₦airaland Forum

achorladey:
You don summarise their mode of operations and their ways for this your post.

One of their religious publications stated that their are two organisations in the world

1. Jehovah’s ORGANIZATION (WTBTS)

2. Satan's ORGANISATION ( all other organisations you can think)

Reality tells me for Jehovah’s organization to operate and carry out their daily tasks on earth they need permission, legal backing, licence, from Satan's organisation.

From those words it is evident that the antichrist, the apostate man of lawlessness, “the mystery of this lawlessness,” is Satan’s masterpiece in the form of an organization. It is an imitation of organized Christianity and so an opposer of it. As a replacement of true organized Christianity, it finds its expression in present-day Christendom, this name meaning the realm of Christianity. That is certainly a deceptive name, for Christendom is really the most powerful part of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, under the emperorship of Satan the Devil.......... Watchtower 1981

The one with the moniker MaxInDHouse in order to separate his religious organization as not part of Christendom was saying that they are not Christians, he went ahead to state that the name has been cursed by God and bastardized by other Christian denomination . That's why God change their name to Jehovah’s witnesses in 193[/b]1 . He will keep going from one thread to another [b]stating that other Christian denominations are not organized look at the above watchtower reference and see how they equally support that Satan equally have organizations of various kind.

They will say anything to look different and clean whereas reality say they are not different from every other religious denominations out there.

I wonder how Babylon the great start to mean all false religions. When the bible clearly says that, it means a great CITY. It is not even an empire, but a city.

You see, I don't have any problem with people having different understanding. I don't even think these understanding can perfectly be known by any human completely unless God conveys it to him supernaturally. But condemning others on the basis of these imperfect understanding is my problem with them. And these have led them to judging themselves as a result.

They once said that "Religion is an error and a racket". As of then, they didn't believe that Christianity is a religion. But now, they see themselves as a religion. Now tell me; have they not become an error and a racket?

They also criticized excommunication when it was done by the Catholic church and called it a pagan doctrine. But now, they are now using that pagan doctrine, even chosing not to soften the sentence of the pagan doctrine.

I keep asking, on what moral high ground could such a people condemn other religion? Do they not know that the same measure they measure out to others will be measured to them? Can't they just take it easy with others so as not to fall on top of their own judgment?

I don't understand it.

lagerwhenindoubt:
I shall (think it safe to) assume nearly everyone (Muslims, Christians, Atheists, Pagans, Traditionalists and Free-thinkers) is at least familiar with the 10 Commandments of Bible Literature (even if some may not know each one by instruction)

I shall summarize for the purpose of brevity; the 10 Commandments is a list of religious and moral imperatives that, (according to the Hebrew Bible) were given by God to the Israelite from Mount Sinai or Horeb. an inscription on two stone tablets which God wrote with his finger and gave to Moses. The 10 Commandments are recognized as a moral foundation in Judaism and Christianity.

The 10 Commandments declare the Lord, who brought the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt, to be God; prohibit having other gods before the Lord, and making or worshiping idols; threaten punishment for those who reject the Lord and promise love for those who love him; forbid misuse of the Lord's name; demand observance of the Sabbath and honoring one's parents; prohibit killing, adultery, theft, false testimony, and coveting of one's neighbor's goods.

That said, Did God write the 10 Commandments and why would he need to? we are clearly told that the Fallen Man (Adam and Eve) possessed the Knowledge of Good and Evil (Conscience or Still Small Voice) and basically had the framework for a guiding sense of Morality. Why did God not give them such Laws? Must Morality be derived from God? is the responsibility to determine what is right and wrong a function of God's Divine Law? are our actions Morally Right or Wrong because God says so? Do we need a Law-Maker and a Law-Giver to know what is Morally Wrong or Right.

When I look at similar 10 commandments of Allah, it still bears the same obviously simple concepts of Morality that even non-Muslims and non-Christians can agree with.

Do we need God to tell us what is Morally Right and Wrong? in such Strict Terms?

Thank you for your time

We always need someone to set laws for all. Think of it this way; would you think that it is pointless for Govt to set laws in a country? I mean, wouldn't everyone know what is right?

Morality is objective, and not everyone sees eye to eye on what is morally ok. We need God to tell us what is right. There should be that Supreme Authority to make a moral decision for all.

dorox:
Bringing a child into the world without the ability to properly care the child is an act of cruelty. If the time is not right then don't bring a child to surfer for your failure.

You tried to send me an email, right?

Templee333:
my annointing became obvious after 2018(march) memorial,I was surely going to partake in 2019,but before then ...

What happened?

Altho the so called anointing is another biblical misunderstanding by the GB. If you're a true christian, you are anointed and in line to partake of the emblem.

achorladey:
That's speaking from both side of their mouth for me. They don't consider themselves mainstream religion yet they want to have all the BENEFITS mainstream religion gets You stated others including christendom, are Jehovah’s witnesses not part of Christendom? Thy will have to redefine the word christendom in order to separate their religious organization. You and I know what christendom mean. Another case of speaking from both side of their mouth.




