₦airaland Forum

@~Lady~:

That is the God that I have. One that loves me enough to sacrifice himself for me.

You answered no, when you were asked if your god punished himself in order to forgive, saved or salvage you! Then you turn around and say that te same god sacrificed himself for you. Read it again. Read it again. Lets think together: If this god of yours was wiped until a whole bunch of laxarations covered his body and blood gushed out as if it was water fountain. If they put on his head a wreath of thorns, and then make him carried his execution material, the cross, until he is tired that he was dragging the cross.


If he then in the long run was wiped and then mounted on the cross and nailed hard on it. If he was then exhausted and then finally cried out, my God (indicating that he was talking to another God, apart and separate from himself), my God (a repeat of the first), why has thou forsaken me?. And then he gave up the ghost. Would you therefore state that that was not punishments that he experienced, throughout and along the way?


Would you then suggest that he enjoyed it? If he did not enjoy it, since he showed sign of fatigue and weariness, then he must have suffered! No one suffered and denied that he was not punished. The only people who will suffer and say it is not punishment, are the sadists. Tell me what you mean.

The always selective in memory, David. What happened to your googleing the Bible and also theQur'an yourself. You conveniently pay no attention to all the verses we hav asked you to tell us in plain english, their direct meanings. You are also ignoring Shephard Herma's detail. Is this how to be sincere in discuss?

@M_Nwankwo:

Even before you digest the answer to earlier questions, you come up with more questions. The crux of the discussion is "did God create evil". I have stated clearly that God didnot create evil. I have stated my reasons for saying so. If you dispute them, then give you reasons on why God created evil. Thanks.

Evil is created simply to give the opposite of good. And since mankind has freewill to choose good or evil, it is no surprising that Paradise and hellfire are created as the final abode, for good, paradise and for evil, hellfire. And the greatest of evil is to say that God is more than One, eg Trinity, or have a disingenuous belief, or disbelief in Him altogether. You can not fancy up what how you obey, worship God. He lays down the law, it is up to you to accept or reject. The consequence for rejection is very clear and the reward of obedience and acceptance is not cloudy, either.


And as to the Ford automobile that got into an accident, the good may be damaged, but the manufacturer is this the same. Ford can not all of a sudden say that when it is damaged, it is manufacture by Nissan. If Ford vehicle had remain in their parking lot, or even just freshly minted, it there is some accident that befalls it, can Ford say all of a sudden, it is not the manufacturer?

Damaged or not, the manufacturer is the same. However you may say that the product if used under the proper guideline and no any external causation to make anything happen to it, it will go old experiencing the wear and tear that accompany usage. You will change the tires, the brakes, etc and change the oil; these could be looked at as its diseases, however minor. Then its death is when you actually realised that you need a new engine and the same time, a comply body works may be in order. Then you have to junk it.

This is the same with human being. There is no way you can claim that a little baby who you thank God for allowing you to have, as his Creator, when he becomes a monster as an adult, all of a sudden becomes not a creaion of God! His action may not be pleasing to you, but God is still his Creator. He had by his own freewill as a human chose evil over good. Charles Manson in 1969 knew killing was evil, but he chose it anyway. Yet he is still a creation of God. I hear the christian even calls everyone child of God, regardless of his good deeds or otherwise.

@Davidylan:

There is a chapter of the cow and elephant . . . does it contain the message of a cow or elephant as Allah's messenger too? Please succintly tell me in a nutshell what Noah's message was with references in the quran.

The cow; In the Qur'an, we read that God destroy the worshipped cow (golden calf) of the Children of isreal. The whole surah is on them, how they suffered and finally victorious over the Egyptians. We see how they were favored by God for as long as he favored them. All of these the bible can easily say that they also have a similar story in it. What it can not say though, which the Qur'an contains is the miracle which Moses performed by it. By mere saying of it, reluctantly, the Children of Israel slaughtered a cow, touched a piece of it on the body of a dead man. This mn came alive and told his people the person who killed him.

The Elephant; God destroyed Abraha, from Ethiopia, who wanted to destroy the Kaaba. The army rode on elephants, the "Abraham tank," of its time. They thought that they will route the makkans and destroyed the kaaba, so that their own structure, will now become the pligrimage center of the arabs and the whole region. Allah, the Almighty sent a flock of small birds, carrying nothing more that small specks of sand with their beaks. They drop these sands on these well organized army.


But when it dropped on them, it would have become baked clays; flaming hot. As it touched their skin, it created a bursting effect. Like the todays bunker buster from the American military. You can say those birds were the raptors of its time. This Abraha army was defeated with complete defeat. It reminds me of the pharaoh defeat under Moses. The impossible made possible, for all to see. And the year of this event, is the same year of the birth of Muhammad! Now, the rest of your writing is not what I intend to respond to. You can do research.

Google "Tafsir ibn Kathir." You will be completely get a good education. The essence of the covenant with the prophets and messengers is Laa ilaha ilallah. Why? All prophet and messengers stood on this simple statement. Muhammad himself preached it. The prophets and messengers were told to support him, if they were alive whenever he begins his ministry. They said yes and the oath or covenant was simply that; their acknowledgement of Laa ilaha ilallah and their intended support without any reservation if they were alive when Muhammad begins.


They preached one part of it, while they were waiting. Any and all of them would have fulfilled the other part, if they were alive when Muhammad became a prophet/Messenger. You can therefore see how it is impossible for Jesus son of mary, who was given book and knowledge of the old books before him, along with wisdom, to have proclaimed that he was anything, except a slave/servant Prophet/messenger! And Nuh message was Laa ilaha ilallah! Should any message be bigger than that? Is this not the essence of the Supreme being, God Lord Almighty Who is One single LOrd God?

@~Lady~:

Quote
Hebrew 5:7 "During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission."

I'm trying to understand what you're getting at here. Don't misinterpret the Bible please and why would you quote a man whom you consider a fraud? Why are you using the BIble that is supposed to be corrupted to prove your point? It screams "I DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH BECAUSE OF MY PRIDE, AND I AM DESPERATE TO USE ANYTHING TO DISPROVE THE CHRISTIANS EVEN IF I CONTRADICT MYSELF, I WILL HOPE THAT THEY ARE STUPID TO NOT EVEN CATCH MY TACTICS"

Do you know what the prayers were that Christ made and do you know what apostle Paul was talking about?

We all can read the plain english tht must have plain meaning as it is from your Bible that the Hebrew Verse came from. There is no need for any twist and turn and interpretation. It is direct and plain enough. If one quote the bible, it is simply to show you how convoluted it is. Going this way and going that way, but forgeting that it actually is contradicting itself! We could have cared less for the bible, except that no one will like to hide the truth from his fellow men, especially that Islam has enjoined the muslims to make effort in letting people know the truth.

