₦airaland Forum

Wow! the competetion has just began, Chris Oyakhilome is next on line, dont be surprised to hear he has bought the US Air force 1

@4real,
I doubt if you have been following this thread

@Image123,
If you will not do away with tithing, then you are under obligation to keep the whole law. You of all people know that the process of transition from the old to the new covenant resulted in the dropping of several physical rites such as sacrifices, washings, sprinkling, sabbaths and tithing. A perfect explanation can be seen from what ttalks described using computer software upgrade (thats if you understand it)

Tears literarily ran down my cheeks as I watched this apology

stanloski:
My comment on this is quite simple
Tithing is the most efficient money making scheme ever devised in modern times. These guys collect 10% of everything! The almighty federal govt only takes 5% vat, these"men of God" racket is so sweet even the sicilian mafia will go green with envy. One other question is:WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL THE MONEY? This is what happens- designer suits, permed hair, lovely rolex wrist watches and mind boggling luxury homes. There are showers of prosperity but its for the tihtee (pastor, sorry business man) and not the tither (poor sods who have been conned into eagerly handing over their cash)

CLOSE THIS THREAD BROTHERS THESE SHEEP WILL CONTINUE TO BE FLEECED AND MILKED BY SMART TAX COLLECTORS

fyneguy:
@Kunle

Then it will be difficult (or impossible) for you to enter the kingdom of God.

Oh yeah! why? because he doesnt need any trickster to prosper?

fyneguy:
lol Kunle

Many are opening their eyes and the church is fast losing members such that the HQ had to split into 4 assemblies and 2 Sundays after, the main assembly recorded an overflow making it imperative to further split it.

Please continue your campaign of calumny against the church while the church continues to ''lose'' members to ''opening of eyes''.

You dont need to tell us Fyneguy, I know what soulwinning is like in CE. I once worked in the follow-up unit before leaving for the Haven. I know how Mr Chris is crazy about having overflows; I see it in his eyes when he talks about numbers, it gets him excited. You guys are just satisfying his craze for numbers. Yet there is no substance in the crowd; just a bunch of people who wouldnt dare look into their bibles
I once read an edition of rhapsody of realities where it was reported that a program held in the national stadium recorded an attendance of 2.5million by conservative estimate.
Haba! please tell that to the marines

Image123:
Tithing does not justify us.No form of giving does.We do not pay tithes because we want to be justified.We are already justified.We pay tithes because we know that we are not our own but belong to God,thats why we give tithe and mor than tithes to God in church.Some of the galatians thought their salvation was incomplete without circumcision,thats why they were warned .Salvation is in Christ Jesus,not by keeping the law.

I equally know that I belong to God, tithing does not have to remind me of that

maddock:
@ Sir John
No matter the response of anybody you will definitely have someting negative to say, i mean what personal beef do u have with Pastor Chris. If any at all? too bad because there is absolutely nothing you can say or do to stop the meteoric rise of his ministry.

Negative? yeah, maybe to you and a few other gullible folks but to many who are already walking out of the delusion, its edifying and enlightening

@all,
I appreciate your inputs so far on this thread, especially those of KunleOshob, Image123 and ttalks. I want to believe that so many Christians have been enlightened by the expose of Gods word on this thread and several others. It is my desire to see Christians losed from the grip of pulpit pimps masquerading as men of God.
I advise Christians to study Gods word for themselves without the bias of previously gained knowledge.

@fyneguy,
contrary to your pontificates and braggadocio, more than half the members of CE are living below abject poverty. I only pity the very few rich ones that shoulder the flambouyant lifestyle of Mr Chris.

maddock:
[b]As a member of the church you are not permitted to take photos without proper authorization,[/b]how much more these journalist that specialises in writing what their eyes did not see. Please 200million is too small,can someone advise him to make it a 1 billion so that he can start his newspaper company and continue to infringe on the right of others.

