₦airaland Forum

@DrummaBoy, weldone

@OP, I think you have enough materials from all advice proffered here to help your friends make a decision. Its not such a big deal if both of them know tithing is NOT important to the Christian life.

When I told my wife I stopped tithing, she was aghast and very afraid for our finances. However when she got a job some few months after and saw that I didn't lose my job as she expected, she relaxed. I didn't make it a law for her to stop and she didn't even let me know when she stopped though she still reserves 10% for God's work(as she calls it), but Mal 3:8-12 no longer scares her.

I pray your friends realise God needs them as a whole sacrifice to him, not just 10% of their cash.

Budgeting is the key my man. You and your wife must learn how to abide by a budget and whatever your needs, learn to save at least 10% of your monthly salary. In addition to saving for the rainy day, it teaches u discipline.

Your babe is your wife now so she should understand if you can't wow her as you used to do before.

My bro 'wiseman no dey use all 10 fingers chop o' I believe u understand

Cheers

[quote author=Bidam][/quote]Actually Bidam, I realise you can't help me hence I didn't direct any question to you. What you put up there is pure verbosity. You make the mistake of assuming the more you write, the more correct you become.

My bro, we could have a discussion if you want but I will plead you keep it simple and short. The truth comes out more easily that way. If however, you're doing me a teaching, I'll be glad to just sit and listen.

God bless

Gombs: Mark 16v15 Jesus said

17 And these signs will accompany those
who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;


don't you think you are confused and confusing Paul's writings?

1Cor 14:22
'Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe'

Is the above in your bible?

you mean now if God sends me to brazil or saudi arabia to preach, he'd install portuguese or arabic instantly? See mega confusion abeg. Reinhard Boonke has being preaching all over the world, why did he have interpreters in most cases? Is it that God is delaying installing the languages or is it that he's not believed enough?

You are the one screaming gift of tongues. You should tell me why Bonkke has not being given that gift displayed by the apostles on the day of Pentecost.Paul didn't need interpreters, why did God forget to give you or Bonkke that particular gift?

Show off?? Lol
So if I wanna pray in tongues I shd whisper it because I don't want you to think I'm showing off? When paul was saying I speak in tongues more than you all, it wasn't showing off shey?



1 corinth 14v15 NIV
15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

Did he tell u he did it in the congregation? He expressly said he'll rather speak 5 words in the church than disturb others with his gift of tongues. From that statement, I can confidently and unequivocally say Paul NEVER spoke tongues that others couldn't understand in church.read 1Cor 14:19 again

must you argue?

The same question I was going to ask you, must you argue?

When we discuss like this, its evident we might not convince each other but there are others who will read and go check with their bibles. Those are my audience bro

Gombs: Na wa o

Didn't you see me write praying in tongues is diff from speaking (preaching) in tongues

Oya quick quiz...did paul pray in tongue? Did he preach in tongues to the congregation?
In churches today, do they pray in tongues or preach in tongues?

I await your answers

My dear bro, Paul expressly said tongues are a sign for unbelivers: he used tongues when preaching to natives of the different places he went for evangelism. A mature believer knows tongues are useless in the congregation of the righteous and Paul was mature. If he prayed in tongues, its strictly between him and God and he would never have brought it to show off in Church.

My bro, u see pastors today spice up their preaching with tongues and some even sing in tongues leaving the congregants confused and bewildered. Am sure u know all these

Gombs: True !
Prophecy does more good WHILE PREACHING/TEACHING than speaking in tongues. I don't doubt that, Paul said so in 1 corint 14v5

Dnt get confused na. There's no place in the bible anybody preached in tongues...No place in Nigeria anybody does that too(but maybe in the near future, the church of God would)...but people in the bible PRAYED IN TONGUES...na wa o

Hope you get the two? If you don't understand praying in tongues, pls what did you think Jude 20 was talking abt? And 1 corinth 14v14-15?

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

Jude 20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,


Notice in 1corith 14 paul spoke abt speaking in tongues, praying in tongues, praising in tongues and singing in tongues. It was wen comparing prophesy which is teaching/preaching the brethren and using tongues to preach-he tried pointing out which would be beneficial more.