Please reflect how do people who think they have committed a perfect crime are often get caught, by the casual and thorough investigative mind? The liars always leaving something as a sign, a way that they become the focus of the investigation. Finally, Paul was not around Jesus, at anytime in the ministrial live of Jesus. And since you know the American law well enough, hearsay are always inadmittable.

@~Lady~

Like I have explained many times. The Son and the Spirit are subject to God. Just as your hands are subject to you but still never separated from you.

If a hand is severed, the person still exist. Doesn't he? Then there is the matter of artificial limbs. Now how does Jesus fit in with God, especially when he died those short, badly calculated "3" days?

I see you're going to stick to your lie. Why did I ask you to ask your wife if she would be alright with you having sexual thoughts of another woman?

You are very ridiculous in your assumption that I am sticking to my lie. What lie is there when you raised the question and I simply answered your proposition, since it was a matter of man and woman? A sexual thought that passes, if unintended, or worse intended, but a person fights against it, is no less that what happens in the natural sense of human being. Afterall, I am a sexual being. You must remember that I added in that very conversation that a person needs to struggle against such thoughts. Afterall, its not like one allows it to continue throughout the day without seeking refuge from it. Finally, I told you what my bride said.


In the long run, he saw no harm in a passing thought, such as it is accidental. Its not like I went to stand at the street corner, with the sole purpose of checking out the women. You see, again, a thought that is never acted upon, is not a sin. Thats Islam. If it is a sin, in Christianity, please remember that Jesus had a brush with satan, who therefore made him sinned. But I do not want to beat this dead horse more than necessary, since there are very important matters yet to be addresses. Be assured am not into fornication or adultery. But you need to tell us about Mark 12 Verse 29!

He did die and defeated death. I think this is what he actually says about Jonah "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" meaning he died and descended into hell as the Christians believe.

Did you have 3 days and 3 nights in the case of Jesus? PLease count them for us! Fortunately, if this was Jesus miracle, then we have to look at what happened to Jonah as tha same must happen to Jesus; Jonah was not following the order of God in discharging his responsibilities to the people he was sent to. Is this the case with Jesus? God used the whale to get the attention of Jonah. Is this the case with Jesus as to him being nailed to the cross? Jonah was swallowed alive, and all through the 3 nights and 3 days that he remained in the whale, he was alive? Was this the case with Jesus from short 3 nights and 3 days, starting from friday just before Sunset all through Sunday, just before sunrise? Finally, when Jonah was spitted out, he did not declare himself to be anymore than a servant prophet of God. Is this the case with Jesus?


How can Jesus defeat death, when death continues to seize mankind, just as it did before the so called Jesus encounter and the defeat of this death? Even Jesus did not prevent his disciples from being killed by the same death that he defeated. How is this then possible? I just have to say that Jesus was reported to have been said that his disciples or their generation will be alive, when he makes his traumphant return. Where is any of these people now or has Jesus met that challenge that he himself threw up? If you are still expecting Jesus, then are the disciples being sequestal somewhere, alive, and waiting for him? Its very easy to say. But extremely hard to do!

@Davidylan:

Where is this Noah's message? Please reference it WITHOUT looking in the bible.

Read Surah Nuh, Ambiyya, etc. Just google Nuh in the Qur'an. There is even a chapter named Nuh. Stop being so lazy.

1. What is this covenant? Of what and to what people?
2. Where can we reference this covenant and who are these "previous prophets" IN THE QURAN?

The covenant is Laa ilaha ila llah. Is there any Lord God worthy of worship than 1 Lord God? All the prophets and messengers, starting from Adam to Jesus. 124,000 of them throughout human history.

Why is no such verse recorded ANYWHERE ELSE?

When you show me the word "Trinity," in the pages of your Bible, them I will show you, Trinity, Bible and other things about Jesus in the Qur'an that will point to what you don't have in the Bible. Go get me Trinity first. I know for sure you can't do it. Its impossible. I say it again, its impossible from the pages of your Bible.

@M_Nwankwo:

God created Lucifer who is an archangel.
Lucifer thus became a fallen archagel, a satan. Thus God created Lucifer the archangel but didnot create Lucifer the fallen archangel, the satan. Similarly God created human beings but God didnot create evil human beings.

If I read you correctly, since your Lucifer fell, and he bebecame satan, he is no more a creation of god. You also support your argument by God no longer the Creator of evil human beings. Well, your idea is a wierd one. Its as if Ford Motor company no longer the manufacturer of the Ford motor company vehicles that has an accident or used to commit a crime, even though it was manufactured for a societal beneficial intents. It just does not make any logical sense. Whats so interesting is that you believe all of this, with all your heart. Sometimes I wonder what is in the pages of your grail message that could make you see things only in a particular color alone, not even the many spectra and all their shades of grays in between.

God asked in the Qur'an if their is any other creator, apart from Him. We find the answer to be no, there no creator except you God Almighty. For all who think that they create, they but only bring about to physical reality what was always in conceptual reality. They have to use the elements and knowledge, etc provided by this great God. No one creates anything, except what He wills.

It is utter rubish to argue that it is the will of god if one gets malaria by not preventing mossquito bites.

Yet some people are biten by Mosquitoes, yet they will not come down with Malaria. That defies your argument, M_nwankwo. Just the other day, I was been told by a family member that a Kenyan prostitute have always tested negative of the HIV/AIDS tests, even though all her friends have died off, of the same epidemic disease! Please people, I am not advocating for any risky sexual behavior. A a muslim, I am a proponent of abstenence. Sex should be between partnership in marriage, only.

Hell is a place where the evil and thought voilitions have amassed. It is located in a region often refered to as the astral region and transistory enviroments surrounding it. It is finer than our earth and thus cannot be seen with eathly organs. It is however possible to be seen with the astral organs. It was formed when man on the prompting of Lucifer disobeyed the will of God. It came into existence with the fall of man. It is still in existence today and many souls are trapped there. It will cease to exist when the the will of God destroys all evil and its producers.Thanks

Was the fall of man before Adam and his wife Eve, or after? This will help us understand when your hell was formed. However the brother asked you about who created it. You have simply avoided to answer that poignant question. A soul been trapped in hell can not be having a splendid time in there, or can it? It can't be like the soul which is trapped in paradise or grail message heaven, or can it? I see that you finally tell us that hell has producers, who are going to be destroyed by the will of god. This tells me that God is not the creator of hell as you see it. However you are consitent with your believe that evil people are not more created by God, from the moment that they become evil.

We see that the only thing that change in these people is their evil deeds, yet they by this deed lost the creature of God status. What if an evil person become a good person at the age of 40, while he had been an evil person for 20 years? Will he all of a sudden become a creature of God? Think about these things man.

