₦airaland Forum

davidylan:
dont mind the fellow. Millions of scientists disagree with evolution as well and very few care enough to go writing in nature to debunk evolutionary claims. So because i dont agree that the sky is blue on a public forum i should go write a paper in science journal? Like sexkillz said, has he taken his own advice? Of course not.

How obtuse.

Not true, evolution is main stream science. . .Its one thing to disagree and another thing entirely to show that something is false. . .The fact that they disagree with the theory does not mean its false. . .Any scientist that disagrees with the theory and knows how to falsify it will very quickly do so because he/she knows that he stands to gain a lot. . .He will will a Nobel peace price among many other things. . .Science has a way that it works, if you claim to be a scientist and you TRULY know that a theory or hypothesis is false, then you are supposed to go ahead and show that its false. . .That is how science works. . .

sexkillz:
So why tha HELL do ATHEISTS INSIST on Bringing in POINTS from SCIENCE whenever they are trying, to REFUTE RELIGION? Cant you guys use your own ARGUMENTS for ONCE? NO?

Because science has disproved many Gods and religious assertions and it will continue to do so. . .Humans have always invented Gods or other invisible entities and supernatural explanations to explain that which they don't understand.  But then science comes along and tells them to stop sacrificing virgins to please some imaginary fertility Gods, science has shown people that there are no weather Gods that need pleasing, and we can do better by using irrigation and planting weather resistant crops instead of wasting time sacrificing animals to please the weather Gods. . .When sick science has provided us with drugs to cure and help us out instead of praying to some Gods for healing or sprinkling the bloods of some animals on sick people to heal them. . . Science has provided the best explanations for most things. . .The rainbow use to be explained as a necklace of some Goddess or a covenant between some Jewish tribal God and  his chosen people, but science came along and showed that its simply a refraction of light waves in the earth's atmosphere. . .Where are the Gods of thunder and lighting? Once the scientific explanation was provided for these two phenomenon the Gods of thunder and lighting all died natural deaths , no?. . . .Our ignorance is God, what we know is science. . . .

davidylan:
You cant have it both ways. If you dont know the origin of life how they can you beat your chest and say you are certain that the bible is mythology? you cant be sure now can you?

I might not be able to know that materials that are used in making a 10 dollar note but I surely know that it is not completely made up of diamond. . .The biblical origin of was written by ancient humans who do NOT know what they are talking about, the stories were just made out of thin air and as such the stories HAVE NO evidence what ever it back it up, and their stories have been shown to be FALSE. . . . Christians themselves are now relegating the creation accounts in the bible to the realm of allegory. . .The biblical creation story is no better than any other creation story out there. . .I wonder why you discard all the others and hold unto that of the bible when all are the same i.e assumptions of ancient men who do not know anything that they were saying. . . .

sexkillz:
And with all your rantings about religion, HOW MANY ACCOLADES have you won? Why dont you take your OWN ADVICE and write a publication discrediting religion, with all the points you claim you have and let's see how it will go. . . If YOU TRULY know your ONIONS, you'll be able to do that, NO?. . . . . PATHETIC!

Religion and science work differently. . .If an establish theory is false or falsifiable, all you need to do as a scientist  is point it out to others. That is how science works. . .It's laws and theories are universally accepted and can be challenged or falsified openly. That is not true for religion because even members of the same religion disagree vehemently on the basic nature of their God and what scripture says. what is there to falsify when everything abut religion is based on faith?. . . According to Ron Ashley science adjust it's views based on what is observed while faith is the denial of observation, so that beliefs can be preserved. . . .Religion does NOT tolerate opposing views. We are only able to post here freely because the owner of nairaland is an atheist. . .If he were a christian or muslim most of us would have been banned. . .

OLAADEGBU:
Yes.  And kudos to davdylan for exposing those pseudo-scientists.  

Look who is talking. . .pseudo-scientists, eh. . . Imagine some one that goes about posting BASELESS "scientific"  evidence to show that the earth and the universe were created 6000 years ago, or that the entire earth was covered in a flood calling others  pseudo-scientists. . .  

