₦airaland Forum

OnlyDeCapPlease:
Tony "Dodgy Dosier" Blair is a disgraced politician. No one takes him seriously in the UK, even his own party labour where he has almost lost all his clout. Let him just focus on his paper chase (he is the richest ex pm in living memory) and stop trying to seek relevance.

This Afghan withdrawal was initiated by Donald Trump who did a deal with Taliban and ignored the Afghan government. Part of the deal was that 5000 captured Taliban fighters would be freed. Donald Trump's government put tremendous pressure on the Afghans to release these fighters and set a date for early this year for complete withdrawal. Joe Biden EXTENDED this date to August. Donald Trump's government cut the military in Afghanistan down. Eventually it was only about 3000 troops left in Afghanistan, and then it was further cut down this year again. Part of the deal with the Taliban was that they will not take over any regional city but they did exactly that as the NATO soldiers withdraw. Every one could see this happening weeks ago and nobody said anything, including Tony Blair.

Why are they all crying wolf now, looking for who to blame when they know EXACTLY what was going to happen?

Abeg helep me ask Trump worshippers if their personal God and saviour consulted UK, the allies or NATO before signing a deal with the Taliban and withdrawing most US troops?

EgunMogaji2:
100% in agreement with a withdrawal but 100% in disagreement with the mode of withdrawal.

Can you please educate us on the mode of withdrawal you would have agreed with after US combat troops was reduced to 2500 soldiers?

ecolime:
In other words, Biden is a slowpoke

The world misses the Presidents President.- J.T Trump

No where in the article was Biden mentioned or referenced in the article.

This is was Tony Blair said;

He said the decision was made "in obedience to an imbecilic slogan about ending 'the forever wars'".

We all know who made the slogan about ending 'the forever wars'

GardenOfGod:
Do you think former President Tump would have been this embarrassing to the world?
Your guess is as good as mine.

Trump was a worse embarrassment to the world. The world laughed at president Trump on many occasions. The withdrawal of US troops from Syria was as bad, so much so that Erdogan was on top of the kurds a couple of weeks after US withdrawal.

Besides the decision to withdraw all US troops was made by President Trump and had already withdrawn most US troops out of Afghanistan by the time President Biden took over.

The Taliban wants to show the world they are now reformed, at least for the time being. They know they would need foreign aid and recognition to run a successful government in Afghanistan. I doubt they would want to begin their rule with a conflict with the UK or the US.

They have allowed female foreign journalists to move around unmolested. They have been granting interviews and press conferences. It shows they want to create a more tolerant organization. I know they would run a strict theocratic dictatorship, I doubt they would be as harsh or repressive as when they were overthrown in 1991.

DonroxyII:
I see your efforts in trying to drum the warning drums but unfortunately 99% do not hear and will not hear even if you drum from now till eon times and it is not as if they didn't hear but due to selfish interest engineered by genetic disorder and immediate gain and pleasure they ain't seeing what you are seeing because they don't share same processing acumen as yours .... unless you will go to the field yourself and become their generalasimo but be rest assured the people you are trying to safe will be the very first to kill you not War

That's the Irony of Southern Nigeria especially your Southeast...... Did you see what happened with PIB signed into law and only 3% allocated to Oil Producing Nations .... You wonder why your senators and honourables were watching .... Nah .... They got to them and got them pocketed either through promised of juicy positions, oversights or threats..... Either way .... ... They are handicapped ..... That's Power .... Python can Handicap Chicken !!


The Slavery DNA still abound in the bloods of generations of slaves till tomorrow ... and nothing can be done about it unless they themselves collectively are ready to change and ready for change ........ You can't help those who don't want to be helped........ no matter what, your efforts shall be wasted and they will even serve you up ....

I learnt that lessons myself the hardway..... That's how I got to know how many prophet of God didn't survived because they got betrayed not by war with enemies but by the very people they were sacrificing for ..... I decided not to be a Messiah myself...........

The only Language of War is War and weak ones shall be consumed !!

It just saddens to see your own very people being myopic and not seeing the largest pictures .... But if Cows could see the movements and strategic positioning of tigers, the stealth movements.... Instead of attacking the tigers and/or lions enmassed .... they will just scattered themselves......

