₦airaland Forum

wanaj0:
I've shared some experience before. Will recount a few:

As a newbie, bought Savannah Bank due to low PE not knowing that it is about to die. It is still in my CSCS. Small amount (10,000 units @ 0.80) but I learnt my lesson.

Bought UNTL at 4.00 because I gave an order to buy about 50,000 units of UNTL when it was 2.50. No price limit or expiry date, months later I got a contract note that they bought @4.00 when that was my exit price!!! Since then ALL orders goes with Price Limit and Expiration date. Still keeping the UNTL as a reminder!!!

Bought Presco at 10.50 and sold @ 11.50!!! That is nonsence in my books because I sold Okomu which now returned better to BUY Presco.

Bought Eterna @ 1.50, it dropped to 0.68 but rose finally to 3.50 at which point I sold. Sure you know the price of Eterna now.

Bought Oceanic at 7.00 Sold at 14.00. had to buy again @ 14.00 (after adjustment for bonus 1 to 4) less than three weeks after!!!!!!

So I never claimed to be a 'perfect' investor!!!! However in all, they fit into my RISK profile. No sweat over any. You may not beleiev it, I've not taken a serious look at the market for the past one month or thereabout! My mind is at rest so I am not worried by the daily flunctuations. Not saying that is right but that is what 'FITS' into my personality.

BTW, just submitted  CHAMS PP form now via UBA. Will be submitting anotehr batch through SKYE bank tomorrow.

I think Intercontinental was my second stock on the NSE in '04 and i told someone in the bank to buy 100K at N6.50 when they did the IPO i never realised he didnt buy jack. I couldnt find out because i didnt have a stockbroker at that time and sabuke no surface_{wetin be stockbroker at that time?} it wasnt until Sept '06 when they did the PO i realised there was nothing for me so the guy basically used the money to make himself some serious profit.

Anyway he 's since made amends and both of us are smiling now suffice to say that i go find stockbroker quick quick!

yodiyokun:
Oh for God's sake, why did you let the cat out of the bag - haba now. You wont let us see it to buy again oo

Ha ha ha don't worry about me o! its the silent readers on this forum you need to worry about

ololufemi:
@ All,

I hope Lawunion can drop to N4.50.

I dey eye the thing well well oh.

And UNIC is getting tantalizingly close to my entry/re-entry point and i'm with you on PHB actually i'm beside the train driver!

ololufemi:
@ Fatherof2, Wanaj0, Pumping777, aktopgun, et al


Unity Bank dey sweet my belle. Dropped 3+% today.

I am sure you know why. Any advice for me on this.

Just curious oga Wanaj0,

Which level you dey, N10 million or N100 million or N1 billion

Stock marshall wanajo_{i don remove the field and i intend to patent this title} is aiming at N1B and from what i can piece together he only needs a few more years to hit the target!

nzemillion:
Wanajo, pumping 777, Easimoni   and  the  rest  of  my  nairaland  family,   Please  what  you  think  about  AG  leventis   and  Equity  assurance.  My  broker  just  bougth  it  4  me  yesterday  without  my  concern,  and  when  i  asked  him  why?   he   told  me  it´s  a  good  buy    now, please  what  do  you  guys  think  about  that, 

In the first place no broker is allowed to transact any business on your stock-broking account without explicit instructions from you unless your portfolio is discretionary in which case you have given the broker the mandate to 'manage' your portfolio for you. In my books that is profesional  misconduct but because its naija make 'shakara' small small o and hopefully you would have made your point!

The mere fact that that you signed a mandate form does the broker any right to carry out transactions on your portfolio without you knowing about it. So if you make a loss on that transaction who's going to pay for it?

aktopgun:
     

i can't stop laughing because of the goings on here honestly. what between strategys and "which stock should i buy" etc
i give up honestly. but honestly this isnt funny

while we are all entitled to our own opinions and ideas, there is the thing of being your brother's keeper.  we all want to be independent as much as possible but we shouldn't let our brothers "dive into a tidal wave" (nice one ololufemi) under the pretext that we are all entitled to our own opinions. Remember its money we are talking about here and that means lives, not only of the owner but his wife, his children, mother, father, etc. This is even worse in Nigeria where there's a lot of borrowed money at expensive interest rates in the market. why do u think people in more developed markets around the world commit suicide on account on crashes in their stock markets? I see such people in my outpatients clinic everyday, depressed and hopeless after losing everything. we dey play with lives here in the long run.

