₦airaland Forum

EmperorHarry:
1.The use of Adam and eve as reference should be discontinued at this point cos it hold no water...The fruit of goof and evil cannot be the bible and would never be...They are two very distant things with no relation whatsoever
2.The bible only supports the law but without it laws would have being...This is undeniable true...For example civilizations who didn't know the bible existed still had it's laws and if they were broken,the perpetrators were duly punished according to the law...The bible keeps humanity in check at a greater level,not just the bible tho the Quran and other religious books... So you can say it benefits law and order...
3. I'm pretty sure I'll keep pondering cos that's all we humans can ever do...The truths about our and the universe can never really be fully understood or found within it...all we can do is ponder

But it does hold water, to little children. It is however a tool of bad parenting (like the whip). So yes, lets get rid of it by educating parents to be better.

As I mentioned, I used 'bible' very loosely to mean ancient religious law, which I am claiming, every society had.

Please know that pondering (seeking), leads to a conclusion.


Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]" Gospel of Thomas

delpee:
Overflogged issue! We don tire!! E don do!!!
They're all adults, what they do together is their problem.

With your tithe?

Tellemall:
Further diversion:
Evading taxes is amoral.

What other compass do you have apart from morality as an atheist?

Being an atheist has nothing to do with my morality! My morals stem from the fact that I am a living being.

I would not like it if you slapped me because it would hurt me so I expect you would not like being slapped because it may hurt you. Same reason why I would not steal from you. But if you do steal from me, I will call the cops on you, and if there's no cops, I will get some really big dudes to beat the living daylights out of you. That should teach you some morals, if you didn't have any already.

I can't beat a fraudulent tax man, but I sure as hell can get me a damn good accountant to help me keep my money out of his thieving hands.

Tellemall:
Even if it's against the law or your better conscience?

That's basically the issue people have with tithing. It's considered an instruction/warning (read law) and against that people still do not wish to pay it for various reasons, chiefest of which is that their pastors will be stealing their money.

If you are truly a just person of integrity who aims to run a lawful business, you should pay tax (theoretically) and not try to evade it. When you do, it is not for you to appropriate what you wish to for your taxes and that of others. This is because it shifts from your possession to that of the appropriate body. It's the government's jurisdiction to use it as they see fit.

If at the end of the day they are found to be fraudulent and diverting taxes for personal enrichment, you do not stop paying taxes. As you say, you vote in a new person you feel will manage it better because that is the law under democracy. You continue to dutifully pay your taxes. Otherwise you will face the law, whether you believe in its potency or not. It's the basis under which you as a citizen of an earth nation will be judged.

The same goes for Christians. A Christian gives to the church not because the church will use it for what they feel they want the church to use it for -after all, many Christians do not know the true amount of bodies functioning within a church and the grants/donations a church receives alongside tithes. But a Christian does so because as a Christian that is the governing instruction, and does so happily because they wish to be on the right side of heavenly law. They are always free to default, though.

However, there is no truly free meal.

The church is accountable to it's own governing body, and that is God. Heaven isn't a democracy. It's not going to have it's laws voted out because we like or don't like parts of what it entails.


But it doesn't matter. Do as you please. Everyone has their own ideas about things. Do that which you know is good, true and just.

You may not stop paying tax if it is being used fraudulently, but I see it as my duty to evade paying tax to people who don't use it for what it was appropriated for. And not only do I vote those fraudulent people out, I campaign against them and run for office myself. I guess I see myself as one of those to who a lot has been given. A lot more than just voting out fraudsters is required of me.

My god gives me my wealth for me to be a steward over it so I am accountable to my god as to how it is spent. I ensure my money goes where my god would be pleased its gone or it may be going where some false god wants it to go!

But, as you've said, we do as we please.

OLAADEGBU:
Are atheists qualified to speak on Christianity?

I'm a opening my mouth. I gonna talk about god. The Christian god specific. I'm sure Grace qualifies me. Her skirt done it.

Nice try shutting up atheists op. They tried shutting up Christ too, but he resurrected on the third day or so. As for me, I shall not die but live everlastingly, despite all efforts.

