₦airaland Forum

k2039: Mary is/was never the mother of God.
Yes,she was the mother of earthly Jesus,but God has no mother(it's blasphemous saying Mary is the mother of God)

unless u are saying Jesus isn't God!

[quote author=.bbpreye]That means she is human! Just like all of us! That means she is the "earthly mother" of Jesus and not the mother of Jesus or mother of God as catholics call her!

Holy Mary mother of God pray for us... Dammm![/quote]did any1 say she isn't human??

k2039: John 1:1,It's obvious Jesus pre existed Mary.


John 1:14,Mary had to birth Jesus in human form.

so mary gave birth to a man wu isn't God abi? Dat means mary didnt give birth to Jesus because Jesus is both God and man!

Ofcuz mary gave birth to Jesus according to the flesh, catholic believe that, joshep is d father according to law (adoption), catholics believe that too! Mary isn't the originator of Jesus' divinity catholics believe that, Jesus exists eternally and is b4 mary, catholic believe that too! Jesus God the son, took human flesh in the womb of mary by the power of God and d working of the holyspirit, catholics believe that, and by taking flesh in mary's womb Jesus is both God and man (hypostatic union) catholics also believe that!
The last part is what follows, since Jesus wu is God took flesh and became Godman thru conception mary gave birth to Jesus who is both man and God. She didnt give birth to just a man, a man isn't Jesus, instead she gave birth to the word made flesh, God in human form.
Thus she is the mother of God.
Please note the statements above flows and an attempt to circumvent them will be illogical. The only way u can say mary isn't d mother of God is to claim like ijawkid and frosbel that Jesus isnt God.
If u go with ijawkid atleast u are free of hypocrisy, if u claim Jesus is God and mary isn't d mother of God then that is hypocrisy! [quote author=.bbpreye]Why do catholics call Virgin Mary the mother of Jesus or Mother of God? Does God have a wife? Was Joseph not called the earthly father? Why is Mary not called like wise?

Why do they now call her Mother of God? God the father, God the son and God the Holy spirit has been there even before creation or before Mary came into this world. So why have catholics given him a mother?

Please Nairalanders what do you think?[/quote]

Where are the traditionalist??

Akbee: This is arrant nonsence.

that is ur opinion and u are entitled to it! Fortunately i don't agree with you! It makes sense and i can read it with a xtian meaning even though im not of fan of c.s.l.

Frostyzone: The funny thing about church is that even after
years and year of attending you often end up
hearing about the same ten or fifteen stories,
only with a new twist on them each time.
Or better yet the preacher has his own moral
lesson he wants to teach and while he does it
picks out individual lines here and there from
the Bible. So you end up walking away with this
idea that the Bible is mostly stories of "God's"
love and how to be a good moral person.
Well that's because if anything other than those
handful of cherry-picked stories were peached
and the rest of the stories in the Bible were
taught in their entirety, people would go, "Are
these people insane?" and immediately walk out of the building.
Anyways, see the entire
list below. It's pretty damn funny -- well until you
realize people actually believe this stuff.
.
.
2 Kings 2:23-24
Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.
.
.
Mark 14:51-52
A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped na.ked.
.
.
Deuteronomy 23:1
No one whose testicles are crushed or whose
male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.
.
.
Genesis 38:8-10
Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.”
Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD; so He took his life also.
.
.
1 Samuel 18:25-2
Then Saul said, “Thus shall you say to David, ‘The king desires no bride-price except a hundred foreskins of the Philistines, that he may be avenged of the king’s enemies.’” Now Saul thought to make David fall by the hand of the Philistines. And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well to be the king’s son-in-law.
Before the time had expired, David arose and
went, along with his men, and killed two hundred of the Philistines. And David brought their foreskins, which were given in full number to the king, that he might become the king’s son-in-law.
And Saul gave him his daughter Michal for a wife.
.
.
Exodus 4:24-25
Now it came about at the lodging place on the
way that the LORD met him and sought to put him to death. Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son’s foreskin and threw it at Moses’ feet, and she said, “You are indeed a bridegroom of blood to me.”
.
.
Ezekiel 16:17
You also took the fine jewelry I gave you, the
jewelry made of my gold and silver, and you
made for yourself male idols and engaged in
prostitution with them.
.
.
Ezekiel 23:19-20
Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. She lusted after their ge.nitals as large as those of donkeys, and their seminal emission was as strong as that of stallions.
.
.
Judges 3:19-25
And Ehud reached with his left hand, took the
sword from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly. And the hilt also went in after the blade, and the fat closed over the blade, for he did not pull the sword out of his belly; and the dung came out.
.
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Deuteronomy 25:11-12
If two men, a man and his countryman, are
struggling together, and the wife of one comes
near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his ge.nitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.