i can't say this enough and probably won't say it again before people take offence, investing is a plan that starts with a mental introspective look at yourself and your personality. what can u tolerate? are u an anxious kind of personality, do u have a patient outlook on investments? etc. all these are questions u need to ask yourself befroe u throw in your hard earned money. Chei i wish i could drum this home hard enough. i've heard people here say thjey are new to stock business and want to be recommended stock to throw money at, ha your hard earned cash? to trust persons recommendation wey u never meet before or know where he is coming from? na wa o! on a faceless forum with unidentifiable people? i can only hope they use the recommendatuions to develop a story around the stock and be able to tell themselves and anyone why they are buying the stock apart from saying wanajo, easimoni, FOF2 et pumping recommended them      

i am my brother's keeper

You be psychiatrist?  if i didnt know before now i know

pumping777:
You ke?? I beg just liquidate 1% of your porfolio. I dey your side.

i think its looking more like 25%

oxfordkid:
@ all the best and see you soon

Yeah  man i need it! juggle career with MBA and family and i have to watch my investments like a hawk on  the NSE and keep up with nairaland

I guess i need all the luck in the world!

oxfordkid:
so you go dey shuttle between geneve and oxford?

I can pay instalmentally over two years so hopefully the collateral damage is bearable

oxfordkid:
so you go dey shuttle between geneve and oxford?

Hopefully starting in sept but i have to go and find £40,000 first

oxfordkid:
@roughcut
christ church dey do law!y?

Applied to do MBA part-time at Said Biz school

oxfordkid:
@ololufemi

do you think i should swap my 50k access bought @ 2day's value for uba and re enter access later?i still be your little just got furtunate to dey oxford !my grammar self no suppose bring me here just been lucky! you be my ololufe 2!!!

I beg which college you dey for Oxford Uni?

wanaj0:
@ all,

Roughcut, institutional investors that partook of the FBN and Access offer got money refunded to them. That include those that participated as prefential investor. If one person applied for 50% of the total offer what is the person looking for? How much will they now allot to the others? For institutional investors that do not bid for a takeover, you negotiate with the owners and you get a private placement. That's what Actis did with Diamond. They did not enter via PO. Even with Intercontinental, the funds entered via supplementary offer and not the intial offer. Inter went to meet the fund managers to invest. Look at even the IBTC/Stanbic deal. It was discussed. Not one that someone will submit application for 50% of the total shares on offer. That immediately skewed the allotment process. If you have that amount of money and intesret, why not eneter into discussion and negotiate.

It doesnt make any iota of  sense financially for any institutional investor that has billions of naira and deep pockets to invest to go via PO/IPO i dont think they would like to tie down their funds in return for a 'paltry' interest plus principal in case monies are returned.It is  even more ludicrous if they are now applying for 50% of what is on offer that does not constitute a serious bid to me_{i'm sure all the other institutional investors have not come to sight-see third mainland bridge!}

So any institutional investor that has applied for 50% of the equity on offer is  not yet  ready to play with the big boys catch my drift? i was not referring to the institutional investors that entered or applied via PO i dont even know them all those i referred to in my earlier post on this subject dont think they applied via IPO/PO. Those guys have serious money to play with so why would you want to waste time and tie down valuable resources applying for PO or IPO's?

Like you said the banks would have to come and look for them and not the other way round!

aktopgun:
@roughcut

and i take it u are not laughing. Neither am i man.
i put money in some of them and have resigned to my fate for now  

Smile ke i applied for  some units so my son can partake of the Dangote midas touch and now they will have to return money now

I stopped doing PO/IPO's after i joined this forum any PO and IPO and PP is for the little one  so there can be some inheritance when he is of age abi no bible talk am say a righteous or is it a wise man? leaves an inheritance for his children's children i suppose i will limit this to my children for the time being ha ha ha

But i participated fully in the Union Diagnostics  and CHAMS PP by the way though!

easimoni:
Intenegin is too expensive at a forward PE of 31.