Enigma:
^^^ Once somebody who knows his/her stuff stands up to them, they are soon exposed for what they truly are. Look at Dawkins and co running away all over the place from debating Craig --- much to the dismay of many of Dawkins' own supporters.

Are you kidding me? If davidylan TRULY knows his stuff about all what he is saying i.e evolution is false then he will win a Nobel peace price. . .Evolution is a theory that has NOT been falsified according to scientist. I want him to put his money where is mouth is, take up the challenge and write a publication on any scientific journal discrediting evolution with all the point he claims he has and lets see how it will go. . .If he TRULY knows his onions he will be able to do this, no?. . .As for debating Craig, you are quick to parrot William Craig but I bet you won't tell people that William Craig has openly stated that he does NOT believe in the creation accounts in genesis he believes it to be an allegory and non factual. . .He believes that the big b[i]a[/i]ng is true but according to him God created the big b[i]a[/i]ng. . . .He is wise enough to discard the myth written in the bible which scientific observation has shown to be FALSE. . .How can you debate someone that doesn't agree on what his holy book says?. . .What then is the basis for the debate?

davidylan:
have thehomer and mazaje answered sexkillz's questions? They would rather come here where they can continue their tradition of "asking questions". 

Sexkillz asked if I know what the origin of life is and my simple answer is I don't know. . .The FACT is neither I, you or sexkillz  knows the origin of life, the thing I will not do is accept the BASELESS opinions and mythology of men that has no evidence or reality to back it up but needs the faith cake. . .

At OP, consequences for actions are things that no one ever talks about today. We just expect some magic fairy to come and make everything all good leaving us with no sense of responsibility.

Actually according to the magical fairy tale you believe in and advocate,things are supposed to be good if only people believe in your version of fairy tale, no?. . .The question OP's question remains is your God as portrayed in the bible  merciful and God? The answer is NO. . .He is not. . .A simple look at the OT says your God is even worse than the Allah you love to hate. . . At least Allah did not command people to kill others including innocent babies and sacrifice them as a burnt offering unto him. . .

frosbel:
When I criticize extremist Islam, I may very well be accused of being a "hater," as if telling people about basic extremist Islamic doctrines means you advocate hatred toward Muslims as the solution. And nobody likes a hater, or wants to be one. 

Nothing wrong in criticizing extremist Islam. . .It surely needs to be criticized . . . . . .

Hatred is not the answer. If anything, I am anti-hatred. That's why I am trying to expose Islamic teachings: Shari'a law includes a system of legally-mandated hatred.

The same can be said of christianity, people have used the bible to justify hate, murder, slavery, looting,racism etc. . . .The new testament says he that does not believe is condemned already, so a lot of christains see non christians as condemned goods and treat them as such. . . .The bible you talk about is NOT much better than the Koran. You have Jesus telling people to HATE father, mother , family, friends, etc if they truly want to follow him. . .So the bible also teaches and preaches hate. . . .

Muhammad is their model, and he expressed hatred toward non-Muslims. He maligned them, robbed them, tortured them, killed them, violated them, and took them as slaves. Muslims are supposed to follow his example. It says so in the Qur'an over seventy times.

You have no legs to stand here, the greatest prophets in your bible did worse than Mohammed. . . .There is no where you will find Mohammed killing women and children, half of your bible is filled with prophets killing innocent women and children through the divine injunction of your God. . .Moses, Joshua, Jehu, Ezekiel, David etc did worse crime that Mohammed, they committed genocide and ethnic cleansing, r[i]a[/i]pe women, looted and enslaved other people etc according to the stories, yet the remain the best people and friends of your God according to the bible. . . .The best of your prophets and men of God in the bible were worse than Mohammed and that is the FACT. . . .Even your God the OT is worse than Allah. . .

I'm talking about the teachings, not the people. Some Muslims follow the teachings, and some are Muslim in name only.

If you follow half of the teachings of the bible you will be in prison, no? Remember that Jesus did not condemn anything, he said he came not to condemn them but fulfill them. . .By the way the bible says your God never changes and his ways never changes as well. . .He remains the same forever. . .

