₦airaland Forum

Tcwork:

You obviously do not understand the doctrine of the trinity. You can Google it. To summarize the trinity doctrine, it teaches that Jesus Christ, his Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same person.No need to be dishonest for the sake of an argument.

Like I said, find where to pitch your tent and leave long story.

Tcwork:
I agree with you 100% Jehovah (Jesus Christ ) is the source of salvation.

Brilliant!

Tcwork:
See judgmental self-righteousness. I do not even believe in the doctrine of 3 in 1 neither have I preached it. You don't know me. I have discussed using the bible but you call me out and you bear false witness

Oh so you don't know that the trinity doctrine has several variations?

Some trinitarians say that God split himself into 3 and sent one portion of himself to the earth, others say God is ONE but when he came down, he changed to a servant/son, some others say he and his Son are the same, while they claim holy spirit is a person/angel or third person in God-head. Others would say that Jehovah and Jesus are the same person but that Jehovah is not the Father—which is the claim you made.

So there are assorted variations, Mr Tcwork. Maybe you're a new comer but all you need to do is find where to pitch your tent.

Peter said about Jesus at Acts 5:31(ISV)

“God has EXALTED to his right hand this very man[Jesus] as our Leader and Savior in order to extend repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.”

The scriptures are very clear that salvation[release from slavery to sin and death] can only be gotten THROUGH Jesus Christ(John 14:6, Acts 4:12) but Jehovah remains the Source of salvation. Psalm 62:1, Isaiah 43:11


It’s just a pity Tcwork cannot see beyond the scope of the trinity doctrine.

bixton:
I disagree with the bolded above.
But please do well to read 1 Corinthians 15:1-54
1Cor.15.42 - So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.

Please according to Acts 24:15 [NIV, NET] , where would the unrighteous/wicked be resurrected to?


Apostle Paul was addressing the resurrection of those who would be going to heaven(Philippians 3:21)and according to the Bible, it would be a “little flock” of anointed Christians numbering into a 144,000 total. Luke 12:32 see Revelation 14:1-5 also.
Those who are in this category partake in what the Bible calls the “first resurrection”.
Please read Revelation 20:4-6 see Philippians 3:11 also.

Revelation 20:12-14 indicates that there would other kinds of resurrection which will take place on earth.

bixton:
Noted.
Is there any difference between a servant and a son? If there is kindly explain.
Thanks.

There is a very huge difference, sir. The Bible made mention of God having several spirit sons(angels) apart from Jesus. Job 38:7, Psalm 104:4
This implies that they are always to carry out God’s will and command i.e. be his servants. Psalm 103:20, Hebrews 1:7

But some angels(sons of God) chose to rebel against God and they ceased being his servants. Genesis 6:2, Jude 6, Revelation 12:4,7

All of this because they can exercise a measure of free-will gifted to them by God.

However, Jesus Christ is the only-begotten(firstborn) Son of God(John 3:16, Colossians 1:15-16) chose to subject himself to his God and Father by zealously doing his will and thereby making him God’s servant. Psalm 40:8, Isaiah 42:1

Unlike the demons(rebellious spirit sons) who bring reproach on God’s holy name through their persistent disobedience, Jesus chose to remain a faithful, loyal and obedient servant even until death. Philippians 2:5-8, Hebrews 5:8

bixton:

Please point to where the contradiction lies......
God Almighty....noted.
The opinion that gets entitled is that which corresponds to the word of God.
A son cannot be a servant of his father except he is illegitimate.
Matt.3.17 - And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

---

If the Father referred to Jesus as His son and not his servant who am I to say differently.

---

We should try to understand the context of words as used in the Scripture.
Thanks.
God's blessing.

I’m sorry but the highlighted is in error, Sir.
Go and read Acts 3:13 from the ASV, NKJV, NIV, ESV, NASB and Amplified translations. Any one you choose but drop the KJV first.
Jesus is and will forever be the servant of the Almighty God. Compare Isaiah 42:1, Matthew 12:18, 1Corinthians 15:28

MaxInDHouse:
I'm still expecting your response to my mail!