@ All,
I'm glad you all are waking up to the issues I've always had with POs in Naija. It's not worth the trouble. Stay in the secondary market.

Honestly the whole thing with PO/IPO's is just becoming a huge and expensive  JOKE!

ngegy:
NEWS!!
Dangote allotment concluded

1,000 - 1,000 90,947 100.00%
1,001 - 2,000 71,299 60.00%
2,001 - 5,000 150,187 25.00%
5,001 - 10,000 125,796 17.20%
10,001 - 25,000 70,411 35.55%
25,001 - 50,000 29,961 12.35%
50,001 - 100,000 8,365 11.55%
100,001 - 250,000 3,045 10.25%
250,001 - 500,000 1,224 8.75%
500,001 - 1,000,000 409 8.25%
1,000,001 - 5,000,000 244 7.55%
5,000,001 - 20,000,000 40 5.75%
20,000,001 - 50,000,000 4 5.33%

Somebody who applied to buy 10k units will get just a bit more than someone who applied to buy 2K units defies all logic(but in the spirit  fairness and equity those who did the allotment dont have a choice!)

There's only one conclusion;when the shares are eventually listed they will so be illiquid that the price will go northwards with the speed of light unless the man himself will do another one-day Dangote spectacular ala NASCON! remember he still owns 75% of Dangote Flour Mills

He knows exactly what he's doing but then i suppose he didnt make his billions by playing the conventional game!

Shibrino:
@ all

This spring bank IPO, is it a good buy? I have some cash and I want to go for those shares that have 50% prospects in the nearest future. Your advice please

SpringMortgage a subsidiary of Spingbank has applied to be listed on the NSE they have just concluded a PP and once it is listed hopefully they will allow the price to go up a bit before going on TS in preparation for an IPO.
Be on the look-out!
If insurance stocks are among those that are going to do well in '08 so you can bet the quoted mortgage stocks(only one as at now) will do very well because the businesses are inter-twined

You heard it on nairaland!

rasputinn:
Wanaj0,you scored a bull's eye there and I agree with you.
@ Roughcut,regulations or no regulations,any institutional investors that have an eye on taking over a particular company will not carry a placard bearing"hostile take-over intended",they could start with having one or two seats on the board and  bide their time for an amendment of relevant portions of the guidelines while all the while carrying out massive under ground lobbying of the regulating authorities.Like Wanaj0 said,the Gaslink example is still fresh.

What you need to understand is not all these private equity firms and institutional investors are not interested in a seat(s) on the boards of these companies they just need to put their money in and when they have hit their target exit point sell their holding for a handsome profit and invest in another cash cow!

The only difference between these guys and us is that they have deep pockets than you can ever imagine and i can assure you they most likely are not interested in taking over any company they can  do that for a lot more profit in South Africa!

Do you have an idea how many private equity firms have dedicated funds just for investment in the African region?  Go and check out Rennaissance, Actis and the others

Chinese sovereign funds,  Singapore investment company(SIC)  to mention a few have generated billions in reserves and are looking for where to plough their budgeoning reserves. So you honestly believe china loves africa so much that they are willing to invest billions in the continent? dont think so! they  need gain  access to  the oil and mineral gas resources  to satisfy the resource-hungry middle-class back in their home country. Gazprom of Russia will soon become a major player in the nigerian gas industry(if the the government will play ball) to break the strangle-hold of the western companies in the oil and gas indusry

So what am i saying?As long as these equity funds have billions to invest they will always continue to look for  the next big thing and that happens to be Africa for now!

Not totally correct. For starters, STANBIC Nominees requested for about 50% of the total shares on offer!!!! Of course no way they will get that amount. Also, for First Bank, someone applied for over 1bn units!!!!!!!! No way First Bank will allow that, institutional investor or not. Don't forget that they are also wary of hostile takeover.

Even those that entered under preferential allotment are getting refund money. I have a group that did and they are using the refund money for Bank PHB.

