₦airaland Forum

[quote author=dan_dollar link=topic=877363.msg10260488#msg10260488 date=1330030980]Please,I want to find out if the networks here(MTN et al) allows bridging of the bb phone with the playbook so I could browse on the playbook using my phone's bis without extra charges.[/quote]Go ahead and bridge the PlayBook to your hearts content, the networks don't currently charge anything extra for it.

To learn a little about what the army itself says about soldiers obeying orders they know is wrong, you can watch the movie: A Few Good Men.

muami:
Unfortunately, no matter how sound/valid his points may be (which I must confess, I did not bother to read), it remains coloured and textured by political considerations. Bakare belongs to an opposition party with elected representatives at the National Assembly. If he is sure of what he iv saying, he shd pass the info to his party's MPs to bring it up properly for it to be debated. Otherwise, it remains a rumour and political talk which shd and ought to be dismissed with a wav of hand!

By your reasoning, if you had read a piece by Obama 3 years ago, you would have dismissed it because he belonged to an opposition party (Bush is a republican, in case you forgot!). You did not bother to read a piece, yet you bothered to put down such diatribe. Your confusion is really within you.

The Unions have NOT suspended the strike action, they have only suspended the mass rallies and occupation of strategic places!

The unions have clarified this more than four times, when would you apologists stop spreading falsehood?

Wale Majaro
Arithmetic of Fuel Subsidy:

The Nigerian government claims that Nigerians consume 34million L of petrol per day. Most experts disagree and give a figure between 20ML and 25ML per day. For this write up, I will use the government figure. The government has also said that N141/L is the unsubsidized pump price of petrol imported into Nigeria, with N131.7 the landing price and N9.3 as profit.

Now, the government has made claims of the refineries working between 30% and 60%, depending on whom you listen to. For the sake of argument, I will assume that our refineries don’t work at all (i.e. 0% Production). Thus, my calculation is based on 100% of petrol used in Nigeria being imported, the worst case scenario. If the refineries actually work at 60% as the government claims, they should be processing 270,000 bbl/day of crude. Each barrel of crude produces 75L of petrol. So, if the government is to be believed, the refineries produce 19.5 million L of petrol a day and we should therefore only import 14.5million L a day. My analysis will ignore this completely.

So here is the arithmetic, using the government’s own figures:
Daily fuel consumption/importation: 34million L
Cost at pump: N141
No of days in a year: 365
Total cost of all petrol imported into Nigeria = 34Mx141x365 = N1.75 trillion

Now, Nigerians have been paying N 65/L for fuel, haven’t we? Therefore, cost borne by the consumers = 34Mx65x365 = N807 billion

Cost of the subsidy borne by the government is:
Subsidy = Total cost of import – cost borne by consumers
= N1.75 trillion – N807 billion
= N943 billion

So, even if we believe the claim that we consume 34million L/day and we assume that the refineries don’t work, the government should still not have spent up to N 1 trillion on the subsidy in 2011. How did they manage to spend N1.3 trillion by October? Since N1.3 trillion was spent by October, then the bill for the full year 2011 (assuming a constant rate of consumption) is: N1.56 trillion!

What accounts for the difference between N943 billion and N1.56 trillion? This is a difference of N617 billion that the government cannot explain. Did I hear a government official claim that the difference is what goes to subsidize our neighbours through smuggling? Time for more arithmetic.

Using figures from Okonjo-Iweala’s World Bank, here are the populations of West African countries:
Nigeria: 158.4 million
Benin: 8.8 million
Togo: 6 million
Cameroun: 19.6 million
Niger: 15.5 million
Chad: 11.2 million
Ghana: 24.4 million
The total population of all our neighbours: 85.5 million

Now, let us assume that fully 50% of the petrol consumed in each of these countries is illegally exported from Nigeria. Let us also assume that each of these countries consumes petrol at the same rate the Nigerian government claims petrol is consumed in Nigeria. I have deliberately ignored the ff facts which show that petrol consumption in these countries will necessarily be considerably lower than consumption in Nigeria:
1. Some of these countries have stable electricity (eg Ghana) and thus do not depend on petrol-driven generators for power.
2. Ghana, Togo and Benin are much smaller than Nigeria, thus traveling distances will be smaller.
3. Niger and Chad are mostly desert and cross-desert transportation of goods/people is mostly by diesel-consuming trucks, not petrol-consuming cars.
4. Apart from Ghana, the car density in each of these countries is much, much lower than the car density in Nigeria. In Nigeria, there are 31 cars for every 1000 citizens. In Togo and Chad, you have less than 10 cars for 1000 people.
5. Ghana has started to produce oil and will very likely rely less and less on refined products smuggled from Nigeria, once the Ghanaian local refining capacity is built up.