Get the diff pls.
I pray in tongues like paul did, and I don't preach in tongues like Paul didn't . But your case looks like I'm teaching/preaching in tongues

I am glad you accepted that prophecy is greater than tongues in the congregation of believers. If you read 1Cor 14 all thru, Paul wasn't bothered whether it was praying in tongues or preaching in tongues(whatever that means). The summary of the chapter is that in the gathering of believers, pls pocket your tongues except someone can interprets otherwise you're a nuisance to the church.

As per Jude 20, I wonder how praying in the holy ghost translates to speaking in tongues. Am still on my phone now and can't really do a long treatise.

Cheers

Bidam: Hehehe..funny you of all people should say that.Apart from the deity of Christ and tithes,could you show me which other threads i was doing gymnastics on? Wrong assessment of me really.

Haba Bidam I won't take up this challenge. The last time I dug up your past posts to explain something to you, you accused me of a lack of humour, remember

Ok! my apologies really.

Apologies accepted

We bless God for that,I noticed you attacked prayers and fasting as works in that convention.Could you please explain why it is so

I didn't attack prayers and fasting my bro. I only showed that the Christian lifestyle lived in love has more effect on preaching the gospel than fasting and prayers. You know your neighbour is more likely to be won to Christ by your live than your show of fasting and prayers.

God bless u bro

Gombs: Two scenarios here

1. So, in other words, he was wrong in 1 corinth 14 verse 2 AMP?

For one who speaks in an [unknown] tongue speaks not to men but to God, for no one understands or catches his meaning , because in the [Holy] Spirit he utters secret truths and hidden things [not obvious to the understanding].

From your analogy of one being greater than the other, Is speaking to men higher than speaking to God?

2. Paul was simply saying in verse 5 that he wish that we might all speak in [unknown] tongues, but more especially [he wants us] to prophesy (to be inspired to preach and interpret the divine will and purpose).


WHY?
Because speaking in tongues according to verse 2 is speaking unto God and not men. Speaking in tongues won't edify the other, because you are speaking to God not man, and men would not understand what you are saying because their understanding would be unfruitful (v14) . Except that you can interpret the tongues so that the brethren can be edified.

He went further and said that he who prophesies [who is inspired to preach and teach] is greater (more useful and more important to the brethren at the time of preaching/teaching) than he who speaks in [unknown] tongues,



WHY? Because he who prophesy speaks unto men and not God. He is teaching and preaching, that the brethren would be edified. That's why in my other post above, I said there is NO PLACE in the bible Paul or anybody preached or taught in tongues. Simply because according to verse 2 above no one will understand or catch his meaning.

He went further to say that unless he should(the one speaking in tongues) interpret [what he says], so that the church may be edified and receive good from it .

You see why you need study the scriptures by the holyspirit?

Imagine your pastor preaching in unknown tongues, would you be edified at d end of the service?

Brother, your write up is actually begging the question.i Ccalled tongues a lesser gift and you questioned it by asking which was a worse sin in Gal 5:19-21. I gave you the bible's position on the issue. If the bible calls it a lesser gift, my bro I believe it because that is what it is.

God is more interested in the greater good of his children and prophecy does more good than speaking in tongues(in a congregation of believers) will ever do.

God bless u

Bidam: It is really a shame that you had to rush in and support an article without reading the contents as a bible scholar that you claim you are. And to say this is the guy that taught us in the grace convention.Chei!

Actually Bidam, I read every single part of that write up and I agree with it fully. You know you're the best at jumping and running around threads like the proverbial bull in a china shop.I really don't have that much energy

You say I claim to be a bible scholar.well let me laugh @ u since I believe you are only trying to poke fun, otherwise I believe you & I have talked extensively on this forum and I've NEVER made any claim

As per teaching you at the convention, its the grace of God

Gombs: I answered him too well, and asked him a question too in hope you and/or him would answer.

See the question
In a list of sinful activities recorded in Galatians 5:19-21 , murder is named near the end of the list. Does that mean that murder is a less serious sin than the others? Does it mean he listed the gifts of the spirit in a particular order of relevance?
.