Many can analyse and dissect their beliefs. They know the length, breadth and height of their beliefs. To amuse you, turning down a watchtower publication given to you by one of their members is enough to be classified as GOATS to be destroyed




At least you know they do go back and forth numerous times over their doctrines. The latest they call new light on John 5:28,29 is a testament to that. Go online and see how they have analysed their latest discovery.





The reason for your why is that their governing body continue to make mistakes and err in organization doctrines and directions and it is a sorry case members are told to obey even when whatever they do and say or direct does not make sense


The latest gb update highlighted what happened in Norway, and this sentence stuck out to me:

“We received a letter that said Jehovah’s Witnesses would no longer receive certain state benefits that are provided to ALL registered religions”

I thought they are different from others so they get state benefits from Satan's agent

My brother the thing tire me o. Wetin de want do with state bonus for religion when they say they are different? They are being supported by the wild beast of this world. It is not strange anyway as they also prostituted themselves with the UN in secret for about 10years before they were exposed. What I'm learning about this GB guys, especially after this UN case is that they do unimaginable things in secret and present a different front in public.

Do you know the one that surprise me? They will still be judging other churches and sentencing them to eternal destruction when they are also guilty of the same crime. They tire me seriously.

MaxInDHouse:
YES! They were bought as first fruit of God's Kingdom so they go with Christ everywhere he goes as the spiritual Jews.

So we who are of the "other sheep" fold {John 10:16} will grab their skirt for our own salvation {Zechariah 8:23} God has given them the Kingdom {Luke 12:32} therefore whoever fails to recognize them is on his own! Matthew 25:34-46

Thanks for confirmation.

Templee333:
Hi there you all followers of this thread. i've been having some difficulties in typing. That's why i've not been posting here recently. But the story is still long. I'll have to tell u in due time how i became an annointed brother in 2018 and resolved in my hrt to take part in the memorial emblem; I'm yet to tell how i moved to Bayelsa state to serve where the need is greater; I'll tell how i spent 5 days and nights roaming in the streets of Enugu state without food or sheler,in an effort to spread the goodnews. If i'm to mention all the cruelties i went through in the hands of "brothers and sister",then this thread will lengthen to thousand. just continue reading...

Wow, seriously? You were anointed and ate that emblem?

achorladey:
In this particular example you gave they didn't even answer the question. They were talking about those who DRIFT/FADE AWAY and those who STOP PREACHING. Instead of talking about those who choose to DISASSOCIATE

They know those who drift or fade away are very different from those who used to belong to their religion.

Question for MaxInDHouse in that FAQS the organization you belong use the words "THEIR RELIGION".

Do you MaxInDHouse agree the religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is among the over 41000 religious groups teaching conflicting and contradictions about who God is?

A. Yes

B. NO

C. Keep mute and run away from my post ;

Jehovah's witnesses do not consider themselves as part of any mainstream religion. They don't class themselves amongst Christendom. They view their religion as the only true Christianity. Others, including Christendom is false and will be destroyed. They don't see themselves as among protestantism.

But their beliefs is often misunderstood by majority of their followers. For example, JWs teachings when painstakenly analysed shows that they believe that millions of members of other religions in this our time can also be resurrected to their 1000 year reign of Christ.

When analysed, even apostates could be among the "unrighteous" that would also be resurrected. Also that even those who had heard God's word in the past can also be among the unrighteous of John 5:28,29.

Most of their members do not know this. Their Gov Body don't seem to make that point stand out. I don't know why.

Janosky:
Is Romans 6:1-7 say anything about "spiritual" death?"

No.

Based on faulty logic,Is God going to resurrect,then judge & punish Adam again when Genesis 3:19 & Romans 6:7 is in your Bible?
This Sand typing GIBBERISH.

This guy sef. Did you even read the bible portion? See what your publication says:

" is different with the spirit-begotten brothers of Jesus Christ. Why? Because, as the apostle Paul explains:

“Do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that, just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also should likewise walk in a newness of life. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection; because we know that our old personality was impaled with him, that our sinful body might be made inactive, that we should no longer go on being slaves to sin. For he who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”​—Rom. 6:3-7.

These, then, have figuratively “died.” After they have the benefits of Christ’s sacrificial death for their sins applied to them, they are declared or ‘counted’ righteous. (Rom. 5:1, 18; 8:30) Their fleshly bodies, with their old personalities, are counted as impaled with Christ. They are then spiritually begotten by God, giving them hope of life in the spirit. (John 3:5- "

Is this clear? You will argue it.

Secondly, did you notice " counted righteous" and "spiritually begotten"?. It means that only these members of 144000 are considered sons of God. The benefit of the ransom is applied to them even now. But other witnesses are much like persons without sonship effect of the ransom applied to them. They will only get that benefit of the ransom after 1000 years as the JW understand Rev 20;5.

That is also why only them eat the emblem because they are the only sons of God on earth.

