₦airaland Forum

Image123:
God is not likely to send manna when the children of israel get to canaan land. Yes, once in a while, He might send a raven to feed Elijah or bless 5loaves and 2fishes. But it's once in a while. God has made man and given him dominion. Man is expected to exercise that dominion IN CONJUCTION WITH trust in God.
God is an effective manufacturer, and He expects His machine(man) to sort of autorun. Not always jumping to the rescue like one dubious mechanic i know. It takes Life to achieve the silk balance that i hinted earlier.

Where in the bible does it say that God acts once in a while?. . . .

e36991:
@Mazaje

The mum was applying oil with no power in it

Yup the mum; the parents were in the same predicament as the gentleman that complained to Jesus

only that when these particular faith healers wondered why they underperformed,

they were slagged off for letting the gentleman down with their unbelief or lack of enough faith

I just find it hard to believe since neither you or me truly know if they have enough faith or not, but why pray when you don't have faith at all that your prayers will work?. . . .Most people pray for healing  because they truly believe in their prayers else, they won't bother to pray at all. . . .

e36991:
@Mazaje

Aw c'mon now, you know better than this

Just as with the gentleman complaining to Jesus, the unbelief lies at the foot of the "faith healer" not the parents

But in this case it was the parents together with the Church elders that both prayed for the child and the oil was applied by the mum, not the church elders. . . .

e36991:
@Mazaje

Why it failed you want to know.

Looks like you need to do a bit of catching up. How did you miss that question gettting addressed earlier

Never mind, here it is reloaded

Unbelief? Will the parents prefer to go to the church elders and use oil and prayers if they did not believe that such actions will cure their child?. . . .Do you truly believe that the parents will refuse their daughter whom I believe they love dearly, access to medical help and opt for the biblical alternative if they do not believe?. . . .

e36991:
@Mazaje

No need to strikeout works

because sincerely we do know exactly how well faith healing works and how well/why it fails

Things happens . . . Dont be hasty painting others with the same brush used on loud-noise-making empty barrels

OK, so why did it fail in this case?. . . . .

OLAADEGBU:
I know that technically he is a muslim by birth and officially he claims to be a christian by mouth but what does all these socialist actions tell us about what he really believes?  All other past Presidents did not make such demands when they spoke at churches and I know that Obama does not make such demands when he visits mosques.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

When did Obama give speech in a mosque?

Obama is a Muslim, go kill yourself. . . .

e36991:
@Mazaje

"O ye, of little faith . . ."

There are several places in the Bible in which the above phrase is used

It is usually referencing instances where little faith or the lack of it prevents the move and demonstration of God's power (i.e healings or miracles)

An example is the below

The verse is not a sham and faith healing is not necessarily a fraud

It is still the onus of the parent to safeguard the well being of the kid by all means at their disposal

Availing of medical assistance that likely already has a cure for the illness is an option that shouldnt have been shied away from

I am sorry to say but Faith healing remains a fraud,  The point is, the pure application of the methods as described in the bible, don't work. They only "work" in conjunction with modern medicine, whereas medicine works just effectively o its own without any anointing, hand laying on or praying.

The fact that you and many other modern Christians don't rely solely on bible technology is also telling. You know exactly how well it works fails.

This case illustrates the difference between BS and reality. . . . .If faith healing works Christians won't be going to hospitals since most of tem truly believe and have faith. . .I visited a friend the other day and I saw him watching Reinhard Bonnke on TV  telling people to come forward and get healed of their various diseases or what ever it is that is wrong or afflicting them, forgetting that he himself uses a medicated glasses due to eye defect. I wonder when he is going to lay hands on himself and heal himself of his poor vision problems since he obviously uses medicated glasses to aid his vision. . . .

Firstly the book of genesis was NOT written by Moses, the book was written by more than one writer, that is a FACT. . . .Secondly the genesis creation account is just the bronze aged man's idea of how the earth came about based solely on what he sees and his reasoning abilities at that time. . . .Thirdly the cosmology presented in the hebrew scriptures is no different than the one held by Israel's neighbors at that time. Typically, ancient Near eastern cosmological writings depict heaven (or sky) and earth (dry, flat land) as the two halves of creation, and they describe ways in which the sky came to be held securely above the earth. The stories in genesis 1 and 2 are NOT the same and were not even write at the same time or by the same person most bible scholars agree to this.

There are also creation stories or myths to be found in the Psalms (74:12-17; 89:11-13) and the book of Job (26:7-13; 38:1-11) which probably predate the genesis stories. All of these bear strong resemblance to the stories told by other middle eastern cultures. . . . .