See what the bible said
1Cor 14:5
'I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied:for greater is he that prophesied than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interprete, that the church may receive edifying'

My bro, this verse makes it clear some gifts will always be greater than tongues. Paul said you should rather crave prophesy which is actually preaching than speaking tongues as you then become of more value to the church than when u speak in tongues.

He then goes on to to tell u & me in verse 20 to stop being children by craving tongues when there are greater and more beneficial gifts like prophesy.

For example, a child craves ice cream instead of EBA because ice cream is sweet and fanciful but an adult knows EBA and vegetable soup will do more good to growth than ice cream. I hope this explains it better.

Typing on my phone so can't be more lucid than this

God bless

Alwaystrue: @Candour,
Thanks for your post. I was not referring to grace as license but the analogy about the knowledge of a sin and feeling afterll we can't sin. But your submission is spot on. I hope I get to hear the part of grace as a teacher if Ayoku gets to submit his paper.

Dear sister, sure I got your position.

Hope you're good?

Cheers

@benalvino

I agree with this write up. Tongues was described by the Bible as one of the least of spirit gifts but you wonder how Christians have elevated it to be the most important second only to salvation.

A close relative if mine is having a delay conceiving and a high ranking pastor told her the delay is because she's not speaking in tongues. Imagine my anger and sadness when i heard.

People repeat the same unintelligible words everyday year in year out and they still keep believing they're making sense in the spirit when Christ warned against vain repetition. You really have to wonder

God bless you

Alwaystrue: @Alexleo,
I think Enigma has answered that question well. Part of the strategy of the enemy is making a Christian sin and feel he has not sinned because he 'cannot sin'. That is one of the worst deceptions because that person will not tap into the grace of God. When people tell the story of the prodigal son, they fail to understand that the prodigal son REALISED what he had done and turned back and RETURNED home and His father was waiting.
God is always waiting...If we fail to return claiming all is well, we deceive ourselves.

The definition of sin never changed because grace was poured out.Sin is still lawlessness to God. Grace only came to give us that which we couldn't attain on our own & that is the righteousness that meets God's standard.

A Christian might fall occasionally, in fact he'll fall as he's still in this corruptible body of flesh but he'll never be comfortable there as the seed of God(holy spirit) resides in him and it is an enemy of the flesh.

Grace is NOT and CAN NEVER be License to engage in sin

Grace is ever available but if the sinner does not draw from it, it is a waste to the sinner not the father. It is the sinner that loses and suffers for it.

I really expected to gain a lot on grace in this convention as an enabler and a helper as grace has helped me do things I never thought I could do and I did not get the nitty-gritty of that though Ayoku I believe may have handled that. That is how I know grace is beyond a saver, it's other key role is a helper, teacher perfecter and trainer and makes us more like Christ, a people zealous for good works.

Dear sister, the grace of God is beyond our comprehension. We can only try to imagine. I also wish Ayoku and Shdemidemi can create time to bless us with their own topics.God bless u plenty

jacobscros: What page of this thread can I find ayoku777's teaching on?

Ayoku hasn't done his yet. I believe he'll upload later. God bless u bro

In summary,

You must realize your guilt like the prodigal son and seek for mercy before you can qualify for grace

If you truly realize and know how lost you were before the grace of God came to your rescue, you’ll not want to go back into that slavery.

You who has been shown such great love and mercy should now allow the spirit of the Lord showcase love through you to God and your fellow human beings

God bless us all as we yearn for and seek a more fulfilling work with him

thank you

CALL TO SERVICE - NOT OBEDIENCE TO LAWS

Gal 5:1
‘Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.’

We are asked to exercise liberty and not to allow a yoke on our necks. What yoke was Paul talking about here? It was the same yoke apostle Peter talked about and even our Lord and savior referred to this yoke. The law of Moses was the yoke (Acts 15:5,10;Matt 23:4). We are free from this yoke because the aim of the law has been achieved which was to bring us to the end of ourselves that we might see the need to accept God’s offer of redemption

Rom 3:19
‘Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God’

Gal 3:24-25
‘Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a school master.’