i come across these passages pretty often except d part on d mosiac law and d parts on war.

alexleo: Not personal though. Its general for anyone who isnt born again. If you are a charismatic then the possiblity of you being born again is there but if you are just a catholic going thru the nonsense hail mary prayer then i doubt.

maybe u shuld learn d meaning of born again! U used a word u dont know its meaning!

chukwudi44: Wow! Antho padua!! I was once a parishioner there as a student of Unizik a few years ago.Then there were still using the school building to say masses.Later learnt they have erected their own church building now.

wow! So many wu lived in awka!

Logicboy03: Burden of proof.
Theists make the claim, they should provide proof of their god.

and one wu takes a stance must have sufficient reason for it! That is also commonsense!

You lack common sense

all thru my discussion with u i have noticed u write b4 u think dat is y u are very quick to insult and apologise, learn to think b4 u write that way u wont have to go abt apologising everytime! As for ur insult above, it stand as an indication 4 all to see, logicboy of commonsense wu cant be polite.
Weldone!

nitlad: Got the ebook already
Gon' start reading soon.

the book in question is d last segment of the series "JESUS OF NAZARETH" it already has a vol 1 and vol2, i think d vol 1 is d last supper, passion death and ressurection, vol 2 is abt d ministry of christ d last segment is on d infancy frm age 0 to 12, d last segment is very small and d pope recently said it shuldnt b called vol 3. It seems he rushed the book to a conclusion (rumours has it that the octagarian is anticipating is death and that d papal calender 4 pope ben stops at middle of next year) and it may very well be his last book.
Please paste a link and d ebook u gat!

nitlad: Got the ebook already
Gon' start reading soon.

the book in question is d last segment of the series "JESUS OF NAZARETH" it already has a vol 1 and vol2, i think d vol 1 is d last supper, passion death and ressurection, vol 2 is abt d ministry of christ d last segment is on d infancy frm age 0 to 12, d last segment is very small and d pope recently said it shuldnt b called vol 3. It seems he rushed the book to a conclusion (rumours has it that the octagarian is anticipating is death and that d papal calender 4 pope ben stops at middle of next year) and it may very well be his last book.

Logicboy03:


atheism is only a stance on the existence of god.

and it isn't a stance what defending, so no one shuld give an apologia on atheism. Wow!

truthislight: what value have you added to this thread with this ^^^?

Is this thread about JW?

Is this thread above what you can add a rational comment?

Go resolved your issues with JW, this thread is exclusively a bible based debate.

Peace

hahaha, are u angry?? Hahaha, u did d same thing so post ago and u were very happy to do it, d post has abt 3 likes now u are condeming someone 4 doing the same!
Hypocrisy,

Ubenedictus: ur live anaconda dey talk? Abi e b xtian?

it is quite simple veneration (honor) and intercession can only be given to beings wu are believe to be alive like the saints in heaven!
Oh! I forgot u have a different perspective of d after life and u dont believe d physically dead are alive in spirit!
In a word NO, i gat no biss with a snake!
Are u happy?

truthislight: verbal communication is what you have?

Reported peach is liable to corruption.

Not when satan is so powerful that he even made "in road on the epistle" how much less the so call oral tradition that are not even of christ apostles but of men, even though we had been warn that after the dead of the apostles apostacy will kick in.
2these. 2:1-5

you are gambling with your chances of everlasting life.

Any writing that does contradict the epistle(NT bible) is a risk.

