₦airaland Forum

Joagbaje:
Sirjohn,
There's no automatic salvation.

Okay,

Joagbaje:
A child may be consecrated and sanctified by the faith of the parents until the age of accountability. When he has to make his personal commitment to God.

If you dont mind Jo, when you say 'consecrated and sanctified' do you mean that these children are born as new creations? if not, what then qualifies the child entry into heaven at death with the adamic nature? if yes, dont you think that will make nonsense of the whole concept of salvation?

Joagbaje:
The infant baptism is like a prophetic dedication.

Hmmm!! this is a new one, can you please explain?

Joagbaje:
When children are dedicated to idols, the demons invoked will follow the child ,even though the child may not have understanding until he grows to make full initiation into the idol. Same spiritual law function in God kingdom. God says he will not depart in the way he is raised.

This sounds like a personal opinion to me, otherwise you may have to prove the contrary. you speak of LAW, in which book is this law stated?

Joagbaje:
@Nuella,

The children of Christians are sanctified by the faith of the parents. If they die before the age of accountability, they will go to heaven.

 1 Corinthians 7:14
14 . . . else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 

Okay jo, I have witnessed countless infant baptisms in CE, I was initially shocked the first time I saw it but when I asked, I was given the same explanation you gave above. In fact they went further to say that two Christian couples CANNOT give birth to a sinner because the seed of the man is holy. is this true??

newmi:
Sir John,
don't direct the question to me direct it to ogoamaka. I only followed the link he posted and made it open for all to read.

Since you were enlightened by the article, and you went ahead to make it bare; I believe you share his convictions. so you may have to defend it

newmi:
Tithe or Tithing first appeared in the Bible in Genesis 14:20-22 .Here we are told that Abraham gave Melchizedek tithe of all. And in GENESIS 28:22 Jacob defined what tithe is all about from the vow he made to GOD, “And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be GOD’S house and all that you give me I will SURELY GIVE a tenth to you.”. So we see from the above scriptures that tithe or tithing started in the book of Genesis even before the law was given or before the law came into force in EXODUS, This means that tithing existed before the law was given and is therefore not a law or commandment.
Having seen that tithing is not a law or commandment, what then is the spiritual meaning and essence of tithing? Tithing is simply a covenant obligation which those in the covenant practices TO APPRECIATE GOD AND TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE RESOURCES THAT THEY ARE PAYING TITHE FROM CAME FROM GOD, “and all that you give me , I will surely give a tenth to you” ( Genesis 28:22). In other words tithing is about the covenant or is rooted in the covenant relationship with GOD. That means that when you pay your tithe you are simply expressing your dependence on GOD and is telling GOD that you ACKNOWLEDGE that HE is the ONE that gave you the resources or the power to get the wealth or resources in which the tithe is been paid from. That is to say paying tithe is but expressing your total dependency on GOD and acknowledgement of HIM as the sources of the resources you are paying tithe from. Those who are not paying tithe are simply saying in their heart, “My power and the might of my hand have gained me this wealth.”

So newmi, what happened after Abraham and Jacobs supposed tithing? Did they continue tithing afterwards? The sabbath predates the law, do you still keep the sabbath?

Can you substantiate the emboldened statements above in the light of scriptures? or is it your own meaning of tithing?

newmi:
WHAT HAPPENS IF I DON’T PAY MY TITHE?  Before looking at what happens if I don’t pay my tithe, let us look at what happens if I faithfully pay my tithe; The answer is in MALACHI  Chapter 3 verses 10 to 12:  (1) First GOD said  HE will open the windows of heaven and pour you a blessing……, ”
(2) Secondly, GOD said HE will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your grounds…, ”
    In other words, if you don’t pay your tithe, you will never enjoy the full blessings GOD in your life. Secondly you will continue to suffer under the bondage of the devourer.

I laugh in Japanese at the emboldened statement above. I have stopped tithing for three years now and believe me, The blessings plus favour I have received from God far exceeds my fifteen years of tithing by many light-years.

forex!!

Joagbaje:
What's the point of posting an article of 10years ago?.