@May Kelly: Your writing was too long. I am only going to respond to a snippet of it. Its interesting that your Chinese Christian writer included Muhammad in the same line as Buhhda, tao, etc with including Moses, or Ibrahim, etc. Even though this Chinese man might have come from a pople who many of them are muslims, we must not forget that he is not a muslim.


Hence, he writes from his own belief process. We should however ask him though, that is it possible that he know the Jewish thoughts about their tribal god, more than them? We must therefore never forget that the Jews never accept Jesus even so much as a prophet! The christians call Jesus the "King," of the Jews. But there is never a time he ascended any throne. Is this not a proof against your baseless claim here and many other claims that you have made, as christians?

The original writing of the ancient Hebrew culture reveals this "Three in One" nature of God! (not seen as clearly in English/Chinese translations of the Bible.)
"Hear, O Israel The Lord (plural) our God (singular) the Lord (plural) is One (singular)."

If this is so above, and Jesus repeat the same darn thing, word for word as he was asked about God, then tell me, how can anyone who say this sentense be considered to be God? If the one who repeated it is considered to be god, then the one who said it originally must have to be considered in this same light. In that case you will have even a god walking on earth before jesus, your god did! You see how silly your concept of calling Jesus god is?

Its amazing when I read the H20 analogy to demostrate the christian god in three forms. But what the guy fails to expess in his writing is that if a unit of H20, say 1 pound is used as our illustration amount here, you will not find 1 pound of H20, existing each, 100% of the quantity all at the same time as liquid, gas and solid! You will have to have 3 pounds and not 1 pound! Further, if I polute the original 1 pound with whatever I polute it, you will never have it a pure liquid while it is poluted, or as pure solid will it has the polutant or as pure gas with the polutant in it! If Jesus did not know anything about the time of the hour, or being ran ragedy into the wilderness by the Devil, who afterwards controlled him so much as to tempt him, three time after it, you will not say that Jesus is Almighty God, would you? I am telling you, you seem to insinuate what is absolutely unproveable, even when it is casually observed with sound mind.

This is the foundation for all Judaism, called the "Shema," which in Hebrew means "'Hear,' the declaration about God." The Jewish people today still cannot explain this use of plural/singular in this literature. They do not want anyone to ask them about it because they have ignored this and taught the "One" God and not the mystery of the eternal Godhead.

Except that Islam and judaism are not one. We in Islam do not borrow from the Jews. Our writing about Pharaoh in the Qur'an is different from what you have in the Taurah. We call him Fir'awn, even the Egyptians and others including call him Pharaoh. We said that his body was thrown out by the water of the sea, in which he drowned. The Taurah said he perished and said nothing about his body being discovered on dry land, outside the sea. Today the body of this tyrant is in the Egyptian museum. How did it get there, except that he was recovered on dry land, because we did not hera about any diver diving into the sea to get his body. If you have any sourc e, contrary to what the Qur'an says about this, I want to read it. Please ask your Chinese guy for support. Both of you will fail.

Another story is the Story of Joseph. You need to read this yourself; How he was viewed by the women of the society, how he got into the prison and how he cleared his name, etc. You need to read the Qur'an, woman.

The Qu'ran of the Muslim peoples was written many hundreds of years after the Jewish Old Testament "Shema."

Ph. D. degrees are many years after grade school, education. Which one is better, higher and more desired? Look at the Qur'an versus any part of the Bible that way!

When the Qu'ran was compiled, the writers lacked the clear understanding of the Torah and only had the Talmud, Jewish legends, and Midrash. The only Christian writing they had were "Apocryphal;" unaccepted heresy that was never included in the original Bible. Therefore, though the uncorrupted Bible existed and is even quoted in the Qu'ran, the addition of books not inspired and even contradictory cloud the mystery of God’s revelation. These are the sources they quoted from, not having access always to the original accepted texts of the Bible.

This china man must be a slowpoke! I ask you this question; where was the uncorrupted Bible, when the muslims had access to the Talmud, Jewish legends, and Midrash but lacks the understanding of the Torah and then was able to get their hands on the apocryphal, the unacceptable heresy that were not included in original Bible? Was this original Bible in the moon, because Muhammad (as) would have known it because he splitted the moon as a miracle to his people? Was this original Bible in the heavens, because Muhammad (as), went to heaven in a body and soul night journey.


Was this Original bible on earth, because Muhammad was visited for 23 years by Angel Gabreil who God Almighty reveal almost all of the Qur'anic text through to Muhammad, except the last 4 verses of Surah baqarah, which he received in his heavenly night journey. If the Original Bible was available and was not corrupted as the Qur'an said, Jibril would have told Muhammad so. Even the Jews disagree with the Christians. How Original can the Bible be, when the Jews reject the NT 100% and the Christians have selected acceptance of the OT?

An average Muslim has usually never studied the facts of this history. Therefore, after comparing the Qu'ran and the Bible (New Testament) will say the New Testament part of the Bible had been changed or "corrupted." What they don't know is their story of Jesus was taken from these "apocryphal" stories and not from the early true manuscripts of the Bible all Christians use today.

As they say, when a lie is repeated often enough, it becomes a truth in the mind of those who hear it. What history should the Muslim study when God Almighty reveals the Qur'an to His Messenger? Should we say that Pharaoh body is not found, when it is in the museum for anyone to see? Shall we say God is one of the three, when all the prophets before Jesus and jesus himself preached the Oneness of God? How can oneness become party? I am not meaning this party in a sexual sense for those of you whose hearts are in that state of eurocentric!

The Qur'an declares that the Bible is corrupted by the hands of men. We today finds uncountable versions of the Bible. We have some bible having verses and even chapters and even books excluded in its content, while other Bible have these books. A good example is the Protestant Bibles versus the Catholic Bibles. The Caholic Bibles have many more books than the protestant Bibles. Is this not a clear sign of corruption?

God is the Protector of His Word, and would not allow the Injil to be corrupted (and only the ignorant and unlearned would say otherwise). If the Bible is corrupted, why does the Qu'ran quote it? (Surah 21:105/ Ps. 37:29).

The word of God will not include the words of the prophets and messengers, except what is revealed to them. The word of God will not include the acts of the apostles and the letters of paul and others. The word of God will not be the Biblical verse above, contained in both the OT and NT, talking about Lord God is One to the Israelites and at the same time saying God is 3!

Qur'an 21 verse 105; Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth." Please note that The Qur'an says servant, and not children. Muslims are servants, while children of god is what the christian openly declare themselves to be. Further, you must present the Psalm in a word for comparison for us to know that this is what the Qur'an did.