The people antagonising you are not more than you but because of dishonesty, lack of love and cohesion ... Lack of Loyalty they shall all be consumed .... They are meant to be ruled or consumed!! Generations of Slave ....

You wonder how Fulani uses one stick to control 100 cows .... just one stick even by barely 10yo kids ..... They are Rulers !!

How could antelopes believe Lions will rescue them from Crocodile ..... .... Antelopes claimed Lion belongs to Jesus .... Crocodiles belongs to Mohammed .....

Antelopes is just food to Carnivores ... all Carnivores ... The day they know that, the day they become Champions too and have a voice on the Global Decision Table !!

The redded quotes are deep, in fact too deep for black Africans to understand.

Selfish interest and immediate gain and pleasure is the bane of the black skin. I believe it is ingrained in the DNA. All we love to do is to dance, worship and merry. We are ready to sacrifice our future to quick temporary pleasures. It's this genetic defect that made slavery possible. It also made colonisation and neo colonisation possible.

You certainly can't help those who don't want to be helped. If you insist of free a black Africans from poverty and neo colonisation, he will probably hate you, and deliver you to those you are trying to free them from.

Lions are the west and crocodiles are the middle east and we the antelopes. The irony is that the lions and the crocodiles have cooperated in order to share the antelopes.

Ibime:
America did all the work, threw away $2trln, China inherited the trade

I said earlier that US is terrible at using its super power status to further it's economic and strategic goals. But Americans in general and prideoflincoln2 will not agree with me. China will now reap from US blood and efforts. The US should never have let Afghanistan go. It would have been a strategic position to contain China, Russia and Iran. US companies should have exploited Afghanistan's mines and resources and restrict their poppy trade. Just hope Afghanistan does not go back to being the poppy capital of the world.

socialmediaman:
Trump was even the person who signed an executive order for American troops to leave the country by January 2021, and people were applauding him based on his America first slogan. Now the same people suddenly love Afghans more than Americans and are making politics out of it
Cc seyz91

Trump had already virtually withdrawn most combat troops from Afghanistan before leaving office leaving only 2500 service men.

Pentagon says US has dropped to 2,500 troops in Afghanistan
By ROBERT BURNS and LOLITA C. BALDOR
January 15, 2021

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. military has met its goal of reducing the number of troops in Afghanistan to about 2,500 by Friday, a drawdown that may have violated a last-minute congressional prohibition.

The reduction could complicate matters for the incoming Biden administration, which must determine how to handle a Trump administration commitment to the Taliban to remove all U.S. military, intelligence and contractor personnel from Afghanistan by May as a move to spur peace negotiations. Those talks are in an early stage.

Senior U.S. commanders are skeptical of the Taliban’s stated commitment to peace, although they have said they can accomplish their mission in Afghanistan with 2,500 troops.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-afghanistan-taliban-united-states-16cc1dd5b2f74d463311d212ad0d215a

Biden had no choice but to withdraw the remaining 2500 men.

basilico:
Its hard living the life of a Trump hater. The agreement. takes care of terrorism support first, then moves on how the two should engage in dialogue.
At the time Afghan has 4 times more soldiers than Taliban and state of the art hardware .
How this amounts to surrender is stuff left wing media is pushing on guile minds.

The talks had started between the Taliban and govt in Doha

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54255862

Clearly about how far Islamic laws should be implemented was a hot topic.

The agreement signed was premised o. the US pulling out within 14 months if the Taliban held up the agreement.

on this I would urge you to read Wikipedia, the leftist editors have nit slanted it as of now to malign Trump. Article sounds factual with no bias.

Please explain how the agreement on not supporting terrorism can be upheld? If the Taliban harbours another Osama bin Laden, what other measures can the US take outside another invasion ( after series of sanctions). Read the full "agreement" and tell me what the US gained from the agreement.

What other talks did you expect between the Taliban and former Afghan government when the US had already surrendered the country to Taliban on February 29 2020? The Afghan government were not part of the original agreement, so any other agreement between the Taliban and the Afghan government is a ruse. The actual war was between the US and the Taliban, the Afghan government was a prop of the US.

Quit lying. There was no ifs in the agreement. The Trump administration had made up its mind to withdraw by May 31 come what may. It was a campaign promise he was determined to keep.