Rate of petrol consumption in Nigeria = Total consumed/total population
= 34ML/158.8M people
= 0.21L/person/day

Rate of petrol consumption in neighbouring countries is assumed to be same as Nigeria = 0.21L/person/day

Petrol consumption by our neighbours = Rate of consumption x total population
= 0.21x85.5M
= 18.35ML per day

Now, we have assumed that 50% of the petrol consumed in each of these countries comes from Nigeria. This value comes to: 9.18 millionL per day.

Let’s pause here. Think about it again. Is it possible for 9.18 million L of petrol to be smuggled out of our borders and the government cannot do anything about it? The biggest fuel tankers in Nigeria have a capacity of about 36,000L. How many of these trucks do you need to smuggle 9.18 ML of fuel? 254! Our government is telling us that over 250 huge tankers pass through our borders everyday and they cannot do anything about it! Wow! Talk about incompetence! This in itself is an urgent security challenge – if you cannot stop 250 tanker trailers from crossing the borders daily, how can you stop importation of weapons or even an invasion by a foreign army?

But that is not all.

Let’s believe the government and assume that about 9.18ML is actually taken to our neighbours everyday and this is all subsidized by the Nigerian government.

How much will this translate to?

Difference between pump price before and after subsidy removal = N141-N65 = N76
Total spent on subsidizing petrol to our neighbours annually = N76 x 9.18ML x 365
= N255 billion

I have assumed that:
1. There are no working refineries in Nigeria.
2. Nigeria actually consumes 34ML of petrol per day.
3. Ghana, Togo, Benin, Cameroun, Niger, Chad all get 50% of their petrol illegally, from Nigeria.
4. Ghana, Togo, Benin, Cameroun, Niger, Chad all consume petrol at the same rate as Nigeria.

Yet, the government’s figures still don’t add up! There is N362 billion missing. This is the difference between N943 billion and N1.56 trillion, assuming N255 billion is wasted through subsidizing the rest of West Africa. The government should tell us what/who eats up this N362 billion ($2.26 billion).

These figures simply show the incompetence and insincerity of our government officials. The simplest part of the arithmetic is laid down below:

• NNPC crude oil allocation for local consumption: 400,000 barrels per day
• Assuming refineries work at 30%, 280,000 barrels can be sold on the international market. (Remember that I assumed that refineries don’t work in calculating our consumption, to give an absolute worst case scenario).
• Money accruing to FGN, through NNPC on the sale, using $80/bbl: $22.4m a day. Note that the true price is higher, as oil currently sells for $100/bbl and Nigerian crude sells at a premium to the benchmark Brent crude.
• Annually, this translates to: $8.176bn or N1.3trillion.

What does this mean? The government does not subsidize our petrol imports, at least not from the Federation Account. The same crude that should have been refined by NNPC is simply sold on the international market (since our refineries barely work) and the money is used to buy petrol. The 400,000 barrels/day given to NNPC for local consumption can either be refined by NNPC or sold to pay for imports. The “subsidy” should be funded with this money, not the regular FGN budget. If the government uses its regular budget for subsidizing petrol, then what happens to the crude given to NNPC for local refining, but gets sold on the international market?

Conclusion
Now that the petrol pump price has been hiked by over 100% and resulted in 100-200% increases in the price of transportation, personal electricity generation and foodstuff, what do I advice the government to do?