Learn to understand a comment and provide constructive criticism. I don't even know if you understand the teaching of the WT.

It appears you newly learned the meaning of gibberish. Is this how you respond when you meet people at the doors?

Janosky:
A New Heaven and a New Earth
21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”


According to your mumu GIBBERISH, Revelation 21:1-5 is not true because by your faulty logic there is no New heaven and new earth, until after 1000 years has ended.
Therefore,no one "sitting on thrones for judgement." Else,who are the ones sitting on thrones going to judge?

3rd point, by your faulty logic, there is no resurrection because God himself will not fulfill verses 3 -5 or resurrect anyone.
Oga wey dey cheerry pick only revelation 20:5 is a learner forming woke.
TUEH!

This GIBBERISH emanating from your delusion is not JWs teaching.
Oga, you are very deluded and LYING.
Screenshot evidence confirmed that.
Pinkylovely alias Sand.

It's really had to get your logic bros. I just wish someone could explain what this guy is talking about. Did you really understand my point?

The Witnesses interpretation of Rev 20;5 is inconsistent. That too has led to other errors in their understanding. Let's see from verse 4 in the NWT.

"And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection."

The watchtower sees the "life" in that verse 5 to mean perfection, but the "life" in verse 4 as physical resurrection. They say that those in verse 4 are those of the 144000 who are in the grave. They will be resurrected as the verse 4 says, but now when they come to verse 5, they now said that "come to life" their means 'become perfect'. This interpretation then made them to say that billions that will be on earth will only be perfect after the 1000 year reign of Christ. That's how they see that Rev 20:5.

However, notice that verse 5 is a continuation of the line of reasoning in verse 4.

Following their logic, it will be wrong then, to say that the "rest of the dead did not come to life" mentioned in verse 5 means that they did not resurrect. Why?

Because when you use the word "rest of" you are linking the second group to the first. In other words, if the first group coming to life means literal resurrection, then the rest that didn't come to life will mean that they were not resurrected. Simple.

Eg. There are groups A, B, C. If you say that "Group A came to the park, but the rest of the group did not come to the park". You cannot give the word " park" different meaning. Giving it one meaning when it refers to group A and another meaning when it talks about the other groups. Right?

If you mean that Group A literally came to the park, then it will mean that group B, and C did not literally come to the park. Otherwise, you're not being consistent.

2. Another inconsistency in the doctrine is that they see the dead at verse 4 as literally dead, but the dead in verse 5 as spiritually dead despite the linking phrase "rest of the".

It is this doctrine that additionally contributed to their thinking that Christs ransom sacrifice that clears one of sin did not apply to any other person except the 144000. In other words, only 144000 are sons of God. Other JWs are not sons of God.

One error leads to another...

JWs understanding of Rom 6:7 has led to more problems for their doctrine. As a saying goes... "One theological error leads to another". I do respect churches and their right to their own understanding. We all grow in learning.

The JW say that since Rom 6:7 says that he who has died has been acquitted or freed from his sin, it means that when that one gets resurrected, God cannot judge him based on his past life. As such, John 5:28,29 can't be understood to mean that these persons will be judged based on their past life before resurrection. This has also lead them to another error that one of the scrolls mentioned at Rev 20:12-13 must be a teaching manual to instruct the resurrected persons during Christs 1000 year reign, so as to furnish God with another basis to judge people. There are still other scriptures that has been affected by this understanding.

One error leads to another.

First ROM 6:7 is not even contextually talking about physical death, but spiritual death. If you die to your former way of life, your sins has been acquitted, simple. They are rather inputting a secondary meaning to this scripture. Even if we were to look at it secondarily, will it rather not mean that when one dies eternally, he has fully paid for his sins? Yes because the wages of sin is death, but this death is obviously an eternal death, not a temporary death. When one dies, without any hope of resurrection, that is the full pay for his sins. Not when he dies and had to be resurrected for judgment. He has not fully paid for his sins. If after judgment, he is found guilty, he is killed eternally. That is his wages.

They have no birthdays, don't believe in miracles, holy spirit, dresses like a cult, don't celebrate Christmas and refuse blood transfusion.
Are Jehovah witnesses christians? Or they're another religion?

They believe in holy spirit. But they say it is not a person. Their argument make sense on that.

Don't celebrate Christmas. Well, there is a good argument on that, but I won't be judgmental on that point.

Birthdays. I don't accept their point on this. It is a weak argument.

Blood transfusion ban. Pure nonsense argument used in support of such a serious life decision. They should go back to the bible and restudy that subject. They can do better than what they are teaching now.

Dress like cult. How? They are most decently dressed christians I've ever seen. Apart from bad eggs among them who are almost naked, as a group they are relatively well dressed. You can't compare them with any other church on that. Mormons are second. Of course God's kingdom is not about dress.

They are Christians. As a group are they true Christians? Let God be the judge on that day. But as individuals, they try to be morally upright and as such, some can be saved there. Don't make the mistake of judging individuals based on church. Inasmuch as they have faith in Christ and accept his basic principles, don't judge.