EmperorHarry:
1.The bible clearly wasn't in existence when Adam and eve ate the "fruit"..so that's not valid
2.No matter how well constructed a law is there would always be law breakers and given that the commandments are written in a BOOK! without any natural consequence except the theory that they will be judged by a supreme being we do not see...the more reason for law breakers to see it as irrelevant
3. I'm not sure there was a thing called bible at that time or if the word had been coined...so it's probably the scriptures or scrolls? Don't really know what it was called but the point is the temptation of Jesus was not really examined critically by me until this year when i realized he wasn't really tempted...like it's just giving more reasons for me to believe that the bible is just another book of literature cos it clearly stated in verse 1 that he was going to the wilderness to be tempted...like he knew he was gonna tempted..i don't think people see this tho or examine it critically amd constructively,You may not even know
4.The ultimate truth is the fact that this book can be used and twisted to benefit smart individuals who want to use the head of the ignorant ones
4.The art is to learn from it- I 100% agree with this,cos i think without it the balance between good and evil would not be...This is one the reasons i still espouse it

I use the word loosely. In Adam and Eve's (if there ever was such a) time, the bible was, "and of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat".

Yes people make, and break laws. I've written how I'd break the tax law if my money weren't spent wisely. And the consequence wouldn't stop me. But imagine a society without laws, one where we could take what each other had without recourse to the law upholders. Neither of us would be able to go earn our daily bread because we'd be watching out least the other crept in and stole what we had. I guess we'd eventually starve to death. Thankfully, if I rob your house, you can have me arrested.

I'm personally glad the book is not perfect and Jesus intentionally goes to be tempted, and you are pondering it. If it were perfect, on what would you be pondering and thereby exercising and developing your mind? One day you will come to inform me how far you got with your pondering, and please do. I sincerely want to know.

It can also be used to ensure one does not perish. For know, the evildoers sure as hell have read it, as is shown in the temptation.

Martinez19:
Nonsense. There is nothing too hard for God to do yet he couldn't give person admission. You might say he didn't read but as an all powerful being, I could have planted the knowledge in his head or better still prepare him ahead of time. You might say the scripts got misplaced by the handlers hence not God's fault but as an all powerful being, I could have caused the scripts to disappear and appear with other script or prevent it from missing in the first place. You might say it is corruption on the system but would you say the system is powerful than yahweh? Hmmmm seems I would do better than Yahweh if I was all powerful and Dannyfan prayed to me. Surely there is no excuse for an all powerful God.

And indeed, if there was a god then what the fuq was he doing that he could not overcome whatever obstacle prevented Dannyfan from getting admission? But maybe Dannyfan prayed at the wrong time, or didn't pray properly, or not enough, or in a language displeasing to god at the time, or, just saving his admission for some later date when he would benefit from it more.

So Dannyfan, I strongly advised, to be a bit more worldly and not just rely on god. Maybe he should come to see you Martinez19. He can say god done it, and mean you in his heart.

Tellemall:
Then why are people so worried about the money they give in church, if they attend weekly meetings?

Why are people worried about their taxes being misused if they're in the country where they pay the taxes?

Aren't they all right there?

Why is the exception taken to giving in church if all are givings?

Aren't all bodies held accountable? Or is there something worse about tithing and not knowing who is gobbling it?

If people in the orphanage wish to enrich themselves, your presence there as a volunteer or monitor won't change it.

You must agree that what they do with it afterwards isn't your business. All you know is that you gave it to an orphanage/charity in good faith.

The same goes for tithes.

Give if you wish to. Don't if it's not for you. But to paint it that pastors are thieves is strange.

People claiming they don't want to give tithes in a church because it will enrich pastors are still giving it to bodies that have leaders who will still enrich themselves from it.

BTW: My post that you quoted wasn't meant for you, so this isn't going anywhere. Thi is merely a diversion of sorts.

And if you don't mind the diversion, I am honoured.

People are worried about what the church does with their money for a reason. I would too if my pastor were getting richer by the day and poverty were increasing around me. And I'm not suggesting my tithing is for my personal enrichment. Reason tells me that putting a tenth of my earnings in an investment fund will grow it into a sizeable pot if I left it long enough.

