₦airaland Forum

Gray Beard:
Norr make i yab u o! Hitler na christian? ?? ? ?

OIlodo rabata roboto

Did Hitler alone personally kill the 6 million Jews?. . . .Remember he got some of his inspirations to go against the Jews from the writings of Martin Luther who happens to be the father of protestants Christians. . .

Gray Beard:
Aneg bros, norr blaspeheme. Blood of Jesus. Ftaher forgive him for he know not what he say.

Koran na demonic book. Na shaitan inspire am.

And which evidence do you have to show that an entity called satan inspired the writing of the koran? Muslims believe that satan also decieved the writers of the bible to distort the truth, no?. . . .Your evidence to show that the Koran is not the words of Allah who is the creator of the universe is what?. . .

Hindu na idol.

Ohh, really? But the largest sect of the Christian faith(Catholics are also idol worshipers, no?) By the way Christianity is idol worshiping according to the over 70 percent of the world's population that do not accept its stories and doctrine, no?

Jesus Christ remains the only legitimate fiogure amongst all these religions

According to the belief you have been indoctrinated with or according to reality?. . . .

Gray Beard:
Na muslim family cut dis girl nose because she run commot from husband wey dem force am to marry. in fact na her own brothers hold her for ground, make the husband cut her nose like dis - -

Christians have killed uncountable people to in the name of the bible and Yahweh,no?. . .Islam is just 1600 years old. . .When Christianity was 1600 years old, the thing that comes to mind is violent acts the like crusades witch trials and the inquisition. . . .There is no act of violence that is being committed in the name of Islam that has not been committed in the name of Christianity. . .Study your history book pls. One of the greatest crimes against humanity the holocaust was carried out by Christians on the Jews. . . . . .

Gray Beard:
But i hope say you know say koran na handbook for terrorism. . . . hindu na pagan

According to who? Which God appeared to you and told you personally that the Koran and the Hindu Vedas are not his word but the bible?. . . .Christianity is a pagan religion as far as over 70 percent of the world population are concerned, no?. . . .

Gray Beard:
Na jus play i dey take am play na. . . , . .na fight?

No be fight ohhh. . . .

Gray Beard:
Bros, dem talk say person wey dey ask kweshun, no dey miss road. e good to dey ask all this kweshuns dem. But my two kobo be say, the one wey beta pass so so kweshun na to enter prayer, make Oga God belle-full you with the ansa dem dem. notin wey praya norr fit do

You sure? prayer no fit restore amputee limbs na. . . .abi na lie?. . . .If na lie then,I get friend wey be amputee, you fit pray make we see weda him amputated limbs go dey restored. . . 

Gray Beard:
That is not the question for the day oga sir., the question is whether this world was created, or popped out of stephen hawkings yansh. . . that is the question. if you want to know about God, why dont you abandon science and try reading ya bible

Who made Steven Hawkings and authority over the existence of the universe?. . . .Why not the Koran or the Hindu vedas? They are also words of the creator/creators of the universe, no?. . .

Gray Beard:
SHARRRRAP DIA! KONKOLO ILLITERATE.

You disembodied remnant of the shite of a quadripletic lizard.

Just look at the nonsense you have posted above. Who on earth defines atheism as "disbelief in religion and its myths". . . .? That is NOT the definition of atheism. I will not bother with such a hare-brained fellow as yourself since you claim to be an atheist without even knowing what atheism is!

No where on earth has atheism EVER been defined the way you defined it! You are a STARK AND RAVAING ILLITERATE LUNATIC.

For your education, here is the definition of atheism -

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

M.O.R.O.N! Get an education before you come to interact with a wise old man like me.

Wise old man. .Na fight?. . . .

[quote author=Rhino.5dm link=topic=735006.msg8920893#msg8920893 date=1313334638]@ MazaaaaaaJe! Kana to hutu abinka. . .

I understand what you are driving at and majority of what you posited is by taking consideration of different brands of God/s, which is not what i was insuniating.

My logic of God is the ability to decipher the deep massage of a supreme being,
irrespective of the religious dogma , and so many unverifiable claims by the Atheist.

I was able to infer that the world can not be perpectual and infinite, since we have witness extinction and hardly see any new creations.[/quote]Is there a Supreme being or supreme beings that is or are responsible for the existence of the universe? If yes does it or do they really have a message for mankind? Or are we just assuming that they do just to satisfy our own curiosity?. . . .People see spirits and ghosts and Gods etc once they truly believe in them. . .As I aforementioned believing is seeing. . . . . .

I think instead it's simply human nature to have these experiences. Our minds are complicated and our imaginations are vast. We fill in details, we see faces in the clouds, we see ghosts when it's dark, when we dream our minds are filled with magical places and impossible things. We don't remember things perfectly (sometimes completely wrong!) and our personalities change over time. Also, our knowledge of the world is terrible, particularly in the past. Thunder was explained as Zeus riding in his chariot in the sky. This isn't stupid per say sha, it's just an understandable attempt by humans to make sense of the world around them, and its a constant human thing.

Also we are all indoctrinated in our own culture. I am an Nigerian atheist, but if I were raised in Saudi Arabia and have never stepped out of the country to see how people live their lives in other parts of the world, I am very positive I'd be a Muslim now. But it's nearly impossible to detect this indoctrination in ourselves; it's part of our own minds. Supreme being or supreme beings are all part of the human conception, is there one one or are there many responsible for the existence of the earth,I don't know. . . .Assuming there are supreme bings responsible for the existence of the universe,  Do they interact with humans the way religion portrays? The answer is NO. . .

These reasons provide an extremely plausible explanation for why people would believe in magic even when magic doesn't actually exist. Indoctrination is the word here. . .

Gray Beard:
See as you just wide ya yansh for middle of national assembly, begin dey s.hit lie commot, you no get shame at all.

Atheism is a denial of the existence of God or gods - - - however defined!

Cretin!

Mazaaaaa. . . .Yane. . .Let me disagree with you here. . .

[quote author=Rhino.5dm link=topic=735006.msg8920049#msg8920049 date=1313323417]@ Op. Your inquest is a complex one as no one can prove to you whether God exist or not. We are all applying blind faith in opposite directions. Checkout this scenario form both Atheistic and Theistic perspective

1. Yes God exist. How do i know? Because i believe without evidence>> Theist[/quote]This is not completely true because when you observe the way two Christians or Muslims talk about God to each other is completely different from the way the talk about God to an atheist ,they don't talk about some vague deist concept, they talk about God as something that is very real and interacts with them regularly, you hear about testimonies of God telling them to do things, protecting them, guiding them, granting them favors, communicating with them. They always talk about their various religious experiences. God isn't an abstract figure but something that has a voice and speaks the human language for example and changes things in their favor. When you ask them for specific evidence like answered prayers then you begin to get confusing answers. . .Is there any evidence for example that Christians are better protected from harm and diseases or are richer or more successful than non Christians through answered prayers? The answer is NO. . . .

