₦airaland Forum

Monogamy:


Igboho and his lawyers are not smart.. If he is repatriated to Nigeria, Buhari can't do anything to him than to put him in prison while his court case go on, within 6 months he would be granted bail and life goes on.

Should he decides to remain in Benin, FG would only pressurize Benin republic to enact their law about the fake documents Igboho used to obtain Benin Republic passport.. No way he won't spend 5 years in Benin prison.

Common sense shouldn't only be common in this case, it should always be available..

There is nothing like fake documents. His lawyer knocked this off saying all documents are genuine and there is no case on this. You should listen to the facts from BBC Yoruba when they visited Benin to get the details.

Repatriation is the only matter here.

DoggoneDogg:
So why was he weeping like a baby when we shined light on his scarred face??

I have explained it in my previous comment. Make your findings and have a clear picture that assuming things. BBC (Yoruba) visited Benin just to get the facts.

DoggoneDogg:
This is why you cannot let an illiterate dictate to you.

Sunday Igboho the uneducated Afonja terrorist will be sentenced to 21 years imprisonment in a Benin Republic gulag come tomorrow.

Are you now the judge and on what ground?

If you believe the illegal passport thing, know that it is fake news. His lawyer has said there is no case on passport. Rather, the matter is on the Nigerian government trying to bring him back to Nigeria to face legal charges.

It's really sad that as a Nation we have gotten to this level. How will you accredit selected press to cover a trial that should be made public?

Why has Nigeria turned to a nation of ridicule all in the name of the interest of selected few? It is really sad being a Nigerian in a time as this.

nuban07:
Even though taking his life is not the solution. I'm sure he took his life not bcoz of the money but bcoz of the betrayal.

You scam people but u never can say their state of heart emotionally, his blood is on the hands of the scammer

You are definitely right. It's sick how these scammers give reasons why they need to scam people without concerns for how this will affect the other person.

His blood is definitely on the scammer.

Gambit23:
Nah, U meant to say it pains u cuz in called the lying pastor ur God??

Na wa o.... Why give yourself headache on this matter?

Gambit23:
Oyedepo is ur God.

Just admit it. It pains you to see him succeed. You can't stop him so end the hatred.

Gambit23:
Ur God oyedepo has turned soul winning into a competition.

IGBO land is 99.99% Christians, any attempt to start winning souls in a state with 99.99% Christian's means u are coming to drag memebrs to ur church so that u can start receiving more money.

Oyedepo wants money and nothing more. If those 40 pastors was making 1.5 million naira for him monthly, he will never ever sack dem.

See reasoning. It is your hatred for the man that makes you talk and reason this way. Why fill yourself with so much hatred?

So you know I don't attend his church and I don't hold any G.O in high esteem above my God but one thing I know is this - the scriptures alone is my guide.

If you claim he wants money why not establish a church and see how easy it is to make the money most especially in a rural community.

Shalom!!

Gambit23:
U CITED NO EXAMPLE.

Over 99% of the places I listed are Christians.

Oga there are not many who haven't entered church before, Stop forming baseless premises to support ur false claims.







I REPEAT IT AGAIN, HOW DOES YOU AND OYEDEPO EXPECT PASTORS IN CHRISTIAN STATES TO DRAG CHRISTIANS IN CATHOLIC AND ANGLICAN + OTHER PENTECOSTALS TO LEAVE THEIR OWN CHURCH AND BECOME MEMEBRS OF WINNERS CHURCH.

What example do you need again? Do you want names of people residing in the states. That you have many churches in a Christian state does not in any way suggest that everyone goes to church.

There is no dragging here, it is only happening in your head. Soul winning is not a church competition except that's what it means to you.

Gambit23:
Pls answer my question, stop derailing it

I have answered you. Not everyone is a Christian in the states you mentioned. I have also cited an example except if you are not honest enough to accept this truth.

In every so called Christian states there are still many who have not stepped into a church as they don't see any reason to acknowledge their Maker

The submission by the Op gives me headache.

This is the problem we face in Nigeria. Equating an herdsman to mean same as Shepherd. I really don't understand where in anyway they mean same thing.

Herdsmen and Shepherd are two different people taking care of different animals.

