₦airaland Forum

prolog3111:
I think you mistook me for an unaware person. I asked you for historical documents which proved your claims. Not for more claims nor for claims of others whom are aligned with you. If something supposedly takes place in year 1800, then you need to show me a document written in 1800 which claims it. The nineteenth century saw a lot of publications about wars taking place in Africa and none of those documents mention Benin Kingdom losing any war against an African power. As acknowledged by all real scholars, there is only one war which Benin Kingdom is recorded as losing and that is against Britain. Like it or not, you can not rewrite it.

Unaware? no! A foolish troll with the intelligence of a chimpanzee? maybe. You have that reputation on this forum

That's why I can't waste my time engaging you in an argument, imagine me doing that in 2019 with you again
You can get your hands on the scholarly journals I mentioned, they also come with their own sources.

prolog3111:
Do you care to show some documents to prove your claims ? To the best of my knowledge Benin Kingdom lost only one war and that was against united kingdom.

You can start by reading on the Jihads carried out on Benin controlled areas...

Nupe used the Islamic movements in the north as an excuse to expand their own political influence

I know you to be a troll but since you ask nicely and for the sake of others, I will share two academic works I've read on the subject

The Nupe Invasion of Esanland by Prof. Dr. Dawood Egbefo
The Jihad in the south: an outline of the 19th century Nupe hegemony by Micheal Mason

There are several more materials on this very subject

Dartilo:
Pls somebody should correct me if I am wrong, was it not dix same nupe people that oba esigie of Benin bullied and defeated in d igala war

Nupe is Nupe. Igala is Igala

So you're wrong. Plus the Nupe actually did take over territories outside benin city that were under the oba in the 19th century
Nupe effectually reduced and weakend the Benin empire during this time

aremuforlife:
but if it were to be in arab nation or western world it would have been real.
it has been recongnized by UNESCO as world heritage site

What has Arab nations or western world got to do with the question of authenticity?

Recognized by UNESCO since when? Because I follow the Unesco schemes closer than you think and I know so far there are only two sites in Nigeria designated as world heritage sites... And this fake queen of Sheba burial site is not one of them

It's fake. They just invented this to collect money from gullible people

Edokingdom:
We own lagos, and we will continue

You don't even own Esanland as close as Esan people are to Bini. It's Aworiland you wish to claim

Instead of fostering unity with people closer to you

Watch your steps, going about creating enemies out of people who ought to be taken as brothers will present a lot of problems for you.

Its funny how nobody speaks Bini outside Bini city and it's immediate environs but everyone is Bini

goalernestman:
Eko means camp in Benin

How interesting. Edo means camp in Yoruba

Going by this logic, should we conclude Edo is Yoruba?
What does Edo mean in Bini language?
The local Awori will tell you Eko means farm in their dialect, which is consistent with the records that the area was a large farmland

In my childhood I was a member of this church. And it's doctrine was the spark that let me see how evil Christianity is.

Prayers like "any Goliath of my father's house fall down and die" or "strong woman in my father's family receive fire and burn"

I was always uncomfortable with these prayers and the general anti family, anti lineage, anti human doctrine of mfm. To these mad people everyone is the boogeyman out to get you

Celestial777:
The thing pain you bro
Booooooooom

SMH. So your entire purpose in life is to cause "pain"?
All along you were never interested in the topic at hand but looking for a fight? Well it was almost obvious though

Pathetic. I pity anyone who would take you seriously

Celestial777:
I will be going to my father's house today and I will take pictures of the books written on this topic by early Christians that appreciate Ifa
Bro I will only share the cover pages with you but i I will never details
I want you to remain ignoramus of course I know you can never in this life come across the books...lol

You are a waste of time

Nairaland is not the place to discuss things like this.

An eminent war is coming and Yoruba are not prepared

Celestial777:
Share ko. Share ni
Wetin be my own if you remain ignorant
See I read Ifa corpus book by Rev Fagbola
Written in 1825
You can look it up
Better still I fit help you send the cover page
...i mean the pics so you will know I know wbay I am saying

Rev Fagbola

A reverand that is also a babaláwo

You know nothing and definitely not ready to know anything. You would have shared the video if you knew what you were talking about

Did Fagbola also say Olódùmarè had a son called ọrọ?

