₦airaland Forum

NoToPile:
That's Igbo culture.

The Yoruba guy that married the lady knows its not applicable in Yoruba land, but since his wife is ibo, the wives family would have given him the total rights to the child.

In Yoruba land, the man who impregnates the woman is the father of the child irrespective of whether he marries her or not.

Well I think legally the person who impregnated the lady is the father except in cases of documented adoption .

not totally correct, as far as I know, in Yoruba culture, right to paternity is bestowed by the mother of the child; that is if she claims a man as the father, and the man accepts, another man cannot have rights over the child, biological or not

gregyboy:
u make me laff lets take it scientifical historically on this ur quote

white clothes and beads was never in yoruba land b4 the british came as well as wearing clothes these are present adaptating in the 17 and 18century when yorubas encountered the white men who then brought clothes for the yorubas all your ancestors where naked b4 precolonial era unlike the hausas and fulani who LovePeddler clothes to cover thier bodies due to thier religion

back to the benins. the benis where also naked before the encountered the poutuguese in the 14c as a matter of fact tue portuguese brought the white linean to the benin as well as coral bead which was gotten by the portuguese while sailining the coast we traded pepper and rubber as well as non indigenous slaves to the portuguese in return of clothes and guns
thats why you see the benins chiefs clothing like that of a priest

scientifically izoduwa was born centuries afer the Portuguese visit to the benins who got to wear the benin regalia as a prince that is a white clothe and a red round bead and which we know the yorubas dont wear round beads and not even red beads to start with

obatala is joke story a person who is not even revered in yorubas history his story is only brought up to propagate controversy scientifically that is nothing like obatala that his joke story inshort youruba stories as whole is full of lies

a yoruba stories says obatala is the elder brother of oduduwa who was drunk and oduduwa took advantage and became king instead of him

anoda account says he was the first yoruba king who ruled and oduduwa came centuries later

do u know what science will say about obatala he never existed and even if he existed he didnt come from sky and didnt wear white clothes so you dont know ur ancestors you just paste what your father told you in your skull

even benin has a myth of creation smilar to the yorubas but it is dicarded because therw is no scientific back and to tell you the first ruler ogiso who came from was also said that he whor white clothes like that of obatala but we all know is all a myth so we dont add it to history and i believe it was the benin son who took story of creation to ile ife and yoruba adopted it like Christians adopted the story of creation from the biblr

Smh. I stopped reading where you said Yorubas didn't wear clothes until the Europeans. I know everything after that just like everything you have posted before that will be bullshit and I'm tired of seeing Africans so stupid, talking in fields they know nothing about

I thought you were a human being worth a decent conversation on History. If you don't even know the Yorubas have had a booming clothing industry how can you understand basic principle of African historical research?

gregyboy:
u make me laff lets take it scientifical historically on this ur quote

white clothes and beads was never in yoruba land b4 the british came as well as wearing clothes these are present adaptating in the 17 and 18century when yorubas encountered the white men who then brought clothes for the yorubas all your ancestors where naked b4 precolonial era unlike the hausas and fulani who LovePeddler clothes to cover thier bodies due to thier religion

back to the benins. the benis where also naked before the encountered the poutuguese in the 14c as a matter of fact tue portuguese brought the white linean to the benin as well as coral bead which was gotten by the portuguese while sailining the coast we traded pepper and rubber as well as non indigenous slaves to the portuguese in return of clothes and guns
thats why you see the benins chiefs clothing like that of a priest

scientifically izoduwa was born centuries afer the Portuguese visit to the benins who got to wear the benin regalia as a prince that is a white clothe and a red round bead and which we know the yorubas dont wear round beads and not even red beads to start with

obatala is joke story a person who is not even revered in yorubas history his story is only brought up to propagate controversy scientifically that is nothing like obatala that his joke story inshort youruba stories as whole is full of lies

a yoruba stories says obatala is the elder brother of oduduwa who was drunk and oduduwa took advantage and became king instead of him

anoda account says he was the first yoruba king who ruled and oduduwa came centuries later

do u know what science will say about obatala he never existed and even if he existed he didnt come from sky and didnt wear white clothes so you dont know ur ancestors you just paste what your father told you in your skull

even benin has a myth of creation smilar to the yorubas but it is dicarded because therw is no scientific back and to tell you the first ruler ogiso who came from was also said that he whor white clothes like that of obatala but we all know is all a myth so we dont add it to history and i believe it was the benin son who took story of creation to ile ife and yoruba adopted it like Christians adopted the story of creation from the biblr

I stopped reading where you said Yorubas didn't wear clothes until the Europeans.