The ancient hebrews viewed the universe has having three levels: 1) heaven, 2) earth, and 3) sheol or the place of the dead, under the earth. The first level was the abode of their God, the stars and the moon, the second was the abode of man, and the third was the abode of the dead. Their God was not light years away but just above us as if in a balcony. That is why according to the tower of babel myth the ancient Jews thought they could climb their way their God who was siting high about the clouds. The earth was seen as flat with four corners. This view continued into the new testament and was no doubt the view of Jesus himself, because he spoke of the whole earth seeing the son of man when he comes on the clouds.

So here is the summery of the genesis creation myth in a nutshell. . . .

1. In Genesis 1:1, the earth and "heaven" are created together "in the beginning".

2. In Genesis, the earth is created with water in it (1:1) before light (1:3), sun and stars.

3. God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?

4. God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters.

5. God placed the sun, moon, and stars in the firmament so that they can be used "for signs". This, of course, is exactly what astrologers do: read "the signs" in the Zodiac to predict what will happen on Earth.

6. The greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." But the moon is not a light; it only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky?

7. (1:16) "He made the stars also."
God spends a day making light (before making the sun and stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars.

8. 1:17) "And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth."
Then why is only a tiny fraction of stars visible from earth? Under the best conditions, no more than a few thousand stars are visible with the unaided eye, yet there are hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy and a hundred billion or so galaxies. Were they all created "to give light upon the earth"?

The scientific explanation has its own holes but it best explains what we see and observe and with some empirical evidence to back it up if I may add. . ,

OREGON CITY -- A Beavercreek couple who left their infant daughter's fate to God rather than seek medical treatment for a mass that grew over her left eye will face charges of first-degree criminal mistreatment.

The Wylands and their church reject medical care in favor of faith-healing -- anointing with oil, laying on of hands, prayer and fasting. The parents testified at a juvenile court hearing last week that they never considered getting medical attention for Alayna.

According to court documents, Rebecca Wyland anointed Alayna with oil each time she changed the girl's diaper and wiped away the yellow discharge that seeped daily from the baby's left eye.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-city/index.ssf/2010/07/post_2.html

https://media.oregonlive.com/oregon_city_news/photo/alayna1jpg-7e5bb9ccc2d6b094_large.jpg


Fisrtly the parents DID exactly what was instructed and written in the bible

"Is anyone among you sick? [b]Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. [/b]And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven" (James 5:14-15).


Obviously this verse is a sham because it failed, it has failed many and it will continue to fail. . . . .

Where are all the faith healers to come and show their magic talent and immediately heal this baby?. . . . .If christianity is true then christians are supposed to be magicians according to the bible. Who are those that are always busy shouting and talking about miracles and wonders, wil they pray for this baby and heal her?. . . .Or is faith healing a fraud as usual?

author=Akwasi link=topic=481465.msg6465509#msg6465509 date=1280322126
My brother you are right. But as you told me some other time, don't waste your time on those fools(the Bible calls them fools).

Bla bla bla. . . .The writers of the bible(writers of myths, legends and ridiculous fantasies) are what I call fools, including those of you that chose to believe in their lies, myths and fantasies. . . .

By the way, the reason I posted this article here was not for these fools to explain to me how the Bible survived the inferno but to let all of you my beloved believers know that our God is really alive and He is always watching us and giving us the signs and signals of the end time that He promised us.

Ohhh, interesting. . .So your God was busy giving you signs and signals eh, where was the said God when Muslims were burning bibles and Christians inside Churches in Jos recently? So because a bible refused to burn means that the world is coming to an end, eh? . . .What about countless other books like the koran and dictionaries that survived other infernos?. . . . .

I am glad all the unbelieving fools who came on this thread never tried to dispute the story because it was witnessed by thousands of people. Once again, may God bless all the believers and heal the fools of their foolishness.

Whats there to dispute?. . . .Koran, bibles, dictionaries have all survived infernos so there is nothing new there, again where was your God to show the sign of the end times when muslims were busy killing christians and burning them and their bibles in Jos recently?. . . .

And why are you calling us fools?. . .Do you want to end up in hell? . . . .

22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell

vedaxcool:
I had asked my sister the same question that those who claim energy can neither be created nor destroyed never quite explain what eventually occurs to certain energy once they leave their bodies of origin like you have pointed out in the dead rat. But i think that that theory should not hold water any more cause [b]the Big bang theory clearly shows that energy was created, [/b]hence if Energy was created then it can be destroyed or even if it cannot be destroyed it was created and disproves the above theory.  Now another questions that comes whenever we hear a generator function it perpetually loosses energy in form of sound, another question that comes to mind is what eventually happens to this sound energy(wasted energy) it is claimed it converts to another( i suspect kinetic energy) kind of energy and a chain of continuous conversions occur, but this definitely calls an investigation as to what eventually happens does the energy ends up in another body or continues dilly dallying in the earth. But i think your topic will be a hard nut to crack as even scientist do not know what life is or what it looks like at the end of the day many question might end up not being answered.