I want to post my thoughts here... From your moniker it seems safe to assume you are a celestial church member, a Christian organization known to be syncretists.. Mixing Yoruba Traditional knowledge with Christianity
So it's not odd at all that you will dubiously try to sell your Christian theology as being a part of Yoruba traditions too

Opiletool:
Then your conclusion is erroneous. I simply pasted what seemed like a response to the question the OP seeks answers to.

Indeed your explanation does confirm my conclusion was wrong. Sorry

Good thing the original poster is here

Celestial777:
You be didirin.... I mean real mugu
I am a Christian and a good one.
Do you think there is one person that knows all the ifa corpus
I made that remark bc I know its true.
Listen you can choose to believe or not
Na you sabi...
Professor Sophie Oluwole (late)
Have lecture on that at Felabration and on another personal interview
You can look her up on you tube
While you are thinking about if you will lolook ol her up or not you are a he goat
After you have looked her up and confirm that it's true you will become human again.

You being a Christian already doesn't put you in a descent position to talk about ifá

Can you share the YouTube video where she said Olódùmarè had only one son called ọrọ (the word)?
I would like to scrutinize the information myself and maybe learn some more Ese ifá I don't know
And I believe it is only wise to provide your source

And can you stop trying to insult your better?

Opiletool:
Bros, did you read my first sentence or you skipped it?

I believe reposting it means you approve of its message

The article started by saying it's opinion is categorical and final
That's how you first suspect it's going to be complete nonsense

There is too much evidence to actually prove Odùduwà cannot be Ekaladerhan
1. If he was, Oranmiyan wouldn't have called himself Oba but retained the Ogiso title of his fathers
2. Ogiamien wouldn't say Oba is a foreigner and reject Oranmiyan with so much support that Oranmiyan actually failed to enter the city but had to found Uselu and rule from there
3. Ọba Ewedo who finally defeated the Ogiamien of his time wouldn't have bought the land of Bini from Ogiamien even after defeating him at war.. This is part of the Ekiopagha treaty
Why buy your own father's land??
4. No part of the oba of benin praises mentions or connects him with Ekaladerhan or the Ogiso
He is only mentioned as leopard of the Palace, son of Odudua of Ife
5. The claim that Odùduwà is corrupted from "Izoduwa" or Imadoduwa is flawed and dead when you realize the man is called "Ododuwa" in Benin traditions


If you want to find out more about Odùduwà, look to oke-ora, Ido and Igbo idio
These are 3 places where he is known to have lived with Oke ora being his actual origin

bilms:
Does Ifa support or condemn idol worshiping?

This is an important question needing knowledgeable answer.

Kindly shed more light on this

Does Christianity support idol worship? If your answer is no, then I don't see how Ifá supports idol worship

bilms:
IFA'S TAKE ON IDOL WORSHIPING

Ao le be igi ni igbo
We can't cut a tree from the forest

Ko wa di olowo eni
And it becomes our commander

Orere ko le ni iyi to eni to gbe
A craft can't be more prestigious than the crafter

Oni oju
It has eyes

Ko le ri iran
But it can't see

Oni ese
It has legs

Ko le sare
But can't run

Ifa loba
Ifa is the overseer king

Orisa losin
The gifted are the messenger
[
Olodumare ni kan lo to gbekele
Only the creator can be relied upon

Ori ni a ba ma bo
We should rather worship the maker

A ba fi Orisa sile
And leave the gifted people

Ni ijo Ti ori ngbeni
While the creator is aiding us

Nibo ni Orisa wa
Where are the gifted one's?

Can someone please translate the Yoruba into a more appropriate and acceptable English language?

I have always known the saying to be "ifá loba, Orunmila losin" = Ifá is king, Orunmila is Supreme

I hope you realize that Ori (Eleda:the creator) is different from Olodumare?

Opiletool:
Below is a comment from Celestial777 made in another similar thread.