But there is over 6000 verses in the Qur'an, and you could only point to just one? So shall we then say that whichever verse that we findin the NT that talks about 1 God, it is therefore copied from the Qur'an, since the Christian is claimning that their god is three? If we use this idea, then the christian in retrospect, have copied more verses from the Muslims without any doubt. This will further prove what the muslims say about the Bible; it is corrupt.

The "Shema" of the Old Testament becomes a very important item for them. It could never be allowed to change. The Jews themselves preserved the plural/singular/plural grammar. Therefore, the Qu’ranic scholar is inconsistent with the most ancient writings in condemning the "Three in One" mystery. (Surah IV171, 5:75-76).

Could you give us the Original "Shema," since the most ancient writings may not necessary mean the original? I will like to know how in the Shema, God did not use the tone of trinity when He talked to Moses in the burning bush, or led him and his nations out of Egypt, etc? Where did God ever indicated that he is not one, ever? I even use majestic pronoun for myself when i talk to my family, wife, children, etc. When I am talking to friends, I may just use it a well. Does this mean that I am more than one? Silly concept, tripping tremendously educated people all over the world.


What this state to me is that not all educated people are smart, or, the elevetaor does not reach the top floor when it comes to religion. Lets just reflect for a moment; When the christians say that Jesus was nailed to the cross, were the other two part of him also nailed to the cross? When he was gravelling as he was begging God to take the cup of death off his head, were the other two doing the same thing? When he was walking on water, were the other two walking on water? Infact, all that he did and experienced, were the other two going through each and everyone of them, including when he defecated?


004.171
YUSUFALI: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

YUSUFALI: Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

005.076
YUSUFALI: Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."

Is any of the three verses against the belief of the jews that God is one, or where the Christian god actually states that his Lord God is One? "Hear, O Israel The Lord (plural) our God (singular) the Lord (plural) is One (singular)."

@Justcool: The Yorubas have a saying; whatever resembles a thing is what we use to describe it.

"The wages of SIN is death." The death that is meant here is spiritual death not physical death. Physical death is actually not death but a transition or the falling away of the physical body like m_nwankwo has rightly explained. Physical death is not real death because the soul(spirit), which is the real man, goes on living after physical death. The real death that is caused by sining is the spiritual death; that is when the ego,(soul, Spirit) dies. This is eternal damnation.

A child in the womb will not have the word, 'death,' in his vocabulary. Would he? Will a person who has already dead, buried and forgotten be using the word, 'death,' to take him, again? Unless you do not believe in resurrection, and Judgement day, that is the only way that you could explain away that, 'spiriyual death is when the ego, (soul, spirit) dies!' For us, who believe in both resurrection and Judgement day, we realise that physical death, a disease that allows the person to be transported to that station where the two events can act upon him, at the approriate time, must occur.

Take for instance creation of man; Those of us who believe in it, believed that Adam and his mate, Eve were both created without the agencies of father and or mother. In the case of Adam, he was from soil and water and soul/spirit. Eve was made from a small piece removed from fully human Adam. But their children was through sexual relations of man and woman, where productive elements (Eggs and sperms) are now the source materials for producing them. Then we come to Jesus, he was produced through female element, without any male productive element.


Today, some children are produced with the sexual relationship between man and woman, the same process that happened to the condition in which Jesus was produced. Except in this case, we see that male sperm was artificially added, which makes it different from Jesus' production process. All of these strange ways of man coming to alive is called creation, or birth!

We may think that birth will have to come through the birth canal, but it may not be 100% true. I read yesterday, that the test tube baby is now 30 years old. I do not remember that he was concieved or birthed in the normal way that most children are, today. Therefore your thinking that death is not a disease is based on your limited knowledge. The same limited knowledge a man who lived 2000 years ago would have if he was to be told that there would be a group of children that will be developed outside the mother's womb!


The same limited knowledge that many of mankind have when they find a child being produced without the aid of a sexual relationship, where the male semen is discharge. This child is in time mislabelled and given titles that does not due to him. Just imagine how easy is it therefore for man to mislabel death as not a disease when it actually has a detrimental effect on those who catch it! No one who has it can tell you his condition, yet we can not assertain that he can not hear us and also feel external and internal stimuli.

Just within 7 days ago, a young family in the US, suddenly discovers that their normal three year old girl, can not talk, walk, etc. Infact there is no known disease found in her, from the many tests she had gone through. And imagine the shock of her parents, who are now concern for their "normal," almost 1 year old son, who looks exactly like his 3 year old sister.

Your assumption that God did not create disease shows that you do not understand the complete power of God. To you God is Love and all that is good. But does He not punish? Will He not punish the evil doers? If you read the Jewish Torah, one sees how God, through many plagues weakened Pharaoh and the Egyptian people. When they do not obey His commands, He finally destroyed their leadership and the military might that it had. We therefore read how city states and people on the way to "THe promised land," were destroyed.


They were killed. You will agree with me that the Children who were killed among these people have done little or nothing that can be taking as significant "Sin!" If a newly born child died, immediately after his birth, what wages of sin is he paying, or why could he have the physical death since he has not contributed anything to bring any physical death on him? My friend, you can not know more that your knowledge. In this case, since this is a matter of spirituality, you have a poor spiritual understanding of the unknowns. What you need to do is take up the Qur'an and the hadith of Islam.

@M_Nwankwo: I know that you do not believe in everything in the Bible, but probably believe in what Jesus said to sothe your idae of Grail Message?

Thus death is not equivalent to illness.

Is it not in the bible that Jesus is reported to have said that the wages of SIN is DEATH?

Unfortunately, you can not substantiate with any certain knowledge that death is not a disease. Or can you? Do you know how many diseases yet to be classified, named or discovered by the limited knowledge of man?

If Moses said something, do you think you have the knowledge to disprove him, since he was a prophet and messenger and you are not? Have you heard of the expression of "disease of the heart?" Could you tell us if in all the cases the heart is diseases, in the form of what we all know disease to be? Could it not be spiritual disease that is being expresses in this form, in some cases?

I hereby submitted to you that Muhammad bin Abdallah (as) stated that every disease has a cure (you may not have discovered it yet for a particular disease), the only one disease that does not have a cure is death.

Please if you have a man that dies and no known disease is found when an autopsy is performed, it does not mean that an unknown disease did not affect him. A good example of an unknown disease, since you do not classify it as a disease is death. Death no human being will escape it. A man was just telling me this afternoon that that is the thing that he is forced to do now. He then added that belief in God is not even forced on him, he had just to make a choice. But death, you have no choice in it at all. Have you ever had a choice in getting a disease, falling sick with excuciating pain? No one wishes it.

@M_Nwankwo:

Death is simply the discarding of the physical body by the human soul or more correctly the human spirit. It is not a punishment but simply a transition. Thus even before the fall of man, when sin and diseases have not entered the world, human beings in flesh still die.