Pentagon says US has dropped to 2,500 troops in Afghanistan
By ROBERT BURNS and LOLITA C. BALDOR
January 15, 2021

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. military has met its goal of reducing the number of troops in Afghanistan to about 2,500 by Friday, a drawdown that may have violated a last-minute congressional prohibition.

The reduction could complicate matters for the incoming Biden administration, which must determine how to handle a Trump administration commitment to the Taliban to remove all U.S. military, intelligence and contractor personnel from Afghanistan by May as a move to spur peace negotiations. Those talks are in an early stage.

Senior U.S. commanders are skeptical of the Taliban’s stated commitment to peace, although they have said they can accomplish their mission in Afghanistan with 2,500 troops.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-afghanistan-taliban-united-states-16cc1dd5b2f74d463311d212ad0d215a

benalvino3:
Everyone or most people want the pull out but not like this. All of you magically or rightfully say this is inevitable, how come Biden and his generals don't see it? What did they do to take mitigate this?

They could have just come out saying the truth to begin with.

Address the world and say what is going to happen.

Some of you pushing conspiracy here, Russia and China will always enter where America left for strategic reasons.

Biden is a disaster

I posted the agreement of February 29 2020 to show you that the Trump administration had already handed Afghanistan over to the Taliban. Trump had already reduced US forces in the country to about 2500 troops. You know that 2500 troops cannot hold the country, Kabul maybe but not the whole of Afghanistan.

What the generals did not see was the speed at which the US trained Afghan military capitulated once the remaining US troops left. They thought that it would have taken at least a month of fighting before the Taliban would eventually take Kabul, which they felt would have given them enough time to evacuate the embassy and U.S. citizen. They did not envisage that the whole country and Kabul would fall within 1 week.

If Biden is a disaster, Trump was a catastrophe.

PrideofLincoln1:
Wirinet, you were disagreeing with me about the pull out yesterday. President Biden is in a hard spot with the situation at hand in Afghanistan and understandably so because the three Presidents before him including Obama that i love should have done what Biden just did. It's a wrong place to be for twenty years. After $2 Trillion and thousands of young lives lost, Americans are overwhelmingly against staying in Afghanistan when majority of Afghans don't even like the so called "Infidels" in their country. It might not be the best way to pull out but it's the right thing to do after twenty years. These Jihadists and Mujahedeens do not believe in Western Style Democracy and they prefer their Sharia Laws and that's why there's no resistance to Taliban by the Afghan Army with all the armaments America left for them. Thankfully that we can redirect our money to fix America because we can't be the policeman of the world.

I don't really see it as a disagreement. I see it more as a difference in perspective. I was pointing out that the US goes into these military adventures with no clear objective or clear exit strategy, and they all always end up in disaster, ie Vietnam, Bosnia, Iraq and now Afghanistan. Even South Korea is a disaster waiting to happen. The minute US forces withdraw from South Korea, the North would over run thr country in less that 2 years. I am saying the US should start identifying its economic and strategic objectives along with an exit strategy before going into any military conflict, especially the invasion of another country.

basilico:
This was the agreement.


The February 29, 2020 peace
agreement struck by the Trump
administration and the Taliban
contained four parts:
1. "Guarantees and enforcement
mechanisms" to prevent Afghanistan
from being used as a terrorist base
from which to launch attacks on the
U.S. and it allies.
2. "Guarantees, enforcement
mechanisms, and announcement of a
timeline for the withdrawal of all
foreign forces from Afghanistan."
3. After the first two conditions were
met, The Taliban would start intra-
Afghan negotiations with the Afghan
government, which took place in Doha,
Qatar.
4. A permanent and comprehensive
ceasefire would be an item on the
agenda of the intra-Afghan dialogue
and negotiations.
"The four parts above are interrelated
and each will be implemented in
accordance with its own agreed
timeline and agreed terms. Agreement
on the first two parts paves the way for
the last two parts," the written
agreement said.

This was not an agreement, it was a surrender. The US surrendered to the Taliban on February 29 2020 and effectively handed over Afghanistan to the Taliban.


The US released 5,000 Taliban fighters along with its leader. Shebi the US says they don't negotiate with terrorists?