Is there any evidence that Allah protects Muslims and Islam for the attacks of non Muslims? The answer is NO. . .Muslims truly believe that Allah fights along them when they are carrying out Jihad and they talk about it all the time, but they are always being defeated by the non Muslims and non Muslims are presently occupying their lands and killing them all the time, yet they still believe and talk about Allah being on their side and fighting for them all the time. They point to such as an example of his existence. How can the creator of the universe be on your side, fighting along with you and still end up being defeated and your lands occupied? No evidence to show that any particular religious experience is greater than another.  Belief is what drives all these things. What I find amusing is when you ask religious people specific questions about their God whom they claim talks to them and is in a relationship with them. . .They very quickly drop all their claims of being in a relation ship with their God and start asking you questions about the origin of gravity, origin of matter, origin of man or the origin of the universe. . .Relegating the very God they were telling you speaks to them or answer their prayers to the realm of the unknown because they very well that they are not sincere with themselves. Suddenly the God that is supposed to be controlling human affairs is now the God of the unknown because no body knows the origin of matter. . .That is the highest level of dishonesty IMO. . . 

2. No he doesn't. How do i know? Because i believe without evidence>> Atheist

NO, atheist don't believe without evidence atheist are not arguing about weather the universe was created or not because no body knows how the universe came about, what it is, where it is expanding into. Atheist are arguing about specific Gods. . .Gods like Allah, Yahweh, Ra, Zeus, all the pantheon of the Greek Gods, pantheon of Hindu Gods etc. . .All these Gods don't exist in reality, they are a creation of men, that is why you can't point to them, you can only point to what men have said they did, or  what men have written about them or what men said they will do or how men have stated they they act or behave. . . .Take away the Koran and its stories about Allah ,a book that was written by men to serves as a mind control unto other men and Allah ceases to exist. . .Take way the bible and its stories about Jesus or Yahweh  and these God concept ceases to exist. . . .

But i personally believe you are not going to loose anything, if you later found out that truely God exist, probably when you are death. Its all gamble. Dont be on the loosing side. So hold on to your faith until you are personally convince.

For him not to lose anything he has to believe and worship every God to which there are many of them available, because every body is going to hell or going to lose out according to some one else' religion. . . The only advice is to do what will make him happy and give him peace of mind.If its his faith then fine. . .He should hold unto it because it makes him happy not for fear of the imaginary after life that has no evidence to support it but just a mere opinion of the ancient men that thought their Gods live in the sky. . .

tbaba1234:
Now this cause must  be finite and singular because the possibility of an infinite cause makes no sense because infinity has no definition in reality and the cause must be singular because multiple causes would create a world in chaos.

So what ever is responsible for the existence is finite and singular?. . . . .Your evidence for these baseless speculation is what?. . . .

The funny things is that when it come to God the believers are now CONSTANTLY relegating their God to the realm of the UNKNOWN. . . . . .So funny. . .When you read their various religious books, the books tell us exactly how their various Gods are forever present in the lives of those that belief and how they are supposed to interact with them and make them do certain things that makes them separate from others so that people will see and believe. . .We are told that such Gods interact with humans, love humans, and are supposed to be evident in the life of the believers. . .What do we see when we look around? We only see people living according to a particular culture or laid down rules written in particular books and that's it. . . .So am always amused when believers make their God less than advertised because it is convenient for them. . . .

Suddenly, the all-powerful God isn’t so all-powerful, just so you can excuse its actions, or the God that was written to have lived in the sky where some people built tall towers to see him is now outside the universe. . . .Long before the discovery of the galaxies(with its many stars and planets) most people thought God existed in the skies and comes down to interact with humans, now that we have better knowledge of the universe, the God that interacts with humans have been relegated to the deist God that is ONLY the creator of the universe because we don't really know how the universe came about, if some day humans discover how the universe came about, the God believers will come up with another lie to perpetuate their beliefs. . . .Very funny. . . .


The funny thing is that believers often define God in such a way that they eliminate their own potential defeaters to the "no evidence" argument. In other words their definition of God is its own worst enemy.

For example:-

Believer: You won't expect to see evidence for God - He's invisible
Atheist : But he's supposed to be omnipotent - He can make himself visible.
Believer: Why should he make Himself visible just for you?
Atheist : Because he's supposed to love me and want a personal relationship with me.

@ OP

I will agree with you on one thing and this is belief is what makes people see what isn't there. . . . . You've heard the phrase seeing is believing. Well, I believe the opposite. . . . . Believing is seeing and that's the problem! If you believe hard enough you might start to "see" things that aren't actually there. Take the Africans that believe in ancestral worship for example, they are so much consumed in their beliefs that most of them see, feel and interact with their dead ancestors. . . .The human brain is a very powerful thing because it can make you see things that are not there, once you believe something so much it simply becomes your reality regardless of weather its true or not. . . .There is actual no evidence to show that any of the Gods that men worship are real. . . .All Gods are man made. . .And as such no God can be shown to exist on its own, independent of human writings, stories, beliefs etc. . . .When pressed to show that the various Gods they worship exist all they do is point to books written by humans, as words of God. . . .The fact is this books were written by the men that gave birth to what ever concept of God that they are trying to sell to others.

There is no more evidence for Allah God than there is for Jehovah God or Ra God. They are all human constructs to help them explain the world and create social systems. . . . .People just keep creating this God concept all the time, its very true especially when one considers the amount of different conceptions of God that exist, even within Christianity, leave alone outside it. . . .Most people believe in the God or Gods they were told were real when they were very small and they grow to form and shape their reality around it.

Children are very credulous, it's a survival trait. Even if you tell them very odd and unlikely things, unless someone takes the trouble to tell them those odd things aren't true, they may continue to believe it the rest of their lives. I believe that religious faith is inherent antithetical to human reason and that applying higher intellectual faculties on one's religious faith would agitate one's faith as it would reveal the absurdity and incompatibility with reality and our empirical observations of the notion of a personal God.

You look at the world, don't see God, but yet you and your fellow Christians want to believe in God to the extent that you see one all the time.

Consider that:

Many people have believed in fairies and belief in fairies was once main stream belief in Europe. You look at the world and don't see fairies.

Many people have believed in a pantheon of Greek Gods. You look at the world and don't see Greek Gods.

Many people have believed in a vast pantheon of Hindu Gods. Yet you look at the world and don't see Hindu Gods.

Many people have believed in Ghosts. Yet you look at the world and don't see Ghosts.

Many people have believed in Sea Serpents and Centaurs and Mermaids. Yet you look at the world and don't see those either.

Many people (in India) believe in a constant flux of miracles, apparitions, of holy men and miracle workers. But you look at the world and don't see those.