Does it matter how long the article has been, you should be concerned about knowing if what was said is true.

Joagbaje:
Romans 14:4
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

 Romans 14:4 (amp)
4 They are God's servants, not yours. They are responsible to him, not to you. Let him tell them whether they are right or wrong. And God is able to make them do as they should. 

Joagbaje, how can you tell Gods servant from an impostor? Can a man be regarded as Gods servant just because he's clad in a lovely suit, holds a mic and calls on the name of Jesus?

Joagbaje:
It is wrong for you to call tithing a scam. If you don't believe in it, it's your own problem but you should not insult the convictions of others.

'Tithing' in itself is not scam as an individual may decide of his own volition to give a tenth of whatever towards a Godly course (not necessarily church). But I am of the opinion that tithing as taught and widely practiced today is pure scam and deception.

We are in an IT age where information is very readily available to anyone who cares to know. People should know that no matter who they are or what they do, there are curious eyes watching, no more hiding behind the dark veil of technological backwardness.

Joagbaje:
@cold ,

I am not defending anything , I only stated the intention of the church. The press has been malicious .  Why is the emphasis on money and not seat reservation which is the purpose. If anybody come and ask me that a church was charging people money at the gate to enter church and whoever can't pay the money would be turned back! I will say that the  church is in error. So I'm not surprise at the responses of these ministers, the press tells them half truth. 

But the story is not like that. Have there not been Christian conferences and seminars that people go to and register with money? Why is the press now painting wry g picture as though someone stands at the gate collecting money from people. Many critics don't have the real picture and I don't blame them , I would have felt that way. How can a poor man be turned away at the gate if the house of God because he didn't have 1,000 to PAY.  But that was not the case. People were dully informed that admission into that particular auditorium is strictly by seat reservation. Let's leave out the money part for a moment. Suposing  the ticket is free, won't people be turned back ?  But the church didn't turn them back, they were only directed to other halls where they could have seat without ticket. Those who obtain the ticket did it with gladness, it wasn't an imposition as press reported. No body was collecting money at the gate, you only show your seat reservation ticket and you are admitted. If you don't have a ticket ,it means if you go in, you will end up taking another person seat.so if the reservation had been free, many will still not gain access .it is not a must to be in that particular hall. Those who pay for it only see it as a seed which they are glad to sow .     

The truth is distorted from reservation of seat to "CHARGING MONEY AT THE GATE" any person will be offended at that. 
Maybe what the organisers did which seem best to them may not be the best, but we leave that to God. The intention was not to exploit people. Members of CEC are givers. If we had been told to sow finacial seed for the programme, we will gladly sow. It is outsiders that are complaining for us.

We may never be able to explain the true motive behind the N1000 ticket, but the resulting ripple/domino effect is what you get for putting new wine in old wineskin; it definitely will burst. in other words 'good intentions' + bad application=public slander

Deluded fool, thats who you are!

And the likes of Joagbaje has the guts, effrontery, audacity and temerity to defend such shameless charade

I lack words I was actually waiting for someone else to break the news here. What else would Oyaks not do?? Again I say "I lack words"

Joagbaje:
The world loves it's own.

John 15:17-18
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before[ it hated] you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world.

nice gimmick , but sorry it does'nt work for someone like me

Joagbaje:
Because the people that God would have used to develop the nation are always being persecuted.

Luke 4:24
24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

Does that include false prophets ? ? ?

Joagbaje:
Pastor chris does not use Facebook .

Maybe its my ears, but I thought I heard him on 31st night say there are lots of things he wanted to do on facebook and twitter that he could'nt which made him want to creat his own platform?

fyneguy:
Simple. 1 person can follow as many celebrities as possible (as in the case above) . You can apply SETS principle. Some lady gaga's followers are also following Justin Bieber etc.  It does not impact considerably on the capacity. However, in the case of Pastor Chris, people signed up solely to follow Pastor Chris, which told on Twitter's infrastructure.