1. Revise the petrol price, not to N65, but to an amount which takes inflation into consideration. Cumulative inflation from 2008 to 2011 is about 27%. A new petrol price of N88 should be a reasonable sacrifice for Nigerians, while the government tries to build trust by sorting out the real issues of the midstream/downstream oil industry and cutting down the cost of governance.
2. Partner with the International Oil Companies (IOCs) operating in the upstream oil sector to carry out the deregulation of the midstream/downstream oil sectors. Refineries are not very profitable compared to other areas in the oil industry; with profit margins ranging from 0-15% (this is why we don’t see companies queuing up to set up refineries). The government needs to give incentives to these companies to set up refineries in Nigeria, in the form of tax breaks, duty exemptions, crude price guarantees, etc. All agreements should be in place, with an enabling law, by September 2012.
3. The government has already shown and admitted that it cannot manage refineries. All new Greenfield refineries should use the NLNG model, where government owns enough equity to influence strategy in favour of the Nigerian people, but is not involved in the routine management of the company. This is the best way to get the best out of these refineries while protecting the national interest. The new refineries should come on stream by end of 2014.
4. Sell the existing refineries to the IOCs and stop spending taxpayers’ money trying to revamp them within the current structure. The IOCs have built and currently operate hundreds of refineries across the world, so refining is their bread and butter. ExxonMobil’s Torrance Refinery is over 80 years old, Total’s Port Arthur Refinery is about 100 years old – these companies know how to manage refineries.
5. The sale of the refineries should be carried out by September 2012. I know the refineries have been very poorly managed, so we should not expect to make tons of cash from selling them. The main advantages of the existing refineries to a buyer are the existing Brownfield facilities (roads, utilities, power), an existing pipeline distribution system and a skilled workforce. The IOCs should be mandated to revamp these new refineries to 70% nameplate production by January 2014 and 95% by January 2015.
6. Incorporate PPPRA into DPR by December 2012, with an appropriate legislation (I’m not sure whether this is already included in the PIB). Let us have one strong agency to monitor all activities, including product pricing in the downstream oil industry.
7. Balkanize PPMC and sell it off to private investors, again with the government retaining a non-controlling stake in the new entities. This should be done by September 2012, in parallel with the sale of refineries.
8. Increase the fuel price in Jan 2014, not by simply jacking up the prices, but by introducing a tax on imported products. The tax should be deducted at source when making “subsidy” payments to the importers. Jan 2014 is chosen because I expect the output from local refineries to improve to at least 70% within 1 year of operations by IOCs.
9. Introduce a law that any company that will be licensed to import petroleum products from July 2013 must either be currently running a refinery in Nigeria or be in the process of building a refinery in Nigeria (i.e. project has passed FID stage and execution contracts are signed). The total products each individual company can import must not be more than 20% of the company’s total refining capacity (existing + in construction) in Nigeria. This is the only way to break the importation “cabal”.
10. Immediately, start prosecuting all companies and individuals suspected of involvement in the royal mess that the fuel importation segment has become. Use the same vigour (or more) that was used in the 2009-2010 reform of the banking sector. Also, all companies and individuals suspected of involvement in the refinery TAM contract scams should be prosecuted.
11. Immediately, tighten the borders to minimize smuggling of petroleum products to neighbouring countries and sack/prosecute the relevant officials if smuggling remains a major issue. Our petrol will always be cheaper than that of our neighbours, especially if/when local refining reaches/surpasses local consumption. As every economist knows, products will always be cheaper in the source location than other places.
12. Set up petroleum product trading agreements for surplus products in Nigeria to be sold to neighbouring countries in a legal and transparent manner. All agreements should be in place by July 2013, well in advance of additional capacity coming on stream. These agreements will assure companies building refineries that there is an available regional market for them to legally sell products refined in Nigeria.

With all the above, “subsidy” will disappear by Dec 2014, but in a gradual process, ensuring no price shocks (such as the 100% increase of Jan 2012) re-occur and ensuring that the industry is actually sanitized. Of course, the government also needs to keep to its several promises of improving the power sector and revamping rail lines, two critical developments which will reduce our consumption of petroleum products significantly.

Data Sources:

1. http://www.nigeriafirst.org/article_11527.shtml Para. 14
2. http://www.nigerianoilgas.com/?p=518
3. http://www.pppra-nigeria.org/index.asp
4. http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/subsidy-deductions-hit-n1-264tr-say-govs/101264/
5. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL
6. http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTPSIA/Resources/490023-1120841262639/Angola_PSIA_vol1_English.pdf
7. http://www.livecharts.co.uk/MarketCharts/crude.php
8. http://www.cenbank.org/rates/inflrates.asp?year=2011
9. http://www.nlng.com/PageEngine.aspx?&id=43
10. http://www.totalpetrochemicalsusa.com/pdf/F_FactsPortArthur.pdf
11. http://www.exxonmobil.com/NA-English/PA/about_where_ref_torrance.aspx
12. http://www.petroleumonline.com/content/overview.asp?mod=8
13. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/european-refining-margins-negative-in-dec-total-2012-01-05
14. http://205.254.135.7/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=24&t=6
15. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IS.VEH.NVEH.P3
16. http://cdn.dailypost.com.ng/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Consolidated-Detailed-Findings.pdf

Source: http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10150603642573033&id=536558032&m_sess=FwaY2-Olrw9yZe&&

Dr Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala just now on Channels TV claimed that the 240Billion budgeted for fuel subsidy in the 2011 budget was only for 2 months as the Govt had planned to remove fuel subsidy actually in 2011!!!

