₦airaland Forum

Blabbermouth:
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the word"... Is the WORD a Person?

I quoted 1 John 1:1-2 for you where Jesus Christ was said to be ETERNAL

but you jumped to ask me another question.

Deal with 1 John first.

Is your word a person? So far, I see an Eternal Spirit and an Eternal God. As for me, I see God as " Higher than a Person"...

The Son said to be ETERNAL in that verse.

Deal with that first before we move to another!

Blabbermouth:
With the Old testament only, proof that Jesus was "Divinity become Humanity"

Before I continue with this, I'll simply ask you this so that we can have a base to start.

1. To you, what makes God to be God? (just list, no explanation is required)

Blabbermouth:
Bible verse please!

About the Father - KJV: The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them. Deu 33:27

KJV:  Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen 1 Tim 1:17

About the Son - That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us) 1 John 1:1-2 KJV

About the Holy Spirit - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Hebrews 9:14


You can see how scripture said THE THREE PERSONS are ETERNAL.

Now back to my questions, is God eternal?

If Trinity wasn't Biblical, how can you explain THREE DIFFERENT PERSONS said to be ETERNAL?

Maximus69:
Walahi Talahi you guys just dey fall my hand i swear!

At least you know your brothers are falling your hand

Why not leave Emusan to go and force his Johhannine Comma in all other translations of the Bible?

Why are you so bitter about those who have the johannine Comma in their translations?

Abi it's Jehovah's Witnesses that translated all other versions that refused to add his Comma?

The purpose of this thread is to present the evidences that support the credibility of the COMMA which I did and as more facts are being unearth like the UMLAUT (Double dots) that was discovered in 1995 from oldest Greek manuscript - Vaticanus which appears rightly where the COMMA appeared in many translations today.

So, most translations that didn't have the COMMA based on the early points listed on page 2 of this thread might reconsider at new edition but the most important thing is, will JWs have COMMA in their translation as others will be reviewing theirs?

Peacefullove:
Cyprian quoted a phrase from verse 8 and applied it to Trinity . No such verse existed , so he only quoted and misapplied the phrase. For such verse to exist , he would have quoted it.

Shameless lying liar!

The @color part is what I'm actually waiting for your lying mouth to vomit.

Everyone can see how shameless your are now.

Blabbermouth:
It's a bitter truth to some but at the end of the day, it is what it is - Trinity is unbiblical.
The only issue I have with JW's stand in the Trinity or No Trinity doctrine is them falsely equating Jesus with Angel Michael.
That's outrageously false!!!

If Trinity is umbilical!

1. How come there are THREE persons identified in the scripture to be ETERNAL?

2. Is God not ETERNAL?

Peacefullove:
If such a verse existed , That which is written which mentions Father , son and Holy spirit would have been QUOTED . For him Not to have quoted it, He was applying verse 8 to the TRINITY. Told you this without number, when will you learn ??

Shameless liar!

Was verse 8 about the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost?

No wonder you can't give straight answer to the question because your lying mouth will be exposed.

How can Cyprian apply verse 8 which is not a TRINITARIAN VERSE to support Trinity and even went further to say "IT IS WRITTEN OF the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost..."

Such a verse existed and he could only make reference to ONlY a phrase ?? Guy.... Go and pray

Shameless idiot

Christ and the Apostles quoted many phrases from the Old Testament, does that mean those verses weren't in existence for them not to have quoted it in full?

Lying liar mouth!

Kobojunkie:
Read it to learn that !

Do you learn from people post or you think you're above them in scripture understanding?

Kobojunkie:
Ok. so go tell them to do that. I don't see what that has to do with any of what I am here for or have posted so far.

So what has your post up there got to do with the OP?

Peacefullove:
That u went ahead to indicate in a footnote that it's verse 7 proves you are indeed a Fraudster, If I didn't challenge you on who make that reference, You would have made it seem Cyprian himself did. Fraud

Shameless lying liar!

I've provided enough evidence to show that Cyprian actually quoted verse 7 but a lying mouth still deceiving himself that it's verse 8 without a single proof.