Your explanation does not hold water; you have no facts, you are simply assuming. Oyaks has just set up another business, I don't have a problem with that infact I admire him for that.
That night after unveiling the application, Oyaks asks the team behind the creation of the app if they had anything else to say like he didn't know what the guy was about to say, one of them stands up takes the mic and begins to market on behalf of Oyaks how that people can place adverts and sell products on yookos, immediately I grinned and said "thats it, business"

Joagbaje:
You don't have to be under dryer , that's womens affair,

Agreed!

Joagbaje:
just get a soft relaxer,wash it off and you are like any other man,

you missed it here, for Oyaks, it goes beyond soft relaxer and water; around 2000 to 2007 thereabout, Oyaks hair was fuller and he used a combination of relaxers, hair dye, styling gel and oils I'm sure he got uncomfortable with that cos his pillows would be messed up all night. Today, he wears low cuts and wouldn't need so much gel and oils. Meeeen!!! this guy get time o o o!!

cogicero:
another lie.

http://twitaholic.com/top100/followers/

top 10 twitter users by follower counts (all more than 4.7 million followers), and twitter never "[i]slashed [/i]their accounts"

1. Lady Gaga (ladygaga) 7,568,740
2. Justin Bieber (justinbieber) 6,498,736
3. Britney Spears (britneyspears) 6,493,422
4. Barack Obama (BarackObama) 6,216,011
5. Ashton kutcher (aplusk) 6,162,218
6. Kim Kardashian (KimKardashian) 5,723,343
7. Ellen DeGeneres (TheEllenShow) 5,648,785
8. Katy Perry (katyperry) 5,101,907
9. Taylor Swift (taylorswift13) 4,915,763
10. Oprah Winfrey (Oprah) 4,779,156

Okay fyneguy how do you explain this

mabell:
Im not claiming pastor has the highest follower on twitter . But if you give him one year , he will have the highest followership.These people whos name you mentioned have been on twitter for a long time to build followers but pastor chris hit 3million plus in two months! Is unheard off. Twitter site crashed for two days . Nobody could log on. They had to write us personally to enquire what all this is about. They began to give criteria to slash numbers down. Even after that when some people try to sign up , we received some funny messages on twitter such as "why are you following this man" or "stop following this man" very strange indeed. They only prove they are not capable of serving our purpose so we have to have our own platform.

Wow! is it really this easy to hoodwink people??

I don't think this is an issue of what the bible says because the bible does not say anything explicitly about curling hair. I believe its more an issue of personal acceptance based on cultural backgrounds; let me explain:

Oyaks is from Edo state, a south south state in Nigeria and as many of you would know, from years back its always been a common and almost normal thing to see men straighten their hair or wear earrings in the then Bendel region. It did'nt start from Oyaks, Ayo Oritsejafor wore jerry curls in the early nineties (hes from Bendel/Delta state), Chris Okotie also had jerry curls (hes also from Bendel/Delta state) and some others I don't have their names.

In the southeast/southwest its a different thing altogether, as men curling their hair was seen and is still seen as a sign of irresponsibility. in the southeast especially, you can't woo a huge congregation if you have jerry curl on; no one will listen to you: thats why Oyaks does not have as much impact in most southeastern states compared to other places.

for me, I'm a little indifferent; Oyaks is a bundle of talents and thats what matters to me. But I have other reservations about him; sometimes I wonder how he feels sitting down under a hairdryer or having stuffs put on his hair all the time, I wonder if he will still be doing it when hes 60. just a thought

mabell:
So you watched the program
Thank God for you

I am probably more up to date on happenings in CE than you can be

YOu Own KOSmos Oyaks Oyaks, you never seem to amuse me do you

Merry Christmas Y'all

Joagbaje:
It's not a bad idea if money is deducted from source for whatever,Some actually prefer it that way . But it must be by the consent of the giver. It's their money.

Q.E.D, let the people judge

Joagbaje:
I'm not aware you're minister, I would offer open apology if you are.

Keep your apologies Jo, like I said Oyaks belongs to the same league so I'm not alone

Joagbaje:
A spiritual vagabond is a man who doesn't have a church. I never called any minister a vagabond.