Smh. I thought you were a human being worth a decent conversation on History. If you don't even know the Yorubas have had a booming clothing industry how can you understand basic principle of African historical research?

RedboneSmith:
Did the math a long time ago. The Oranmiyan story get K-leg. This is why it is dangerous to place too much faith in oral traditions. Thank god for the little corrections we are able to make in the light of archaeological evidence.

Oral tradition is what we have, to discredit it is to not have a history at all. Archaeological findings don't need to correct anything, rather support or bring to light new information that don't exist in oral traditions

When we doubt a certain story(not all stories are part of tradition) there are other ways to validate - festivals, stories from other towns, rites and rituals. Lack of validation is bad for a story, because anybody can say anything that isn't really part of the ages long oral traditions

RedboneSmith:
Are you saying that the radiocarbon-dating of Luwo's pavements which yielded dates from the 12th century is wrong?

Or are you saying that associating the pavements with Luwo is wrong?

Either of those or oranmiyan wasnt the founder of Oyo

Do the math

RedboneSmith:
By the 12th century, the 21st Ooni was already reigning in Ile-Ife, if the radiocarbon-dating for the Luwo pavements match the oral tradition.

The 'Oduduwa Era' must have begun by the 9th or 10th century.

and by the 12th century Oranmiyan wasnt even born. there is no dating of such in oral tradition

Do the math

And Ajayi-bembe was saying something last week
Foolish man

nobaga:
While I share Ajayi-Bebe feelings about the intentional exclusion of Lagosians from the scheme put together by Tinubu from Oragbiji in Osun State, Ajayi affiliation conceding Lagos Island to Benin is misplaced.

Bini itself is Yoruba regardless of the politics of the day. The ligua franca in Bini palace until recently was Yoruba, their gods are Yoruba and the names of the royals until recently are Yoruba.

Oduduwa came before Christ and existed not only in Yoruba history buy in that of their cousins worldwide including Ijaw before Ikalehan appearance in the 14th century.

Ajayi-Bembe cannot reconcile that by claiming Bini and Awori are the same. That is pure self serving. He can get away with that by claiming all Yoruba are cousins.

Aromire own Isale Eko a descendant of Ogunfimonire, an Awori from Ife own Lagos from Isheri to Isale Eko.

https://www.nairaland.com/4018415/ogiso-bini-ijaw-came-ile-ife#59914051

It's historical fallacy to say Oduduwa came before Christ. I assume you mean the King oduduwa and not the mythical one that is talked about in Yoruba creation stories.
Because, the King Oduduwa must have lived in the 12th/13th century. 51 kings of Ife, Oyo founded by his son etc.. do the math

gregyboy:
yea ...i get ur point ikaladeran izoduwa known as oduduwa have so many songs sang of his journey to ile ife and he was about to be killed many bears is name in benin names like izoduwa,oduwa,osagieduwa and so on his name is been immortalised in streets in benin he was never a king in benin tho so more would have been documented about him .when you go to the benin musuem you will see other related iteams of him

oromiyan on the hand had a vast history because he strarted a new era he was the one who started the benin prince not seen his father till is death because he was never close to his son eweka .eweka was been trained by his grandfather and other noble chiefs he was only communicating with is dad through telegraphy stool which is still found in d museum uptill now

note: izoduwa wasnt a big figure in the benin history unlike how he is in yoruba land
we acknowledged oba ewuare 1 than him because he made benin what it is .the yoruba decided to document everything about izoduwa doesnt makes him not a benin man a wise mam once said a king isnt respected in his own home that's what happended to izoduwa but that doesnt still gives prove he is not a benin man his dressing has said he is a benin man not arab him

It's not even about ikaledehan or izoduwa as a person. It's about how this ikaledehan can be connected to Oduduwa. Have you ever wondered that they could be two different persons?