Could you tell us, from your Bible or grail message, when was it that man died before the man fell, before sin and diseases entered into human's world? How many generation of man perished before this human actually fell, sinned and diseased?

I wonder if you know that not to many people want to die? And by the way when grandpa or dad get sick, who made them, their dead forebearers or the everliving God? Is not tiredness even aform of mild disease, since no one wants to miss any happenings?

And does diseases craeted by the God to give natural termination process to humans, who are imperfect beings, therefore makes God imperfect, therefore? Do you believe in Hellfire? Rather do you think that a person who does evil should be punished? Will God be evil, when He punishes those who deserve to be punish? Do you believe in Paradise, the exact opposite of Hell? Why do you think they exist? Is there any contradiction in the purpose of God creating man, since He wills to judge us?

@M_nwankwo: In your mind, Science and religion, the belief in God are in congruent. In Islam, science is within the essence of belief in God. Allah refers to many so called science disciplines in the Qur'an. Read it. Get yourself a Qur'an and educate yourself. If God did not create deseases, who created it and what do you thing getting old is, which eventually result in death? Infact what do you think death is, since no one wants to die? Can you imagine if there is no check and balance, eg death in the equation of mankind, what will the population be by now, how will mankind be judged in the day of judgement, since everyone will say: "I have not finish my deeds, yet. The best are yet to come!?" This is for us who belief in being raised up after death and be judged on our belief and deeds.

@JeSoul:

So all you have to look forward to is wanton food and sex? wow I feel sad for you and all mooslims.

I thought you like good food now? And I am sure you are looking forward to good sex in the future, with whoever that husband will be. I read sometimes, here on NL, when some of the Christian women, who are not having any now, said that "God help the poor "guy, husband" who will have to do triple shift!" If you like good food here and now, and wholesome and legal sex, just imaginethe food that will not have any 'waste' when digested and the sex that will catapult you to cloud 500, even before you begin, while earthly sex can only get you to cloud 9!

JeSoul, there is still a seat in the Islamic bus. You almost reach the bus stop. Have the courage to buy the ticket and take a seat for the ride. It reminds me of Noah's ark. While building it a long way from the sea, the people used to laugh at him that he abandoned "Prophethood," which they did not believe he was, for capentry, which they are mocking him on.


[Quote]
Me I don't know which "christian" women you heard this from but I can guarantee you it is a l-i-e! And for which side in beantown? lol. . . Alhaji abeg stop this fairytales. . .[/quote]Is Northeastern, Wentworth, Boston College, etc, not in Beantown? I know that you will claim Harvard, MIT are in Cambridge. There is no fairytale, my sister. I have many friends in these places. I have heard stories. Here in New York City, it is no different. While the muslim men insisted on getting married first, the women are willing to go for the ride!


[Quote]
Eya, don't worry about me sir, I am held firm and secure in the love of my Lord Jesus Christ . Him only will I ever love and serve and I'm prepared to die for Him. Only Jehovah is the true God, all others are just posers! lol.[/quote]And when we say Christian worship more than one god, we hear the cry that it is not so. Here we read jesus is lord who you serve and Jehovah is true God! We have two and am still waiting for the third. There is never a time the Christian will say that the true God is holy spirit/ghost or it is the lord to serve!

JeSoul, am still waiting for you, for a change of religion. When there is no death, the deeds are not finished, yet.

@Huxley: Did you har what the Indian Doctor said, even before the saw the little girl, with a parasitic twin? The Doctor said that No great discovery in Science can keep the last man on earth alive. I did not have to see the poor child to know that God designs what is perfect.

The poor girl is a sign for us who have healthy children to be thankful. She is a sign to us all that having normal children is not by our power, but by the Will of the almighty. Do not forget that her village people are taking her as a "god!" They are not concern that she is having a hard life. To them she is a reincarnation of their object of worship. It tells you that one man's poison may be another man's potion, concortion of happiness.

The Indian community, the Doctor is from a camp who sees her as abnormal and the very reason he volunteered to help. While the other gropu of the sameindian people, the uneducated villagers sees her as a "god!" We should not forget that God has used her to serve as a sign for us parents with normal children to thank Him. She serves the same purpose as a very very poor person may serve in the eye of the wealthy.

Did you pay attention that her 8 limbs did not bring her any advantage over the normal and usually expected 4 limbs person? She has the same difficulty as a child who has less that 4 limbs of 2 arms and two legs. Except that in her case the degree of difficulty and inefficiency is not the same as that of the less than 4 limbs person. What can be inferred from al of this, is that the Creator's perfect creation median or normal creation is the best. It has the optimum and satisfying pleasantness and goodliness. That girl is actually an endictment against the evolutionist and their evolutionary concept.

@Davidylan: Please read all of my presentations, below. Get yourself a referenced copy, the Qur'an.  English text is OK.

I will ask a question so you can prove me wrong littleb - why is Mohammad not predicted ONCE in the quran but you have to sift through the very bible you claim is corrupt to find prophecies of him?

Surah Baqarah 2 Verse 129; Anabi Ibrahiim prayer for the coming of Muhammad (AS).

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Allah's Apostle said, "Noah will be called on the Day of Resurrection and he will say, 'Labbaik and Sa'daik, O my Lord!' Allah will say, 'Did you convey the Message?' Noah will say, 'Yes.' His nation will then be asked, 'Did he convey the Message to you?' They will say, 'No Warner came to us.' Then Allah will say (to Noah), 'Who will bear witness in your favor?' He will say, 'Muhammad and his followers. So they (i.e. Muslims) will testify that he conveyed the Message. And the Apostle (Muhammad) will be a witness over yourselves, and that is what is meant by the Statement of Allah "Thus We have made of you a just and the best nation that you may be witnesses over mankind and the Apostle (Muhammad) will be a witness over yourselves." (Surah Baqarah 2 Verse 143)


Surah Imran: 3 Verses 81 and 82; Allah took the covenant from all the previous prophets and messengers, that if any of them finds Muhammad to arrive in his time, such a Messenger and or a prophet would support and give aid to Messenger and prophet Muhammad.


Surah Saffa: 61 Verse 6; Jesus spoke about the coming of a mrssenger whose name is Ahmad. Ahmad is one of the names of Prophet Muhammad (as).

@Okija_juju: Thanks for your many questions. I will like to answer you. I will also reference the Ezekiel 8, verses 15-17 culled from the Bible. This is if it is assumed to be true statement from God Almighty to whoever he spoke it to.

whats your point??

The poster has no real point except to incinuate, out of ignorance, trying to subtly suggest that islam may be paganic. Please note that the people who God Almighty were referring to were in Judea, a nation of Judah, a branch of the world nations of Children of Israel. Makka is probably east of them. So when they were bowing their heads, they were said to be worshipping the Sun. It is not because they were facing the east, but because their object of worship was the sun, a mere creation! Muslims do not copy anything from the jews; Judaism or Christianity, etc. WE do not practice Kabala, too.

muslims are sinners??