The JW are good in judging people based on doctrines. That's how they understand their bible. But it is very wrong to judge people based on doctrine. unless you have a supernatural revelation of that doctrine, don't think that your understanding of a scripture is perfect. You may be wrong even when it sounds so logical. Some understanding are obviously left for human intellect to decode, but not all. Judging people based on their own bible understanding, hmmm. I will say it is best to be open minded, but leave that judgment for God.

Jws are christians with their own distinct Understanding of scripture. Contrary to what they believe, God can still accept other people with a different bible understanding. No one group has monopoly over truth.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ stick to your Jesus while we stick to (y)our GOVERNING BODY, you're not on the same page with us!

Like!

OLAADEGBU:
Richard Ugwochi got delivered from 12 years of madness



Copied.

Has there been any independent assessment of these miracles?

MaxInDHouse:
One thing i've discovered in faithless people is the way they come up with different races against God's organization but the truth will always prevail.
Whoever wants blood transfusion we won't stop him or her but our own God says it's not good for our health! Act 15:28-29

While I agree that God is against eating blood, it however, didn't comment on blood transfusion. Don't you think since the bible is silent, that issue should be left for conscience? I mean the bible principle you quoted didn't comment on blood transfusion. That command is only limiting dietary eating of blood, right?

Janosky:
Oga, stop throwing tantrums.
Who told you that Criminal is in heaven?
Has Jesus Christ fulfilled John 5:28 & Acts 24:15?

In other words,has Jesus Christ resurrected the dead as promised @John 5:28 & Acts 24:15?

Omo, that Criminal executed alongside Jesus,he has no place in heaven.

Who said he is in heaven? Sorry, discussing with you will be very difficult.

Janosky:
You said.
"That guy .....he himself has his own understanding of the meaning of a soul."

I explained that @ Matthew 10:28 & Mark 3:4, the soul is Greek lexicon 5590, meaning a living person.

Oga, no vex.

Hmm even when my comment was to support your doctrine, you can't even comprehend that. How can I then discuss with you?

MaxInDHouse:
Obviously you just want to argue so there's no need for further arguments just know that if you're not one of the students under the supervision of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses you are not worshiping our God. Period!

Obviously you just want to argue so there's no need for further arguments just know that if you're not one of Jesus disciples under the supervision of Jesus the head of the church, you are not worshiping our God. Period!

Janosky:
Matthew 24:36-39, did God judge Noah and his Sons individually? According to Jesus Christ, did Jehovah God save ONLY his servants?

Isaiah 43:10 (ASV) ,Acts 3:13 & Acts 15:14-17, did you notice that Jehovah's servants bear God's name?

Hmmm. Sorry your logic is hard to figure out. I wonder if the comment is meant for the post your quoted.

Janosky:
John 5:28-29 = Acts 24:15, resurrection of life for faithful obedient Servants of Jehovah throughout the millennium reign of king Jesus Christ after passing the final test from Satan released from the abyss.
Resurrection of judgement for wilful disobedient ones falling prey to Satan after his release from the abyss.


Acts 2:41-47 & John 20:17,organized for Jehovah's worship.
Not Organization of 3 deities worshippers.


The resurrection of Revelation 20:13 same as resurrection of John 5:28-29 & Acts 24:15.
The millennium reign of Jesus Christ is a period of judgement (to bring mankind to perfection) leading to the final test of Jehovah's servants after Satan's release from abyss.
John 5:28- individuals faithful obedience and passing the final test of Satan is a resurrection of life everlasting.
John 5:29 this is a resurrection of judgement for disobedient individuals failure to attain perfection and succumb to Satan's for testing.

The millennium reign of king Christ would lead mankind to perfection (replace what Adam lost).

I don't understand. Your comments are not articulated. Besides this was meant for someone else.

Janosky:
Greek lexicon 5590 @ Matthew 10:28 & Mark 3:4 has the same meaning.
Man can kill a soul on the Sabbath or save a soul,says Jesus Christ.
Soul is life/living person (living soul).
The rich fool gained the world & forfeited his soul (loss of life/dead) without prospect of resurrection.
Matthew 10:28, God can resurrect a soul killed by his fellow man on Sabbath, but nobody can resurrect any soul (life or living person) destroyed by God's judgement.

Who resurrected Adam? Who resurrected the rebellious sons of korah ? Who resurrected the wife of Lot or people of Sodom Gomorrah?

God rendered judgement on there case.
Their case closed. No resurrection for them.

The Bible translators deliberately interchange the use of Soul /life to deceptively stick to the Greek philosophy of immortal soul.

Shalom.

I don't understand. Is that meant for me? Didn you read my comment well?