See a screenshot of the agreement below with emphasis on the bolded section. You will see that it was a complete surrender, with the only Condition being that the Taliban guarantees that a Taliban controlled Afghanistan would not be used as a terrorist base from which to launch attacks on the U.S. and it allies.

How the US will enforce the guarantee once she withdraws all troops is a mystery to me.the the US population would definitely not support a return of US troops to Afghanistan should another Osama bin Laden take refuge in the countery.

Nothing Biden would have done to stop or reverse the process without huge political fall out. Biden's only fault was underestimating the strength of the Taliban and overestimating the strength of the US trained and equipped Afghan military.

PrideofLincoln1:
Easy for yoy to sit in your village and type your junk. I think Nigeria has a Peace Keeping mission that served in Liberia and Sudan. Why don't you petition your Bubu to send his military to Afghanistan to help and i hope you can carry M15 too so that yoy can join them. You see in your little corner typing basura not knowing what's on ground in America.

Liberia and Sudan did not have rabid hatred for Nigeria. Liberia and Sudan did not harbour Islamic fundamentalists that can plan and carry out attacks on Nigeria. Liberia and Sudan did not have an agenda to spread Islam and sharia all around world. Nigeria did not invade Liberia and Sudan, we went there on peace keeping mission to stop the country into degenerating into chaos. They never considered Nigeria as an enemy.

Let's see how these pan out 10 years from now.

benalvino3:
No, The same result would not have happened. Trump will not watch taliban stroll in. He already did it before. He signed a peace deal and Taliban was breaking the deal so he bombed them just 11 days after he signed it. we knew this was going to happen before biden took out the troops. the thing is biden did not bother to do anything to at least slow down the Taliban conquest.

This is a "Heads I win, Tails you lose"situation. If Biden did not follow through with Trump's plan to pull all U.S. troops from Afghanistan, Republicans and their supporters will blame him for continuing to waste American lives and money on a "meaningless" war. If a US soldier is killed in Afghanistan on the Eve of the next electionz (whether mid term or general elections), it will cost the democrats lots of political capital.

If on the other hand Biden pull out and Taliban takes over and start wrecking havoc on US interests, the same Republicans would blame Biden for pulling out too soon, and blame him for not reversing the Trump's pull out order or delaying it.

basilico:
Can't civilize people who dont want.
West should let China have a go. Afghan had always been a death knell for expansionists from time immemorial.
Today's world demands civility when it comes to conquering, a trait communists dont have.

You can. South Americans tribes were "civilized" against their will. Even the Igbos were "civilized" against their will (read Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart. It only times time, re-education and some degree of force.

basilico:
Call me names. The western allies went there to civilize the Afghans who have a different perspective.Trying to be nice and play by the rules of war will never work. The Chinese don't play by the rules set by western armies. Western armies have lawyers and media cameras in the front lines to verify no war crimes are being breached.
If the Chinese invade, the Talibans would be disappeared never to be heard of again.

Be nice to people who fight attrition wars , with the ICC being on watch for war crimes And you will waste human and monetary resources trying to pacify such antagonists.

Let China invade and close our eyes, Reagan was fighting communists , he armed the Taliban mujahedeen and they sent Russkies back in body bags by yhe thousands till the Russians went broke. He gave them Stinger missiles that Rambo the pilot knew how to avoid

China should be encouraged to invade Afghanistan and exploit all the mineral sources. They will start exporting the rare minerals in less than a year.Afghan is mineral rich.

As I said apart from your deitification of Trump and ready to defend any word he utters as divine truth, we agree on most other issues. I have hated Trump since the early 90s. While at school a fellow room mate loved Trump so much he gave me his book "The Art of The Deal" after reading it dislike the personality he displayed in the book. I saw him as someone who believes in using dishonest mean to achieve his goals. I followed him since then. So i am not like most cult worshippers who only started following Trump after he declared his intention to run for presidency.

If it was China that invaded Afghanistan, I am sure by now most Afghans would be speaking Mandarin, and in about 50 years, most wpuld have converted to atheism. That was also how ancient Rome invaded and conquered other people. They not only conquered the land, they also conquered the mind - language, culture and religion. You automatically became a Roman. Britain also employed the same principle to expand their empire. Once they conquer you, you become English pledging allegiance to the Queen/King.