Brother, is your email the one that begins with babs... or another? Well what I wanted to address wasn’t anything that serious.

bixton:
Ps.146.4 - His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; In that very day his plans perish.
Where does the bolded above go to?

According to Genesis 2:7, man doesn't have a soul, rather he is a soul with the breath of life in his nostrils. This ‘spirit’ simply refers to the breath of life. Compare Job 27:3 KJV
So at one's death, he himself returns to the dust of the earth while his breath of life returns to God. Ecclesiastes 12:7

Eccl.3.21 - Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?

If the ‘spirit’ in humans is a person then what about the animals in that verse? Do they also have personal spirits when they die? Of course not. The animals, along with humans all have the same force that makes them to be breathing creatures(souls). Compare Genesis 7:22

Matt.27.52 - and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Matt.27.53 - and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
In the above where did the raised bodies of the saints go?

That Bible passage wasn't talking about the resurrection. Immediately Jesus let up his breath and expired, an earthquake occurred to prove that the man whom they had just murdered had divine backing. Matthew 27:54
The earthquake was so powerful that it tore through the crags of the burial sites/tombs and so passers-by saw that the earthquake revealed the newly buried corpses and when they entered into Jerusalem, they reported what they saw to others.
If it was really resurrection that occurred, then the other Gospels should have also noted it but no, resurrection was something to occur in the future. 1Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 20:12

Luke.23.40 - But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?
Luke.23.42 - Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."Luke.23.43 - And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise
What does the bolded mean? Remember this happened prior to His death and resurrection.

The Jewish criminal by the side of Jesus must have heard upbuilding reports about the man(Jesus) who was impaled next to him so since he observed the Jews clamouring for the death of such a righteous man, he knew that genuine prophets of God had faced a similar fate. Matthew 23:35, Mark 6:4

That spurred him to put faith in Jesus and he made a request to Jesus to remember him in his Kingdom but Jesus corrected the notion he had and promised that he would be favourably remembered and resurrected on Paradise earth.
So Jesus didn't hold out the same promise to this man that he had made to his disciples earlier about being kings and judges in God's Kingdom. Matthew 19:28, Luke 12:32, John 14:1-3

Why do we say so?

About 3years earlier, when Jesus met with Nicodemus, he explained that one must first be born-again i.e. baptized in water and chosen by holy spirit as an adopted son of God before such a person can rule in God's Kingdom. John 3:3-6
The person would then be brought into a covenant(agreement) with God for a kingdom. (Luke 22:28-30, Revelation 1:6) provided he remains faithful til death. 2Peter 1:10

The man at his side hadn't gone through any of these processes so he's not qualified for heavenly life, rather he'll be resurrected in the future as an unrighteous person alongside billions of other humans. Acts 24:15, Revelation 20:12

bixton:

Jesus does not need to respond that He is God.
Remember He said............I AM, when questioned who He is.
The Scripture is not read in bits and explained.
This is the reason why they coined it "Trinity"...
God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Let me give you a simple explanation....
Lets assume your surname is "BiSHOP" in your family house there are 7 persons and someone you don't know knocks on the door and after exchange of pleasantries you ask him who he is looking for and he calls your surname...........WHAT NEXT WILL BE YOUR RESPONSE!!!?
Certainly you would ask......which of the BISHOP?
It is this unique oneness that makes HiM to be called I AM and GOD. That is not to mean He has a higher authority or can usurp power.
The essence of the Trinity is ONE-NESS as a functional and operational being.
Remember any time Jesus wants to refer to God...He makes mention of the FATHER.
Even the opening line in the Lord's prayer is " Our Father"..

Nice write-up I must commend you but you didn't still show me where Jesus said he was God or where this ‘Trinity’ is located in the Bible yet?

In the old testament when God spoke to Moses.....He referred Himself as 'I AM".
In the new testament Christ Jesus in certain instances referred Himself as "I AM".

