₦airaland Forum

tpiar:
Your posts are too lengthy for me to want to analyze in detail, so I just pick points here and there to respond to.



Afefe is recent because an older Yoruba word for wind is ategun.

One easy way to guess which words are recent and which are not likely to be loaned are break it down into it's constituent parts and see if it still has a meaning.

Afefe (fluff) is difficult to explain in Yoruba because it's a whole word and has vowels inserted between the consonants, meaning it could be a loan word from another language.

Ategun on the other hand, is descriptive (remember this is important because most subsaharan Africans do not have a written language therefore they store their history via oratory, among other things. You can analyze ategun (wind) by breaking it into smaller units and it still makes sense. Ate could be to step or we step (on), referring to the far reaches of the wind which goes everywhere. Long refers to the same. Te can mean spread as in a long or wide spread.

The clusters of ofurufu, afefe, efulefu and fluff which all have similar descriptive contexts (wind, emptiness, etc), indicates the Yoruba words are recent additions. Recent could mean anything up to 200 years, minus or plus.

nlPoster:
Awosonmo is ancient Yoruba, ofurufu is recent Yoruba.

And no , it does not appear to be a loan word since it is descriptive (skin or cover of the expanse).

It's like saying oorun (sun) is from Horus. Or osan (afternoon) was derived from the English word sun. Also note oorun/oru meaning sun and darkness, both referring to the condition of the sky. And also included in Y oru ba.

Awo in Yoruba typically applies to ancient secrets eg wizard, skin, cover, conceal, etc in certain contexts.

A word like alubosa could be considered a loan word since you cannot break it into constituent parts, it would have no meaning.

nlPoster:
Perfection has no place in linguistic analysis (different from interacting in a language with a view to being understood by the speakers).

Context is what you consider (when you have a good understanding of the language). And various languages have varied modes of discourse. Yoruba for example, typically talks at more than one level in interactions, meaning a traditional Yoruba person conversing with you is is in more than one context- the one you think is it and other levels unknown to you.




having said all that, accurate meanings are definitely important in order to reduce ambiguity.

absoluteSuccess:
Why dear brother?

TAO11:
True!

Also, I think nlPoster 's interpretation of the Edo "ISO" (meaning "SKY" ) through the Yoruba lens of "AWOSONMO" doesn't quite capture the sense of the word.

And my reason for this is quite simple and straightforward ---- the Yoruba word "AWOSONMO" (or simply "SONMO" ) is a relatively recent loanword from the Arabic "SAMA' " i.e. "سماء" (meaning "SKY" ).

I am inclined to thinking of the Edo word "ISO" along the lines of the Yoruba word "ÌSO" (with the actual diacritics still being "do-re" ).

And the Yoruba word "ÌSO" conveys the following sense:

"Tie", "Hang", as well as "Suspend" (as in suspend up in the air by been hung or tied).

This last significance brings the Edo "ISO" close to the Yoruba "ÌSO".

Having said that, I have updated the video of the interview by the 'yesterday' Ooni on the events around the first visit of an Ooni outside Ife.

TAO11:
I thought I should share this interesting piece of historical information on the first time an Ooni of Ife will set foot 'outside' of his palace:

It was in the year 1903 when the then Ooni of Ife, Oba Adelekan Olubuse 1, was invited to Lagos by the then Governor General of the Southern Protectorate, Sir William MacGregor.

The Ooni was invited as a last resort measure to settle an important and fast escalating supremacy feud between certain Yoruba OBAs (I believe the Elepe and the Akarigbo --- I'm not 100% certain at the moment who and whi it was) in the Lagos region.

The issue had evaded several resolution attempts by the Britush Government representative until the British Government thought it was time that the Ooni himself stepped in.

Now, it must have been a really serious issue to warrant the Ooni to vacate his throne. No Ooni had done that before --- It was a pseudo-sacrilege.

Many sacrifices were offered en-route Lagos and in the whole process of his vacating his esteemed and imperial throne. The British Government bore all the cost of the sacrifices.

The Ooni quenched the duel as if it never happened, and as if no one ever attempted to solve the issue.