Our righteousness or right standing with God is no longer measured by how well we adhere to the laws of Moses because we cannot be justified or adjudged right with God based on conformity with the law (Rom 3:20). Paul said in Philippians

Phil 3:9
‘And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:’

There were ancillary laws(ordinances) that accompanied the tables of stone but we’ve been set free from these ordinances of the law because they were nailed to the cross of Christ

Col 2:14
‘Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;’

We however have a new law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The law of liberty. This law was what made Christ leave his throne in heaven (of his own freewill) and come down to save sinful men. This is the law that super-cedes all laws, infact Christ called it the greatest and totality of all laws (Matt 22:37-40). This is the law of LOVE.

John 13:34
‘A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.’

Rom 13:10
‘Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.’

Gal 6:2
‘Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.’

1John 3:23
‘And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.’

Brethren, the fruit of our liberty is service: Service to God and humanity in LOVE. The practice of the law in its truest form lacked love and that is against the very nature of God for God is love(1John 4:8. There is no better illustration of this than in the story of the good Samaritan relayed by Jesus Christ himself(Luke 10:25-37). The Levite and the priest were faithful to the demands of the mosaic law; so faithful infact that they had no qualms about leaving an almost ‘dead’ man in the middle of the street because the law said so(Lev 21:11, Ezek 44:25). They were faithful to the law but they were guilty before the law giver himself. They were guilty of a lack of love. This was LEGALISM at its best but our Lord showed his utter disdain for it. They refused to do service to the needy man and this showed a heart not in tune with the nature of the almighty. Our good works cannot and will not save us but our salvation must lead to good works.

Eph 2:10
‘For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.’

Titus 2:14
‘Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.’

Dear children of God, your salvation must show forth in good works. People must see you and realize you’ve had an encounter with the unchanging changer. As saved people, we are created anew in Christ(2Cor 5:17) and we must inevitably show forth the fruits of the spirit(Gal 5:22-23) which must then manifest in good works. That is the only way to let our light shine brightly before men(Matt 5:16) and this will point them to the way of the cross. Your life might be the most potent gospel some will ever listen to not your regular attendance in church, the frequency of your offerings or fastings.

Most Christians have the idea that Christian service is building big cathedrals, acquiring the latest musical and studio gadgets etc but that is very far from the truth. You and I are the temple of God today, the children of God are God’s building(1Cor 3:9) and that is where service should be directed. Christian service should be directed at edification and support of the component parts of the body of Christ. The early church excelled at this and that is the reason they made so much impact on the world and won so many souls for Christ(Acts 2:42-47).

So many ‘give’ in church today but to what end? To have the most beautiful and flamboyant ‘church in town? To win the tag of ‘church’ with widest reach? To have the most up to date musical department? As fanciful as these ends may look, they will never resonate with the almighty(Acts 7:48-50). His interest is on people and he made that abundantly clear(Matt 25:31:46). A Christian must be known, not by his riches, status, anointing etc but by LOVE(John 13:35).

PARDONED PRODIGAL FINDS TRUE LIBERTY

The pursuit of freedom drove the prodigal son into a far country but instead he went into bondage and slavery in the world. He missed a vital truth as we learn from the father’s statement to the older brother who complained he hadn’t been given any chance to make merry with his friends

Luke 15:31
‘And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.’

He actually had the liberty to enjoy himself because all that was the father’s were his too. However self righteousness didn’t make him know just like the lure of the world blinded his younger brother(the prodigal son) to this same truth. There was liberty in their father’s house. The GRACE that made the father wait anxiously for the son also made liberty present in the house.

Children of God, we have full liberty in Christ. When we return to the Lord, he grants us the full status of sons with full access to authority and inheritance. We are not taken in like hired servants who have no rights and have a rule book thrown at them like the prodigal son expected (Luke 15:18-19). The grace of God that saves gives liberty because the Spirit of the Lord is transferred into us the moment we believe the gospel(Eph 1:13) and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty(2Cor 3:17). We are no longer led by the flesh or by the dictates of the law but by the law of Christ. This law has made us free from the one which states that when you sin, you die(Rom 8:2). It is called the gift of no condemnation because we are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1). God put our condemnation on Christ when he judged him at the cross and we became the righteousness of God in him (2Cor 5:21). Brethren, we’ve been accepted in the beloved(Eph 1:6)

