₦airaland Forum

DappaD:
The Bible’s answer
The Bible says that Jesus “was put to death in the flesh but made alive [resurrected] in the spirit.”​—1 Peter 3:​18; Acts 13:34; 1 Corinthians 15:45; 2 Corinthians 5:​16.

Jesus’ own words showed that he would not be resurrected with his flesh-and-blood body. He said that he would give his “flesh in behalf of the life of the world,” as a ransom for mankind. (John 6:​51; Matthew 20:28) If he had taken back his flesh when he was resurrected, he would have canceled that ransom sacrifice. This could not have happened, though, for the Bible says that he sacrificed his flesh and blood “once for all time.”—Hebrews 9:​11, 12.

If Jesus was raised up with a spirit body, how could his disciples see him?
• Spirit creatures can take on human form. For example, angels who did this in the past even ate and drank with humans. (Genesis 18:​1-8; 19:​1-3) However, they still were spirit creatures and could leave the physical realm.​—Judges 13:15-​21.
• After his resurrection, Jesus also assumed human form temporarily, just as angels had previously done. As a spirit creature, though, he was able to appear and disappear suddenly. (Luke 24:31; John 20:19, 26) The fleshly bodies that he materialized were not identical from one appearance to the next. Thus, even Jesus’ close friends recognized him only by what he said or did.​—Luke 24:30, 31, 35; John 20:14-​16; 21:​6, 7.
• When Jesus appeared to the apostle Thomas, he took on a body with wound marks. He did this to bolster Thomas’ faith, since Thomas doubted that Jesus had been raised up.​—John 20:24-​29.

Source: https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/jesus-body/
Visit JW.ORG

shadeyinka:
JW's believe that Jesus didn't resurrect with His body. They believe He resurrected as a SPIRIT!

Confirm if you will

MuttleyLaff:
"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself;
touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
(i.e. Look at my hands and feet, and see that it's really me.
Touch me, and see for yourselves. Ghosts/spirits don't have flesh and bones, but you can see that I do."
OR
Look at my hands. Look at my feet. You can see that it’s really me.
Touch me and make sure that I am not a ghost/spirit, because ghosts/spirits don’t have bodies, as you see that I do.”)"
- Luke 24:39

I'll take the Bible's words any time, all time 24/7/365 days over whatever falsehood JW promotes. Smh

PS: MightySparrow, hi, I am already running late stepping out for work, so will have to return asap once out on the road. Sorry

MaxInDHouse:
See confusion!

When we told you that you guys are deluded, you'll flare up to argue blindly.
If you go by the highlighted, was Thomas born again when Jesus presented a materialised body with wounds to make him (Thomas) believe in the resurrection of the Christ?

Is it not after they became Born Again that Paul later understood that Jesus resurrected as a spirit?

Walahi Talahi you guys are clowns!

Well you're partially right, only born again Christians can grasp these sacred secrets, that's why Jesus said to (his yet to become Born Again) followers "I still have many things to tell you but you can't grasp them now, but However when the spirit of truth comes he will guide you into all the truth" {John 16:12-13} So how do you now depend on what Jesus used to convince those who can't understand this sacred secrets to judge the truth?
Funny religionsists!

Ken4Christ:
The first step is to be born again. The second step is you receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

MaxInDHouse:
So by the time Jesus' few followers stick to his teachings when majority of them left {John 6:66} those 12 has become born again shey?
Yet Jesus later said about those who stick to him "i still have other things that i need to tell you but you can't grasp it all now" are you saying they are born again by then yet they can't grasp the deep things?

Ken4Christ:
They were not born again. They were fed with milk. The strong meat are contained in Pauline epistles. Even Apostle Peter commented on it. Only those who are born again and filled with the Holy Spirit can understand the epistles of Apostle Paul. He was the only Apostle that was given deep revelation concerning the new creation.

MaxInDHouse:
Hen nah, then why are you now saying people must become born again before they can accept Jesus' teachings when those first century Jews accepted his counseling without being born again?
This your stupidity is getting worse by the day o!