Many Catholics believe in the spiritual visits of Mary. You look at the world and don't see those either.

See a pattern?

Its the belief in God/Gods that is real not the God/Gods themselves because they remain imaginary. . .

justcool:
It is English that we are speaking here; I didn’t make the rules of English. English is a very gender-specific language, the rule is to address God as “He”; not necessarily because He is male. This is just the rule of the language. Just as you say “father time”, “mother nature”; it doesn’t mean that time is a father or that nature is a mother. You can address time as “He” and nature as “she”; you can even address things that are dear to you, like your country or nation as “she.”  Even boats and etc. are addressed as “she”; it doesn’t mean that they are female. It’s just the nature of the language.

Now we are back to semantics abi?. . .Ok. .No wahala. . . .My question still remains. . .Do you have any evidence to show that what ever is responsible for the existence of the universe as we know it is a single entity? Last time I checked every religion keeps making outlandish claims that their own imaginary God created the universe no? Most of them even have ridiculous creation stories to tell us that their own God created the universe, but thanks to science and what it has revealed the educated ones amongst them have abandoned such creation stories to the realm of allegory. . . .

I never repudiated the importance of science; I am a chemist/ Engineer. My point is that science is a tool limited to the physical, and should not be used to debunk God which is non-physical. True religionists know the importance of science; and true scientists know the importance of spirituality, and also know that science the fact that science exist does not preclude the existence of God and the non-physical.

How do you know that what ever is responsible for the existence of the universe is non physical?. . .The problem with your assumption is that Most scentist do not believe in God or spirituality. . .Over 90 percent of the NAS which is one of the most prestigious body of scientist today do not believe in any God or spirituality. . . .Their is no community of science that is better than the NAS and over 90 percent of them do not believe in any God. . .So your claim that true scientist know the importance of spirituality is false. . . . .

My point for mentioning the Egyptians is that atheists here make it sound as if all believers are ignorant fools. There are imminent scientists who are believers too.

The Egyptians employed science in building the pyramids, but it was the urge for the non-physical that drove them to build the pyramids. Science is simply a too that one needs in the physical; being restricted to the physical, it cannot prove or disprove anything that is non-physical.

Really?. . . .Science has disproved many Gods and will continue to do so. . .Humans have always invented Gods or other invisible entities and supernatural explanations to explain that which they don't understand. But then science comes along and tells them to stop sacrificing virgins to please some imaginary fertility Gods, science has shown people that there are no weather Gods that need pleasing, and we can do better by using irrigation and planting weather resistant crops instead of wasting time sacrificing animals to please the weather Gods. . .When sick science has shown that all you need is to live and eat rightly to avoid some kinds of diseases instead of praying to some Gods for healing or sprinkling the bloods of some animals on sick people to heal them. . .Where are the Gods of thunder and lighting? Once the scientific explanation was provided for these two phenomenon the Gods of thunder and lighting all died natural deaths , no?. . .

If one choses to not to believe in the non-physical, he should not attribute his non-belief to science. Such would be deception.

Actually I don't attribute my non belief to science per say. . . .My non belief lies on one single fact and that fact is that all Gods that men worship were created by humans. . . .

Let’s not let this deviate us from the topic at hand. Everybody gets persecuted for their beliefs. Christians persecute Muslims and vice-versa. Even among each religion, they persecute each other; some Catholics persecute Protestants and vice-verse. Sunni Muslims persecute other Muslims and vice-verse. If anything the people that are persecuted the most in Nigeria are the ritualists, traditional religionists and new agers or groups like Rosicrucians, Eckists and even adherents of the Grail Message(Cross bearers). The average Nigerian believes that members of these groups worship the devil. This is worse than not believing in God. Yet these people all flourish in Nigeria. I am a cross-bearer and I know the persecution I go through, even in my own family.

I feel your pain man. . .I have witnessed first hand persecution of some Grail message adherents back in the days. . .A friend's brother became an adherent of the grail message back in the days,and his relationship with his family ended immediately. . .I have seen some guy lose his closeness to his family because he married a woman that is an adherent of the grail message. . .So you see, religion in its very nature is like racism because it encourages segregation by telling a group of people that they are God's friends for accepting a culture and ts stories while those that disbelieve are his enemies for not accepting their culture and stories. . .People talk about freedom of religion but in reality there is no such thing. . .Once you leave the religion of your parents,most times your relationship with them ceases. . .

From my own observation, and being very honest, religionist pretty much leave atheists alone. It is the atheists that are usually very aggressive in their evangelism. Tell me why Hawkings should bring in God in his scientific discovery or speculation? Who is being the aggressor here? How many religionists, after making their religious discoveries claim that scientific laws do not exist?

If we are only guessing then why do you guys take Hawkings guesses as scientific laws that have proved that God does not exist? At first you guys were treating Hawkins like a God; now do you agree that he is only speculating? If so, then thanks for your honesty. But you should also be honest enough to admit Hawkins was out of place by attacking God with his speculations. He is being unnecessarily aggressive!

To hell with Hawkings. . .I have stated that his opinions are mere speculations, as long as he can not provide evidence for his assertions then he remains a lair. . .

You can believe or see my beliefs as speculations, that perfectly okay; you haven’t done anything wrong by doing that. I can also see my beliefs as infallible truths; that okay as long as I don’t force it on people or try to use it to disprove science or radicle another person’s belief.

You can also hold Hawkins speculations as infallible truths; that's okay, you haven’t done anything wrong; you can also share this opinion of yours with others. But you will be out of line when you force it on others or ridicule others because of their divergent opinion.

I never asked you to believe in God, or a creator; you are free to believe what you want to. But when you radicle others who do not share your beliefs, then you are definitely wrong.

You must be honest enough to admit that Hawkins is misusing science. Science is used as a tool for the understanding, comprehension of the physical world; not to prove or disprove what is non-physical.

Thanks

Again to hell with Hawkings and his speculations. . . .I don't care, as long as he doesn't provide evidence for his assertions then he remains a lair. . .But one thing I give him credit for is that he made it clear that he was just offering his personal opinions. . . .When people hold on to ridiculous beliefs I can't help but laugh at them. . . .That's just me for you. . .

davidylan:
It is already published that at least 70% of the members of NAS are overt atheists while only 7% believe in the existence of God. To then assume that we can 100% rely on the claims of the NAS by virtue of membership with regard to the question of the origin of the universe and life in general is nonsense. Like i said it is BAD SCIENCE to have arrived at a conclusion well before you test your hypothesis.
When the general belief of up to 80% of the NAS is that God doesnt exist, by default their "studies" are already geared towards confirming that conclusion!

