₦airaland Forum

Provoker:
So today I went to repair my phone at an engineer's place by the road side.

Then I saw too much of shouting, I thought they were fighting. But then I saw only women there With the few guys being chased away.

The woman's water just broke. No nurse or doctor or something, no bed just bare floor with elderly women around and she gave birth just by the roadside. The heat, dust, all unfavorable conditions and she still gave birth in less than 30 mins.

Then I wonder this same childbirth that take the lives of other people, some require operation while some long hours and yet this woman was able to deliver.

They still got her to stand up to enter Keke and was taken to the health care center with the placeta uncut from the baby. There was a roar of rejoice, thousands of congratulations.

I was happy and even made a silent prayer for her and her baby

GOD IS THE GREATEST!

Photo is for illustration

How does this make God great or the greatest please?

Humans see millions of tragedies and yet they say thank God and say God knows best. They see one thing that happens as it should, they shout God is the greatest. I can never understand the religious mind.

Have you ever paused to question God about the evil and dieseased nature of his creation? No, because in your religious mind, the creation is responsible for it's dieseased state and not the creator.

What perverse thinking.

Osagyefo98:
So SS Should be United in taking what belongs to others?

SS questioning the appointment are right and completely correct.

Emefiele is CBN Governor and that's SS slot. Why will he bring another person from SS to take SE position.


This is outrightly wrong.

Please since when has there been anything like "slots" for zones or any form of zoning in determining the management of the Central Bank?

Since when did it become a policy in this country that when a civil servant retires, he must be replaced by someone from his zone or state?

Please tell me.

philips007:
God help us all

This is one thing God DOES NOT do.

plaetton:
Heyyyyy !
Long Long time my good friend.
Happy New year.
Nice to see you(read from you ) again.

How have you been ?

I dey, padi!
Its been yonks.

Hows life?

plaetton:
The company is standing on sound legal footing.

Nah, the whole thing was one big quack scam all the way.
Happy new year bro. Long time.

midnighter:
. . . but being somebody who refuses to think critically about an issue or consider an alternative point of view.

How much critical thought have you put into your Christian faith, if I may ask. I would be specifically interested in any rational explanation of the following ideas -

1. The Trinity (if you believe it)
2. The doctrine of salvation by the sacrificial death of Jesus of Nazareth (if you believe it).

Secondly your last words above mentioned willingness to consider an alternative point of view. I would be very interested to know just how willing you are to consider alternate points of view yourself, thank you.

midnighter:
This is the problem. I asked you in what way, I mean using what indices are you describing the entire planet as being "terrible".

Lets start with death and disease.

With respect to death, does it not concern you just a litte that at some date in the not too far future, everyone you love will simply simply disappear - to a place and realm you cannot say for sure?

Watching the news is not the point. You would be indignant at the behaviour of foreign news outlets who insist on painting a bleak picture of Africa. Unfortunate-looking children with distended bellies and flies crawling all over their eyeballs and mouths. My, my, isnt that continent a "terrible" place?

Fair enough, although you surely agree there is sufficient distress in the world to raise questions about the motives of the creator.

At least you tried a little by mentioning history. At some point, the majority of people in Western Europe were hapless, illiterate peasants eking out some meagre existence riddled with dirt and disease and at another, a golden age of enlightenment in science and medicine swept over the Islamic world. Now, what does Egypt look like today? How does Germany look?

Last I checked, people still suffer death and disease in Egypt and Germany.

Human experience and endeavour is too vast and varied for you to think you could get away with labelling the whole thing "terrible" and even have the guts to become indignant when somebody asks you to justify it.

Last I checked, all human beings die - regardless of how"vast and varied" their experiences are.

You will notice that I quoted that part of your post below your exposition on the "ugliness" of existence, because I am hinting at a larger point. Namely, is it not small-minded to consider the "cesspit of misery" only in today's terms?

Not sure I understand this, as my reference to history should make it clear I am not speaking about just "today's terms."

I mean I actually want to know, combined with your assertion that God owes us an apology for putting us through this "sadistic experiment", what makes you think that people's lives will always be miserable, all the time when that is so obviously not the case.

I didnt suggest things will always remain the same. Change is constant.

