₦airaland Forum

freecocoa: I disagree with you, how can you say the killing is being frowned on cos those boys were like us?
Listen even if those boys were almajiri's as you put it, I'm sure the case would also get this much publicity and emotional reaction from people with a conscience and heart. Did you even watch that video? Man I wouldn't even wish that type of death for my worst enemy, I may wish someone dead in my moment of anger but not such a painful one.
You may say that the cops are really working maybe because the parents of the Aluu4 have what it takes to make the police work in this country, the only thing I can agree with you on is that if the slain boys had no connection to wealth, the matter may die down without justice being served but as for people not caring and showing emotions, that's a big lie.

That video depicts one of the darkest and most gory part of our nature but as I said earlier,

the barbarism is not restricted to Aluu community.

Let me also clarify that I never implied that the opulence of the boy's family had anything to

do with the way the case has been taken up, and also do not agree with that assertion. The

whole issue has reached public consciousness to a level where there can be no two outcomes as

regards police reaction.


As regards, the issue of them being so much like us, Truth is that empathy is more easily

achieved and more effective when it is easy to put ourselves (or loved ones) directly in the

shoes of victims. It no doubt played a major, major albeit subtle part. How many times have

you heard the statement, 'It could have been our sons, brothers . . . .'

I do not intend to add to the library of macabre clips that Nigerian have being viewing for

the last few days so I'll refrain from posting links here but if you have the stomach for it,

go to youtube and use the search term 'jos killing hausa' or 'jos killing ed il fitr'. You can

make your pick from the numerous videos that come up about the killings I talked about earlier.
A group of ppl coming back from prayers where waylaid by a mob who not only killed them, but
butchered and roasted their bodies . . .and wait for it, ate them (in full glare of video cameras)


Bad as it sounds, the whole sordid affair could not have gained much traction, except within

the hausa community, who if you'l admit do not have as much influence in mainstream media as we

do. Truth is, there is just something about those boys that makes the atrocity feel closer to

home.


But let's even for a minute assume that am wrong, does it not worry you freecocoa, that has a

civilized society, it will take a barbaric video for us to realise that we need to stand up

against inhumanity ? really what does that say about us.
In case you missed it, I'll quote this classic by Sisi Kill on sister thread

Sisi_Kill: What have I learnt from the ALUU Debacle? I have learnt that if we

don't see the minute by minute, second by second killing of another person, we really don't

care.

This explains why no one is really hot under the collar for the Boko Victims. Hellooooo, how

can we scream for justice for them when we weren't given the chance to see their intestines

explode right out of their bodies or their heads blown clean off of their shoulders??!! Duh!!!



Yep, if you want people to have "sleepless nights" over, be "appalled" by, "wring their hands"

in concern at. . . the injustice meted on you, you'd better have someone film it and the more

gruesome it is, well. . .the better for you.

THIS is what I learnt from the ALUU debacle.

I will state emphatically that justice needs to be served to the killers in this case but FAR

more needs to be done for me to agree we are making any kind of progress. Until then, for me,

its same of the same.

Logicboy03: First of all, I don believe in your God or heaven, so you cant threaten me with hell.



Also, for you to say that those that dont believe in God are all fools and evil, you should look at the computer/tablet/phone that you are using.


Apple/Iphone- Steve Jobs- Zen Buddhist. Doesnt have a personal god

Microsoft- Bill Gates- Atheist/agnostic. Doesnt believe in god

Electronics- Japan- 64% dont believe in god

Electronic- China/South Korea- majority dont believe in god



Nigeria- 98% believe in god. number 1 in corruption.

maclatunji: So what is your point?

Lionel Messi believes in God. How does that change the topic at hand? It is quite ironic that whilst you seek to deny God, you look to your fellow human beings for validation. How low can you get?

Classic response there, maclatunji

Logicboy03: Jesus tells us about the good samaritan and heaven

Behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read it?"

He answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind [Deuteronomy 6:5]; and your neighbour as yourself [Leviticus 19:18]."

He said to him, "You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live."

But he, desiring to justify himself, asked Jesus, "Who is my neighbour?"

— Luke 10:25–29, World English Bible



Jesus replies with a story:
Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he travelled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, 'Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.' Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbour to him who fell among the robbers?"

He said, "He who showed mercy on him."

Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do."

— Luke 10:30–37, World English Bible

@LogicBoy
Though you sound very much atheist but could you believe that God just used you to bless me with this passage above ?
No wonder Jesus says learn from the fig tree, how much more logicboy
I just understood it in a new way.
Jesus actually implied that the Samaritan was an example of someone who deserved eternal life for showing love to his neighbour. God bless you brother. I pray more anointing upon you and may you one day have the 'way to Damascus experience'.

I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ but very open minded about it.
I don't think it is in my place to judge the experiences of other people. I can't determine who is in Hell or Heaven or who will be going there or not.



And by the way, Logicboy, Reyginus was right.
The samaritans were actually a mixed race who practiced a form of syncretism of Judaism and the paganism of the nations they inter married with

I agree with Cheleku's assertion's that the story is not gaining traction in popular consciousness just because the victims belong to the upper echelons of society.
He chose to put the cause on the video that went viral, that I must say is just partly right.

From my perspective, the major reason we want 'Justice' in this case is the US factor, not really the video per se.

