₦airaland Forum

Well, issues like that are always up for debate. We have better clarity in retrospect, same way we see slave trade today compared with those who lived through it.

In my opinion, I think Ironsi (a typical Nigerian military officer "out to enforce sanity" ) had good intention but sometimes "GOOD is relative" and a matter of perspective.

sulaak:
Irons was clueless, and he intended to entrench his people in power, but he failed with his life. Had he arrested and prosecuted the coup plotters, then Nigeria might have avoided the civil war.

Nigeria can never work as a unified country, and the evidence before us is that after 65 years, Nigeria has failed, regional government is the only option for Nigeria.

Too many assumptions again
You assume you know more than people based on casual online conversation while at work? Besides, how is knowing more a big deal?
Also, where is the INSULT? Interesting.

Lastly, the premises of my opinion here is not EXCLUSIVELY based on 'derivation/resource control'. That's an assumption on your part to fit the model that you have created for this debate. I even shared online resources here to buttress that.

casualobserver:
When people know more than you and try to educate you best not to insult them else they don’t waste their time and you remain uninformed.

Under a parliamentary military or presidential system, you can agree who owns what resources and how much goes to the center. Again it has nothing to do with the system of government. We can decide to revert to the old 50% they can do it today without changing the system from presidential to parliamentary. To think otherwise means you don’t know what is involved and the subject matter. We can revert to a parliamentary system and the Oil in Ogoni land will still belong to federal govt and they still get on 13%. like I have told you for the umpteenth time, they are 2 different issues.

In the same way it was 20% under a presidential system in 1979 and it is 13% under a presidential system post 1999, so also the same presidential system can increase it to the 50% it was in 1960.

Furthermore, the real issue apart of derivation is who owns the resources. Changing to a parliamentary system does not automatically mean Rivers state owns the oil under it. We are not practicing true federalism under the presidential system. We can achieve the same effect of the days of regional government by simply removing oil and other minerals from the exclusive list and increasing derivation to 50%. Don’t let people deceive you with parliamentary system if those 2 things do not change and trust me they won’t change. The real issue are derivation and exclusive lists not the system of government...both can be achieved under a presidential system. Like I have said before system of government does not matter if the actors are the same insecure actors…..in typical Nigerian fashion, you will come back in 25 years saying you want the old presidential system back.


Anything else is just changing lanes in traffic going nowhere!

We got a presidential system without true federalism, what makes you think because they revert to a parliamentary system it will be the same as it was. During the regional days? The devil is in the detail…who owns what resources and what percentage do you keep….that is what should concern you if you want a return to the glory days of 1960-66 not what type of government.

Based on the situation at that point in time, the decree was promulgated as a way of discouraging “tribal loyalties and activities which promote tribal consciousness and sectional interests and which must give way to the urgent task of national reconstruction.”

HBB1:
What good intentions did he have?

Please explain.

I think your problem is you are mixing modeling with reality in your debate. You are creating your own models and placing objects exactly where you want

casualobserver:
Like I said type of government is different from resource control. You are confusing both


1960-1966 worked because of resource control. What is being proposed not resource control just a change of system of government to parliamentary.

Again use the analogy of Nigerians in traffic, your problem is you are in traffic not the lane you are on.

Why are we not generating enough?

How did we perform with GDP between 1960 and 1966? You should have this answer since you have read our history extensively

*I believe Nigeria can do with savings of $500m today, don't you think so?

casualobserver:
My friend cost of governance is not the problem, a country like Nigeria with a GDP of $500b, Should generate revenue of $100b as a minimum. How much do we generate? Our 2024 budget was N27T based on a rate of 800:1 so approx $35b. And we are borrowing to fund it because the revenue is not enough. That is where the problem is, why is it that a country with a GDP has to borrow to fund a pittance of a budget of a mere $35b? Let us say cost of governance is $3b ( this is a guess). It only seems big because our budget is $35b. If our budget was $60b, it wouldn’t matter. Furthermore there is a minimum level of government spending, there is only so much you can cut. In my hypothetical $3b cost of govt (BTW I doubt it is up to this and don’t forget we are talking about the cost of the presidential system and parliament) not the civil service etc, the most you will save with all the cost cutting in the world if you are lucky is $500m! So the problem is not spending but revenue.

