₦airaland Forum

I've always wanted to start a church but couldn't work out a name till this thread. It shall have credit for the name.

I wonder why no one sees nothing wrong with Pastor Justin Hoke of Trinity Bible Presbyterian Church in Weed, California, posting a new church sign in early January reading "Bruce Jenner is still a man. Homosexuality is still sin. The culture may change. The Bible does not." Has he not sinned himself?

A pastor is like a shopkeeper. This one put commodities the community don't want on the shelf so they kicked him out and long may such selfcentred bigotry be continously kicked out of the Church of Love!

More info pls.

Thieves will never run our country again!

TATIME:
You're not getting my point man!
There thousands upon thousands of motivational speakers in religion, the Churches coming first and Islam following. Atheism is just developing her own motivational speakers as well. But let's SEE the visible fruits as in what all these speakers are teaching in theories!
Let's SEE the aftermath in the lives and reactions of adherents. That's my point!
You're not as motivational as i do in speaking my friend, but when it comes to the practical applications of what we're saying, i'm presenting Jehovah's Witnesses as evidence to prove that what i'm saying is PRACTICAL!

Tatime, I guess you did not sincerely follow our conversation from the beginning, much of what I said might have gone straight over you but you and I know it touched your spirit. I have nothing against Jws. In fact, though I have heard their view, you are the second Jw I've ever discussed atheism with. The first was 90 year old Papa Roger (rip), who on hearing I was an atheist refused to talk to me for months until he learnt about me. Still it would be unwise to assume all Jws are like you.

You know what I do Tatime, because I have done it to you. I'm not knocking on anyone's door because I can sit in my warm house and knock on people's brains wherever they are and however much they resist with my words abiding as long as Nairaland lives! Or you seriously think the many people reading here are not hearing because we are not knocking on their doors? Go read our conversation from the beginning. You'll get it.

TATIME:
If you're truthfully expecting God to "come down from heaven and give you useful information PERSONALLY" then

Maybe now you might understand when I say, no, I do not expect any Gods to "come down from heaven and give me useful information PERSONALLY". Gods do not need to "come down from heaven to give me useful information PERSONALLY" because as I said, buda has already climbed up the mountain and said, "What the fuq, Lord! Has Moses got two heads?! Is it not you who created buda also? I'm coming up too. And I'm coming near you!"

"And so we all went all the way up the mountain, and the Lord gave buda the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father sent to teach all things and bring all things to remembrance."

TATIME:
buda has got NO visible fruits, all what buds has got is theories NOT practicals.

Blindness comes in all forms. There is a blindness that limits the ability to see and there's blindness which involves the unblind person covering the eye so as not to see. Then there's blindness of the mind where the eye sees but the mind refuses to accept what is seen. Oh Tatime you are covering your eye, denying the evidence I laid before you and which you confessed in your own words.

LordReed:
I meant the bible is quoted to support different stuff, nobody quotes Aesop to support the existence of talking tortoise and hare.

It sure would be odd to "quote Aesop to support the existence of talking tortoise and hare" like they use the bible to support burning bushes and talking donkeys!

LordReed:
Ahh but it is used as evidence. If we are making the bible a book of fables and rhetoric I am fine with that.

I don't know that the Bible is "used as evidence". Do you mean like "the pastor done it, in the vestry, with the bible, here is exhibit A" ?

LordReed:
As legal arguments? No way.

In legal arguments, as rhetoric. The Bible is not used as legal arguments either.

LordReed:
Exactly. They don't quote Aesop's fables in the law courts. LMFAO!

They, those who know it, do quote Aesop's Fables in the law court!

LordReed:
Why would you mix truth and fiction to supposedly teach things of eternal consequence? Scientific journals are not the only way important information is passed accross and very few use legends, Law and Accounting come to mind.

Why would a god be unable to find a way to communicate that will be free of misinterpretation? Legends are just stories with twisted details. Why would a god use that as a means to communicate what is supposed to be the most serious truth?

The same reason we use Aesop Fables, my Lord, and the tortoise and the hare, and Alice in Wonderland. It works on children and the not so developed mind. The problems start when we grow up but hold on to childish believes instead of seeking understanding.