This government and the amount of lies and deceit being churned out is too nauseating.
She claims that FGN would create 370000 jobs yearly but could not state how or where the jobs would be created. She alwo claimed that the SURE project documents had been designed well in advance, just that the VP Sambo was struggling to get it out to the media houses and it just happened that it finally made it after the removal

Now if this country needs money from fuel subsidy removal to finance almost all the projects listed in the 2012 budget, then what was the proceeds from the 2.4 Million barrels per days crude sales meant for? is it meant just to finance the running of government and allowances of NASS?

It is clear this government is clueless about how to move forward.

karl max:
For those Abokis that come here to spread propoganda that buhari built nigeria refinenary pls read "The Federal Government financially buoyed by these large earnings from oil had embarked on a very large number of projects including a Iron & Steel Industry, road and bride construction projects, and two grassroots refinery projects.

Pls Ʊ people should stop turning our history just to prove to us that your religious bigot leader and a muslim terrorist,  Infact is during his Time that the nnpc was coverted to the northerners private property by employing incompetent northerners that mismanaged and distroyed nnpc and the refineries

I shake my head at your reasoning abilities. As you can see, I removed your narrative of what happened. Now tell me, who was in charge while all this your narrative about what happened was going on? Was it Ironsi, Shagari or GeJ?

You are an example of the failings of the educational system.

logica:
Apart from the fact that I have a special dislike for military and ex military people, the apparent tribalism of the northerners in the last election was enough reason for me to oppose all northerners.

Here's an example:

I know of a Sudanese married to a northerner and who lives in Lagos. Initially she was supporting Babangida. When Babangida lost the prelim I expected her to stick to a political ideology and PDP then support GEJ. To my surprise she switched to Buhari. I pointedly asked her why her support was more along tribal lines than political. Her response was a jumble of words like a crack addict on withdrawal; it made no sense. I then noticed she wasn't the only northerner acting in this manner.

I didn't know any northerners supporting southern candidates; but I knew lots of southern (so called progressives) supporting northerners, and it wasn't as if there were no good southern candidates. There was therefore no way in hell I'd support a northerner.

Now he's talking about Buhari; well Utomi would've been better than Buhari. Shikena.

Your attemp at peddling lies is so nauseating and very much illogical.

So Jonathan won the PDP primaries without any Northerner supporting him a  Southerner, or he won the elections without Northerners voting for him? You might want to compare the spread of votes in the Northern states with those in the Southern states, you will definitely learn a lot about which region is more sentimental about tribe or religion.

brein:
Maybè its timè You guY procurè binoculars to hèlp You sèè into the nèarèst futurè. Ya'll fortunatè to havè a prèsidènt wavè out fuèl subsidy oncè and for all.
This attèmpt would makè privatè invèstors come to tablè with thèir own compètitivè fuèl prizès by thè timè thèy èmbark on building rèfinèriès and thè sort. . Ya'll would apprèciatè Goodluck Jonathan in thè ènd, aftèrall.

FYI, refinery licenses have been granted since OBJ's tenure. Investors are not building refineries not because their is fuel subsidy or do you want to explain to me why they would not build?
Subsidy only means that government pays a portion of the cost on behalf of the populace, it does not translate to invetsors not being able to recoup their investments. Please get that right and not confuse it.

However, the outside investors are not willing to build refineries in an economy that is still being regulated and where the crude belongs to the government. The question bordering the investors are simple:
1. How do I get crude from the OICs?
2. How do I get the rights to lay pipelines to my refinery?
3. In a situation where the Govt owns the crude and the pipelines, what if I fallout with the present Govt and they decide to withdraw from selling me crude?

All the above still needs to be resolved by making the chnages in our relevenat laws to enable private participation in the oil refining process.

iskoki:
Fellow Nigerians, bokoharam are able to purchase weapons and other materials through resources they got from oil diversion. Many of these Islamic extremists in the far north have their networks in Niger and Chad, when they divert petrol bought at 63naira in Nigeria, it is then smuggled outside and sold at over 170naira if you convert the rate.

Through these monies, arms and ammunition are then bought. Sometimes the petrol is bartered directly for bullets and explosives in Chad. One tanker can provide you with over 50. submachine guns and hundreds of thousands of Russian and Eastern European made live munitions brought in via Algeria, Libya and Sudan.

I'll type more later, i don't want to get caught.

Good to hear. The money from the petrol smuggled in the South West to Benin Republic ends up where? With Boko Haram too I guess
The money from the petrol smuggled across the South East border to Cameroun, I believe also ends up to finance Boko Haram!