Muslims are sinners, but they are also people who seek forgiveness. Astaghafirllah, is exactly a word by which they seek forgiveness. And they are not sincerely arrogant. We see them humiliating themselves before God the Almighty.

God hates muslims??

Please note that some people just talk and they have no backbones to substantiate what they say. When you asked if the muslims were hated by God, pay attention to the escapist response of the one you question. How can God the Almighty hates the people who obeys His commandments as they believe Him as One God without any partner, believing in all His unadulterated and pure revelations, without the hands of any, accepting all His prophets and Messengers and the true way He orders mankind to worship Him, etc.

what??

Finally, Muslims do not face the east. But face the Kaaba. The muslims who are in the west of Kaaba, will face east. The ones who are in the east of Kaaba will face west, directly or in the general direction of the Kaaba. Those in the north of it, will have to face the south in order to face it. And those who are in the South of it, will definitely face northward. Inshort, if you are looking at this simple structure known as kaaba, you will just have to face it.


This is the reason you see a circle of people around it! If you are inside it, since it is empty, you face its wall! And the object of worship for muslims is not the sun, or anything created, including Muhammad (AS). Muhammad himself worshipped the same way the muslims worship. We must never forget that he was the one we in Islam imitate in the way we worship God Almighty Allah.

@morpheus24 « #13 on: Today at 06:34:18 PM »

Its apparent you are more deluded that I thought. It is evident you are no different than any other fundamentalist religious nut out there

I only responded to your entry. That direct respond got you upset. Sorry, man. But am not a fundamentalist religious nut. No sir. That belongs to dead heads. I am not one. Why? Allah the Almighty speaks about moderation. I obey Him.

You shut down everyone elses reasoning based on the fact of what you think you know yet have no shred of evidence to support. your onyl point of reference is you Quran. "the undisputed real truth". Of course it would be. You have no other choice and think for some reason you are priviledged in your status as being born a muslim.

Is there another point of reference apart from what God said? Should I take Paul as my point of reference? Wouldn't I then arrive at 3 in 1 godhead(s)? And to think that being borm into Islamic family automatically makes you a muslim, is far from reality. How many a personwho have abandoned Islam for Kufr? And how many a new dynasty in Islam that are being established, today in the West? Or even in Iboland, etc? Ogbeni, so nko to mo. And you can become a muslim, still. No one is stopping you. You can be previleged as well, the moment you become a muslim.

The fact is you have been indoctrinated into this belief just like every other religious nut out there and concentrate your time on disproving other peoples faiths in an effort to justify your delusion and come to terms with your existense and purpose in life

Whats your purpose in life? No, what is yourvpurpose of being alive? Think about it. I already responded to you about being a religious nut. Say something else.

Foolish to see that you are as guilty and gullible of the very redrick you are spewing.

Since I responded to your ill informed idea about Islamic paradise, you therefore find me, guilty, gullible and a spewer of rhetorics. Ok.

Ask your self what makes you so sure of what you are saying is true. When you answer that question then ask what makes other people of different faiths make them so sure of theirs as well. You will come to discover you absolutely no different from them and if you are intelligent enough will realize you are fighting a loosing battle and are simply wasting your breath each day of your life.

If I listen to somebody like you, I will probably let somebody absorb my responsibility. Rather, the person may oppress me and i will not know it. Thank God that I have a mind of my own. As a human being am able to know that the earth did not come about by accident. I know that I am not here just without a purpose that fit within all the things that I see. I am sure of death. Further there is the hope that whatever I do in this world, I will reap the reward. Heck, even the Hindu believes in reward. Thats why they talk about reincarnation and then reaching a Navada. They talk about Karma, too.

The Jews and the Christians believe in reward in the day of Judgement. Its only you, morpheous24 and atheists and agnostics, who do not believe in anything. Your believe is that when you die, you will decompose and that will be it. Well, its only a pipe dream. I hereby submit to you that you shall be recreated, and be Judged. If you have a good and very sound belief in One god and do deed of righteousness, you will have the Mercy of God. he will ransome you away from Hellfire and you will be placed in paradise, from the get go. If you are from the extreme opposite of this, then, you will receive the necessary Justice of God. The place that an evil person deserve to be place is the Fire of hell, losing out of the goodness of paradise.

Whats your choice?

@Morpheus24;

When you get to heaven after you martyr yourself then tel lthe 72 virgins I am coming too to meet them and oh yeah that river of honey don't finish it before I get there.

Now you are interested in the reward, but not in the belief and work that may lead you there. Are you an Ibadan boy? True to the image; ibi ti ole ngbe jare oniun. Or omo a jegboro dagba. I believe the second one fits like a glove. Its like wanting to go to christian heavens, but dont want the christian death. Hey, its rapture! But it ain't gonna happen. Every christian that ever hoped for it, perished without realizing it. Ma je ki tie ri be o, morpheus24.

Delusions of a desert people who have concurred and brainwashed your mind.

I am happy about that. At least it is better than the Jews who will let you know that 'salvation is of the jews, only!' Now chew on that. They have thrown you to the abiss of hellfire by this statement. Except, you just dont read anything directly. You have to put interpretation spin on it. Even when the sentence is direct to the point. Paddy mi, stop this twisting and turning away from the truth. Join the desert people followership. Leave the Jews alone. They will never benefit you. Never, I repeat it. Nothing Jewish, including their tribal prophet and prophesy for them will benefit any 9ja.

Arabic is the language of the angels. Why not yoruba? Heheheheh.

For one, its the saying of the Prophet (as). And he never uttered anything important like this from his personal opinion, except he was instructed by revelation. It is the language of the Qur'an. Unlike the Bible, which are all over the places, and of course greek dominated semitic languages of the prophets. And the language of the angels ins not Yoruba, if you consider that even today you still have Babalawo, Olorisha, Abogun, Onishongo, Oloya, Olobatala, etc still in my Yorubaland. Swallow that, for a moment. I know its a bitter pill. Will the language of the Angels be your demise?

Heheheheh.

@A_K_O:

Yeah, so now what?

You agree with what I said that you quoted right?

No one agrees with "nothing," from you. And by the way, the only reason that you have not been here in the "Muslim" section, is that the conversation is too heavy for you. You need light stuff. When we discuss, we tlk about God being One. No three godhead(s) in One God. Your 3 in 1 does not make sense. I God who says He is not the Author of confusion, would not confuse man! He would not present a matter as clumsy as your Trinity, which will go against all that He had established through earlier prophets before.