As freecocoa rightly put, they could have been OUR children , OUR younger siblings.

Their girlfriends as ssen on FB pix looked like OUR junior sisters, they loved and sang rap music , the way we do. There parents are just like OUR parents . . . . .

but that worries me ! What about people who don't look like us . . .do we care ?


I mentioned the Kano lynching issue, many seemed not even to have heard about it. I mean these guys were probably Boko Haram anyway, never mind and besides there was no video, So maybe it would not have been that Gory. Lie !!!! It was every inch as gory !

Okay, the Kano issue had no video, but what about the case of the Hausa Muslims that were slaughtered on the way back from prayers during Salah festivities a year or two ago in Jos. There are even more versions of that video online than the ALUU issue. And by the way those clips were arguably more gory, those guys were cut in pieces, roasted and eaten (yes, you heard me right), eaten in broad daylight. Why has there been no outcry? why was the emotional outburst not so pronounced ?
Am not a student of Psychology but my little thinking tells me that it is because those 'Kaftan wearing mallams' didn't look like US. Their kids look like almajiris, not like us, not like our brothers.

Now my question is, if we can be so selective about Justice then it is no longer Justice. Hence, my emphasis on the issue of unbalanced emotions. Don't get me wrong, am not against the ALUU4 agitations. it is actually right, justice needs to be served but even in the midst of our outcry, it is so glaring that we are missing the bigger picture. We've missed the forest and we are saving a tree.

Finaly, I want you to answer this question with all sincerity, If the four boys killed were fulani cattle rearer boys, 'alleged' to have attacked a ALUU vresident, with or without a gun, whether late at night or early in the morning. Even if their lynching was covered on video, do you think there would have been such an outcry ? from Ezekwesili, From Linda Ikeji, From Dbanj, From the whole of Nairaland,

The major problems which we have failed to see here is our propensity for violence as a people and the generally feeling of inadequate security.
Agreed the ALUU debacle can be an opportune moment to kick start the righting of these wrongs but the reactions I am seeing all over point to the contrary.
As the wise man said 2000 yrs ago, It is far easier to remove the speck from the other eye than the log in our own eyes.

Even people from Jos, Kano, Lagos, Benin, Aba are baying for ALUU blood

freecocoa: 1. I don't remember the Kano incident (don't think I heard of it) so I don't know exactly how to answer your questions on that.
2. I also don't know about the Dogo place and what went down there but I'm certain the community must have felt and still feel pain and anger and would probably kill any gunman\men. I didn't ask why Aluu has\need a vigilante group cos it is very common and normal for communities to have a vigilante group, all the communities I know have one so that's an irrelevant question. I know that Mob justice is rampant in Nigeria due to some factors like inefficiency of our security forces, some people are just naturally wicked and blood thirsty so they kill without much ado, crowd mentality("I saw someone doing it, so I joined", some do it cos they have been affected one way or the another and want revenge etc.
Well good points you raised but I must say that I may sound very emotional about this case but that doesn't mean I've lost my ability to reason.
True things like this have been happening in this country with little attention drawn to it, does that mean we should continue folding our hands and let it keep happening? The fact that this one was videoed and many people got to see it is probably why it has raised many eyebrows, I for one has never seen anything like it in my life because you will never find me where a crowd is gathered for things like that(I'm even rarely in any crowd) so its kinda new for me, again those boys were just kids with promising futures, the most annoying is the manner in which they were killed, its beyond barbaric and very malicious, it didn't look to me like just a mob action, it was done with so much hatred. I even think people should be happy that this matter is being taken very seriously, it will may help our security officials sit up and help people realize that laws shouldn't be taken into their hands.

cheleku: I agree that until the underlying factors precipitating these kind of dastardly acts are curbed, we may well not part with such incidents just yet. Poverty being a chief culprit.
But again, is it morally right we fold our arms and do nothing because these kind of heinous crimes have been variously commited in the past without reprimand of any sort? I say no my friend. Secondly, you can't liken this case to the Dogon Nahawa massacre; that was mainly an ethnic tussle between the Beroms and the Fulanis. A little research might give you an insight on what caused the massacre. Thirdly, I'm not of the opinion that this case is gathering so much dust because the victims were from the upper echelon of the society. I rather it was because of the way it was filmed,and how it went viral on the internet. We wouldnt be debating this issue if not for that gruesome video. Finally, why do we often implicitly bid the rich evil? We are quick to gloat over their misfortunes. That, my friend, is a wrong mentality.

@freecocoa and Cheleku,

I appreciate your response. Fair enough and I can say you are right.
I also appreciate that you've been able to see this as a discourse between two slightly differing opinions, nothin more.

And to clear all doubts, I also support justice for the ALUU4

but I still have my worries, first let me respond to some points by Cheleku

1. Nland is a faceless forum, there is no way to determine if I am rich or poor. So its a bit of a jump to assume I wish rich people evil. Any poor person who wishes the other evil because of wealth has already cursed himself. He can never be rich, else evil will befall him

2. Berom/Fulani - I was based in Jos at the time that crisis occurred and I have a full picture of the background. It is not really analogous to this incidence. The point I am making is that the fallout from that incidence (and others) is enough to make any individual or community lose faith in the ability of the police for protection, to believe that self policing/taking the law into ones hands is the only way out. Which is a popular sentiment shared all the way from Aba to Idumota to Kano to Ikorodu to ALUU and even the boys in question.