No wonder the lying liar couldn't answer the simple question, if verse 8 was about the the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit... for more than 10times the question has been thrown to him.

Peacefullove:
Learn to calm down , Cyprian ONLY quote " and these three are one " . U can't dispute that , and these appear also at verse 8.

Learn to be honest for once.

Does verse 8 about the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit?

This is the question you're still unable to answer since simply because you're of your father the devil.

If such a verse existed, he would have quoted it in full. Not a phrase , (" " ) , It's like you don't know the meaning of quote sef

A primary school English student knows when a simple sentence like "IT IS WRITTEN OF...." is made, the person is pointing to something except a dull and brain death JWs.

Here you testify he only quoted the phrase .

" this phrase "and these three are one" - Emusan

Was verse 8 about the persons of the Holy Trinity?

For Cyprian to have said "It is written of..."

No such verse existed. He only applied Trinity to verse 8

Idiot, even after provided the original translation of his work and even a 5th century bishop quoted his work to support the written of the same COMMA.

Does verse 8 about the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost?

You can't answer this because your work is a manifestation of your father the devil who is a liar from beginning.

Janosky:
False claim

Provide your own true claim!

SonOfALion:
[img]https://images./2uUrTUykrdhUiDebGWzuAJ.jpg[/img] [img]https://images./2CeTCBDFmvYR1N8yretNlj.jpg[/img] [img]https://images./5CKHnlXpHH5Cdl6arqfrbt.jpg[/img] [img]https://images./2U4hF1F0mrmKDZdoFZWi82.jpg[/img] [img]https://images./3zl16l2qJAwhsLagr1fOEA.jpg[/img] [img]https://images./2vkzXOqMfaiycDbxjRa7cY.jpg[/img]

More points have been provided above

Thanks for your submission!

Janosky:
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible says it is likely this verse is not genuine

The KJV version "bear record in heaven, the Father, the word and the holy ghost" is radically different from other Bible translations.
It is a FRAUD , the evidence abounds.

Bros Fortran, No dey DECEIVE yourself

Hypocrite and liar JWs

This was Adam Clarke's conclusion

Though a conscientious believer in the doctrine of the ever blessed, holy, and undivided Trinity, and in the proper and essential Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, which doctrines I have defended by many, and even new, arguments in the course of this work, I cannot help doubting the authenticity of the text in question; and, for farther particulars, refer to the observations at the end of this chapter.

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/1_john/5.htm

The funny thing about you hypocrite is that among those who totally rejected the insertion of 1 John 5:7 into Bible are TRINITARIANS.

In his commentaries on the same 1 John 5:21 Clarke says "And it is through this revelation of Jesus that we know the ever blessed and glorious Trinity; and the Trinity, Father, Word, and Holy Ghost, in the eternal, undivided unity of the ineffable Godhead."

@underlined -- We can see how Clarke used the same wordings as the COMMA does, which means Clarke didn't totally reject 1 John 5:7

AntiChristian:
Advocatejare, contractkiller come and defend this o!

The person you quoted was on this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/6032299/johannine-comma-1-john-5 but couldn't refute the evidences put forth.

MistadeRegal:
There are some people who lack understanding about the mission of our LORD JESUS CHRIST on earth, and due to their inability to understand, they misquote and misinterpret the Biblical record of Matthew 15:24, making their claims JESUS CHRIST never came for the world.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Look up all the following Bible portions and read, for you might also come across same misconception of doctrines of theirs. They must not mislead you.
They are quick to conclude their belief on the above verse but never have the knowledge to understand the following verses:

Matthew 10:40
He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Luke 9:48
And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

Luke 10:16
He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Luke 22:35
And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

John 1:11-13 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 17:18-20, 24-26, Matthew 12:18-21, Luke 2:26-32, Acts 9:15, Acts 10:45, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:47-48, Romans 3:29, I Corinthians 12:13,

I hope these answers them and clear their misquotations and misconceptions.

It's probably those confused Muslims who usually make such statement.

Shameless lying mouth will never repent

Nothing to say about his ISV again.

No wonder he was so bitter over this thread.

Peacefullove:
I thought you would be reasonable by now, I was wrong . So you admitted it's only that phrase he QUOTED ??

