₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
The God talked about when Jehovah said none was with him simply means when it comes to worship only Jehovah deserves to be worshiped {Revelations 4:11} Moses was God {Exodus 7:1} and he walked with God before the statement at Isaiah 43:11 was made. So we need an accurate knowledge of God's word otherwise we will be mixing it all up! Romans 10:2-3

The word is as clear as crystal, what are you mixing it with?
Jehovah said there was no God with him, he didn't say there was no God worthy of worship with him, your belief is purely pagan.

The pagan's believe that there were small God's with the Almighty although those smaller gods are not worshiped but they could be honored alongside Almighty God, this is exactly your belief.

Yahweh said there was no God with him

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

This clearly shows that Jesus is not the Almighty because he begged the Almighty to save him:
During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. Hebrews 5:7
So Jesus is a God but not the Almighty!

Yes Jesus begged Almighty God to save him because he was a man.
The bible teaches Jesus to be a God-man meaning he exhibit both the character of Almighty God and a human. Pointing out Jesus character as a man only prove he was truly man but does not disprove that he is Almighty God.

NEXT

The highlighted has flaws that's why other translations rendered this same verse differently.
Jesus was the master craftsman beside God in the beginning {Proverbs 8:30} but he himself was created! Proverbs 8:22
So when God said there's no other God beside Him what He meant is worship belongs only to Him {Mark 12:29 compare to Deuteronomy 6:4} that's why Jesus himself worship Jehovah and told us that Jehovah is his God and our God, his father and our father! John 20:17

[/quote]this proves that Jesus is yahweh, because Jehovah alone created the heaven and earth alone.

Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.


Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

MaxDhouse you have nowhere to hide!
You should realise by now that jehovah witness organization is a pagan religion and leading you to hell fire!

Nobody555:
You no de read your Bible?

Are you ok at all?

Nobody555:
Reverse is the case you first get baptized by the spirit before you become born again

You are not born again because you don't have the spirit of Jesus Christ.

Are you aware that if you are not born again you won't see the kingdom of God?

HedwigesMaduro:
This is the dumbest "proof" people give for the Trinity doctrine. So, if a president tells his cabinet "let us send the army to Borno" it means the president is many persons in one?

You analogy is so stupid. Which cabinets did God consult to create man with him?

DappaD:
I’m glad you decided to go the way of the Greek etymology. Well, the Greek word ἀρχή (arche) only correlates with the statement in highlight. Christ is not the source of creation. You know why ? Because the Bible never says so. Instead check out what 1Corinthians 8:6 has to say about this. Then distinguish between who is the source of creation is, and who the agency/link through which creation came to be. They’re not the same thing.

1Corinthians 8:6 NIV
“yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”

If all things came through christ that makes christ the source of creation. The verse you just quoted means both christ and the father are the source of creation. That means both christ and the father are not created.

What do you understand by this scripture with respect to what I said earlier ? Especially concerning the words ‘from’ and ‘through’ ?

All things came from the father meanin he ordained those things to be bit those things came through christ agency meaning both the father and the Son are the source of creation but in different roles.

. This scripture even buttresses the point I was making. So you agree that Jesus was created by another “LORD” in Proverbs 8:22 ?

christ himself was not created but he became part of the creation when he took the human nature.
Christ is regarded as the wisdom of God.


1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Proverb 8 vv 22 said God possessed wisdom in the beginning of his way,

Notice that "the way of God is differentiated from his works.
The way of God are his plans, the establishment of wisdom was the first thing.

If christ is the wisdom of God then the predestination of christ was the first thing God plan, because of this Jesus can be called the beginning of God the creation of God because his ordination took place before the creation, mind you the fulfillment of it only took place when the creation began and at the right time.

Jesus being the beginning of God's creation does not mean his person had a beginning.

DappaD:
Okay so let’s correlate your surmise with this statement at Genesis 49:3
“Reuʹben, you are my firstborn, my vigor and the beginning of my procreative power, the excellence of dignity and the excellence of strength.”

You’re saying that Reuben was the “originator and ruler” of Jacob’s power/strength or can we agree that he was the firstborn of all of Jacob’s children ?

