₦airaland Forum

noetic2:
From the above we can deduce the following

1. allah is an arabian fraud.

Go get them neotic. . . . tell them the truth. . .

noetic2:
u are missing the bigger picture.

how does any of the biblical stories disprove the existence of God? I just dont get it. . . . . , pick a story in the bible and tell us why u think this story supports your claim that God does not exist.

Ok let me give you some examples. . .The bible talks about god appearing to the Israelite or addressing them through public speeches at one point or the other but once he lives them alone they go and start worshiping idols . . . I find these tale so ridiculous and absurd. . .How can the Israelite disobey the kind  warrior and no nonsense kind of god talked about in the OT after he has appeared to them or addressed them through public speech. . . leave him and begin to worship idols . What kind of lalala tale is this? The same god that is said to appear to them and lead them in battles, strike them down when they disobey him, send mamma from heaven unto them etc. . . .This is just tales by moon light. . .

There are stories in the bible that have the bible god who is said to be an all knowing deity showing emotional outburst. . . .I have told you before that humans express emotions due to knew knowledge acquired in one way or the other. . .In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may emotively react. . . . . humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent god, however can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect god lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect god who experiences emotion is impossible.

you have not stated why what u call nature could not have been created by God?

You first of all have to prove to me that your god created the universe. . . moslems claim their allah did it. . you are yet to prove them wrong. . .provide your evidence to show that your god created the universe first of all then we will continue from there. . . unsubstantiated claims based on faith alone are not allowed. . .

@ Huxley

Why are things not evolving any more ? Or has evolution stopped? Why don't birds for example evolve into something else? I was watching a documentary on national geographic about the salmon. . . the live a very inefficent life style having to migrate to where they were born to reproduce  while coming across a lot of danger on the way(a lot of them die in the process of migrating). . . if evolution is true why don't they evolve into something else and avoid these inefficent life style. . . .

noetic2:
u ahve simply chose to disbelieve the evidences. . .  .that does not discredit the evidences. . or does it?
that aside. . . . . are the stories the basis of disbelieving in God? where are your numerous evidences to prove that God does not exist?

You have started again eh noetic . Again what are the evidence? What evidence do you have for the existence of your god apart from the bible and the sweet lies you keep telling yourself all the time, the bible is a book that men wrote and claimed that their god told them to write it. . .I sat in church for many years every Sunday and also weekdays as a kid and as a teenageer and thought that somehow I'd heard the whole bible story in both the OT and NT. But when I eventually decided to read the bible cover to cover I soon realized that it was only carefully selected parts they had been reading to us in church, and that the complete book actually does not make much sense in the modern world because even christians pick and choose which parts of the new testament to accept and discard. . . .

The scale of the stupidity, horror, brutality and contradictions only started to crystallize for me when I read the thing as a whole. Reading it in snippets is very fine actually because you can do away with all the babaric, horrible and contradictory parts. . . . it's mostly bullshit made up by people living under a cloak of ignorance and bigotry

let us start from the things u FALSELY call nature. . . . they are over one billion.

No matter how much you lie to yourself and keep banging your head on the wall claiming and ascribing everything to your god does not make it true. . . . .Let me also make a claim, zeus created the universe prove to me that he did not. . . .

banom:
and you forgot to add his fictitious dream account of noetic2 chapter 1 v 8.

. I asked neotic to tell me what jesus looked like when he appeared to him in his dreams and he started to insult me. . .

noetic2:
where is your proof that it was a lie?

Most of the stories were lies, fantasies and myths that never happened. . . I was told that a man had the ability to stop the earth from rotating just because he and his friends wanted to commit murder. . . A man survived inside a fish for 3 days. . men turned sticks into snakes etc. . . if the ancient egyptians can turn their sticks into snakes during the time of moses why can't they do it now?(The entire exodus tale is a lie because there is no evidence of the jews ever living in egypt out side the lying torah)

what do u define as "evidence"? cos the last time I checked there are[b] billions of evidences[/b] that support the existence of God.

What are the billions of evidence?

noetic2:
u are the main man. . . . .

though I dont think that your reasons for leaving christianity are genuine. ,  . , just my thoughts

No wahala you are entitled to your own opinion my man. . . .

dreams do come from the brain as a result of fantasies. . .  .but not ALL dreams.
99% of my personal dreams are warnings about future events. . . . .which always take the shape of the dream. . . . that could not have been formed from my brain.
There is as such a supernatural context to dreams also. Coincidence is NOT a factor.

