₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
Again...Bearing what fruit? Your idea of fruits differ from that spoken of by Jesus Christ in that context.

I get from your reading of chapter 15 what your understanding is, what I dont get is how you feel you have answered the question I have asked several times now about the fruit Jesus Christ spoke of.

Here is the question again plainly... Jesus Christ is he vine and each of us a branch on the vine. What fruit are each branch expected to bear as individual followers of Jesus Christ, when as explained in John 15?

The end result of the following:

John 15:27 But you also will testify and be My witnesses, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

This is what Christ meant when He said go and bear fruits and that it should last.

Clergy20:
But the pastor has told you the reason why he was sacked, instead of believing him, you rather want us to believe it's because he didn't win souls to the church. I don't understand how the example this man is giving explains what transpired with the person that was sacked. That you've an example of a pastor that abandoned his duty in the church to pursue other things, doesn't mean all pastors who are sacked committed the same offence. This man said he was dismissed because he didn't make enough revenue, that's his own reason, other pastors may have theirs. You can't paint all of them with the same brush.

So, you believed the Pastor instead of hearing from both sides first. You are quick to judge the Church (with several Pastors) but support one who you don't know if he was telling the truth or not.

The heart of a man is desperately wicked is what the Bible says. This Pastor didn't give a full detail of what transpired rather he chose to speak bad of the church. Now, let me ask you this, why wait till some years before sacking if it is about the money?

Let's now look at it as a business which you probably are looking at this, will you give an employee some years before taking actions when he is not making money for the company? If you say yes, then this discussion isn't necessary as no employer will wait for some years before sacking when he is not getting results.

My view is also to paint another side which nobody wants to look at but just want to stick to the pastor and crucify the church as we always do nowadays since this is what trends. Anything from the church must be opposed and seen as a business making venture.

Kobojunkie:
Bearing what fruit? Your idea of fruits differ from that spoken of by Jesus Christ in that context.

I see and understand what Jesus Christ is saying there in John 15, what I dont see is the connection you have severally attempted in making of that with your "witnessing".

When Christ started with the vine and the Disciples being the branches, what do you think He was pointing at?

For you to understand the chapter, I will try explain better to you. Christ was about leaving and was recounting every experience He had with the Disciples explaining how he chose them and how they remained in Him throughout, with Christ feeding them with the word of God (helping them grow in this). Now, it is time for Christ to leave, he is then letting them know of the need to continue from where he stopped (witnessing) and how He won't leave them without the Holyspirit in witnessing. He prepared their minds on being ready to face oppositions just the way he faced his.

I believe with the above, I have been able to make you see and understand better what the message was about in being the vine, the disciples being the branches and the need for them to bear fruits.

We read in full to understand the Author's intended meaning alone and not pick verses in isolation to pass a different view.

I hope with this explanation, I have clarified the place of witnessing.

After reading John 15 from verse 1, check the last verse to understand why Jesus talked about bearing fruits.

Kobojunkie:
You told me that context is key so I don't dwell on certain verses but instead the message provided in context.

I dont believe in interpreting scripture since it is written in human language to be comprehended as one would any other text written in human language by human authors.

I have read the chapter and nothing of the chapter speaks to me about "testifying". From the much I know, we testify because it is one of the commandments given us by Jesus Christ to go out as "witnesses" preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which He taught to anyone who will hear it . So, I ask again, what part of John 15 speaks to you of "testifying"?

What is the fruit you believe Jesus Christ speaks of in that context.

It shows that you didn't read the chapter. If you had read as a whole, you will see the essence of bearing fruit and all Christ was trying to explain there.

Kobojunkie:
So, where in John 15 do you get to this text about "witnessing" from?

I have asked you questions which you didn't reply to. I answered your question and also told you to read a particular verse. I also told you not to dwell on certain verses but read the chapter to the end to understand the Author's intended meaning and not your inferred meaning.

So, please read the Bible chapter than ask me questions that I have answered. When you get to the end of the chapter (final part of the chapter), ask yourself what is the essence of testifying?

Kobojunkie:
What is the fruit in that context?

The text talks about witnessing. The place of abiding in Christ and then, going out to witness.

Context is key.

Kobojunkie:
I am glad you agree that context is key to reading the Bible. So in the context that is John 15 vs 1 - 11, what is the fruit that Jesus Christ says we are to bear as those who abide in Jesus Christ ?

What is the essence of the mentioned fruits to our existence as followers of Jesus Christ?

Did you read verse 16? This was why I mentioned the need to read the whole chapter. Also, did you see what ended chapter 15?

Context is always important.

Sanchez01:
I know how pentecostal churches function quite well. If you have issues with the church, IT WILL BE SPELT IN YOUR LETTER OF DISMISSAL but nowhere in that letter did the church state that the pastors left their primary places of assignments. Plus, full time pastors rely solely on the monthly earning from the church. IF THE PASTORS WERE ASSIGNED THEN IT MEANS THEY WERE ON THE CHURCH'S PAYROLL.