See this nitwit, who needs to go back to primary since you couldn't understand simple English.

"IT IS WRITTEN OF THE FATHER, OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST"

Was verse 8 ever about the Father, son and Holy Ghost?

This question will continue to kill you which is the reason you can't answer.

if such verse exist , There would be a full quote. He quoted verse 8 and apply to TRINITY, that's why he only quoted the phrase alone.

It's the only COMMA the three persons of the Holy Trinity said to be ONE "And THESE THREE (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) are one"

Take to your dull skull again, v8 is "agree in one"

I even gave you an article written around the same time which quoted verse 8 the exact same way Cyprian quoted the phrase

He said "IT IS WRITTEN OF THE FATHER, OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY GHOST" does v8 has any connection with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

U are a fraudster , U even went to bring a document that indicated the verse he quoted in footnote, Is it Cyprian that indicated Chapter and Verse ??

Shameless liar and hypocrite!

That is the original translation of his work to English.

Olodo oshi...

But you know more than the people who translated it and put the footnote as v7

Even Fulgentius Ruspensis referred to Cyprian statement which is still about Trinity.

Fulgentius bishop of Ruspe in North Africa (died 527 AD) cited the Comma, even referring to Cyprian’s citation of the same:

In the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, whose unity of substance we accept, are confident not to confound the persons. For the blessed John the Apostle testifies, saying: ‘There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Spirit; and the three are one. This is also confessed by the most blessed martyr Cyprian in the letter On the Unity of the Church, saying: ‘He who breaks the peace and concord of Christ, he does against Christ’, who in another place says in addition to a collection of the Church, says, ‘scatters the Church of Christ’. And in order to show that there is one Church of the one God, he immediately inserted this into the testimonies of the Scriptures: ‘The Lord says: I and the Father are one. And again: of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit it is written: And the three are one.’”

Shameless fraudster and liar trying to discredit Cyprian evidence with his tiny skull full of sawdust.

Not even that he really agrees with Cyprian doctrines because Cyprian and many early Christian writers are Trinitarian but just wants to keep fooling himself.

Hypocrite!

Peacefullove:
Quote verse 8 in the ISV , what does it say?

See this hypocrite!

So ISV is more accurate than your satanic translation NWT.

ISV contains the vs 7, do you agree with it?

Shameless hypocrite!

u are a fraud, does verse 7 contain " OF " or " the Word " either . Son and Word are the same Greek word ?

Shameless block headed JWs.

No wonder you can't simply answer my question was verse 8 about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, for Cyprian to have said "IT IS WRITTEN OF the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost...?

A Latin writing of Cyprians time reffering to 1John 5:8

"Moreover, I think also that we have not unsuitably set in order the teaching of the Apostle John, who says that 'three bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three are one,' ” (A Treatise on Rebaptism, Section 19).


proved that a reference to Verse 8 could contain the exact words Cyprian used. FOR A FACT, Cyprian Only quoted the phrase " and these three are one "

Was this phrase "and these three are one" about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost for Cyprian could have said "IT IS WRITTEN OF...." this is the question you're dodging since and pretending as if you didn't see just because you know it exposes your lies and blocked head.

Even your fraudulent source puts "it is written" after "of the Father, of the Son, and the Holy Ghost" no wonder you couldn't provide the fraudulent source here.

Shameless lying mouth.

if such a verse existed , Cyprian would have made a FULL Quote rather than half . he definitely has no idea of such a verse.

Your shameless lying mouth will continue to be exposed.

Here is the screenshot from the original source of Cyprian statement.

It is evident that, it was Vs 7 he quoted.

Priscillian

Priscillian of Avila in c. 380 AD quotes the Comma:

"As John says, "There are three that give testimony in earth: the water, the flesh and the blood; and these three are one and there are three that give testimony in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Spirit; and these three are one in Christ Jesus." (Liber Apologeticus, I.4)


The order of verse 7 and 8 is reversed, but the Comma nonetheless existed by 350 AD, which is the date of the earliest Greek manuscripts against the Comma (e.g. Sinaiticus and Vaticanus).  Some critics dismiss the significance of Priscillian's citation due to  the fact that he was considered a heretic. These critics may even go as far as to say that Priscillian forged the Comma. But Priscillian was considered a heretic because of his extreme asceticism and Manichaeism. Forging the Comma would not have helped in furthering any of these heretical beliefs.