Having therefore being placed on this glorious pedestal, shall we continue in sin to prove that the grace of God is really abundant? (Rom 6:1) the answer comes right back my brethren; GOD FORBID (Rom 6:2). We are indeed dead to sin. Our senses are dead to its sensuous and worldly prodding. We are no longer to be led by the instincts of our flesh but rather by the leading of the Spirit of God deposited in us. Sin has become repulsive to us, it has become anathema. Though we are still in this body of flesh, we are led by the Spirit as sons of God (Rom 8:14). The works of the flesh are listed in Gal 5:19-21 and its through being led by the Spirit that we are able to be free from their stranglehold. We no longer seek to please the flesh because we are no more serving it. Only slaves keep serving their master and the flesh is no longer master in our lives, we are no longer it’s slaves therefore we can’t serve it. We’ve been liberated and we are free indeed as Christ declared (John 8:34-36).

Rom 6:4
‘Therefore we are buried with him into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.’

We have been made new in Christ so we walk in the reality of this new life. Hence we can boldly say we are new creatures, all things have become new (2Cor 5:17). This new life is victorious in all respects and particularly it triumphs over the dictates of the flesh. Therefore we refuse to let the flesh take the pre-eminence. The flesh has nothing to offer us, it doesn’t profit us in anyway (John 6:63). We should not seek to gratify the flesh with its demands. We have a responsibility to mortify(i.e to destroy the strength of) the deeds of the flesh with the assured help of the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:13). Even Jesus Christ asked for help through prayers to keep the flesh under subjection (Matt 26:41) and it will do us well to take heed.

Rom 6:12-13
‘Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.’

Yielding ourselves wholly unto God weakens the flesh in its attempt to make us obey it’s lusts. The flesh is in a constant battle with the spirit to get supremacy in our lives(Gal 5:17) but yielding to God keeps us from fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. Our Lord and master told us defilement comes not from things external to us but from things internal in us (Matt 15:19-20). He told us to deny self and that means bridling our appetites. We are therefore encouraged to present ourselves to God as a sacrifice

Rom 12:1-2
‘I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.’

We must renew our minds daily with the word of God. We must be in constant communion with our father. This helps keep our focus aright. Our Lord wants us sanctified and he does this through the word(Eph 5:26). He wants us set apart from the world. There must be a difference between us and the world. We’ve been admonished not to love the world as this interferes with love for the father whether we admit it or not(1 John 2:15-17). Conformance to the world has been the undoing of many Christians and the reason they carry on with lives almost opposite to what was lived by the early Christians. We seek the praise of the world, we compete even among ourselves for the prize of the world and by so doing, we only elevate the flesh. We should heed Paul’s admonition in Colossians thus

Col 3:2
‘Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.’

Christians are meant to let their light shine so much to attract unbelievers to the gospel. Your life should point the world to Christ. Not your wealth, status, influence etc because the world would always have more of these things than you. Your manner of living is what will and should make the difference. Apostle Peter admonished thus

1Pet 2:12
‘Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.’

Brethren, let your true liberty show.

A PRODIGAL PARDONED – ABUNDANT GRACE BESTOWED

We all at one time or the other must have heard the story of the prodigal son. It is the story of a son who compelled his father to give him his own inheritance as he wanted to enjoy some freedom and didn’t want to be under the father’s rule and thumb. This meant he reckoned the father dead and forgotten because you could only administer a will that apportions inheritance upon the death of the testator. He went far away from the presence of his father like sin always takes a man far away from God (Isa 59:2, Eph 2:12). The pleasures he found in the new country were sweet but they left him drained and reduced him practically to a dead man walking (Luke 15:17) just like sin results in spiritual death for an unsaved man (Gen 2:17, Ezek 18:4,Col 2:13). However he came to his senses, the love of the father draws him home like our Lord told us in

John 6:44
‘No man can come to me except the father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day’

He comes home weather beaten and helpless because he realizes he has lost his standing as a son of his father. He has lost all legitimate claim to sonship and inheritance therefore he had no rights anymore whatsoever. All he can ask for is mercy but that too should not be possible as he concluded his father dead the moment he asked for his inheritance and the dead should have nothing to offer the physically living. He comes home expecting to be taken to the cleaners, he comes home hardly expecting any kindness from a father he knew he had wronged but instead what did he find?

