₦airaland Forum

Jozzy4:
U have entered on chance, So you need to do that cover up

Soul is Body ?

If soul is body, do you now agree Soul die ?

I don't know why simple comprehension is sooooo hard for you guys.

My point there, is to show you that the content of Isa 53:11-12 supported immaterial than material which is even the reason why NWT uses LIFE...

Have tutor your brother about different meanings of Hebrew or Greek words.

TATIME:
BODY is the matter you're carrying about, with your BODY you have weight and occupies space and it's the BODY that's seen as responsible for delivering whatever you have in mind. If you wish now to be in America, it's the body that serves as hindrance to your movement because it's a "matter".
SOUL is the LEGACY you left behind, all that you did and accomplished while you're still alive, so while the BODY is what everyone sees God sees both the BODY and all that you're within. That's why Jesus said fear not those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul.(humans) But fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna.(God) God has the ability to kill and destroy all that a person left behind if it's not instituted according to HIS will.

You have started in your delicious again and I can't stop laughing on the length you people can go just to defend your organization and not the truth of the scripture.

If Soul is a LEGACY left behind (which is immaterial), while are you referring to SOUL Jesus talked about as HUMAN again?

Again Jesus statement said "...destroyed both body and soul in Gehenna" yet soul is what you left behind.

Then this topic might not be for you

Go back to the OP or your organization, you'll know that what they mean is BODY and SOUL are the same

Even the OP stress on this by asking, "is the soul IMMORTAL?"

Jozzy4:
Both body and body right ? Calm down, even that verse exposed your lies.

- If the verse is teaching immortal soul, Do you agree BODY also go to hell ? KJV

Secondly , how does it support you since humans kill souls in the bible ?

Yes body and body since you JWs is claiming that Body(you) is the same thing with soul(which is also you)

Did Jesus statement show distinction between Body and Soul in that verse?

That's the question.

About hell "Gehenna" have different meaning just like every other Greek or Hebrew words.

Luke 12:5 also shield more light to it
Moreover, I say to you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body and after this are not able to do anything more. But I will show you whom to fear: Fear the One who after killing has authority to throw into Ge·henʹna. Yes, I tell you, fear this One. NWT

From this passage it's evident that:
1. Body was used and NOT A PERSON
2. Both God and man can KILL
3. But man can only kill AFTER THAT they can't do anything
4. But God can kill AFTER He kill He can then throw your remain into Gehenna.

But you people will overlook all this self explanatory statement but still living in delusion.

TATIME:
Your mother remains important to you even at death but at the mortuary the workers treats her just like any other dead. Because to them she's just a dead BODY but to you that's the SOUL who gave birth,fed,clothe and spent all she had to take good care of you. To the mortuary attendant in parts or the dead BODY as a whole could be exchanged for cash but you'll never sell your mother even at death because she meant a lot to you as a SOUL. So like the mortuary attendant,to Jesus BODIES meant the same but SOULS matters due to the legacy they left behind. Luke 9:60

So what is body?
What is soul?

OneJ:
U are a soul, the total package. Made of dust & the breath of life,or life force (spirit). Gen 2:7.

The soul is not something that resides in U, but U,yourself.

Then why did Jesus said people can kill the BODY but can't Kill the SOUL?

Let me translate that Matt 10:28 for you as your claim.

"And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the body; rather, fear him who can destroy both body and body in Ge·henʹna NWT Matt 10:28

This is the perfect translation for JWs...

Walspring:
You can get M1 but it's for vocational and technical students

Oh thanks very much

Barristter07:


You are very dishonest.

The article didn't just talk about soul living in a body. It says the person is that soul.

" every PERSON you have ever met is a Soul " !!!

Living persons this is while they are alive not just dead . I will revisit the loopholes in your first response.

Read the above again and again

The other site states " YOU ARE A SOUL " , who is You ? Soul. It now adds " You have a body "

Both emphasized that the Soul is the actually person . but having a body.






their Real intent has been exposed above , Yoi are Soul . just having a body



Just a body the Soul [ Jesus] lives in.

' You are a soul , You HAVE a body ' got question

So clear

Your delusions are getting clearer.

So the soul is the person but what of the body
Can you see where your ignorance exposed?

Without the body can you know the person of the soul on this earth?

No amount of dribbling can save you out of this . NWT footnote " OR SOUL " .


Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors. " Isaiah 53:12 ESV , KJV too

So Can you see his Soul have to die?

I can't stop laughing at you...
So Jesus POURED his soul(body) to death, how can a person be poured?

Like I said to your brother, one of the reasons why JWs rejected the personhood of the Holy Spirit is because they said Bible describes Holy Spirit as being POURED upon people. Then concluded a person cant be poured.

But here you're trying to claim now that a person was POURED to death.

The reason why the content of that scripture supported life than just ordinary BODY is because of the preceding statement POUR OUT...that's why even your NWT could use LIFE...

Barristter07:
It's not an exagerration to say you are confused yourself .

Am addressing the Red part , Biggest dishonesty ever exhibited.

The Website refers to a living person as the Soul.

Every PERSON you have ever met, Is a Soul

While they are alive contrary to your claim.

You later admit the Soul is the actual person , But added a Clause , after death .

Gradually it would be exposed.

The question regarding that phrase: part of a person is:

If the Soul is just the part of a person ,For the person to be declared dead , Will the soul not die ?

Is the person dead if the persons part is alive ??

REGARDING the clause. After death



The same person that once have a body ?

I have shown how your. dishonesty is about those articles.

Soul can't die

What I mean by after death is...why the soul is still inside the body, the body expresses the IMAGE of the invincible soul inside after death the physical image is gone leaving the invincible image of the soul which can only be seen spiritually.

OneJ:
1) To quote U "Jesus said body can be kill but soul can't be kill"
Christ pointed out " Be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul & body in hell".
If Arsenal can not beat Man Utd but Chelsea beats Man Utd, does it mean that Man Utd is Unbeatable ?
Receive sense..
Hebrew word for body 'quivah ' meaning living human (that is, a person, living being ) This is synonymous with nephesh (soul,person, living being). If a living being,a soul lives, likewise, dead being, a dead soul exists.
Receive sense !
Why are U guys afraid of references to Hebrew & Greek? The answer is obvious. It's is the authentic means to expose your lies.

This statement of yours is the one that buried your argument..."To quote U "Jesus said body can be kill but soul can't be kill"

See your wack analogy, Arsenal and Man Utd.

The statement of Jesus indicated that NO HUMAN CAN KILL the Soul even though they can kill the body but TO DESTROY the Soul, it's what ONLY GOD can do.

Notice the interchange words KILL and DESTROY

2) U said "If soul means life, then we can equally say soul means emotion,passion, desire" Yes.
But in the context of Matt10:28, soul strictly means life, person, living being.
For instance," Engaged" means busy or 'about to marry'. If someone asks "what's your marital status", but U being a married man replied 'i'm engaged' . It's way out of context.

So you mean Jesus didn't know what He was saying when He said "And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul;"

It's very evident that Jesus sets the distinction between BODY AND SOUL in the verse but you twister twisted it to suit your lies.

3) U said" Jehovah didn't leave Jesus soul in hell". Don't get it twisted out of context.
That statement means that " the person (the soul) we call Jesus was resurrected as a spirit being ("made alive in the spirit" by Jehovah God. 1 Pet 3:18.
In other words, God brought Christ (resurrected him) back to existence with the body of a spirit (spiritual body like that of angels). 1 cor 15:44,-47.
Receive sense..

But the person (the soul) we call Jesus was no more IN THE GRAVE...what then did Jehovah resurrect?

Nothing of the person we called Jesus was in the grave;
>His body vanished
>His soul was actually the body that vanished

Then what was in the grave that Jehovah resurrected

Please house, can another type of visa be given to study in US apart from F-1 or J-1?

MightySparrow:
Taking heb. 10: 10 and john 6: 51 only seem not to go along with the trend, just an observation

You haven't said anything yet, what are those verses intended to proof

MightySparrow:
pls read Heb. 10: 1 - 10; John 6: 22 - 51 and explain. the discourse is getting interesting.

I should read, without knowing the point I want to derive from there...

Now see how you stylishly boycotted Matt 10:28 in your reply.

Jesus said BODY can be kill BUT SOUL can't be kill...

Isn't this enough great evident that SOUL is different from BODY?

OneJ:
source : biblehub.com (nephesh)
Definition
a soul, living being,life, self,person, desire, passion ,appetite, emotion"

Nephesh , soul means life. Therefore its stupidity to quarrel with NWT

Now you've said SOUL=LIFE even when it's obvious from the definition you gave...isn't this delusion?