Apparently considering the issue holistically makes me a child smh

Once again my apologies for that jibe. I am over 40 and I dont know anyone of my generation who hasnt seen enough to understand how dark the world is.

Daejoyoung:
That's not necessarily a bad thing sometimes in my opinion. l am not an atheist neither do l support atheism, but l'll prefer one reads the bible and become an atheist who follows a lot of the teachings of jesus, than for one to read the bible and become a religious fanatic who doesn't even seek to understand the teachings of jesus.
Both are not the best options in my opinion, but l prefer the former to the latter.

Very well said.

k4kenny:
An atheist actually a very similar quote. He said 'the bible has made more people atheists than any book written by Darwin'.

The Bible is indeed corrupt, but my dear, so is the Quoran. There's a lot of negative energy in the Quoran. And it manifests itself in today's terrorism.

midnighter:
If you read your post back you will see that the way you answered me was too flippant and insincere to warrant any serious response. So we have reached the end of the truncated road.

Bye!

OK - Gentleman's code: I apologize if I came across that way.
Please accept.

Its just what you said wondering how the world is terrible. Surely you have read or watched some history, and surely you read the news.
No vex, I really am asking these questions from a point of view of sincerity.

PS: Have a look at my old topics on this forum. You will see I am anything but flippant.

midnighter:
I started responding to this post but I realised that any further engagement would be pointless.

Just like a few other elements on this thread, you are not concerned with any kind of genuine debate, only fustian exchange and pseudo-intellectual posturing which helps no-one and becomes boring after a while.

You dont really seek an answer to your question. You only wish to bandy words and fixate on isolated details whilst ducking and diving the main issue in order to appear to have made a point.

So respectfully, I withdraw from the interaction and wish you an auspicious and prosperous New Year.

Talking about ducking and diving.
This is just escapist.

midnighter:
So by extension, you believe that the majority of people would be better off having never come into existence in the first place?

This is a weird question because if one never came into existence the question of being better or worse off simply never arises.

God should only have brought people to life after guaranteeing that their lives would be "good", otherwise what was the point?

At the minimum, their lives should be sensible and meaningful, and needless random misery and tragedy should not be a recurring decimal.

"The world is a terrible place" by what index? In what way is it terrible?

This forces me to assume you are around sixteen years old and belong to a privileged, wealthy and insulated family.

If you acknowledge that human endeavour is at least partially responsible for the "horrifying experience" then is this not more of an anthropological consideration?

Partially. Only partially.

Death is a part of life. Plants and animals are beautiful in their own right, yet are at the same time just tasty food for some other animals. Lack of cell death means you have cancer.

Humans didn't invent death - they only invented stories to explain death.

Natural "disasters" are actually part of natural cycles and form an important part of process. For example bush fires release vital minerals back into the soil and make the land more fertile, which encourages flora and fauna to flourish.

An omnipotent and omniscient God could do better.

Life can be chaotic and meaningless, sure. But positioning death, which can actually be argued to be a neutral phenomenon to some extent, as a reason to reject God is a bit simplistic.

I haven't rejected God. I only reject the concept of God advanced by society.

k4kenny:
The creation of our bodies is perfect.

Our bodies are not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
Very remarkable - but not perfect.

healthserve:
Hahaha the world isn't ending tonight. Don't worry.

Phew.

healthserve:
Punishment is the consequence of actions. Infact punishment doesn't exist. Punishment is simply consequential action

This is a good response.

Roycemadeit:
So we are given freewill and still punished for exercising it?

Question!

healthserve:
All isn't. The forum skews the mindframe of people assuming all that exists is evil and speaking through this psychic block when interacting with members whose minds have been plouuted is too tasking for my peace of mind... Coupled with other issues too. The average forum member beliefs automatically without questioning or verification of facts that all tins and people are bad, coming for them and this standpoint causes interactional barrier. I want to exempt myself/extract from this dark matrix.

Okay, so you are referring only to your participation on the forum?
If so fine.
Got me worried for a moment.

healthserve:
Perhaps another lifetime. As my time here is up mate

healthserve:
Perhaps this makes it a very good way to terminate my presence on this forum(today) . I'm happy to be ending it with you great lads.

I hope all is well?

Roycemadeit:
There is no hell, so there is no place else for him to go.

