₦airaland Forum

DappaD:
I beg you Emusan, don't come here with these your silly false accusations and address the question that me and others have been asking on this thread

We've not reached anywhere he has started shouting.


I can't find any question of you people here maybe you can ask again....

DappaD:
Really? So can you please explain Genesis 2:7 & Ecclesiastes 12:7 to everyone on this thread?

It had been established on this thread that the Hebrew word translated as SOUL has different meaning and I'm sure no one can deny that.

Firstly, Gen 2:7 used one of the meaning of that word.

Just like the Hebrew word translated as EARTH

Secondly, Ecclesiastes 12:7 established that SOMETHING FROM HUMAN will return to God after death which nullified the lie that NOTHING survives human after death.

Lastly, different verses from the Greek New Testament separate the Body from Soul and Spirit.

DappaD:
shadeyinka attempted to make it seem like all those three are different aspects of a human being that can stand on their own. But Genesis 2:7 begs to differ

And the fact is, those are three aspects of human being that can stand on their own that's why scripture do distinguish them.

No wonder you people only use Hebrew Text but not considering how the Greek word was used in the Bible.

DappaD:
shadeyinka :1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ”

DappaD : In Paul's letter to the Christians in Thessalonica, when addressing the brothers — he was talking about the entire Christian congregation. So he prayed for the preservation of the “spirit,” or mental disposition of the congregation. He also prayed for its “soul,” its life, or existence, and for its “body”​—the entire body of anointed Christians. See 1Corinthians 12:12,13 for explanation about this “body”


shadeyinka : Let me play along with you:
At death, the spirit goes to God and the body goes to the earth/ground: where does the soul go to?

DappaD : Genesis 2:7

And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life , and the man became a living person[soul]

The equation goes like this:
Dust + Breath of life = Living soul

The dust and breath of life on their own can't make a human being, only when the two go together. So when a person dies, the dust goes to the ground and the breath of life goes back to God because he is the one who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

You strike out her first statement, why?

Does human not have Spirit, Soul and Body according to the scripture?

Does Soul not distingsh from Body many times in the scripture?

cornelboy:
I understand you now.
It means you agree that, the word soul used here, "kill the body and soul" is a synonym for life or breath of life or spirit. While the soul used at Ezekiel 18:20 and Gen. 2:7 means "being" or one's whole self

Generally, soul which is nephesh in Hebrew means a "being or creature".

For you to KILL something, it means what you KILLED has life or conscious of his/her/itself because absent of life means death.

Then as you're insinuating since that the soul/breath of life returned to God after the body is dead.

Then can we conclude that the soul/breath of life is conscious of itself that's why God can kill it at resurrection according to you?

because I don't know how God will kill what doesn't have life!

Leokinghenry12:
Have you ever checked the meaning of the word atheist?. Many people believe atheist are people who do not believe in christ or they are the anti-christ. That's very wrong.
Do you believe in other gods? If No. Then u are an atheist.

And this is coming from someone who always claims he has higher IQ than the Theists.

See how he's exposing his lack of basic knowledge.

Maximus69:
ARGUMENTATIVE Emusan!

JWs detests that word (torture) because it reminds us of your god that will torture his children for not worshiping him!

So in what way do you think JWs will justifiably use torture to correct our own children when we're struggling to depict the qualities of our own God?

That's where you failed woefully Sir!

Says the deluded JWs whom TORTURED STAKE full his demonic translation. Which makes it the most organization that uses the word TORTURE most.

But your god killed his first created son by tortured him on a stake.

Always justified the reason of calling him hypocrite and deluded JWs.

You'll see how the deluded will change tune and begin to beat about the bush now!

Maximus69:
You are young but not too young to stand for what you know is right.

Many young children we tortured because they wanted to worship JEHOVAH, i know two little children (Isaiah 13 and Miracle 9) in my neighbourhood whose parents beats them everyday because they refused to go to church after attending meetings of JWs for the first time.

And I know many JWs parents whom through disfellowsip tortured their children because they refused to go to the meeting again.

remsonik:
Mohammed was born 570 years after the death of christ

It shows you didn't understand the OP

The point is, the cross shows Christianity entered Pakistan before Islam.