Nice quick reads on this interesting debate (for and against) so comments/contributions can be a bit above 101 level questions :

Parliamentary systems do better economically than presidential ones
https://theconversation.com/parliamentary-systems-do-better-economically-than-presidential-ones-111468

Are Parliamentary Systems Better?
https://www.bu.edu/sthacker/files/2012/01/Are-Parliamentary-Systems-Better.pdf

THE PARLIAMENTARY SYSTEM VERSUS THE PRESIDENTIAL SYSTEM
https://borgenproject.org/parliamentary-system-versus-presidential-system/

Presidential System
https://www.annenbergclassroom.org/glossary_term/presidential-system/

Parliament Over Presidents
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2019/10/18/parliament-over-presidents/

Cost of governance is not the problem, it is one of the major issues behind the problem.

Your points are accurate about the 'other' issues, where I disagree is with your opinion on the system of government. It appears that you have not taken a deeper look at how the parliamentary system differs from the presidential system and how this relates to our situation and peculiarities in Nigeria. Our system is driven by "enablers", and the presidential system or in our case (The Abuja System) is a destructive enabler. The specific individual issues are mere offshoots of these enablers.

For example, our GDP is not getting addressed because the enabler has a bottomline which is currently being met! All it takes is for Abuja to have enough funds to go round the stakeholders and nothing else matters. If the cake at the center shifts away from Abuja, that's a fatal blow on that specific enabler.

That's my point. Take a deeper look at it.

casualobserver:
My friend the cost of governance is not the problem, the problem is why states are not generating the revenue corresponding to their potential? If states were generating the revenue corresponding to all the natural resources we hear about, a portion of that would go to the center and cost of governance would not be an issue. Secondly, is a parliamentary system going to stop the parliamentarians from buying exotic imported jeeps and all the costs of office they currently enjoy? Are they not still going to be in Abuja? What happens to state governments?

Like I said the cost of government is not the problem, the problem is our revenue is too low for our GDP.

Don’t get me wrong I am neither and advocate for parliamentary system or Presidential system. I just believe insincere actors in either system will fail and sincere actors in either system will work. My issue is the actors are insincere so it matters not what system we practice.

Lastly you are confusing parliamentary system with resource control. Parliamentary system has nothing to do with resource control. You can achieve true federation and resource control in a presidential system.

Your own understanding of democracy must be from Ogba Zoo

Validated:
Who are the mad people still voting for APC? They need to be fished out and sent to Ogba zoo.

We have been talking about the huge cost of our current over-bloated presidential system for decades. This is not a fire brigade suggestion by Nigerians.

Here is an example from a conversation that may help your understand why this is an issue (one of our numerous issues):

"The method by which Nigeria allocates revenue between the central government and states impedes the development of a truly federal polity. The 1963 constitution granted regional governments control over natural and human resources found within their territories as well as broad powers to use these resources to fast-track local development. Consequently, big strides were made in areas such as education and agriculture."

casualobserver:
Stories of politics from any of those eras. It’s always the same thing.

The psyche of the Nigerian can be seen whenever you are in traffic. We always try to change lanes multiple times to secure 1 car gap that doesn’t really advance their cause in the process we have a fender bender and make the traffic worse for everybody. The Nigerian must always do something because we are more concerned with appearing to do something for doing sake but we don’t face the real issues which in the case of the man in traffic is simply you are in traffic and if everyone is patient, we’ll all get out of it faster but there are always some impatient people that end up making the traffic worse aka longer for everybody. These are the change the system people!