By the way, since Boko Haram has been causing all this mayhem using motorcycles, it is time to increase the duties on motor cycles to 95%, or better still, let's totally ban the use of motorcycles anywhere within Nigeria

[quote author=X-mind link=topic=837710.msg9887017#msg9887017 date=1325598114]What are these guys protesting? I think it is ignorance that will make anyone reject subsidy removal.Let's be realistic and allow it go for good. Let's give Jonathan the chance to transform Nigeria. Everyone outside there should just go back to your houses and support the government to succeed.[/quote]In the not too distant past, there were people like you that said the same thing about Abacha, praised Mubrarak and echoed the same sentiments for Sadam. There are even many like you saying the same about the Syrian government.

So I am not surprised.

The One:
I will use the same posers that you used to reply to yyour post

ONE. PMS importers and marketers have imported the fuel already. Don't you want them to sell at market prices and recoup their money? Correction: NNPC imports fuel through the marketers and pay them the cost of te imported fuel. It is only now, after deregulation that importers can directly import

TWO. My argument is also clear. That road expansion has been funded by taxpayers seed money (6 billion naira) and the road does not cost 50 billion to expand. In essence, LCC has spent very little if any of their own money on the road to justify 3 tolls charging 150 naira each on a 23km stretch. Can you see the fraud now? Wrong again, LCC funded the the road repairs/expansion/rebuild and Lagos State govt funds were not used, Lagos govt only guaranteed the loans taken by LCC

THREE.  There are alternatives. Use bicycles or trek. Or better still move to Cameroun. It is analogous to you calling those privates backroads through Oniru an alternative to an expressway. (Ah hah ha, not to worry, I can afford the new prices, but do you propose that for the over 100 Million other Nigerians that they should move to Cameroun BTW, what should be an alternative to an expressway, another expressway?)

FOUR I only require that the LASG demonstrate to me that they cannot afford to provide me a good thoroughfare through an entire region in the state even when it is the only presence they have there and are making a killing off taxes and heavy land charges in the area. The LASG has already demonstrated it, the road was expanded/rebuilt using a PPP to ensure that you can get to your offices in VI/Ikoyi without stress, the issue is if YOU want to pay the required toll fees

This is not about BRF vs GEJ. It is about what is just and fair in ALL circumstances. What is just and fair in ALL circumstances in a utopia. In your just and fair parlance, you would sentence demand a sentence of 5 years for a man that brutaly murders a girl after raping her because the judge had initially sentenced another man convicted of manslaughter due to reckless driving just because in both cases someone died?

Quit trying to tie the two together, it reduces your ability to have unbiased undiluted analysis of the fuel subsidy imbroglio.

The One:
@Akainzo

There is absolutely no difference. If the Lagos State govt cannot afford to provide a road to Lekki residents, which is a basic duty of govt, in the same token you shouldn't expect the Fed govt to subsidize fuel which is not even a fundamental obligation. Use your head, you are only making noise because fuel subsidy affects you and it's not being done by Fashola. In essence, what is good for BRF should also be for GEJ.

Note that I'm not in favor of or against fuel subsidy. I no longer care!!

Well, it's so very easy to want to look at things from only the perspective of BRF/GEJ and thus get things muddled up as you did not approach the issues with an open mind, rather, you read my posts with a certain mindset.

The two issues are different, one: Lagos State government has awarded the contract and the company has built/upgraded the road. GEJ has not built/upgraded any refineries.
Two: my arguments are clear - THERE IS NO SUBSIDY while you cannot argue that the Lekki road was not expanded or no works were done.
Three: 90% of Nigerians cannot avoid using PMS for their daily lives while 70% of Lekki residents do have a choice they can make - alternative routes or alternative accommodation. For Nigerians, what are the alternatives to using transportation? witchcraft? 
Four: I do not expect the FGN to subsidize fuel for me, I only ask that they show that they have been actually subsidizing it as they claim. But going by your own logic, maybe I shouldn’t ask the govt to subsidize education as well, or provide affordable housing or even subsidize farmers.
And by the way, you need not compare BRF to GEJ, the vote is out already on which one is incompetent to handle his job. I do not praise mediocres!.

Rad1cal:
Akainzo, you have no shame . . So you boldly came here after your lame attempt at lying to defend the LASG oppressing Lekki triple toll gate .

Imagine how shameless he is coming here to argue against subsidy removal . . after his previous vain attempt to paint the Lekki toll gates as the best developmental events that could ever happen for the lekki inhabitants

Imagine the double pain the Lekki folks are feeling

You are indeed a goat with no reasoning abilities, and only has a one track mind like a village goat.
So because I believe in the Lekki Toll plazas, I should not be against the fuel subsidy removal? Does the presence or otherwise of the toll plaza based on the price of fuel? Truly money spent on educating you was wrongly spent as you only went there to see buildings and have fun.