Can you produce any scientific paper about the Big Bang that says energy was created during the BB?. . . . . .

My mother used to have them back in the days and she encouraged us to read them while growing up. . . . . .I re-read Emmanuel Eni's book about 2 years ago and was shocked at the sheer nonsense and pure delusion  that are contained in the book, silly and crazy fiction that I once actually believed was real. . . . .Pathetic. . . . .

wirinet:
Do you realize that an hypnotist can make almost anybody experience these same emotions without any religious symbol, image or incantations.

Also pastors, priests, etc can duplicate these same emotions in his followers after prolonged periods of programmed suggestions.

So everybody can experience it, it depends on context.

This sums it up nicely. . . . .I just don't get what image123 is saying about souls, spirit and body. . . . .I'll leave that for another discussion. . . . . . .

Image123:
Anyone can bring himself to a level of emotional bliss. You don't have to be a believer to do that. It's simply proof that each person is not just body. We're spirit, soul and body. The import of this is the value of eternity. When the body dies, the soul still lives and where it spends eternity is paramount, because that's just the beginning of true bliss or gloom. Ask yourself, where will i spend eternity?

People seem to experience these emotions ONLY because  these beliefs and experiences are carried on because of the fear and guilt that has been instilled upon the believer. . . .Once you feed your mind with certain thoughts you get certain results, nothing new there. . .Its all about staring up and evoking specific kinds of emotions and letting  the emotions you have evoked to take control of you. . . .

All the crazy goons and whack jobs at fixed noise channel(fox news) need to stop spreading lies and get a life. . . . .

What is this slave of the barbaric Arabian idol God of the desert  called Allah saying? At least atheist don't have to bomb others for their beliefs and there is no atheist manual that tells atheist to kill of the unbelievers. Your koran and hadith  are filled with violence, death and destruction, no? You worship no God at all, all you worship are the beliefs and ideas  that were invented and coined by ancient and primitive arabic men. . . . .

[img]http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/Cartoons_files/M1.jpg[/img]

https://cagle.msnbc.com/news/blog/BLOGgifs/TabDanishCartoons.gif

slyfoxxjoe:
all of u wishing him to go blind i really pitty u. little do u know how often those kind of wishes backfire. what on earth has glenn beck done to u personally?. is it wrong to be a political critic? the reason why nigeria is the way it is is because we dont have gutted journalists and reporters like him who would openly critisize the government. every government no matter how perfect it is would always have some flaws and it needs crtitics to keep it in check. no matter how much u like obama and the democrats u cant deny that their administration has been heavily flawed so far. calling beck a racist just because he opposes the administration of a black man is not only shallow and unethical, its also incredibly silly. Obama himself said he had no problem with beck because he knows the mans just doing his job and its nothing personal. he even said if he ever met him in the flesh he would "give him a pat on the back and tell him to keep up the good work" so who are u to judge

Its one thing to criticize and its another thing to be a liar, fraud, racist and a conspiracy theorist, Glenn Beck is no critic, he is just a foolish fool, I am not hoping that he goes blind though, but the guy is just a crazy lunatic. . . . Bachmann is just a crazy woman. . . . .

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=474634.msg6432451#msg6432451 date=1279816819]Mazaje,

there are certain feeling that exceeds humans scope of understanding, i heard you saying stuff like "its all in the mind and the human mind is very complex and can do so many things, It can make you see things that are not there and make you have feelings that are out of this world if only you can feed it enough"
Ok i'll ask two questions before i drop

1. a new baby expresses emotions minutes after being born, one of which is crying, pls was there anyway this baby's mind was fed to act that way?, *respond with your quote in mind[/quote]A new born baby responds to stimuli by crying, since the baby is not fully conscious of his/her environment. . . .Crying comes naturally to a baby as a means to express it self both from internal and external stimulus. . . .I don't think a new baby has a fully developed mind per say because a new born baby can not reason, a new born baby is not fully aware of its environment at all. . .It can not fully express itself. . . . .Since a new born baby does not have a complete mind as a result of its inability to reason or think properly, my explanation does not apply to a new born baby . . . .So to answer your question I will say yes, a new born baby cries because, feeds its mind(consciousness) and makes it to act in a certain way from the stimulus it receives from the external environment. . .