While the institutional investors have deep pockets, comapnies are wary of them because of control. They want to have people on the board. Soon, they will push the promoters away. See what OandO did at Gaslink

A long as there is regulation in place to limit their equity holding in these companies these institutional investors both offshore and on-shore will continue to play active roles on the NSE. Actis, Sabre management, Fortis, Helios etc etc are all institutional and private equity investors in a lot of these banks and some of them have swapped their equity for a representation on the board of Directors. By the time FCMB completes its PO i think Sabre (they already have a seat on the board) with Helios they will be owning almost a third of the bank this is permissible as long as its not only one entity that's owning the 30% other wise that will be tantamount to a take-over!

Fortis is a big shareholder in bank PHB and they are from mainland europe and the CBN has just given them a contract to manage $245M of nigeria's external resreves with bank PHB

Actis has 19% equity already in Diamond

I think Novare has almost taken up 30% equity in the national fertilizer company these are just some  i can recollect off the cuff. The western capital markets are not going to be so fantastic this year guess where they will be diverting their funds? The banks and coys coming to the capital market every couple of years need the capital injection and there are willing subscribers with deep pockets who have learnt to put their money where their mouth is

wanaj0:
Your sister is not qualified for the dividend.

Yes Access is returning money. The branch she bought it from will not know. No one will confirm until the official announcement is made for the allottment. Reality is that the offer was hugely oversubscribed. There is a limit to how much of that they can accommodate so the rest will be returned. Most institutional investors are already pressurising them for return of their money.

Dont think ACCESS would be so stupid as not to accommodate the institutionsl investors so you can bet that most of the institutional investors would get their allotment if they are not already on the preferential allotment list not to do so would be committing a financial hirakiri!
The reality of investing on the NSE or any capital market for that matter is that is it the institutional investors that move the markets and they cause the most wahala!

All these banks dont need our money the institutional investors with their over-bloated wallets are what they need. can you imagine the pension commission with N700B in their war-chest being refused allotment by any company doing PO/IPO dont think so somehow and i would like to see a company that would do that. Why deal with so many angry shareholders when you can deal just a select few with fat wallets!

wanaj0:
Well, reserved 2m units at UBA Global Capital Markets.

Just got a contact in SKYE BANK also. They are one of the underwritters so I guess they are selling their portion (25% of the total offer) They are doing first come first served. The guy asked for an e-mail so as to make reservation for me.

Going to do a reservation for another 1m units while I go and source for funds.

Raised 1m already. Hope to get more before COB today. Will see if I can raise 12m by next week. If it is still open then, I can go for a KILL.

Already reserved mine and stock field marshall wanajo make sure you no gobble up everything o!

As soon as they list i will offload hopefully for a profit enter into the secondary market and ride that hopefully i can offload before they go on TS and i will be ready for Interswitch PP and the 'cycle'_{who mentioned cycle- in cycle-out on this forum?} should follow the same pattern¨

There is still cool money to be made on the NSE hopefully time is your friend

poke:
ebi like say sky bank own no geniue i don try them but their language no gree me understand. IF any one know how to link me up with UBA am also desprate like WANAJO

If you press correct button u go sabi their language

SavvyLanre:
Thanks - unfortunately, it cannot be done from UBA NY, and i no get leg for Naija,
@Pumping and windywendy - how you take dey do am from here?

Talking to UBA in naija or NY is like trying to get blood out of stone just call customer services at skyebank in nigeria and hopefully you are not too late!

For offshore n'landers you can use the following correspondent banks with skyebank to remit your funds just ask for the IBAN/SWIFT number for the account you need to transfer the funds into and make sure you send evidence of remittance to whoever you sent your app forms to

Deutsche Bank Trust Company
60 Wall Street
New York

Standard Chartered Bank
37 Gracechurch Street
London
United Kingdom

Deutsche Bank Trust Company
London
United Kingdom

Commerz Bank
Frankfurt
Germany

Citi Bank
New York

wanaj0:
The 2m unit is fully susbcribed now. It is being shared between 4 people. I hope to take minimum of 1m units out of that.

However, trying to get SANTRUST to see if I can get more.

Have one other link at UBA that I am trying to work on, if that clicks today then I should have some free float.