I will give my full response in the next post

zubbainno123: Ironically, ♍Ɣ pastor has bEen preaching on this same issue of tithing for D̶̲̥̅̊ past two weeks. He as been trying S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ hard †̥☺ convince we his brethren on D̶̲̥̅̊ many blessings associated with D̶̲̥̅̊ paying of tithe nd ofcuz the dreadful curses that comes with the non payment.

..........After seeing how serious he was on the matter, I decided †̥☺ seek some findings S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ as †̥☺ be on a safer side with ♍Ɣ creator becuz †̥☺ be honest with you, have never paid a dime for tithe before. S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ after some careful investigations on D̶̲̥̅̊ said issue I was able †̥☺ discover that, indEed we r not mandated as Christians †̥☺ pay tithe.
Now D̶̲̥̅̊ reason why ‎​A̶̲̥̅♏ saying I̶̲̥̅̊S̤̥̈̊ this I̶̲̥̅̊S̤̥̈̊ that, my pastor has decided †̥☺ preach on D̶̲̥̅̊ issue for a month nd has two weeks more †̥☺ finish it. Now I feel its kinda wrong for him or any other pastor for that matter †̥☺ be preaching false doctrine and I feel like speaking up against it right in the middle of his sermon.
S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ ♍Ɣ question now I̶̲̥̅̊S̤̥̈̊, do ‎​U̶̲̥̅̊ guys think its right if i challenged him when he comes up †̥☺ preach

I've been in a similar situation. Don't challenge him, I'll advice you to schedule an appointment with him to explain your view point and your findings/conclusion.
That was exactly what I did in my own case. and the Pastor(we had a close relationship) also explained why he continued to preach the Tithe message. Though, I didn't fully agree but I understood his points (had to do with the level of spiritual maturity of his flock . . . .actually a topic for another day).


The issue is that, Tithing is not a Christian Practice. It was only obtainable in Judaism. If you doubt me, check through the new testament, if there was ever any verse advocating that Christians should Tithe. - None.

The only time Jesus talked about tithing was when he indicated that it was a less important issue in the Law (Judaism) - Matt 23v23.
I don't think we have any Jew here on Nairaland

Christians all through the new testament were only encouraged to give of their own freewill.

torkaka: [b]in the eyes of the law a thief is one who commits theft. only the authorised "legal" body can declare one a thief!(this is the law). coxson is not an authorised person to proclaim anyone a "thief". so legally speaking, by shouting "thief,thief" coxson has by himself vested powers in himself to declare some one thief! fact: before going to coxson's house those boys were not declared thieves or criminals by any authorised legal body and so in light of the circumstances(and in the eyes of the law) were not thieves! since no legal body declared those boys thieves,coxson(with intent best known to him) ascribed himself with the power to declare them thieves thereby indirectly causing bodily harm to the boys which led to their death.
now the question is, what court declared those boys thieves before coxson shouted "thief,thief"? the right thing for coxson to have shouted is "help,help". now legally, by shouting "help" instead of "thief" would have made the case a bit complicated(like some of you want it to be), since coxson is not an authorised legal body he had no right calling anyone thief and by his so doing, he deceived the community/vigilante! that's the law!!

like i said before, coxson doesn't have to be there to be an accessory to murder or aide and abett a crime![/b]

Please try and convince me that it was not a graduate of a Nigeria university that wrote this else it will be the one of the greatest indictment of our educational system.
And to think that other educated ppl have been giving their backing to this piece beggars belief.


And by the way Chrisbenegor, when will you ever learn ?
Next time you see any body stealing in a public place(or approached by gunmen) beware lest you shout 'thief' because you are not authorized, neither do you have any powers vested in you.
Rather the clarion call should be 'help, help'. and don't forget to pass this info to everybody around you.


Sincerely, I appreciate the arguments of both sides but please lets endeavor to keep things sensible. I expect this to be an intellectual forum

Sisi_Kill: What have I learnt from the ALUU Debacle? I have learnt that if we don't see the minute by minute, second by second killing of another person, we really don't care.

This explains why no one is really hot under the collar for the Boko Victims. Hellooooo, how can we scream for justice for them when we weren't given the chance to see their intestines explode right out of their bodies or their heads blown clean off of their shoulders??!! Duh!!!

Yep, if you want people to have "sleepless nights" over, be "appalled" by, "wring their hands" in concern at. . . the injustice meted on you, you'd better have someone film it and the more gruesome it is, well. . .the better for you.

THIS is what I learnt from the ALUU debacle.

Sisi Kill,
am giving you a standing ovation for this.


The ALUU debacle has shown more of what is wrong with US than what is wrong with ALUU community.

midich: @ purist, u tok d words out of my mouth, we all are eagerly shouting death sentence....,like seriously wat happens to d innocent amongst dem? Abi we don 4get how d nigerian police works. And by d way wat happens to d police men who wia in d scene of d crime, d IG told us dat dey wia chased away with stones by d mob which contradict wat d suspects and tekena sis said. And have we ever asked ourselves wat
If dis young guyz didn't hire d so cald hardman and didn't go at d time dey went,
If d supposed owee, had paid up his debt,
If d supposed king hadn't given d go ahead order
And finally if d supposed law enforcement agent who just strolled away took up d case, thinz wouldn't ve turned out d way it did.

