₦airaland Forum

What you're doing is trying to teach me Macroeconomics 101; I already done that 6years ago. Trust me, by the grace of God, I know my economics very well.


Not all commodities are priced in $$$, however, I would rather you phrase it as $$$ is the most common trading currency in the world. In other words, the $$$ trades a higher volume, besides no one is asking where whether they are priced in $$$ or not. There are other commodities that are priced in Euro and GBP; nevertheless, that's not what I'm talking about

Again let me rephrase, according to my example, you are willing trying to convince me that a $0.55 increase is due to inflation ? I then asked how much % inflation are we talking about again ? While inflation is directly relative to price of goods and services, inflation does not account for all changes in prices of commodities, it could simply be a relative price adjustment. I agree that price is an inflation determinant, but the question is how much is the cost inflation on a goods and service from the real cost. In order words, if you were to segregate the real cost from inflation cost, how much does difference in price levels attribute to inflation? For instance using my example, using current inflation rate or a modest rate, how much of that $0.55 differential change is inflation cost and how much is just a relative price adjustment?

I am not sure if there are specific ways to measure isolated cases such as this, especially considering the fact that several other factors are involved such as cost of goods and profit margins. The inflation rates itself bears more on overall economy than a single isolated sector. Several sectors react sharply than others in terms of prices when inflation is concerned. For instance, Gold is likely to experience a sharper increase in price than Beans. The inflation rates itself is measured using a basket of goods using a metric known as the Consumer Price Index. However, you are likely to know more than i do on this, if you do, I will be more than happy to learn!

virgo:
'
Dear "violent", before the news of this deal got here on NL, I read it extensively and I know what is involved. No amount of your "intelligent" calculations and economic evaluations can change whitewash these deals to give them a good look. The alarm was raised by a firm in the US that you people are being bought for the cheap, and you Africans in Nigeria are acting like you speak English better than the Queen of England.

I am not going to waste my time getting into an argument with you. Out of all the intellectual balderdash most of you are presenting in favour of this 21st century invasion, all I can see is a bunch of African sheeple seeing nothing wrong with the way your people who are already being screwed over by IMF and its sister agencies, are being given up to be further deprived of their own lands. No wonder, the whites always find willing accomplices during their misadventures in Africa. Like one said on the CNN website during the Halliburton scandal, "you play dirty in a dirty place." PATHETIC!

You haven't actually said much in relation to my earlier post, especially considering the fact that they consist of begging questions that needed desperate answers from folks like you who happen to be in the know before the news even got out. . . .and that folks like us who only love to brandish our English could be saved from our ignorance.

One begins to question how liberated and exposed some of you are when issues like this are being discussed.
For some of you, If Dangote had bought the entire Uganda with a single check, he's just being an astute businessman who  recognize value and simply made a gun for it. . .but if some guy in Texas think it will be a nice thing to own a direct exposure to African markets, you come out with your sharp knives asking for his head----nothing but his head is good enough to appease the gods for attempting a 21st century invasion!!!!. . . .but if you receive any less treatment, they are being racist!!!

For some of you, the concept of the world being a global village will never register in your pea sized brain, you wonder why China opens its doors wide enough for investors to conduct transactions, you never quite understand why London is referred to as the world's business capital, the concepts of wall street never sleeping is far too complex for you to grab, and with your mouths left ajar, you simply watched while the rest of the world advance, far ahead of you, when asked, your answer?-----"Let's prevent 21st century invasion, they are coming for our Lands, they are coming for our oil, the white man is planning to steal away our kids!!!-----how lame can you get?"

It's quite relieving that you wouldn't have time to argue with common me, that's like saving me a lot of time trying to explain the concepts of open markets, economics of supply and demand, global trade etc etc to someone who in all probability is least likely to understand even the simplest things.

It's even more amusing that the so called West are doing more than several of you multiply together to eradicate poverty and disease from Africa.  you love it when the make donations in billions of pound sterlings to Haiti, Somalia and Niger, but you can't stand them investing their monies in this economies---- very fair don't you think?