MaxInDHouse:
There are lots of JWs out there practicing other religions but deep in their hearts they're with the one and only channel so they will continue to argue here and there until they meet JWs.
But even if you're born in the midst of JWs but believe that there are other channels it simply means you're not one of us!
So the thief is a Jew who believe in the Christ but after meeting the Christ he never hesitate to grasp the opportunity of confessing himself as one of Christ's subjects despite his past lifestyle.

You don't become a JWs unless you become baptize in the faith. That's not even the point. The point is, the evil man got saved without even being baptized. The basic thing needed is faith in Jesus. With that, Jesus can grant you access to that kingdom without answering any query from anyone.

The reason for the point is this; leave the issue if salvation to Jesus, God appointed judge because you may not know for sure whom he will pick as saved.

Check the answer to the question about salvation from your website.

Don't deceive yourself! If they're organized to do God's will there won't be any wars!

What do you understand from the word "organization"?

Whatever you hear from me is JW's teaching (updated) so our light is ever getting brighter!Proverbs 4:18
As for the highlighted resurrection is only for two categories of people:
Righteous ~ those who spent all their lives in pure worship so God has declared them RIGHTEOUS.
Unrighteous ~ those who only lived by conscience without God's laws {Romans 2:14-15} though they don't know God's laws but they soberly subjected themselves to their God's given conscience so they remain unrighteous from God's standpoint but they will be remembered for their virtues. As for those that choose to be wicked they will never see resurrection {Psalms 9:17} they are gone for good.

After the resurrection the Christians will now teach all those that lived by conscience what Christ taught us we will all continue putting on Christ's personality for one thousand years.
From God's standpoint all the people living on planet earth whether Christian or none Christian are like dead because some former unbelievers who lived by conscience will insist on living without Christ's teachings and because it's based on Christ's sacrifice that they were released from the grave, God will allow such a person to live for just 100 years so if after living with us for 100 years without growing older he still refuse to believe in Jesus' sacrifice as what caused his release from the grave he will have to die again and now his blood will be upon his own head because he will die as a youth {Isaiah 65:20} then Satan will be released to test all survivors after 1,000 years! Revelations 20:5-6

After the 1,000 years we will all have become perfect like Adam and Eve so Satan will be released to test all survivors. That is the time each person will be judged based on what they choose to be after they've become perfect. Revelations 20:13

You don't know what JWs teach on this subject. Humbly make research.

MaxInDHouse:
Naaaaaaaaaaaaa the error of God's people totally differs from that of those who don't know His standard at all. Note that those who don't have God's laws do so many things that God will not permit his own people to do. So if His own people err it's based on a very high standard not just the common human rules.


YES!

Do you think Jesus sanctioned the errors of the Jewish religious leaders of his day since Jews were then God's people?

I don't understand what you mean here!

2cor 11:5. Never heard of that before?

Satan capitalize on man's imperfection to establish false religions {Matthew 13:25} so it's not God's fault! Deuteronomy 32:5

No none Jews perform a single miracle they only received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues as sign of approval from God.

Hmmm, speaking in tongues is miracle bros. Prophesying is also miracle. 1cor 14

Revelations was the last message Jesus passed so John decided to write his own gospel account which was meant to correct one error! John 21:20-23

The rest were letters from the Apostle who had Jesus last!

Was the book written by John inspired by God?

Courz:
At the bolded, No that's not what JWs teach. From the screenshot below directly from their website, Only Jehovah's witnesses will survive Armaggedon and be saved. You may hear some JWs tell you otherwise but those ones are actually disagreeing with the approved doctrine from Watchtower above which is not allowed in the Cult. You can't disagree with Watchtower.

When discussing with JWs, it is either their way or the highway. They are not people you can sit down and discuss Bible with the hope of interchanging opinions. Don't expect a JW to accept your opinion even if you are right and can prove it with the Bible. It never happens. In case you don't know, Watchtower is Supreme to JWs and whatever they are taught stands even if it is obviously wrong and cannot be found in the Bible. The earlier you understand this, the better while you are chatting with this fellow.

Thanks for the screenshot. Generally that is what they believe about those that will survive Armageddon, but that article is not technically covering all that will be saved as JW believe.

It didn't define who is meant by the word "Jehovah's witnesses". And it also didn't talk about all who die now before the end of the world. It also didn't talk about those who lived before the existence of modern JWs. So it refers to the end of the world destruction specifically.

The guy doesn't know all the beliefs of witnesses. He is trying but there is room for progress.

MaxInDHouse:
God is not disturbed with the errors of His chosen ones {Psalms 103:12-14} what matters is their willingness to make amendments but as for anyone outside God's organization there's nothing for them because God will never ever use more than one channel!

Ok I think you agree, you only say that He accepts only the error of His chosen ones. It's ok. Who His chosen ones are differ from person to person. However, another will say that error is error. Well done.

Jesus was talking about groups led by false prophets {Matthew 7:15} the teachings of the false prophets will not yield positive result in the midst of their followers! Matthew 7:16-18

Almost similar. So the mention is about their leader who is a false prophet.