2. Do you believe in 'spiritual possession' [a different spirit from yours comes to reside and control one's acts, deeds and lifestyle] ?

maybe with that we can have something good to talk about. cheers!

No, I don't believe in this per say, not that I disbelieve in it completely, but I don' use labels like spiritual possession. . . .I know people that have double personality dis-order etc. . . . .

Andrew Breitbart needs to go blind too. . . .

wirinet:
I love the saying "ignorance is bliss" and i also say "ignorance is paradise". Sometimes i wish i could bring myself to such levels of emotional bliss, it is just that when you understand things too much you lose the luxury of emotional intoxication, which is what i think makes us human. So i really envy you people who can get away from every day existence and enter into another world.

Having said that, such feelings is not unique to Christians, most eastern religions are able to enter such a mental and emotional state by meditation and yoga. A lot of African Religions has techniques for attaining such emotional states. Even non religious activities, like being in the presence of imagining being in the presence of our cult hero, be it Maradona,  Michael Jackson or Mandela can trigger such a state of ecstatic joy.

It happens even at secular  musical concerts, songs at a secular concert where the lyrical content is of an emotional nature, evoke very very powerful emotions to the extent that some people collapse and pass out because of too much emotion. Examples can be seen at Micheal Jackson concerts or even P square. . . I've seen lots of people shedding tears at non-religious songs at various concerts . . . . . I have seen Muslims evoke such emotional outburst when imagining things either about Mohammed or Allah their deity so its nothing exclusively Christian even though our friends in here will want to disagree. . .

john david:
are you a human? if you are what kind of human are you?

Yes I am human . . . . . .Did you not read where the OP said he imagine things?. . . . .

The peeps in here are busy imagining things that give them warm and special feelings and patting each other on the back, eh?. . . Good for you guys. . Let the imaginations keep flowing . . .

Allah likes sneezing and dislikes yawning


[Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 8, Book 73, Number 240]

Narrated Anas bin Malik (Radi Allah Anhu) : Two men sneezed before the Prophet Muhammad (sal-allahu- alleihi-wasallam ). Allah's Messenger (sal-allahu- alleihi-wasallam ) said to one of them, "May Allah bestow his mercy on you", but he did not say that to other. On being asked (why), the Prophet (sal-allahu- alleihi-wasallam ) said, "That one praised Allah (at the time of sneezing), while the other did not praise Allah."


[Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 8, Book 73, Number 242]

Narrated Abu Huraira (Radi Allah Anhu) : The Prophet Muhammad (sal-allahu- alleihi-wasallam ) said, "Allah likes sneezing and dislikes yawning, so if someone sneezes and then praises Allah, then it is obligatory on every Muslim who heard him, to say: 'May Allah be merciful to you (Yar-hamukallah) '. But as regards yawning, it is from Satan, so one must try one's best to sop it as much as possible. Because if anyone of you yawns the Satan laughs at him."

This Allah sef dey vex ohhh, he like sneezing and dislikes yawning?

Did I hear anybody say Sean Hannity, Lars Lason and Rush Limbaugh will be next? . . .Just kidding though. . .

MyJoe:
I don't believe God interacts with humans, although it is possible people get vibrations from the spiritual word. I tend to see the universe as running like a computer programme. You press this key and something happens. That may spark off something which will cause another to fall into or out of place. The programmer does not need to stand there arms akimbo.

From the choleric warlord of the Old Testament to the Personal Assistant parroted by many Christians, I don't find the concept of God produced by most of the religions I have studied plausible. I see God as the reality that defies definition.

God can exist in another dimension and exist among humans if he is indeed the Creator. Remember he spawned the universe. People in higher dimensions can "see" people in lower dimensions, whereas the reverse would be generally impossible.

Well, there are experiences and you have heard them before, I believe. Mazaje sees his elderly great aunt living in Kaura Namoda while coming out of the Konstan Möljä in Helsinki. A few minutes later he receives a phone call that she died. I once met a man who claims he can recall seven past lives. What would you say mazaje if you met him and the stories he tells you checks, after you have verified he had no way knowing of the events he talked about? I don't do these stories much, myself, so I can't really write much along that line right now.

I have an atheist friend from Ireland that has this incredible abilities too, my personal take on this is that perhaps we are yet to know all about our abilities as humans, perhaps some people have special natural abilities which we are yet to discover which allows them to do most of these things we consider as supernatural. I was just reading an article about sleeping on the new scientist website some months ago and I realized that we know very little about that action. Scientist have just recently some aspects of sleeping which we take for granted. . . .I have moved past the level where I ascribe unknown things to deities. . . .I don't doubt that people have such abilities at all, what I don't understand is why people use such human abilities as evidence for God even when such abilities are well studied natural explanations are mostly found even if it takes generations, I understand the reason or logic though, but on a personal level, unknown things remain unknown. . . .

alexleo:
@mazaje,
quite a pity you allowed the devil to deceive you so much about a God whom you first belived and served.