Its not a surprise, Mr Chris has a lot to hide

maddock:
Who do expect to drive the Hummer, Kenny Ogungbe and D-One alone abi? While this wonderful men of God should drive the tortoise car. Ignorance gone on rampage. Dont you know the earth is the lord and the fullness thereof. How a the sons of very rich father (God) be poor and all your unbelievers (children of the Devil ) be the ones to enjoy and drive the good cars.

Word: Delusion

Meaning: 1. false belief: a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence, especially as a symptom of a psychiatric condition
2. mistaken notion: a false or mistaken belief or idea about something

fyneguy:
oh my God! Please forgive me for ever discussing with Sir John. I actually mistook him for a christian.


So you dont understand what Paul meant by ''I can do all things, '' chei! so you didnt know that his ability to abase and abound was derived from his ability to do all things?

oh my God I will never again respond to this fellow's rantings anymore!

where was that ability when Epaphroditus nearly died of sickness or where was that ability when Timothy had issues with his health and lastly, why is Chris Oyakhilome unable to heal physically disabled folks (blind, deaf, lame etc) if he has the ability?

blacksta:
Remember what Jesus said - Pay Ceasar what is due and Give God what he also deserves

So what does God deserve? my 10%, you gotta be kidding me

tommyneo:
i just started paying tithe after asking logical questions as to WHY?

and finally, in my opinion.

dealing deductively with Gospel masters does not help one's faith.
rather from a rather relativistic and inductive approach, i may say one should rather work with faith, without which no one can see God.
Pay Tithe not because its logical but with faith according to what God told his kids in Mal.3
do it with faith. walahi i was shocked by some results i cldnt explain but call luck (from faith)

There are a million ways to express your faith and submission to God, it does'nt necessarily have to be through tithing. Malachi 3 was not talking to you at all but its your choice if you want to 'pay' it.
There are some of us who have more mind blowing results and testimonies of breakthrough, financial increase, sound health, protection/deliverance etc but I cant say its because of my tithes because I dont 'pay' it.

hubreality:
A Christian(one, born of God's Spirit ) is in oneness with Jesus. He/She has the inherient abilties of our Lord Jesus. He/She can do all things through Christ, do you understand? A Christian(A believer) is the light of the world just like Him(Jesus Christ) that lives and abides in him/her. The walk of faith is far beyond the concept and understanding of self, science, and the man made religions of the world. Let God be praised! Hallelujah!!!

Dont get all jumpy jumpy with me by reciting one of Chris Oyakhilomes creed. Nowhere in the Bible are we said to have the same 'abilities' as christ, if we did, Chris would not have to stage miracles. When paul said "I can do all things, " what do you think he meant? Its certainly not what chris told you. Now here is what Paul said in the proper context:

"But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.
Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."

I think your Pastor got confused with the word 'all things' but clearly it is limited contextually to what paul was talking about.
So dont go around thinking you are some superman cos you aint

@Image123,
I really do commend your effort towards studying more on what you believe and stand for. At this rate, I believe you are not very far from finding the truth.

PRE-MOSAIC TITHE
Although I still get surprised at some of the arguments you make; for instance, you speak of Abraham and Jacob giving tithes but you fail to understand that these men gave tithes out of their own freewill and it is not on record that they continued doing same neither did they pass it on to their children. Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils of war to Melchidezek, a practice which was common at that time even among pagan nations (I suggest you do a study on that). This is very much similar to the feet washing argument, but a good study of old Jewish culture sheds light on so many gray areas of the subject.

Jacob made a promise to God to give a tenth of all that God would give him; that was between him and God just as Jepthah  In Judges 11 vowed to God that if he were victorious in battle, he would give to God whoever came through the doors of his house upon his return from battle. So it is very clear that what these two men did were not anything close to ‘paying tithe’.