Gambit23:
So let's use Enugu, Anambra, Bayelsa and Ekiti as case study, these areas are well over 99% Christians...So the new churches Oyedepo planted in these states, where will they win souls and bring them to their winners church since everyone in those states are Christians attending catholic, Anglican and other Christian denominations.

Even in my area here there are still people who neither go to mosque nor church. All they do is to enjoy life and don't see any need to honour their Maker. Except if you don't want to be honest with this truth.

Egabs:
Hmmmmmm the pastor's that are sack bcus according to oyedipo they are not fruitful what was his measurements of fruitfulness . Will the pastor's force church members to repent or I don't get it , this reasons doesn't hold water at all. Or before they are employed they are giving numbers of soul they are to present to the head quarter that have repented or what I don't get it we should just stop decieving ourselves the reason and the latter giving to the pastor was in open .

It is easy to understand but you are bent on just speaking against Oyedepo.

Imagine, you are a sales manager of a milk brand and we all know that there are several other milk brands. Now, there is the class of people who have not tried any of the milk brands available. Isn't it your job to ensure that this untapped class of people is brought to your brand? Now, in bringing these people to your own company, the company salutes you for knowing your job because you brought these people to your own company. They don't place priority on money but on the fact that you were able to convince these people to use your brand.

Now back to the issue spiritually, a church is established in a rural area and there are people who have not given their lives to Christ, will the Pastor who was employed for the purpose of winning these people to Christ fold his arms and wait for salaries? Besides, know that reports are given by these same pastors based on the assignment placed in their hands.

I hope I have been able to clarify your concerns.

PotatoSalad:
Been a Catholic all my life and this is the biggest lie ever told.
If Father Oluoma (the popular Abuja priest) is a prosperity preacher and makes ostentatious declarations every Sunday mass, he'd be 1000x bigger today.
People want to worship where they'll hear they'll do this, build that, meet this within a certain time. Declarations that are near impossible, but that's what miracles are anyway
Check that priest's congregation, it's always scanty.
Instead of him to tell you that you'll build a house in 6 months, he'll educate you on ways you can achieve that. People don't want to work long. They want to get it the easy way, and that's why prosperity preachers are always sought after and hence, the growth you're talking about.
Why is it that HOT pastors are invited during church harvest to minister? Cos they have that sweet tongue that will make everyone empty their pockets.

You have a point there and I am not in anyway against this view of yours on prosperity messages. I have only told you that I can't speak for Oyedepo but judging from what he said I can say the Pastor might be sacked. I then went further to tell you my own view, money isn't the measure of church growth. Till you understand the way it operates in other denominations, it is until then you will know what church growth truly entails especially for a newly established church (not to mention that it is in a rural location).

Being a Catholic does not in anyway mean Catholic also has a perfect system. Besides, there are several Catholic churches that record large attendance, can you then say their priest isn't telling them the truth? Father Oluoma you referenced too is not also perfect and he has his own flaws too.

Gambit23:
Church growth from where?

Will d pastor force other Christians in catholic, Anglican and other Pentecostals to permanently join winners church?

That's why it is soul winning and not denomination members winning.

Soul winning has to do with those who don't know Christ.

PotatoSalad:
Let's just be honest and stop beating about the bush.



Is this true or not?

The scenario painted is not the case and I can't speak for Oyedepo but from his analysis, the person will be sacked. Money isn't the first measure of church growth.

Adetee17:
Let's Imagine a small Winners Chapel branch in Ikoyi has around 50-70 members consisting of High brow and well to do people who each drop Thousands of Naira as offering or tithe.

Then there's another branch at Ajegunle with around 150-170 members which consists of mainly paupers and low class individuals who drop around 50-100 Naira as offering and barely pay tithe.

I guess we all know which of them Daddy GO would've tagged unproductive

Holds no water at all and it's off this topic in every sense. I hope you know that all the churches are in rural locations.

PotatoSalad:
Beat your chest and say what he said isn't true.
Make you no go choke

Choke over what? Someone is not saying the truth here as I won't believe him till he comes out to say his own side in the matter. You can't paint the other party bad and avoid your own side of the matter.

I have learnt to always give a balanced report so whoever will hear will say my fault and the fault of the other person.

Left to me, if I were to account on the issue, I will give details of everything I did and how unjustly they treated me at the end (if it happened). In this way, you have justified yourself but what this pastor did was just to raise the usual against the church which if truly he had followed the Bible he preaches, he won't have done in the first instance.