But non-Muslims need to know about the teachings, because many of the most fundamental Islamic teachings are about how to deal with non-Muslims. According to the teachings, we must be subjugated under Islamic law. All of us.

True. . .Non muslims need to know that. . .Islam like Christianity has contradictory teachings, in one place it says that there is no compulsion in religion and people are supposed to do worship what ever they like, in another part it talks about Allah disliking the unbelievers. . . .There are teachings in the bible that also encourages those that do not believe in the God of the bible to be killed,enslaved and treated badly. .

Voluntarily or by force. And the tens of millions or hundreds of millions who follow Islamic doctrine to the letter are actively working toward that end. They have gained control over how Islam is taught in their schoolbooks.

Devoted followers have set up organizations in the United States and other Western democracies with the express purpose of undermining those democracies from within. We need to know about this stuff. It is affecting us already here in Nigeria !

If I say the teachings of communism advocate ending economic inequalities, does that make me a hatemonger? If I say Republicans advocate smaller government, does that make me a hater? If I say Buddhists believe in reincarnation, does that make me a hater?

As long as you fail to accept that your own religion is not better,then you have no right telling muslims what to do or accept. . .I have seen you on many threads justifying all the murders and senseless killings in the bible as GOOD because they appear in the bible. . .Why then do you turn around and point to the muslims saying they fail to admit that their religion encourages violence when half of your bible is filled with violence and violent acts carried out by your God and his chosen men?. . .

But if I say the teachings of Islam advocate striving to institute worldwide Shari'a law, that makes me a hatemonger? That doesn't make any sense. Where did you come up with that 

edited article

It doesn't. . . .But your own religion is not really better than theirs when looked at critically. . .The bible is there for all to read. . .Muslims are more honest in accepting what is written in the holy book than the christains. . .

djustice:
Frosbel is right.

If you study the Quran well, you will discover that it advocates the killing and subjugation of Non-Muslims.

Same with the bible, it also advocates the killing of those that worship other Gods other than Yahweh. . .In the bible it even goes further than the Koran in saying that they should be killed and sacrificed as burnt offering to Yahweh. . . .Religions are like farts. . . Yours is good, but everyone else's stinks.

wordtalk:
@mazaje, please don't be upset. True, 'open rebuke is better than secret love' and it was very bad of me to not have said hello. Please forgive me. Hope you're doing great.

Nothing do you man. . .Am cool. . . .Nice to have you around once again. . .

Viaro my man. . .Welcome back. . . .We were together on another thread going against those crazy muslims and you didn't even bother to say hi. . .That's bad of you. . .Anyway nice to have you around and am happy your survived. . .Best wishes. . .

frosbel:
There is a consequence for every action.

Sure. . . .

The combined action of selfish, greedy, hateful and godless people is the main cause of human suffering.

Ok. . .lets see how the people that love and obey your God acted in the bible. . . .

Lets see how your merciful and loving God told his chosen people to unleash evil and suffering unto others. . .

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7)

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10)

While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9)

Here we have your God telling people to kill others and sacrifice them as burnt offering unto him. . . .We have your God telling people to kill others because they worship other Gods. . . How is your God better than Allah? Read the koran you will never see Allah telling people to kill innocent women and children but what do we have in the bible? We have your God telling people to kill innocent children. . . . Yet you will still open your mouth and say that such a God is merciful. . .Merciful means treating people better than they deserve. . . .Your God is not merciful, he is even worse that the Allah you love to hate. . .

GOD has tried to guide people in the right direction even sending his own son to die for their sins , and yet they remain hardened ingrates and remain lost in their pitiful condition.

Read the bible half of it is filled with violence and blood shed and most of the killings and evil were commanded by your God, so what the hell are you talking about?

Truly sad !!

Truly sad that you worship such a deity and say that he is merciful or good. . ,

abubello:
frosbell, wordtalk etc,  kindly address the real issue: that you don't worship God in the same manner Jesus and other prophets of God did. If you worship God differently from Abraham , Moses , Jesus, Joshua etc certainly you need to explain why.  Address the isssue please and stop derailing the thread

Where in the bible does it say that the people you mentioned worshiped their God the same way the muslims do? Where  does the word Allah appear in the bible and which among the people you mentioned says Allahu akbar when praying to their God?. . .Some Hindus and Buddhist also bow down while praying to their own Gods, so what exactly are you saying?. . . .

