₦airaland Forum

Bidam: Refer your question to your islamic section.On this section you must be born again before we can discuss spiritual issues.

doclan: yeah, every1 would ve become atheist... Bt do U tink our Lord Jesus wd confine a person to his aus all the rest of his life 4 asking him to express his view of the cosmos? The answer is obvious, get acquainted wt history and learn that most scientists had pure intentions bt the catholic cdnt cee dat. Do U knw why the catholic believed dat earth is the centre of d universe? Do U knw why copernicus did nt release his works until He died? Do U knw why Galileo pleaded wt the Roman Catholic to allow him experiment wt Copernicus' works? Xo many questions that needs answer... Do U knw why Michael Angelo, Leonardo Da Vinci and Santi Raphael operated in d areas of less volatility in science? CATHOLIC.... Orwellian

emma bowin: If not for d Catholic church, d earlier scientists would have made everyone become an atheist. D Catholic church must be commended for relegating science to d back seat then .science is only a subset of religion, man's understanding of God's creation. therefore, religion should dictate for science and not d opposite.

Mintayo: lool,just as satan,living a life of lies and double-standard.
You guys need Jesus.

striktlymi: I will do this in two halves...first will be the ish with Enoch and then Elijah...



I believe the relevant verse from Sacred scriptures regarding Enoch is:

Genesis 5:22-30
King James Version (KJV)
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

From the above we can see clearly that Enoch was taken by God after his sojourn here on Earth because he walked with God. In order words, he was faithful to God. This is exactly what happened to all those who walked with God before the coming of Jesus.

It is either one is faithful to God, irrespective of one's status in life, or one isn't. God claims or takes all those who do right by him while Satan claims or takes all those who die in God's displeasure. A good example of this would be the case of Moses:

Jude 1:9
King James Version (KJV)
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

After the life of Moses here on Earth there was a battle of ownership between Satan and the Archangel Michael over who has the right of claim to Moses.

The point here really, is that when God claims or takes an individual, it only means that the person left this world in God's favour and as such does not deserve to be damned, or taken by Satan. Hence, the verse about Enoch only depicts God's ownership of Enoch and his 'destiny' to be in Heaven. This does not mean that Enoch was taken into God's abode.



The relevant verse here is:

2 Kings 2
King James Version (KJV)
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Now, we need to understand that the term "Heaven" is used to denote different things in Sacred scriptures. Hence when we read some verses therein, it is important to note the context in which it is used.

Heaven can mean the region of the clouds that pass along the sky:

Genesis 1:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

In other passages it denotes the region of the stars that shine in the sky:

Genesis 1:15
King James Version (KJV)
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

...and of course what we know as a place where God resides in:

Matthew 5:3
King James Version (KJV)
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Thus when Elijah was said to have gone up to heaven, the author is not telling us that he was admitted into God's abode but that he literally ascended up into the clouds. This is similar to what happened on the day of Christ's ascension into the abode of his Father:

Acts 1:6-12
King James Version (KJV)
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel

As Jesus went up literally, his disciples continued staring up into heaven i.e they were still looking up at the sky, just like Elisha did when Elijah was taken up into the clouds.

50calibre: Go away with your inanimate gods, I'd urinate on your gods

Alfa Seltzer: You are right. Satan doesn't exist. We are just playing around. Don't let those pastors deceive you.
By the way, why are you still going to church? You know their talk is full of bullshit, yet you still go?

SeaSalt: No, I guess you have never seen or experienced the evil manifestations from the voodoo religion.
I think you're one of those oblivious to spiritual existence because you live in the West.

Go to places like Nigeria or Benin or Sierra Leone or even Haiti to see raw Satanic manifestations.

Sorry, Satan exists. But you can have victory over him through the Supreme God - Jesus Christ.

Don't play the ignorance game, it won't help you at all.

Alfa Seltzer: Maybe you should try and read your bible.


1 Chronicles 21:1
Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

Job 1:6
One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.

Job 1:7
The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

Job 1:8
Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

Job 1:9
“Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied.

Job 1:12
The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Job 2:1
On another day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him.

Job 2:2
And the Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

Job 2:3
Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

Job 2:4
“Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life.

Job 2:6
The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”

Job 2:7
So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head.

Zechariah 3:1
Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him.

Zechariah 3:2
The Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”

Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

Matthew 12:26
If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?

Matthew 16:23
Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Mark 1:13
and he was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.

Mark 3:23
So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan?

Mark 3:26
And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come.

Mark 4:15
Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.

Mark 8:33
But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 10:18
He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Luke 11:18
If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebul.

Luke 13:16
Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what bound her?”

Luke 22:3
Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.

Luke 22:31
“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat.

John 13:27
As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”

Acts 5:3
Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?

Acts 26:18
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 16:20
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

1 Corinthians 5:5
hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

2 Corinthians 2:11
in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

2 Corinthians 12:7
Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.

1 Thessalonians 2:18
For we wanted to come to you—certainly I, Paul, did, again and again—but Satan blocked our way.

2 Thessalonians 2:9
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,

1 Timothy 1:20
Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

1 Timothy 5:15
Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.

Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 2:13
I know where you live—where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives.

Revelation 2:24
Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you,

Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Revelation 20:2
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

Do you think those that wrote these^^^ are just playing and fooling around?

striktlymi: I understand the point you tried to raise here but you are getting it all wrong. What exactly does it take to love God? Is it by recognising him as God? The simple answer here is a resounding NO!!! Christ made us understand what it takes to love him:

John 14:15
King James Version (KJV)

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If one calls himself a Christian and acknowledges God but does not keep the commandments of Christ then that individual deceives himself. On the converse, an unbeliever who has no prior knowledge of Christ or of God due to no fault of his, but does right in line with the principles of right conscience, demonstrates by that act that he or she loves God.