You need to stop calling the bible, god, or claim a god did anything stated in it!

TATIME:
Jesus said " By their FRUIT"
So let's wait and SEE the fruit of ATHEISM.
I've SEEN the fruit of Jehovah's Witnesses and everyone is talking about them as their activities are felt near and far. I'm expecting atheists to come out publicly to exhibit what they can do to benefit themselves and others.
So for now i'll reserve further comments until the effect of ATHEISM is felt everywhere just like that of Jehovah's Witnesses, for the main time i'm still one of Jehovah's Witnesses!

You have also seen the fruit of buda, note.

Richdad50:
If Brexit must happen, then it must be a hard Brexit. A total exit from Europe. Theresa wanted a Brexit that puts UK in the hands of bureaucratic Europe.
Britain must take its future now or forever be slaves to globalists and migration hawks. She never listened to Trump's advice on Brexit and now she is going to pay with her political future. Good riddance.

#Richdad

I told them. I said UK must completely leave Europe. Just pack all your things and go to Congo or Siberia or anywhere, just go. We're going now!

Elder0001:
you and braniacX are both lackers of wisdom.

Hey, thanks for letting me know.

TATIME:
You can't stand on both side my friend, you must stay in one place!

You forget that no one controls buda I can stand wherever the fuq I want!

TATIME:
The spirit of God is within you but still it shouldn't control a multiple of worshippers to do things uniformly,is that not preposterous?

See, you would rather I use the Spirit of God that you yourself identified as being within me to "control a multiple of worshippers to do things uniformly" ?! Amazing. That "uniformly", will it be from the Gospel according to buda who is power hungry and would dictate to everyone perhaps with the Holy Ghost that is supposed to free people from bondage? And you want buda to use that Jesuspower to make people uniform and incapable of expressing the Spirit of God that is uniquely breathed into every one of us. Is Jesus no more sitting on the right hand of God the Father judging the wicked and the dead?

Tatime I tell you the truth, if buda does what you suggest above buda will be in the hottest part of hell. Is that what you want, for buda to burn in hell?

TATIME:
Well JWs trained me and i can SEE what they're saying is happening for real in their midst so i strongly believe that God's spirit is within that single group!

And it's a good thing they did or you might not be as bright as you are. But if they told you or did anything to make you think the Lord God Almighty will only give the Spirit to Jws and Mr Leave all his lambs to look for one' just sat there and did not say "Excuse me Father! What of all those other people out there in the world", then I think they might of miseducated you about some very important things because, with your very own eyes, Tatime, you confessed the Spirit of God in an atheist!

TATIME:
How can someone who intends CONTROLLING people's minds belong to a faculty that abhors MIND CONTROLLING.
OK no wahala,atheists don't want to follow but desires to be followed!

Atheists want you to use your God given senses so you open your eyes and see instead of you allowing yourself to be controlled. Those who control you benefit from their control and that control is detrimental to the Godly progression of societies as it stops you from knowing the truth of your own existence which is that the Spirit of God is within you. Or is that not what is written?

You, Tatime, are preaching that the spirit of god is not even in yourself but within jws alone.

TATIME:
You're wise no doubt because you confirmed that Jesus actually said His own understanding of the scripture is the ONLY correct one,so whoever claims to be from that same faculty will say exactly the same thing!
So it's confirmed budaatum, you're truly WISE!

By the Mighty Name of Jesus Christ, the Uncontrolled Freeing Life Giving Atheist Son of God!

TATIME:
Jesus commissioned the program in a way that it's very easy to avoid your type by going straight to meet interested ones IN THEIR HOMES!
So my friend, we've got the ONLY correct understanding of the Bible that's why we confidently knock on your doors to come out face to face and exhibit that WISDOM you assumed you have!

Wisdom from the mouth of buda confounded you.