Not the same with Revelation 3 vv 14,
The word arche gives room for many meanings which include source, ruler, first part of creation etc

Strong's Concordance
arché: beginning, origin
Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arché
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')
Definition: beginning, origin
Usage: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.

I will say all three definition of arche, which are
1. Source
2. Ruler
3. First part of creation

are all true, how?

1.John 1 vv3 state that all things were created through christ making him the source

2 He is the ruler of God's creation as the son of God

3 is the first part of God's creation, because the plan of christ becoming the wisdom of God was conceived before the heavens and earth were created.

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Nobody555:
Lol a husband, wife and children are one person? they can only be one as a family!

The idea of Trinity is wrong! If the three Gods are three distinct persons as Trinity says, then they can't be one God or one person.

The fact is Jesus is working for God according to God's will. God's will is his will. God is greater than him and God gave him everything he needs and made him what he is.

Jesus always have a Father and a God, in his preexistence, while on earth and after ascension.

What happens at the end? He will return the rulership to God and becomes God's subject! God will be all in all!

"Hear o Israel the LORD your GOD is one"
"There's no other gods besides me"

John 17:21-22
[21]I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.
[22]“I have given them the glory you gave me, so they may be one as we are one.

You will soon eat the humble pie, don't worry.

Can you bring the Hebrew interlinear of Hebrew 6 vv 4?

cornelboy:
Lol i get your point.
But let's say he meant the holy spirit, i wan use some questions reset his brain..

see this clown, I have dealt with your elders before you, they ran away in shame.

Nobody555:
See YHWH is one God, one person. Nobody knew Jesus untill he came to the world. He's a God, a mighty one but he's definitely not the one true GOD, the Almighty. His coming to the word to die and give us eternal life was all according to God's will.
God appointed and gave him authority, power, an excellent name and the kingdom to carry out his missions. When the will of God for earth has been completely done, Jesus will hand over the kingdom back to the Father and become subjected to Jehovah's rulership. Jehovah will be all in all.
Hebrews 1:4-5,9. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. John 5:26. Mathew 28:18.

So you mean Jesus is a God? Which means you believe Jehovah was lying when he said there was no God with him, when infact John state that Jesus was with God .

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jehovah witness organization insults Jehovah calling him a liar, when Jehovah said there was no god with him they wanna prove to him Jesus is a god that was with him that even help him in creation.
Bunch of idolaters and truthhaters

Nobody555:
Lol you sure say you get the holy ghost?

Of course you are not born again that is why you don't have the holy spirit.

DappaD:
“...The beginning of God’s creation”—Revelation 3:14 RSV
The statement above was made about Jesus. What do you think about that ?

The statement means Jesus is both the originator and ruler of God's creation.

[quote author=Nobody555 post=109666193][/quote]Re-adjust your reply properly

MaxInDHouse:
I can understand.
Thanks for sharing your time with me, God bless you and may you have PEACE!

I am already blessed with peace, joy and righteousness of the holy ghost.
Your fake God has no blessing or peace to offer

MaxInDHouse:
Why are you agitated due to simple discussion?
Well if it's just the quotations you want please read:

Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought. 1 Corinthians 1:10

earnestly endeavoring to maintain the oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace. Ephesians 4:3

make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind. Philippians 2:2

I'm not forcing this on you but that's what we believe and it's working out fine WORKS in our midst, that's why we have a global organization where we treat one another like brothers and sisters! Matthew 12:46-50

Hahahaha, A minute ago you, said show me the word Trinity in the bible,
I asked you show me new world translation in the bible, you couldn't
Now, I didn't even ask you to show me the word jehovah organization organisation's o?
I only ask you simple question base on what you said that where was it written in the bible that true believers will be under one organization?

You are blabbing! You are obviously telling lies for your religion, showing you are a child of the devil cause he is the father of lies, all his children are liars!

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

You just exposed yourself this evening

MaxInDHouse:
People who have the same line of thought will be trained through studying God's word {Isaiah 2:2-3} through their diligent study of God's word they will have the same line of thought {1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3; Philippians 2:2} and what will be the result after they've been trained to have the same line of thought?
They will settle anything causing racial disputes among them, divert all their resources into the production of food and information materials, they will stop thinking about politics leading people into military services and vow never to raise weapons against anyone! Isaiah 2:4
The NWT has helped the JWs to fulfill all these while you can't talk about any group of TRINITARIANS that have vowed never to kill their neighbours even when Jesus ordered his followers love and pray for their enemies! Matthew 5:43-48
So what exactly has this your TRINITY achieve anywhere apart from lips services? Matthew 15:8

oga simple question you are convulsing
Where was it written that true believers will be in one organization?