Nigerians doing the supposedly right thing the wrong way, Hence we NL shouldn't be quick at making ourselves d judge of dis case cos is beyond wat we can see or ve heard.
This also serves as a wake up call to the government who has showed the whole world how failed our security system is.

Thanks midich,
Your posts brighten my hope for this country.

At some points I was wondering whether it was because we men were 'heartless' that made it such that no woman had even come out to say that there are still a lot of questions to be asked about this whole issue.

And bless you for that quip about our security system.
FIRST AND FOREMOST, the whole issue is an indictment on our security system. A society where we see the need to setup armed vigilantes to protect ourselves (which happens everywhere all over the country)

A society where there was such a mob action going on for hours without the police being able to do anything about it shows that indeed the policing system is failing and has failed.

Indeed my opinion is that all the parties in this saga were both VICTIMS AND CULPRITS with the major culprits being the Nigerian Police Force

freecocoa: Wetin this one smoke? So one has to be my boyfriend before I can show empathy or be interested in the matter? If you must know, NOTHING has disturbed me this much ever in my life so it has become a personal case.
Those boys were people's children and I have siblings and relatives their age, I know the pain associated with their demise.
I actually don't type rubbish but that word is the exact definition of your post.

@freecocoa
I carefully chose to respond to your post because based on precedence, you seem at least to be a quite civil in responding.
I abhor violence, either physically or verbally, so please don't resort to insult if you choose to respond.

Now my points are thus :

1. You said you were quite disturbed by the whole issue and rightly so, but I pray thee, did you hear about the 2 guys that were lynched for allegedly being bomb trotting boko haram members.
Why was there not an outcry on their behalf? Did they not have parents or siblings? could there not have been a possibility that there were setup ? could it not have been possible that they were attacked because they were not Kano Indigenes ?
Why was it that many people on Nairaland gave Kano Indigenes a thumbs up for defending their community against Boko Haram ?
Was it because those people did not understand english and were not educated, hence they were worthless ? Why was there no police investigation ? Was it because there was no video ? or the Parents of those guys did not have access to the press like in this case ?
The argument am making here are making is that rather than being motivated by a sense of justice, most are actually being moved by emotions, which in itself is not wrong, but when not married with reason can lead to dire consequences as the citizens of ALUU are learning right now.


2. Have you heard of Dogo Nahawa, and Dogo Dawa ? Two communities that were attacked by gunmen in the middle of the night.
In Dogo Nahawa close to 40 lives(2010) were lost while ing Dogo Dawa (2012) about 20 people were allegedly killed.

Have you wondered why till date not one single suspect as been apprehended by the police ? despite the fact that in Dogo Nahawa, the indigenes even managed to obtain the ID card of one of the killers ? Do you know the emotional truama that the entire community will have to live through for decades to come ? Can you guess what will happen in Dogo Nahawa today if a strange gunman is found at night in their community, wether he came to rob or to kill or to recover a debt ?
Did you ever ask why ALUU had a vigilante team in the first place ? have you wondered why mob killings is so rampant in Nigeria and not just ALUU ? Lagos, Benin, Nairaland, everywhere.

I am totally against jungle justice and I abhor every form of violence. Also I am not against your agitations but I believe that there are many angles to this issue and only a holistic approach will put us ahead.

I know I might be attacked for this but the truth is that until the police is seen as effective, adequate and unbiased. Until the general populace are sure that a thief/armed robber will not be released from persecution just because is father is well connected or an indicted murderer will not be winning an election even when in jail. Then am sorry to say, Jungle justice will continue. This are the major issues that I feel we are failing to see in this whole saga

Purist: lol bro. Who knows? They say we're 'made' in twos, abi?

I just read your comment now and I'm glad to see there are still a few people who can reason rationally. Please feel free to duplicate the comment in as many outlets as you wish. People need to be made to see reason.

Also try to check this thread I made a few days ago:
Five Things I Learnt From The Aluu Debacle
https://www.nairaland.com/1072688/five-things-learnt-aluu-debacle

Seriously the greatest surprise was not just the fact that we echoed the same sentiments but then the close similarities in the wordings. At some points, I was wondering, did I write this without remembering when I did. Kudos bros.

I have checked your thread and made a comment. I intend to post that thread on my facebook page later in the day.
You are officially my nairalander of the year 2012. People like you give me a bit of hope for this country afterall

I just shot you a mail.

why are the moderators when you need them ?

Why did this thread never make the front page

Purist: And the jungle justice mentality is on display here YET AGAIN. With each passing day, I become more and more convinced that the ALUU incidence is just a microcosm of the larger - and sadly prevalent - Nigerian mentality.

These thirteen people, as of now, are only SUSPECTS, but we have over 95% of Nigerians here already calling for their head. "Burn them!" "Cut off their hands!" "Fry them alive in hot oil!" "Skin them alive!", etc. EXACTLY THE SAME THING the Aluu people did to those four boys who were only suspects at the time, but the people were also eager to "plank them", "burn them", "kill them". Whatever happened to innocent UNTIL proven guilty?