TATIME:
If you do of course you're doing a fine job, but it's the false Christians that you can disturb because our own preaching and teaching program is NOT on social media! Remember i told you that our own activities is from house to house just as Jesus commissioned it so your activities can't in anyway intercept our own because you're restricted to social media since you can't come to the public with your face saying " I don't believe in God and i don't want others to believe in God as well".
Tatime is just poking your bubbles as you're trying to discourage people from putting faith in the Bible!

There you go again making things up in your head and calling it reality despite there being copious amounts of evidence where not once have I asked you to abandon your god!

Keep your god! Just don't go about claiming your own understanding of the Bible is the only correct possible understanding. When you do, expect the likes of me to come set you straight!

TATIME:
What about when the audience are just like Tatime as in those who are searching for the institution to trust and surrender their life to as their controller?
Will you still come around to force your own ideas on them? Even while you're against pestering others to do what you're doing?

Am I going to jump in and tell them, "don't listen to that Tatime with his bible over science, he will just teach you to believe and be controlled! Come over here, do some use your two eyes science and be free"?

Yes Tatime, I will, with all my breath and with all my mind and all my body and all my soul and with all my energy and all my spirit and all my being and with every word that I write on here. Ignorance is a tool of the devil who controls and darkness is it's tool, while my duty is spit on mud make light so we can see.

TATIME:
That's my point!
So if you're you and i am me,why the debate? You can easily continue to be budaatum while i continue to be Tatime!
You feel there shouldn't be a mind controlling institution so walk away from it because you've "budaatum",i strongly believe in choosing an institution that i can wholeheartedly trust with all my life because I'm "Tatime".
So i don't have to pester,insult,criticise or ridicule you for your decision because you're you not me! Any attempt to start doing any of the above is tantamount to advocacy for MIND CONTROLLING!

Not quite true Tatime. Is it no more true the the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ releases people from control? If it is, why would a true follower of Christ be in bondage, and be trying to use the Christ giving release from bondage to bond others!?

I am claiming the Jesus Christ you claim you worship is a controlling Jesus and if we want to be honest such a Jesus is the type you called atheism and those who worship that way, atheists.

Stick with your textbook Tatime. Wherever I find you teaching it on here, buda your face!

TATIME:
That's what you're thinking my friend but it's not so!
You've been trying to cope with what you assumed the Bible teaches but it's not working so you decided to quit and look for a better means of enlightenment.
I have been searching for means of enlightenment and i discovered the TRUTH in the Bible.
Your teachers differs from mine,though you have more students than we do but there is no positive effects of what the teachers are teaching them,whereas just 8,000,000 students from my school are performing well in the society. So because your teachers failed in their duties doesn't prove that the TEXTBOOK is not up to the standard. Because over 8,000,000 students from another school are doing fine!
So if you tear,burn or throw away your textbooks, it's not reason enough for me to do the same!
That's my point!

TATIME:
@budaatum
Please try developing interest in carefully studying the people around you and think about what motivates their speeches, expressions and worships.

I do have a lot of interest in people Tatime. Stop making up crap to believe in your head, check first!

This is buda.

When I meet people, I do not begin thinking about their motivations. Looking for motivation implies that I don't trust people and like I need to look over my shoulders all the time. I don't do that! I'm not paranoid like you.

And what if I read the wrong meaning that didn't exist into peoples "speeches, expressions and worships"? Am I not certain I have made that mistake in the past and might make it again?

What I do do is I trust people, ta, and goodness and mercy me.

TATIME:
The indisputable TRUTH is~
THERE IS NO SANE INDIVIDUAL THAT'S ABSOLUTELY FREE FROM MIND CONTROLLING!

You, Tatime, could possibly know an indisputable truth even if it jumped up and sat on your head?
Listen to yourself lol.

TATIME:
Emi ko o! Bibeli ni OLOJU kan ti no lero pe eyin nso. Boya tori pe gbogbo ohun to so lao le foju ri bayii.To ba se bii temi ni mio mo nkankan oooooo. Bibeli ni no diro mo!

So you, want to use the bible to make you king of all of us here?

Ta, just so we're clear. There are 2eyes, 1eye and noeye right? In case you just happened to not have looked around you, in this neighbourhood some 2eyes are 2eyeglasses, and 2eyecontacts, and 2eyemicroscope, 2eyetelescope, 2eyeradioscope, 2eyesatellite and 2eyeprobetothefurthestedgesoftheuniverse even.