Do you get it now?

Mathscum:
It only proves that cross was used for idol worship period

Which idol they used to worship with Cross in Pakistan about 1,200 years ago?

Mariaodiba:
The first was the response on why divorce is unacceptable as a Christian not a directive that a man should have only one wife.

I've settled this before!

The second refers to elders....Are we all elders?? Or are we all going to be elders??

The only reason to me is to avoid the challenges that Apst. Paul outlined for leaders on marriage.

This was my reply to that which you raised again!

This isn't about qualification for a selected position but what are expected from ALL BELIEVERS

Are believers expected to be:

1. Blameless?
2. Not having faithful children?
3. Very selfwilled?
4. Quick to get angry?
5. Given to much wine?
6. Be striker?
7. Given to filthy lucre?

Are these only meant for elders and not ALL BELIEVERS?

These are what mentioned in that verse, so if believers are not to engage in any of these, why do you think HAVING ONE WIFE isn't applied to them?

Kobojunkie:
I hope you understand why I find it very hard to believe that you in fact read this...

You don't need to believe understanding of that chapter will proof it.

... and came away believing that what God wants is for you to discipline your body, thay which he clearly made known, in verse 5 (not included), essentially means nothing?

The funny thing is, you're the one who have been shouting since that read the whole chapter but only for you to start the quote from verse 6, why?

Bcoz you know it'll expose your lies and lack of scriptural understanding of the whole issue.

Let me quote it from a relevant place with emphasis for better understanding.

3 They say, ‘Why have we gone without food, and You do not see it? Why have we put away our pride, and You do not know it?’ See, on the day you do not eat, you do what you want to do, and make it hard for all your workers.

Here God made it clear that on the day they didn't eat (fasting):

1. They do what they want to do (some translations used "pleasure" which means they satisfy their bodies with anything they feel the body wants. Of course we already know what they satisfied their body with isn't food since fasting is already knows as not eating.

So what are the things they satisfy their body with?

Se.xual pleasure will be part of it even though it wasn't clearly stated but looking at the way some translations rendered that particular verse we can come to that conclusion.

2. They oppressed their workers...instead of doing good works or works if righteousness.

This is the actual fasting God wants!

 [colur=blue]4 See, while you go without food you argue and fight and hit with a sinful hand. Going without food as you do today will not help your voice to be heard on high.[/color]

This is also not what God wants

 5 Is it a time without eating like this that I choose, a day for a man to put away his pride? Is it for bowing his head like a piece of grass, and to spread ashes and cloth made from hair for his bed? Will you call this time without eating a day that pleases the Lord?

Likewise here this isn't the type of fasting God wants.


6 Is not the time without eating which I choose, a time to take off the chains of sin, and to take the heavy load of sin off the neck? Is it not a time to let those who suffer under a sinful power go free, and to break every load from their neck?

This is where we're going!
Like I said earlier, to fast simply means to deprive oneself of food.

So what does God want during this period?
This verse analyses the key points:

1. A time to take off the chains of SIN and to take the heavy load of sin off the neck (some translations used "to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke...")

2. is it not a time to let those who suffer under a sinful power go free (some translations "and to let the oppressed go free,...")

3. and to break every load from their neck (some translations used "and that ye break every yoke?)

All these aren't about good works or works of righteousness as you earlier implied but pulling down the stronghold of the wickedness just as Christ said to His followers when they couldn't cast out demon.

"This goest out not without Prayer and Fasting"

And this is the same point God reinforced in the first part of that verse 3 that "if they didn't give their body into much pleasure, they should be able to pull down stronghold of the wicked" which is the same point Apostle Paul said a couple can deprive themselves of Se.xual pleasure for in other to achieve.

 7 Is it not a time to share your food with the hungry, and bring the poor man into your house who has no home of his own? Is it not a time to give clothes to the person you see who has no clothes, and a time not to hide yourself from your own family?

This is the particular verse you focus on while you neglected the other one which is about doing good works. In fact, some scholars put the first line this way "That the food they deprived themselves that day should be shared to the hungry and needy"

So as you can see, Isaiah 58 didn't support your assertion

Kobojunkie:
so you read up to verse 5 and you conclude still that God wants a day for you to starve yourself in the name of disciplining your body?
Ok!