1.
Let's look at the name izoduwa- "path of success" as bini says it means. Oduduwa - principle of creation as Yoruba says it means. Clearly the two names don't correlate

2.
The name "oduduwa" is known in Bini. There are traditions and sayings using the name "Oduduwa" or "Oodua". Especially when talking about the Oba or Uhe(Ife)
In the Oba's oriki(The only person in Edo culture with oriki) he is called "ovi'oodua n'uhe" son of Oduduwa of Ife not son of Izoduwa, he is also called son of Adimula

How come bini have tradions of Adimula aka Oduduwa and only connect him with Ikaledehan through stories that are not backed by traditions?

wearing a white cloth and rounded coral bead and chains showing he was about to be killed a staff showing he has been treaking in the forest only these will tell u is a benin man

White clothes are sacred in Yoruba culture, Ife especially, it denotes oneness with the spirits, purity so to say. Yoruba traditionally practice a priest-king system and at that time it was even more serious with the likes of Obatala always wearing white, it became an Ife symbol of royalty and spirituality. So oduduwa wore white as well. Coral beads are Yorubawide accessories, long, short, round, straight all over yorubaland. And coral bead making was the profession of Oduduwa's wife. how does that connect oduduwa with Bini?

That staff is a King-priest staff that all 13 Obas before oduduwa carried. It has nothing to do with trekking from Bini. Also the statue of oduduwa you are making all this silly observations from is not imagined from his first time in Ife but long into his reign...you could clearly see the crown, couldn't you?


Do you know where Ooni of Ife goes to collect the crown of Oduduwa? Well...the makeshift, cause the real one was taken by Owa Idanre. That's the same place oduduwa's ancestral shrine is said to be.

Jacob Olupona wrote a book "City of 201 Gods" about Ife where he observed some of the rituals of Oduduwa, nothing about Bini. It is so localized that it is safe to assume oduduwa was of the very land

PabloAfricanus:
Another one bubbling with fierce nationalism!
When next you go home, ask your elders about how Ifa saw Oduduwa coming and told the elders at Ife to welcome him, that he will help them.
They saw him coming, though some heads of the houses like Obatala put up a resistance and fought to maintain the status quo.
Guess who formed awo cults to protest his dominance?
Guess where he came from?
Guess why there has always been a mythology and story about Oduduwa coming from somewhere in the east?
If you believe the recent fabrications to distance now learned Yoruba historians from that Far East migration story, then I am sorry.
There is a whole lot of intertwined history with Nupe, Bini, Hausa and Yorubas...especially Nupes than is presently documented.
May be you should do some research and inform yourself.

Recent fabrications also include the bini claim

There is no evidence that Oduduwa came from bini. This is sub Saharan Africa where coronation rites, rituals and traditions, festivals, songs etc are used to tell stories for example; when the owa idanre says he took oduduwa's crown he proves it by showing the crown itself in a festival similar to Olojo in Ife, in idanre there are songs and rituals of how those who came to retrieve the crown have failed

When Ooni wants to show that he defeated Obatala it is proven through a festival. How Moremi saved Ife is portrayed in a festival

What festival exist in bini that portrays oduduwa as a Bini man? What oriki or song? What part of the coronation rites of the Oba of bini portrays oduduwa?
What saying connects oduduwa to Bini?

Some shameless morons who are driven by sentiments and not passion for history came out to say something that has no basis in any their own culture or anybody's culture and more fools like you believe

What is the difference between the Bini claim and Mecca? Both lack evidence and consistency


If you want to know oduduwa's origin, to go Ife...theres an oduduwa cult, there are families who have been tasked for over 800years to pass down stories about oduduwa and keep his groove - the leader of these families is called Obadio.

Coronation rites of the ooni tells us where his origin is, where he first goes to collect a crown (a makeshift crown, his the real one is now in Idanre)

laudate:
Thank you for the translation, o! Unfortunately, my grasp of Yoruba language is minimal, so I wasn't sure about how to proceed with the translations. See as he was just cutting and pasting everything gbururu.... without checking to see which one was fact, which was fiction and which had become a fable. See, a few of these Bini chiefs writing these articles, end up inserting some aspects of folklore into their works, and if you are not very observant, you would not be able to distinguish fact from fiction. Part of it has been influenced by impressions of grandeur of the old Benin royal court and its' empire.