My friend, this is not a family business, dont take chances with your hope of everlasting life.
Peace

and you are not following d bible that clearly says "hold on to d traditions..." u seem to be d person gambling with ur hope of eternal life by rejecting a part of scripture!

alexleo: Bible is God's word and thats where we stand.

a very good stand, but do you know that there was no compiled bible till the 4th cent and many books claim to b "d word of God"? Does that mean d word of God was not in existence till the 4th cent? A little christian history lesson will do you much good!

I'm sorry if this is a shock for many, but i cant find a forum taged "african traditional religion", that said i'm doing a study on the african indiginous religion and well ifa from Nigeria, what is it's philosophy? The early missionaries did block out and relate d religion with the devil thus making it imposible to get an objective christian or muslim to comment on it, the babalawos are scarce again d missionaries caused it. So my last resort is d internet and its numerous forums.
When we hear xtianity they talk of Jesus wu was sent by the "jewish God", there is still no absolute agreement among them of wu Jesus is! The muslims say muhammed (peace and blesng b unto him) was a prophet, a messenger sent by "their God". What is ifa's story?? Wekipedia didnt help me much so i also add the question, in ifa how is divinition made?
Hey to the xtians and muslims here, this is an objective study and i won't tolerate insults on the tradítional religion and it peeps.

Logicboy03: Epic fail of a threat

it was no threat man! Cool off! Atheism isnt a body of thought, it even isnt a position to it cant be defended becos apologetic is defending a position!

Oahray: Where is Ubenedictus ? Still no answer on the meaning of 'angel'?

sorry dear, im not jobless and can't spend all day on nairaland! I gat stuff to do!

plappville: Before the book of Hebrew, were there not older book that spoke about Christ, even if the name Jesus was not mentioned?
keep blind eyes of the OT and then suite yourself with pretence by jumping to the NT.

all i need to show the stupidity of ur theory is one scripture, just one and truth is told!

pastormustwacc: @Oahray, thanks for the contribution. But alas, this thread is getting more and more fascinating. I sure say even Jesus and/or Arc Angel michael dey follow the thread sef.

it has already been defined by d verse in heb 1 dat say "are they not all ministering spirits..." chukwudi already defined it!

italo: @ Boomark,

There are many anti-Catholic threads on nairaland where you can go and display your stupidity as you always do.

This thread is primarily about The Apostolic Faith Church and its teachings and practices.

But as you go on to vent your stupidity, try to find out what we mean when we say "Church Fathers" and read about them.

It won't make you less stupid, I'm sure...but it will make you more informed.

dear italo,
this wasnt necessary, bookmark learnt a type of christianity where he doesnt even know about the church fathers and the role they played in transmiting the Gospel. Your advise was ok though but the way you put it makes it problematic.
Peace dear!

truthislight: the truth be told.
the actual tradition that paul had in mind will not contradict the apostles epistles(NT) just like the NT does not contradict itself, infact, just like the bible does not contradict itself.
Think about that.

there is no contradiction in the deposit of faith, no contradiction in d tradition handed by mouth and the tradition handed by epistle.
I repeat there is no contradiction in the word of God, no contradiction between the tradition of mouth and the tradition of epistle. It is one word of God delivered thru words and epistle and i repeat for the third time it doesnt contradict.
Paul made it clear that the christian must accept both the tradition delivered by mouth and that delivered by epistle. One who accepts one and ignores the other is not following the word of God. That is why i rely in the word of God for doctrine and that word was delivered thru the apostle by word and epistle.
The so-called contradiction u seem to see is a figment of your imagination, it doesnt exist in reality.

italo: You should read the whole verse. It says "hold fast to the traditions we passed to you EITHER BY WORD OF MOUTH or by letter.

So the tradition is God's word, part of it passed onto us by letter, part of it by letter.

It is easy for you to accuse other people of following "unscriptural" traditions but examine yourself first, Which of the trdition passed by word of mouth do you hold fast to? NONE.