Many of you arguing blindly probably don't even know that Ethopia is the 10th poorest country in the world with only a GDP of 700 million dollars.  Their Agriculture business has suffered serious lowdown because of poor cultivation techniques and frequent drought and  80% of its population live on breadline. Most of you sit back in your comfortable homes and watch this economy plunge into the dark of darkness, but when you hear investors planning to throw in millions of dollars, you take to the internet and start a cyberwar----now, that's what i call PATHETIC!!!!!!

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=689028.msg8513668#msg8513668 date=1308007446]I will be glad to hear that you know more about this issue than Lester Brown. Google him bro.[/quote]No one can ever lay claim to being an authority on issues like this.  There will always be arguments and counter arguments, for every Lester Brown, there are several other renowned economists or investors who share opposing views.  In as much as i can't lay claim to ever coming an inch in measures of quality of experience when Lester Brown is mentioned, i work in an industry where i have constructive arguments with some of the best minds ever, and I am positive that i have gained an experience good enough for me to come up with my own ideas and stand by them.

and if this is regarding your initial statement, i realize i might have gone out of line by stating that you're wrong.

ola olabiy:
Those companies are NOT strategic.

Why PREVENT the sales of a company (POTASH C.)? That's the question

Chei!  see defense ooo!   Candian's largest steel maker is not strategic!!! \

Dude, the sale of Potash C was close, but investors in the company refused to give up their majority stakes, the whole drama led to an extent where the stock price of Potash on the exchange was higher than the price it was being bidded for by the BHP, a phenomenon which is always rare in the history of acquisitions.  Canadian government did not save Potash, it's shareholders did!!!

In the past, rumours of Chinese companies' interest in acquiring majority stakes in Canadian natural-resource companies have prompted sharp negative reactions. If a potential Chinese buyer were to materialise, public opposition might well lead Stephen Harper, the Conservative prime minister, to disqualify it on national-security grounds, by declaring that potash is a strategic resource that needs to remain in Canadian hands. In 2005, CNOOC, a Chinese company, withdrew its bid for Unocal, an American oil firm, after the United States Congress voted to refer the offer to the president to guarantee it did not pose a threat to national security. Time will tell if Canadians, who pride themselves on being more worldly and open-minded than their southern neighbours, can resist the lure of such selective protectionism.

The following are Canadian companies that have been acquired by foreign investors.

-------- MacMillan Bloedel, B.C. forestry giant acquired by Weyerhaeuser for US$2.45 billion in 1999

-----Eaton's, at one time Canada's largest retailer, with a history going back to 1869, purchased by Sears in 1999, and closed in 2000

-------Seagram distillery and entertainment conglomerate, sold to Vivendi Universal and Pernod Ricard in 2000

-------Corel, a software and programming company, taken over by Vector Capital in August 2003.

--------- CP Ships Ltd., acquired by the parent company of Hapag-Lloyd Container Line, TUI AG, in an all-cash transaction worth $2.3 billion US in 2005
------- Molson Breweries, one of the oldest companies in Canada acquired by Coors, in 2005.

----------Terasen Inc., previously BC Gas (a public utility company), sold to American-owned energy giant Kinder Morgan for $6.9 billion. The deal was approved by the B.C. Utilities Commission[b] despite 8,000 letters of protest, 2005[/b]. Terasen was subsequently sold to Newfoundland-based Fortis Inc. in 2007.

--------Canadian Pacific hotels the owner of many of Canada's most historic hotel properties (operating under the name Fairmont Hotels and Resorts since 1999) is sold to Colony Capital, LLC of California and Kingdom Holding Company of Saudi Arabia for $3.9 billion, in January 2006.

-------- Dofasco, Canada's largest steel maker acquired by Luxembourg-based Arcelor, January 2006.

-------- Noranda (mining company) & Falconbridge Ltd., purchased by Swiss mining company Xstrata in 2006. Noranda had earlier been a target of state-owned China Metals Corp., but had backed out in 2005 amid public concern in Canada of Chinese state control of such a major company.

----------ATI Technologies, Canada's graphics chip maker, acquired by Advanced Micro Devices, July 2006.

------- Stelco, Canada's last major independent steel producer, taken over by United States Steel in August 2007.

--------Alcan purchased by Rio Tinto in 2007.