It is a pity that in our attempts to show concern and anger at this barbarism, we have also inadvertently revealed our true UGLY nature in the process. When next you feel compelled to shout and scream, "burn them alive!", "skin and kill them!", go stand in front of a mirror and you might just notice something very, very familiar.

aaah purist, you must be my twin brother separated from me at birth. I need to get your contact details to confirm. I will send you a mail shortly or did you read my previous post yesterday echoing the same very sentiment. If you haven't please click this link
https://www.nairaland.com/1075527/names-masterminds-gruesome-murder-aluu4/1#12576049


And by the way, I need permission to duplicate this your comments in other online outlets. Awaiting your response

The truth is that the police will do its very best to extricate itself in this issue. They are actually the most complicit.

Their dereliction of duty was what led to a society where the vigilante culture has become deeply ingrained in the psyche of the populace.
People no longer have any form of confidence in our judicial systems.
The most instructive notes I have heard on this issue has been the response of the CPC party. Measured and thorough.


However, my prayer is that a thorough and fair investigation be carried out and all the guilty parties involved in the dastardly activities of that early morning be brought to book and exposed. We all need to know the TRUTH

--------

Well Lima,
As long as you remain civil. I don't have a problem. You have a right to your contrary opinion and the least I can ask for is that you respect mine even if you don't agree with it or you find it totally unreasonable. That I say, is the hallmark of a civilized society.

Well as long as you do not even want to hear me out, there is little I can do.

but if you are a bit observant, you will realize that I totally abhor violence, whether it is to counter a previous action or not.


When some months back some two men were lynched in Kano for allegedly being a member of the Boko Haram, the thread was on Nairaland, and there was commendations all round, I stopped to ask the what if questions - what if they were not ? what if it was a setup ? what if there were mistake somewhere ?

When we heard that 4 young men were killed (and were regarded as robbers) I still started asking the same question in defence, what if they were not and so on.

Naturally, when the issue of the arrest was brought up, and I noticed the hint of condemnation even in the police report, which seemed they were playing to the gallery to suit people like you, and of course the barbaric comments all over Nland. I became a little concerned, have we covered all the bases and asked the question ?

I have (in my final year) in school, at the risk of my life, stood in defense of a boy who was being beaten by the SUG boys for being a thief.


Am sorry to say, but the reactions of most people here show that we as a people have a very high propensity for violence and it is scary.

You used the word fair trail in your last post, if indeed what you wish is a fair trail, we are on the same page but you must agree that the eagerness to condemn anyone without full evidence and investigation negates that very principle you just espoused.

And please do try to be civil, I keep wondering why we always have to resort to insults in putting our points across

Based on observations,

the set of people most likely to have defended the 4 boys had they had the chance before they were lynched are also the ones who have called for caution in the condemnation of the guy who raised the alarm.

What is being displayed here is a form of 'crowd mentality', which is exactly why the ALUU people all joined hands in participating in an unnecessary killing in the first place.

I remember Linda Ikeji (and even here on Nairaland) initially identified the boys as robbers before we started getting more info.
If only we learn as a people that regardless of the circumstance, we need to exercise caution and ask the 'whys', the 'ifs' and the what ifs before jumping to conclusion, the ALUU killing and several other meaningless deaths could have been avoided.


Question is: what do you think a crowd will do now, if suddenly they lay hands on the Coxson guy now . . . .
Your guess is as good as mine. Yet we condemn ALUU without taking a deep look at ourselves.

rman and pro 01,
please be ready for attacks left right and centre for pointing out obvious observations to people who are definitely not ready to entertain dissenting opinion.

Pro01, you especially hit the nail on the head with your previous mail regarding the police complicity and the likelihood that they might play to the gallery.

I'll urge you to quickly skim through the thread below to witness the level of attack I faced when making similar points earlier. Its beyond shocking.



https://www.nairaland.com/1075527/names-masterminds-gruesome-murder-aluu4/1

In case Bizbooks decide to come back to the thread, his comments on another thread provide food for thought

https://www.nairaland.com/1066589/3-students-burnt-death-uniport/46#12458620

In the course of discussing this terrible saga, a remarkable event has gone virtually
un-noticed. This thread was originally titled 3 'Student' Robbers Burnt To Death In
UNIPORT. Now the title simply reads 3 Students Burnt To Death In UNIPORT. The word "Robbers"
makes all the difference in the world. If it turns out that these students were not robbers,
then their killing will not be justified even under the laws of jungle justice.

In the beginning, several people here on Nairaland vociferously supported the actions of this
savage mob in the killing of the 4 students. It became very clear to me then that those
supporters do not understand how mis-guided and totally wrong a mob such as this can be. In
the 80s, I witnessed at least 10 lynchings as gruesome as the one that just occurred at
Uniport. Apart from their gruesomeness and savagery, all those lynchings have one thing in
common and that is: "Nobody in the crowd can tell you what the suspect did". If you ask, they
will say "He is a thief". If you ask what did he steal, they will say "I don't know".

So it is clear that 99% of the people that participated in the killings had no idea what
offense the students committed if any. If they do, they heard it from somebody else and did
not see it happen. All they know is that they have some students to lynch and that's it.
Unfortunately for a savage mob, that is enough reason to proceed.

People who are quick to judge will always make the same mistakes

the same error made by Aluu people, the same error made by the media at initial point when we heard about the killings, is also being made now.

When you are ruled purely based on emotions, then you jump to conclusions which might or might not be true.