Naaaaaaaaaaaaa such can't happen in true Christianity it's either members obey the Body appointed by Jesus to lead them {Hebrews 13:7} or those who aren't ready to obey take their leave! 1John 2:19

Do the superfine apostles always obey?

God's own organization is headed by a united BODY of elders so it's false religions that could be led by disunited false prophets! Luke 12:23

Ok, this is also an agreement.

True Christianity doesn't give room for diversity in doctrines {1Corinthians 1:10} diversity in doctrines is of the devil!

And error is of God, right?

God kept His promise until Jesus Christ came but after they rejected the Christ God condemned that nation for good! Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38

Thanks for the agreement.

It's the presence of Jewish disciples of Christ that such things occur after their death there's nothing like that anymore!

So you agree that others not the Jews also had the miraculous gift. You do well.

Well Jesus' statement there simply means the end of divine communication so everyone only need to study the Bible, miracles ended!

So 1john, 2john, 3john and book of John were not divinely inspired?

MaxInDHouse:
It's the case of that the thief that supposed to help you. All we needed is to welcome Jesus' arrangement. That guy exercised great faith because himself and the so called Christ are suffering the same fate yet he reasoned that everything written in God's word about the Christ is fulfilling in this man's life including the prophecy that the Christ will be killed alongside criminals {Isaiah 53:12} that's why he obediently, humbly and faithfully acknowledged Jesus as King. Jesus has no option than to welcome him because all what God required from imperfect humans is humility {Zephaniah 2:2-3} and that thief did just so. You too can do the same by considering the prophecy about Jesus' brothers who are spiritual Jews {Zechariah 8:23} but if you're contemplating on the evil that's befalling them due to the handiworks of faithless people then don't compare yourself with that thief. He had every reason to doubt Jesus who can't save himself!

Good. Wonderful. So we can now see that someone who was not baptized made it to the kingdom. In other words, someone who is not a JW, if we use the JW understanding, made it to God's kingdom. Isn't that revealing?

It must be done in an ORGANIZED manner not just randomly so only JWs are doing that.

Alright your concern is organization. I get it. Well, many churches today are organized.

Don't hesitate to talk because whatever you're hearing now is your chance of knowing the TRUTH otherwise please ignore me

My oga. I am local.

Individual judgment will come after Christ's 1,000 years by that time all those living on this planet would have become perfect so it will be what each person turns out to be that will determine their judgment {Revelations 20:13} but for now it's humility and righteousness that God is using {Zephaniah 2:2-3} that humility means to submit to the imperfect Governing Body chosen to gather Jesus' earthly subjects in preparation of his coming kingdom! Matthew 24:45

So whoever feels like picking at their mistakes thinking Jesus will consider his/her self righteousness is deceiving himself! Matthew 25:41-46

You said individual judgment will come after Christs thousand year reign. Is that your understanding or the teaching of JWs?

I agree with this. That's the meaning of that Rev 20;13 you quoted. Fantastic!. After Christ reign, not during. But that's not what JWs teach.

It's good to know that you do your bible study and differ with JW doctrine in some areas. That makes you sincere if you ask me.

Although it is on the "would have become perfect" aspect that I don't know how you arrived at that. If the judgment will be after the thousand year reign, how will all be perfect from the grave?

MaxInDHouse:
If you mean from an ORGANIZED PEOPLE, YES!
The Christian congregation replaced Israel and Jehovah's Witnesses organization replaced the churches of Christendom today. So God never used two groups at any time!

You didn't get my point. We have established that humans err in trying to understand the bible. What I'm asking if it is reasonable to think that the correct understanding will always issue from one particular group of bible students.

There are bible scholars in different parts of the world. Since we are all fallible in understanding what the bible says, can we now say that the correct understanding of the bible will always come from one source that is also in itself fallible? Do you not see a possibility of Group A being right in one teaching and Group B being wrong, or Group A being wrong while Group B being right? Or even Group A and B being all wrong? Or even One Scholar being right while either Group being wrong?

Of course Jesus was talking about a group that is why he prayed to his father for them to have the same line of {John 17:22} that can't be real if the truth can come from different groups.

That's another scripture you refer to there. Iam discussing Matt 7 that you quoted earlier.

If we say that Jesus meant a group or a religion/denomination will it not mean that all in that group are all prophets? So you should look out for a group composed of prophesying prophets, of which all of them are fake? I can't recall any denomination that all members are prophets. If there is, then from your interpretation, it will mean that other churches that are not composed of all prophets are not being meant by Jesus words. That doesn't make sense, does it?

Seriously, Jesus meant false prophets, not any denomination.

True, if a false prophet is a GO of a church, then it's members are in danger. But a GO might be a true prophet but one or two members are false prophets. That's possible too. The GO won't be false because some in the church are false,right?

But of course, even if the reference was to a false denomination, it doesn't mean that all denominations are all false. Does it?