--------Addax Petroleum, one of Canada's 9 fortune 2000 2009 oil and gas companies was acquired by sinopec of China for C$8.27 billion in June 2009 and approved by the Chinese government on August 12, 2009.

virgo:
Eish, some people are talking investment. Lol. Investment indeed! You buy land the size of France for peanuts and some Africans scream investment. No wonder they bought able bodied Africans for mirrors during the slave trade. SHAME!!!

LMAO!!!

do you know exactly how much was paid?
how much will be paid in subsequent years?
was it an outright sale or a lease?
what the size of the land is?
the conditions of the land?

For instance, if i buy a land in an area for 3 million, chances are i might have to spend an additional 15 million in ensuring that the land is fit for use. . .you should learn not to be too brash without knowing exactly what is involved in the deal

Those are experts speaking not conspiracy theorists. I doubt you know more about the issue than those folks.

and how do you know this?

Dude, Inflation plays it's own part besides, how much % inflation are we talking about again? Obviously when you pricing, you have to account for inflation cost but my point is inflation isn't the problem . Inflation doen not change daily, so when I go to the grocery store to buy bread, bread I bought for $2.50 is now $3.05, are you trying to convince me that the extra $0.55 is inflationary cost?

Here's the breakdown

Commodities are priced in dollars;

An increase in inflation means a decrease in the value of a dollar.

The dollar and commodity prices have an inverse relationship, When dollars decrease in value, commodity prices increase!

if you are giving away large tracts of land without having the ability to produce your own food on a large scale you become vulnerable to those who do grow food  - in this instance the large foreign agri businesses, this means that these countries can hold you to ransom whenever they feell like because they now have a monopoly on the food supply and therefore if these countries decide to put the price of their finished products up you are forced to buy them because you do not have a sufficiently developed domestic agricultural industry.

If you have a company that runs a monopoly market in rice sale.

Let's say I for instance, being the president. I've observed that rice has gone out in supply, i simply declare a ban on exportation of rice. . .what it will mean is that you will have to sell your rice tothe local market, and NO, you simply can't increase your price, cos if you do, investors in the local market will take advantage of that opportunity to import rice and sell at a price that is ridiculously lower than yours. so in essence, it's either you watch your inventory get bigger without turnover or you simply sell at a price that is competitive for market rates.


What many of you guys are failing to realize is that most of these firms, by investing in economies outside their own, face a lot of political risk as well, at the same time, it doesn't make any sense that a company can produce food commodities ----for export only!!. if their is a short supply in local markets!

manny4life:
Did u say already or they it's started, which one? Food prices are on the high now; it's just a matter of time before it skyrockets. I don't know how they will take their lands back, probably use Voodoo I guess

Food prices are on the high simply because inflation is on the high----that's why there's something called economic cycles!!!

Hypothetically, you employ labor, resource et.al to produce a ton of Cocoa for $150.00 per ton and export at that same amount for $150 as a raw material, and when it get to U.S., they sell it for like $300 and if it’s processed, can be sold for up to $500, as you can see they have circumvented the extra $150.00 if exported raw and up to $350.00 if processed. However, if you own your land and trade at a commodity exchange, you will sell at least up to $250.00, that $100 is left for you and vice versa if processed. The same will apply in the taxes

I don't really get what you are trying to explain, but trading on the exchange and taking physical possession are both the same.  A buyer buying at spot price on the exchange will have to pay brokers fee and trading commissions, while someone taking physical possession will have to pay cost of carry. . . .in the end, the laws of one price and arbitrage will eventually force the price at the on the exchange as well as that in physical trading to be the same

cap28:
Do you think europe or america is like nigeria where the masses remain docile even when they are starving?

Westerners are only tolerating the current economic crisis because it hasnt yet hit most of them where it really hurts - in the stomach - do you know that the average westerner doesnt even know what it feels like to go without food for one day talkless of actually being without food for days.

i can assure you that if food shortages start happening in europe or america the masses will go ballistic and there is no way any western govt would  want that to happen, this is why they are hastily making this decision to go into africa and buy up huge tracts of land at the expense of africans.

You have to think economically, my friend.  Everything is priced on the laws of demand and supply.