Firstly, the members of the NAS do not believe that God does not exist by default. . . There are many Gods around and they are yet to find evidence for any of the Gods that people talk about. . . .They have looked and explored all over the world and some parts of the universe and have not seen the name or signature of any God any where. . .So basically, they have ruled out the truth of any religion and its God claims, a claim that is based on a text that contains errors of fact; Errors that, while they could not have been recognized as such by the men who wrote them, would have been glaringly obvious to a God who actually knew that, for example, the Earth was a sphere, or that the sun was powered by thermonuclear fusion. On the flip side, any God with an interest in being worshiped, or obeyed, or followed, or really, anything other than being ignored, would be able to write or inspire a holy book that all who read it found convincing; clear, perfect in its meaning, and/or undeniably true. No supposedly holy text that I have come across even gets close, but don't take my word for it; ask the more than two thirds of humanity alive today who are NOT followers of that particular text (whichever it may be). No single version of holy scripture is accepted by so much as a simple majority of humans alive today, much less of humans who ever lived. As I aforementioned. . .If the Koran was so damn convincing, why do the Christians and Hindus reject it? If the Bible was so damn convincing, why do the Muslims and Buddhist reject it?

Besides, the idea that somehow the living cell appeared after billions of years of manipulating non-living materials is tantamount to saying that over billions of years, sheet metal will develop into a fully functioning 4-wheel drive SUV. That's putting it mildly considering the level of complexity in the cell is thousands more than that in a car.

On this I will agree with you, do I know how the universe came about? The answer is no. . . .But here is the thing. . .Religion takes everything that is good about people and turns it around and calls it evil. Curiosity is the worst evil of all according to their "holy" book. I believe curiosity is one of the best things about humans and other intelligent animals. It is our curiosity that has allowed us to survive as a species. There are newer books out there that will tell a better story of the world around you than age long mythical books that were written by people who thought their God lived in the skies and they could erect structures to go and see him in the skies, books that are nothing but mind control systems. . .

davidylan:
I've often wondered why the mere mention of God draws so much RAGE from those who claim they are only disbelievers. Why?
Why is it "outrageous" to have an opinion on the supernatural? why does the atheist go into apoplexy at the mere mention of God? What is it about God that draws so much revulsion?

Its not about God, because there is no God that exist, its the belief about the existence of God that is real, and many people believe that people that do not share their beliefs are legitimate target for scorn, discrimination, harm etc all in the name of belief in God. . . .You are systematically indoctrinated to belief that any body that questions your beliefs is angry. . .I have asked you so many times if you are angry when showing the Muslims how ridiculous their beliefs are. . . .Are you angry when the name of Allah gets mentioned? An entity you believe does not exist as the Muslims claim. . . .It is clear to anyone who has followed your progress that you are not here to enlighten, but to try to point the finger at atheists, to denigrate and demean them for reasons of your own perhaps picking a fight with non-believers helps to silence your own deep-seated doubts? (See, I can presume things about you, too). What does that say about you, I wonder? I thought nonbelievers were a bunch of sour grape, 'evil people' that had a grudge. the reason so many religions teach their followers to avoid reading or hearing anything that contradicts with their belief is not simply from a desire to keep them from being lured in by evil teachers, but instead to hide the own shortcomings of their belief system.

davidylan:
That's odd. I am a scientist as well and i know quite well that there are many things i can prove on the bench without the need to grab at a bible. the bible is simply to me a manual that guides a personal relationship with a God i know is real.

Even Stephen Hawking admitted that some of his assumptions are speculations. . . .He did even not go as far as saying that he knows what he is saying to be real, he made sure that any intelligent person that was watching knew he was offering his own opinion. . . .I know my car is real, why? Because it drives me around every day. . .I know my girl friend is real why, because she is lying right here beside me, you know that you are in a personal relationship with the God of the bible because. . . . ? Have you ever seen him, heard his voice, (The bible and people claim he talks to people and sometimes appears to them cos he is alive and real) or interacted with him on a personal level or is it the systematic indoctrination that makes you see things that aren't there remember you are not alone in this. . .There are believers that go further than you to the extent of killing themselves others because of how real this God is to them. Sweetnecter for example knows that the final revelation to mankind is the Koran and he also knows that the Koran and Allah are real, no?. . . .Here is the fact. . .There is no evidence to support the notion that this 'God' character of yours exists, let alone that appeals to it have any effect whatsoever. Human's have been creating Gods since the beginning of time and systematically making themselves and others accept this belief as reality. . . .All Gods are just another idea and conception created by men, yours inclusive. . . .Humans have always invented gods or other invisible entities and supernatural explanations to explain that which they don't understand. . . .Nothing new there. . .If the Koran was so damn convincing, why do the Christians reject it? If the Bible was so damn convincing, why do the Muslims reject it? If either (or any other text) was the word of creator of the universe, we would all believe it, surely? But when we look around we see that these books like any other book were just written by men to advance their own personal desires. . . .They have nothing to do with what ever it is that is responsibly for the existence of the universe as we know it. . .

justcool:
@mazaje

You are very funny my friend! You reply did not touch anything that I said, you failed to look at my post objectively. You are trying to make me sound ridiculous to no avail. I never said that the universe was created by "a male entity who interacts with humans , wants to be worshiped and speaks the human language is WHAT?." Why do you lie like that? If you are a scientist you should let facts speak against fact and not make up things or accuse fellow posters of saying thing that they never said.

You addressed God meaning the creator of the Universe as a he, no?. . . .Your evidence that the universe has only one creator which is a he is WHAT?. . . .

I never said that the pyramids were not built by scientific principles.  Dude you are just making things up, and it is childish to resort to lying just make your opponent appear ridiculous. About electricity, I would simply have informed you if you are humble. But I will not spoonfeed you.

So you see, even the ancients that you are talking about relied on science to achieve some of their greatest feat, not on religion,the principle of erecting the pyramids are scientific. . .No religious principle was applied in its construction and surely no God or Goddess offered any advice to its construction. . .The people relied on the natural principle of science to bind all the bricks together and erect that structure. . . .

If you think that the best way to respond to the persecution that you face in Nigeria is by degrading science to a voodoo religion, then you are greatly mistaken. You cant stand up among your people and fight for your right and your beliefs?  I repeat I know people who are atheists in Nigeria; actually one of them is my friend, a very popular guy who is never afraid to let anybody know his beliefs. Every belief that people have affects others in one way or the other, it doesn't make then declare a war against others. My kids believe in Santa clause and the tooth fairy but I don't. Their belief affects me in many ways even financially because I have put money under their pillow when they lose a tooth. I have buy presents during Christmas and pretend that Santa bought them, I even had to dress up like Santa some Christmases. Sometimes during Christmas the mall is packed with kids waiting in line to see Santa; sometimes you cant buy anything at some malls because of this. You see how this affects everybody? But I haven't seen anybody declare a war of lies against kids just because of their belief in Santa.