A God that can by His Own Power alone, forgives who ever He wills and punishes who ever He wills, will not all of a sudden come into the world to be humiliated by a bunch of Jews! Yet after all the humiliations salvation can not be guaranteed just by believing the said humiliation. Afterall, a liar who believes in said humiliation will not enter Christian paradise, would he? A homosexual, or gender bender or those types, who believes in the humiliation will not enter Christian heaven, or would he? How about a prostitute, an adulterer or fornicator, or an oppressor, etc? You see?

You digg??!!??

Now dig that! All of whats above. Dig it?

@Tpia:

As to quietness and agreement: Iran and Iraq are both Mus'lim countries but are at loggerheads with each other.

And the fingerprints of the non-muslims can be see all over it. Just imagine what the big deal is that the west is against the muslims reestablishing the office of the Kalifah? You have Nato, European Union, Nafta, etc. But no one wants the muslims to get together and be one body, with their own relationship and minigovernment body. Think about that.

I checked the Mus'lim section the other day and they were on the lookout for any Ahmadiyyas in their midst.

The reason you saw that is because of the position of the founder of Ahmadiyyan movement. His name was Ahmad, hence the movement. Its just like Christianity. Its named after a human being. Its artificial. But its claim as a prophet, etc is the major problem. Just as wer consider Christianity to be fake, so is the consideration given to the Ahmadiyyah movement. The Shia sect that you could have said is very strange even does not have a concept of anyone being a prophet after Muhammad (AS). (Shia means sect or group).

maybe they're quiet because they're all the same denomination so far.

We disagree. Our disagreement is only in matters where people are wrong. Especially in the core of Islamic belief. A person can not say anything new about the number of Rakah in any salah. It will not be allowed to survive because Islam already has an established quantity about each of them. It is from Muhammad, directly among mankind. Christianity don't have that. Let me make myself clear about what Christianity don't have:



From the Bible Jesus is reported to have said in Mark 12 Verse 29, just like prophets before him, among the Children of Israel: Your Lord and my Lord is but One God. Also who to worship, alone; God. Then you have the laws, including the 10 commandments, which just declared that he came to fulfill each one of them and not to abolish any. He encouraged later generations of those who would follow his movement to fulfill and discouraged the same people from abolishing the littliest from the law. Abolishing will lead to the position of being the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.



But then, in other verses of the Bible, we read the post Jesus crowd postulating that he is god, lord and hence they developed a strange phenomenon around it, bebringing out a concept of Trinity. rinity a word that never appears any where in the pages of the Bible; both old and new testament sections. I wonder if your name is not Tpia in your Profile, would Nairaland organization let you post entries? Would any of us know your name, your nature or what to call you? Could I have been able to respond to your entry, as I am doing, now, specifically directing it to you, by name? Think about it, for a moment.

And by the way, did the biblical God ever forgave Adam and or Eve, versus the talking Serpent? Where was Satan, when all of this was happening? Was Satan the talking serpent? If God did not forgive Adam and or Eve, are they going to be barred from entering Paradise, since the Christians always say that their sin, eating the fruit is the Original sin, which we all inheritted? How are they going to be saved, away from Hellfire? How will all the other Prophets of God, who came after them will be saved?

@Wirinet: I will love to read how the Bible pundits explain the lies? It seems as if the Bible Garden of Eden's Serpent is a pretty smart animal. It told them the true, which created fear in the Biblical God! You will see that the Bible seems to indicate that God did not want to let them eat from the tree. But He did not tell them the real truth, which they found only when the Serpent to them that it was okay.

I really have to ask, where was the Garden of Eden located? What happened to the trees afterward? And what happened to the talking Serpent? Finally what was Adam doing leaving his wife, his main responsibility alone, which allowed the Serpent to get to her with a truth about the tree, even though it was a means of her and his disobedience to God's commandments?


Please realise that disobedience to God's commandments bring about dire consequences. So will the disobedience to the Oneness of God, whereby people say that God is 3 will bring heavenly dire consequences.


Finally, Islamic creation is different in place of creation, who was deceived and who the deceiver was. In Islam we do not blame Eve. We say that husband and wife were deceived at the same time, because of jealousy. Shaitan was the deceiver and God was well aware that it will happen, all along. They were created in heaven and then were made to dwell in the Garden of paradise. That was were they were whispered to in deceit by Shaitan.


After this disobedience, they were sent down to the earth, already created with all that needed to be created. They, upon arrival completed the equation for earth and also a place where they would procreate and therefore populate the earth. Hence earth is a place of trial for mankind, whereby one will be qualified by belief in God and personal deeds. Those who have good and sound faith/belief in One God, and do good deeds as much as they are capable, will receive Mercy of God and be rewarded with paradise after death.



Those who have terrible belief/faith, eg trinity is a bad faith/belief, and regardless of whatever good deeds they perform, unless God will it that they enter paradise, by making them change faith before death, they will receive justice of disbelief from God. They will be herded into Hellfire.

@Huxley: To fleece you, how much do i have to offer? I mean money or other form of exchange so that you become a muslim. Afterall, everyone has a price. You left west africa for europe. The europeans have fleeced the african countinent off of your knowledge. You contribute something to the english economy, don't you?

If I buy your loyalty, with enough euro or pound sterling. You will have no choice but to become a muslim. But i am willing to spend a dime on you. So you have to become a muslim. The same reason you left christainity. That reason is sufficient to bring you to Islam. After your playing around in the world of disbelief.

@Jayon: Since you are a man, I meant to say. You will have plenty of brothers, in all age groupings to dialogue with you. I was thinking about a Nigerian blood sister, who is also wishing to learn about islam. Forgive me.

@Jayon: I thought you were open to islamic discussion. Didn't you promise me to learn about Islam? New York City, is filled with Muslims and their houses of worship. Which borough do you live in? manhattan is filled with masajid. So is Brooklyn, Queens, boggeydown Bronx and Staten Island. Please try to visit some. And since you are a black woman, you will find many ablack woman to assist you. You need africans. Pleanty of them. Especially in the Bronx. What do you want? We can have it for you.

@manmustwac: What about the one that Satan, the Devil in evil, devoid of any good led to the cliff? Is that one not worse condition, than when God leads to the edge of the cliff? But the third alternative is that God may let you fall since you may be a bad human being. God chosen way to cut you off. Leaving you to get hurt or kill you.

@SeanT21:

« #1 on: Today at 05:14:21 AM »
God is always there doing hard times. He never leaves You nor Forsakes You. You can always trust in him.

Then why the person on the cross cried out, "My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?" Big question concerning many issues. Trinity included.