How do you know that coincidence is not a factor? You are just begging the question. . . .Hope you know that you need a brain to be able to have dreams? Since you have invoked the supernatural then I will have to leave that to you. . .No be you talk say jesus dey appear to you for your dream

Neotic my man nothing do you sha. . . next time jesus appears to you in your dreams tell him to come to me too so that we will have a conversation. . .

banom:
I am just scared about your own version of Christianity,

This one na fundamentalist christianity. . .but worry not because neotic just needs a woman to calm all the tension down. . .

noetic2:
I thought u were once a christian. . . . . He still lives where u were told He lives in your sunday school. . . .try and remember.

I was lied to as a kid. . . . now I KNOW its a LIE. . . . .

where is your evidence that suggests He does not EXIST?

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. . . .

banom:
Then it unnecessary to the issue here.

You don talk am finish. . . .

noetic2:
what a bunch of ignoramuses

Noetic my man. . .

noetic2:
If u think that what has been said is a LIE . . . .then the onus is on u to prove it.
If God does not exist. . . .why do u have a problem proving it?

If god exist then where is he?. . . . .Neotic if you know where he is then pls show me. . . .

@ Banom its fictitious. . . .

noetic2:
what difference does it make?. . . why dont u just answer the questions?

"I DONT KNOW " is allowed.

Since its a hypothetical question then I will say that I don't know. . . . .what is your own explanation for it?. . . .

noetic2:
I dont remember saying anything was spiritual or not coincidental.
u said dreams come from the brain and are also coincidental. . .  .you are yet to prove this.

A man has a dream in which he sees a complete stranger, who walks up to him (the dreamer). This stranger is a man of 6ft height, speaks with a scottish accent and of the white race.The man introduces himself as smith and gives the dreamer a 20 pound note.  The event in this dream takes place as EXACTLY dreamed after 3 days.

Can you give me one example of this happening or are you asking a hypothetical question?

noetic2:
No one asked u to define a dream.

since according to u dreams come from the brain. . . how did my brain design a complete stranger in a dream. . . .and I met the same person days later doing the same things as seen in my dream. how did my brain come up with such a detailed analysis of a complete stranger?
why is the question so hard to answer?

It is not according to me it is a scientific FACT. . . it has been tested and it has been shown that there is a part o the brain that controls dreams. . .Here are two links for you to read

http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspiring-people-and-stories/your-brain-on-dreams-the-science-of-dreaming/article24430.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/13200.php

In a study published September 10, 2004, in the online edition of the Annals of Neurology, scientists describe a patient who lost all dreaming, and very little else, following a stroke in one distinct region of the brain, suggesting that this area is crucial for the generation of dreams

Which stranger did you see and what was the stranger doing? How did you know that it was the same person that you saw in your dreams? You made the claim so explain it. . .

I am yet to define or state where dreams come from. . . .all we are doing is to analyse your assumptions.
so please explain scientifically or otherwise. . . . , How EXACTLY are dreams coincidental?

It is not an assumption it is a scientific FACT the brain controls all our dreams. . . If you disbelieve what the scientist have said then tell me what part of the body controls the brain. . . .That you had a dream about something and it came to pass does not mean it is spiritual I still maintain that it is coincidental. . . every body regardless of religion, race and faith all experience these things. . . .so you tell me how do all these things come about if not be sheer coincidence? Explain with scientific and empirical examples. . . .I say its just a coincidence if you disbelieve then give me your scientific verifiable examples. . .

noetic2:
just like your compatriots, u keep mixing the credibility of evidences with acceptance or beliefs in evidences.
my beliefs may be dogmatic, but to claim that there are no evidences to back them up is like stating that eggs do not come from chickens. . .we all know how ridiculous that sounds.

I really do not understand what you are talking about here. . . .

No one is contesting the capacity to dream. . . .the bone of contention is your FALSE claim that dreams regardless of their accuracy and consistency are coincidental.

Please explain to me why they are not coincidental. . . . .

what are u talking about? have u ever seen my dreams before? I have seen complete strangers in my dreams before and so have countless millions of others.
so why dont u explain how my brain was able to capture a being I have never set my eyes on before? why are u running round in circles?

So what if you dream about strangers I also have dreams with strangers too, so what are you saying? people dream about every day activities and that includes meeting strangers. . . don't you meet stranger every time you go out? What is so special about stranger appearing in your dream? Dreams are just a series of images, ideas, emotions, and sensations occurring involuntarily in the mind which are controlled by our brains during certain stages of sleep.

how did my brain capture the thoughts and accents of the characters in my dreams? and here u are busy crying for scientific evidences. . . oh mazaje

I can' believe you just said this. . . again a dream is a series if images, ideas,emotions and sensations occurring involuntarily and controlled by our brains when we are asleep usually based on what preoccupies our minds and thoughts. . .doesn't your brain has a place where it stores information (memory)?