Luke 15:20
‘And he arose, and came to his father: But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him’

He found his father waiting for him nay running towards him. A loving father was on his watch, seeking a child lost to the evil hands of sin and the world. The father wasn’t angry with him, infact the father loved him more than he had ever done before because now he had become his son twice over. Hear the father affirm this

Luke 15:24
‘For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found……..’

Notice the father made no reference to the boy’s past misdemeanor; A loving father couldn’t care less. He never asked the boy to refund the inheritance he squandered; there was obviously more from where that came from. Instead he threw a lavish party and killed the fatted calf. This is because the loving father had justified the son. He had acquitted him of all charges and forgiven him all transgressions. He saw the son like a saint who had never left in the first place, as if he never sinned. It was full justification and it was free. This is in full agreement with apostle Paul’s words to us thus

Rom 3:24
‘Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:’

The father showed kindness and mercy exactly how God almighty shows it to us today

Titus 3:4-5
‘But after that the kindness and love of God our savior toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost:’

The homecoming of the Son punched holes in the father’s treasury but it was worth it just as he repeated to the older brother who questioned the rationale behind the ‘waste’

Luke 15:32
‘It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found’

Beloved brethren, this is a picture of the grace that saved you and me. If you’re saved today, you didn’t find God, he found you because even while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Rom 5:8. He had already made the preparation for our redemption. We come to God in faith(Heb 11:6) and we are justified by believing the gospel (Acts 13:39, 1Cor 15:1-4).

1John 3:1
‘Behold what manner of love the father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God………..’

Brethren, how would you respond to such a love from the father? Would you want to grieve his heart again? Would you want to still go back like a pig into the mire and dirtiness of sin and the world ? would you still wish to remain a slave to sin(John 8:34) when the status and blessedness of sonship beckons? What would your answer be beloved?

apologies for the delay.the devil is indeed a liar


GRACE IS NOT LICENCE



Gal 5:13-14
‘For brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.’

The issue of the Christian’s attitude to the flesh(Adamic nature) has always been a touchy point in Christian discourse. How does a Christian live, operate and flourish in a world gradually loosing regard for every known moral boundary seems like a question without possibility of an answer. A cursory look at events in the world today show the decadence and rottenness that pervade all spheres of human affairs. Absolutes seem not to exist anymore and the penchant to push boundaries form the basis of existence for a lot of people. The Church has been inundated with ‘pseudo-grace’ messages that seem to encourage the believer to just go ahead and engage in every hedonistic and sensuous ideas that come to mind after all ‘Christ has set us free from every law’ (though a careful study of these pretenders always reveal a terribly poor understanding of grace and its mix with aspects of the law of Moses that give them power over their flock). True we were asked to ‘Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.’(Gal 5:1) but what about Rom 6:12 which says ‘Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof’ ? should that not make a true Christian seek to get a holistic view of this whole issue of GRACE AND LICENSE? With liberty comes responsibility and this responsibility is active not passive.

We have been exposed to different aspects of the grace of our God through various teachings in the last few days and we have come to realize that nothing is more settling to our lives than the grace of God. However, there is a caveat on our liberty and this will be the focus of this teaching and we trust the Lord almighty to help us understand as we go along.

This teaching is divided into 3 parts

1 A PRODIGAL PARDONED – ABUNDANT GRACE BESTOWED

2 PARDONED PRODIGAL FINDS TRUE LIBERTY

3 CALLED TO SERVICE – NOT OBEDIENCE TO LAWS

Goshen360: Announcement

While we await our teacher, christemmbassey to present his teaching soon. If his internet interruption is not resolved yet and our teacher Candour is ready, our teacher Candour can proceed while we receive the last message from christemmbassey. But if christemmbassey is ready, he can proceed with his teaching and Candour can come immediately after him.

God bless you all.

Grace to all children of God.

Will start presentation by 5.30pm by God's grace so Christemmbassy can present afterwards.