Blabbermouth:
Your bold claim of "He (Jesus Christ) is the self existent God incarnate" has no solid scriptural backing. The best we can get is "assumptions, maybe, what if, it is most likely" kind of proof.

Blabbermouth:
Alright.

Blabbermouth:
I never said the Holy spirit was created or claim otherwise.

Blabbermouth:
I will be writing a book if I were to answer this...
For now, we can all settle with - the Holy spirit is the spirit of God.

Blabbermouth:
Which Godhead? The Trinity? Sorry Bro, I don't buy the incarnation or simultaneous personality idea.

Blabbermouth:
(I would have answered differently)
The holy spirit is God's spirit (relationship BTW God and Holy spirit)
"The Spirit of the LORD GOD is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to say preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of prison to them that are bound" - Yeshua Ha Maschiach

Blabbermouth:
Because it is the spirit of the Holy one.

Blabbermouth:
Answer this please - there is an angel called the ANGEL OF THE LORD'S PRESENCE, what do you know of him?

Blabbermouth:
Lákô lákô ni mó wà bí íbõn.

AkinwaleJJ:
Trinitarians fabricated various contradicting definitions but it's all tailored to the same point:- "Jesus is no part of God's creation" Anyhow you put it doesn't matter, as long as you hold the idea that Jesus wasn't created you're a Trinitarian!

Blabbermouth:
Jesus was created!
Hahahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

AkinwaleJJ:
The highlighted is where all arguements is coming from!

Blabbermouth:
Was the Holy spirit created?

CuteNerdyDude:
Wait what Is SIMP? I get what OP is saying. But what is a SIMP?

Blabbermouth:
I'm sorry MuttleyLaff, I don't owe you that one. The onus was not on me in the first place, so when you asked "how did God harden Pharaoh's heart?", I gave you my condition(s):
Tell me
A. How Did God spoken words create a physical universe

AND/OR

B. The diverse ways God can harden a human's heart

Until then, either you settle with the plain words " I will harden Pharaoh's heart " or know within you (sure, you might not want to admit because of ego and preconceived notions) that your view was unscriptural and false.

Have a Nice Day.

donnie:
1&2 The Hebraic bible restored the word wrongly translated as Christian to MESSIANICS. You can also look up the Hebrew version of the gospel of Mathew

donnie:
3. They were called Christians by unbelievers at Antioch which at that time was a major metropolis in the Roman empire (the kingdom of ESAU/EDOM). These non-believers were either confusing the Messianic believers with the worshippers of Serapis, the pagan god or they called the believers Christianos in a derogatory manner.

donnie:
Christianos was a Greek word and those who called them that name were Greek speaking people and not the Messianics themselves.

donnie:
4. Why will I find that strange when they were not pagan worshippers of Serapis?

donnie:
5. NO. But how does it matter? You are already called that anyways. I'm an Isrealite period

donnie:
6. It was used in the Hebrew texts/versions.

donnie:
7. Those pagan Edomites called the MESSIANIC believers Christianos.

donnie:
8. I have told you what it meant to those of Antioch. To Aggrippa, the word meant MESSIANIC as has been restored in various Hebrew renderings of the text.

donnie:
9. Christus, Christianos, Christian.

donnie:
10. Are you drunk?

Janosky:
Cc: MuttleyLaff

MightySparrow:
transfiguration?

Acehart:
Rationalize MuttleyLaff’s behavior? Must I use harsh words or derogatory words on him before I drive home my point? If you have observed my responses in this thread and some others, I would reply anyone in gentleness; and rebuke wisely or simply ignore.

Do you know the meaning of the word “Boanerges”? If you knew, you would know that I rebuked MuttleyLaff by giving him that name; MuttleyLaff knows that was a subtle rebuke, I am sure of that. I also made him and all those inclined to toxicity to know that when you acquiesce that someone is your brother in Christ, you do away with such behavior.

Maybe you wanted me to use a lot of words to align him with decency; but there is wisdom in speaking as little as possible. The way you have spoken about him and his unfriendly responses, show you have to learn conflict resolution; it also shows you have something against him. God has given you NL to learn how to be a better person; MuttleyLaff is just a tool of refinement in the hands of God.