The US should have learnt how to completely conquer people - land, mind and soul before embarking on a military invasion.

basilico:
El Al airlines allowed to land in Qatar and fly over Saudia airspace is one part of the deal.
Bad thing huh?

That's a business between Qatar and Saudi Arabia deal and not a peace deal. Besides there were no hostilities or conflict between Qatar and Saudi.

MaziAlaye:
Lmao Trump was nominated for 3 Nobel prizes for his policies regarding the Middle East and in even places they said could never happen but chief wirinet said there was no peace deals.

Anyone can nominate any other person for Nobel Peace Prize. Tens of people are nominated every year, it doesn't mean Jack.

Now can I see details of the peace deal.

MaziAlaye:
So called "educated" idiots mocked the middle eastern peace deal the "orange" man made possible. Now look what's happening in Afghanistan under "no mean tweet" president

The was no middle east peace deal. What there was was middle east business deal. If the "Orange" man proposed any middle east peace deal involving the main participants in the middle east conflict, please share it with us.

PrideofLincoln1:
You are wrong. The United States didn't fail, Afghanistan failed. Are we supposed to stay their for eternity. Let the Afghans manage their affairs. American taxpayers including yours truly are fed up propping this Government that are corrupt and they do not want to help each other. After $2 Trillion and over 2.500 Americans dead in twenty years, i guess we should stay there forever. American infrastructure needs to be be upgraded and let Afghanistan and Iraq fix their countries. Like i said earlier, they can kill each other off in Afghanistan like they have been doing for ages as long as they don't bring their madness to my country.

I vehemently disagree with you. The Afghan debacle is one of the greatest failures in US foreign policy. Just like in Iraq, the US went into Afghanistan without any clear objective or agenda outside getting Osama bin Laden for the 911 attack. No long time strategy.

The US should have lead her allies for have a longer presence in Afghanistan - maybe 50 years or beyond, until the present generation of die hard Islamic fundamentalists die out. The British were in Nigeria and Ghana for close to 100 years. You cannot significantly change the mindset of a people in 20 years.

In 20 years, the $2 trillion and 2,500 dead would pale into insignificance when compared with the havoc an Islamic fundamentalist Taliban can wreck on US and it's allies, along with their interests.

On geo-political strategic levels the Afghanistan withdrawal was a disaster. Afghanistan is situated mid way between Russia, China and Iran. A strong US presence there would have been a very stategic position. Now I am sure China would rush in and create an alliance with the Taliban. The incoming Taliban government would need money to run its government and China is always willing to loan rogue governments money - with conditions attached. Imagine the anti west alliance of China, Russia, Iran and now Afghanistan. It would be more difficult to rein in Iran.

Throughout history, countries invade other countries for exploitation or for strategic reason most times at huge financial and human costs. The did not exploit its advantageous positions in all its military adventures. They are too impatient and usually give up after a couple of decades. We all now know that the best way to defeat the US military is just hold out for 1 or 2 decades and they will run off with their tails between their legs.

Pelecius:
Let me put it more in context, since you said earlier that you don't have problem with what he said.
The universe we observe has at its bottom no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference. … DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is. And we dance to its music
In such thinking, humans are part of (the product of) this universe of no GOOD OR EVIL. And Just like bacteria, they have DNA which NEITHER KNOWS NOR CARES (that is, still blind and indifferent).

I leave that to you to make your conclusion

Gbam! That's is a truism that can only be revealed through attaining Buddhahood - enlightenment. The universe just is. It does not care about anyone or anything. It just trod along according to its own dictates. That the universe revolves around a single puny individual on a puny village in a puny planet revolving around a puny sun in a puny galaxy is the epitome of egocentricism. The secret to success is to tune in and flow with the ebb and flow of the Universe.

LordReed:
Next time I will acknowledge so that it's clear.

Now to try and understand lemme illustrate, if I said "Christianity permits slavery" what would you think was the implication of that statement?

Also look into the implications of saying "Christianity permits incestuous rape", in relation to lots daughters getting their father drunk, raped him and got pregnant for him, all without his consent.

While at it, look into the implications of the bible supporting scam/419/yahoo yahoo, in relation to Jacob scamming their father Israel to steal Esau's birthright. Maybe that's where Hushpuppi got the inspiration to use deceit to steal millions of dollars from people.