If agricultural commodities is in short supply in a country, International commodity trading firms NOT the government, will take advantage of the situation and buy from locations where such commodities are surplus to sell at a higher price in locations where the demand is more, the people will get to pay more on the prices of food, more companies will see this opportunity to import and sell food, and they will do just one thing-----seize the opportunity!----this will mean there will be more suppliers in the market, and more likely than not, this will drive the price of commodity to a point where it is reasonably priced!

cap28:
I dont know if you read through the articles or watched any of those videos but these land disposals are going to millionaire investors and not ordinary joes,  if any of these african govts were serious about encouraging local investment it would have subsidised local farmers in africa the way the europeans and americans do with their own farmers, not allow foreigners to come in and buy up land at rock bottom prices.  
Do you even understand the implication of allowing foreigners to own the bulk of your arable land? can you not see that that puts you in a very vulnerable position in terms of providing food for your own people?

How?. . . .If a company owns an arable land where corn is being cultivated on a large scale.  The government can always force such companies to sell to locals by placing a ban on corn exports, that's simple really.

Local farmers will only be able to produce on a very small scale, why else do you suppose that will all the lands available to us in Nigeria, we still import stuffs like rice?

If there are foreign investors that are willing to produce such a commodity in large quantities, and they are asking to buy lands, why the fúck not?

pleep:
Well . . I think it's just the minor detail that all the food produced will be sent to foreign countries. Stop trying to be smart. And yes local people are often bring forced of the land, not in Nigeria but in other countries like Benin and the gambella region of Ethiopia.

This is not only lame but a shallow minded way of thinking!


First, tariffs on exports will generate income for the government of any country!

Second, locals will be employed to work in factories and farms, thus improving the employment situation of the country.

Third, the companies involved are asset management companies, they are in it to make pure profit, how do you suppose they wouldn't sell to the local industries who previously have been spending more to import raw materials to manufacture their goods?

For instance if Cadubury had been importing cocoa from ivory coast, and it had to do spend more on cost of importing cocoa and transporting same to their factories, it only makes sense that a new large scale cocoa farming business in Nigeria will become an instant supplier of cocoa to Cadbury. . . . .why do you suppose this business would prefer to leave a market where it had an established customer for a market where it might have to source new customers?

If Agricultural commodities become scarce globally, does it not make sense that the Nigerian government might place a ban on exportation of certain goods to retain local supply?

common people, stop thinking childishly!!!

While these companies want to make money, I think the central issue is more of a National Food security thing than just looking for new places to make more big money. I think they are seeking new places to gain control over food and water resources.

From what I've read and heard, Several countries are worried about a possible food scarcity in the near future due to massive world population growth and increasing number of "hungry" middle class income earners with extra cash to spend, especially in countries with diminishing access to arable lands in Asia and the Middle east.

So, I see this as an opportunity for us to learn from the past and make sure we gain from their speculation and fear.

There's nothing wrong with their investments, we should welcome it, But we need to be smart about it. Land ownership and the production of both raw and finished goods must be in our favour, else we repeat 1818 (Scramble for Africa) again, albeit in a more subtle way.

We need to welcome these people's money/investments and still find a way to make them dependent consumers and not outright owners. That is where the challenge and hard work would be for us and our leaders. Unfortunately we don't have a coherent land use or land ownership policy in Nigeria. Even our Green revolution/Agric policy is not revolutionary in anyway. It's also not export oriented at all.


BTW, When Americans (Hillary Clinton) start warning Africans about Asians and Arabs, especially when their own Hedge funds and Universities are doing the same thing(buying up land resources)? That should tell us we have no friends in this situation. they are simply competing

We better start playing both sides to suit our own purposes. Only if we have visionary leaders

I think you are a bit wrong here, you assume that these companies are investing in Agriculture to save the US economy once food becomes a scarce commodity- -----WRONG!!!!!!!!!

They invest to make money--simple and pure!. . .they don't give a fúck about America or if America is going to run short of food in the near future.  They are in it simply to make pure absolute returns.

The US economy is fledging, and on the verge of collapse, pension funds have since realized that investing in government bonds might no longer be as safe as they thought it might be, it will also be very dumb to invest in money instruments like t-bills because once the US starts printing out dollars, inflation is likely to wipe out any tangible gains to be made on t-bills.
This therefore mean that Pension funds will have to invest in asset classes that are less susceptible to the fledging US economy, and the only place you can find such asset classes is in Africa, as the African economy is less correlated with the economy of the rest of the world. 