Even though I find it completely ridiculous that muslims hold such beliefs, christians need to understand that muslims come into the argument with the very strong belief that the Koran is the word of Allah and is completely true. . . .Since it is written in the Koran then they believe it must be true. . . .

Stalkers. . ."Honey where are you", "Baby who is there with you", "Baby why aren't you saying you love me is someone with you", "Baby its 10pm and you aren't at home, where are you"?. . . .Men hate stalkers. . .

toba:
u may be right however one may also be right to[b] apply logic based on the help of the holy spirit[/b] from what have been read in the bible

Is it the same holy spirit that is sending different messages to you and Pator Kun there by making ou guys to interprete the bible differently?. . .

Abujabir24:
Dis is a lie, its an outrageous accusation. I mean dis sect will neva steal money bcuz dey its a sin in islam, i hav their contact and i sent them an email asking about d recent strikes dat has been going on wich dey replied me by saying dey aint d 1 behind d attacks becuz we re in d holy month, dey told me d last time dey attakd was wen dey destroyd d bear parlour. I dnt tink dis people wil lie 2 me. So dis is pure allegation, all i can say is dat dis attak was done by enemies of islam and wil make it as if its bh dat did it so other muslims wil strt hating their brodas, dis wil lead to fyt b/w muslims. And d people i refer 2 as enemies are C.A.N or AKWOT AKWAP d devilish group.

You are a foooool. . . . . The devilish group is boko haram and its members. I know you belong to the group so you remain a big foooooool. . .

davidylan:
And these are your examples of the "staunchest" defenders of evolution? Really? These guys are better known than Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawkins and co?

They like Dawkins and Hawkings have books and run websites that promote evolution. . .One of the books used in the US high schools for evolution was written by Ken Miller he remains one of the most famous evolutionary biologist in the US today. . . .

Get real dude. You cant even get historical facts on Ken Miller right yet you just keep plowing away with your misinformed comments.

There is no misinformed comment here, Ken Millier is a very staunch advocate of evolution, he was a witness at the trial and he helped debunk the arguments of intelligent design movement. . .David Livingstone is another staunch advocate of evolution. . .He has written books and holds lectures  promoting Darwinian evolution. . .

This clearly foolish comment should be better left as is.  Clearly you believe the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence. A serious scientific fallacy if there is one.
Next you'll tell us volcanoes are proof satan doesnt exist right . . . afterall if he did the hot lava should have burnt him abi?  Oh boy!

Firstly we were told that God lives in the sky and was afraid of people getting to see him, so he confused their tongue . . .Science comes and shows us that there is no such God hiding in the sky. Science showed us that such a story can only be the imaginations and thinking of primitive men ,science has also shown that languages evolve over time, not as a result of some God confusing people's tongues because doesn't want them build a high tower and see him hiding in the clouds. . . 

you're confused and all over the map yourself.  Do you even know what you said earlier that led us to this?

I made a simply statement and all you are doing is dancing around it since. . .

Try debating this with Stephen Hawkin and see whether evolution does accept criticism.

Yawn[b]. The problem with debating people like you is that you essentially contribute nothing of intellectual value[/b]. You simply fill space with circular arguments that lead no where and provide no information to the reader.

If you have valid point then why not? Look who is talking. . .How have you contributed any thing of value beside snide remarks?. . . .

davidylan:
Some of the staunchest advocates of evolution are theist and christians

Do the above sound the same to you?

and just as an aside, there was no case such court case in 2002 and Ken Miller appeared as a witness NOT as a lawyer.

Really this is getting redundant. Its clear you have no understanding of what you are talking about.

I repeat some of the staunchest advocates of evolution are christians. . . .Ken Miller, . Richard Colling, David Livingstone, Howard Van Till, Stanly Jaki . . .Just to mention a few. . . These are all Christians no? There are also christian websites that defend evolution. . . .

http://www.polkinghorne.org/

http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/evolution/christian_evolution.html

http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/babinski/evangelicals.html

But you clearly advance science to debunk the God "myth"? Which is it dude?