Why run when you are asked to provide evidence from the bible about your beliefs?
Simply because jehovah witness organization is a fraud set up by taze Russell.

MaxInDHouse:
So do you think God's Holy Spirit can't unite true believers so that they have the [same line of thought under one organization? John 17:22

All true Christians have one mind, meaning those who truly believe in the Trinity has one mind.

John 17:22

@ bolded where was it stated in the bible

MaxInDHouse:
I thought you're going to list the fine fruits the TRINITY is producing Sir, this is just criticism not one single thing your TRINITY has changed in the minds of it's adherents!

These is the fruit of the Trinity.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Not every body that mentiin the Trinity/God truly know the Trinity.
Jesus said that not every one that says Lord, Lord will enter into his kingdom, it does not mean because people who mention Lord Lord produce bad fruit therefore knowing Jesus as Lord is false knowledge, does it?

MaxInDHouse:
With the NWT we have gone throughout the world to convert millions and made them disciples zealously preaching and industrious teaching God's word in their neighbourhood! Matthew 28:19-20

With the NWT we have erased hatred from their hearts so that they no longer see their neighbours as enemies that deserves to die but prospective inhabitants of God's kingdom. Matthew 5:43-48

With the NWT we have taught them never to raise weapons against anyone in the name of racism or politics, so they've vowed never to go to war anymore! Isaiah 2:2-4

With the NWT we have trained them to be obedient to the rulers so when others are agitating or protesting against the government whether they call it peaceful or violent protests JWs will not participate! John 17:14-16

With the NWT we have taught them to love their fellow believers exactly the same way Jesus loves them, so throughout the world everyone use to say about Jehovah's Witnesses "they love their members" John 13:34-35

Can you present any good result of your TRINITY? Matthew 7:16-18 compare to James 2:18-26

Only on watch tower pictures!
Jehoavh witnesses I see are mostly hypocrites and pretenders, people who loves watch tower more than Jehoavh e.g maxDhouse,

An organization that defends and cover up peadophiles, has an history of false prophecies, commit murder through heresies.

Deuteronomy 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

An organization that denies Jesus, serves Satan, yea these are the fruit your watch tower and new world translation yield.

No wonder through your new world translation, your prophecies has failed and continue to fail.

MaxInDHouse:
Now don't start lying, it's not written anywhere in the Bible unless you want to give what is written an interpretation which you shouldn't expect intelligent individuals to accept if it's not yielding positive results in the midst of those believing it! Matthew 7:16-18

New world is not written anywhere in the bible, stop lying, what positive truth can a lie yield?

MaxInDHouse:
NEW WORLD! Isaiah 66:17; 2Peter 3:13; Revelations 21:1

Trinity is in the Bible, Matthew 28 vv 19

MaxInDHouse:
YES! And that's why Jehovah's Witnesses version is named NEW WORLD TRANSLATION OF THE SCRIPTURES!

where is the word New world translation found in the bible

MaxInDHouse:
Funny enough the word "TRINITY" is not found in all the 31,200 verses of the Bible!

It is not about the word found in the bible, neither does the word bible in the bible

Nobody555:
Important note!
Pls ensure to make your responses short and precise. Referencing the bible is very essential. No insult on personal level or religion is allowed pls. Let's try to portray Christ in our character and how we interact with others. Don't try to force your opinions on others, it's an open discussion. When proving your point, asking questions is better than making assertions.

Since when i was in my early teens, i have been finding it hard to comprehend and believe the Trinity. I'm often told that I need to believe God as mystery. So i wonder, how can I know or walk with a mystery God?
I also wonder if the the disciples and the early church understand God as three persons in one God or one God in three persons or just one singular God, a person?

John 14:17,26
[17]He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth.......
[26]But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.

The question here is if the holy spirit taught the apostles and first believers everything and led them into all truth, why are we still left to believe God as mystery?
Another question is those that established the Trinity doctrine years later after the early christians, were they led by the holy spirit?

