, what it stands for to west africans
I don't know the importance of Iroko but that's no reason to declare people just wake up to venerate any random thing...