His actions were what you would call mistakes—the actions of an unevolved being—and mistakes are not punishable by condemnation, but dealt with by providing the chance for correction, for evolution. The mistakes Hitler made did no harm or damage to those whose deaths he caused. Those souls were released from their earthly bondage, like butterflies emerging from a cocoon. The people who were left behind mourn those deaths only because they do not know of the joy into which those souls entered. No one who has experienced death ever mourns the death of anyone.

The Hitler Experience was made possible as a result of group consciousness. Many people want to say that Hitler manipulated a group—in this case, his countrymen—through the cunning and the mastery of his rhetoric. But this conveniently lays all the blame at Hitler’s feet—which is exactly where the mass of the people want it.

The world decided—finally—that Hitler was "wrong.” That is to say, the we made a new assessment of Who We Are, and Who We Chose To Be, in relationship to the Hitler Experience.

Once again, I am deeply impressed with your response. It really does strike a chord. So thank you again.

The only caveat I would have is with respect to your words where you say - "The mistakes Hitler made did no harm or damage to those whose deaths he caused. Those souls were released from their earthly bondage, like butterflies emerging from a cocoon".

I fear that the thoughts relayed therein are dismissive of human suffering,. . . and I also fear that they hinge upon the "feel good" standard rhetoric of a beautiful after-life - I am sure you know that this sort of teaching or notion or rhetoric has been the refuge of mankind against the bleakness of his existence for eons.Thus that gives me a little pause.

healthserve:
The first exhibit of an awaken soul is receptivity of a myriad of viewpoints

I think you need to read this 100 times a day, everyday for the next ten years. Read it until you discover the plank in your eye, good brother.

Trust me I read your posts over and over and laughed. I was at that point around 15 years back. Perhaps time will avail other opportunities and more interactions but then if the foundation is flawed, what then can what's rests upon it however erect be called, a flawed construct bro

This is just arrogance. As I said, it filters through from you. Arrogance, presumption, and a very negative energy.
I wish you luck though.

Roycemadeit:
Why do think he might not have?

To start with, the precepts of heaven and hell do not particularly feature within my worldview.
I do believe in continuing life though.

Secondly, if (and only if) you believe in a "heaven" why do you say Hitler is there - perhaps this is in line with your expressed thoughts that all souls have always been worthy, that all events are part of the soul experience, and that there is neither wrong nor right per se?

healthserve:
Trust me Salvation is yours to loose not mine. Self absorption perpetuates darkness/ignorance/flawed logics/wrong beliefs/wrong turns as evidenced in the entire length and breadth of your earlier hypothesis


When awakened beings engage one another, awareness and spiritual awakeness stands to be gained. If lost, ignorance continues to dominate

No offense, but I have interacted with quite a few awakened beings. You dont come across as one. Too much adversarial assumption and judgment filters through from you.

I really was interested in having a decent chat. But you have shut it down, thus i said. . . happy new year.

Roycemadeit:
I'm serious

The smileys arent helping!

healthserve:
The moment your understanding rests upon a combative narrative, even the Bible would confound you. The problem is understanding, perspective and wrong foundational mindframe hence whatever is poured in becomes toxic.


Fix the mind and the eyes and then clarity can be attained.

I dont know where you have seen anything combative.
Ah well, your choice.
Have a nice day, and a happy new year.

healthserve:
Another misguided fellow on the loose.

I would be hesitant to jump to conclusions if I were you: one thing I should mention if it helps is that the questions I put forward are not suggestive of what I think about God so much as they are meant to question a particular conception of God. As I mentioned to another poster somewhere up there, I personally believe God is the Source of all other existence and all other realities and as the Source, is beyond remote and therefore absolutely unknowable for a human.

Trust me if God comes down every moment to fix each humans errors, . . .

If God is the creator of humans, human errors are the responsibility of God.

. . . God will never sit down and would even die from exhaustion and the whole creation him.

Can God die? I trust you mean this in a sarcastic and metaphorical way.

Even Newton theoriticized action and effects are directly proportional

What human actions account for natural disasters such as Earthquakes or Tsunamis? Or droughts which led to famine in the past?

Let's let God be please. Its the devil that damaged the world not God.