I do not really understand why trinitarians like hovering over inconsequential details.
@John chapter 8, Jesus Christ and the Pharisees were having a little feud over who really was doing the will of God(John 8:41)
Now why would they be having this discussion if Jesus was already God?
Jesus said those words to prove that he had existed before Abraham, not that he was God. John 8:58, Revelation 3:14
After all, angel Gabriel and the rest of the angels in heaven will also say the same thing that they existed before Abraham and they would be correct because they were present when the earth was being created. Job 38:7

Do you know there is a difference between Heaven and heaven(s)? Please do well to find it out for yourself by studying the Word.

The Scriptures give quite a number of definitions to the meaning of “heavens”. Genesis 1:8, Deuteronomy 26:15, Ephesians 6:12
I am not new to this sir.

Do you also know that “earth” has more than one meaning?

Your assertions as to it is not mentioned in the Old Testament that none has gone to heaven; so Moses, Abraham, Elijah, Samuel and King David where did they go to or where are they?

Read Acts 2:29,34 from your Bible please. The aforementioned people died, and returned to the dust of the ground. Psalm 146:4, Ecclesiastes 3:20
None of them are qualified for heavenly life so they will remain in the dust until the day of resurrection. Acts 24:15
After all, Isaiah 26:19 said that those who will be resurrected in the future in earth are “residents in the dust” or those who “dwell in the dust” would be resurrected. Compare John 5:28,29

KNOWMORE56:

I think it's noble to supply answers to questions if you have the answers...
or simply say I DON'T KNOW...
but leaving the questions and its answers into another thing is not fair...

Am I under any form of obligation to give you a reply?

Ogamysamo:
lease Is There Any Other Jesus In The Bible Apart From Jesus Christ And Bar-jesus?
I Was Confused When I Saw Something Related To That In The Book Of Colossians 4:11 It Says,
And Jesus, Which Is Called Justus, Who Are Of The Circumcission. This Only Are My Fellow-workers To The Kingdom Of God, Which Have Been A Comfort Unto Me.
Is This Really Jesus Christ? Is It Another Jesus? Or Could It Be Bar-jesus Who Repented And Had His Name Changed?
Please Am Really Confuse And Need Explanation
Who Is This Other Jesus Paul Is Talking About??

The name ‘Jesus’ is just the latinized form of Iesous in Greek and Yeshua or Joshua in Hebrew. The man who succeeded Moses also bore the same name[Deuteronomy 31:3 compare Acts 7:45] but written and addressed in the Hebrew tongue. So the name was very common amongst the Jews and the person being referred to at Colossians 4:11 bore the same name. Paul wasn’t referring to the Christ in the concluding part of his letter.

MaxInDHouse:
Hi brother, i sent you and Janosky an email each but i only got a reply from Janosky, haven't you see my mail?

Yes I actually did reply with a different email.

Tcwork:
It's just like saying all matter consist of matter. It means you and I and made from Christ
For by him were all things created.
When you say something was created by somebody, I am sure you know what it means. And I am using your favorite NKJV

The word ‘by’ is polysemic I don’t believe I have to teach you that. Go look up the Merriam-Webster’s dictionary.

Tcwork:

Link! Your bible reveals that all things consist of him. Now I just checked the dictionary. The word consist means all things are made up of him. Sir thar isn't the definition of a link or just a link as you call it. Sir if a kid asked you to explain what the Bible meant by "in him, all things consist." How would you explain this to a kid

While you’re at it, you might want to look up the meaning of ‘BY’ in the Webster’s dictionary. The synonym for ‘by’ is ‘through’ and used as an operator word in the context of Colossians 1:16,17 indicates an agency through which something is achieved.

Hence, Colossians 1:17 would read
“God’s Son was before all else, and BY[THROUGH] him everything is held together.”—CEV

In fact, coming down to the rudimentary Greek words, δι means ‘through’ and με means ‘by’[remember the word is polysemic] but the former is what appears in Colossians 1:17 which means that on account of Jesus Christ, the other things(invisible and visible) came into existence. Period.