Abeg no be dia fault. Na so proper PP be. Na by invitation. Did you get the IV Why una wan gate crash enter the party?

Windywendy, still waiting for yoyr analysis as promised OOO

Analysis i think the only thing you need to start analysing now is how to figure out where the funds to purchase your goodies will be coming from
We fit do analysis later. Infact i go dey happy to join the analysts' panel
Buy now do analysis later

The pension commission(PenCom)  generated N700B in the last three years according to businessdayonline so your guess is as good as mine where a lot of the money is invested any hope of a sustained bear run may prove to be forlorn

Time is of the essence!

wanaj0:
UBA global market is the LEAD issuing house. They have already done 'preferential' allotment. Hence they are managing the number of units they can send out.

For SKYE and SANTRUT, not sure they have that many customers so there must be free float with them. Like you said, delay is dangerous. Not a customer of UBA but got someone to 'force' them to reserve 2m units. Contacted SANTRUST and will get a feedback tomorrow. If I can raise more cash, then will go for the jugular here. Buy Buy to MTN

These 2M units you reserved how many of those are you willing to float to fellow n'landers? _{i be great ife or is it great OAU?}

pumping777:
N10M ke?? Maybe at UBA Global Markets. My N2M in two tranches (madame) was well received at Skye

I don't know about N10M but the madam at skyebank told me  the number units i would like to buy is up to me. Can you imagine my officer at UBA was still insisting that the offer opened and closed yesterday so i just left her i no get time to waste. Time or is it speed? is of the essence

A beg make una tread softly softly for skyebank make water no come pass gari

pumping777:
You answered the question yourself. These are different industries. Every industry has it's own time of growth and this can be repeated. Banking will not grow at these rate forever. Things will cool.

Let us now look at it critically. Do you think the banks have had the highest rate of growth in Nigeria in the last couple of years It's all about the service industries. They are growing at an astronomical rate. I can name at least 5 non-banking companies that have outgrown the banks in terms of YOY PAT so what is this fuss about?? What does one expect after condensing all the banks in Nigeria to 25

Some banks are still struggling you know. It is not so easy to cook the books on top of nothing. UBA is paying dividents of N1.20 for every stock and Oceanic is paying N1.02. No be yam now.

I know you want to convince me to sell my UBA to you but I no go gree

Make you quick buy own before all these investors from Europe and Yankee go buy everything finish and list UBAN on NYSE

The market is not deep enough for the number securities quoted on the NSE and that is why you have inefficiencies that have allowed a lot of  nairalanders including moi_{and the silent readers God knows all of you!} to profit from these wild gyrations

A classic case in point refer to this link for some analysis on CUTIX i posted  on this thread sometime last year
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=31554.msg1779178#msg1779178

harrisoft:
Bros RoughCut, please are you sugesting that we buy springbank at currrent price.

No way! Springbank is a tainted bank i wont touch it with a ten-foot barge pole

They have  a subsidiary called Spring Mortgage which is set to list on the NSE so if you have a broker as soon as its listed make sure you get some!

You are right there!

Standard bank group of South Africa has a market capitalization of $18B that is about 25% of all the companies on NSE( market cap $79B) that is more than all the banks on the the NSE combined. MTN and Celtel(Parent company of V-mobile are listed on the JSE) are bigger than the most capitalized companies on the NSE all this for a  country with population less than 30 million.
These companies are not even listed on the NSE so there'e still robust room for growth at least for a few more years on the NSE.

PAT for NLNG Ltd the company that manages Nigeria's LNG project is in excess of N500B(Federal government has 49% equity)more than that of all banks on the NSE combined and its not even listed although that is a virtual monopoly!Imagine if the government decides to float just 10% of their holdings publicly!

So lets put things in perspective for a country the size of Nigeria we are still playing catch up!

I think the MD or is it former MD? of Springbank is currently a wanted person by the police!

Also Cross Rivers State government is considering taking up a sizeable equity stake in the company as they are developing a low-cost housing scheme for the workers so pretty cool i would say.

I would join you in grabbing da loot!

Abeg explain to me a bit more about this NHF loan. I have this NRN stuff from UBA NRN that's allowing us to build a property portfolio in Lagos island

Expect your post