So if soul means LIFE then we can equally say SOUL means EMOTION, PASSION, desire...

I didn't quarrel with NWT but stating the reason why NWT used LIFE instead of Soul...
Life, Emotion, Passion can be POURED but a soul can't be poured according to your rejection of the personhood of the Holy Spirit.

The soul that sinneth shalt die but the soul justifieth righteous shall live.
Christ pointed out that the soul can be destroyed, that's proof of mortality , block heads !
Where una see spirit being in the definition of soul (nephesh)?

Christ ONLY said the SOUL can be destroyed BY GOD only, He said people can kill the BODY but can't do the same to the SOUL.

Why are you so dishonest with that verse?

"The bread I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world" John 6:51.
"for the son of man....give his life as a RANSOM for many" Mark 10:45
"the SACRIFICE of the body of Jesus Christ once for all Hebrew10:10.

Ransom
". To redeem from captivity, bondage, etc by paying a demanded price"
Sacrifice
"Christ offering of himself "
Source: dictionary.cambridge.org

When u give offering today, shey U go collect am back by fire by force?
What u give as sacrifice ( call am sow seed or any name u want, shey U done take am back?
Una stupidity get PhD. , professorship.

But you're the one who quote Psalms to prove that Jehovah didn't leave Jesus SOUL in the hell.

So isn't SOUL supposed to be the ACUTAL PERSON again?

That was why I asked, what did Jehovah do with Jesus body... the only thing you can do is to change SOUL to mean RAISED in spirit life.

Yet you're still fighting tooth and nail that SOUL IS the Body.

What did Christ voluntarily gave as ransom? His perfect life( soul,flesh).
"Christ was put to death in the flesh but made alive (resurrected) in the spirit"
"It is sown a natural (fleshly) body,it is raised a spiritual body... the first man Adam became a living being (living soul), the last Adam (Christ) a life giving spirit" 1 cor 15:44-47.

He was resurrected with a spiritual body, with the power to materialize into human body (Luke 24:36-39) that is why his apostles couldnt recognize him . Angels did that too when they visited Lot ,Abraham etc. Lazarus was resurrected with same body he died with . He never sacrificed his life as a ransom for the sins of many, which Jesus did.
Receive sense.

All you're doing here is putting you into more confusion.
Your claim is SOUL is actually the PERSON now for you to explain away Jehovah not leaving Jesus SOUL in hell away, you change it to SPIRIT life...

You're still perambulating,

1. Jesus has a body without anything that survived after death
2. This body went to the grave which means NOTHING exist about Jesus again (base on your logic)
3. Yet Jehovah resurrected the dead Jesus (remember nothing about Jesus exist again)
4. What then did Jehovah resurrect from Jesus Christ?

Your claim here is perfectly fit into RECREATION not RESURRECTION which your organization also agreed with.

So basically you people go against Scripture because Bible never teaches recreation.

I know you'll run away from again after I exposed your lies in the other thread.

OneJ:
"What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world,yet forfeits his soul?" Matt 16:26.

"... be afraid of the One who can DESTROY both SOUL & body in Gehenna" Matt 10:28.

Jesus Christ actually confirmed that the soul is very mortal, contrary to Greek philosophical thought founded on pagan ideas & beliefs which has become popular in Christendom .
Besides, Christ knew how man (Adam) was created. He is a very credible & reliable source of truth about the soul.

You can still went ahead to use Matt10:28 when the said verse crumble your lie...

Just as usual and common with your organization you used (...) to hide the most important part of that verse, simply because you know it exposes your lie.

Atheists will tell you that if you use microscope you'll see the shadow...

OneJ:
.
"Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell" ps 16:10, Acts 2:27,31 gives U, the precise answer: God resurrected Jesus from hell on the 3rd day, to live as a spirit being.
"He was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit " 1 pet 3:18. 1 cor 15:43-47.
Christ offered his perfect life, his soul as a ransom sacrifice Mark 10:45.

Now see the irony of your post!
1. Humans (Including Jesus) don't have anything that lives on after they died.
2. Jesus died and gave His body(SOUL)...meaning, the day Jesus died nothing on Him was live.
3. Jesus' body was never found...since Jesus didn't take it back...
4. Yet Jehovah didn't leave Jesus body in hell...which you tactically change to RESURRECTION...
5. Also, Jehovah RESURRECTED Jesus Christ...