Nobody is disputing the fact that kings were sent from Benin to rule Lagos island. But this was done for the sake of commerce. Those kings did not own lands or property in Lagos at the onset, and they were not there to colonise the people but to give the Bini access to the sea!

Here is one account that captures this aspect:



This view is also supported by a number of scholars. The Benin royal court did not set out to colonise the Yoruba-Awori people, or take over their lands, because they just wanted access to the sea in order to trade.

,
Exactly! Bini had the power to take over Aworiland, they even sacked Iddo at one time but Bini's interest was control of the sea not the land.

So it's complete madness for any bini person to open his mouth or use his fingers to claim any inch of Aworiland belongs to Bini

Frederick2017:
Oga Etiosa is my name and I'm a bini. We know we own Lagos but we just watching the funny land grabbers. When time comes to claim it, na one day e go take us to collect our land. It is a very easy something

Smh. You know you own Lagos? Such a stupid idea you have in your head
Why don't you learn history and stop all this sentiments

babaolofin:
What is the meaning of Idu Iganran?
which language?

Who was the original owner of Eyo Masquerade? Bini? or Ijebu Remo?

Where are the Aworis (people mainly in Lagos & some part Ogun State) from?
Bini or Ife?

.

Place of pepper - Iduganran. This is the area Aromire used for his pepper farm before the palace was built

Eyo cult originated from Ijebu remo, the maternal grandmother of Ologun kutere was from Ibefon and it was through this connection that Eyo came to Isale-eko

Awori are originally from Ife but allowed bini descendants to settle among them

Xda59:
If oduduwa is not from benin, then where did he come from? He fell from heaven right?

oduduwa actually has his origins in Oke-ora , a small village east of Ile-ife

Xda59:
Based on the evidences provided so far, Lagos belongs to bini. What does etiosa, eko, oshodi etc mean in yoruba?

Eti osa - edge of the lagoon

Eko - means camp in bini, also means farm in Awori

Oshodi - a Yoruba corruption of a Tapa name. The founder of Oshodi was a Tapa man from modern Niger state, he was a slave but grew through the ranks

baby124:
That's right. Aromire family preexisted Bini coming as well. They need to be careful with all these claims because they will force the original families to assert their claims and hold tightly to the crown while downgrading these families.

Aromire is probably the most significant family in Lagos. They owned almost everything from the beginning...giving out lands and authority to use their land so freely

Classic case of having too much that you don't know what to do with it again

Eleko and the bini descended families should be careful not to insult their benefactors

Blackfyre:
But looking at it from now backward, all royal families or at least most come from one source. It only branches into more families when after the first his sons decide to establish each family for themselves.

The only difference with Benin is that, the first son becomes king irrespective of either brothers or uncles.

By and large, especially for the Idejo family bit I have come to read, Lagos is owned by Yoruba. Like someone said on here, they are the real power broker of Lagos...

True that is why I sometimes wonder why the Akinsemoyin family are completely dismembered from Royalty.

Lagos politics and history is very interesting and probably the most complex in Yorubaland

Blackfyre:
You are dodging my question.

There was no royalty before King Ado, not even a palace. The birth of the royalty of Lagos Island was from King Ado and since he conquered the place and name it Eko, makes all who succeed him his descendants. I also know that deceased Lagos Kings were sent to Benin to be buried and paid royalty to Benin but that stopped after sometime.

Now since its the royal families that owns the land and are the authority over the land, doesn't that mean Benin are by the conquest and Ado, owners of Lagos?

You keep saying king Ado but Ado was more like a commander charged with security and third party in case of dispiute between the Idejo

Yes he is refered to as Oba but let's say practically he wasn't an Oba. It was his first son Gabaro who was given land by Aromire(a Yoruba landowner over all of isale-eko, excluding Enuwa- Which belonged to bini)
On the authority of the Idejo he was allowed to build his own council - a council made up of people Oba of bini sent to him

Blackfyre:
Oh okay... Guess that's what laudate was referring to.