With respect to the trajectory you have spoken of, who would you rather have on threads that show the power of God through writings: kobo!junkie or MuttleyLaff? I am sure you would pick the latter. The trajectory is the way it is because people like both of you don’t write. If you did, your temperament would get better, ask I!bhaga!di. By now, MuttleyLaff’s bite would be like that of a sandfly.

So I place a challenge to you: write, and we would see that the trajectory would glide down to the glory of God.

livingchrist:
Yes Jesus was the messager ordained by God to bring in the new covenant so in a way he is an Angel but not an angelic creature which hebrews was talking about.
Also, humans can also be Angels too but you would agree with me that hebrews was not referring to an angelic office but rather the angelic creatures themselves.

Janosky:
John 11:27

She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming into the world.”

Compare John 3:16 to John1 1:27 & Romans 8:3.


Matthew 28:18, where did Jesus Christ acquire power to walk on water?


Triune idol worshippers FALSELY claiming they know more than Jesus Christ

donnie:
The actual Modern Hebrew Word used there is MASHIAHIYIM or in modern Hebrew MASHAICHIYM and not CHRISTIAN.

Don't deceive yourself.

nsiba:
And the old Hebrew one says

donnie:
The actual Hebrew Word used there is MASHIAHIYIM or in modern Hebrew MASHAICHIYM and not CHRISTIAN. In English, MESSIANICS.

Don't deceive yourself.

donnie: MASHIAHIYIM/MASHAICHIYM
Corrected

Durentt:
to not act on their natural same sex desires.

why??
or is it the devil that creates homosexual people?

religion is one of the principal reasons people hate homosexuals today.

MightySparrow:
Jesus walked on water and the disciples thought they saw a spirit. He transfigured before thee disciples before His death and resurrection.
1. Did he do this feats in glorious body?
2. Was He a spirit in His earthty ministry?

BlueAngel444:
the term angel means messenger of God, yes. Is Jesus not a messenger of God. Is he not sent by God. Is it not in the bible where an angel speaks to another about what should or is to be done.

But you are right to believe his existence is like none of the other angels and his glory and position far exceeds theirs but still He like every other angel of God that does God's will.

To answer your question God made Jesus, Lord and Christ, God honored him and glorified him, Yes he had exclusivity but then He is the prince of Israel, the commander in chief of God's army, the Angel of the Lord, the one who came, obeyed and was glorified. The one called, who is like God, the only one who is like God. Micha-el. The one with many names, Wonderful, Counsellor, prince of peace. A prince all demons have feared and still fear.

livingchrist:
Yes the term Angel means messager, which can be applied to both spirits and men but the book of hebrews was specific.
The Angel's mentioned in hebrews are the ministering spirits, so [b]Jesus cannot be an angel[/b].
Secondly, Jesus became a manager because he tool up that role just as he chosed to be a man.

MuttleyLaff:
"Mal'ak" or "malaika", is the Hebrew, while the angel word, comes from the Greek word, which is "angelos" Each words, whether Hebrew/English/Greek, simply means someone sent on an errand or sent to give a messenger. Case in point, Angel Gabriel, lmso.

Angels, in short, actually and simply just means messengers, and vice versa.

As a matter of fact, in the Bible, angels can be either human beings on earth or extra-terrestrial beings from the heavens on earth, lmso, (i.e. angelic beings) and so both human being messengers and extra-terrestrial beings messenger are often described using the same word angels.

Now, all non human beings MESSENGERS are extra-terrestrial beings, but not all extra-terrestrial beings are MESSENGERS. Same way, as a flesh and blood messengers are human beings, but not all human beings are messengers, lmso

In fact, interestingly enough, Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, appeared on earth at least four times, as the Angel of the Lord, lmso.