I see how crafty you’re being by ignoring 1Corinthians 8:6 but it’s fine. Guess that’s a hard nut to crack for you.

Tcwork:

My point is first the world's of the king of Babylon is not holy scripture second the bible was clear in telling us that Christ created the world. Without him was nothing made that was made.
Using the julius berger example, true it's a project of the federal government but it would read, constructed by julius berger. I am sure you know this

Jesus Christ was only the LINK through which other things invisible and visible were created. 1Corinthians 8:6 indicates the true SOURCE of creation and it's not Jesus.

Tcwork:

Have you ever seen the marble board of a complete project? It would always read constructed by julius berger not constructed by federal government

The Julius Berger company were merely the craftsmen and contractors hired for the work. I am the one who built the house alone. Nobody assisted me. Period
Again, make your reference to Daniel 4:30 & 1Corinthians 8:6
You seem to be turning a blind eye to it. How clever of you.

Tcwork:

Col1.16 For (A)by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or (B)dominions or [a]principalities or [b]powers. All things were created (C)through Him and for Him.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 (H)In Him was life, and (I)the life was the light of men
Even reading your preferred version of the creation still name Christ as the creator.

Go and read 1Corinthians 8:6 I’m not the one who put it in your Bible. That’s the only way you can really understand Colossians 1:16

Now let's see if we all are understanding the same Grammer here.Let's crate a scenario.
Imagine you want to build your house. But then you have someone who is an architects and builder. Let's say a julius berger. So julius berger does everything for you. Ever material consist or came from julius berger.
True it's your house but who built it.It would read constructed julius berger. Not so?

You’re bringing another scenario here when Daniel 4:30 is still waiting for you.
Calm down and reason what you’re saying first. So if I’m discussing with one of my relatives and the said house comes up, would I say something like:
“The house I built at so-so-and-so area” or would I bring up the hired contractors into the discussion?

KNOWMORE56:
You seem to have some problems with your fellow GB on NL.He said the 144,000 are selected from all over the earth...I only want to KNOWMORE, that's why I'm wondering how it's done...No black African among the 8 men even though you people claim that these are the last group of people to get to heaven...Could it be black Africans are denied heaven as for now by your Jehovah?If you know, good, give me a clue or any of the NL GB can help.

Na today this one start? Sheybi you said rottenna.ija is doing the work of the Lord na?
Why not go and focus your attention on him?
Your obsequiousness towards him is all I need to come to a conclusion about you.

Tcwork:

1 Corinthians 8.6 6 There came a man who was sent as a representative of God; his name was John. How does it compare

Tcwork:

But I have and I don't see the link you are trying to create. Please educate me.
John came to represent God, while Jesus was with God and all things came into existence through him.

Tcwork:

That's so unfair.. I have made reference to 3 different bible versions. I did not write any neither did you. But just for asking which version would you prefer I use. Let's use your own version from now on?

Tcwork:
I am still waiting for you to tell me the bible version to switch to sir

1Corinthians 8:6

“Yet for us there is [A] one God, the Father, FROM whom are all things and for whom we exist, AND [B] one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom are all things and through whom we exist.”

Need I explain more about the differences between A and B or can you draw your own conclusions now?

Tcwork:

Proverbs 8.30 says no such thing in my own bible and as for Genesis 1.26 again you are speculating. Your bible did not teach you that it was Jesus Christ being referred to
How you came about that is a total mystery

Drop your KJV and make use of other sound translations already.

Tcwork:

Daniel 4.30 The king was saying: “Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty.
In this verse, we learn that the king built the city right? Now this is the very same way John tells us that Jesus Christ is creator
John 1.1-4
In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*+ 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, + and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
What has come into existence 4 by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men.
If you believe Daniel 4.30 then you should also believe John1.1-4

Compare the highlighted to 1Corinthians 8:6 PLEASE.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus chose 12 Apostles all Jews but 144,000 are selected from all the corners of the earth!