Sure, evolution is not the only aspect of science that is out there. . .And yes science has shown that your God is a fiction of human imagination, once he was thought to be living in the sky above the clouds and was afraid that people were going to build a tower to reach him, now science has shown that it is a lie because science has sent men into space and your God that is supposed to be living in the sky is no where to be found. . .

Stup[i]i[/i]d. I write my own protocols and papers . . . empirical evidence does sometimes prove that your null hypothesis is true. too many charlatans bleating about science all day when they've never been at a bench before in their lives.

I don't know what you are on about here. . .Science is just an objective map . . .the keyword is map. Does the map work, or not? that is the question the scientist must answer and prove and it involves some probability as well.

Neither does evolution accept criticism. When was the last time you saw Richard Dawkins being willing to listen to the God view outside of ridiculing it?

How does evolution not accept criticism? May be its because your criticism is baseless and of no value. . . Its a field of science and as we all know science welcomes criticism all the time, that how it advances and keeps moving forward. . .How do you promote the God view without anything to work with, when you guys are challenged your quickly throw out the faith card, no?. . .

davidylan:
hmmm actually there are. Just say you are too ignorant to know.

You can drop some names. . . .

This is what you said - You claim to be a scientist and Mantraa posted a scientific paper that was done by some scientist in England, you dismissed it off compleletly on the grounds that you work with RNA every day.

Why would you be interested in my take on a paper you clearly didnt understand and never read? Did you know if the arguments in the journal was valid or not? Just because it espoused atheistic viewpoints and it was "done by some scientist in England" you felt you had to "defend" it?

What is this man saying. . .You are just making things up and running commentary on them. . . .I was not defending anything in the paper. . .I was just telling you that you are supposed to do what other scientist do when you object a person's work. . . .You are not supposed to be crying blue murder here on nairaland. . .How are we to know if your objections or opinions are true?. . . .

I doubt you understand evolution at all. . . i think you should go study up on it first. Abiogenesis is the theoretical precursor to evolution itself. For something to evolve, it must first exist in a certain form . . . abiogenesis is the scientist's way of explaining that begining.

Really? You made the above statement?

Evolution has NOTHING to do with abiogenesis. . .Abiogenesis deals with the origin of life from the scientific point of view while evolution deals with diversity. How are they the same?

davidylan:
You cant have it both ways . . . just yesterday one of you was bellowing about how the greatest obstacle to evolution was christians and US right wingers. Today you say the largest followers of evolution are christians? Prior you had said the bulk of scientists who revere evolution are non-believers . . .

True, the right wingers and Christians don't want it to be thought in public schools and are always fighting it, no?. . . .

WHICH IS IT DUDE? 

We know the above isnt true, the staunchest advocates for evolution are NOT christians. Period.

When evolution was taken to court in one of the states in the US in 2002 under president Bush, Ken Miller and another guy who was also a Christians where the guys that went and defended it against the intelligent design ovement and won,no?. . .I said some of the advocates of evolution are christians and many of my christians friends here in Europe believe in evolution.

the typical cop-out. Doesnt believe in God but has no understanding of the alternative so its just easier to sit on the fence cheering on "science" when it seems its getting close to an answer then rushing back to the "i dont believe in evolution" fence when the arguments are exposed for the charade they are.

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God/Gods. . . .There have been atheist long before the theory of evolution was copped out and long before the scientific age of enlightenment so your argument is silly. . .The position does not always have to be either God or science. . .

Justgood argued this point a few weeks ago. You dont understand science at all . . . it doesnt rely on the laws of probability . . . you either have empirical evidence or you dont.

You clearly do NOT know what you are talking about. . .Scientific observation can only show that a hypothesis has not yet been proven to be illegitimate. The empirical evidence derived from a test of a hypothesis proves, not that the hypothesis is true, but only that the hypothesis has not been proven to be untrue. Science does not deal in absolute truth but only in probability.