So that would mean the current dynasty ancestry are originally Ijesha...

Yes by lineage but Ologun kutere's claim to the throne was through his mother's lineage, since she was the daughter of Ado and Akinsemoyin's children were young.

This applies to all the "royal families", because as you know in Yorubaland(yes isale-eko is yoruba not bini land) obaship is not owned by one single family unlike in Bini
If Isale eko is Bini they would be practicing bini tradition not Yoruba.

Blackfyre:
This would then mean that the royal families of Lagos island are originally of Benin ancestry from the time of King Ado?

Yes from Ado dynasty

But the current dynasty is Ologun kutere whose father was an Ijesa man

JMAN05:
Sarassin has been of the view that the writers of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) borrowed from the religious culture of the land they resided in. and in fact, the Supreme Diety of the Jews is a son of the God of Canaan (Canaan Supreme Diety is El).

More of his position could be seen below:



The purpose of this thread is to determine the veracity of this claim.

Muttleylaff and JMAN05 are interested in this claim for we wonder how such claim could be true.

Lets try to be sincere and polite in this thread. Pls do not derail the thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/3046086/abraham-pagan
Remember this thread?

There I drew up a short article on Abraham's devotion and beliefs

Abraham as you know is an ancestor of the Hebrews/Jews so their religion and by extension Christianity finds its root in Abraham's devotion

Note: I avoided using the word "religion" for Abraham's beliefs

GooseBaba:
Lolz....guy how far na?

Don't mind this yeye poster....all he/she posts is telling Africans that we don't know who we are. Arrant rubbish I tell you..

my guy. I'm good o.

I should send u a pm. Let's stay in contact

Another mad person has joined Nairaland

I blame christianity for all this nonsense. How will somebody just sit down and start drawing up yoruba history from his head, a head that is only filled with Hebrew worship

Rada rada osi

Mumu.

Religion making the most intelligent animals on earth act like the least intelligent

bantudra:
lagos is a portugies word....that area called lagos is called eko...

and belongs to the bini empire...

smh

You wasted your years in school

1. Lagos city is Aworiland
2. Benin empire doesn't exist anymore

Probz:
I’m waiting for alhajareem and macof to come in here and give moral support to Olu.

I use Amadioha to beg you, don't involve me in that guys shiit

Lifestone:
Beautiful portrait. My concern is that Yoruba language is becoming obsolete and he should urgently intervene and do something about it. As a society is evolving, so should her.language. Today we have so many things without Yoruba words for it.

Yoruba history suffers even more

And ooni is guilty of distortions too

delishpot:
Shior, I know say you go support your aunties for there. You too believe say Na winch ba? I crown you their king.

no o

That wonan ignorant pass. That's just a normal creature... Nigerians are just not well educated

delishpot:
Ignorance is the bane of a society. This creation.... At least they acknowledge the fact that it is a creation not a creator.

Talking about ignorance and you display your own ignorance

Creature, synonymous for "animal"

BabaRamota1980:
Bullcrap!!!

Actually it's not. The op is very correct
Just that he concentrates on the spiritual aspect of oduduwa rather than the historical

Historical oduduwa came from Oke-ora

Ubenedictus:
nah, the idejo was the only decision making body before the benins

binis didn't even settle in Aworiland until the Idejo issued an invitation

At first Bini set up a military camp headed by Ashipa at today's Enuwa( at the extreme edge if the lagoon)
After the invitation Ado moved to Ido island and was tasked with the defence of Aworiland

Administrative duties had always laid with the Idejo

It was Ado's son Gabaro who set up Eko as a community cum kingdom by extending the initial camp on land given to him by Aromire(the Idejo chief that Bini descendants always called "land owner"

Edit: in fact Aromire didn't give him any land, he was simply allowed to build his House or Palace (Iga) on the land. Gabaro then used his influence and military advantage to declare a kingdom and request insignia of office from Oba of Bini

Lagos traditional politics is not like anywhere else and not until recently the Eleko was more like a baale
And Oba of Bini only had reference from bini descendants and demanded fealty from the Eleko, the Idejo were not vassals. Everybody went about their business, Eleko to provide defence and the Idejo to control their land