We who are in the organization don’t have any problem with it because racism doesn’t have any hold on us. Acts 10:34-35
It’s this KNOWMORE56 guy that nobody knows his root and ancestry that seems to be bothered.

Maybe he should have asked why it was only Jews whom were the apostles and elders back in Jerusalem? Acts 15:2
But did that cancel out Acts 10:34-35? Absolutely not.

Those Jewish men had long been worshipers of God so they were more experienced than men from the nations who were relatively new. It is the prolificacy we are looking out for and not skin colour. Matthew 24:45-47, Acts 6:1-5

Tcwork:

You obviously don't get the point. The bible especially the new testament gave gratitude and attributed creation to Christ.
I am not the one giving such position to Christ. It was the bible that gave him the recognition as creator and Saviour.
It was he that felt the pains for your sins
If you are feeling unwell and you uncle tells his son who is a doctor to treat you and your doctor cousin treats you at his own cost, who would you attribute the treatment to?

Up until now, Daniel 4:30 seems to be freaking you out as it completely ruled out the earlier claim of the Creatorship being ascribed primarily to Jesus.
Proverbs 8:30 calls Jesus a “master worker” because it was him whom God was talking to at Genesis 1:26.

More so, that’s the reason why 1Corinthians 8:6 explains God as being the source of creation and Jesus being the link/channel. Colossians 1:16 is trying to tell you that Jesus was the one THROUGH which all things were made(John 1:3), while Jehovah is the one FROM which all things were made. Romans 11:36

It’s the same with Nebuchadnezzar. He hired several workers to build his empire yet at the end of the day, only him took the full credit because he was the mastermind behind it. Daniel 4:30

Tcwork:

Its different because in the case of Christ, he was the only one that paid for our sins. At that moment, even the Father abandoned him.
He was also the one that created all things according to your bible.
He was not just a part of a team. He was the One

Tcwork:

colossians 1.16 revelations 4.11

Tcwork, if you’re feeling unwell and your distant uncle in his 80’s perhaps, sent his son to give you food & medicinal supplies, who would you owe your gratitude to? Surely you would appreciate the one your uncle used as a messenger but your indebtedness would be to your uncle alone .

That’s exactly the same case with John 3:16
Due to the undeserved kindness of Jehovah, he sent his Son to give his life as a ransom in exchange for ours so that we might be set free from slavery to sin and death in order for we to have everlasting life. Matthew 20:28, Romans 3:24
Surely, we appreciate what Jesus did as the “corresponding ransom”(1Timothy 2:6) but our wholehearted devotion, worship and gratitude MUST go to the One who initiated it in the first place—Jehovah God. Exodus 34:14, Ephesians 5:20

Tcwork:

Now we are saying different things all together. It was the bible that attributeday creator to Jesus Christ not me. And my point is Jesus Christ is that Jehovah the creator.
And please sir don't be taking it personal. You don't need to ask if I am serious just because you don't agree with me. I

I only showed you a correlation to a similar claim Nebuchadnezzar also made and you’re saying it’s a different thing. Let us all agree it was only Nebuchadnezzar who built his empire by his power and strength and we’ll call it a day .

Tcwork:
John 16.27 (KJV)
27for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God
This is an excellent scripture that tells us where Christ came from but I would love you to throw more light so we can understand you point sir

Luke 8:49 KJV would help solve the riddle.

“While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue’s house, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master.”

Should we all agree that the one who came as a representative from the ruler is also the ruler himself?