God bless us all

Alwaystrue: @Frosbel,
There was a particular scripture I thought I did not see but I went back to check your post and saw you had captured it:

1 Pet.5:10 AMP
And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace [Who imparts all blessing and favor], Who has called you to His [own] eternal glory in Christ Jesus, will Himself complete and make you what you ought to be, establish and ground you securely, and strengthen, and settle you.

Grace makes us what we ought to be by atimes making us pass through tribulations which builds us up more, established and grounds us more securely in Him while strengthening us the more so we are not easily tossed around and then settles us more in Him with peace.
Great to be a product of grace. Great is the love of God to us.

Dear sister, God bless you plenty.I love your summary above. Strength to go through challenges is what God promised yes. He didn't promise us a rose petaled pathway.

God bless u again and again

veave: Thank you JESUS for this group of people i met today... Brethren please pray for me... i started my 3days wait on the Lord today... i really need this GRACE!

God shall surely meet you at the point of your need by his matchless grace in Jesus name.
Amen

Atigba: Just coming from work let me join the services half bread is better than none

Welcome jare child of God.
Take a sit and enjoy yourself
God bless u

DrummaBoy: Opening Prayer: Lord, we thank you for how the grace convention proceeded yesterday. We ask that you will help our teachers in their presentation today and as many that read them will be blessed in Jesus name. Amen!

Amen

Pastor Kun: With reference to the 'missed nothing' statement, these type of utterances are not necessary and is indeed in very poor taste. Even if you refused to benefit from it, it was a well written and essentially bible based presentation. A lot of hard work went into it so if you can't appreciate it, you can at least keep your negative comments to yourself.

Hi Kun, Bidam's post actually means what he said and that is he benefited everything enigma was passing across.he sure meant no harm

Let us pls allow the program to flow how the organisers want.

Thanks a lot

Uyi Iredia: Una dey do African time for the thing. Okay o !

hi brother, you know its the first day......just have a little patience pls

I guess Tgirl4real has not finished the decor yet . oya sister hurry up

God bless you

Image123: My chains are gone, i've been set free,
My God my Saviour has ransomed me,
And like a flood, His mercy reigns,
Unending love, Amazing grace. (C Tomlin)

Say it on brother

Amen

I heard a big time Bishop in this country say he was given a gift of $10,000(while in the USA) and he spent all on books which he cargo ed to Nigeria. I then wondered what kind of books he would spend such colossal amount on? the answer came immediately: 'self development books' and they include books on psychology, management, planning etc. That is why they are very good at what they do i.e motivate the modern Christian to greater heights of achievement but with very little spiritual content. They quote copiously from excellent books written by people we call atheists and agnostics but because we have confined ourselves to only what our pastors reproduce in their own(MOG) books, we scream 'RHEMA' at the mouthing of another fanciful cliche when in actual fact, MOG just quoted somebody he he doesn't want you listening to because 'he has not the spirit of Christ'.

The Pastors of today don't rely on the bible or even Christian books alone for that matter to teach you so why would you as a human being not read wide? This is a write up that people should take the time to digest but for the Nigerian Christian, 'its too long and boring' and i know many will avoid it. This is why we have shows and entertainment in churches today in the name of worship services. If it doesn't entertain or jerk up the emotions, we do not value it.

@belabela, thanks for this article. It is very academic and long but it accurately describes a menace in Christendom and it behooves us all to take heed. Our pastors need our help to help put them under check. They are human like us and are prone to the same temptations if not more than you and i. They need to be accountable and we can really help them be. If the berean Christians could recheck what Paul the apostle told them from the word, i see no reason why you can't question your own pastor but then, how many Christians know anything in the bible beyond what they hear in church on Sunday and atimes midweek to now question MOG?