I have read our history. Be specific about what you want me to re-read.

casualobserver:
Read our history. If you read the accounts of things that happened pre independence and read the accounts of things that happened post independence in the 1st republic, you will be shocked……It’s like you are in 2024 and you never went back in time! Please try to find old newspapers from the 50s, 60s and 70s, if you remove the dates you will think you are reading stories from 2023. We can’t run away from ourselves…that the real issue.

The practicality of your suggestion is the issue.

The representatives of the most aggrieved parts of Nigeria are all in Abuja, and always been in Abuja, and have never made a move in that direction. The governors of the most aggrieved parts of Nigeria have never made a move in that direction.
The state house of assembly in those parts have never made such move.

Nawa4nl:
Let's just break nija, so we can all go our respective ways

You are right, but this one is a real issue. We should not avoid it.

casualobserver:
Nigerians like running around in circles avoiding the real issues. When we had parliamentary system we failed, we tried presidential, it has failed…what is the common denominator…..Nigerians! Every time we have an election they want to amen the electoral act, we have one of the best in the world but they still want to amend, what is the common denominator….Nigerians. We have all sorts of laws but the country does not work, what is the common denominator……Nigerians!

We can a,mend laws and systems all we like but we can run away from ourselves. When we are ready to deal with our real issues…..our Nigerian traits, they should let us know.

You are right.

mrvitalis:
Makes a whole lot of difference

The prime minister must defend everything weekly against the opposition

You can't be in a parliamentary system and not be vocal about your policy

Young people are more likely to become prime minister under parliamentary system

It's less expensive, more scrutiny

Johnson Aguiyi-Ironsi had good intentions back then but in retrospect, a huge mistake. His infamous Decree No. 34 of 1966, the “unification decree", effectively did away with the federal system of government practiced by Nigeria since its independence from British colonial rule in 1960.

What are you currently earning?

Ibadan option may offer you more spare time to explore life & side opportunities, and you can leverage internet/social media for rapid growth with your side gigs.

Jail dey hungry you.

Trejinoka:

---

Any rule broken? Use your own too na if you believe it works. Goodluck to their juju when they play against France, Argentina, England etc at the world cup

300 years baba? Going by Nigeria's life expectancy, many who are old enough to be regular on Nairaland today would be gone by year 2077, and a huge percentage of everyone reading this today will be gone by year 2099 (75 years time). Not impossible for one or two to remain alive in the next 100 years though

LalastiklaIa:
Both wealth and poverty is vanity. Because we still all die. And we will all be forgotten no matter how rich we are. In the next 300 years none of us will be alive and people alive then won't have an idea of who Elon Musk was. Many won't know he was the richest man in our time just as you don't know who the richest man was in 1724.

He is the Legend of No Gree

FireUpNow:
I love this Umar kind of person,l. Serve them as e dey hot. Nigerians and their bad mouths don jam baba who nor dey gree for anybody

Well deserved.

To one or two out of millions complaining about Aina's inclusion:

1 - His inclusion was based on comparison with other players in the same position.
2 - His inclusion was based on his performance across all the matches played (not just the final or semi-final matches).

His inclusion was 100% spot on.

Spot on.

Hopium:
As usual, they've turned this serious issue to PDP vs APC. They don't care so far they can type rubbish on nairaland threads to vent out their hatred for Tinubu and his government, because their failure was rejected at the polls.

Dolts. Don't start asking questions, abeg! Don't ask. You lots would leave your states to rots by your state governors then run to Kaduna, Kano, Rivers, Abuja, Lagos where the State government is working, then come online to bash the FG and even bash the government of your host states. Id!ots.

Inflation or not; Naira floating or not; Subsidy removal or not - What were these state governments doing before this administration? We've experienced massive wealth effect during Obasanjo's administration, what did these state governments do to increase/generate IGR, better the lives of their people, create jobs, attract foreign investments? During Yaradua, GEJ administration, how did they improve the lives their people? These are critical questions to ask. No be today they started getting FAAC. They've been receiving since 1999 - for 25 years! 25 foking years.