Despite the attacks, I still maintain that these reactions and many other previous incidences show that the the Aluu Community might not be too different from most other Nigerian communities.


And while we point fingers, we need to take a long and critical look at our values as a society. The hypocrisy won't suffice

Limaoscar: You my friend should be a lawyer(if you're not one already) and a true leader of men and NOT that mo.ron called Pak. There is a moral question here that He's grossly blind-sided to and His legal approach is premised on some completely flawed building blocks as can be seen from responses to His madness.

Emotions will certainly run high...why not? that's normal given such babarism. Now I see why He's refused to see the videos even once! He is trying not to allow His emotions(His true conscience) take some of that. If you have kids, brothers, friends, nephews, neighbors....you will find the ordeal quite emotional and most people will naturally re-act the way NLers have done here given that justice is usually very slow in our Society,not fully exploited or completely absent. I live in the diaspora and I have lived here in the US for over a decade but I cannot cite the instances of justice in the western world as a first line of defence for somebody who clearly had no conscience. Pak even implied in one of His posts that there were 5 gun weilding people. That story with the "gun" had consistently said one(1) person had a gun. We didn't hear up until now that a shot was even fired or that they fought back with weapons or even inflicted injury on the false Alarmist. He(Pak) hasn't managed to see how the boys were paraded naked between 5-6 hours, humiliated, pumelled, marred by several beatings, planked severally and mercilessly, car tires around their necks with their eyes wide open, with fellow humans standing less than a meter away taking photos on mobile phones,many adamant and insensitive, He hasn't seen one of them with skull torn open...He hasn't heard their parents griefing and in shock...no, Pak cares-less because it's no one related to him perhaps but today He'd come up with a bull-crap of a legal angle. We dey watch.....This case by God's grace no go spoil, It will be justice by the law first before Mercy.

You did not have to resort to insults Limaoscar, I have ignored a lot of comments but you have shown some intelligence in laying your arguments that's why I have chosen to reply you specifically. Just see this as a contrary opinion, nothing more. We don't have to agree on everything, OK.

First off, you have managed to dissect a video that I have personally decided not to view. I do not think I can stand such barbarism. It definitely would have been too gory for me. Images live with me for a long time . . . .

that said, I know how you feel having viewed the video and all its gory scenes . . . scarred.


You said I implied that there were 5 gunmen - I never had any point said or implied that, please point it out if am wrong. I keep saying we do not have full details of the whole issue especially as regards the Coxson fellow.

You said this

you will find the ordeal quite emotional and most people will naturally re-act the way NLers have done here given that justice is usually very slow in our Society,not fully exploited or completely absent.

If you can make this excuse for nairalanders why not the other side - What am saying is if we continue to act based on sentiments especially in sensitive issues like this, then we as a society won't get anywhere.

A nairalander (OYB) recently recounted how he has been absent from the Nland because his head was splitted with a cutlass by some young robbers - (am not alleging anything here, neither is it an analogy). Am just saying that if Coxson felt his life was threatened by individuals wielding guns (or a gun) at him in the middle of the night. It is only natural for him to cry out.
Until we have details about what transpired before and afterwards, then we have to try to remain objective.

People who do things purely based on emotions and sentiments are like the wind. Blows here today, there tomorrow

texazzpete: You thrice accursed m0r0n.
You base your entire argument on the fact that 'boys approached the debtor with guns'. This has been shown to be false by the inability of the vigilante group to produce the so-called guns. On an entire assumption, you go as far as questioning the sanity of the police. Are you on crack?

Even if the boys had come with guns, they are very well known to the Coxson fellow. Knowing how highly charged the community may be over a spate of robbery attacks, you do not raise an alarm that the guys were armed robbers.

Convenient for you pseudo-intellectual scumbags, isn't it, that the guy who allegedly got away carried away all the weapons from the scene. Even if you are correct and he was threatened with guns, A legal position can be taken on the Coxson guy for not just raising a false alarm, but for not doing all in his power to convince the mob that the guys were not armed robbers that have been terrorising the area. Vigilantes can and will settle quarrels if called upon.

Finally, no matter how much emotions run high here, I doubt many reasonable people would torture and burn others and cackle with glee during the process.

You did not need to have used the words 'mor0n' - Texazpette.

Am only responding because you raised logical points that befits a response - On the issue of using the words 'lunacy' as regards the police , I agree that might have been a bit of a stretch but I decided not to edit that first post so as to maintain the integrity of this discourse.


On the issue of gun or no gun.
Now we have 3 versions

1. They went with guns
2. Only 1 carried a gun, the other 4 didn't know about it
3. There were no guns

Is this not enough reason my brother to realise that proper investigations need to be carried out on this issue before jumpin to conclusions ?? and hasn't that been the premise of my previous assertions.


The other paragraphs in your post are part conjectures, part logical but sincerely I do not have the energy presently to dissect and post a response to the parts I feel were wanting in your view points

BizBooks: @Pak,

At least Coxson owes it as a duty to everybody to explain what happened. I understand his
decision to go into hiding while tension is high. But he should at least send a statement
to the Police or to the Media explaining what happened. The longer he stays silent, the
higher the probability of his being complicit in the murders.