Additionally, agricultural commodities have a long steady pay out rate which is actually a good thing for pension funds in a world where life expectancy has increased and an average person is likely to live longer and thus collect more money as pension.

Food scarcity is actually a good news for those invested in the funds. . . .what else could be?

African traitor heads of state are selling us down the river - they are handing over huge tracts of our land to foreigners for next to nothing as ordinary africans continue to wallow in a state of blissful ignorance:

So why not buy this land yourself and put them to good use?

I seriously don't get the point being made on this thread.

Are people suggesting that if for instance i have an hectare of land for sale, i shouldn't sell it to the highest bidder simply because he's western?

Doesn't it make sense that those lands that are probably uncultivated and under utilized for years are being sold out to people who have the capital to turn those lands into useful purposes?. . . for large scale farming in this case, which will eventually increase the overall production output of the said country?

Are local people being chased away from those lands. . .and then handed over to foreign investors?

There are American country's all spattered across China, Japan, India, Indonesia, why is that whenever poor Africa is mention, people come out in Arms screaming, "Oh they've come for our oil, they've come for our land". . . .and yet, we lack the appropriate capital or technical know how to convert this resources to good use!

If for instance an American company buys a hectare of land that has been uncultivated for years in Ogun state, only to turn the state into an Industrial hub. . . isn't it beneficial for the state as well?

I see nothing here, but pure unnecessary sensationalism!

He added that one of the highlights of the convocation will be the[b] launching of a N5bn endowment fund[/b] for accelerated development of physical infrastructure and capacity development of the institution.

Maybe it's not her financial status, maybe it's her face they avoid!

My advise? go into politics!

^^

It's somewhat obvious that majority of them don't have a sound blueprint on development!  They seem to be only interested in providing free goodies without knowing how to generate revenue or attract investors!

Amosun ought to know that for any business/organization to grow, it's revenue power ought to surpass it's cost of running, not the other way round. When a state is already overburdened with deficits, thanks to mismanagement of the acccursed ex-governor, the wise thing a subsequent governor ought to do on resuming office is to seek out for new ways to generate revenues, not offer services free of charge!

Amosun should be looking at selling assets that are being under utilized and if within his power, privatize certain fractions of his government.  He should also be looking for new means of attracting the interests of new investors to the state, like working in hand with the CBN to provide capital for would be investors!

Right now, I don’t know whether it is proper to be talking to him about his equity contribution when he just lost a job. If I knew for sure he was kicked out due to embezzlement, I would be on his neck because I'l know he has money. Is it possible it could be the certificate forgery thingy?

See the way Nigerians think o!!!!!

emmatok:
Is it until he smash his dad's windshield b4 he can apologies.

So because he is a grown backside man, he can stand-up to his father.

If your dad corrects you, all you need to do is to accept correction.

I'm sorry but i don't get the point.

Are you saying the boy has should apologize to his father even though his father stopped believing in him and threw him out of the house?

Or the boy should apologize because he underperformed the class average, something he probably couldn't have helped?

which of the two do you suppose he should be sorry for?

buzugee:
naija people are crazy. dont try to understand them. the father is the one who needs to apologize for kicking the hapless boy out of home. i mean it does say in the good book to treat your children with respect before expecting it back from them.

i tire oh. . .

emmatok:
OK, sorry for being lil harsh.

His fathers concern is understandable.

All your friend needs to do is apologies to his father.

And promise to do better.

Apologise to his father? did he smash his dad's windshield?

So Third class people can come up with more/better questions than First Class people?

Where in my post did you infer this from?

So you think Nigerian universities should do way with end of semester exams and replace it with what? End of sememter blank papers? At the end of each semester, they should give the students blank papers and tell them to write down questions and they should be graded on the quality of the questions they ask?

They don't have to do away with exams, unfortunately, exams remain one of the principal ways to measure an individual's understanding about a certain subject.