The letter below took them up on GROWTH INDEX and not negligence. I have seen these things up close TOO MANY TIMES. Yes, pastors have KPIs, as surprising as it is and it is what is used in determining their performance. Interestingly, RETURNS is the summary of their KPIs. A sign your church is doing well is the number of MONTHLY RETURNS and sign that it is not is the LOW RETURNS. I have seen pastors queried, redeployed and even demoted FOR NOT GROWING THEIR CHURCH.

All these explanations are just excuses on behalf of the modus operandi of Pentecostalism in Nigeria. The model is American and it is a disgusting one.

Money isn't the KPI but your mindset based on the trends in Nigeria, which made you see money as this.

Now, to correct your wrong notion. If you are the newly recruited sales manager of a company and you didn't bring in new customers. Rather, what the company had was just their existing customers transacting with them even when the money constantly comes in. Be the judge, will the company judge you by money or by the number of customers you have brought?

Now let's look at this spiritual body, souls are not won for Christ but the Pastor just enjoys his steady salary and accommodation. Should those in charge not do anything about this even after years of service in this church?

I have learnt first hand on church growth and the concerns of leaders. They are always concerned about the number of souls won with the Pastor of the newly established church also providing monthly report on evangelism and church programmes. They even go to the extent of sending support team to assist in the area of evangelism (I speak based on my denomination).

It is the recent and usual mindset in Nigeria that has made people to say all sorts to the church.

Please, also understand that the heart of a man can only be known by God. The said pastor did not in anyway say what he also have done wrong rather he gave a one sided report of how LFC is evil in sacking him.

jesusjnr2020:
It's a shame but not a surprise that a senior pastor of winner's chapel doesn't know what it mean to bear fruits in the Kingdom sense of the phrase, how much more those who they lead?

Even John the baptist of the Law and the prophets knew what it meant to bear fruits. He said to the Pharisees:

Luke 3:8-9 (KJV)

Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

So the fruits in question are the good fruits (proof) of true repentance, in other words, evidence to show that one has truly repented, hence it's if one doesn't have such evidence or the good fruits (proof) of true repentance that the axe would be laid to the root of that tree to bring it down and it would be cast into the fire, which is an illustration of eternal damnation.

But what are these good fruits one needs to bear so as not to suffer such a fate?

Luke 3:10-14 (KJV)

And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

So according to John the Baptist, it has to do with the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

This aligned with Christ's parable of the sower where the seed which is the Word of God is sown into people's heart, and it's when they keep the Word that they are said to have borne fruits.

Luke 8:11 (KJV)

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Luke 8:15 (KJV)

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

So as you can see, bearing fruits had nothing to do with growth of church membership but the spiritual growth of an individual, which is evidenced by the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

Hence one can still be having strong church membership growth and yet not be bearing fruits according to what it actually means to bear fruits, because the person is a worker of iniquity and not keeping God's Word.

That's how the axe was yet laid to the roots of the trees of those many anointed ministers and Christians who worked of iniquity Jesus spoke about, despite that their church membership would have grown tremendously because of the signs and wonders that followed them, because to bear fruits means keep the Word of God and that they didn't do.

God bless.

Knowledge they say puffs up and I would advise that you shouldn't be quick to judge others based on your knowledge of the scripture. To be quick to say this Pastor doesn't know what it means to bear fruit is really wrong in every sense. You should have understood the context from which he spoke rather than tackle him on a different perspective which does not relate to what he said.

In the context of the Bible verses you quote, there is the fruit of repentance but this does not in anyway say there are no other fruits. There is bearing of fruits, the fruit of the spirit and several others. To bear fruits can also mean witnessing and winning souls for Christ.

Kindly read John Chapter 15 completely. During the course of reading this, please take note of verses 2 and 16.

Context is key when studying the Bible.

Also winning souls still require fellowship. The Disciples are very good examples of these. They still encouraged fellowship even after winning souls.

Shalom!!

Mustiboy:
So, if I understand very well, pastors are tasked with bringing people to the church by all means, even if it means invading their privacy and compelling them to come to your church?

Is this not the idea of more members, more revenue?

It's now glaring that today's churches are business enterprises; churches, since time immemorial, have always been so.

Nothing dey shock me again.

Even with the explanation, your focus is the money.

I know of a church where the Pastor wasn't paid a dime as salary but the concern of the Pastor was always the growth of the church. This one still collects salary and still went to social media to give half side of the story. Did he mention the state of the church he met and the result achieved after 4 years of being a pastor of the church? The answer is NO. He won't mention this but will focus on how to paint the other party bad. Money isn't the focus but winning souls for any serious and kingdom minded church.

michlins:
So your wife is now the yardstick on how to eat in public even though she eats like a goat abi.


Living with manners isn't forming. It's what differentiates us from the beasts in the wild.

Eat like this anywhere and I will jakpa

Where is the manner in ladies going out just to waste your funds by leaving some portion of the food? Is it manners also to waste resources?

Please, she didn't eat like a goat as you said. Rather, she was being real unlike those who form whereas dying inside to consume the food.

Also, for you to Japa means you will wait for the surprises in marriage. It's best being real than asking yourself in the marriage - how did I end up with her as at that stage there is no more forming. Will you also japa in marriage?