If my taxes were being misspent, l consider myself duty bound to pay as little of it as I can get away with. If my donations to an orphanage were being misspent, I am duty bound to find an orphanage that does a better job with my money. And if my pastor were doing what I want him to do with my money, I will not just pay a tithe, I will invest my time to. After all, I would be doing the work of my lord and my god almighty, albeit through and with the help of my pastor.

It is because they are accountable to me, the tither, that I get to have a say, and it is irresponsible of me not to know where my money were going. Just imagine if I were some sort of anti-abortionist, or opposed to homohomo and my pastor were sending my money to homohomo abortion clinics! Would I not deserve to burn in a hell that my god throws such people in? Damnit! Through my negligence and irresponsibility, I would have been buying a ticket to that hell thinking I was going to heaven!

Please note, if I don't like how a government spends my taxes, I get to vote for someone who spends my money like I like. Same with my pastor. If he's buying jets, and I'd rather my money fed the poor, I move my ass from his church to a feed the poor with my money church.

Thanks for diverting.

EmperorHarry:
<html><head></head><body>Kudos mhan for the unbiased way and really sensible way you replied,i applaud you for that
But truth is i am a very huge fan of the bible when it comes to it's values and positive things you can actually gain from it but the thing i don't concur with is the control the people who wrote it are trying to have over humanity, it's so controlling to the point that people who tried to challenge, enlighten humanity over the clear faults in the "Holy Book" where killed by the Christian leaders of the 18th or 19th century
It's like they were trying to stop movements that will spell doom for the control they have over humanity.
And also the last statement you made was really funny cos I'm pretty sure it's 10001℅false

The bible in its own right does not control anyone. If it could do that, Adam and Eve would never have eaten a fruit, nor would anyone go against the ten commandments or not love their fellow human being and their god.

People try to use it though, and there are copious chapters one could use, for the good or the bad. The temptation of Christ is a classic. The devil was quoting from the bible.

The art is to learn from it, and for that, its one of the best books. The works of Shakespeare or the Fables of Aesop may serve the same purpose, except the first isn't as clear as the bible, and the second is rather juvenile.

Interesting15:
You are not an atheist my dear. You are an agent of satan!

And you must be some sort of omniknowitall sort of person!

I feel you trembling in fear.

Tellemall:
That's not what the poster I mentioned was saying.

That poster mentioned "giving" to orphanages, specifically, not spending time.

How is it suddenly about spending time?

Read that post and correlate it with mine.

If you're scared of enriching pastors, be scared of enriching orphanage home directors.

I can read! If you are concerned your gift to an orphanage is being misspent, invest your time by volunteering in the orphanage to ensure it isn't. In fact, forget giving the orphanage money. Give your time instead! I'm certain you'd make sure its not misused.

Tellemall:
What if the directors of the orphanage home are enriching themselves, having trips around the place, living large in private off that money/food/whatever? What's the difference in this self-righteous act?

Spare us.

So, you just want to drop your money and be done with it? Do you know that 8 hours is a tenth of your weekly awake time? If you gave that time to the orphanage would you not see where your money were going? Or should you not tithe with your time too?

Interesting15:
So you are not even a Christian. And you want to teach Christians how to serve their God? What is the meaning of all these rubbish?

I am an atheist. Isn't it amazing that I get to teach you how to serve your god? Did your god not say he will raise even stones to 'worship' him if you don't?

Prophecy, dude. What a pity! You should rent your cloth and cover your head in ashes.

malvisguy212:
........In mark 14:3-9. daddy freeze would've call Jesus a fraud. but did you know what Jesus is doing there? He was contrasting the faith of the woman,the woman is proven the evidence of faith.

Mark 14:3-9 has nothing to do with tithes. And no one is saying one should not spend ones money on a 'fraud'. Just know where you are putting your money. Would you not call it fraud if Judas had gone about collecting money in Jesus name?

OBIGS:
i don't see it that way. Why won't that gesture to the church help elongate his life

It is not that way! If it was, people with lots of money would buy everlasting life and health.

Dannyfan:
no reason u know how Nigeria system is with irregularities

Indeed I do. In the days of common entrance I passed, having always been top two in primary school, only to have my name wiped off the next day. a cousin of mine sat a promotion exam at work only to be told they lost his paper.

In the gospels is a story about a man who told his accountant to come show him his accounts. The accountant went to those who he'd lent money to and ask them to pay half of it pronto. You must be wise in your dealings and not leave it all to god.