The belief in Santa does NOT affect any body, people do NOT refuse to go to the hospital to get treated for their disease because of belief in Santa, people do not discriminate against each other because of belief in Santa, people do not go to war because of belief in Santa. . . .People do all these things in Nigeria in the name of religion. . . .Its a lie to say that atheist are not persecuted in Nigeria for being atheist, f you think am lying then try to be one fora day. . . .

Honesty is very important.

Sure, it is. . .If it means anything to you then you should admit that you are only guessing when you talk about knowing if the universe has a creator or claiming to know that the creator is a he. . .

[quote author=Rhino.5dm link=topic=729953.msg8911058#msg8911058 date=1313177177]@ Mazaje. Alarji ma ye duniya? Dun kasa mi duniya kuma sai ka share abokan arziki? To kayi ta mure samartakarka. A sauka lafiya. . .amma banda hadama [/quote]Mazaaaaaaaaaa. . .Yane?. . . .A yi hakuri mai gida na. . . . .Ba na hadama

But then.
The complex nature of a HOUSE FLY makes a mockery of the whole design and inventions by all HUMANS!. . . Lets assume the sun does not rise, how do we generate its equivalent in capacity??  Did i hear a resounding "impossible?". No doubt about contribution of science to further the simplicity of life, but its amount to intellectual dishonesty to religate creations to level of "mere" scientific inventions.

Who tried to relegate creation to scientific inventions?. . .

justcool:
LOL @ thehomer and Mazaje

I don’t need to reply your last posts. Your posts speak for themselves!! Be honest enough and admit that you are attacking God, the non-physical, and believer; just stop using science as tool for your attack because in so doing you make a mockery of science.

You don't need to reply to it because the truth is you don't know what you are saying. . . .You have absolutely no evidence to back up any of the claims you are making out of thin air. . .I repeat, your evidence to show that the universe was created by a male entity who interacts with humans , wants to be worshiped and speaks the human language is WHAT?. . . .I really don't deal with baseless assumptions and myths. . . .If the universe was created, how do you know that the creator is one and not many creators? Do you have any evidence for this assumption of yours?. .You see, you don't know anything, you are just parroting baseless assumptions that are completely bogus, you don't have any evidence for what you are saying. . .You are simply lying to yourself with the claim of some special knowledge. . .

I am not on Davidylan's side but I haven’t seen him talk down on science the way you guys do on religionists and their beliefs. He never attacked science as a whole; he attacked some scientific hypothesis and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. There are many scientists that don’t believe in evolution too. The fact that he doesn’t believe in evolution doesn’t make him a science hater.

Read his post, not just evolution but astronomy and other field of science that does not agree with his deeply held mythical beliefs. . .

But even if he does, science is supposed to be a field of knowledge not a personal God. You get offended when somebody attacks your god(science) the same as a religionist gets offended when somebody attacks his personal. What then makes you different from a religionist? In so doing you clearly show that you are not scientist. You are just a religionists trying to degrade science into a religion.

Science is not my god, I can't angry when some one attacks science. . . Its overwhelming contributions to humanity is there for all to see. . .Science is not a religion. . . .It is just a field of knowledge. . .I accept some of its position and discard some of it. . .Those that follow my post know my position. . .All I know is that science has contributed more to humanity than any God or religion. . . .And that's the fact. . .

You guys said some very funny things! The modern science which was born yesterday had been preserving the pyramids which had stood for thousands of years? Wow!! Talk about anachronisim! Somebody made mention of electricity. Well, it might interest you to know that the ancients discovered electricity. Find out the Egyptians lighted the inside of the pyramids. The other talked about communicating from side of the glob to another via internet. It might interest you to know that the ancients did such communications and went even further! Please tell me how the ancient cultures were able to align their temples with the stars far far away from the globe?

First of all the pyramids were build by humans USING the principles of science. .  .Which religious principle did they use in building the pyramids?. . .They did not use any religious or supernatural principle to build the pyramid. . . .They used the principle of science to build them not religion, NO god helped them in the building of the pyramids, so i really do not understand what you are talking about. . . . .Ohh, so the ancients communicated with each other across continent's, eh,  . Interesting. . . .What medium did they use for such communications?. . .Electricity as we know it was NOT founded by the ancient Egyptians. . .They didn't use the light bulb to light the pyramids. . .Assuming they did as you are saying, science is what they relied on to power the Tombs and pyramids, and not religion or any God. . . .Align temple with stars?. . .Which religious principle did they use in achieving that feat?. . .  

It is the desire for God, for the supernatural that gave birth all forms of development even science, if you claim you cannot see the connection, I will not spoon-feed it to you.

You keep making claims without substantiating them. . . .The desire for God that helped in the development of the car or the submarine is what?. . . .

While would I different which god did what to you guys. You guys simply attack religionist, those who believe in the supernatural; those who you call deluded fools. And I showed the great feats that they achieved, now you want me to tell you which god did what. Does it matter? Didn’t you claim that no gods exist?

They did not achieve any feat because of any God or religion. . .Which religious principle was used in building the pyramids. . .Which religious principle was used in binding the walls together. . . .or laying the foundation for the pyramids?. . .

If somebody asks “what’s the science behind an airplane flying?” You tell him is ‘may’ or ‘might’. Or ‘might not’. This is hilarious!!!!!!!!!

Your running away from people who want harm you; and your coming here to bash God because of that is simply cowardice.  This is your personal problem which has nothing to do with God or science. I know a lot of atheists in Nigeria living comfortably among the people.

Leave science alone or at least get the basics before trying to use it as a tool.

False many atheist here have talked about the prosecution they face from friends and family because of their position. . .You talk about God as if there is one God. . .There are many Gods and you are yet to establish which one of them created the universe. . .You are yet to establish that your version of God whom I believe is male created the Universe and not some female Indian Hindu Goddess. . . . .

justcool:
I couldn’t let the bolded part slide by. It is statements like this that convinces me that you guys are out to fight God or religion not necessarily because of science. Why do you guys fight “the allegedly non-existent God” so hard to the extent that you throw anything at Him and His believers?

When did any God appear to you personally and told you that it has a gender and his gender is male? When did that happen?I don't have time for your BASELESS speculations about an imaginary construct that has NO evidence for his/her. Your evidence to show that the universe was created by one entity that is male and wants to be worshiped by Homo sapiens ? As for believers I just as them simple question because I notice they are always defining their various Gods in such a way that they eliminate their own potential defeaters to the "no evidence" argument.

Are you sure that you are not trying to quite or deaden a certainty within you; this may very well be the case since I don’t see you wasting so much time fighting Santa clause and the tooth fairy or disputing their existence.