[And when are you challenging the pope too? put your mouth where your money is too. You've repeated this claptrap over 20 times now and its been an ongoing refrain from you for over a yr. Got any other arguments left? This tripe is getting old.

Religion does not accept criticism because everything has been laid out already, no?. . . .When was the last time you saw the pope in an open debate with atheist challenging them to prove the bible wrong?. . . .

davidylan:
i'll be real patient in pointing out the illogicality of this statement. I disagree with evolution and interesting since it comes up as a topic on this forum, i choose to air my opinions on the issue. Now do you put your mouth where your money is by challenging the pope? Why dont you start writing papers into religious journals arguing your case? See how hopelessly foolish your point sounds now?

There is nothing illogical about what I have stated. . .Religion is not like science, science welcomes criticism and very vigorous debate. Religion does NOT. . .There is no religious publication that will accept opposing views. . .If the Vatican has such papers that allows people to criticize its religion tell me what it is and I will write an article and submit if they will publish it. . . .Science on the other hand welcomes challenge and open criticism all the time,that is why some laws are changed and advances are made. . . .So your comparison is silly to me because religion and science do not function the same way. . .One accepts and welcomes open challenge and criticism while the other does not. . .

Ditto for pretty much all of you here who still go ahead quoting papers you dont understand.

Others, but i doubt  if you will ever see me quote from a paper i don't fully understand. . .

i just outlined scientific facts debunking the silly theory of abiogenesis through RNA. You just commented on it dude so what exactly is your point here? Are you just willfully blind?

I think you don't understand what am saying. . .Am not talking about abiogenesis even though i know that is what what you are talking about in this case, just talking about evolution in general since that is what you love to hate.

davidylan:
Surreptitiously, atheism has become a faith. a quasi-religion of those who worship at the alter of science.
A "science" most are either too ignorant to comprehend or are too delusional to understand its inherent limitations.
Like laity they worship at the feet of their science masters, nodding mindlessly to their theoretical gymnastics.
Like unthinking braying sheep, they trumpet debunked speculations,  making a fool of their own much vaunted "intelligence".
They are like chaff, tossed about with the prevailing winds of atheistic dogma yet lacking the courage of their own personal convictions.

The way you always contradict yourself is really mind boggling. . . .Some of the staunchest advocates of evolution are theist and christians like you. . . .A lot of atheist like me do not believe in evolution(I accept parts of it though). Scientist have ALWAYS stated that science has its limitations and are quick to say that science relies on laws of probability which may or may not be true. That is what allows room for modification and advancement. . . .You have been crying blue murder through out the thread, declaring that you are a scientist, but when asked to do what scientist do you quickly backed off.  The challenge is simple. . .Since you claim that your scientific knowledge has shown you that evolution is not science but a fantasy of deluded people and scientist have claimed and maintained that they theory has not been falsified up till date, I will expect you to show them that the theory is all crap by challenging their assertions. You will win a Nobel peace price, become very rich, famous and help show them that they are wrong. Parroting your opinion about the issue is of no use to any body here since you can't put your money where your mouth is. . . .

davidylan:
1. This is typical of the nigerian mentality; because the paper was written by an English scientist then automatically a nigerian cannot challenge it because he/she is inherently inferior? As a result of skin color or what?

What is this man saying?. . . .You have lost your bearing, because i did not insinuate that at all. . .All I asked you to do is put your mouth where your money is and stop crying blue murder on nairaland. . . .

2. Did you read the paper? You clearly didnt and neither did mantraa because that paper is itself riddled with way too many holes. Lets start from the basics for the id[i]i[/i]ots who dont even know how RNA works and why the paper is bullcrap.