As I always say to those who have broken free of the shackles of religion - WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD.

indadi:
My Dad called me this evening to tell me the essence of praying. The thing is that I don't believe praying solves anything Atleast to me. the day I stopped believing and started working more on myself, I found out that things started getting better for me than those who goes to the Church and Mosques.

Prayer is a very useful tool for achieving whatever goals you set for yourself. The problem is that the Muslim prayer and current Christian prayer is antithetical to personal and even spiritual growth. It mainly consists of noise and useless mantra only designed to make adherents more susceptible to hypnosis and subconscious manipulations. Real spiritually abhors noise and emphasizes quiet contemplation and meditation. Learn the art of meditation, contemplation and imagination. With these you can reach the stars.

When I think about a lot of things I have read and what I have experienced I feel like I have always been deceived all my life.

The Pastors and Prophets with their fake miracles or the Boko Haram and their suicide with the reasons of going to heaven to get virgins.

Christianity and Islam thrives on deceit and threats (and sometimes physical violence) to get converts and keep them in line. They employ the concept of stick and carrot.

One thing I learnt lately was that the concept of heaven or paradise was created to make people lose the natural fear of death when going into battle. If the person going into battle believes he will enjoy his wildest fantasies if he dies for the cause - unlimited virgins in the case of Muslims and unlimited material things in the case of christisns. He will gladly take a sword or bullet or even a bomb while smiling.

I currently live with them though I plan on moving to my own place by the end of this year or early next year.

I really want to tell them in a polite way so they can accept my way.

My Dad won't accept this, as he believes that it is God or nothing.

No need to tell your dad anything. What's the point? You will only make him sad and it might strain your relationship. Just say you have heard when ever he preaches and continue with your life. He will eventually get it that you don't care after a while.

You are even lucky he is a Christian, if he were a fundamentalist Muslim, he will be obligated to put an end to your life in the service of Allah. So no need to rock the boat. You achieve nothing.

LordReed:
None of the politicians stealing is an atheist (openly anyway). Some of them even donate their loot to church so this your blaming of "atheistic world" is duplicitous.

Don't mind him. how many atheists have been caught stealing in Nigeria?

99.4% of Nigerians are either Christain or Muslim and yet the country is one of the most poor, corrupt and morally bankrupt countries in the world.

Meanwhile, 90% of Chinese consider themselves atheist and the country is one of the most prosperous, less corrupt and moral countries in the world.

Enjoyed reading through this 9 year old thread. It's brought back nostalgia of when nairaland had very intellectually stimulating debates from very cerebral members, especially in the religious section. I truly miss those days.

Pat081:
good talk just like the one that happen in osun state the man sleep with his daughter still the gal dead saying that is devil work some men are just useless how much will he pay to carry runs gals

Typical excuse of a black man " the devil made me do it". I am sure this father will blame the devil if he is caught red handed raping his daughter.

Christianity and Islam has the devil as the fall guy for all their horrific crimes and actions. In the end they will "confess their sins and give their life to christ" and voila, their conscience is whipped clean. No responsibility, no consequences and no karma for their sins.

Image123:
"Convince" means to cause or persuade someone to believe, it does not mean to "impose". Well, you are a mere sinner so i expect you to twist and turn na. i have known you for a while on the forum and you were a notorious atheist in the religion section, convincing people or trying to, on why they should not be religious. You used to bring in news on your small wins with joy. It has pretty much died down now, i guess marriage happened or someone's prayers. There is nothing wrong with "forcing" little children to do right things like devotion, brushing their teeth, waking up, going to school, learning, making healthy lifestyle, doing some chores etc. That is not the same as when they become independent like you are, at which stage they can only persuade you or pray for you.

You lie, bare face.

Yes i started out here in the religious section, and I agree I was notorious according to you, but to try to convince people on why they should not be religious? NEVER. Then I was passionate about correcting all scientific falsehood you guys propagate.

I found peace in myself. I don't need to convince anyone on my beliefs or lack of thereof to find peace. Instead it allowed me to expand my mind to accommodate everybody and accept them on the basis of who they really are and not on what the portend to believe. I have muslim friends and staff, pentecostal Christian friends and staff, a strong traditionalist as a good friend, etc.