"Ifa loba
Orisa losin
Eledumare nikan lo to gbe okan Le

Odu irete
Ifa condemn idol worshiping
Ori ni a ba bo..a ba fi Orisa sile...ijo
Ti ori ngbeni nibo ni Orisa wa


Let's now talk about Orisa
What is an Orisa? Orisa is someone great that has live on earth before.
Awon ti ori sa so to
That is why you get the term orisa
Is like using the name of baba Oyedepo to pray
Like God of Oyedepo
So Orisa is a medium to get to Eledumare Agotun
Like in Catholic each profession has its own patron saint.
E.g saint Peter patron of fishermen
Saint Thomas Aquinos patron of sailors
So Saint Ogun is Patron of blacksmith and welders

Eledumare only is to be worshipped....the means is now left with you.
I chose to go through Christ for a reason cos
The story of creation said Eledumare and His only son word (oro) were the only one present when the world was about to be created.
Eji ogbe say so
And my Bible said the same
2. Secondly it is only Jesus that knows what happens when we die ..i mean after life
The Prophet Mohammed s.a.w
Said he dont know what will happen to him at death but Sheikh Ali and the rest should always pray for him...
3. Ifa said the good Priest and all those that venerated there Ifa well well while on earth will have surplus to eat at imere
That is why when a babalawo want to give kudos to his late boss he will say ...ki awo ire ma je ni imere
4.Jesus said in my Father's house there are many mansion there if no be so i will not say so

Listen that never mean I condemn any religion cos I know there are predestined Muslim and predestined ifa priest as well.
Well to me i know they will make heaven..very sure cos they are predestined.
Someone said what about Orumila
Baba is just a witness when humans are choosing destiny
Eleri ipin.....means witness to Destiny"

Be deceiving yourself. There is no babaláwo I know who can confirm the existence of any Ese Ifá saying anything like Olódùmarè having a son, much less one named ọrọ (word). Eji ogbe is too popular for this to be ignored by many if such Ese Ifá existed
Clever way to try to link ifá to John 1:1

Olu317:
You amaze me with your discredit through coincidental condemnation of a semitic language you cant even write nor understand it, yet you are quick to condemn? Ordinarily, I expected you to do some slight study on semitic language which was spoken 5000+years ago in the middle East amd see the greatness of Yoruba ancestor.

Another thing is that you need know that migration did happened to West Africa,which the evidence can seen in the Pitchfork found on Opa oranmiyan. I don't know if you even know what this mean? If you actually want to know, then start up gradually by learning the classic Hebrew. Perhaps, you need my help? Then ask me for it.

https://www.nairaland.com/4735900/unanswered-questions-yorubas-hebrew-heritage

This questions are still there if you have gotten your answers

Otherwise please don't mention me. I don't have time for any psychotic person that believes things that aren't real

iSlayer:
I strongly believe that in a time before history as we know it, the now Igbo people and Yoruba and possibly further west up to Akan in now Ghana were one giant race.

Yes this is true and not difficult to see but let's not distort history while we are at this.
"igbo" names in Yoruba towns have nothing to do with igbo (ibo)

Rossikk:
That does NOT necessarily mean that references to 'Igbo' in Yoruba ALWAYS denote the bush. Why would place-names be named 'the bush' anyway? Who does that? They could instead, infer some historical connection to the Igbo people or ethnic group. That sounds more plausible in my view.

There are places in Germanic Europe named after fords
Erfurt, Frankfurt, Stamford etc

So what is so absurd about naming a place after forests/vegetation, in a region full of forests?

Even when you look at the history of the towns with "igbo" in their names, they are said to have been forest areas cleared for settlement

y3mi:
Good point, I've drawn similar connection between Yorubas and other past civilizations documented, however let me ask you this....how do you and I explain the tremendous spatial distance between two historically distant civilizations yet etymologically connected ? Sometimes don't you think names of places and group of people could just be a matter of mere coincidence ?

Its just coincidence and outstretched connections . There's no record of mass migration of people from the middle east into west Africa

Also consider that the names of people or places in the middle east that you are exposed to are transliterated, so you are not being exposed to the exact names, and you probably don't know how these names are pronounced

Blue3k:
Source: https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/top-news/336218-nigeria-orders-teaching-of-history-as-standalone-subject.html

finally.
Maybe a little world and African history to build Africanists and world citizens out of our children

Jaqenhghar:
What of those who endure it from their black husbands.