I buda is saying, you, Tatime, in this neighbourhood, with your Bible and your JW and your version of Jesus, just so we are clear, is noholesforeyes. You there trying to be lord over all us 2eyes with 2 eyes that actually work with your noholesforeyesjw! I spit mud in your eye, ta! Just so were clear.

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmmm Sugbon nilu awon afoju,oloju kan l'Oba ooooo.

Nkan ti iwo ko fe gba ni wipe oloju meji na wa ni ilu awon afoju ni ibi ti iwo oloju kan ti fe j'oba!

TATIME:
You can tell me anywhere on this planet where each inhabitants proves to be absolutely free from mind controlling? Or better still someone you and i can recognise that's absolutely free from mind controlling?

Amazing! Over on another thread, Tatime is telling me people are controlled, and here is you telling me everyone believes things, but I bet neither of you would see the connection between beliefs and control!

Anyway, I've told you 9, about my beliefs, and I'm telling you Tatime that Christ's whole time on earth was to free people from the control of the religious leaders who used false beliefs to control them. Serpents who give stones, is a phrase that comes to my mind.

Not everyone has beliefs that lack foundation and not all fall for being controlled! If you widen your views a bit you both might see this

9inches:
Not paraphrasing you. I'm saying that.

Amazing! Over on another thread, Tatime is telling me people are controlled, and here is you telling me everyone believes things, but I bet neither of you would see the connection between beliefs and control!

Anyway, I've told you 9, about my beliefs, and I'm telling you Tatime that Christ's whole time on earth was to free people from the control of the religious leaders who used false beliefs to control them. Serpents who give stones, is a phrase that comes to my mind.

Not everyone has beliefs that lack foundation and not all fall for being controlled! If you widen your views a bit you both might see this.

cool318:
http://www.informationng.com/2018/04/breaking-news-police-commission-promotes-magu-one-dig-2-aigs-15-others.html#

The new promotion was contained in a statement by Ikechukwu Ani, a spokesperson for the PSC.

Read the full announcement below:

PRESS RELEASE

PSC APPROVES PROMOTION OF 18 SENIOR POLICE OFFICERS, OSHODI-GLOVER, DIG, GHAZZALI MOHAMMED, PEACE IBEKWE ABDALLAH, AIGs, MAGU, ONYEAGORO, GBOLARUMI, CPs

The Police Service Commission has approved the promotion of eighteen senior Police Officers. The promotions are one of the high points of the Commission’s 27thPlenary Meeting which ended in Abuja today, Friday, April 20th, 2018. The Meeting was presided over by the Commission’s Chairman Sir. Dr. Mike Mbama Okiro, a retired Inspector General of the Police.

The Commission approved the promotion of AIG Agbola Oshodi-Glover in charge of Zone 11, Osogbo, to the next rank of a Deputy Inspector General of Police.

CP Ghazzali Mohammed, Commissioner of Police, Administration, DLS, Force Headquarters and CP Peace Ibekwe Abdallah, former Commissioner of Police, Ebonyi State Command and currently , CP, Force Intelligence Bureau, Force Headquarters were promoted to Assistant Inspector General of Police.

The acting Chairman of the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission, EFCC, DCP Ibrahim Mustapha Magu, DCP Ebere C. Onyeagoro, DCP Administration, Kaduna State Command and DCP Moshood O. Gbolarumi, DCP Maritime, Lagos, were promoted to the next rank of Commissioner of Police.

Other promotions approved by the Commission include; one Assistant Commissioner of Police to Deputy Commissioner of Police, Nine Chief Superintendents of Police to assistant Commissioners of Police, one Deputy Superintendent of Police to Superintendent of Police, one assistant Superintendent of Police to Deputy Superintendent of Police and one Inspector to assistant Superintendent of Police.

Chairman of the Commission, Dr. Okiro congratulated the newly promoted officers and urged them to rededicate themselves to the service of their fatherland. He assured them that the Commission will continue to pay attention to their basic entitlements which include regular promotions.