The Lekki road was expanded prior to the toll plaza being built, how many refineries did GEJ build or how many did he resuscitate prior to this move? You need to utilize your brain a little when you have discussions.

Obiagu1:
Exploration/drilling, etc is the work of the oil companies and they normally use drilling and servicing companies to do those work. It's part of their operation.

I know about Nigerians 40/40/20 with the oil companies. I don't know if it has changed now though.

This shouldn't even be an argument at all.
There's a company, there's a shareholder, and there's a product.
A company markets it product according to market prices. If prices go up, they make more profit but if the prices crash, then they may record loses.

So in oil industry, the company is the oil companies like Shell, the shareholder is the government, and the product is the crude. The oil companies sell their products according to market prices. When they declare profit, they give the shareholders including the government part of their profit. If government wants to help out her citizens, then they, the government, pay part of the market price to make it affordable. This is where subsidy comes in.

This is as far I can go on this

My guy, due to some kinda NDA, I can't go into much details to let you know I know much than you on this. If you're still stuck on a 40/40/20 stuff, you're way off base.

Now you should know that cost of crude for a producing country is definitely different than for a non-producing country. Or do you assume that we produce at the same cost sold at international market prices?

Our local consumption cost is at an opportunity cost and not at market rates. Or are you one of those armchair economists that profess that a farmer calculate the cost of food to his household at market rates?

BTW, your analysis with Shell is very much way off point. Your analysis holds in US & UK due to the nature of their operations, but not in Nigeria, due to our JV model.

Obiagu1:
That's not a guarantee he knows what he's talking about because if he did say that, then he should cover his face in shame.

What are the guarantees that YOY, know what you are talking about?

Obiagu1:
Government being a part owner of an oil company does not mean that the product of the company should be sold at a different price from market prices. It's not done anywhere in the world and it's very illogical. Being a part owner means that when the company finally declares its profit, like a shareholder, the government takes his share of the profit and fck off.

Again, you make assumptions about what you know nothing about. The US or UK situation is different from Nigeria. Nigeria operates a Joint Venture agreement system. Do read it up.

Have you perused any of Nigeria's budget before, if so, please kindly show me anywhere in that budget that States the payments to offset cost of exploring/producing crude oil.
If the FGN budget does not show it, why do you only want to introduce it only for discussion on fuel subsidy

Obiagu1:
Unfortunately, Prof Tom David-West do not know WTF he's talking about.

A former petroleum Minister for about 3 years doesn't know what he is talking about as regards petroleum subsidy! Na wa o!

Obiagu1:
Government has no oil company that drills and produces oil, do they?
The crude oil we export is the property/product of the oil company that explored, drilled, service, and produced them and their product is sold at an international price level. They only pay government royalty; that's how government make their money.

You are wrong on above assertion. In Nigeria, we have mostly Joint Venture agreements, which makes FGN through NNPC part owners of the drilling/exploration companies. They therefore share profits and are part owners of the crude. This is why Govt doesn't also show the cost of oil exploration in its own budgeting.

Quote from Obiagu1

@ Akainzo,

There are some wrongful assumptions you made.

(1) You assumed that the cost of exploration and production is zero

No I did not assume that, that has been taking cared of by the cost of running NNPC. In the 2012 budget with a crude benchmark of $100, are you accusing the GOVT of making the same assumptions?

(2) You assumed that the companies that explored, drilled, serviced, produced the petroleum run a charity, hence do not declare profit.

Again, this cost is borne and accounted for in the running of the Ministry of Petroleum Resources. Note that NNPC owns 51% stake in these companies and thus earn/share in this profit but nowhere in our budget do you see this earnings stated as it is also termed as part of cost of running NNPC.

(3) Nigeria has an unlimited quota hence could increase the volume of her petroleum export to offset the subsidy

Haba! Nowhere in my post did I allude to this, Nigeria has a fixed 400,000 barrels of crude allocated for local consumption and I simply showed what that amount can give us in imported fuel.

Eh Conversely, are you assuming that Nigeria imports unlimited quantities of PMS?

Quote from dmainboss

@Akinzo,

you are a funny chap. So of the 160 million Nigerians including labor, you are the only one that saw that "revelation " eh? Funny chap. So if it is that simple, why didn't labor see it like you just did and stand by that? Even labor and all the opposition governors didn't disagree that there is subsidy. They are only making arguments in the areas of corruption and assurances for cushioning the effects of subsidy removal. Nigerians self and their self deceit and i too know attitude!