@Olaadegbu:

Now the Christian account of God involves just the same principle. The human level is a simple level and rather empty level. On the human level one person is one being, and any two persons are two separate beings – just as, in two dimensions (say on a flat sheet of paper) one square is one figure, and any two squares are two separate figures. On the Divine level you still find personalities; but up there you find them combined in new ways which we, who do not live on that level, cannot imagine. In God’s dimension, so to speak, you find a being who is three Persons while remaining one Being, just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube. Of course we cannot fully conceive a Being like that: just as, if we were so made that we perceived only two dimensions in space we could never properly imagine a cube.

C. S. Lewis is a darn freak. A liar of a very high order. He left atheism for Christianity? He changed one type of frying pan for a chinese wok. Both of them are cooking utensils. Look at how he described the christian God as three, then he turned around to use six sided cubes and 2 dimensions in a space to justify three godhead or trinity! Since God is not physically here on earth, is He now a cube or three cubes in a space making one cube? Or rather three persons in a space making one person? Orishi rishi. The madness of C. S. Lewis.

The fact that we cannot fully comprehend the Trinity does not mean that it does not make sense. When I switch on the television or communicate on a telephone I do not know how they work, but there is an explanation beyond the limits of my understanding and which does make sense.

The fact that we cannot comprehend the Trinity is the first insight that it does not work. The Jews, as a people pride themselves as being people who received revelations. There is no time that they believe that God is three persons! And today, they stand on the original belief that God is One Lord. Since C. S. Lewis has suddenly reduce God to cubes and 2 dimensional objects, and spatial beings, then we should ask the jews whom one of their people is made into the trinitarian object of worship.

Mr. Jew, since you have such a greater scholarship, in every field of study, except Islam, and you have been given the benefit of so many prophets, even though your person, your brother Jesus is supposed to be a god with god Almighty, whats your take on this?

Below is an answer to a question about Trinity from a notable jewish Rabbi. You can read a complete text on the thread "Trinity Help me, entry # 72 made my me, Yesterday July 18, 2008"

quote;
Did Somebody Find the Trinity in the First Chapter of the Bible? To Whom Was God Speaking to When He Said, "Let Us Make Man in Our Image"?

Question:

Dear Rabbi Singer,

A Messianic Jew is working overtime to try to convince me that I need JC. She recently showed me Genesis 1:26, “Let US make man in OUR image,” stating that JC was part of creation with God, plural Us and Our being the proof. Can you explain the plural in this verse to me? I want to have an intelligent answer. I am trying very hard to learn more of my Jewish religion, as I was raised in a non-religious home. The only Bible I own is the one she gave me and it is a King James.


Answer:

No area of Jewish literature could be more inhospitable to the Christian doctrine of the triune godhead than the Torah and the writings of its prophetic messengers. It is on the strength of these sacred texts that the Jew has preserved the concept of one, single, unique Creator God Who alone is worthy of worship. Understandably, missionaries undertake a formidable task when they seek to “prove” the doctrine of the Trinity from the Jewish scriptures. No prophet went silent on the uncompromising radical monotheism demanded by the God of Israel. The Jewish people, therefore, to whom these sublime declarations about the nature of the Almighty were given, knew nothing about a trinity of persons in the godhead.
unquote.

one of you must be lying; either the Jews or the Christians since you use the same book, the Bible!

@Olaadegbu:

« #144 on: Today at 07:46:48 AM »
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? Jn.3:12

This is the assessment made by the Master which explains why the natural analogies confuses you the more.

Omoya, who was Jesus, the Master assessing when he directed this statement, above to his audience? The Muslims of Arabia and the world over or the Jews who were listening to him? Considering that he was sent to the lost house of Israel, he could never have been talking about the bretheren of his people, or be talking to Ethipian or Sudanese or iraqi or Afghanistani or Nigerian Muslims. Neither the Arabs, Muslims and the other Muslims fit in the flock which he was to shephard, as long he remained alive.


Therefore, we can easily conclude that he was talking to the companions, the disciples and those who cared to listen among the Jews. These were the unbelievers that he was talking about. The Arabs and the muslims were to be the audience and followers of the yet to come unlettered prophet named Muhammad. Then know that Jesus also predicted that a Comforter will come after he himself have left the prophetic world stage. And thats excatly what happened. His prophetic Master came, and, he began his message about 610 years later.


How then can't you get it that you are in the wrong company? You are one of the people that Jesus was talking about in that verse. You are outside the box of true guidance as long as you are not following Muhammad (as). You were just like the Jews who rejected Jesus during his time and before Muhammad became a prophet. After Muhammad had started his prophethood, jesus authority as a prevailing prophet was ended, wiped out finito capute. Its over for Jesus, the same was it was over for Moses after Jesus became a prophet.

@Morpheus24:

What are you talking about?

Am talking about your garbage.

The poster asked if anyone is really doing the will of Christ. You answer that all christians are fake and back up your theory by the wildlly publicized propaganda of Paul and his twisting of Christianity.

The heading/title is very explicit. Read it again!

I respond to you in an attempt to make you see how ridiculous your allegations are when one can point to stories in Islam that one can deduce are borrowed from stories perpetuated by arabians long before islam. You still don't get it.

Are you saying that "Alujonnu," (am a Yoruba boy) does not exist? What about the Egbere? What about Marmaid or mammywater?

Jinn or Genies are an arabian myth just like the aladdin story and Ali baba and the forty thieves, just like Ogbanjes or Abikus.

We are talking about jinn or genies here. I wo lo mo ibi ti o ti ri abiku to nso ni pa e!

Explaining to me what does not make sense, does not make sense.

Its too late. Go to bed. And tomorrow is another day! You didn't get it loju momo. How can you get it ni Oru ogo jon.

Before you accuse anyone else of false beliefs, take a good look at yourself first.

I did. Am alright. My belief is correct. Alhamdulillah. I am very clear that God is One Lord. Not 3 and there are no multiple personality god in my belief.

Remove the speck from your eye first

Am trying to. But there is no speck or "log," in my eye.

Sure. Islam can talk about many things and never even mention OT and or NT. Examples, Allah: A forever topic. Malaika. Jinn. Jannah. Jahannam. Kutub. Nanbi. Ambiyya. Akhira. Ardhi. Sammah. Want more?

@Morpheus24:
You see, the spiritual being that is bashful is Angels. And not Jinn or Genies. Genies have free will, like humans. The Angels have no free will. In the lives of humans, you see people who are pious are bashful around opposite sex who they are not related to in any way and old enough to understand sexuality.

But the folks who do not have any piety don't care. You will therefore realise that Angel Gabreil, representing the Angels was bashful. While Iblis who became Shaitan is representing th Jinn or Genies. He has no shame and lacks bashfulness. thats why he cheerlead people to doing evil. He makes a man wanna look until it becomes unabashfulness. It leads to uncontrollable urge to this horrible behavoiur and other evils.

Is that what you want, having no shame?