1. you were the one who made a FALSE claim that dreams are coincidental. u are yet to prove it.
how did my brain capture a complete stranger in a strange environment?

What makes them not coincidental? I gave you an example where I was preoccupied with the thoughts of obtaining a visa, I had a dream about it and it coincidentally came to pass. . .Now its up to you to show me that it is not a coincidence and explain to me why it is not. . . .

2. I have not mentioned anything about the supernatural or have i?

So why are you trying to imply if you are not trying to appeal to the supernatural what then is your own explanation for dreams that come true?

noetic2:


your legendary folly never cease to amaze me.
for instance,

Its your own dogmatic beliefs that have no evidence that never cease to amaze me.

So the brain brings the image of strangers involved in an incident with u. . . . .in a dream.
and this dream eventually comes to pass.

Sure you need a brain to dream without one you can never dream at all, even animals have dreams and that is a fact. . .

At the Sleep Neuroimaging Research Program at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, researcher Eric Nofzinger, MD, delves into the brains of sleeping subjects using PET scans normally employed to detect cancer and other diseases. By injecting subjects with mildly radioactive glucose, he's traced the source of dreams to the limbic system, a primitive part of the brain that controls emotions. During dreaming, the limbic system explodes like fireworks with neural activity, suffusing our dreams with drama.

"That's why so many dreams are emotional events," says Nofzinger, "where we're running from danger or facing an anxious situation. The part of the brain that controls dreams also orchestrates our instincts, drives, sexual behavior and fight-or-flight response." Meanwhile, the frontal lobes of the brain that govern logic disengage, explaining why dreams are often bizarre combinations of events and people.

http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspiring-people-and-stories/your-brain-on-dreams-the-science-of-dreaming/article24430.html

In a study published September 10, 2004, in the online edition of the Annals of Neurology, scientists describe a patient who lost all dreaming, and very little else, following a stroke in one distinct region of the brain, suggesting that this area is crucial for the generation of dreams. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/13200.php

some posers
a. since the people in the dream are complete strangers, how did the brain get their accurate image?

This is false people don't dream about people they have never meet completely with full descriptions, have you ever had a dream about a person living in china whom you have never meet before and you meet him and recognized him\her as the person you meet in your dream? people mostly dream about events and activities around them. . . .people dream about strangers all the time because people meet stranger all the time. You have to give me an example of a person that had a dream about a total stranger and he\she was able to recognize the stranger as the person he\she meet in their dreams. . . . no hear say stories pls. . .

b. how did the brain conceive and conceptualize their thoughts? the event itself? their accent and intentions?

Can you give scintific examples? Here say stories will not be accepted. . . scientific studies alone will do

c. how did the brain bring this dream to reality?


your answers are being awaited . . . .

I have had some dreams that saw the light of the day and so many many others that did not. . . it was all a coincidence, so many people all over the world regardless of race or religion all have their dreams come to pass at one time or the other. Its now up to you to show me how the supernatural controls dreams and make them come to pass with empirical examples. . .your answers are being awaited. . . .

noetic2:
dont jump the gun. . . .we are simply contesting the fact that u claim it is a "coincidence".

so, what is the source of your dreams?

The source of every dream is the brain. . .hope you know that even animals dream too. . .I have a dog and I can tell very well when its dreaming. . .

noetic2:
missed u too and your many wahala. . . . .lol

Which one be wahala again? Mazaje is a man of no wahala. . . . . .

I believe that u are not objective in dismissing dreams, trances, spiritual procrastinations et all as mere coincidences.
if a person has 5 dreams and all 5 dreams come to pass. . . i think thats more than a mere coincidence and that puts holes in your argument.

I have once read of a story of a moslem man that survived 3 different air crashes in Egypt. . . . what do you call that luck or the divine intevention of allah?. . . .Whtat stops 5 dreams coming to pass from being a coincidence? I have had some of my dreams come to pass like when I first applied for my UK visa I dreamt that I was the only person tha was going to be granted the visa amongst all my friends whom we applied together with and it came to pass I was the only person that got the visa while their applications were all rejected. . . so what is spritual about it? I have also dreamt about lying to my step dad to give me money and it came to pass, I did tell him the lie I told him in my dreams and he gave me the cash so what is spiritual about that? There are other times where I have been pre-occupised with things and dreamt about them but they did not come to pass at all, so I don't see any thing spiritual about it at all. . . .

tubabie:
Sorry to go off topic
BUT

Mazaje that video is . SMH

The sword of Mohammed and the Koran are the most stubborn enemies of Civilization, Liberty, and Truth, which the world has yet known.

noetic2:
mazaje's ability to be objective is dead. . . . .and long buried.

it is a coincidence that u have a dream . . .and the substance of your dream happen just like that. . .not once or twice but on several and numerous occasions.
mazaje has finally lost the plot.