THESE OUGHT YE TO HAVE DONE, AND NOT TO LEAVE THE OTHER UNDONE
You also do not accept the argument that Jesus was only referring to the Pharisees when he said:

“ Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.” Matt 23:23
Well, what better explanation do you have? Jesus was talking to a people who at the time were still under the Mosaic law. When he healed ten lepers in Luke 17:12-19, he sent them to the priest; this was the requirement of the mosaic law (read Leviticus 17)

During his ministry, Jesus gave instructions to his disciples; When you read the book of acts or some of the epistles of Paul, you’d find some of Jesus’ instructions being carried out by the disciples. An example is the breaking of bread, Jesus said: “This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.” Luke 22:19 of course we read in the book of Acts that the disciples actually did it. If the disciples tithed, how come there is no record of it directly or indirectly.

PAY VS GIVE
If you say ‘Pay’, then it means there is a debt or obligation which is the case with the mosaic tithing which the Pharisees practiced. They were debtors of the law and so using the verb ‘pay’ is not inappropriate, however, you may also use the verb 'give' to also describe the same action. In the case of Abraham and Jacob, it was not said that they paid a tenth, instead the verb ‘give’ ‘gave’ was used this is because it was not an obligatory action. So what I'm saying in essence is in the context of this subject, you can use 'pay'/'give' where there is an obligation but you may not use 'pay' to describe a non-obligatory action

hubreality:
How can that be, pastor Chris is not Jesus Christ and has never claimed one.

This goes to show that you do not understand his message. Does he not claim to have the same abilities as Jesus yes or no?

theteacher:
Dear SirJohn/ Kunle,

You guys are obviously on to something with regards to tithing.

It is true that there is really no scriptural support for the tithing system as presently constituted especially in the light of the abolition (by God) of the Aaronic Priesthood for which the tithe system was set up to support.

But be wary of what knowledge can do to a man. It is easy to get "puffed up" and miss the point that God is not out to mock those who pay tithes but to lovingly show them that He loves them regardless of their position on the matter.

While it is true that some unscrupulous "pastors' fleece their flock to get whatever they can, others still are "mistakenly" convinced that tithing is God's will and out of a genuine heart lead people to obey "God's injunction".
I know that the notion of a tithe collecting God keeps a number of folks from experiencing God fully (since they are restrained in their minds from boldly make their petitions known) but I believe that God will, in His time, set them free.

Besides, don't you think that anyone who insists on tithing after such glaring evidence to the contrary has bigger issues to deal with than tithing?

Don't you also think that such a person will be more obstinate when your presentation of the truth seem to mock their belief?

Arguments hardly win any one over, and mockery will drive them further away; no body wants to be called a fool or be told that his pastor is a thief.

As far as I know, the real problem is not tithing; the real issue is that people seem to believe that there must be a catch to salvation and its benefits as nothing ever goes for nothing.
and nothing can be further from the truth

You have a point here

fyneguy:
Ebony4life


I see. you know what?- the guy should go ahead and sue Christ Embassy, so he can get N200 million.

Let's wait and see if the court will rule in his favour.

end of discussion.

fyneguy, isn't it obvious what the outcome of such would be? chris is rich and is the leader of a powerful cartel; he'll spin money around like he did in SA for ken his brother.

hubreality:
It's very clear that 90% of the many of the faceless ids' in the forums who are busy writing against men of God who have won so many of souls to the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ are unbelievers, though they might have read the whole Bible and can comfortably quote them mainly the "atheists"

Mt 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.(KJV)

A curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! for you go about land and sea to get one disciple and, having him, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.(BBE)

samueloo:
I like the contributions so far but i must say that tithing is not a church routine but rather its a way of expressing your worship to God,its a way of telling God dat u are my source of finance.every riches has its sources and there are only two means 2 riches 1st is God, deutoronomy 28vs8,and secondly the devil luke 4. U might be looking at aliko dangote as someone dats not born again and one who does'nt pay tithe,but if only u can see more u will know that aliko has a source and he must constanly tithe to remain connected to his source.