Well, if God created this Devil, God is also responsible for its deeds, particularly if you believe that God is omniscient.

And God isn't to be blamed for creating us all.

Why? Does the concept of responsibility not apply to God?
God is not responsible for God's deeds? If so, please let me understand why.

Show some respect

Do you think that God requires respect?

As a man who's company had crashed with lots of money lost, I knew my wrongs and improved on them. I didn't look up to blame God.;

Good on you - and thats the right path - nevertheless I trust you are aware that there are tragedies in the world which no human action or deed could have triggered or stopped?

midnighter:
You would have to expand on your original statement first

The world is a terrible place. Sure, you can see beauty here and there, but the overwhelming experience of it is horrifying. Whilst some tend to insist that all the evil or negative experience in the world is a consequence of human excess, this is neither true nor sustainable. Natural disasters, diesease, and the very spectre of our mortality speak enough to this point.

Some also insist that we have a pre existence and chose to come here. Whilst this is possible, I am not sure it is something that can be asserted with proof. What we are left with is the scenario where we suddenly find ourselves in this world with no prior memory simply dumped into what is for all purposes a cesspif of misery.

No matter how beautiful you might imagine life to be, aside from the fact that it is pitifully ugly and cruel for other people who form the majority, there is always the spectre of death awaiting us all. Again I know some people insist that there is an after life, but again, who knows this as a fact?

Consequently my question is what right does any creator have to put conscious beings through such misery and for what purpose in which they don't have a say? For me the defense of God's sovereignty is not sufficient because you are speaking of conscious beings here. If the only defense is God's sovereignty, then in the immortal words of Christopher Hitchens, why would we applaud a celestial dictatorship? A celestial North Korea?

Roycemadeit:
Hitler made Heaven

Please don't be cryptic. I would appreciate clarity. As it is I can't tell if this is sarcasm or a cryptic suggestion or seriousness or just a joke.

midnighter:
Is this a rhetorical question?

Not at all. I mean it most seriously. And would appreciate a serious answer . . .

k4kenny:
We were created with imperfect. It's on our natural disposition to falter once in a while. But God is kind, merciful, forgiving and accepts sincere repentance. All you need to do is repent and try as hard as possible not to fall into that sin again. Even if you do, there's still room for repentance as long as you're alive and sincere in your intention.

Yes, my parents and people I've offended have forgiven my offences as I have also forgiven those who offended without attaching any conditions or punishment. Anyone who's forgiveness is based on punishment or retribution is nothing but a vindicated and horrible person. Are you?


If you buy a device and the manual is filled with errors and items inconsistent with the device you've purchased, would you be convinced that it's the manufacturer that wrote the manual? Anyone without sound knowledge of the product could have sneaked the manual into the package. Such is the case of the bible. Why would you call a book with errors was inspired by God. God is not the author of confusion.

Adopting the same logic in your last paragraph (which I agree with, by the way) - should we not similarly conclude that God could not have created this world - with its imperfections, diseases, absurdities and glitches? Could it not therefore be the work of some non-transcendent or mortal scientists within this realm, or within this universe?

midnighter:
Sins need to be punished. If you understand God as much as you claim to, you should understand that its against His nature to abide with sin. Forgiveness is not the point. He can forgive you but He still needs the sin to be paid for. Are you saying that your parents simply "forgave" you all the time when you were growing up, with no consequences?

You shouldnt use emotive language like "conditional forgiveness" and "revenge" to try to distract away from the point. God is a just god and feels righteous anger against sin and iniquity.

Your second paragraph is not closely connected enough with what we were discussing to warrant a response from me unless you can explain how it is relevant. I did not deny the existence of errors or inconsistencies in my previous post so I dont understand what you wrote there.

Is it possible that it is God who requires our forgiveness for subjecting us to a sadistic creative experiment?

Roycemadeit:
I shared most of all I'd said here from one of the books I'd read overtime in my quest for more insight on what life is. I believe all your questions would be answered when you go through its pages.

Thanks, I'll take a look at the book.

I am not subjected to say anything is wrong or right. All is all in the process of becoming Who We Are.

Is this all you would say to, for example - a serial killer - who finds happiness therein?

beresponsible:

Not a laughing matter.