Now, in line of this, WHAT ACTUALLY DID JEHOVAH RESURRECTED from the dead Jesus Christ? Since, Jesus body is gone and no soul that survived the death....

Look at what your own organization has to say about resurrection "In the Bible, the word translated as “resurrection” comes from the Greek
a·naʹsta·sis, which means “raising up” or “standing up again.” A person who is resurrected is raised up from death and restored to life as the person he was before. —1 Corinthians 15:12, 13

Christ offered his soul, perfect life as a sacrifice to ransom mankind from bandage of sin & death.
if made a sacrifice, can U take your sacrifice back?
The person who pays a ransom to secure the release of his friend, does he get that ransom back ?
what Jesus paid as ransom sacrifice, he did not take it back.
why is this so hard for U to understand?

If Jesus didn't take the body back, what then did Jehovah take out of hell since he didn't leave Jesus soul(body) in hell?

Why is simple English so hard for you to understand

Jesus said be afraid of the One who can destroy both body & soul. Matt 10:28. By that, Jesus already confirmed that the soul is NOT immortal.
Pls note the word Christ used : "both body & soul " , he emphasized that both are together , still the same thing.

Imagine, and you can lie without shame like this.

Jesus means both BODY and SOUL are the same.. yet the preceding statement read... "and fear not THEM which KILL THE BODY, but are not ABLE to kill the SOUL: KJV

And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna. NWT

This verse is so self explanatory enough that people can KILL the BODY but can't KILL the SOUL but it's only God who can destroy both Body and Soul.

So why did Jesus separate body from soul in the first part?

Christ is showing us that his Father has the authority to destroy the soul,that is termination of the wicked man's prospect of eternal life.
For instance, the destruction of the wicked souls of Noah's day with a great deluge.
Abeg go enrol for English language tutorial. U need am well well.
Pray to receive God's spirit of understanding & wisdom

But the preceding statement was cleared that Jesus spoke about people who kill the body but CAN'T kill soul...

Why would Jesus contradict himself by saying the BODY can be kill but the soul can't be kill by people if both soul and body mean the same thing?

I believe you never see this coming....

The spell from GB must clear from your eyes...it's so evident that watchtower and awake has blocked your eyes from Biblical truth.

OneJ:
Context is key. Nephesh or soul in the bible is strictly about the earthly realm of life.

After I burst you ignorance about how word can have different meanings, you fall back to context.

Now you're talking about context, did you put that into consideration before?

Again, if context is the key then it's you who violated it but you're trying to play smart now.

The reason why even your own TRANSLATION NWT uses LIFE in that verse is very simple, the CONTEXT wasn't about PHYSICAL BODY that's why in KJV it read "...because he hath POURED out his soul"

Mind you one of the reasons JWs rejected the personhood of the Holy Spirit is because they said Bible said Holy Spirit was POURED upon people.

That word nephesh,soul never refers to spirit being

Lastly, you lied here again and I'll continue to expose your ignorance about scripture until you break yourself lose from the bondage of your GB

Everyone reading this should look at the attached picture

I have told you several times that you should stop spamming my mention, once you've already quote my post stop mentioning my name in the same post. last warning!

OneJ:
is asking a question that should not arise if he had read my first post on this thread. Pls go back & read it.
U & Google dey quarrel?
https://www.biblehub.com/hebrew/5315.htm
The Hebrew word "nephesh" meaning life, soul , living being, self ,person etc.
Its Greek equivalent is 'psyche'.
A living soul is an animal or thing that breathes.

U & your crew are SERIAL LIARS.
Si eba puo....

I'll only expose your ignorance about one word with different meanings especially in Hebrew as this relates to our discussion.

1. The word shemayim: it means; heaven, sky, visible heavens, heaven as realm of the stars.

Does it mean these words have the same meaning?

2. The word • ’eretz: can mean; land (1543 times in KJV), earth (712 times), country (140 times), way (3 times), ground.

Does it mean these words have the same meaning?

3.The word raqia: can mean; extended (solid) surface, vault of heaven supporting waters above, firmament, dome, vault.

Does it mean these words have the same meaning?