Something is not necessarily true because it sounds or feels so. What you have said in your post is nothing more than presumption; that is: something believed without actual evidence: a belief based on the fact that something is considered to be extremely reasonable or likely. The practice of tithing for the new testament christian has no strong biblical basis, rather it is an ideology or concept based on mere conjecture.

Imagine this dude saying that Aliko Dangote will have to tithe to continue being a billionare; you must be a dreamer just like every tither

proudly9ja:
The thing is I still do not understand the reason for this thread.

The thing about THE TRUTH is that, when it dawns on you, it makes you look foolish and blind. My thought is that if you have a belief or faith about something, you work hard at it on YOURSELF and not try to force people to join you? Just my thoughts. Like someone said here earlier, you said you foolishly (your words) used to pay tithe and now, you've 'seen the light'. I also want to believe that when you believed in paying tithe, you also tried to convince people to pay tithe. Now that you have 'seen the light', you are now trying to convince the people you once told to pay tithes that it isnt compulsory anymore? What if tomorow, you suddenly realise that you are wrong again, would you go back to them and try to reconvince them again?

The FACT is that no man has absolute knowledge. Absolute knowledge belongs to God. All we have as Pastors, Bishopsm Engineers, Accountants, Scientists,etc is all relative knowledge. All subject to time, space and based on our understanding of events.

The most important thing is to make sure what you're doing and how you live your life will take you to heaven. Its a personal race. When we get there, we will have answers to all the questions. Right now, if you want to pay tithe, pay, if not, don't. If really you are sincere in your heart, God will tell you which is right like He did to Paul, Cornelius and so many others.

The information I had at the time I practiced and taught tithing was not completely word based, it was based partly on a distorted view of scriptures and man made ideology from pulpit pimps. For example, tithers would say that if you do not tithe your income for the month, you will end up not being able to account for how you spent your money that month or telling people that if they dont give their tithes to God, they will indirectly be giving it to the devil through hospital bills or any other misfortune.

How does this ideology conform to Gods word? This is just a few of the many distorted concepts associated with tithing.

hubreality:
The Healing School of Christ Embassy is not a healing home nor a place where people come to try or mock the integrity of God's word; It is a Healing School where scholars are taught the active and living word of God. They Words of God are shared to them in Truth and in Spirit giving no room for the play of religion and it's associated politics.

Did Jesus or the apostles need any such charade in their time? Put on yoour thinking cap dude!!

hubreality:
Your faith in God's word is the vital ingredient required by God to ensure your miracle.

Thats a big lie Hub, God does not always require your faith to perform any miracle. Read your bible Hub. Jesus performrd many miracles in which faith was never required from any of the people. The FAITH lie is an excuse by pastors to wriggle out of tight corners

hubreality:
I have also seen many of the thousands who came from several nations of the world including Nigerians that went back without been healed. It bothered my Spirit, but you know what? I realized that even Jesus could not do mighty miracles in his place. Why? Was He not the Son of God, fully anointed by the Holy Ghost? Why? Because of their unbelief. Get this right, Without Faith, it is impossible to please God. Hebrews 11:6 Not their cries nor the sufferings that showed upon them.

That is chris oyakhilomes number one defence tactic,that does not answer the question of why the blind do not see or the lame walk or deaf hear in the Healing School; or is there no blind man with faith or a dumb person with faith?
LIAR

hubreality:
I thank God for the just concluded 2009 February session of the Healing School held in Lagos, Nigeria. It was awesome seeing the Power of God's word made maninfest by the power of the Holy Ghost. Miracles were countless to the glory of God. The Word Works!

2009 March - April session of the Healing School with Pastor Chris is on now in South Africa. The glory of the later shall be greater than the former in South Africa in Jesus Name, Amen.

Enter the Healing School:
http://www.christembassyhealingschool.org/

Liar Liar!!

