₦airaland Forum

coretechng: Why do you like deceiving yourself?The bible is very clear on this--''nobody cometh unto the father except through Christ Jesus''Plain and simple.Why are you people hard of understanding?

TroGunn: Is it really the same? Asking for another living person to pray with you to God through Christ is one thing, i.e You/Another ->Jesus ->God. There's a clear scriptural basis for this - "Are any of you sick? You should call for the elders of the church to come and pray over you, anointing you with oil in the name of the Lord" - James 5:14.

You, on the other hand, does the actual praying through Mary, which is either You/Another -> Mary -> God OR You/Another ->Mary -> Jesus -> God.

How does that reconcile with the scriptures which shows Jesus to be our only mediator and intercessor to God, like:

"Therefore, because he always lives to intercede for them, he is able to save completely those who come to God through him". (Heb 7:25)
"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5)

rumours: The Devil is happy even as some people are trying so hard to justify idolatry. God is watching! Our Catholic brothers should break away from the Roman modus operandi like the church of Nigeria Anglican communion did with the church of England tried to allow gay people run things. I seriously pray for a revival in the Nigerian Catholic church and I know that God will do it one day in Jesus name. Amen.

talktimi: mumu, do you bow down to your mum's portrait @ home ?

TroGunn: Which early Christians? Christians are to imitate Christ and the examples of the Apostles as written in the Bible. And the miracles Paul or Peter is no reason to go filling a religious place with images. "God works in mysterious ways" is last resort of the ignorant who can't explain the basis of their religious beliefs or practices. A picture of myself has no religious significance and thus won't be in a church.

ijawkid: Nope....God gave moses, joshua. Specific Directives which he never gave to the catholics..........

And you know that........you guys have desperately and presumpteously made images and mouldings for worship......

That was Something the isrealites did back then when they made the golden calf that made Yahwehs anger descend on them.......

Bowing down to marys image and praying through her is blatant idolatry....

bukatyne: and how can mary n d other saints interceed for you? wat then is d work of d Holy Spirit? do you know d meaning of a saint biblically? a person who is born again! so how can dey intercede for you? it's u who needs to read ur Bible properly. there is only one mediator btw God n man (JESUS). peter, paul n co never asked moses or jacob or abraham to intercede for them so y are u asking mary n peter to intercede for u? Jesus has given us a pattern of prayer in matt 6. it's not complex.

2. My cousin one day korokoro wen no one was around stopped front of a jesus picture in d parlor and started talkin to it, like thru it she wil reach Jesus, i den asked wat you doin she lied nothin,
3. Der is dis joke wen small dat dey said horse passed a statue of mary and d horse bow, dont you catholics kneel and pray b4 mary statue in ur church
4 even in western movies normal normal u see dose mexicans kneel and pray to jesus statue dey KNEEL AND PRAY LOOKIN UP TO IT AS THOUGH JESUS WAS THERE AT DAT TIME PLS WAT DIFF IS DIS FROM WAT HAPPENED WHEN SHEDRAACH AND CO REFUSED TO BOW TO STATUE OF NEBUCHADNEZZAR, remember dey refused to bow to dat image and God God sent angel to save dem, tel me how u catholics are any diff frm d babylon folks

solomon201: Can someone (a catholic ) pls tell us why they petition Mary to pray for them? Will like to see scriptural backing on this. If I remember clearly Jesus said no one comes to the father except through him. So where does praying to Mary come from?

Youngzedd: That same God told Moses to build an image also told Moses and others not to bow and worship images.

Tell me the reasons why people pray in front of the images.
And also concluding prayers using the name of saints e:g Mary, Tansi etc instead of God almighty.

plappville: Why are some people so bitter when been corrected with the scripture?
No one can boast to know the bible perfetly. We are all learning.
I think it's wrong to reject a plain truth and still claim to be following Christ.

pastormustwacc: In the Apostles' Creed, there is a statement about Jesus descending into hell. Did he literally go there?—DEBRA BLACK, Alton, IllinoisEach Sunday, millions of Christians around the world recite the Apostles' Creed, including that statement:
"I believe that Jesus … descended into hell."

Yet a few years back at one Christian college, a series of chapel messages on the Apostles' Creed had to omit this item, because none of the 12 professors of Bible and theology believed it.