The most interesting aspect of all this, for me, is as follows:

As soon as the news reached all the kings in southern Nigeria (from Warri down to the Yoruba interior --- including the Oba of Benin and the Alaafin of Oyo) that the Ooni vacated his palace; they independently left their thrones and lived outside of their palace until the news reached them that the Ooni was back in Ife.

As if they informed each other, they considered it sacrilegious to continue living in their respective palaces while the had Ooni vacated his (although temporarily and for good cause).


All these information is well documented in more details in the Government Gazette for the Colony of Lagos published on Saturday, February 28, 1903.

Also attached below is a video interview of the 'yesterday' Ooni of Ife, Oba Olubuse II which speaks to the same issues:

cbrass:
No, there is this man called Laji Abass.. He is a great researcher, just watch him. He confirms most of my findings too.. Just prepare your self to hear the truth and be humble. There are some things you have heard about Yoruba history that you may find difficult to throw away. Once again the best place to get history is the people involved in the history

TAO11:
Below is an example of the incontrovertible argument on the word "OBA":



For the Yorubas, there is a difference between A ROYAL TITLE and the word "KING" itself.

(a) Throughout all the diverse Yoruba kingdoms, the word "OBA" simply and clearly means "KING". No more, no less.

(b) However, in addition to this aforementioned Yoruba word for "KING", each of the different Yoruba kingdoms also reserve an exclusive word to describe its own monarch.

(c) These exclusive words or ROYAL TITLES distinguish one Yoruba OBA from the other Yoruba OBA.

While the word "OBA" itself simply means "KING", these royal titles (such as: OONI-IFE, ALAAFIN-OYO, OLUBADAN, etc.) do not simply by themselves mean "KING"; although they are used to exclusively describe the respective kings.

(d) For example: "OONI-Ife" by itself simply means: "THE ONE WHO OWNS Ife".

"ALAAFIN Oyo" (from: "OLU-AFIN Oyo" ) by itself simply means: "THE SOVEREIGN OF Oyo PALACE".

"OLUBADAN" (from: "OLU-IBADAN) by itself simply means: "THE SOVEREIGN OF IBADAN".


(e) This practice of reserving an exclusive ROYAL TITLE (which by itself does not necessarily mean "KING" for a monarch is similar, for example, to the ancient Egyptians' practice.

Although the word "PHARAOH" (i.e. "PER-AA" ) exclusively describe the ancient Egyptian kings, the word itself does NOT mean "KING".

Instead, it actually means "THE GREAT HOUSE".

It is simply a royal title which runs side-by-side the actual ancient Egyptian word for "KING".

(f) Having clarified the practice of having unique royal titles to distinguish one Yoruba Oba from the other Yoruba OBA, I will now turn to the historical analysis of the word "OBA" among the Yorubas and among the Edos/Binis.

(g) To proceed, I like to put forward the following principles which will serve as my framework for establishing who owns the word "OBA":

(1) The Yorubas have been using the word "OBA" for their kings long long before the Binis ever would.

(2) The etymology of the word "OBA" for "KING" is not found in the Edo/Bini lexicon; but clearly present in the Yoruba's.

(3) The Binis have an actual Edo/Bini word in their own language which clearly and straightforwardly means "KING".


Regarding the point (1) on the historical timeline:

It is well known that there have been two different kingly dynasties in Benin.

It wasn't until the beginning of the second dynasty that the word "OBA" first described Benin monarchs. Prior to then, they used an entirely different word.

In the testimony of Oba Ewuare 2 in the video I attached, he admits that the first use of the word "OBA" to describe a Benin monarch was for a man from Ile-Ife called Oranmiyan.

I hope you're gradually beginning to appreciate the reality.

Moreover, prior to Oranmiyan and his ancestor Oduduwa, the Ile-Ife people have been using the word "OBA" to designate the rulers of the different settlements of their collective territory.

Historically, Ile-Ife comprises some13 primary settlements in those early times, namely: Ido, Iloromu, Ideta, Odun, Iloran, Oke-Oja, Imojubi, Iraye, Ijugbe, Oke-Awo, Iwinrin, Parakin, and Omologun.