Tcwork:
Jehovah created the world
Isaiah 45.11-12
11 This is what Jehovah says, the Holy One of Israel,+ the One who formed him:
“Would you question me about the things coming
And command me about my sons+ and the works of my hands?
12 I made the earth+ and created man on it.In the new testament we learn that Jesus Christ created the world
John 1.1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*+ 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence
Colossians 1.15-17
He is the image of the invisible God,+ the firstborn of all creation;+ 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible,+ whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him+ and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things,+ and by means of him all other things were made to exist
Isaiah and the new testament were talking about the same person, the Creator, Jesus Christ

Are you being serious right now? If you are, was King Nebuchadnezzar correct when he said:

“Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty?” Daniel 4:30

Please was it the king of Babylon that built the whole empire by himself or did he have hired slaves and workers to do that?
The Bible is clear that Jesus Christ was indeed the firstborn of God's creation and he was alongside God during creation as a “master worker” Proverbs 8:30 see also Genesis 1:26

But if we’re to attribute Creatorship to anybody, it goes to Jehovah alone. Nehemiah 9:6

Tcwork:
Now do I believe that God uses representatives?
The answer is yes and each time he does it is clearly shown.

It seems I’m late to the discussion. Are you saying that in Jesus’ case, the above claim wasn't CLEARLY shown? If so, what does John 16:27 have to say on the matter? Because from all indications, the real meaning of the last part of that verse is that he came as his Father's representative.

Janosky:
Very Useless post..

You’d have let him alone to continue ranting. I just ignore his kind completely when I notice they want to get smart. He knows he can neither contribute to nor debunk the stated facts so he has set his mind to do what he knows best.

Uptheante:
When Saul asked the witch at Endor to summon the spirit of Samuel for him & she did. My questions are as follows:
1. Was it actually the spirit of Samuel, a prophet of God that came out or it's a familiar spirit?
2. If it's actually Samuel's spirit, then is it possible for a witch ( a devil's associate) to summon d spirit of God's prophet? Remember that as a prophet of God, his spirit is most likely with God. Then how can a witch summon his spirit from God's presence?
3. If it is actually a familiar spirit ( most likely a demonic spirit acting like Samuel) that she summoned instead of the actual Samuel's spirit then how come the spirit could prophecy accurately what would happen to Saul & his family?
Remember that the spirit spoke to Saul as if he's delivering a message from God (a familiar/demonic spirit can't do that.
Pls if u know the answer, let it flow

The answer to your question is already in your number 3. Satan and his horde of demons have several tactics and schemes that they use to draw humans into their traps. 2Corinthians 2:11

Those people saying it was the ‘spirit’ of Samuel do not know the actual makeup of humans.
The Bible already makes it clear that man himself is the soul that was made out from the dust of the ground(Genesis 2:7), the ‘spirit’ is the breath of life and not a person. Once this breath of life leaves his body, he(created from dust) returns to the ground and becomes nonexistent. Psalm 146:4

It was already obvious that the Philistines would defeat Israel because Saul no longer had God's backing. 1Samuel 28:1 compare with 1Samuel 15:22,23
Moreover, demons often have the habit of foretelling the future in half-truths. Just like the slave girl who could relate details about Paul and Silas because she had a demon of divination. Acts 16:16,17

1Samuel 28:6 says that God wouldn't answer Saul through the prophets or other means. And there's no way God would subject his prophet to such a diabolical conjuring. Because he stated in his Law to the Israelites that anyone consulting a spirit medium is deserving of death because the person would in fact be communicating with demons. Leviticus 20:6, Deuteronomy 18:10,11

haddeylium:
I agree with you brother!
pa.rou.sia means “presence"
"What will be the sign of your coming" is an incorrect translation . That's why I recommend the NWT for people most times.
There's a great deal of difference between 'Coming' and 'presence'.
The former indicate what's to happen in the future while the latter 'Presence' calls for Immediate attention for something ongoing.The right translation will show the status of Jesus' rulership.

How convenient for us that Jesus himself laid down a suitable analogy at Matthew 24:37-39 & Luke 17:26-30.

Just like it took Noah a good number of years(40-50y) to complete the ark and preach to people so they could change their ways(Genesis 7:6, 2Peter 2:5) so also the presence of the Son of man would span several years and people would also ignore the signs of his presence like those in Noah's day did. Compare 2Peter 3:3,4

That's why all them ‘rapture’ people have turned the meaning of 1Thessalonians 4:14-16 upside down because they lack the accurate knowledge.