Your lack if reasoning is what makes you assume for the 160 millon Nigerians, even going to the extent of including Prof Tam David-West who has been saying it since that there aint no subsidy!

You just demonstrated the typical ignorant people's trait, trying to belittle others opinion as ITK, to mask their lack of intellect.

dmainboss:
In your anger, which I fully understand, you have made a few missteps. 3rd mainland bridge was a project spanning more than 9 years. It was started long before Babangida's time. If Jonathan wanted to loot money, he would have simply stayed with fuel subsidy. It is easier to connive with fuel importers to steal money than to let it remain in the Nigerian government system, not to talk of all the pressures the whole episode has put him thru. He has actually made a much more difficult decision

Pally, don't include yarning falsehoods as part of your arguments. At the bolded part, IBB started Third Mainland Bridge. He conceived it, nurtured it and commissioned it.

Jonathan wants to loot more money! What has not been accounted for in all this subsidy imbroglio is this: Where does the money earned from selling the 350,000 barrels of crude oil kept? Where is the account of that money?
Also, what happens to the PMS refined from the 50,000 barrels of crude that the local refineries manage to refine in-country?

There aint no subsidy, and the removal of fuel subsidy is just another way of getting more money available into the pockets of the selected few.

Let me do a simple analysis for us all

Total cost of imported PMS = Landing cost + Depot Cost + Bridging Cost =   125  +  x   +  x    = 150 (hypothetical final figure from govt circles)
Cost of PMS at the Pump = 65
                       Subsidy = 150 – 65 = 85

Subsidy can only exist if the money earned from selling the 350,000 barrels of oil per day is not enough to offset this N85 from each litre of PMS sold in Nigeria. Let me itemise with a little analogy
It is common knowledge that there is 158 litres of PMS in a barrel of crude oil, therefore for simplicity I would use this for the analysis.

                                                   If Govt imports 15,800,000 ltrs of PMS, subsidy on it          =    15,800,000 * 85 = 1,343,000,000.00
                To get the equivalent of the 15.8M ltrs of oil, govt would need to export (15.8M/158) =  94,048 barrels of crude oil
Govt earnings from 94,048 crude export = 94,048 * $100 (cost of crude) * N150 (exchange rate) =  1,410,720,000.00

So from the above Govt earnings – Subsidy   ==>  (1,410,720,000 – 1,343,000,000 ) = 67,720,000
This implies that from every 15.8M litres of PMS imported into this country, even at the selling price of N65, the FGN still makes a profit of 67M (Sixty-Seven Million naira), so my fellow Nigerians, WHERE IS THE SUBSIDY

Now some may take an erroneous view that I should be using the full N150 to calculate the cost of the 15.8M imported, however, once you realise that the N65 sell price is already an earnings/income to the government, then what we need to account for is the differential in income, which is the subsidy.

The One:
@2AMLasgidi, it is intellectual Liliputians like you that resort to insults and abuse when they cannot marshall their points coherently. In the same report you came to post here with glee the guy said he was attacked by thugs and policemen or you didn't see that part? You have also suddenly changed you position to "asking me and my no-tolling people to show pictures" when you clearly stated earlier that you asked me to do that. There's a lot of inconsistencies in your stories which shows that you are clutching at straws.

It is ironic that you would mention me and yahoo yahoo in the same breathe when the wealth of this nation that your ACN- folks loot comes from the daily hard work that me and my colleagues put in to ensure oil flows into the tank. The fact that I try to engage in intellectual discourse with people on this site does not imply that I am open to cheap shots from your ilk who only know how how feed off crumbs from your paymasters.

I'm done with this already.

Aside from the tiff going on between you and Lasgidi, I would say I read the report and nowhere in the report did the man mention THUGS. He did say he was assaulted by the Police, but he DID NOT mention thugs.

freecocoa:
The first lady sure makes a lot of blunders in english language but all you laughing about"ojukwu is dead but his manhood lives on" are kinda dumb.

That sentence is a 100% percent CORRECT,manhood is not only another name for the manliness,check your dictionaries,its also

THE STATE OF BEING A MAN(adult male or maturity)
TRADITIONAL MANLY QUALITIES.
THE STATE OF BEING HUMAN etc

Laugh at all her mistakes but the above is not one of them(maybe she got lucky) its just ironic to laugh at this when you don't even know the joke's on you.