"And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge,
and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none
(i.e. I looked for someone who might rebuild the wall of righteousness that guards the land.
I searched for someone to stand in the gap in the wall so I wouldn’t have to destroy the land, but I found no one.)"
- Ezekiel 22:30

"He saw that there was no man—He was amazed that there was no one—to intercede;
so His own arm brought salvation, and His own righteousness sustained Him."
- Isaiah 59:16

"I was amazed to see that no one intervened to help the oppressed.
So I Myself stepped in to save them with My strong arm, and My wrath sustained Me
(i.e. I looked, but there was no one to help; I was shocked because there was no one offering support.
So My right arm accomplished deliverance or achieved salvation for Me, my raging anger drove Me on)"
- Isaiah 63:5

Of course, Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, is an Angel, Malachi 3:1 confirms Him being a Messenger. This is God, à la carte Ezekiel 22:30, Isaiah 59:16 and Isaiah 63:5 verses above, sending Himself on an errand. Praise God! Alleluia!!

WoundedLamb:
Heartwarming response

You might want to take out time to educate your friend above on how to engage people with decorum. His/her responses don't make room for non fallacious conversations.

MuttleyLaff:
You think too highly of your sanctimonious moralising on love self, who do you think has valuable and precious time to want to have a fight with you.

You think OP that opened the thread did so out of a dearth of love ni, hmm? Have you any idea what Matthew 28:19a means and is all about, erhn? That thread was purposely created so interested and curious minds could learn from it, but all you did was to waltz in to pooh pooh and piss on the fella's thread, strutting upandan all over the post, as if like an overpriced and over feathered peacock and ṣhitting on the post

If you dont want to know, then keep it to yourself, dont shoot down another man's innocent and harmless effort, with your defeatist, despondent dispirited and low self-esteem comments. It's posters like you with toxic comments like you made about someone's else post that stifles their gifting.

If you dont know things, you lack knowledge/wisdom, you're expected to God, who liberally, abudantly, and generously gives to all without finding fault (i.e. James 1:5) What's your problem sef? Who do you? Why pissing on another man's parade?

Go and dont slap the door after you

Acehart:
He is my brother; he is yours too. His real name is Boanerges.

You seem like one with a good head on his shoulders; it would be nice if you posted a lot of good things in this section. It’s horrifying seeing what the mods post on front page as Christian topics. It would be nice if someday “WoundedLamb” flooded this section with topics of divine concern that there wouldn’t be any reason for those men employed as mods to post airheaded topics that have nothing to do with Christian living.

I hope you begin today and surely, if it is nice, I would comment without any air of aggression, sneering or opposition.

jamesid29:
[s]@bolded would probably be the continued trajectory as long as you have people like MuttleyLaff who thrive on spreading toxicity and strife under the banner of Christainity on threads; and people like you sir, who rationalize and enable such behaviours, as you've done here.
Kindly compare Mark 3:17 to Luke 9:54-55(specifically 55) sir.
Unconditional love doesn't necessarily equate to unconditional acceptance of conduct sir.[/s]

Hahaha... my posts do to you, what salt does to earthworms. It's entertaining watching you wriggle helplessly

donnie:
[s]Pagan worshippers of Serapis were called Christians before MESSIAH was born.

h t tps://youtu.be/zeLdyQ_zQpk[/s]

kkins25:
i dey wait for the fabu wey muttleylaff go talk to defend this one...

johnw47:
happy short ban, sewer mouth fraud jw janosky

Barristter07:
Jesus have every right to say the above, doesn't mean he wasn't raised as a spirit.
When spirit's assume an human form, they claim to be flesh. That's what happened here.

MightySparrow:
1. You have not really given clear expianation.
2. Would we be able to transform and bodies subjected to carry wounds like that He showed his disciples based on your earlier post?
3. Do spirits have bodies? Luke 24: 39

Ken4Christ:
Both first and second death doesn't mean a cessation of existence. This is where your problem lies. The dead are conscious. Their souls lives on.

sagieramos:
God created Adam from the dust and breath into his nostril and he became a living soul (Gen 2:7). This means that dust and breath comes together to form a soul

Can a soul die?
The soul that sinneth, it shall die... —Ez 18:20a kjv

Yes, a soul can die and become dust. The above equation agrees with Ecc 3:20
All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. —Ecc 3:20 kjv

According to Ez 18:20, only those that have sinned will die. Who are those that have sinned?
"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." —Psalm 51:5, kjv
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom —3:23 kjv
Everyone have sinned according to the above Bible text

What does it mean for a soul to die?
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecc 9:5 kjv
A dead soul is unconscious of nothing. They don't have any memory, neither can they think of anything, nor feel pain. They are not tormented in hellfire so to speak...