Lack of belief in Santa Claus does NOT affect my life personally in any way. . . .One of the reasons that I can't visit Nigeria is because I am an atheist and weather you believe it or not some people believe that I deserve to be harmed in Nigeria for being an atheist, some Christians here have even threatened me with violence here on nairaland for being an atheist and that is a well known fact. . .No believer in Santa Claus has ever looked down on me or treated me badly for not believing in Santa. Generally I can see my country Nigeria dying because of religion and some of the silly beliefs it inculcates in people. Religion is like racism cos it segregates people.

Also I notice that the religionists, (Davidylan for example) do not insult science or regard it as myths. He respects science but only argues that the notion of the universe not having a creator is not even good science. This is being gentlemanly, educated and gracious. But you guys give no credence to religion or believers or God. You easily call them gullible dreamers, and their ideas delusions.

This statement of yours is FALSE, Davidylan is always fond of calling well established scientific facts that go against his religious beliefs myths and nonsense. . .

But keep in mind that the greatest of human achievements all have only thing behind it – the desire for God. Almost in all cultures, the most sophisticated and longest-living achievements all have one thing in common – the desire for this supposedly non-existent God. Look at the ancient temples(from the Incas to the Egyptians) Look at the pyramids.

This statement is very False. . . .How has the desire for God helped man in building the airplane ,finding cure for diseases or discovering electricity? When the religious authorities were holding power and hearing from God in the past what were they commanding people to do? Kill unbelievers and sacrifice them as burnt offering to their various Gods, no? How have the Pyramids of Egypt helped humanity compared to say the mobile phone a human achievement has saved lives and has contributed to humans greatly? Apart from wars and segregation what exactly has religion contributed to humans compared to science and the scientific process? Read the bible or the Koran and tell me how it has helped man to achieve anything great. Books that tend to rubbish the human knowledge and cast aspersion on it. Even to day the best societies are the secular societies NOT the religious societies. . .How has religion helped people solve their problems?. . . .By telling them to pray and trust in some imaginary friend to come and helped them,no?

Science itself was born out of the desire for God. The desire to learn about nature so as to know the creator better. This is what gave birth to all fields of knowledge,-- from philosophy to science.

Another false statement. . .Name one scientific theory or law that talks about God?. . . .Which scientific statement talks about the universe having a creator? Pls your evidence that the universe was created by one entity is WHAT?. . . .Scientific knowledge came about as a result of inquiry into how the NATURAL world functions, God/Gods belong to the so called supernatural realm and as such have nothing to do with science. . . .

[quote[b]]Looking at history one can only conclude that it is the desire for God or the desire for the supernatural that brings out the best in humans.[/b] It drives even to feats of such unimaginable greatness. The ancient religionists (who you easily call fools) built structures thousands of years ago, structures the most knowledgeable scientists today cannot rebuild. Look at Egypt, Look at Athens, Look at Rome, and Look at Jerusalem. What do you see?

[/quote]Really?. . .Have you ever read the bible or the Koran? Half of the bible is all about violence, from slavery to genocide all in the name of God, I don't have to talk about the Koran because we can see what Muslims are doing today because of their religious beliefs. . .When I look at ancient Rome I see Ignorant savages and the monuments they built. . . .Look at their cities, they had very high walls, You dare NOT venture out of the city walls alone, if you get caught by another tribe you will be enslaved or killed. . .Modern day scientist are into solving problems that affect humans not building Pyramids and high walls that are of no use to humanity. . . .Of what use are the ancient walls to humanity?. . . .Now we look at the Pyramids and laugh at the foolish beliefs the ancient Egyptians have about the after life, no?. . . .Can you compare the computer and how it has helped humanity develop with the pyramids?. . .I laugh in ancient Greek. . . .

[quote]It is these same religious fools who had run the world for years without annihilating it. Yet today, in the face of your almighty science, the world faces the greatest danger of annihilation. Dude are you kidding me!!!??

Let me tell you something, despite the fact that we have deadly weapons like the nuclear weapon, the world today is much less voilent as it was duing the time of Moses assuming the stories in the bible are true. . . .Pls read the old testament and see how violent they people are, they believed that their  own disobedient children needed to be stoned to death. . . .They believed that their neighbors that worshiped other Gods deserved to be annihilated completely or enslaved permanently and they wrote about it and said they got their injunctions from their God. . .Read the Koran. . . . .When Europe was under the Church some people refer it as the dark ages. . . .Scientific knowledge came with enlightenment. . . .

The greatest literatures that have always existed did not spring from science but from religion or the desire for God. The greatest art works and etc. Dude look around you before talking!!!! It was these deluded fools that wrote book that have helped humanity survive for years. Look at the Bible! Look at the Koran!

How has the bible or the Koran helped humans survive for years? Many people around the world have been surviving without the bible and the Koran, no? Before those books came into existence millions have lived and survived, no?. . . .The Christians that murdered millions  in the past as a religious duty and the Muslims that are still murdering people today in the name of Allah are getting their inspirations from where?. . . .The greatest books that have helped humanity to solve its  problems are the physics, chemistry, biology, mathematical, economics and history text books, not some crazy religious books with bogus stories that only encourage segregation and nothing else. . .

The words spoken by Jesus (a believer in God) had affected mankind, and have changed the history of mankind, in a far more profound way than all the modern scientific discoveries put together.

Really?. . . .How has the words that were spoken by Jesus helped humanity in any way? The words spoken by Jesus that helped to cure diseases or help humans to better understand the the cosmos or improve efficiency is WHAT?. . . .What did Jesus say that others before him have not said both believers and unbelievers alike?. .  .How have the words of Jesus helped in man in solving drought problems or help man to improve fertility?. . . .

All the laws of every country in the world today have only thing in common—they all sprang from man’s desire for God. Actually it is this desire that gave birth to civilization.

Really? Laws were made to enhance order in the society, modern societal laws in advance societies like g[i]a[/i]y rights and equality of the sexes are against some religious laws, no?. . . .Modern laws have nothing to do with God. . .

Granted there has been atrocities committed too due to this desire, but the good that came from it far outweigh the atrocities; as one can easily see today that everything good in the world today sprang from this desire.

What are the good things if I may ask. . . You have failed to list any. . .

Compared to religion, modern science has not achieved anything!!!  Dude look around you!

Science is what gives you the life you live today and  makes your life much more easy , from the technology that allows you to read this post, to the electricity that allows you to iron your shirt and to the car you drive, to the airplane that is going to take me to another continent tomorrow to the medicines that keep you healthy and have given humans longer life, even to the way your food is produced, processed and preserved to the space telescope that has helped us know much more about the universe, . Man has used science  to tame animals, to increase his efficiency, improve and increase fertility , cure mental illness and help him solve his problems. . . So think twice before you knock the scientific fraternity  I repeat imperfect it might be, but in the short time relative to human history it has existed, it has done infinitely more for mankind than God or religion has. Name one thing that religion has done for humanity that benefits all humans like electricity a product of science. . . .Name one product of religion that has helped humanity the way the computer has helped humanity. . . .