That said, examinations in Nigerian University is one that hardly screen for the best crop of intellects.  Exams are mostly structured in a way that meant that students simply have to remember a certain line or paragraph in their notes to pass or otherwise end up with poor grades.  Lecturers hardly examine the logic behind a candidates answer and most of the time, they are more contented if a candidate returns exactly what is written in their notes word for word!---- that's not education, that's bullshyt!

During my undergraduate days, i only study hard in the week of exam trying to grab as much as i could in my massive brain, in the end, i come out with one of the best grades in my department, far ahead of those who attended classes and took notes. . . .and no, it doesn't mean i understand the basic principles surrounding the topics, i simply did what i had to do simply to make the lecturers happy enough, get good grades, I am happy, my parents are happy---win win!

For my postgrad however, the situation is totally different!. . . .Lecturers give you questions they have no answers to themselves, they simply award marks based on your logic which eventually proves your understanding of the subject matter. Some even ask you questions that are not directly related to the course itself, just to test how broad your understanding is, and how you can relate it with the problem at hand!

Additionally, real intelligent people would perform exceedingly well, whatever field they find themselves.  They are not limited by their understanding of their fields, they instead, are diverse enough to explore the depths of other sectors.  Asking candidates a few questions and expecting them to return to you, the lines in their notes, word for word, is nothing but a sheer wasted efforts.

Hear this, back in my undergrad, i had a lecturer who has been using the same notes for 6 consecutive years, there was a paragraph in the note that had a few spelling errors which eventually took everything out of context. and when he asks questions in exams, student return exactly what was written in their notes, and the lecturer marks it right!!!!!!

Is that how you define intelligence my friend?

Wizardofoz:
If you cant do something as simple as that, then why should you be trusted with something more intellectually demanding?

I dont get you point, if person A cant answer a simple question, it must be because he is more intelligent than that?

Interesting!

The smartest people that ever lived were called smart not because they were able to come up with answers but because they were able to come up with questions!

Questions that opens up avenue for new studies to be conducted, questions that challenged old conventions, questions that challenge the logic surrounding an idea.

I wouldn't hire anyone simply because they were able to remember what their lecturers mentioned in class, . . .what if their lecturers are dumb?

chamber2:
Hmmm, mate.I only meant that your post did not differ remarkably from my previous post stating that the guys with 1st class succeeded against all odds and that the third class holders are not necessarily inferior to the 1st class.

wasn't referring to you

Wizardofoz:
Do you have a thyroid problem?

Did you graduate with a third class?. . .
damn, should i have to explain that if i make a post it doesn't necessarily mean I'm talking about myself?

chamber2:
A caged lion is no different from the goat in the street.When the right environment is not made available for the 1st class guys to function, the result is not always encouraging.Take a stock of those who made 1st class and then come back and give report.About 70% of them are doing excellently well in whatever endeavour they found themselves.Them, take an inventory of those with third class, then compare your result.

1st or third, what is important is the individual who possess it not the grade.But that does not mean we should discredit guys who worked very hard to make a 1st or 2.1 against all odds.

I beg to differ on this opinion!

Having a first class in a Nigerian university is hardly a measure of raw intelligence. . .it's  however  a measure of an unrelenting determination to succeed against all odds, with some extra memory capacity!

Variables such as street smartness, business acumen, human relations, ability to communicate effectively, ability to persuade and convince even the most cynical of all beings,  a diplomatic approach, a logical and thematic approach to problem solving. . . .etc etc which are hardly measured in measured by the class of your degree, has proven to be more sustainable drivers to long term success.

Many people make first class in Nigeria simply by reading a page over and over again, only to write the same word for word, in an exam, not questioning arguments or logic, they simply return what's given in their textbooks-----that's not exactly a sound measure of intelligence, just a good measure of memory capacity!

There are worse things in life than having a 2:2, like having Papillary Cancer . . .

Isn't it the man that gave up his salary for free education. . .I laugh in Imolish!


Now the freedom of people to stage a peaceful protest is being denied by someone who intends to foster democracy in the state.

It's more disgusting to think the principal reasons people were probably sacked from their jobs was because those people were appointed by a political  opponent and were not in support of his governorship bid!

Nigerians will never learn

Odunnu:
Very hilarious but coming from sahara, I wont even laff. Those guys are so antiGEJ.

lol, you are holding yourself from laughing cos it's coming from Sahara? common babe!!!