Cyprian

Cyprian (c. 210 - 258 AD) quotes the Comma:


“Dicit Dominus, Ego et Pater unum sumus; et iterum de Patre et Filio et Spiritu sancto scriptum est: 'Et tres unum sunt.'” (Treatise I:6).


"The Lord says, "I and the Father are one; " and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, "And these three are one."

The evidence of the Latin writers:

Tertullian

Tertullian (c. 155 - c. 245 AD) makes a truncated reference to the Comma:

"Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, one from the other, which three are one, not one [person], as it is said, "I and my Father are One.""

---

Furthermore, Tertullian alludes to the Comma in De Baptismo:

[b]"Not that in the waters we obtain the Holy Spirit; but in the water, under (the witness of) the angel, we are cleansed, and prepared for the Holy Spirit. In this case also a type has preceded; for thus was John beforehand the Lord's forerunner, preparing His ways. Thus, too, does the angel, the witness of baptism, make the paths straight for the Holy Spirit, who is about to come upon us, by the washing away of sins, which faith, sealed in (the name of) the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, obtains. For if in the mouth of three witnesses every word shall stand: while, through the benediction, we have the same  (three) as witnesses of our faith whom we have as sureties of our salvation too, how much more does the number of the divine names suffice for the assurance of our hope likewise! Moreover, after the pledging both of the attestation of faith and the promise of salvation under three witnesses, there is added, of necessity, mention of the Church; inasmuch as, wherever there are three, (that is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,) there is the Church, which is a body of three."[/b]

Origen

Origen (c. 184 - c. 253 AD) or Pseudo-Origen quoted the Comma in Selecta in Psalmos (PG XII, 1304):

"Behold, the eyes of bondservants in the hands of their lord, as the eyes of a bondwoman in the hands of their lady, so are our eyes towards the Lord our God, until he may pity us; spirit and body are the bondservants of the Lord Father and Son; but the soul is the bondwoman of the lady Holy Spirit. And the Lord our God is three, for the three are one."

Now let's move to the next stage!

By bringing the support of the early Christians writers.

Let's start from the Greek writers.

Athanasius

By "Athanasius", it is meant Athanasius (c. 296 – 373 AD) or Pseudo-Athanasius (c. 350 - c. 600 AD).  Athanasius quoted the Comma in Disputatio Contra Arium:

"But also, is not that sin-remitting, life-giving and sanctifying washing [baptism], without which, no one shall see the kingdom of heaven, given to the faithful in the Thrice-Blessed Name? In addition to all these, John affirms, 'and these three are one.'"

Athanasius quoted another portion of the Comma in Quaestiones Aliae:

"Even as my soul is one, but a triune soul, reason, and breath; so also God is one, but is also triune, Father, Word, and Holy Ghost....  For as soul, reason and breath are three features, and in substance one soul, and not three souls; so Father, Word and Holy Ghost, [are] three persons, and one God in substance, and not three gods."

I can see you can't provide your fraudulent source again.

Why are you ashamed of providing your fraudulent source.

And this has settled my post about Cyprian statement.

Peacefullove:
No such verse exist , that's why he didn't gave a full quote , but only that phrase written in Verse 8. He applied it because it fit his narration

I remember I gave you a tutorial on different between verse 7 & 8 but blocked head and dishonesty won't allow you to learn, now it has come back to hunt you.

RECAP!!!

This was my previous post

---

Let me also tutor you because I know you lack wisdom

This is what appears "τρεις εν εισιν" in the Comma rather than of "τρεις εις το εν εισιν" in verse 8. The Greek in verse 8 has the preposition "εις".

---

The reason I brought this back is because I know you lack knowledge of the subject matter but only after lying and distracting and detailing the thread.