God bless the OP once again

mbulela: You can sense the spirit of manipulation when a pastor begins to tell you that there are certain truths you do not have access to but that he has access to due to some level of grace that he enjoys by reason of his relationship with God.
You know you are being seduced on the road to control when the pastor tells you that you can never rise higher than him or and that your destiny is tied to his ministry or calling.
These sort of statements are made to inspire fear in you and compel submission. Brethren,this ought not to be so. It is obvious that your service to God through a local assembly can be most productive through certain ministries at certain points in your life but to make people scared of leaving cos they think they will be out of God's will is pure manipulation.

bro, you're spot on.

this is where the mind control and enslavement starts.It comes in gently and before the worshiper knows it, he would have transferred part of honour and glory that belong to God unto the pastor. He/She wont be able to think out anything(literally speaking) for him/herself until the 'special one' is consulted. Your pastor should be like your elder brother, a support for you, not your god. see what Paul the apostle said

2Cor 1:24
'Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy:for by faith ye stand'

Your pastor has no power over your life or eternal destination for by FAITH ye stand.

The pastor has the same access to God like the new born Christian. Just like intimacy nourishes relationships,so with God. God has only one first born (Jesus),nothing like second born and third born. That is why we are Co-heirs with Christ.We all have equal access. This was the whole thing was what Luther's reformation was fighting against. At this rate we will have Pope's in the pentecostal set up very soon.

@the bolded

It will interest you to know that the power some pastors wield on the lives of their members is bigger than the power of the Pope over catholics.

Beautiful written piece I must confess. Let us examine that ‘touch not my anointed verse again

Psalms 105:12-15 reads thus
'12.When they were but a few men in number; yea,very few, and strangers in it.13.When they went from one nation to another, from one kingdom to another people;14.He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes;15.Saying, touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.'

If you study the above very well, you’ll notice he was referring to the whole Israel as anointed so don't localize it to a pastor or MOG no matter how big. As long as you are a child of God, the same Holy Spirit that resides in the pastor also resides in you. God is not a GRAND FATHER. We all are children of God. That is what the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ did for us. Grace tore down the curtain hiding the holy of holies to give you and I an express access to the father. If a bishop can see God, so can you and I, if a pastor can talk to God, so can you and I, if a prophet can hear God, so can you and I my people. Nothing took away your brain and mouth the day you became a Christian so why should you give up reasoning to please a man of flesh and blood like you? That is blind loyalty to a man NOT to God. G.O was redeemed with the same blood of Christ so why should we be acting like the blood that redeemed the rest of us was diluted?

Courtesy demands we avoid abusing and hurling insults at people irrespective of status and for this reason i STRONGLY detest insults on people. Attack issues instead because attacking personalities is an attribute of a small mind. However, we Christians must be known to stand against blatant lies and hypocrisy anywhere we encounter them.

Rev Jim Jones in 1978 led almost 1000 souls on mass suicide hiding under this same ‘touch not my anointed’ defense. If only more people had spoken out, maybe it wouldn't have happened. National Geographic channel ran a documentary on it last year. Do you know how many Americans concluded there was no God because of it? Rev king Burnt a female member to death hiding under this same mantra and his loyal followers are still defending him till today. Would it have been more 'Christian like' for the Christians in the police force to turn a blind eye to that too?

Not speaking up is a greater evil fellow Christians

hmmm.... Nigeria we hail thee

When did having rich acquaintances become criteria for employment in a bank? I know some bank staff got their jobs like this but making it the standard at the face to face interview is taking it too far IMO.

We know banks have to survive and they have to do with deposits but we all must work collectively to reduce unemployment in this country otherwise before very long, all the policemen in Nigeria will not be able to protect these banks from the graduate armed robbers they create when they deny people jobs.

shdemidemi: To be true with you, I don't bother with most topics on this forum. I have not checked what the pastor did as yet but I still stand on the fact that we cannot condemn any one in Christ lest we fall into the same things we condemn. God might have used the life of this man to teach some other ministers of God that we ignorantly laud but they have this thoughts in their heats or the ones who secretly do these things but keep it under lock and key.

Gal 6

1Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5 For each one shall bear his own load.


Paul spoke about the immoral man that slept with his father's wife-
1 cor 5
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


All the devil can do is to destroy the flesh of this man, no matter what he has done. [b]If he has the Spirit of God in him, that is if he is a believer his spirit will be saved.

@the bolded is the caveat. I hope he's a believer indeed and if he is, as a shepherd of flock who look up to him, he should be honest enough to come out clean to his members before some babe in Christ will assume it's ok to indulge in such.

It's well.

P/S: Image123, my apologies for derailing your thread pls. God bless you