I see this response by Shehu Garba as defending bandits and not in anyway defending the president.

Officialgarri:
Planes are beginning to fall even when not at war.

Is it incompetence, negligence of weather condition or poor maintenance?

Can't be maintenance because a whole COAS would not fly in a poorly maintained aircraft

Please, also include Saboteurs.

These foolish people make it seem as if all the 36 states in Nigeria don't use phone and don't have access to Internet.

Nigeria is just one sick country. Should this be even subjected to debate or vote in 21st Century? What is the government even doing towards achieving the UN Sustainable Development Goals 2030?

Only God knows who cursed us in this country? Blessed but act like we are cursed.

ThEGodFaThEr103:
Same way Kemi Adeoshun ran faster than Usain Bolt after presenting forged Oluwole NYSC certificate.

And Stella Oduah had to be given red card for buying armoured vehicles after turning International airport to local airport with substandard materials.

Illuminatiship:
Because of greed even with ill health Africans will want to die in a particular position...

Why conclude this way? From the video, is this what you could arrive at?

I really don't understand this comment of yours

When it comes to armed forces killing bandits, they will give overblown figures of those who died but when it comes to bandits retaliating, they give small figures of death.

We know in both cases that the government lies and will never give the real figure. We also know that in both cases, the figure of death cases from the retaliation by bandits is always higher than that of the armed forces.

COMPAQ:
When our leaders and we the followers are ready to do the needful, we will progress. You that you are talking, I can't guarantee if I put you in charge of N2bln, N1bln of if it will not disappear.

That's why the country has not progressed when you keep looking for the politicians who will steal over 50% of the money rather than give it to genuine and sincere people who will do the right thing. You are also the problem of Nigeria.

Ask yourself why projects handled by private sectors like churches are less expensive than the same ones handled by the government? Is it not the same Nigeria? Or are these churches in another country entirely?

Also, ask yourself how come Redeem did handled a road project at a cost lesser than even the mobilisation fee paid contractor by FG?

Please, does this not show that you are part of the problem with this mindset of yours?

COMPAQ:
The product of Chinese vocational training school is better than most Nigerian graduates. Give credit to who credit is due. Go to China and see how the country has been turned around in 50 years.

So, China also thought like Nigeria while turning things around in 50 years, right?

Slavery mentality has kept us from progressing till date.

loswhite:
Go and check the Chinese company handling the railway contract and then show me the name of the local contractor that you would have preferred

This is why Nigeria can never grow. Tell me if China worked with the mindset as Nigeria to get to where it is today.

This guy never learns to just shut up. Rather his self conceited nonsense keeps pushing him to spew rubbish. So, if the local contractors are not good enough, it is the Chinese company that is okay with many of the Chinese just being products of vocational training schools and yet, act as superior (or boss) to the locals which degree. Just a sick country.

Amaechi is just one sick fellow.

They think we will believe a party of lairs. All they do is to dish out lies. Sick party.

Hundredfold4lif:
"And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, ALLELUIA; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:" REVELATION 19:1.

That braggart of a grace teacher is a big ........( I reserve my conclusion for the sake of GOD!)

You don't need to reserve this. He has a problem of wanting to say something new. So, this at times come with error.

collinsfhk:
It simply means he does not believe the bible itself. Not surprised though.

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Not that he doesn't believe in the Bible, his problem is that he always want to come up with something new. Always wanting to say something new.

In this time, one just need to guard the salvation once received.

authority2006:
You have Facebook to expose your exposure now

Facebook can't be compared with Twitter especially when it comes to trending topic.

They don't want twitter in Nigeria. All these are just ways of ensuring twitter doesn't grow as before in Nigeria. So, all their dirty linens won't be exposed to the whole world.

The lady in question is not hiding anything from you and I don't think she has any thing with the choir master for her to tell you this on phone.

The choir master on the other hand is looking forward to serious rehearsals with your lady in the name of night visit (they are currently at the stage of voice training (visit) prior to the main rehearsal (intimacy)).

It is your duty to ensure that the voice training does not lead to serious rehearsal. Once it leads to rehearsal, bros just forget it, the end product is ministration (relationship). This you must do by introducing your own personal voice coaching (discussion with her plus visit to her).

Order changed. By mere looking at this picture, you will see that there is order despite the traffic congestion.

I hope this government is learning from the move made through social media.

How is Buhari building a plant? This is a private investment. He only made it necessary for the company to come invest in Nigeria. How is this in anyway special? So, if he attracts foreign investment in Nigeria, does it mean the investment is being carried out by Buhari? Isn't this what his government is meant to do on a normal day?

Either he is missing in Nigeria or has forgotten the records available on insecurity. Insecurity has been worse even before SARS was disbanded.

This government is just a sick one. Always looking for every reason to justify failure.

Fasindo:





Thank God for her successful delivery.

Well I don't know whether to believe this or not cos Sowore hardly says the truth

The child should be name prisoner.
Emerging being a prisoner from birth.
So the child place of birth will written prison instead of hospital.

I really don't understand you. Is it that you lack human feelings or you just chose to be heartless or wicked? An innocent baby to be named that just shows the state of your heart.