Now, from above ONLY in the COMMA (verse 7) you will find "AND THESE THREE ARE ONE" according to Greek used while the Greek that appears in verse 8 is translated by all versions as

"the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. NWT

NET
the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement.

NIRV
They are the Holy Spirit, the birth of Jesus, and the death of Jesus. And the three of them agree.

NIV
the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

NIVUK
the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

NKJV
And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

NLV
There are three who speak of this on the earth: the Holy Spirit and the water and the blood. These three speak the same thing.

NLT
the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree.

It's evident that Cyprian actually quoted the COMMA and not verse 8 this is even in support with the MENTION OF THE THREE PERSONS OF THE TRINITY but your lying mouth said otherwise.

Peacefullove:
Personal expressions are in the quote , agree ?

Concerning which is written , Check your point 3 , there is a special quote " "

If such a verse existed , Cyprian would have directly QUOTE everything rather than a single phrase which occur at verse 8 .

No personal expression anywhere.

Where is your sources?

So where was it WRITTEN that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost was said "AND THE THREE ARE ONE"?

Peacefullove:
Linked with pure personal expression, you don't need to link a direct quote

You haven't provide your fraudulent source.

But it's evident Cyprian isn't quoting verse 8

So we can ask, where was it WRITTEN that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost said to be ONE?

Peacefullove:
You are the fraudster, so the Lord says is not a personal expression ?

Olodo..
The Lord says shows he's repeating what Jesus Christ said
and "IT IS WRITTEN" means he's statement was already put down somewhere.

Jozzy4:
The " OF the son" is more closely related to Matthew 28:19,20 , going by your alluded theory, it's not new for someone to alluded to different quotes in a single statement. Do you notice only these three are one and I and my Father are one are quoted SEPARATELY ?

Cc: Peacefullove

I can see the reason you people are fighting tooth and nail just to discredit Cyprian evidence.

And it's just so unfortunate how you people keep exposing your ignorance of simple English.

1. "IT IS WRITTEN" (that is someone has already jolt it done somewhere)

2. OF the Father, of the Son, and Of the Holy Ghost

3. "and these three are one"

And the COMMA says:

"For there are three who bear witness in heaven, The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, AND THESE THREE ARE ONE"

A good student of English can see the wording of COMMA in Cyprian statement except the liars.

The verse starts with BEARING WITNESS IN HEAVEN and Cyprian argument wasn't about BEARING WITNESS but centered on where THE THREE PERSONS are said to be ONE.

Jozzy4:
We can even say he was quoting Matthew 28:19'20 where Of the Father , of the son , of the Holy spirit appears.
Do you admit there are personal expressions in the quote like peacefullove pointed out ?

Does Matt 28:19-20 have "and these three are one"

No personal expression unless to you fraudsters.

"IT IS WRITTEN of...." makes it clear that he's just referencing what has already been said.

Peacefullove:
Even your source could NOT bail you .

Where is " OF " in 1John 5:7 ? Where is the Son ??

For the last time
Provide your source and let us see.
Simple English is worrying you.
Go back to primary school.

Peacefullove:
The Three persons mentioned are Cyprian expression just as The Lord says was his expression . GET SOME THINKING

Liar, it's not his expression but what was written

"OF" is to show where the THREE PERSONS OF THE TRINITY were mentioned ALL TOGETHER and linked with "AND THESE THREE ARE ONE"

Only COMMA has it not verse 8.


Only a fraudulent person will link verse 8 with the three persons.

Peacefullove:
" oF " didn't even appear in the so called verse, neither did he use Word . I even strike through some of the post to open your eyes

You this Fraud .... Is The Lord says part of the John 10:30 quote or Cyprian expression ?

Did Cyprian making DIRECT QUOTE?

He said "The Lord says" which means "I and my Father are one" is what the Lord says


Further, he said "IT IS WRITTEN of..." which means the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost has been linked with "and these three are one" yet verse 8 isn't about the FATHER, Son, and the Holy Ghost.

The point here is that it's only COMMA that linked the THREE PERSONS OF THE TRINITY with "AND THESE THREE ARE ONE"

So Cyprian couldn't have quoted verse 8 when the verse isn't about the three persons of the Trinity.