Ikechukwu Ani
Head, Press and Public Relations
Friday, April, 20th, 2018

I wrote a A Child's View in opposition to your opposition to the metaphorical view. You got me wondering if you oppose the literal view, the fundamental view, Conservative view, Liberal, Symbolical, Ethical, Mystical, eschatological, gnostical, hermeneutic and the atheistic view too, and I thought, why look through one eye if one can even change lenses?

XxSabrinaxX:
Cultural Christians are just atheists that value the Bible or their cultural norms. Calling religion a metaphor (particularly where it can't be defended, rationalize, justified, downplayed, or ignored) just weakens theism overall, in exchange for dismissing criticism and invalidating scrutiny.

Here is a problem with religion being called a metaphor (namely by apologists), that no one seems to acknowledge or realize. Being culturally Christian (in I would say a conventional sense) is the same as being an atheist (whether agnostic or gnostic) who emphasizes value of the Bible (this applies to other religions as well of course, such as Islam). After all, most often when someone says that they are culturally religious, they are saying that they don't actually, genuinely believe in a literal God (which makes them admitted atheists) but they act as if they do. It doesn't matter if they don't like being called atheist, the term still (technically) applies. Also, if parts of your religion are increasingly becoming metaphorical over generations isn't that a sign that it's declining / receding?

Also, aren't people who believe religion is just a metaphor basically atheists?

Like they can call themselves "culturally Christian" (they don't actually genuinely believe in God but they act as if they do) but unless they genuinely believe in a literal God, then you can also call them "atheists who value the Bible", and isn't this a bad thing for (Christian) theism long term? They're usually agnostic atheists sure (as opposed to gnostic atheists), but they're atheist nonetheless. As I've mentioned, term atheist (technically) applies whether they like it or not.

Furthermore, calling parts of the bible metaphorical (for whatever reason) doesn't actually solve issues with the bible, and as mentioned, weakens theism (a genuine belief in a literal God). Calling Christianity a metaphor may net you less criticism and scrutiny of Christianity but in exchange the tactic is actually encouraging an atheism that values Christianity without actually solving issues in the bible that tend to cause people to become atheist.

Lastly isn't it more likely the case that parts of the bible become more metaphorical as they can increasingly no longer be defended or reconciled (whether by an entire christian denomination or an individual believer) and also, this begs the question, "...a metaphor for what?" Which itself prompts one to ask, "whose interpretation is correct?" (metaphorical or literal).

And isn't it a bit disingenuous to say that anyone taking any particularly part of the bible as literal is being ridiculous? After all, the person reading the text literally has an inherent advantage in their interpretation as they have to justify it less. Besides, Christianity in pass was much more fundamentalist as a whole than it is now (which indicates a decline in the belief). After all, Christians individually and collectively (and in between) have, do, and will take different parts of the bible literally and others as a metaphor. What I am saying is, if at some point something was generally accepted as literal, but as generations past and it is revealed to be barbaric, ignorant, etc., and it become a metaphor, does this not call into question the validity of the religion?

Like imagine doing that with more central doctrine like the resurrection of Jesus, or the existence of God itself. Imagine if you said those were just metaphors and no Christian actually believes in them literally and anyone who thinks that Christians believe that Jesus literally rose from the dead and that God actually exists were being ridiculous, uncharitable, ignorant, or disingenous? Not only is it disrespectful, it's not true. And if that ever becomes the general doctrine, wouldn't that too at that point be an implicit admission that belief in God (and other central doctrine) is irrational?

Well that's how it comes off when you call religion metaphorical; like an implicit admission of irrationality and atheism.

What are your thoughts on all this?

Cc budaatum, HellVictorinho, LordReed, TheArranger, Dantedasz, MhizAngel99, truefact, elated177, Vic2Ree, TATIME, frosbel2, solite3, sonmvayina

P.S. To cut down on strawmen or misunderstandings before they crop up. I don't think all Christians of the past took all of the bible literally (though they generally took more of it literally than today). Just saying.