If only you guys would at least show some respect to believers and their beliefs, the same respect that Davidylan shows science, then you would appear less ridiculous, less emotional, and more educated than you do now.

You do not know what you are talking about if you say davidylan respects science. . . .He only respects the science that agrees with his religious myths else the well established scientific facts are myths as far as he is concerned. . .

You guys appear only as religious attackers or anti-believers not scientists, since you  are more eager to attack religionists and call them dreamers than to back your argument with good science.

Thanks

You are just jumping every where without even making any sense at all. . . .

ITISTRUE:
d. [size=18pt]Some Muslims have tried to go from "Amen" to "Ahmed" to "Mohammed!" Such nonsense is beyond belief[/size].

I laugh tire so tey I wan die for here. . . . . .What baffles me the most is that Muslims truly believe that Jesus and all the prophets the bible talks about were Muslims. How deluded can one be?. . . .These guys are really crazy. . . . .

Sweetnecta:
i do live in the west. probably longer than you. i know grand parents, parents and children all born into Islam. in fact a nigerian lawyer married a wife whose fater and mother are reverts. their own parent that were alive after their reversion became muslims later. the nigerian lawyer is a father by this wife. the west is littered with muslim and the trend is going stronger. know many nigerians of igbo blood in the 'west' that are muslims; washing dc, philadephia, new york city. what more is a proof against your lie?

I presented a research that was made by a Muslim scholar and professor Prof. Llyas Ba Yunus and you are here giving me some baseless and crazy Sweetnecta stories about your friends and their families?. . . .What am I to do with your stories?. . . .

wordtalk:
^^ what is the atheistic argument for the universe?

Does atheism have any arguments for the universe? It doesn't. . . .Atheism is simply a lack of belief in the existence of God/Gods. As for the existence of the universe atheists like any group of people have various beliefs and arguments, which range from I don't know(I belong to this group) to those that follow the scientific explanations. Since atheist do not believe in the God/Gods that men worship they do not believe that any of them created the universe. . . .

wordtalk:
Please tell me: what is the atheistic argument?

That Gods (Allah, Yahweh, Buddha, Sango, Betu, Zeus, Rhama etc  ) the thousands of them that are worshiped by people both in the present and in the past do NOT exist. . . . .They are simply a creation of men.

wordtalk:
When the typical atheistic argument is to begin with nothing and magically bring about everything 'tentatively', does that begin to make any sense to you? It probably does - because there are far more gaps to fill in atheistic arguments than they can explain to themselves.

Which atheistic argument states that everything came from nothing?. . .

justcool:
@thehomer and co.

Please stop killing science. You guys make science a guessing game. Science does not deal with "May," "might," and etc. Be honest or informed enough to know that when the word "may or Might" is attached to a theory, that theory is not yet science. At best you might say that it is a scientific speculation. Yet a speculation is a speculation; it carries no more weight than other speculations.

Science deals with might, may and may not. . . . . .Probability is an intrinsic part of science. . . . .This is what allows science to grow and for theories to be modified and updated. . . . .Science isn't exact, or perfect, it doesn't have all the answers, and some interpretations of evidence can turn out to be wrong in time, as more data is gathered and a bigger picture emerges, but, for the most part, scientists do try and stick to the facts, in as much as they have them. imperfect it might be, but in the short time relative to human history it has existed, it has done infinitely more for mankind than God or religion has . . . . .

Please show me any scientific laws or theories that say "may." Science deals with the exact. Please consider this statement: "A body at motion May or 'May not' remain in motion unless it is acted upon by an external force" Does this sound scientific?

A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. Basically, if evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, then the hypothesis can become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. One definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis. As aforementioned probability is an intrinsic part of the scientific process. . . .  

If only enthusiast will leave science alone! Today, in their quest to fight the religious they make a mockery of science. A few decades ago there was a scientific speculation that the universe ‘might’ not require a beginning. Hardly did scientists make this speculation than enthusiast picked and used it to fight the religionists who believed that the universe was created and hence had a beginning. Today we know that the universe had a beginning, the big slam. It’s as if science is confused, they say one thing today and another tomorrow. But the fault does not lie with science, the fault lies with enthusiast who would pick up every stone of scientific speculation and throw it at the religionist as facts.

The big b.ang does not establish that "the universe had a beginning". t. What it states is that the cosmos - our four-dimensional space-time, if you will - can be traced back to a cosmic singularity. One might thereby assume that said cosmic singularity represents "the beginning", but I would have to note here that this is an assumption on your part: the fact of the matter is that we simply do not know if that really was the "beginning", or whether there exists some as-yet-undiscovered mechanism that generates cosmic singularities, some or all of which then go on to become "universes". The singularity is not a beginning in the normal sense, but rather places the limit on what we can deduce from observation The cosmic singularity represents an event horizon beyond which physics cannot readily penetrate; it does not necessarily entail "the beginning". A "beginning", perhaps, but the beginning? Not established.

Please let’s separate science from personal views and any form of speculation.


Thanks.

I saw you trying to inject some obscured an vague God as well in your post, no?. . . . Is there any EVIDENCE for a supernatural creator controlling things? The answer is NO. There's no evidence that a supernatural creator controls chemical reactions, and there's no evidence a supernatural creator generated the singularity. So there's no point in considering it. There is NO name or signature of any of the Gods that men worship any where in the universe, all we have are mindless forces acting on their own in haphazard  or predictable forms most of the time.

Unknown causes are simply unknown causes. Up until now, science has demonstrated itself the best method we have for elucidating previously unknown causes, so science will be what is used to investigate the causes of the singularity which science itself discovered. NO God or religion has any explanation for the singularity and non will. . . .Science discovered the singularity and only science can explain it further.

The discovery of the big b.ang by science as all new scientific discoveries at once both answers many past questions, and presents new questions and gaps. Some religious people stand ever ready to insert their Gods into all newly discovered gaps. It's the same game over and over. . . . .

vedaxcool:
[size=16pt]
But you have strong jealousy to  Islam[/size]

Which is
[size=18pt]is a complete way of life

a hope for hopeless

a freedom from Idolatry

A refutation to dishonesty

The Truth that I know

a rebuke to wickedness

a triumph over darkness

Allah's religion for mankind.[/size]

This one just keeps throwing funny words around. . . . .

Nobody has ever converted to Islam here and nobody will ever convert to Islam here. . . .In reality most of the people that convert to Islam in the west mostly leave the religion after some time(as many as 75% according to a research conducted my a Muslim scholar called Prof. Llyas Ba Yunus) cos they are unable to continue living their lives according to the writings and culture of the 7th century Arab tribes men. . .

vedaxcool:
Well the postings in the thread speak the truth more than u

ohh really?. . .Last time I checked all I could see you doing was lying and trying you best to mix things up. . . .