Am not a biologist so couldn't understand much of what the paper was all about. . . .

a. RNA is made up of 4 bases - 2 are pyrimidines (adenine and guanine) and 2 are purines (uracil and cytosine)
- Sutherland's work synthesised only the 2 pyrimidines. Now how can you claim to have formed pre-RNA without the purine bases? the purine bases are CLEARLY very important here because the difference between DNA and RNA lies in the purine base called uracil.

b. the experiment was carried out in an isolated system. That much is clear by the fact that even Sutherland acknowledges that he kept phosphate addition until the last stage of this experiment. Clearly oxygen was not included here as well as it would simply have oxidised the entire system thus producing no ribonucleotides. The usual excuse for this is that in the primordial soup, oxygen did not exist . . . even if we take this huge assumption . . . how did the early earth system create an isolated system for the creation of pre-RNA?

c. Sutherland carefully used UV radiation at carefully calculated periods to "zap" impurities that would have prejudiced his system. How did this occur in the primordial soup that would definitely have accumulated these impurities?

d. Problem of stereoisomers - Sutherland used only one mirror image for several of his starting molecules. How did the primordial soup successfully isolate one stereoisomer long enough to make precursor RNA?

e. Purification problems - At each stage of his experiment, Sutherland purified his products . . . how does he propose this happened in a primordial soup?

f. carefully controlled ph, heat?

g. Even if the primordial soup created pre-RNA, just how were the first codons read without a single error at the first try (coding errors would lead to a useless protein anyway)?

You really dont need to write a ground-breaking paper to dismiss Sutherland's claims. Even a secondary school student of biology should be able to do this easily. The problem though is we have many who are too desperate for evidence (anything at all) to convince themselves that life could have started spontaneously that they are quite prepared to suspend logical thinking.

What Sutherland proposes is simple - given mounds of sugar, flour, baking powder and vegetable oil . . . the probability that chin chin will spontaneously occur is 1 in 1000.

But of course we all know that making chin chin requires a certain level of precision that is not likely to be recreated spontaneously in a pond.

Ok nice, very good and simple explanation even though am not a biologist i understand the point you are making with the way you laid out your objections. . .So fair enough. . . .I don't know much about these things cos am not a biologist but I believe that Sutherland can answer your objections. . . .Both sides have to be examined, no?. . .

Again daft. Having an opinion does not mean i have to write a paper to challenge someone's claims in nature. Unfreeze your brain and try to think without your anger. Its making you unable to reason clearly.

Now its finally down to opinion , eh?. . . .I thought you had scientific facts that destroys evolution. . .Didn't know that all your screams all these while are based on mere opinion. . .

davidylan:
immunology has nothing to do with evolution. It however doesnt preclude anyone from having an opinion on a broad range of science.
Working with RNA however gives me the opportunity to read some of the tripe written here in terms of its role in abiogenesis and laugh my belly off.

You claim to be a scientist and Mantraa posted a scientific paper that was done by some scientist in England, you dismissed it off compleletly on the grounds that you work with RNA every day. . .My position is this, if you TRULY know what you are talking about then you should have your own scientific papers challenging their claims, no?

This statement lacks any form of intelligence. So because i major in immunology i should have absolutely no idea what evolution is about and thus have no idea whether i believe it or not? Its like saying a math teacher should have no idea what work, energy or power is since he is not a physics major. Really that makes sense to you?

You clearly are trying to dance around what i said. . .As a scientist, how do you challenge the assertion or works of other scientists, do you do that by crying blue murder on nairaland? I thought you said you were a scientist and your scientific knowledge has shown you that evolution isn't science but a fantasy. I just want you to write a paper that destroys the scientific claims of evolution and win a Nobel peace price. . .If you truly know what you are talking about as you claim then you should be able to do that, no?. . .Don't you want to become a famous scientist?. . .Why are you hoarding your scientific knowledge that tells you that evolution is false?. . . .Will you put your mouth where your money is or will you continue to shamelessly claim that you are into immunology? What has that got to do with anything?. . .

davidylan:
your opinion is solely yours. I work on a daily basis with RNA, building genome-wide classification models for select immune-reactive chemicals . . . and what do you do by the way?
I am cited on pubmed . . . perhaps you have another criteria for who is a scientist and who is not but of course you can bleat all you want

Good, you claim to work on a daily basis with RNA , you made some objections to it and the role it plays in evolution, where is your scientific paper challenging the assertions made by evolutionist?. . . .Am a soft ware engineer by the way. . . .