Image123:
I pay tithes.I'm not under bondage.God supplies my needs and keeps the devourer far away.Its ignorance to think that paying tithe is bondage.

I dont pay tithes. I'm not under bondage. God supplies my needs and keeps the devourer far away. its ignorance to think that paying tithe is not bondage

omobaba101:
1. It was never said that tithing is going to be the qualification for salvation, so if you choose not to tithe, those that choose to tithe should be respected for their decision.

Neither was it said that I should tithe in the first place

omobaba101:
2. You will need to explain what Matthew23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. means or maybe you move that verse to the O.T portion of your own copy of the Bible

I'm sure you must not have been following most of the threads on tithing, otherwise you would'nt be asking this question. First of all, let me ask you: What do you think mint, anise and cummin are? secondly, do you think the new testament was in force at the time Jesus made that statement? or do you think that everything you see in the gospels is new testament? According to scriptures, when does a testament take force?

omobaba101:
3. Tithe is not the only thing that guarantees blessing or financial abundance, so it is possible for someone to be financially rich without giving tithe.

Thank God you know that

omobaba101:
4. You need not use a non-Christian like Dangote to teach a lesson about the Bible, just like the American constitution is not bidding on a Nigerian residing in Nigeria - does that make enough sense to you?

Just to let Christians know that God blesses hardwork, diligence and faithfulness instead of using tithe and seed sowing as a 'get-rich-quick' tonic

omobaba101:
5. For the distribution that was done in the church in the days of the Apostles, you also need to learn from the Bible that the people in the church brought the things for distribution and not the Apostles. So if there would be distribution in the church, it must be brought by the members of the church and not the pastors to supply it.

I dont think I got that

My brother in-law was recently made a bank branch manager; he quit paying tithe and firstfruits several months ago after he realized the same truth that I stand for. I bet you that if he was still a tither or that he payed firstfruits to Mr Oyakhilome early this year, he probably would have believed the promotion he got was a reward of his firstfruits or tithes.

This is exactly the case with so many of you; you've been paying tithe for so long so its easy for you to relate any good thing that happens to you to be as a result of tithing.

Someone said in his post today that if you dont give a tithe of your salary for the month, you will not be able to account for your expenditures for that month; thats a very laughable statement. The only reason that feeling may come is due to the guilt that has been planted in your mind by your pastor.

for example, Chris Oyakhilome speaking on firstfruits and tithe tells his followers that "the firstfruit belongs to God, so if you dont give it to him, He'll come and get it anyway" He went further to tell them that "Israel is Gods firstborn, when the Pharaoh would not let Gods firstborn go, God went for hes (pharaohs), so if you dont give your firstfruit, God will go for it"

Tell me if this kind of statement will not plant guilt in the heart of his followers if they disobey.

On tithing, this is what Chris says: "your tithe is your security", little wonder why some people would rather give the tithe than follow Gods word. I dare say that false hope is the major drive behind most tithers.

Image123:
Must you brainwash my fellow nairalanders by continously opening anti tithe threads.If e dey pain you,just turn the other way now.As my football loving friends will say "Tithe for life"

I think the question here is very simple besides, I have stated that this thread is not to establish wether or not we should tight tithe. Some of you have said that we are supposed to tithe while some of us say we are not under any such obligation. So I said no problem, since you want to part with your 10% and we dont, kindly tell us whats in for you that we 'disobedient' non-tighters tithers cant partake in. Also, how come we have poor and sickly tithers when Malachi 3:10 promised an open heaven for them? Are you also asserting like most tithers that you do not experience any form of misfortune no matter how small?

@Image123,
Kindly use short well spaced paragraphs while posting, it makes reading a lot easier.
Thanks

freelance:
Things would be Tight

well sorry to burst your bubble, but so many of us have been waiting for the 'devourer' to come and 'tighten' our finances; he sill hasnt showed up