Noetic my man two days I missed you . . . . .What do you mean that I don't have the ability to be objective?

Islam means violence and death simple. . .

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2515587181120245843#

The link shows what Islam is all about. . . .Islam means violence, death and destruction of the infidels. . . . .

Chrisbenogor:
Now Deep sight is into dreams and the futuristic studies, jeez I hope this does not degenerate to apparations?
I make a prediction today, one day everyone online right now will be dead
It must come to pass

Apparations  . Me sef make I make my own prediction. . . I predict that every body that eats must go to the toilet after some time. . . .

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=318972.msg4503024#msg4503024 date=1252410954]Look at them all dissing FOX news. IMO they're the best![/quote]Fox news :oTudor you be sean hannity cousin? abi you sef be conservative right winger. . .

Yar'a DULL. . . hope you have the mind to step down and allow competent people to rule. . . .

kunleweb:
Cranky hard heartedness,before you consume yourselves on the entire physicology you have learnt from a non God believing lecture try to watch 23Minutes in Hell Video search it on Google or read the Book of enoch,search in google read and learn,don't search for God by your terms and not His,He only reveals Himself by those who earnestly seek Him to select the ones that would believe in Him by faith not by forceful observance of signs and fleece.

Out

So people now have stop watches in hell

Deep Sight:
Mazaje -

Regarding predicting the future, dont be a rascal, you know very well i am not referring to stock market analysts.

I mean dreams for example.

Some people regularly foresee in their dreams events that take place further on in future.

(This has been my personal experience for most of my life, and its a constant repetitive feature, such that i cannot dismiss it.)

It happens to me too, I dream about things that will happen and they sometimes happen. . . .I dreamt that the super eagles were going to draw their match and it happned. Before the begging of the match I told a friend that I dreamt about the match and it was a draw, we laughed over it and wished the egales all the best and it turned out to be true. . .I have dreamt about other personal stuffs that did come true. . .Personaly I will call that a coincidence because people mostly dream about what preoccupies their minds. . . .I dream mostly when I have things on my mind else I don't even dream at all most times. . . .

Will you suggest -

   1. That it does not happen

   2. That even if it happens it is a physical affair?

Respond.

Of course it happens but I see no reason to ascribe it to the supernatural. . . .I believe that there are natural explanations for all these occurancies. . . .

noetic2:
Any attempt to make majaje offer cogent analysis is suicidal

Bla bla bla sheep have you any wool?. . . . . .

Deep Sight:
So you really discountenance completely the existence of all spirituality whatsoever (I'm not talking about God).

Yes I do. I disbelieve completely in the existence of all forms or spirits. People only believe in all these things without having any evidence to show for it beside platitudes and hear say stories that they grew up hearing or hear say stories that are prevalent in their surrounding culture. There was a time i visited my mums village  back in 2008 and I had a personal problems with the local priest(Herbalist) because we plocked some oranges that were growing around the shrine. The guy came and started to call us names telling us that we will anger the gods bla bla bla This is a guy who every body in that village is very very afraid of, people tell all sorts of stories about him and all the magic he has done in the past, from flying at night to having the ability to make a tree breath like a human being, making his house disappear etc. Every body in that village is very afraid of the man.

He knows that people are very much afraid of him and uses that fear that people have instilled in them to cheat them and treat them badly sometimes because he knows they will never try to oppse him, he was very unlucky to come my way and step on my toes because I and my friend beat him up completely, he promised to turn us into a frogs and make our lives misrable forever me and my friend(I am NOT kidding) he promised me that I will never return to the white man's land ever again(Europe). Even my mum that is a born again christian cried and told me to go and beg him because she was very afraid. . . I didn't go  because I KNOW that nothing will ever happen to me, I told him to his face that he can never do anything to me. People just believe in nonsense because they have been conditinoned and brought up to believe in them that is just it. I am a living witness all these magic do not work. . . . . .People still believe that men have the ability to turn each other into frogs, vulture, money etc by reciting some nonsense lines

If you discountenance the existence of all spirituality, how do you explain the following phenomena -

   1. People who can predict the future

What do you really mean by predicting the future? Scientist predict the future based on experience and a set of some other known parameters. Scientist predict the occurance of natural diasters, economist predict the future of a nation's economy, doctors predict how long some of their patients with terminal illness will live, people predict the future based on experience and some known parameters and the sometimes do come true there is nothing super natural there. People use a person's behaviour to predict what will happen to him in the future, if you are a rascal that lives by the sword any body can predict and tell you that you will die by the sword and that might likely come true some times it just a matter of coincidence. If you know any body that knows what will happen to me i.e  where I will be and what I will be doing by this time(hour) next year pls bring the person on. As far as I KNOW there is no such person alive that knows that. . . . . . .