You've called me that several times Jo, but no sweat Chris Oyakhilome shares the same status with me' at least you confirmed that

Joagbaje:
.Nobody is ever forced to give.

You see Jo, this is where I have issues with you. You can only make the statement above for yourself and your local church, not for CEC. People cannot make this much noise just because they some airtime to spare. some pastors especially in CE employ the most unbelievable tactics to make people part with their monies. For example, I know at least five CE branches (group church) where a form of forceful giving is employed;

- church staff are not paid January salaries because the pastor says the salary should go for first fruits.
- Whenever a zonal pastor or deacon or even Chris celebrates his/her birthday, each church staff is levied a  particular amount of money which is deducted from their salaries before it even gets to them.

now this is just a little of many other funny tactics

You might be a gentleman pastor Jo, don't think others are like you!

Joagbaje:
Nobody has the right to force one into giving.

Thats more like it

[quote author=Platnum! link=topic=193649.msg7307705#msg7307705 date=1291979250]sir john/poster, I AM SORRY TO SAY BUT I FEEL SORRY FOR U, BECOS D PERSON U BROUGHT DIDNT GET HEALED U BECAME SUSPICIOUS, I REFUSE TO SIDE U COS OBVIOUSLY U ARE ON THE LOOSING TEAM.
PASTOR IS A MAN OF GOD AND IF U DARE SAY OTHERWISE U CALL GOD A LAIR, TOUCH NOT HIS ANNOINTED,PASTOR CHRIS.
IF U WANT TO KEEP UP WITH your STUBBORNNESS AND CONTINUE TO BABBLE,I FEEL SORRY 4 U[/quote]After reading your other 16 posts on nairaland, I think ignoring you is a much better option

mabell:
Don't be too sure, he might still be around for all i know

I'll be waiting!!

mabell:
@trubiliva,
at times i feel like leaving nairaland but the truth is i can't
I have concern for as many first timers that will come into the religon section of this site and see gibberish
This is my pain
I won't stop, i can't
People will suffer for it.
The work of God will not suffer because of mis informed and ill mannered people

@Orpah, i have checked that blog, powerful testimony

Its nice for trubiliva to have left, he /she couldn't have survived my asernal

tru biliva:
Ironic that you should laugh. You who do not even have a testimony of having healed a headache are laughing at someone who received one. Ironic, but sad. I have had a enough of talking on this blog. I only spoke up so that those who stumble on this site like I did would have an opportunity to hear the truth and not the twisted version of the healing school that you presented. My mission is accomplished and I will not be blogging here anymore. I advise anyone with any sense of morality and decency to steer away from the likes of you till you come to your senses and see that nothing is to be gained of your evil, worthless tales.

I have lots of reservations right now only because you are new in this forum, If you had the decency to go through this thread properly, you probably wouldn't have come up with all these gibberish. Its too late what your're trying to do right now cos people now know the truth just like you would soon find out.

tru biliva:
Dear Mabell,
thank you for your interest. I believe you are genuinely interested. My grand mother like most old people had arthritis. It is always heart rending to see elderly people who should be retiring peacefully after their many labors in life suffer so much. We brought her to the healing school and our joy was overwhelming to see her healed. This was a great testimony but there were even more astounding ones at the healing school. Terrible conditions like tuberculosis, cancer and even the dreaded HIV were healed. What is most fantastic is that some of these people returned to their doctors and their condition read negative after the healing. How can one explain it except to say it is simply supernatural.
There are all kinds of people in this world, there are those who would call us fools for believing that God can and still heals today but it is better to be a fool that lives with hope than an empty person who believes in nothing good and therefore is incapable of giving any good thing to any one else.
Imagine, a beautiful forum like this blog that we should use for sharing good news, helpful tips and inspirational tidbits, some use for maligning others and speaking ill of things they do not understand for the sole purpose of corrupting others. More good people should speak up. We are not trash bins for false news of others.
More good people with better taste and a sense of decency should speak out. It is said that evil prevails where good men keep quiet.

@tru biliva,
is that the testimony? I laugh . I want to believe you are new to this forum huh! we've heard all this before, don't let me push you a little bit harder we've handled your type before okay!!