Actually the statement is not found in the earliest form of the Apostles' Creed. It echoes Acts 2:31, and seems to be there simply to make the point that Jesus' death was real and complete. Jesus went to hades, which in the Greek signifies the world of the departed—paradise for some, pain for others. When the Apostles' Creed took its English form in the sixteenth century, "hell" meant hades as such, rather than the final state of the lost (which Jesus called gehenna), as it always is today. So, should those who accept the Bible as their supreme authority for belief hold to the Creed's doctrine on this point?

Scripture tells us very little about Jesus' state between his death and resurrection. The most commonly cited biblical passages are Acts 2:31 ; Ephesians 4:8-10 ; 1 Peter 4:6; and, most importantly, 1 Peter 3:18-20. Ephesians 4 is likely a reference to the Incarnation, and 1 Peter 4:6 could apply to any preaching of the gospel. But numerous interpretations of 1 Peter 3:18-20 exist. Some say the 1 Peter 3 passage should not be taken literally—that it is symbolic, conveying in graphic form the idea that redemption is universal in its extent. This, however, involves a more spiritualized hermeneutic than usually practiced by evangelicals.
Others contend that this refers to a descent by Jesus into the realm of the dead between his death and resurrection, and an actual preaching to its occupants, either offering salvation to them or declaring his own triumph over death and judgment upon those who in their earthly life did not respond to God. This interpretation, however, seems in conflict with the rest of Jesus' life and ministry—and with the context of the passage, which emphasizes a faithful, gentle witness, giving a reason for one's faith, even in the face of opposition .

At the same time, the non-literal interpretation has difficulty accounting adequately for the reference to Noah , unless the preaching was restricted only to people from Noah's time, which seems strange. It also appears to conflict with the theological context, or how our interpretation fits with other, more clearly established doctrines. Here we encounter biblical references teaching the finality of death over and against any opportunity for salvation, at least since the time of Christ.

Many consider the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) pertinent to the question, as are much of Psalm 49 and Revelation 20:11-15. Hebrews 9:27 indicates a close linkage between death and judgment, with nothing mentioned as intervening. And Jesus' statement to the thief on the cross—"today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:42,43)—also is relevant.

One other interpretation, held by Augustine and defended strongly by several evangelicals, seems more promising. In this view, Christ preached "in spirit" through Noah as Noah built the ark. This was a message of repentance and righteousness, given to unbelieving people who were then on earth but now are "spirits in prison" (i.e., in hell).

Source: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/february7/31.74.html

tobechi74: Some people belive they are good enough to make heaven.they havent stolen,killed wilfuly etc. Are u one of them,are u gud enof to make heaven?

Williamfors: What is the origin of the myth?

“Images were unknown in the worship of the primitive Christians . . . The admission of images into the church in the 4th and 5th centuries was justified on the theory that the ignorant people could learn the facts of Christianity from them better than from sermons or books.”— Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, by McClintock and Strong, Volume 4, pages 503 and 504.
What does the Bible say?

“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them.” (Exodus 20:4, 5, The Holy Bible —New International Version) The apostle John wrote to first-century Christians: “Little children, guard yourselves from idols.” —1 John 5:21.

Are images, as the churches claim, simply a means of approaching and honoring what they represent? “At first,” states The Encyclopedia of Religion, “images may have served primarily didactic [teaching] and decorative purposes; at least, they were defended on such grounds. But soon they came to fill admittedly devotional functions. This was especially true of the icons that became a prominent feature of Eastern Orthodoxy.” However, the prophet Isaiah rightly asked: “To whom can you compare God? What image can you contrive of him?” —Isaiah 40:18, The New Jerusalem Bible.

Compare these Bible verses: Isaiah 44:13-19; Acts 10:25, 26; 17:29; 2 Corinthians 5:7
FACT:

God does not approve of the use of images and icon

Williamfors: What is the origin of the myth?

“Images were unknown in the worship of the primitive Christians . . . The admission of images into the church in the 4th and 5th centuries was justified on the theory that the ignorant people could learn the facts of Christianity from them better than from sermons or books.”— Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, by McClintock and Strong, Volume 4, pages 503 and 504.
What does the Bible say?

“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them.” (Exodus 20:4, 5, The Holy Bible —New International Version) The apostle John wrote to first-century Christians: “Little children, guard yourselves from idols.” —1 John 5:21.