Jesus told us that his own group will always have the same line of thought {John 17:22} but as for divisive individuals they will be scattered spiritually speaking {Luke 11:23} meaning they cannot think alike hence when politics and racism calls they will start killing themselves! Revelations 6:3-4

Why are you adding what the verse didn't say. Jesus was praying for them to be one. Of course they are one, but it didn't mean that they never argued, that they never quarrelled, that none ever left Christianity for something else from first century till date. Is that true? They were not always thinking one thing. This should be easy for you to understand na bros.

We have Judas Iscariot, we have Hemeneaus and Phylectus, and Diotrephes, false apostles in Corinth etc. They will not all think one thing always.

God chose Israel but when the Northern ten tribes began worshiping idols God rejected them and concentrated on the two Southern tribes, the north is called Samaritans while the south is called Jews. Jesus later confirmed that the true God has abandoned Samaritans and their form of worship! John 4:22

If your meaning of reject is that God became angry with them, sent them on exile, allowed them to be defeated by their enemies, then I agree. We all know that that didn't mean that God rejected them, rather it was to discipline them to make amends. If they changed, he rescues them. Is that what you mean by reject? If so, I agree.

But that's not what I mean. I mean total rejection as His people and never ever taken them back as His people. Did God ever do that? Was it not till Jesus came and they nailed him that the Jews as a tribe were totally rejected as God's people in favor of the Israel of God?

Do you agree? I think your comment below mean you agree.

God never gave supernatural GIFTS to anyone outside Israel that's why Jesus said that such gifts are for only Israelites {Matthew 15:24} so the gifts continued for some times after Jesus in other for the Israelites to RECOGNIZE the one and only group practicing pure worship in the first century since there were several groups claiming worshipers of the God of Abraham. But after Christianity has been firmly established all such supernatural gifts ceased! 1Corinthians 13:8-10

Now it's only LOVE that will serve as evidence of pure worship {1Corinthians 13:13} as for supernatural gifts it has ended in the first century after Jesus declared saying NO ADDITION NO SUBTRACTION! Revelations 22:18-19
Thanks!

You said God didn't give the supernatural gift to anyone outside Israel. Perhaps you mean that when the supernatural gift was given during pentecost, it was only the Jews and perhaps also circumcised gentiles that received the gift. I don't want to believe that you mean to say that it was only the Jews that had such miraculous power all throughout the first century. That's not what you mean right?

There are some that believe that the power ceased back then. They reach their conclusion through deduction. The bible didnt say that that power will cease in the first century. Even if it ended, assuming the deduction were correct, we live in the last days where the prophecy of Joel, quoted by Peter, should have another fulfillment. It will now be a matter of debate to conclude if that fulfillment is happening now or it will happen in the future. But since we are almost at the end of this world, one will think that it is plausible that this prophecy should be fulfilling now.

About Rev 22:18-19, I want to believe you are just joking because you and I know that that's not what that scripture mean, right?

MaxInDHouse:
Individual judgment is not now!

The first thing is to be obedient to Jesus' born again brothers and readiness to work with them {Matthew 25:34-40} whoever is no one of Jehovah's Witnesses cannot be saved!

I wonder where you got that from. Perhaps that's your understanding. The witnesses do not teach that if you're not a JW, you won't be saved. As far as I know, they don't know that for sure. They live the judgment for Jesus.

I assume that's your own belief. But it's good to be let Jesus make that decision. Seriously, you can't know for sure what he will decide. Remember that criminal at his right hand, who knows that even though he is not baptized, nor follow Jesus, he was saved. That should humble us to let the God appointed judge do his work.

The only thing that can make you escape the coming destruction is when you are seriously studying with JWs and making progress that's the only way your name can enter God's memory book! Malachi 3:16

That's not what that scripture says. Any christian can do what that Malachi says, not minding his denomination. Right?

Individual judgment will come after Christ's 1,000 years by that time all those living on this planet would have become perfect so it will be what each person turns out to be that will determine their judgment {Revelations 20:13} but for now it's humility and righteousness that God is using {Zephaniah 2:2-3} that humility means to submit to the imperfect Governing Body chosen to gather Jesus' earthly subjects in preparation of his coming kingdom! Matthew 24:45

So whoever feels like picking at their mistakes thinking Jesus will consider his/her self righteousness is deceiving himself! Matthew 25:41-46

There lots of wrong statements made here. Would you want to talk about it?

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ only JWs are practicing pure worship!

That's ok. That's how you see it. Another person here can say the same of his own church or religion.

Keep up your morality no matter where you are. When the day of reckoning comes, we shall know for sure. I believe God will judge us individually.

MaxInDHouse:
All creatures are souls based on how related they are to others but the character is what God values!
You can destroy a person's body giving him no chance to continue living but you can't erase the character from God's memory! Matthew 10:28
So while all of us are growing old and expiring many are forgotten to rotten in their graves {Psalms 9:17} while some are safely kept in God's memory book for a chance to live again! Job 14:13-15

Character is more important in the eyes of God, not just the flesh. True. I agree. But the use of soul in the bible seems to be what the guy is talking about. As you say, all creatures are souls. That is the aspect he needs. If you say character is soul, then I don't know if that is what JWs teach. Maybe that's your understanding.