Because id[i]i[/i]ot . . . my field is in immunology not evolution. This is a frankly stup[i]i[/i]d comment.

What then have you been blabbing about since you foooool?. . . .Now that I have challenged you to put your mouth where your money is you are foolishly running away and claiming your field is immunology. . . .

davidylan:
Its a two-way street. no contradictions here. The default mindset of the atheist is that the religious person is ignorant, in delusion and half as smart because he/she is not busy on talkorigins copying faulty claims for evolution. That much was evident from the very first 10 posts here.

Firstly evolution has nothing to do with atheism, a lot of the proponent of evolution are Christians. . .Secondly enough of your crazy talk about scientific knowledge because you are no scientist, your contribution to science and the scientific process is WHAT?. . .

If you know what you are talking about you won't be crying here on nairaland telling us about your scientific knowledge, we will be reading about your scientific findings and  theories you have proposed. When will this fooool go and challenge the evolutionist and win himself a Nobel peace prize?. . .If you TRULY know what you are talking about as you claim why aren't you challenging the evolutionist with your points in an open forum, where are your papers and scientific findings or theories that disprove evolution? Why haven't you presented it to scientist? If you truly know what you are saying you should have already done that by now. . .Do that and win a Nobel peace price. . . . Evolution according to scientist is a theory that has yet to be disproved. . . . .If you have what it takes and truly know your onions as you claim then you should be out with papers that disprove evolution already instead of crying here on nairaland all the time. . .Thought you claim to be a scientist? Why is your mouth not where your money is?. . . .

The OP is a lair and very funny. . .Come and get me witch. . .

davidylan:
Read the book of genesis, the christian does not claim to have any facts other than what God has said. Dont like it, no problem.

What God(the creator of the universe) said or what men wrote and kept propagating it as the sayings of God?. . .There is a great difference. . . .A lot of christians like the answers in genesis and IRC guys claim that there are scientific facts with regards to creationism, no?. . .

vedaxcool:
^^^^^

You are yet to recover from beating you got here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-723007.128.html when you have recover pls inform and tell how it has help reshaped the way you think.

Lots of Love/Laughter from Veda

Na wah ohhh. . .Which imaginary beating are you talking about . . .It seems you have an inflated opinion of your ramblings. . .I laugh in arabic. . .

Lets see the "beatings" you are talking about. . .

I quoted some verses from the Koran that talks about Allah disliking the unblievers and another one that says that Alah has precribed figting for muslims and they dislike it. . .You on the other hand went ahead and took a part of another verse and LIED that it is a futher reading of the verse I quoted.

I asked you to show me where the name Allah appears in any part of the bible and your response to that was the catholic church believes that christians and muslims worship the same God. . .I wasn't talking about the position of the catholic church but what the bible says. . .You know very well that Allah is not the same God as that of the bible whose name is Jehovah Yahweh, hence you kept showing me the position ofthe catholic church as if that is what the bible says. . .

You talked about Allah guiding all of humanity, but i showed you that over 80 percent of the world population today does not believe in Allah and back in the days over 95 percent of the worlds population do not believe in Allah, how can Allah provide guidence to all of humanity when most of the humans alive and the ones that have lived in the past do not believe or acknowledge him at all?

So much for "beatings". . . .You are a joke. .

toba:
Skeptics have used Cain's wife time and again to try to discredit the Book of Genesis as a true historical record. Sadly, most Christians have not been able to give an adequate answer to this question.

Sadly, most Christians probably could not answer these questions! And yet, there are answers

I will tell u straight op here on Nairaland that Cain's wife was a descendant of Adam. She could not have come from another “race” of people and must be one of Adam's descendants.

Firstly, where in the bible can we find any of what you have stated?. . . .Secondly if all humans decended from one man and woman then there should be DNA evidence to show and support that claim, where is the DNA evidence that shows that all humans decended from one man and one woman?. . .

vedaxcool:
Jesus called Allah as "Father" because he wanted to make distinction between Jewish names of God and coming of Islam, to reduce conflicts on that.

WHERE does the name Allah appear in any part of the bible?. . .The God of the bible says his name is Jehovah Yahweh and NOT Allah. . .