Are images, as the churches claim, simply a means of approaching and honoring what they represent? “At first,” states The Encyclopedia of Religion, “images may have served primarily didactic [teaching] and decorative purposes; at least, they were defended on such grounds. But soon they came to fill admittedly devotional functions. This was especially true of the icons that became a prominent feature of Eastern Orthodoxy.” However, the prophet Isaiah rightly asked: “To whom can you compare God? What image can you contrive of him?” —Isaiah 40:18, The New Jerusalem Bible.

Compare these Bible verses: Isaiah 44:13-19; Acts 10:25, 26; 17:29; 2 Corinthians 5:7
FACT:

God does not approve of the use of images and icon

Logicboy03: Sharaap there! It boils my blood when someone is apologising for a former slave master! It is highly irritating. You know your church is built on scandals and immorality, yet you still want to follow and deceive your African brethren to follow this foolish church.

I was a catholic. Do you know my baptismal name? Phillip! I have a proper traditional name in my local language that praises god. Do you know what the cathecist told me? He said that I hadi to be baptised in the name of a saint or a prophet in heaven. Meaning that no one from my village or traibe is in heaven.

The racism and slavery to Europeans is quite disgusting in the catholic church. How many of your saints have proper African names? When you look at the list, it is made up of latin, spanish, hebrew and Jewish names mostly.

What about the bible itself? It contains so many verses both in the old and new testaments sanctioning slavery.

Jesus never even one day condemned slavery

Have you even noticed that the prophets and messengers of god were all from the middle east and mostly jews? Did Yaweh forget the west africans? mmmm?

Only for him to remember our African forefathers with slavery in the 16th century.

to hell with you and your slave religion. Jewish/European slave. Keep apologising for them!

BERNIMOORE: @Italo

Again you need to know that God has a standard 'he directs how his things are to be done' and that is why you need to know how God frown at when someone 'creates and subtitutes Gods standard with his own'. that is what the catholics just did! and fortunately,let us see a perfect example of ''creating an image as a means through which we direct worship to God''

Have you ever wondered why 3000 isrealites were killed by plague by God? because they seek worshiping God through 'Calf image' since they cannot see God and could not wait for moses to return from the mountain to give them Gods commandment, they assume worshipping God in their own way 'through calf image'
lets read;Exodus 32:7,

7 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. 8 They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them [/b]and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, [b]‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’

Note Gods anger is that ''They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them'' God understood the fact that they were trying to give a worship to him through the calf by reffering to Gods wonderfull act towards their delivery from the egyptian army of pharaoh saying ''These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt'',since the calf-image was moulded with their rings necklace etc,they want to impress that the calf image is just a representation, and they want God to understand their desperate situation for worship but they are impatient to follow Gods command earlier in exodus 20; 'you shall not carve any image for youself.......

Similarly, when men seek to worship God according to their own innovations, they are concurrently deviating from the biblical means of worship, and thereby adding to their own guilt. The Lord declares of such: "In vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matt. 15:9).
"The acceptable way of worshipping the true God is instituted by himself, and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representation, or any other way not prescribed in the holy scripture."

Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God. What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it" (Deut. 12:30-32).
That last statement points to doctrine highlighted earlier in the book of Deuteronomy respecting the sufficiency and authority of scripture. "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you" (Deut. 4:2)

BERNIMOORE: Even going by your reason of using marys image, you are still found wanting and causing of confussion, how? Mary's role according to catholics is Competing with Christ,and Conflict with Scripture

Since Our Lady of Fatima (the Virgin Mary) asserts an equivalent position to Christ with respect to mediating salvation, we have a problem on our hands since 1 Timothy 2:5 together with Hebrews 7:23-25, Acts 4:11-12 and John 14:6 [size=14pt]clearly and unequivocally state that Jesus Christ is the eternal and sole mediator who can save us and that he is the only way to the Father.[/size] Can the Virgin Mary have any possible rivaling salvaging role that also happens to be supported by scripture? No, it doesn’t… because salvation is a business done by Jesus and Jesus only.

sacred Scriptures leaves no room for doubt or compromise.

you can see that from all angle the notion is defeated outrightly!