Recall that God himself made us understand that in the days of the new covenant he will entrench his laws firmly in the hearts of men:

Jeremiah 31:33
King James Version (KJV)
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Now, one can argue that God was referring to the Israelites when he made that comment but we know that argument is not tenable because Paul reveals clearly that this also is applicable to the gentiles when he said:

Romans 2:10-20
King James Version (KJV)
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another)

From the foregoing we can see that Paul recognises the fact that even the Gentiles, who do not have the law given to them directly, can keep the law through their natural inclinations, (i.e their consciences) and as such judgement for them would be based on the dictates of their consciences i.e for those who through no fault of theirs are not Christians.



I have shown scripturally that Christ's words were not just directed at the Jews. Remember that the letter of Paul to the Romans was written after Christ left this Earth and Paul's letter confirms that the Gentiles can also keep the law without being aware.



No Jew was saved by the law of love for God and neighbour. I have demonstrated in my previous posts that everyone, whether Jew or Gentile, before or after Christ was saved only by the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. No man was in heaven before the death and resurrection of Christ.

RationalDude: Romans 5:12

............................
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.

....................
Can you explain what that verse is talking about? It says Adam was one man, you say he was a nation so who do I believe?

Bidam: If you keep on reading the bible with this kind of mindset, you will end up reading it like a storybook full of historical facts and philosophy.The bible is none of these,it is actually a spiritual book.

All scriptures from genesis to revelation is God's breathed and is profitable for teaching, rebuke,correction,instruction in righteousness that the Man of God may be thoroughly furnished and fully equipped.The book of malachi is no exception,there are principles and spiritual nuggets to be gleaned from it since Paul called us spiritual israelites

Malachi talks about the clarion call upon the people and the priests to renew their faithfulness to their covenant with God.Man is always unfaithful but God is ever faithful to His covenant between Him and his people.

Although we are no longer in the old covenant which is obsolete.The new covenant also requires renewal of our faithful-fulness to God,don't be deceived.And tithing is a proof of our faithfulness to God.

ayobase: Of course....For God so LOVE the world that He gave His only begotten SON (JESUS)

Alfa Seltzer: why do you think so?

Mintayo: Jesus is Lord.(nothing anybody can do about that)!

cocoduck: There are countless scientists that are Christians. there's absolutely nothing any damn atheist can do about it. if you don't like it,drink undiluted Tetraoxosulphate Iv acid. thanks

cocoduck: google is your friendooooooooooo

idnoble135: I've given you an answer before. Make reference to it.
If you wont ask intelligent questions, i might be forced to ignore you.
Cheers!

Mintayo: why cnt they use 'their own doing' and obey God instead,huh?
And when did christains demonize snakes?

idnoble135: I dont know about muslims.
I do not speak for all christians.
What i typed was for me. Why convince you on an issue you already made up your mind?

idnoble135: Ok, i read your reply where you insisted that those who dont know Christ can go to heaven provided they do love God and love their neighbours. The first question is which God would they love? There are gods and there is God. How can they love a God they dont know? How can they love a God whom they know nothing about?
And still on those verses, they read,

And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy
God with all thy heart, and
with all thy soul, and with all
thy strength, and with all thy
mind; and thy neighbour as
thyself.
And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do,
and thou shalt live. Luke 10:27-28

This verse like some few words of Christ are addressed specifically to the israelites and all that kept the law. That quotation was actually from the law, Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18. Now, Christ quoted from the law to the man, why? Because at that period, the God ordained way for the israelites to be saved was by the law. Thats why Romans 7:10 tells us that the law was ordained to life.
But now, the law has been set aside, you cant make it right with God via the law.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be
justified in his sight... Rom 3:20

Now we know that the system of the law was set aside at the death of Jesus. That was why the curtain of the Holy of Holies was torn. It signified the end of the law. So, trying to say that we can be saved by loving God and our neighbours is not valid here.
The only way ordained for men to be saved, to make heaven is through the gospel.

I am not ashamed of the Good News, because it is the
power God uses to save
everyone who believes—to
save the Jews first, and then
to save non-Jews. Rom 1:16

That is it. God can not save anyone anymore except by the gospel.
When Jesus spoke, he clearly made it known that,
Jesus saith to him, I am the way, the truth and the life: No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
And to your point on ignorance, this is what God makes clear to us,

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but
now commandeth all men
every where to repent: Acts 17:30

That is why the Church must get fully well into the business of evangelism by preaching the Word.
No man can be saved except through Jesus.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none
other name under heaven
given among men, whereby
we must be saved. Acts 4:12
This is what the Word of God states. I am no "fanatic" as used by some. I'm only stating what is in the Word. There is no way to heaven save through Jesus.

idnoble135: Like it has been said OP, you need to consult Alfa and his likes on NL to convince you of the existence of Satan. They are best suitable for the task.

Ifeness02: Man created God and Satan. There is evidence of both characters. If there were,their existence would have been obvious. That is why religion is delusive and dangerous. Hell fire and heaven were invented to check human barbaric behaviours.

There is no evidence the flood was worldwide. In fact there is no evidence of the ark of Noah. Adam and Eve are not the parents of all humans. Bible is nothing but a story book.

Mintayo: ur last statement is not true,satan,d serpent made adam and eve to disobey God.