If they all worked hard like Lagos, Rivers, Abuja, Kaduna, Kano State governments over these years, we won't be exerting unnecessary pressure on a few states now. We could have had massive economy hubs spread throughout the country. Insecurity won't be worst like this. Chibuzor, Ade, and Yaro won't be migrating to Lagos to find jobs after schooling in Anambra, Osun, Jigawa because their states economy is thriving and they can easily find jobs there. Lagos won't be overcrowded. But yeah, let blame Tinubu for asking this critical questions.

A party of saints in this Nigeria? Each street in Nigeria get just 3 saints and 2 of those have never been tested with real money and power

membranus:
APC know themselves as thieves, so they are not hiding under any cloak. Their own money Ganduje and his forty thieves don chop am. Shikena.

But this LP which are claiming to be saints on a mission to save Nigeria have also eaten illegal N3.5bn yam, and instead of hiding their heads in shame, they are busy persecuting the only saint among them.

They already merged the two Ibadans in their dead on arrival proposal (Ibadan and Oyo Town). Ibadan is Oyo, Oyo is Ibadan.

fasbat:
Any state proposals without IBADAN STATE is stupid and nauseating, IBADAN is the only headquarters of the former Regions without being named STATE, KADUNA FOR NORTHERN REGION, ENUGU FOR EASTERN REGION, IBADAN FOR WESTERN REGION,SO IBADAN IS OVER DUE FOR A STATE

Dead on Arrival.

Only a military ruler can enforce this rubbish. In fact, some of the states should be merged together to reduce cost of governance in Nigeria. Our ultimate goal should be scaling down to just 6 federal zones and their respective local government units. We should be growing local governments without the encumbrances of multiple state units, to force meaningful development closer to the people across board.

Yes. Keep him alongside George Finidi and co.

He made some mistakes but for a rookie on the crazy African football scene, he did well. Let the NFF have a review and lessons learned session with the coaching crew and technical committee and come up with plans to address shortcomings noticed during the tournament.

For a team that people had little expectation of at the start of the competition, they did very well and made Nigerians proud. Doing one or two things differently would have landed Nigeria the trophy. We should build on this.

If he appears incapable of adapting and learning from his mistakes, based on our next 5 matches, then George Finidi should replace him down the line.

No need for special regulation in my opinion. Just be up and doing when people report instances of malicious or false accusations online. People making allegations must be prepared to defend themselves with law enforcement when a complaint is filed. Just apply the law and stop with this 'regulation' debate. All the uncontrollable cho cho cho clowns with no home training should know that societies have been governed by basic laws long before the birth of their great great grandfathers. Pick them up to defend their diarrhea mouth. Shikena!

Discouraging comment for the few scrupulous ones among us.

user32:
lies.......the offer was too little so it was rejected

Depends on your mindset/intelligence and the specific issue being addressed, half solution could be 50% of work done while you work on the outstanding tasks.

CodeTemplar:
Half solution is a bigger problem.

What of bandits? Read again, the question was why states are not having food reserves. FG has food reserves, many individuals have silos for their grains business despite the.emergence of bandits, is it wrong to ask why states are not having food reserves?

I'm sure you did not stop moving around or eating daily because of bandits lol.

CodeTemplar:
what of bandits? Lol. Half solution is a bigger problem.

The FG should declare a food emergency and make it an act of economic sabotage for any law enforcement officer or any citizen to stop and proceed to demand bribe from vehicles conveying agricultural products within Nigeria - no delay as long as they are not trafficking ammunition or dangerous products.

Also, why are the state governments not having their own food reserves too? As the Federal Government is opening up its own reserves to distribute food, states and LGs should also be opening their reserves too to compliment, and we definitely have abundance to alleviate the shortage but unfortunately, states governors are not interested or concerned, Abuja must spoon-feed everybody despite steady allocations.

Hah!