PotatoSalad:
Hatred ko. Truth they say is bitter. It hurts.
People like you hate others for being blunt. When you reach house tonight, take a moment to ponder over it. U hear?

Blunt or you mean not being honest. When a man does not tell his own side of the matter but points the other party's fault just know he is not telling the truth.

HedwigesMaduro:
So, if the church grew in population from 50 to 250 in one year, how do you quantify the souls won there?

This is why you need to ask questions than conclude. I belong to a different denomination and I can tell you what happens when a daughter church is established. The Pastor of the daughter church reports monthly to the mother church (the church council). Part of what he is to report on is the attendance to weekly programme, report on evangelism carried out for the month. This includes number of times evangelism was done for the month and the numbers of new convert from this and how many of them now worship in the church. For special programmes, they also give reports on number of those who gave their lives to christ and what the church is doing to help them grow spiritually.

I am also aware that the mother church also sends representative to the daughter church to assist in evangelism and also to check level of progress there.

I believe with the above, I have been able to clarify some areas. I was once an executive of a mother church and had the privilege of seeing the pastor of the daughter church give his report like every other church executive.

BafanaBafana:
Well, I don't hate the church, I don't really see Winners as a church too. It's more of a religious profit making organization. Oyedepo brags about creating jobs opening branches, etc. Is that what Christ sent us to do?
The only thing sacred in those Pentecostal organizations and is the pastor.
For instance, a girl will wake up from her boyfriend's house and go and lead praise and worship on Sunday morning. No regard for God.
A guy will go to church to pick girls, no regard for God. But once you insult their pastors... serious problem

Hmmm..... I am not a member of winners but I believe Oyedepo wanted to knock off the believe that sacking the pastor was due money not being generate. Hence, the reason for the job creation thing.

Your final submission on individuals is definitely right. Fear of God is missing nowadays and there are little messages out there that remind people on those sacred part of Christianity. Focus is on prosperity and this is affecting the spirituality of members.

PotatoSalad:
Clown
That guy is absolutely right.

Gullible.

Your hatred for the church has made you believe anything. Did the man tell you his own side in the matter? NO, all he did was to paint the church bad. This is typical of any human being when things does not favour him or go his own way. He speaks evil of the other party. The heart of man is desperately wicked.

OloshoMan:
Since God called them, Why not wait for God to sack them automatically from heaven, or is it now that you people know that the most effective way is human action not by praying.

When God called them, did LFC stop them from operating in the calling elsewhere?

God called them, they were employed somewhere to function. If you don't function, what's the next thing to do?

So, when you go to school and become a graduate in a field and you are employed but do not meet expectations, should the employer rely on the fact that you are a graduate and keep you in his company?

HedwigesMaduro:
How do they quantify how many souls won? By the number of people in the church?

You shouldn't ask this question honestly.

If there are people who do not know Christ and they are preached to, with some giving their lives to Christ, will you abandon them after giving their lives to Christ? What is the right and sensible thing to do?

Except maybe you feel winning souls mean you go meet a deeper life member and start forcing them to go to winners.

I just don't understand questions as this.

Jack14:
He wouldn't say it because of income na
Besides no soul no income

In rural areas, how much will they gather to pay a pastor's salary and grant him free accommodation first before generating more fund for the headquarters. Then, also remember church expenses too as it is not just programmes but expenses are involved in church weekly activities.

Before you type something else I had a first hand experience in a rural area where a church was established. In fact, the Pastor in charge wanted to give up if not for the fact that he believed God's calling wasn't a mistake.

FarahAideed:
My sister by fruitful he means they were not attracting enough people and that translates to low income

It does not translate to low income. It only translates to the Pastor just being after the monthly salary and free accommodation.

BafanaBafana:
The sacked pastor in this case was explicitly told about income. He was told the church should be able to generate money to run itself, and shouldn't be running at loss.
They made a mistake in giving him the explanation, thinking he won't go public because of the fear of the wrath of God, but nigga is a Tiv man, dem no dey fear like that, he spilt everything.
Imagine if the church was in bonny island, and they couldn't grow in numbers, but have a fat income, would they sack the pastor?
Besides, when they talk about winning souls, do they mean leading people to Christ, or bringing members to their church? Because I don't see why you will be dragging someone who is attending a church already to come to your church, claiming to be winning souls.
Furthermore, I don't know if I have ever seen a living faith member who is living a Christlike life. Church is just gymnastic for most of them. The only thing they take seriously is paying of tithe, which is the emphasis of their messages by the way

Where you there when he was told it's all about income? Was it stated in the letter made available online? What proof do you have of this allegations against the church?