On the above posts, even by the definitions you have enumerated, she is completely wrong!

i. State of being a man - You can only be in the state of being a man when you can perform the functions of a man, and except na by winch, Ojukwu cannot definitely continue to perform the functions of a man.
ii. traditional manly qualities - Which of them can Ojukwu continue to display? courage? Bravery? Protection of wife and family? Speech? or what is living on?
iii. State of being human - I need not say anything on this or does Ojukwu continue to be in a human state?

okeymadu:
I voted for Buhari during the election, but his actions immediately after the presidential election proved that he does not have the temperament to manage a complex country like Nigeria.

In as much as I do not entire agree with some policies of the GEJ government, I think I prefer GEJ to Buhari.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Can you please share with me/us, the "his actions immediately after the presidential election that proved he does not have the temperament to rule"?

Well, All I am in for is the 3 points. RVP could better Henry's goal haul for the year for Arsenal but I doubt if he would bag a hatrick to break Shearer's own. He has kinda slowed down a little for a while and thus Maybe he would equal it but I sincerely do not see him breaking it.

But, should he break it, I would be much more elated. However, the key thing is: 3 POINTS!

nobaga:
It is this mad dog and call-boy-girl asss- licking named Eko-Ile that drives people crazy. He is well paid to behave that way while others are speaking from pain caused by greed of their politicians.

Read the article again and tell me how those on minimum wage or less with a working wife to make ends meet pay that wage on toll because they have an old jalopy to go find daily bread for their family.

The guy on another thread that was cursing with thunder and all sort was reprimanded because people do not understand the deepness of his pain. If the same guy manage to secure AK-41 and stated shooting people on Boudillon, they will respect him and negotiate with him like Niger Delta and Boko Haram. So what if he cursed? Can anyone cure his pain?

My only fear is that innocents will suffer in the next Agbekoya revolt.

Tell me all the people earning minimum wage of 18K per month live along the Lekki-Epe expressway?

Kobojunkie:
Lekki Coastal Road IS the Lekki Expressway, according also to Tunde Fashola himself.

How that Expressway is now in the hands of Federal, Lord knows. The Shoreline road however which LASG proposed back in 2009 to quell the worries of the people back then is still on paper and not out yet.

Are you sure of this? Lekki Expressway has been in existence for almost 2 decades now! So how can it then be the same as the coastal road? It definitely aint one and the same. Please get your facts right.

[quote author=ade_77 link=topic=827167.msg9803764#msg9803764 date=1324388061]why not call your friend and comfirm[/quote]That is why I wrote above that it could not have been awarded to LCC when the Investment Proposals have not been finalised.

Somehow, I am not surprised by the gatherings and usernames that have replied so far! Na the usual people.

Beaf, ACN, is so bad that they could repair all these roads in Lagos State, kindly tell us the roads that have been repaired under PDP. We even had a Minister weeping at the state of a particular federal road some years back, what is the state of that same road five years after?

Hypocrites gathering to pat themselves in the back.

[quote author=ade_77 link=topic=827167.msg9803675#msg9803675 date=1324387208]that is not true construct a new road and toll, nobody will complain don't repair and toll the only existing road while walling up the other alternatives e.g shoprite road that was there before[/quote]The coastal road is a federal government project and not a Lagos State initiative. This is why I doubt that the coastal road would have been awarded to LCC as part of its agreement with Lagos, when all the landing points in other states have not yet been settled. I know cos a friend of mine is part of the project consultants.

RuuDie:
*clears throat*

Errm. . . . . .wasn't the planned alternative to the tolled route supposed to be a much longer 'coastal road'; how come it is Alhaji Oniru's backyard and I thought the terms of the contract clearly included/stated construction of the Coastal Road before commencement of tolling!?

The coastal road is a Federal project that is supposed to run from Lagos all the way to Cross Rivers state. That is still currently in the planning stage. However, once completed, people can use it as an alternative to the Lekki-Epe expressway as it would also land in Epe and somewhere behind Ikorodu.

For now the existing alternative is in Oniru.

RuuDie:
The crux of the entire matter is. . . . . . .where will the bulk of the money collected end up eventually!?

And where was the bulk of the money to build the road sourced from?

[quote author=ade_77 link=topic=827167.msg9799785#msg9799785 date=1324331056]120 per trip
7200 per month
86,400 per year
Now multiply by 200,000cars
17,280,000,000.00 generated annually
For 30years to a privately owned coy for a road that
Costs 50billion. Haba[/quote]Good analysis! However, what is the cost of the wear and tear on that road as 200,000 vehicles use it daily? What is the cost of maintaining that road for the 30 years? How much would have been paid as Salaries in those 30 years?

You calculate revenue alone without calculating expenses? :oThat is the hallmark of a failed business as was being practiced by Nigeria prior to now, which is why our public enterprises were collapsing. It is time to open our eyes to realities, there are associated costs to development.