For different reasons

I tell you, most of these women would never take it from a black man

cvibe2:


They are doing it for themselves...they (native doctors) are also experiencing crushing poverty and hardship caused by corrupt politicians. So if they can't handle and strike those politicians with thunder and lightening...I say once again, gerarraheremehn!

They are experiencing worse from the likes of you. Are you and your politicians going to respect the ancestral traditions? Are you going to commend them for being custodians of these traditions and ensuring that we haven't lost our identity?
Essentially you and your politicians are the same to them

Maybe they need to send lightening to you first

Neddstark:
You really need to stop this. Domestic violence victims have the choice to LEAVE. But because of the few gains of the marriage like luxury and money, some choose to stay. Word has the man has been beating her since. Why didn't she get the fark out? She should have.

So many African girls endure this from their white husbands.
Its usually a slave-master relationship, especially when the white guys realize how worshipped they are by most Africans

So many practical disadvantages from marrying white guys
1. They age quick
2. They are too sickly and can't take of their basic needs at old age
3. They are usually the type that couldn't get a white woman
4. Bad Sex
Etc

Neddstark:
Would have loved to pity her. But imagining how many Naija guys she may have shunned, rejected and abusdd all because she wanted to date a rich white man, makes me withhold my sympathy. But her daughter didn't deserve this in any way. RIP to both

Rich white man?? Lol
I doubt rich white men marry African girls

Its the struggling white men who can't normally get a fellow white woman who run to Africa to arrange a brainwashed African girl

cvibe2:
Native doctor that cannot invoke thunder and lightening to strike corrupt politicians destroying the country and causing poverty in the nation...is that one a native doctor? Will you gerarraheremehn!

and why would they do that for you, when you don't respect them or give them opportunities in their own land?
Why would they do that for you, when you didn't ask them?

MrFly:
How did u start that relationship with a native doctors daughter?

is she not a woman? What is wrong with being a "native doctor"

Holycity:
being a native doctor child doesn't mean you are a native doctor your self... some of you might be dating one and don't know... she might be good

She might be good meaning

Is she expected to be bad? Is being a "native doctor" bad
This word is very simple... Native doctor, a doctor of the native variety
I don't know how people don't understand this

Everything African is just bad to brainwashed people I guess

MetaPhysical:
Yoruba culture does not support marrying siblings. In fact the reason that Yoruba do "ida ana" (familiarity with inlaws) is partly to explore past connections, exchanges and make sure the new bethrothal is permissible and does not cross lines of what is disallowed.


On a non travelling Oba, some people in an online discussion had attempted to ascribe same f00lish attribute to Ooni as the Edos do to Omo n'Oba by suggesting that on the occassion he had to travel to to Lagos and mediate on the issue of dynasties and beaded crowns he was actually in contravention of tradition and culture and an Ooni must not travel. That was bullchyte and I shut it down with a good measure bullchyte in their face.

In that event it was reported that all Obas in Yorubaland vacated palace and would not return to throne until Ooni was safely back on his throne. There are hundreds of Obas that must have done that simple task. How did they know what to do when they heard of their Ooni taking a trip? Its because the culture had a process for such traditional rites. So it must be the practice otherwise Obas would not have known what is required of the occassion.

Glorification of the Benin stool has taken many dimensions echoed up and down the soclai strata from most educated Edo to the most ignorant urchin and they all seem to agree that their Oba does not travel, traditionally. So we have on records Oba of Benin travelling to meet and participate in a congregation of Yoruba Obas.

An Oba will break tradition for a higher hierarchy. An Oba whose tradition forbids travel except to attend meeting with Ooni suggests he is submitting to a hierarchy greater than his tradition. This should be accepted, if nothing else to prove, as acknowledgement of the Supremacy of Ooni over Omo n'Oba.

I have long stopped arguing on this forum.
It is a culture that allows you marry your brother's or father's widow that cannot allow a king marry two sisters? A king who can "gbẹsẹ lè" (claim) any woman? Lmao OK

Ọọ̀ni traditionally/historically does not travel. First time it happened was at duress from the British administration. And that prompted other Obas to leave their palaces
Oba of Bini on the other hand have always been traveling