BERNIMOORE: @Italo
you are a criminal,oh you think i dont remember what i said earlier? by mixing it? italo, you are a criminal to the core by 'setting in disguise or putting this next words in quote as mine ''Joshua bowed and made supplication''you see your life? did i ever equate what joshua did 'as an act of worship? noooo!
joshua's case is a tottally different one! firstly,you need to understand that did God ever demand that joshua should fell down before the Ark? all what God demanded was to listen and follow his command, because he need not to have fell on his face before the ark had he not rely on his own understanding and failed and later seeking Gods favour by force! and he did so out of panic!''obedience is better than sacrifice(samuel says)''

may i say that you 'italo are learning' only if you will be humble enough, because your poor application here shows that you are not even conversant with the joshua story that you want to use as a bait to hunt others; lets see how you poorly put it like olodo



“Get up off your face, Joshua.” God spoke, with surprisingly brusque words It was not a time to pray.there was no need to fell on his face at all! refusing to learn from the story tell so much ignorance in you!

It was not a time to seek God’s blessing. There was nothing to pray about until Israel faced its sin and repented. Then, and only then, would the blessing of God-given victory continue.

First, Israel became self-confident. When the spies returned, they told Joshua, in Joshua 7:3, that they would not need the whole army. It would only take two or three thousand to conquer this city. They relied on their own ability.
Where did this presumption come from? What had Israel done to defeat Jericho? One thing. One thing only. They obeyed. When God said march, they marched. And the walls came a-tumblin’ down. It was not Joshua’s leadership or Israel’s military prowess that won the battle. It was God’s power. But now,Israel was taking credit for what God had done. “A mighty army like ours, having just defeated Jericho, will find little challenge against Ai.”

Remember this: In the power of God, no enemy is too big. Greater is he that is in you… But in the power of self, no enemy is too small. You can be defeated by anything in this world if you trust in yourself and rely of your own power. Those who trust in Christ will never be disappointed, but those who trust in themselves will be amazed at their ability to fail.

Second, Israel was careless. Achan had sinned against God, taking spoils from Jericho against the command of God. Israel had sinned and God would not bless them until the sin was dealt with. Today, we want to think that God has changed his mind, that he will bless us whether we are obedient or not, whether we walk in the flesh or in the Spirit.

When Israel repented, the blessing of God returned and Ai was defeated. But the victory at Ai, in Joshua 8, reveals the fatal flaw in Joshua’s leadership in Joshua 7. Israelwas self-confident and careless, but there was a bigger problem.

Finally, the battle of Jericho was won because Israel did what God told them to do, the way God told them to it. In Joshua 8, the battle of Ai was won because Israel did what God told them to do, the way God told them to do it. There is a pattern in victory; God commands, his people obey, and God acts in power.

In Joshua 7, Joshua acted independently, entirely on his own. God did not say, “Attack Ai.” He did not give battle plans. Joshua sent out the spies. Joshua made the decisions. He never sought God. If he had gone to God before the first battle of Ai, God would have said, “Deal with your sin first.” Thirty-six men would not have had to die.

believing a priest simply prayin for you can take a dying man to heaven,

believing d pope can erase all ur sins, saying dere is purgatory, beseechin mary to talk to Jesus,

changin 10 commandment to suite demself,

as dey removed d dont bow before idol part and split d covet wife and property commandment in two,

stil all men to deir belief

Boomark: Tell us what worship is.

Boomark: So what made you to still refuse we have been teaching you. Take it and throw away every idol in your possession.

BERNIMOORE: @rich4God


ask a willing-suicide bomber's opinion about who he worships,he will definatelly tell you allah, and what reason does he have? he cites the jihad'surah chapter 9:5; which mandates them to 'slay' or 'kill' non-muslims who are generaly perceived as idolaters,it reads and i quote surah 9:5...slay the idolaters,besiege them,lay ambush for them....

Now from the suicide bombers Opinion,his actions as perceived by many is 'ignorance to them' because he is commissioned with a scripture backing! and that is why 'we' the onlookers do not follow what they say, but what they do.
The same applies to the catholics, they are taught to dissmiss any querry to their act or behavior to an image by sharply denying that theyare worshipping a God-forbidden image as clealy spelt out in the bible.....they start by riddiculing your objection by saying,'what are you talking about?'

catholics solid stance is, “No, we do not worship Mary!”(that is how they are trained to respond) However, the evidence is overwhelmingly against them. But before the evidence is presented, I’d like to cut at the root of this dispute.