That never addressed any of the isssues , well being a mediocre we should not expect less

Ohh really. . . .

which was far from what I was talking about, rephrasing your response, no problem, but since you are hell bent on asserting your ignorance, I read in the Qur'an that to Allah are the best of Names, indeed the word for God were different varied from one ethnicity to another. But still the fundamental teachings has remain the same, that is to impact good moral values on different people and give guidiance to them, but we consider that over time such religion became polluted with wrong concepts.

Where can the words of Allah be found in the Hindu Verde, or the Baddavigts? You lie yet again when you say the fundamental teachings remain the same. . .The fundamental teachings if Hinduism and Buddhism for example are completely different from the teachings of Islam, they have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Try another lie please. . . . .These two religions predate Islam by thousands of years. . . .There is nothing that joins Islam with the religion being practiced by the ancient Americans for example so trying to force your way by saying what is not is lying. . . .Hope you get that. . . .

Firstly I  have seen Qur'an in Yoruba and Hausa language and even i attended a Jumuat service in which money was being raised to translate the Qur'an into Igbo It is common sense that if to understand Qur'an in some aspect there could translation problem there must be a reason why Allah gave man brain to think and solve his problems, like, like i said being a Muslim is not enough but seeking knowledge remains mandatory in islam, The mediocre asked why do we pray in our local dialects, such mediocre thinking can only be from mazaje, We follow the way the prophet prayed, and his form of praying will in humility follow, there is already a structure to praying and such has fostered unity amongst Muslims, that is why we can all go to any country and find the same verses we all heard being used in any country we go to.

Firstly, a Koran in Yoruba is not considered to be a Koran, I have stated that once it has been translated it is no longer considered a Koran, but just an interpretation of the text. . .So there is unity amongst Muslims, eh? Here is the original question,you did not even attempt to answer it, you just ran off on another tangent. . . .Now to the Koran itself, a book like any other which has lots of claims like people not being able to produce any book like it . What exactly is in the Koran that is not in any book, any exclusive knowledge of the world or idea therein that can not be found in other books? Why is a book that is supposed to be for all humanity revealed in an ancient tongue spoken by just a fraction of the population? If Allah is all powerfull sure he could have revealed the Koran in such a way as to make any translation of it perfect for Allah is supposedly all powerful.
By the way there is nothing miraculous about it as Muslims love bandying. Imagine for a second that even people who spoke not a work of Arabic could read it and understand perfectly well in that language? Wouldn't every body say "Hmm, there is something unusual and miraculous about t the book".

You apparently have ran out of words and still insist on restating the same questions, quibbling over meaning of what I wrote is clownish don't you think? and the this is also a fact Today Islam is virtually known everywhere and it is Miraculous that this was "achieved" by an "obscure" desert tribe, more importantly, as i have indicated earlier, Allah's Judgement on Individual who never heard of Islam will definitely be based on Criteria that he alone knows, but a principle in Islam makes Ignorance a defence, that is one's ignorance of Islam does not make culpable for not being a Muslim, but for people like mazaje and co, who despite have enough resource to study and understand the Qur'an and Islam, will be held accountable, This is simply repeating the same mediocre question in a different way,[b] like I indicated Allah had provided guidance to all of Humanity.  The chief reason your questions are mediocre is because they lack logical coherence. It is left to every individual to investigate and unearth the truth, not just sitting down and puffing marijuana.

Another meaningless talk. . .Islam is not known every where. A large percentage of the people alive today have never heard about the name Islam, Allah or Mohammed. . . .Secondly, Christianity also began by a small desert tribe yet today it has more adherent than Islam. . . .Buddhism and Hinduism also began by very tiny tribes from Asia but also have more followers than Islam when combined together. . .So what exactly are you talking about?. . . Stop talking about truth because you don't know any truth and there is no truth to be found in Islam, there is just enough "truth" to be found in Islam just like any other religion out there. . . . .Who cares about what Islam says about the non existent after life?. . . . .

The Catholic Position
The Church’s relationship with Muslims. The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 841, quoting Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964).

Entering a mosque does not pose a problem, since Islam is based on a belief in the one-and-only G-d
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/276,2400/Am-I-allowed-to-enter-a-church-or-mosque.html.

I can see that you have clearly run out of gas. . .This is just the political correct position of the Catholic institution and not the position of the bible which is the ultimate according to the Christian belief. . .What does the bible say? According to the bible Jesus said that, those who do not believe in him alone are condemned already, and he also said he is the way the truth and the life and no body can have eternal life except through him. . .According to the bible he is the ONLY savior of mankind. Christians believe the bible to be the word of God not the position of the Catholic church. . . .Show me where Allah appears in the bible. . . .The name of the God of the bible is Jehovah Yahweh NOT Allah. . . .Stop lying. . .The God of the bible is NOT the God of the Koran. . .God tell a Jew that you as a Muslim worship the same God with him and see how he will spit on your face. . .

Mediocre thinking produces Mediocre writing

Asking the same question, pathetic indeed let me repeat my earlier response

Again , you showed mediocre complex, as The Sunni and Shia divide did not start immediately after the death of the prophet pbuh, but on the death of the Caliph Uthman, circumstances surrounding his death created the Sunni and Shia divide, As Abubakar the 1st caliph was accepted by the vast majority of the Prophets companion who ratified the caliphacy, some companions did feel Ali should be the caliph, but at the end, the Prophet not making Any one his successor, meant he left it to his competent Companions to solve their readership issues and indicates that he did not want to impose anyone on the Ummah. And from all indication the companions did their best which lead to the expansion of islam to vast tracts of lands.

Where is Allah to end the Shia vs Sunni divide?

careytommy:
is there any point in quoting yourselves since for now only are keenly exchanging ideas
BTW: no matter the findings any expert put forwards, some people (moi inclusive) will still believe everything the bible says
maybe they should tell how impossible the virgin birth is

Really?. . . . .Do you believe that Mohammed the prophet of Islam once divided the moon into two?. . . .If you do tell us why you do and if you don't you can also tell us why you don't believe it happened. . . .Thank you. . .

Martian:
I think most can't fathom that the very basis of their existence is based on lies that have been assumed to be absolute truths since they were children. The existential crisis that will accompany an acknowledgment of the non existence of god will probably drive some berserk. J[b]ust imagine Vedaxcool and Sweetnecta without their delusions or Frosbel and enigma[/b] without the fuzzy feelings of "eternal life".

It's probably better that they are devout. Now if we can just get them to keep their ideologies from causing needless chaos directly and indirectly every single day.

You won't believe it, but I was once very much like them. . . .

eldee:
Are you silly?? Is this anywhere near the Jos riots or the Maiduguri ethnic cleansing early this year??
Wasn't there looting in that too?? Why am I even wasting my time replying this. . . bleep this!!!

I wonder if he has ever witnessed any crisis in Nigeria. . . . . .