"Trinitarians believe that the one God eternally exists in three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and that these three are one God, co-equal and co-eternal, having precisely the same nature and attributes, and worthy of precisely the same worship, confidence, and obedience".

Now this thread will focus mainly on the "COEQUALNESS" of the Trinity members. Other qualities will be discussed in my subsequent thread.
Is the Father greater than the son?
Are YHWH and Jesus really coequal?

John 14:28
[28]Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really loved me, you would be happy that I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am.
1 Corinthians 11:3
[3]But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

The bible teaches that God is a trinity, for example in Genesis 1vv 26 God said let us make man in our image, meaning there was more than one person there.
Secondly, God speak and God performs the action of creation in the bible, and also God inspects and saw it is God, this shows there are three persons here, one speaks, one performs the action and one inspects but all three are called God.

Deutonomy 6 vv4 says yahweh is one yahweh, now the Hebrew word used for one is plural meaning God has a unity of plurality, this wouldn't make sense if God is not a multi personal being.

As for Jesus not being equal to the father, yes it is true that is because Jesus became a man, as a man he is less than God.

Look any gospel that omit christ and his finished work is a false gospel.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son

IronGalaxy:
I can't keep a logical discussion? Logic is exactly what I applied in my discussions with you so far..I know logic is a foreign concept when it comes to religion fanatics, like Moses speaking alone on the mountain to God but someone else heard the whole monologue, Lol.Open your mind

so logic to you means going ofcourse to an entire different topic, so how do you have a logical discuss with someone who keep going off course?

tctrills:
the bible calls Jesus Christ his begotten son

the only Begotten son of God because he only has a unique relationship with the Father, it has nothing to do with a literal birth.

IronGalaxy:
This is exactly what's creating the confusion in the world, religion Adam this, Muhammad that, Bhudah that ugh! etc. Fairy tales my brother , fairy tales.. Imagine Noah taking every species of animal into Some ship.. all Animals, large elephants to the smallest of ants urgh..fairy tales bro. People confuse religion to spirituality! Religion is the crux of all the wars and all the confusion. So quoting those verses bro..I don't know

you can't keep a logical and consistent discuss, so what brought Noah's ark to this? What concerns me with Mohammed, Buda or fairy tales?

tctrills:
Isn't God the actual Father of Jesus Christ?

Actual father in what sense?

tctrills:
Ok, thanks for your answer. It makes some sense. But why then use the word firstborn when actually trying to say something entirely different?

I believe the ise of the word firstborn is because the kind of relationship God desire to have with us is that of a family, that is why God is always describe as father and Jesus describe himself as a son, meaning even withing the trinity there is a kind of family relationship.

IronGalaxy:
We are sinful because God himself created us that way! Sin is inbuilt onto humans, you cannot create a product and then come back to criticize it, think about it, God is omniscient right? he is past, present and future, so he knew even before you were born that you on the 23rd of Jan 2022 you were going to sin and yet still made you,lol.. so how can he make you, knowing fully you were gonna sin and then still punish you for those sins? isn't that a little sadistic?

God didn't create you that way, sin came through Adam.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

God provided the opportunity for you to either
Continue in Adam or to come into Christ who is the new Adam, the choice is upto you, even if God knows your choice but he will not interfere with it but provide you with enough resource to make make the right choice but the choice is yours at the end.
God treat darkness as darkness, and light and light both exist for God's glory.
Whether you make the right choice or the wrong choice what matters is God's glory is revealed.

tctrills:
I would be happy if you can clarify that. That might help us understand the 2 scriptures

The first born used in colossians 1 vv15 means pre-eminence

While the firstborn used for Israel means God first choice.

Amos 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

Israel is the first nation God chosed to be his own

tctrills:
What curse follows them?

Have you heard of the curse of the Law?

Deuteronomy 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Deuteronomy 29:21 And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

The history of Israel has being filled with sadness, till today Israel do not have a king, their land is under attack by the Arabs who hate Israel and vowed they will never have peace, Hitler single handedly killed six million jews , Israel till today haven't gotten their real land and the worse is about to happen, according to prophecy a world ruler would come who would deal the greatest blow on Isreal such they have never seen before, the whole world will finally unite against Israel at the end.