Can the dead come back to life?
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
—Act 24:15 kjv

Another question I would like you to answer
On the day of resurrection, would Jesus call out those inside hellfire and heaven to be judged again?

Ken4Christ:
Yes, there are passages where the word soul also refers to the person. But just as many words can have multiple meanings depending on the context it is used. So, you have to determine the meaning of every word taking cognizant of the context it is used.

There are Scriptures that separates the soul from the body and from the spirit also. In this context, it doesn't refer to the total being.

Let's look at a few of them;

1Thesalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here, the Scripture separates the spirit, soul and body.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Here our Lord Jesus also separates the body from the soul. He said you can kill the body and not be able to keep the soul.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hear it says that God's word can divide the spirit from the soul.

One last example is concerning Jesus:

Acts 2:26-27
²⁶Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
²⁷Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Hear, it says God did not leave the soul of Jesus in hell and didn't allow his body to decay.

Even if you check out the dictionary meaning of soul, no dictionary will ascribe just one meaning to it. Check out what an online dictionary has to say about soul

1. (religion, folklore) The spirit or essence of a person usually thought to consist of one's thoughts and personality. Often believed to live on after the person's death. ▼ show
2. The spirit or essence of anything.
3. Life, energy, vigor. ▼ show
4.(music) Soul music.
5. A person, especially as one among many. ▼ show
6. An individual life.
Fifty souls were lost when the ship sank.
7. (math) A kind of submanifold involved in the soul theorem of Riemannian geometry.

You see the multiple meaning of the word soul. You are only emphasizing the sixth meaning. And it will be wrong to assume that is the meaning everywhere you see the word soul.

If you have problem understanding this, please go back to school.

MuttleyLaff:
¹⁸I also thought about the human condition—how God proves to people that they are like animals.
¹⁹For people and animals share the same fate—both breathe and both must die.
So people have no real advantage over the animals. How meaningless!
²⁰Both go to the same place—they came from dust and they return to dust.
²¹For who can prove that the human spirit goes up and the spirit of animals goes down into the earth?
- Ecclesiastes 3:18-21

I can provide more bible verse(s) apart from Ecclesiastes 3:18-21, if you so request for more.

Why would you expect animals to commit sin, when like I've already said that animals, unlike man, aren't made in the image of the Godhead and neither in the likeness of the Godhead

I wasnt expecting you to and still dont know why you could so quickly say, it seems I dont really understand the difference between the soul and spirit of a living being! OK, let's see how much you seem to really understand the difference between the soul and spirit of a living being
1/ Is it your Soul or spirit, that will give account for all the thoughts, deeds actions and words, you made whilst it was housed on earth in your body?
2/ What out of the two, the soul and spirit, goes back to God and the other goes to a waiting room, awaiting call to judgement?
3/ What out of the two, the soul and the spirit, God is going to destroy and that Satan is after?
4/ What out of the two, the soul and the spirit, escapes as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers?
5/ Why is the prayer about the trio, spirit, soul and body, as put below, so necessary?:
"May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ"
6/ Psalm 51:10: "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." is a very popular bible verse, I am sure you are familiar with. Why isnt the soul mentioned, to be renewed for a right soul, huh?

DappaD:
Stg man, you're so emotional.
You're the same person who accused Solomon of writing incorrect statements at Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 just because you don't want to accept that the dead know nothing at all.

When JW's tell you the truth, you won't calm down and learn.
JWs say wicked people will be destroyed forever in a “lake of fire” meaning a death without hope for resurrection and with no trace of existence. And it so happens that our claims are scriptural —Psalm 37:10, 104:35, Proverbs 2:22, Revelation 21:8 but you on the other hand want people to literally burn forever in your mythical apologetic nonsense of a ‘hellfire’ which has no scriptural backing BUT you still claim it is JW's who are devilish and demonic.
Can't you see the irony here?

shadeyinka:
JW's believe that Jesus didn't resurrect with His body. They believe He resurrected as a SPIRIT!

Confirm if you will