When the 5 boys invaded his residence as has been reported, they must have explained the
purpose of their visit ie to collect money owed. So there is no way anybody can convince
me that this is a case of armed robbery, unless Coxson comes out and say he does not owe
them any money.

as per your first paragraph - I agree with you 200%, Coxson has not covered himself in glory on this issue but to call him a criminal that deserves to be hanged - not just yet
On the second, you'll agree with me that they are conjectures, you and I have no idea what transpired but your tone sounds as those you might be seeing my angle a bit. We need to, even through our sadness and deep emotions, begin to be rational about this whole issue.

On the issue of whether it is armed robbery or not, I am not a lawyer but that might depend on definitions and semantics. Armed robbery according to this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbery
might have little to do with whether someone owes you money or not. (I know a lot of peeps will give me sticks for this) but all my life I believe in engagement and discourse. The ability to trash out issues reasonably and logical.

It is no surprise that the black race seems unable to innovate and make inventions seems any attempt to probe an issue beyond what appears to be obvious is met with stiff opposition and most probably attacks.

What am saying is that as far as this case is concerned, there are still a lot of questions to be asked. Aside from that, we will never arrive at JUSTICE AND TRUTH

Claus: I understand what you are trying to say. From a legal perspective, Coxson might have a defence. Clearly emotions are running high, otherwise we would all be able to discuss this thing rationally.

Apart from the people that were clearly seen in the video, I believe that the "innocent until proven guilty" mantra needs to apply. It will go a long way in sanitising our society.

However, this is what I think. After the alarm was raised (false or real), there were 5 to 6 hours during which the full story could be ascertained, and Coxson was unwilling (or unable - which is unlikely) to help get the story out. It is also very unlikely that they would have been killed if the crowd/vigilantes/chief believed they were students who had come to recover a debt as opposed to armed robbers. It is likely that Coxson knew this.

In summary, one cannot take a legal position on Coxson (I have already taken a moral position) until as much info as possible is available. We are getting info in trickles and it is tempting to jump in with a conclusion.

@Claus, if you ever decide to contest any elective position in this country please call me. I will be ready to sacrifice means and sweat to back your campaign and I mean it

You indeed are a rare breed amongst Nigerians.

For the first time, I have real fears for my country. The problem might no longer be just leadership, if indeed this is the level of reasoning of the average citizenry, then am sorry there is no hope. The abyss is the only direction we can go.


You mentioned two things - 'Clearly emotions are running high, otherwise we would all be able to discuss this thing rationally.' - Sir was it not the same high and unreasonable emotions that caused the initial killings in the first place, was it not the same emotions that caused the boys to attempt what they did in the first place - clearly we are being caught in a web of violence where everybody seems ready to throw an excuse for being unreasonable.


Apart from the people that were clearly seen in the video, I believe that the "innocent until proven guilty" mantra needs to apply. It will go a long way in sanitising our society. - Sir, please can you keep repeating this, so that maybe by continuous iteration, it might sink in

~vicky~:
Berem please dont jump into conclusion yet, the source gave another one having the same name with that of the suspect!! even a friend here in (nairaland) of the said pastor(suspect) claims that the he's innocent(the one you are accusing now), yes he's a pastor, married and a graduate..bla..bla.. but is he the suspect? we are yet to know, we shd not conclude immediately...please

God bless you Vicky.

Someone expressed surprise at my level of attachment to this issue but the what scares me is the level of reasoning and responses I've seen on the whole story.

I feel as If I have ALUU indigenes all over nairaland and the mass media and the whole country.
Sentencing people to death by hanging and what's not over an issue that we do not yet have full evidence to prosecute.

Based on Nairaland repsonses alone, it will be safe to come to the conclusion that what HAPPENED IN ALUU could have happened anywhere, in any community once we still keep reasoning like this.


The first line in your post encapsulates all I've been trying to pass across 'Please don't jump into conclusions yet'.
The four boys were killed because ALUU community jumped to an unfortunate conclusion

It is apparent that that my views on this issue differs from main stream opinion but I guess that is one of the hallmark of any civilized society. The ability to accommodate and debate differing opinions be it religious, cultural and on other issues.
The issues is not so much about being right but the fact that I believe there are many angles to this issue. And am wary of the 'ALUU mentality' which makes us willing to hang anybody so long popular sentiments are against them

In this vein, I will give my responses to those who have intellectually challenged and opposed my earlier post.

First off, BizBooks

BizBooks: Please stop making this OJ Simpson analogy. You know as much as I do that OJ's trial in
Las Vegas was a ruse. He was sent to jail this time because Americans believe he escaped
justice in the killing of his wife Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman 20 years ago not
because he went to retrieve his property from somebody.

If you owe somebody money and he comes to your house and ceases your property, you don't
raise an alarm and call him an armed robber. What you do is pay the debt and retrieve
your property. While they were been tried by the village elders as reported, why didn't
Coxson make it clear that they are not robbers?

Followed you for a while on Auto Section and you come across as very intelligent,
You have a different opinion to mine in this case and I agree you have the right to.

My response to your post is this - the first paragraph are totally conjectures. I don't need to make any defence or arguments about that. Those claims are totally unsubstantiated.
What we have are records that speak for itself.

On the second paragraph - If anybody can convince me that the boys didn't approach Coxson with A GUN, then I will totally agree that my position on this issue is not relevant - That forms the entire basis of my points.
I have not seen the video and I dont intend to -I am not a fan of snuff films but those who have seen it can help me by telling me the role they saw Coxson play in the entire murder process maybe then I will see another angle to the whole story.