Sometimes, I just wonder why people have this hatred in them against the church. Now, you want to support the pastor without verifying if this is true or not because you just need any ground to attack the church.

Back to some of the issues you raised, will souls won be left roaming the street or led to attend church for spiritual growth? Or do you abandon someone won to Christ and not followup on his spiritual growth? Even the Bible affirms this.

You don't have to see any LFC members living godly life, it's not meant for you to see but for God to see. Judgment day does not take into consideration what you see but what God saw. Let's be guided.

Now, the truth is out. I am sure some will still be blinded by hatred for the church and still say all sorts.

Kobojunkie:
How did you come to the conclusion that that is the 3end result and the fruit we are to bear as branches on the vine?

I read the chapter as a whole. So, the conclusion is there as I didn't write this myself.

Why did Jesus use the word 'go and bear fruit' then told them to be ready for opposition before the conclusion to witness.

I have shown you the witnessing part but you still keep asking questions which I don't understand anymore. Do you want me to say what wasn't written or what?

Bible should be read in its context and not taken out of context.

Kobojunkie:
Again...Bearing what fruit? Your idea of fruits differ from that spoken of by Jesus Christ in that context.

I get from your reading of chapter 15 what your understanding is, what I dont get is how you feel you have answered the question I have asked several times now about the fruit Jesus Christ spoke of.

Here is the question again plainly... Jesus Christ is he vine and each of us a branch on the vine. What fruit are each branch expected to bear as individual followers of Jesus Christ, when as explained in John 15?

The end result of the following:

John 15:27 But you also will testify and be My witnesses, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

This is what Christ meant when He said go and bear fruits and that it should last.

Clergy20:
But the pastor has told you the reason why he was sacked, instead of believing him, you rather want us to believe it's because he didn't win souls to the church. I don't understand how the example this man is giving explains what transpired with the person that was sacked. That you've an example of a pastor that abandoned his duty in the church to pursue other things, doesn't mean all pastors who are sacked committed the same offence. This man said he was dismissed because he didn't make enough revenue, that's his own reason, other pastors may have theirs. You can't paint all of them with the same brush.

So, you believed the Pastor instead of hearing from both sides first. You are quick to judge the Church (with several Pastors) but support one who you don't know if he was telling the truth or not.

The heart of a man is desperately wicked is what the Bible says. This Pastor didn't give a full detail of what transpired rather he chose to speak bad of the church. Now, let me ask you this, why wait till some years before sacking if it is about the money?

Let's now look at it as a business which you probably are looking at this, will you give an employee some years before taking actions when he is not making money for the company? If you say yes, then this discussion isn't necessary as no employer will wait for some years before sacking when he is not getting results.

My view is also to paint another side which nobody wants to look at but just want to stick to the pastor and crucify the church as we always do nowadays since this is what trends. Anything from the church must be opposed and seen as a business making venture.

Kobojunkie:
Bearing what fruit? Your idea of fruits differ from that spoken of by Jesus Christ in that context.

I see and understand what Jesus Christ is saying there in John 15, what I dont see is the connection you have severally attempted in making of that with your "witnessing".

When Christ started with the vine and the Disciples being the branches, what do you think He was pointing at?

For you to understand the chapter, I will try explain better to you. Christ was about leaving and was recounting every experience He had with the Disciples explaining how he chose them and how they remained in Him throughout, with Christ feeding them with the word of God (helping them grow in this). Now, it is time for Christ to leave, he is then letting them know of the need to continue from where he stopped (witnessing) and how He won't leave them without the Holyspirit in witnessing. He prepared their minds on being ready to face oppositions just the way he faced his.

I believe with the above, I have been able to make you see and understand better what the message was about in being the vine, the disciples being the branches and the need for them to bear fruits.

We read in full to understand the Author's intended meaning alone and not pick verses in isolation to pass a different view.

I hope with this explanation, I have clarified the place of witnessing.

After reading John 15 from verse 1, check the last verse to understand why Jesus talked about bearing fruits.