Are we on the same page?

MaxInDHouse:
YES!

Right!


Correct!

Thanks for being open minded.

I disagree with you on this point!
All the religious groups on this planet are roving about searching for God in whatever way they know but then God's word says there are certain things that will help sincere individual to KNOW those who are truly worshiping God out of all these religions.
God said during the end time when everyone is busy on how to make a living we will notice some people always discussing with their neighbours and the main focus of their discussion will be (1) God's name (2) righteousness of God {Malachi 3:16} God's word goes further saying the end result of this movement will help many to distinguish between true worshipers and fake! Malachi 3:18
So despite the fact that all were searching for God it's evident that the group visiting people in their homes to discuss about the name of the most high God {John 17:6,26} are the only group doing God's will {Matthew 7:21} that's why they're able to fulfill what is written in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

Sorry you seem to miss the point of my comment. Maybe I didn't word it so well. What I mean is, since no one can say for sure what understanding is not fallible, unless he is supernaturally directed, both your scholars and other scholars are striving to understand the bible. Since we all can't claim infallibility in understanding this divine word, will it not be reasonable to admit that we may be wrong in this and others are right or we may be right in this while another is wrong or that it is even possible that both of us are wrong? Will it be reasonable to think that which ever truth that will ever exist must ALWAYS come from a particular group of men?

What do you think?

Jesus has settled this point with the his words found @ Matthew 7:16-18 the only group of people meeting up with the expectations as prophesied in God's word has the pure worship while all others are FAKE!

True fake prophets are real. We need to be careful about such ones. In fact that is why I have a thread to know if there is any prophet that has a reputation of true prophecies because while the Devil can thrive in miracles, he can't always foretell the future accurately. In fact God used that as a challenge to false gods in Isaiah.

Jesus was not there talking about a group, but specifically the prophets and perhaps false miracle workers. Of course by saying that, Jesus doesn't mean that there are no true prophets. No. He was in fact talking about fake ones.

If they do not there's no reason meeting together since it's evident that they're not achieving anything worthwhile. Revelations 3:16

No. Divisive individuals will always come. Both during when Jesus was with his apostles, or when the apostles formed churches, there were occasions of argument, disagreement, disunity. Christ is dealing with humans, he knows that such divisions will manifest one way or another. That's why he gave the command so that they will at least make effort. Not everyone will obey the command to be united in thought or doctrine.

I totally disagree with this!

First of all it's pure worship that makes Israel God's people whatever makes them worship other gods they're no longer His people {Deuteronomy 32:5} God is the creator of all flesh so the only reason why He's related to them is pure worship in the absence of that they're no longer His people! Exodus 19:5

I don't think you understand me. The point I was making is about division in Israel. Did all tribes or individuals in Israel always agree on one thing? For example did the Southern tribe and Northern tribe always agree? Were the Israelites always doing what God wanted them to do? Did God reject them all those times and chose another nation?

Do you understand me now?

As for supernatural gifts Jesus made it clear that there are two things we need to take note regarding God's Holy Spirit:
GIFT and FRUIT!

Just like a tree God's Holy Spirit is supernatural just like demonic powers so demons can also perform miracles that's why Jesus warned us not to be carried away with such GIFTS! Matthew 7:21-23

A tree could be huge , tall and thick, sweet smell, it's leaves may serve as a shade under the hot Sun or medicinal, it's stem may be good for timber supplies so Jesus never asked us to trust in their GIFTS but their FRUIT:

The fruit must be exactly the same fruit that the first century Jewish disciples produced back then. A mango tree will always produce mango so instead of blurring our senses with the gifts which could be found in some other trees Jesus said:

"By their FRUITS you will know" Matthew 7:16

Don't be deceived Sir there are supernatural GIFTS in so many religions otherwise people will not stick to those religions if they're not seeing anything supernatural but then only the true religion will continue to bear the fruitage of FAITH!

Good point. Nice one. I have always been of the point that we should be careful of fake people. We don't have to be too believing otherwise we are gone.

We however should not go to the other extreme of saying that no true prophet exists. I mean while saying the above, we won't think that Jesus was saying that there are no true miracles or prophets. We know that after he died and went to heaven, he poured out a spirit that made people to perform miracles and prophesied. His warning about fakes won't mean that we shouldn't accept the miracle that came after Jesus went to heaven. In fact those miracles were proves that God no longer approves Judaism but has chosen Christianity. So that was unmistakable stamp of God's approval. But the disciples back then still manifested the christian FRUITAGE while still performing miracles. So while talking about fruitage, know that those back then manifested these fruits and still performed miracles. But there are fakes for sure.

It is hard to know which power is behind a miracle, but one thing is sure, what does that miracle worker teach? What is his conduct? For me, I recommend checking if he is a prophet to see if his prophecies always come true. To me that will make a lot of sense.