Dannyfan:
i made everything, i got admitted by Jamb last year n gv out my credentials as a tradition in Nigeria n wasn't admitted by d sch

And what reason were you given for not being admitted?

BluntBoy:
No, they don't. The fact that Christians have become even more materialistic than the "people of the world" is enough to believe that Satan has conquered the world. We need God urgently.

Therein lays the problem.

What is 'God'?

OBIGS:
in 2010 my uncle was was given a message by a pastor that God wants him to sow a seed with his brand new jeep, he finally gave the church pastor the car. 6 months later my uncle passed away. Till today I don't still comprehend how.

He bought a one way ticket to heaven.

timmydent:
I was just strolling round my church today and just went to the children's department and I was listening to their lecture; then I heard something that captivated my attention. The teacher told the the children that Adam and eve ate the forbidden apple.
That really caught my attention but I didn't even made the attempt to correct the teacher because I wasn't even sure my self if truly it was an apple they ate.
To cut the story short, I went into the Bible

Good news bible: genesis 2:16 says "He told him, “You may eat the fruit of any tree in the garden, 17 except the tree that gives knowledge of what is good and what is bad. You must not eat the fruit of that tree; if you do, you will die the same day.”

King James Bible: genesis 2:16 says "And the Lord commanded the man, saying, of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat 17 but the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die "

Many individuals believe Adam and eve ate apple but it is false

Unfortunately, those little kids will develop an idea in their heads the the fruits of knowledge of good and evil is a bad fruit and they need to stay away from it. Can you see how they will not become like gods knowing the difference between good and evil?

It is a pity that the wool is pulled over their eyes. Thank god for the coming of Christ, and Martin Luther. The Bible would have remained in the so called godly language of Latin and people would really still be n*aked!

sentalfa:
doG did it.

Dog gid ti

BluntBoy:
We need God back in the hearts of Christians. The love of money has taken over their love for God. That is what happens when Christians refuse to search for the truth themselves.

They store up wealth that moths eat instead of seeking the Kingdom of God! Guess they haven't a clue what the Kingdom is.

feelgoodInc:
Jews do not pay tithes why?

The 'good' ones amongst them do, they just don't pay it to a temple/church. They use their resources to help their community. It is the reason they are so successful and the envy of others.

Do remember that the mosaic law had numerous edicts about helping the poor. They observe that and accept that it must be pleasing to God.

malvisguy212:
You Guy's have successfully helping the devil in diverting the weightier matter of the law (salvation) and show more emphasis on issue that are not necessary to salvation.
tithing is the evidence of faith ,tithing is trusting one God, just as Abraham trust God when he was called to offer his only son Isaac..what 100% cannot solved, can 10% solved?

Believe this and you would believe anything. Where does it say tithing is evidence of faith? If you were giving your money to the needy and helpless, I'd accept you were showing love, which I could accept is evidence of your faith, but giving it to an already wealthy pastor is just you trying to buy favor of your pastor. I bet when you give it, you make sure everyones sees you doing so!

Spend your money doing your gods will if you may, but don't you dare think you are giving to god when you give to your church, unless they are using it to help those in need, of course. If your resources are not building a new Jerusalem in your community, it is building hell in it!

EmperorHarry:
First off the bible doesn't proffer wisdom only confusion hence the division in the Christian religon
2.You don't need to study the bible to know that most beliefs associated with Christianity is all lies and in a bid to keep the masses in ignorance cos once they become enlightened you lose control over them,and tithing is one of the greatest scams in Christianity

Unfortunately, you, my good friend, are very wrong. I wonder if you have read Alice Through the Looking Glass? There is no doubt that Alice never fell down a hole, but as Humpty Dumpty said, "words still mean exactly what I say they mean, no more no less".

If you have read stories told where the tortoise and the hare speak, you would not claim they are untrue, despite knowing full well animals do not speak. I put it to you that it is what those stories teach that is true, and not whether tortoises and hare speak. It is the same with the bible. It teaches something that is true and beneficial to humankind, however, believing it is not the lesson. If you were honest, you would admit when you were a child, you believed as a child but as you grew you discarded childish beliefs. Your beliefs effectively evolved, and some beliefs you would have discarded. That is called growth, and that's what the bible helps you do.