I've pointed it out earlier that even verse 6-7 you quoted were well in support of Apostle Paul statement.

I'm still waiting for you to list ALL THOSE THINGS God wants us to do during fasting from the said Isaiah 58 and let's compare it with what Apostle Paul said.

Kobojunkie:
read the entire chapter to understand what God is in fact saying

I've done that many times not even started today and what the chapter says is that during fasting our body must be disciplined.

LordReed:
So if Buhari says I want to choose a minister, if any man has a PhD in Business Administration I will choose him, he is asking everybody to go and get a PhD? Or is he listing the qualifications for the post?

This isn't about qualification for a selected position but what are expected from ALL BELIEVERS

Are believers to be:
1. Blameless?
2. Not having faithful children?
3. Very selfwilled?
4. Quick to get angry?
5. Given to much wine?
6. Be striker?
7. Given to filthy lucre?

These are what mentioned in that verse, so if believers are not to engage in any of these, why do you think HAVING ONE WIFE isn't applied to them?

Anyway I am done with you. I always hands off when people start attempting scriptural wrangling, its not my business how you choose to interpret your bible. I will simply state what is written, you can interpret it any how you like.

So you know this before but you're just jumping around like kangaroo....

Kobojunkie:
Oh but you are wrong! When you fast the way God wants, you abandon the need to "discipline" your flesh and instead actually do that which God stipulates.

And I'm telling you that discipline your flesh was part of what God wants during fasting as Isaiah 58:3 supported it.

Go back and read.

I've done that and it's boldly written that you must discipline your flesh!

LordReed:
Tomorrow you will be the one to shout someone is quoting out of context.

Titus 1 (ASV)
5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that were wanting, and appoint elders in every city, as I gave thee charge; 6 if any man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having children that believe, who are not accused of riot or unruly. 7 For the [e]bishop must be blameless, as God’s steward; not self-willed, not soon angry, [f]no brawler, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; 8 but given to hospitality, a lover of good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled; 9 holding to the faithful word which is according to the teaching, that he may be able both to exhort in the [g]sound [h]doctrine, and to convict the gainsayers.

Very clear it was about elders but trust you to twist it to fit whatever narrative you want. LoLz.

When you even quoted the chapter from verse 5 and you couldn't get it.

Nobody is cherry picking anything...

Verse 6 clearly says "If ANY MAN.... or you didn't see that from where you quoted

This is an indication that everyone expected to be blameless, husband of one wife....

Maybe you can say it's only elders that are expected to be BLAMELESS and other believers are not to be blameless.

LordReed:
No the passage was talking about divorce.

Titus 1:6 New International Version (NIV)

6 An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe[a] and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

Oga read your bible na.

The passage is about divorce that gives room for polygamy...



6. if any man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having children that believe, who are not accused of riot or unruly. ASV

Oga Atheist read your Bible very well.

Kobojunkie:
please read and understand the discussion at hand before you jump in.

I can't follow what you are saying because it does not even flow with the convo

I've done that and I see where you're trying to prove that having sex with your wife when fasting is OK as Apostle Paul teaching of "except during fasting that a couple can deprive themselves of their body" is irrelevant as to what God said about fasting in Isaiah 58 that's why the lady can also said if that's your main target you can fire on....

So I'm here to point it out to you that the statement of Apostle Paul was right that is during fasting there should be no sex and that statement compliments the statement of God in Isaiah 58.

LordReed:
There was no recommendation in the Matthew passage you quoted and the recommendation in Titus was for those who wanted to be church elders. You really should read what you are quoting.

First the discussion that Christ addressed was about POLYGAMY and the Title of this thread is "Does the Bible really condemn Polygamy marriage?" which Christ actually did.

Titus 1:6 was for everyone while 7 is for elders

LordReed:
Those are not recommendations to all believers for monogamy. You should read them again yourself.

I'll say you should read it again and again.....

So who are the ones the recommendations meant for?

Kobojunkie:
go read isaiah 58 for yourself

I have read it and I don't see how it contradicts the statement of Apostle Paul.

Can you point it out?