Which devil deceived me? have you ever seen or meet any devil? Am talking about reality and you are busy parroting one myth after the other. . . .

You are just deceiving your self.

You are the one deceiving yourself believing in the mythical construct of Jews, Romans and Greeks. . . . .

Saying you are wiser now by not believing God is like a car owner who disconnected his temperature guage because his car is over heating. Has he solved the problem? The car will still overheat and the top cylinder will still burn because removing the guage so that you wont see the temperature rise doesnt mean the over heating problem is over. likewise, believing in your mind that there is no God, no heaven, no hell and saying you no more live in fear of God does not change the fact that there is

I know its always about fear, I am not fearful of mythical constructs. . . ,

Better turn back to God now before its too late. Remember, after life judgement follows. It doesnt matter weather you believe it or not.

Before I was born I knew nothing, after I die I will know nothing. . . . . .The after life is what you were made to believe, it has nothing to do with reality. . . .

caticati:
Wow, i don't even know what to call this, in this awareness age? God help us all.

Some Christians still do it too, albeit in a very different way. . . . .

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=474634.msg6418142#msg6418142 date=1279633523]Mazaje

I bet you wont understand this experience, its truly unique  [/quote]I have been there, done that and seen it all, I used to be a Christian just like you and the other posters here, so believe me when I say I understand all the feelings. . . .The key word her is IMAGINATION and other things that come with it. . .Its all in the mind and the human mind is very complex and can do so many things, It can make you see things that are not there and make you have feelings that are out of this world if only you can feed it enough. . . . .It is all about yanking emotional strings, feeding your mind and letting it imagine things in a particular way. When the themes of your imaginations are about you being worthless, sinful, rubbish, filthy etc, and now some  loving, good and powerful father figure loves you and has hurt himself  badly to be with you and save you from your sins, what do you expect the emotion to be if you believe it?. . .It can be mind blowing. . . .Been there done that seen it all, In retrospect, it is such a cheap, shameless, juvenile emotional manipulation that people just subject themselves to and call it "God's presence" or what ever. . . . .It is the same emotion that drives Muslims(Shia) to flagellate themselves and cause serious body injuries to themselves when celebrating their religious procession, they do so just because some Imam tells them that an innocent Islamic caliphate was brutally and painfully  killed so that they can know about Islam, they are told that they themselves have to follow suit and suffer or experience what he went through before he died, they sit down imagine all what they have been told and before you know it they are up with whips and knifes flagellating themselves and bleeding badly. . .Its all a mind game

https://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00265/lifelead3_265526s.jpg

Shia Muslims flagellate themselves during a procession

alexleo:
yes i do experience it too. And in most cases i find myself speaking in tongues. [b]I mean speaking in other people's language [/b]as recorded in acts 2:6-11 and i will stop so as to revert to the original language i was praying with but each time i opened my mouth  i  still find myself speaking another language coupled with the overwhelming joy that floods my soul. I dont know any other langauge apart from my  own language and english but it marvels me when i hear myself speaking what sounds like yoruba or one nigerdelta language. Immediately i finish praying i forget what i ve spoken but the joy of it remains for a long time. God is great. .

You don't know any other language beside english and your native language, but you know when you are speaking another person's language, eh?. . Interesting. . .

MyJoe:
You are right, it's largely unobjective. I can tell you what convinces me as to the existence of God, but it's all subjective. Does it not make complete sense to you that if there is God he would be in another dimension, which is impossible to access in your present material state? I realise you don't believe in the existence of the non-material. So how do you deal with stories related by others as to their experiences? All in your head, I guess. I, too, think a lot of things are in people's head. But what about stories that have been objectively verified?

I will like you to define God in your own terms so that I know exactly what I am talking about? Are you talking about the creator of the universe(as in deist God concept) or the Jewish, Christian, Arab, Hindu, Buddhist etc concept?. . . .

If by God you mean the creator of the universe,then I can accept that possibility since I don't know who or what was responsible for the universe, Do you believe in a God that interacts with humans? If the said God exist in another dimension, how then can he still exist amongst humans?. . . .As for the experiences, what kind of experiences are they?. . . .

Akwasi:
It must be a real business for you, going around and displaying your ignorance on this forum. I pity your soul currently. It is in the most miserable state by now.

What everrrrrrrrrrrrr. . . . . .At least I don't sit around imagining things up and feeling all so special and warm about my imaginations. . .