Believe me, without religious texts, you would remain mere mud waiting to evolve into an ape and never to become a human being.

The arguments about tithes is a funny one. How people can claim their giving to a church or pastor to buy a jet is a gift to god befuddles me. Do people really think god needs their money, or that if they use their money to help someone in need, their god would be displeased? Does scripture not say "in as much as you have done unto these that you see, suffice. There is no other word to describe the idiots but to call you sheep, I am afraid.

You should be using what your god gives you to glorify that god by building a godly society. I would suggest you spend a tenth of your earnings helping those who are in need. A god that doesn't like that is not worthy of being worshipped. And individuals who can't see reason in that deserve to be parted with their money.

And if you have so much to give to a pastor, perhaps the government should tax you more and use it to build roads, fix schools and electrify the nation!

Long live Daddy Freeze!

Dannyfan:
I am now having a rethink of my faith, it start just recently. It now bother my mind whether God exist. I just think it start when i wasn't admitted to school last year, after alot of prayer.
Making my faith a pretending one, just to do as majority to be acceptable in our society. Many reason making me to want an atheist view, but just have to say main.
So i need a convincing encouragement that God really exist. I was born to worship God in a christian home and know believing Him have help many other. Mind you i am committed but always full with doubt of existence of God.
Help my dying faith

What you are after is a miracle. If you had done all that was necessary to get you into school, surely you would have gained admission. There after all are many people who got into school without prayers. Did you have exams? Did you pray more than study?

I don't know what stopped your admission. Maybe you don't have the grades, didn't apply in time, chose the wrong school or course or numerous other reasons, but I advise you to solve these problems and you will be in school.

Incrizz:
That's what I'm saying.
All your internet devices are all talking to Sophia.

All your device cameras, device GPS are all talking to Sophia, whether your GPS is on or not.

This is the stage of information gathering for Sophia.

She is reading your tweets and posts and what have you.

And what's more, the more she interacts, the more intelligent she is becoming until it declares itself to be know-all or God Himself!

They are going to invoke the spirit of the dragon onto it.

The are already making biotissues for it's skin and all.

If your Church teaches you that God is a woman, be very careful. You may just be in an Antichrist Church.


Your smart TVs, these are all part of the dark sinister plan...

I guess smart people in Nigeria are making sure they don't become too powerful. Just imagine what would happen if we had continuous electricity! They'd be in our brains already!

Incrizz:
They have your finger prints, they have your biometric info through these devices, be it through finger lock or eyelock or whatever lock this "witnessing" devices have.

They have your internet use too.

The best business plan is Genesis 1. It is the template with which God created all things so it will be good enough for you. Do know that whatever others may tell you, a day is like a thousand years, so patience is required and money may not flow in immediately. Expect at least a thousand hours.

You need 12 people who will be disciples. 11 have to dote on you and call you father. You may be unfortunate that the twelfth opposes and betrays you, but it's all good as it helps with publicity.

Start a bible study group (even if you do not have 12 people). Ask those who attend to bring their friends. While the temptation may be to tell people what God said, don't! Use your ears more than your mouth. God will use the mouths of the disciples to show you the path to follow, and besides, they are more likely to let there be light if their knowledge is used in saying 'let light be'.

Know to not be literal. It is a good start because literalism would make you inflexible, which may result in you being cornered. You must also be rigid, as in not flexible at all. Do note the paradox, your words must be open to numerous meanings and a single meaning at the same time, and if people do not get it, tell them to repent, be humble, and accept Jesus Christ into their lifes'.

You will need the Gospel according to Luke, and herein comes the money. You will be a new group, and while everyone will have a Bible, they may have different copies so tell people to donate and use the money to buy bibles. You will need 12. Those who have committed to buying the 12 bibles are buying in. New members can buy their own when they join. Do note that the Bible is like a membership card, so encourage members to buy in. You will do wise to buy wholesale and let them have it at retail. If its cheaper than they can get it outside, that's better. It will encourage outsiders to become members. And by the time you finish studying the Gospel according to Luke, you will receive the Holy Spirit, if God accepts you as one of his, that is, and you will receive further instructions.

But remember, unless your builder is God, you will be building on sand.