I am not saying Coxson is not a criminal - I don't know him, neither have I made any comment as yet approving of the killings of those boys.

The point I kept stressing is that to call Coxson a criminal (and call for his head ) based only on the evidence at our disposal that he 'raised an alarm' when he was approached in the middle of the night (or early in the morning as some other respondent put it) by some gun wielding boys without knowledge of the prior relationship between him and the boys and what he did in the aftermath of raising the alarm or if he was even there afterwards is a bit forward and a form of jungle justice in itself

PBundles: No need to doubt, perjury my friend is a VERY SERIOUS OFFENSE and believe it or not is worse then murder as it falls with the realms of obstruction of justice. My cousin is State Proscuter in Illinois.

On the link you sent:

In September 2007, a group of men led by Simpson entered a room at the Palace Station hotel-casino and took sports memorabilia at gunpoint, which resulted in Simpson's being questioned by police.[39][40] Simpson admitted to taking the items, which he said had been stolen from him, but denied breaking into the hotel room; he also denied that he or anyone else carried a gun.

Sir, still on this ?

the charges read - Armed Robbery, Kidnapping, Coercion and Criminal Conspiracy.

Where did you see perjury ?

berem: you don't need to use another moniker to reply me. I am very sure you are one of those on nairaland who supported the killings of the students! Because you have buried your head in shame,you decided to use another moniker to display the same stupidity! Am not ready to throw insults on you or any other person,but I wanna let you know am not here to argue blindly or be a detective. I am here to protest for Justice against inhumanity.the truth has finally been told and whatever you say here is an act of futility!!

A simple search will show that I've had this moniker since 2007, some 4 years before you came on nairaland. but its okay

PBundles: O by the way since you asked let me answer you on the juice (OJ). He went to jail BECAUSE HE LIED! When asked if he broke in using a gun he denied and said he didnt break in and he nor his mates had a weapon. Turned out to be a lie as they also held the person captive, so is serving for gun possession, breaking and kidnapping NOT because he went to get his tuff back.

Now you are educatin me sir.

but please do check this article for facts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson#Las_Vegas_robbery

O.J's charges were 4 - Armed Robbery, Kidnapping, Coercion and Criminal Conspiracy.


I doubt if the US judicial system can send a man to jail for 33 years for lying

Thanks Chucky234 and PBundles
for your matured and reasonable response. I will make my rebuttal as soon as I can

berem: I think we are through hearing false stories.The Police and the media have told us what actually happened.trying to put "IF" in your own story doesn't change anything.the main business on ground is getting the criminals for them to face the wrath of the law!

Exactly what I was saying, the media report was that they went with a gun and made of with Coxson's property because of a debt coxson owed them and as I posited UNLESS there is evidence to show that Coxson participated in the lynching, then he can't be considered a criminal for raising the alarm for armed robbery, hence my raising the O.J. simpson analogy.

I am all for rational and fairness even in the midst of our mourning for the boys.

Frankly speaking, what the responses to the whole ALUU4 issue has taught me is that the average nigerian is no different from the ALUU indigenes. Ready to jump into conclusions without adequate evidence, ready for Jungle justice. Ready to make comments like this below

berem: The Murderfucker who raised false alarm is even a pastor? I fear for his congregation! They are really in deep shiiit! All of them should be found and if possible killed! They don't deserve to be alive! He who kills by the fire should also die by the fire! Justice delayed is Justice denied!

Aluu community is indeed a microcosm of the entire Nigeria

Wait a minute. Why is there so much lunacy in this country. Be it amongst the police force or the citizenry.

Unless, Coxson Lelebori Lucky actively participated in the lynching of those boys, then it stands to reason that he was 'completely guiltless' in the case of their death.

IF (and please note my capital if) the reports we hear that the boys actually approached the said coxson with guns (or a gun) and made away with his personal effects while trying to retrieve the debt he owed them. Then it stands to reason that Coxson had every right to raise an alarm of armed robbery, If they actually made away with his peronal belongings at gunpoint, then as I said, it stands to reason that from Coxson's perspective - it wasn't false alarm as claimed by the police spokesman, neither were they friendly gunmen.

What the ALUU residents now did in response to his alarm - his another thing, and unless it is proved that Coxson participated, then we need to thread with caution and not allow sentiments becloud our sense of Justice.

I do not know Coxson's prior relationship with the boys but it is only reasonable to say that owing someone 10kobo or 10 million does not give any one the right to attack me at night with a gun and make do with my belongings and Coxson had every right to cry out for help as any other reasonable person will.

My points are made from the perspective of what I've heard about the case. Please if there is a misinformation somewhere let me know

For educated folks out there, pls can you help me find out what O.J. Simpson is in Jail for presently ?

OJ Simpson led a group of men with guns to retrieve some personal property he believed was STOLEN from him.
He was charged and convicted for ARMED ROBBERY AND KIDNAPPING and sentenced to jail for 33 YEARS, so why are the Nigerian police behaving like the illiterates here (oh! sorry they are)

debrief08: Did a little research, i doubt if this thread is fake, seems the mother in law wahala has been on for years.

Pls can we have little info about your research.

As in where you able to maintain contact with the OP ? (who seems to have gone AWOL)