LordReed:
Show me where it was recommended to all believers in Christ.

I did that above, check it!

Mariaodiba:
Biblical prove pls.

Matt 19:4
Titus 1:6

Kobojunkie:
Your argument is moot if what you are trying to do is continue to sell man's fasting over what God says He would rather have from man on his day of fasting.

Can you point out what God says He would rather have man to do on that day? So that we can see how vast is your knowledge about the Isaiah 58

Which man's fasting am I selling here?

LordReed:
It does not but in the new testament it recommends monogamy for those who wish to be Church officials like deacons and bishops.

Not only Church officials but ALL believers in Christ!

Olifiz:
The Bible says abstain from blood. Acts 15:28-29.

Why single out only Blood in that verse?

Kobojunkie:
God tells you in Isaiah 58 that He sees your fasting but calls you instead to works of righteousness.
He is telling you that works of righteousness which He prefers comes with promises to boot, something your fasting does not offer you since it is not done in service of Him.

The entire chapter starts about your fasting and then goes right into what he wants instead.

First of all, she asked you to define fasting but you couldn't after you even wrongly interpreted that Isaiah 58

Secondly, I don't know the point you're trying to bring out by quoting that Isaiah 58

Thirdly, what is your obsession about pastors/preachers?

Lastly, even the Isaiah 58 you cited, emphatically supported the statement of Apostle Paul verse 3 read "They say, “We fast to show honor to you. Why don’t you see us? We starve our bodies to show honor to you. Why don’t you notice us?” But God says, “You do things to please yourselves on those special days of fasting. And you punish your servants, not your own bodies. ERV

The two key points here are:

1. These people fast and still enjoying bodily pleasure instead of subjecting their body into punishment.

2. They did wickedness by also subjecting their workers into hard labour.

The first point is what Apostle Paul addressed

And the point you're trying to bring out didn't nullify the previous point of their fasting but God wants them to be more focus on those point He raised.

Maximus69:
ARGUMENTATIVE Emusan!


Please don't kill yourself Emusan, just take heart hen!

Now, you have added another madness to your initial one to compound it which is spamming someone's moniker.

And you do this intentionally in other to shift attention from the main point

If my moniker DOESNT cause severe pain and suffering for you...it cant be that sweet in your mouth.

So you can continue to console your deluded mind by spamming my mention.

Maximus69:
ARGUMENTATIVE Emusan!

Nobody forced you into this forum Sir!

So if you want to ask questions try doing so with respect, not with insults this your stupidity won't help you anywhere.
Meanwhile go and face your terrorist friends who are ready to kill people for their beliefs sebi you said Christ's followers are cowards for heeding to the orders of their master!
Go now so that you may kill or get killed Sir!

See painment every where, when lies and lies have been uncovered the next thing is to find way to derail the thread and divert attention from POV.

Till now you and your deluded elder aren't be able to provide just a single pastor who handed over his church to his children and even avoided my questions

It's evident that you people thrive on falsehood just as your father the devil.

TATIME:
Maximus69 has given you the answer you seek, so continue crying bitterly like your Pharisaic fathers of ancient times.
Just know that all your pigheadedness will not change the truth, those who want to be free will know it and sieze the opportunity to be freed from the falsehood you're dying for!

Fake elder come shameless liar...

Your father the Devil never dwells in truth so for you to know the truth you must be a Child of Our Lord Jesus because He is the Way, The Truth & The Life!

And the truth is you can't provide a single pastor who handed over his church to his children.

TATIME:
This Emusan dude just like arguing blindly, i guess he derive pleasure in engaging JWs in arguments.
The last time he was pigheaded about the clear order Jesus gave his followers to flee warring zone, instead of asking how Jesus expected people living where his disciples fled from are going to get the good news.
Now he's trying to argue over the issue of family business in the churches, something that's not hidden from everyone.
Please let him be because he's tormented inside him as you keep exposing his folly!

Here come the fake elder as usual....

If it's a family business, tell us any pastor who has handed over his church to his son or daughter.

Is anything wrong for someone who professed faith in Christ raised His children in the way of the Lord?

Do children of your GB find their way to Bethel?

If yes! why?

Oponu elder....