2. People who describe in detail places they have never been to, or suddenly speak a foreign language

All these are urban legends. . . .give me one example of a person that suddenly begins to speak yoruba fluently without ever coming across a person that speaks yoruba before. We hear all these myths and urban legends all the time but they are all LIES. . . . .Give me just one example of some one that has never been exposed to a language that suddenly begins to speak it fluently. . . like a chinese man that has never been exposed to english but suddenly begins to speak the language. . . nothing like that exist. . . people tell a lot of lies all the time. . . .
   

3. Red Indians who can tell the location and condition of relatives by looking at the skies

. I have never heard about this one before but people believe in all sorts of weired nonsense, We hear stories about people using flying mats and brooms all the time so there is nothing new there. Some people even claim to have the ability to deflect bullets using charms .
   

4. Indian monks who levitate, or are buried alive for weeks at a stretch and emerge alive

You can be buried for months and emerge alive if you have a good supply of air and food to feed on inside the ground. People go down kilometers in coal and daimond mines all around the world, nothing supernatural there. NOBODY can be buried alive and survive in a coffin without air water and food to eat for 1 week its impossible. . . infact nobody can survive without air for 2 hours. . . . Its all a lie. . . again we hear stories about people that claim to deflect bullets using charms. . . . .

5. People who undertake out-of-body experiences

There has been so many scientific and medical (empirical)explanations for this. . . . . there is nothing supernatural about it at all. . . . .

6. Telepathy

There is nothing super natural about telepathy because not all communication is hearing actual words spoken or reading words. In fact communication doesn’t really even require language, telepathy doesn’t necessarily mean that thoughts in the form of spoken words or language are relayed via the mind. Many people who believe in telepathy will state that it’s more like impressions or feelings than it is actual conversation type language so there is nothing supernatural about it. . . . . .

Aside from these, can you please indicate your ideas as to how life arose on this earth, since you accept neither creationism or evolution. Doubtless, as a thinking person, the question must trouble or at least interest you, and surely you must have some personal ideas as to how it arose, ? Care to share? Or just plain dislocated?

The question about how the universe and humans came about does not trouble me at all. . .I personally have no idea and I am not interested in providing any at all. . . .I am very ok with saying that I don't know for now. . . .Any body that claims to know how the universe came about should provide evidence for it so far nobody has been able to do that all we have are ridiculous conjectures and hypothesis that I know are not true. . . . . .

mendax:
so mazaje if i am to understand your belief, u do not believe that humans were created but evolved fro an ape? sorry just trying to clarify your stand point

I don't believe in evolution, I don't know how humans came about and I will not accept empty platitudes and meaningless conjectures that I know are false just to make me feel good(evolution and creationism). I believed in my Christian faith and was very interested in it. So interested in fact that I wanted to learn more, to really understand from a knowledge based and rational basis, not just accept empty platitudes as truth. Unfortunately, (or rather fortunately) the more I dug for understanding the more I found that my faith was empty of thought and reason(Thats why people are encourage to accept it purely based on faith even when the claims it makes make no sense at all). It was only a shaky structure of baseless platitude piled on baseless platitude. After many years of soul searching, religious research, and reasoning, I finally found what I know is the truth  and that is there are no gods, satan, witches etc, only desperate people clinging to the idea of gods to satisfy their need to be "taken care of" by some "higher authority", while looking for a scape goat to blame for their misfortunes(satan, devil, witches etc) that usually comes about as a result of their own greed, ignorance, stupidity, wickedness and selfishness. . . . . .

Krayola2:
haha. In the words of US Senator Barney Frank, "Having a conversation with him (Davidylan) is like trying to argue with my kitchen table. I have no interest in doing that."

He lies to himself that people discard the creation myth because they don't want to abile by the rules of his god when there are a lot of christians that believe in what he calls the rule of his god without even believing in the creation accounts in genesis because they know that it is a myth. . . . . .

There are far more christians that believe in evolution here in europe than in the genesis accounts, most of the just call it an allegory. . . . . .

Chrisbenogor:
Hey how dare you do a disappearing act on your thread? theres laws against that you know? no my popcorn is finished!

Disappearing act for where? I came back and continued. . . . how body?