Image123:
There's no difference to you because you are dead and without conscience. For you to equate the innocence of a 8 year old to that of a 17year old, it shows the real depravity. So for you, the crime magically jumps of or becomes okay as the child steps into 18year old or something. Since you are so particular with the minor number, should we assume that you are convenient with a father sleeping with his 30year old daughter?

It is mindsets like yours that made people like me pick interest in this sort of thread. Normally and usually, i don't. Are there not people agitating for the change of law or constitution? Are you saying that if the constitution is changed tomorrow, and it is now legal for 13year olds to marry, then this is no more pedophilia to you? Because you are hiding so hard behind that one finger of the law, despite admittance that you were not an angel at 17. Do you realise that the thread deliberately reads that the father is sleeping with the daughter? If it said father raped daughter, that is terrible. What you miraculously cannot see is that it is of more terrible concern for a father to be sleeping with his 17year old daughter instead of "raping" her. How can you know the difference, pornography probably blocked your brain to the difference. What is needed is a real discussion on what are the probable root causes. Not just the usually shouts about how people are sick or pedophiles or deserve to be hanged by the balls. Do you think that really deters anything? Why do you want to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result? Or perhaps, you do not expect a different result after all.

You are just confusing and conflating issues in order to justify your depraved view that the 17 year old has some blame in her rape by her father. Yes when an adult have sex with a minor - whether consensual or not, it is considered rape. Then the rape was by her father who should be her most trusted authority on this earth. That you even suggested that the man was tempted to rape his minor daughter because she did not sleep well or sit appropriately is the height of depravity. In most homes, adult girls walk around the house in only wrapper or towel when around only close family members like their father, brothers or even uncle (I advice against this nowadays).

I am still trying to figure out why you think a man should ever be sexually attractive to his daughter even if she is stark naked. Not just I but many people here find it repugnant.

You seem to project all men as sexual perverts who get aroused by every woman they see, be it daughters, sisters, family relations, and even mothers. You fail to acknowledge that most African families prior to westernisation and urbanisation lived in large family units all crammed in one or few rooms, mostly semi naked, and men were not raping their daughers or other family members.

I hope you are not projecting your personal experience on everyone else.

In addition, I think it's the introduction of Christianity and Islam to Black Africans that also brought with it incest. Before the introductions of these religions, incest was virtually unheard of, it was a taboo of great magnitude. Cousins were not allowed to marry or have sex no matter how many times removed. Even then the ladies were walking around topless. Now, some people are condoning fathers having sex with daughters because she was sleeping carelessly.

Image123:
Your conscience that does not see the difference between a 8year old child and a 17year old child, is that one a conscience? Abeg, go and take a pee or something. We dey talk conscience, wearyone sef dey show face.

To me, there is no difference between a 17 year old and and 8 year old in terms of sex. I could never have sex nor support any full grown adult to have sex with any girl less than 18 years.

R Kelly is serving jail time for having sex with 15 year olds.

Image123:
Better leave that wearyone to himself. That one that cannot even convince his wife that God doesn't exist, you allow him to be literally whining you. According to Jewish law now, that girl ought to be killed, i believe you are aware?

I just don't get the crazy mind set of the average fundamental Christian (and Muslim) that you must impose your beliefs on others by any means necessary.
Why should I convince my wife or any other person that God doesn't exist?. To me God is a very personal concept. Even my children I don't try to preach to them. My daughter loves bible stories and pray with my mum everyday. My sons are a bit apathetic to religion like me, but they are forced to join the morning devotion by my mum. It reminds me of my own childhood where I was literally forced to attend morning devotion everyday until I went of to the university.

Lollittaa:
[color=turquoise]and if she doesn't lock her bedroom door tightly it the bathroom lock is not good, then you descend in her, right? [/color]

Don't mind the pervert.

My 8 year old daughter comes and sleep in my bed whenever my wife goes to her monthly Friday night vigils. She has her own room but prefers to sleep on our bed. We only allow her sleep with us when she is sick. Other times we drive her to her room. Having a hard on because your daughter sleeps on your bed is the worse evil I can think of.

Mind you, many families live in one room or room and parlour apartments. It means that when ever everyone is out of the house leaving the father with the daughter alone, he will start having a hard on (according to the perverts).