In these pre-Oduduwa times, these settlements were independently ruled by different monarchs called "OBA".

Some of the most prominently identified of these pre-Oduduwa OBAs whose "names" have come down to posterity together with the settlements they ruled over are: Obatala and Obawinrin.

Obatala was in charge of the settlement known as Ideta prior to his exile from Ile-Ife during the civil war that broke out when Oduduwa rose to prominence.

Obatala and his loyalists re-established a version of Ideta within the thicket of some forest away from Ife. This Ideta was called Ideta-Oko to serve as contrast to the stately Ideta (also called Ideta-Nla or Ideta-Ile) in which they lived while at Ile-Ife.

"Obatala", over time, became the contraction of "Oba Ideta-Nla"; that is, "King of Ideta-Nla".

The etymology of "Obawinrin", in contrast, is quite more obvious. "Obawinrin" became the contraction of "Oba Iwinrin"; that is, "King of Iwinrin".

Among these pre-Oduduwa kingly personages who have all long been deified is Obameri. He probably ruled over a sub-settlement.

All these "names" date to the pre-Oduduwa era. In other words, long long before Oranmiyan who will later become the FIRST REFERENT of the word "OBA" for "KING" in Benin kingdom.

I hope you see the point here.


Regarding point (2) on the etymology of "OBA":

The original, indigenous, and extant "Oba-sounding" word in the language of the Edo/Bini people comes from the Edo root-word "BA".

This root-word in simple, clear, and unequivocal terms means "SHINE".

From this Edo root-word "BA", the derived forms "O-BAA", "NOBA", and "N'OBA" each have the following respective meanings "IT IS SHINING"; "RED"; and "THAT WHICH SHINES".

Even a consideration of the derived form "N'OBA" still doesn't do justice to the etymology, because it simply means "THAT WHICH SHINES", or "THE ONE WHO SHINES" by extension to humans.

This meaning is by no stretch of the imagination one and the same thing as "KING".


The derived forms from the Edo root word "BA" are clearly entirely different words from the word "KING".

The similarity of these derived forms to the actual Yoruba word "OBA" (for "KING" ) begins and ends in the somewhat similar sounds. No more, no less.


Now, what about the Yoruba etymology of "OBA"? Does it mean "KING"? Let's find out.

The Yoruba word "OBA" comes from the Yoruba root-word "BA" which in simple, clear, and unequivocal terms means "RULE".

For example, this Yoruba root-word is found in the Yoruba statement: "Oba BA Lori Ohun Gbo-gbo."

From this Yoruba root-word "BA", the derived form "OBA", therefore means "ONE WHO RULES". No but or if.

It becomes obvious that "ONE WHO RULES" is unproblematically the equivalence of the single word "KING".

In sum, the word "OBA" (for "KING" ) as used today by the Binis is not originally found in the Edo/Bini lexicon, because the etymology "King" is not found from the available Oba-sounding Edo word.

The use of "OBA" for "KING" in Benin kingdom began with the Ife-Yoruba man called Oranmiyan, as rightly admitted by Oba Ewuare 2 in the video I attached earlier. Earlier indigenous Benin rulers were not so referred.

Again, it becomes obvious what this implies.


Regarding point (3) about the original and extant Edo/Bini word for "KING":

The logical outstanding question in the light of the foregoing therefore is:

What then is the original Edo/Benin word for "KING" since "OBA" has been demonstrated to be originally alien to the Edo/Bini lexicon??

In simple, straightforward, and unequivocal terms, the original Edo/Bini word for "KING" which actually still survives even till date is "OGIE".


Many indigenous Bini historians always acknowledge this, but without realizing its implication.


Cheers

MetaPhysical:
Happy New Year to all!

To my brothers on both sides of the argument in this thread, I wish you all God's blessings, protection, good health, joy and happiness!

Let's have new breakthroughs on the footprints left by our ancestors.

Oodua Agbe wa o!

babtoundey:
Just as you are asking, I'm also asking you who is the conquered and who is the conqueror? Who influences whom?