Now lets reason from their own perspective and you will see that catholics are found wanting based on the available evidences ; lets go;

The apostle Peter, who is alleged to be the first pope,did he mention Mary in any of his biblical letters. Nor is there any record in any of the other letters, such as Acts of the Apostles, that Peter ever referred to Mary. Not only did he not mention her, directly or indirectly, but zero nothing is said by any apostle about the need to venerate or worship her. This fact speaks volumes against the Catholic’s view of Mary.

Why? Why did Peter fail to mention the “Virgin Mary”? Surely if all popes worshipped Mary and leaned on her for salvation, and they have, as the evidence will show, and if Peter was the first pope, why does he not praise and adore Mary in the same vein as other popes? The question demands an answer.

The Late Pope John Paul II Worshipped Mary & Relied On Her For Salvation

If the pope is the role model and instructor and guide for Catholics, and he is, and if they are striving to follow in his footsteps, and they are, they give the same level of reverence to Mary as their “Supreme Pontiff.” [size=14pt]It is a documented fact that the late Pope John Paul II relied more on Mary for salvation than on Jesus.[/size]

Pope John Paul made more than 40 pilgrimages to her shrines at Lourdes and Fatima. He wrote in his Apostolic Letter of Oct. 16, 2002, the following words:

[size=14pt]“I entrust this Apostolic Letter to the loving hands of the Virgin Mary, prostrating myself in spirit before her image in the splendid Shrine built for her by Blessed Bartolo Longo, the apostle of the Rosary.”
[/size]
Salvation In Mary & The Rosary!
Embroidered inside all of Pope John Paul’s robes was the phrase, [size=14pt]“Totus tuus sum Maria,” which means, “Mary, I am all yours.”[/size]

The Catholic Rosary concludes:
“HAIL, HOLY QUEEN, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!”

It is of interest when we ponder Roman Catholicism’s popular “15 Promises of Mary.” Among them we find:

“The soul which recommends itself to me [Mary] by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish...I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall…at the moment of death…participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise.”

It is obvious, then, that not only did the late pope worship Mary and place his eternal security in her, but it is equally obvious that “the faithful” follow in his footsteps. When Catholics turn from faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation to trusting Mary and the Rosary, as did Pope John Paul II, they place their eternal salvation in jeopardy, [size=14pt]for Jesus Himself declared, "No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6).
[/size]
If Jesus spoke the truth, and He did, there is zero security and salvation in Mary and the Rosary. In the pope’s “Prayer For The Marian Year,” he prayed:

[size=14pt]“Sustain us, O Virgin Mary, on our journey of faith and obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation.”
[/size]

BERNIMOORE: @Ubenedictus

what history are you talking about,talking about cannon,scriptures etc i think i have contributed a lot on those treads, but something stands out,your (catholics)added unknown scriptures i.e the maccabees are 'not sacred scriptures' but rather are confirmed part of apocrypha!but rather the 66 books of the bible are all 'confirmed sacred scriptures' and the catholics own added scriptures like maccabbees and the rest unsacred scriptures 'taught contradictory things from the sacred scriptures'like purgatory! that violently contradict ezekiel 18:4 that 'soul that sinneth dies' but purgatory says they dont! but rather survives the body, God is not of confussion,but rather the catholics are 'bunch of confusionist' boxing theirself to a corner with 'pagan scriptures' associated with soul torture,...'test every spirit wheather they originate from God' was penned down as an instruction in the book of titus, and how do we test, its by comparing and reconcilling the truths in the bible,which catholics apocrypha was short of,but promote paganisn and idol worshiping!

Logicboy03: Chattel slavery is there. clean and clear- selling of people.


Anyways there is no need to argue much. Other forms of slavery are quite okay for you and the church.


And you have the nerve to call yourself a free african? Your a slave to a slave master religion

Logicboy03: Lies again.


Dont let me even get started with Thomas Acquinas!

Boomark: At least those you are calling blind have shown you that the woman you believed to be Mary for many years is no longer Mary. Catholics used it in a book to prove their rosary.

SMH For ubenedictus.

Logicboy03: Why do you lie?


The catholic church in that canon supported people selling other people. Chattel slavery. I am yet to see where the rights of a slave are established in the canon. Keep lying.

Logicboy03:
Chattel slavery
Chattel slavery, so named because people are treated as the personal property, chattels, of an owner and are bought and sold as commodities, is the original form of slavery



Explain how selling a human being as allowed in the canon is different Chattel slavery