You are the one going against scripture.

amen

obadiah777: GLAD WE CAN SEE EYE TO EYE ON THIS HERE ISSUE BROTHER UBENEDICTUS

this just happens to b 1 of d stuff i gat no problems with. I do blive satan is doing his purpose and helping the children of God unto salvation. God is truly sovereign and everything must work unto his plans.

highyo: We have been brainwashed from the very beginning. There are so many facts to prove that this image is not Jesus Christ but a fallen angel.
Fact 1
Jesus was a jew, and jews don’t wear long hair
Fact 2
It is a disgrace for a Man to wear Long Hair (1st Cor 11:14)
Fact 3
It is forbidden to depict God in the arts made to look like Mortal Man (Rom 1:23)
i.e. No draw god for paper or calve am at all. Abi you no get respect?
Fact 4
Thou shall not make thee any graven image or any likeness of anything in heaven
(B)
Now look at the attached image, why are all these images has the same hand gestures
This hand sign is known as Ardha pataka mudra, used by the gods. It is generally known as ardha pataka.
You can browse google to confirm for yourself

Can anyone tell us the year they invented camera?
And what kind of camera did they used to snap him when he was alive thousands years ago?
You have all being brain washed.
Many churches use this image as a symbol of Christ in their churches today. But believe me or not, you are hanging a demon in your churches or houses. Even if you are not the one who drew it, you have supported those that drew it, that is why you have it in your home and churches.
Do not be deceived by its outer appearance. THIS IS NOT JESUS
I know many of you will have hard time believing this as you have always been. You are angry, offended, and confused
FIGHT THAT HYPNOTIC SPELL IN YOUR MIND AND WRESTLE IT WITH THE TRUTH. BE AWAKENED, FREE YOUR MIND
The wounded heart
They remove human heart to serve the gods called QUETZALCOAT. So the so called Jesus is not Jesus but Quetzalcoast gods

and the images of nero can still be found yet there was no pic of nero, pipo wu saw him told those wu didnt and today we still gat icons.

advocate666: ^^^^


So, have you read the book?

a silly question! U saw sum1 at home at 6pm and u are asking "are u back from work?"

Oahray: So far one of the best threads I have seen on Nairaland. Too bad I didnt stumble upon it on time. Its funny how there is one Bible, yet many interpretations. Reason, some people have a set doctrine in mind even before they open their bibles. The trinity doctrine being one of them. No one who believes the that Jesus is equal with his God and Father would even be willing to accept any contrary idea. I appreciate the efforts of all that participated, especially those who let scripture answer scipture.

I must say I am impressed with truthislight, plappvile, ijawkid, barrister for their sound bible-based contributions.

The major issue with Frostbel is how the conviniently ignores things stated in the Bible, when it doesnt support his view. I read the many scriptures posted to you on the issue of pre-existence, and I think you are fighting the bible.

Ubenedictus and the other trinitarians, I see your position. If I believed in the trinity, which I do not, the idea of Jesus being the same as Michael would sound blasphemous to me.

Pastormustwacc, nice thread.

I think I have a few things to add too.

one doesn't need to believe the trinity to know that Jesus is michael all you need is heb 1, it clearly shows Jesus isnt an angel, d father neither address him as angel in heb, and i can't find the been stated implicitly in scriptures what i see in heb convinces me that Jesus isn't an angel.
Anyway you are entitled to your opinion! I'm more suprised that all the early xtians even the heretics believe Jesus was not an angel! Again u are entitled to your opinion

k2039: @chukwudi44,I thought by now you and Ubenedictus must have renounce catholism,but I'm surprised you still defending it.

i just saw this, i've gat to tell ya dear friend, my commitment to the truth of the gospel and my love for seeking that truth won't let me renounce catholicism, now more that ever my dear friend i'm more commited to that truth. So God help me!
U didnt conclude d last thread we had on the immaculate conception and the full import of the word "kecharitomene"

italo: @ Boomark,

Go and read the Church Fathers.

hmmm...

Boomark: Are you lying or you're joking? Is this what you are taught to do?

SMH in waterproof!!

How can italo be telling me a truthful impossibility biko nu? Don't you know its like telling someone that you have the pictures of jesus.

I don't need what your fathers say. I want to hear the sound of apostle Paul's voice.

and apostle pauls voice says "hold on to the tradition..."