Thank God you admitted Oranmiyan, a Yoruba prince was a king in Benin. What language did he was he speaking? What culture did he practice, what gods did he worship? Did he jettison all he had all his life known and immidiately acculturated into Benin culture? infact, while departing his father's kingdom, did he go all alone without any Entourage? and when he wanted to depart Benin, did he go without leaving any trace aside a son. He was their to establish a non-existing political institution. This he obviously could no attain alone. While in Benin, he could not have jettisoned his belief (religion and language).

if you consider these closely, without the sentiment you're inclined to view history, you will see facts staring at you.

I may as well ask you, Is Olokun Benin good? is ogun a Benin God (funny enough, you guys even call him ogun Onire. Where is the Ire you attached him with)?

Some of you even use the exclamation "yeepa!". Is that also a Benin expression.


Yoruba influenced and birth some Benin traditional system. But arrogance and supremacist agenda will not let people like you admit. You will keep spinning theories upon theories to suit your purpose. But the truth, no matter what you do to conceal it, will always be seen.

Kapeter:
Yoruba had early contact with people from other parts of the west because of the nearness to the atlantic ocean.

Whoever say Yoruba accepted islam during the fulani war is lying, Yorubas were already muslims before then though very few. Yoruba accepted Islam from Malian merchants/traders.

It was reported that when the Malians came, when it's time for prayers, they usually asked for a shield where they can pray from their Yoruba host and as time goes by, their Yoruba hosts start joining them in prayers and that was how Islam came about in Yorubaland.

If you notice, Muslims in Yorubaland are called elesin Male, it is actually elesin Mali(that is people of Malians religion). That was how they were described when they first aceepted Islam from Malians and it persist till today.


There were already muslims in Yorubaland before Dan Fodiyo conquer the hausas through his jihad self.

MetaPhysical:
He is going to ask for your methodology.

I think Baba came in with Christian worshippers praising and eulogizing God through the trinity.

L'oruko BaBa, ati Omo, ati Emi Mimo!

Before its widespread usage and acceptance, Ba is what Yoruba used.

Baa mi -
Baale -
Bale

But now how do we explain Babatunde, Babajide, Babayemi...if Baba is foreign?

cbrass:
Lol.. Bro it is not me you Will argue with oo.. From your spelling sef it shows you don't know the hidden history about Ogun. I will help you with a YouTube name. Search foe Itan Yoruba on YouTube, then you will see I am not wrong afteral

cbrass:
. that is entirely not true.. I used to think it was so before not until I starred to explore, even in Ile Ife they know Ogun was Oduduwas son but they just deliberately kept quiet about it. The Okanbi name is the name Oyo people gave Ogun lakaye

macof:
Sort this out with MetaPhysical because according to him
Aramean is a corrupted form of Oranmiyan

You both don't even have the same "clues"
Your clues are just all over the place like a babies diarrhea... No coordination, no consistency, no relevance

But of course, after all each of you are using your individual imagination so it will always come out with unmatchable "clues"

Notice I put quotes on that

PS. The Arameans come from the Syrian enclaves not Iraq
I honestly don't want to have to embarrass you on this one again

macof:

Obalufon:
you are not a yoruba man Macof

macof:

TAO11:
Smiles at am I sure! Yes bro, I met an Ivorian Yoruba who is still my friend even as I type.

I will discuss this with them and try convincing them about Nairaland.

TAO11:
In fact, it wasn't until very recently that I met a friend on an online platform who made me realize that the Yoruba influence went even as far as Ivory Coast.

Their profile on the online platform reads: an Ivorian Yoruba, and that got me curious a little even though I "reconciled" that their family must have been originally Nigerian.

On inquiry, they confirmed that their family was never Nigerian. They noted that the information passed down from their "ancestors" is that their roots is in what is known today as Nigeria.

They speak Yoruba language quite well, and that was jaw-dropping and eye-opening for me.

Perhaps Drogba is truly Derogba as has been widely claimed, though jokingly, by many.

Obalufon:
aboriginal people in west Africa coast don't have clothing culture they look different from us ...