Let me stop here because they're many.
Now. you can see the reason why one Hebrew word can have different meanings for different purposes depending on the content but you people will ignore the content and cherry pick anything that suit you.

Lastly, one thing you failed to realize is that Hebrew word both have the same view for physical and spiritual, this can be seen from example I gave above.

Can you see now that the word "nephesh" have different words with different meanings including physical and spiritual?

OneJ:
God did not leave Christ soul in hell."Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell" Ps 16:10, Acts 2:27,31.(KJV).

Where was the body if Jehovah didn't leave it in hell?

Or simple question hard for you to answer?

Proof that the soul is mortal. At the risk of exposure of your falsehood, U refused to admit that Jesus was a dead soul ,who was not left in hell.

Imagine, I refuse to admit. why should I admit what the scripture didn't say?

Jesus says we should fear only God who can destroy bith the BODY and SOUL if both are one then Jesus is lying

"...Christ died for sins once for all....was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit" 1 pet 3:18. 1 Cor 15:43-47.
Christ was resurrected as a spirit being (like angels), not with that physical body he had before died.
He had already given his perfect life, his soul as a ransom sacrifice for our sins. Mark 10:45.[quote]Yet Jehovah said he won't leave the SOUL (Body-according to you) in the hell (grave according to you)

So what did Jehovah do with Jesus body, if He didn't leave it in hell?

[quote]what has been sacrificed, or U have sacrificed, is it taken back? Yes or no.
The holy scriptures is precise about it.

But you quote a passage where Jehovah said He won't leave the SOUL(BODY) in hell, if Jehovah didn't take the body back WHY DIDN'T HE leave the SOUL in hell?

"Jesus himself stood among them& said to them: peace be with you". They were startled & frightened thinking they saw a spirit".... Look at my hands& my feet. It is I myself." Luke 24:36-39.

Christ apostles knew Jesus very well , but after his resurrection, they couldn't recognize him. Why ?

Because in order to be visible to them, Christ took on a human body without any wound,not the same body he had before death (recall that the angels who appeared to Lot, Mary Magdalene etc, took on a human bodies. Gen 19:1-3.

@color...still made my question unanswered.
What did Jehovah do with Jesus body since He didn't leave it in hell?

The passage you quoted in Luke 24:36-39 exposes your lie...Jesus said in the passage "Look at my hands & my feet. It is I myself."

Why is Jesus pointing their attention to in His hands & feet?
And lastly, Jesus said "IT IS I MYSELF"
why is Jesus lying when He's not the very person(body-according to you)

Barristter07:
Shows how confused they are , I never assumed anything.

Based on this statement made by compelling truth , " every person you have ever met IS A SOUL , living in a body . emphasis on " living in " shows clear distinction that the body is not the person.

The person is that Soul , living in that body ... Do you agree with this?

I have said it here times without number that the way you JWs show your dishonesty to someone's article is the same way you do to Bible.

The articles have already established that SOUL is PART OF a PERSON! So if the article later went further to talk about soul LIVING IN A BODY, how do you suppose to interpret it?

But you neglected the first point of the article and hold on to next phrase in the same breath, is that not dishonesty?

What if article like this was found in Watchtower or Awake and people quote the part that suit them, will you have agreed with them?

Means he never died .

He was living in a body , Agree ?

What is the name of that BODY?

It did . Isaiah 53:11,12

Because of his anguish, he will see and be satisfied. By means of his knowledge the righteous one, my servant, Will bring a righteous standing to many people, And their errors he will bear. For that reason I will assign him a portion among the many, And he will apportion the spoil with the mighty, Because he poured out his life even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people, And he interceded for the transgressors. Isaiah 53:11-12 NWT

Where does the word SOUL appear in your own translation?

My question still remains unanswered!

OneJ:
Jesus was born a living soul, by Mary his mother. He lived for about 33 yrs & became a dead soul (he died for the ransom of mankind from sin & death) but God resurrected him.("thou wilt not leave my soul in hell" ,Psalms 16:10. Acts 2:27,31 KJV).

You agree that Jesus BODY was not left in hell...

Why do you also agreed that ANOTHER BODY was given to Jesus after resurrection?

Any living person is a living soul & a dead person is a dead soul. James 2:26. ( Pls Google"soul in the Bible" wikipedia) . The Wikipedia gives U the historical antecedents of immortal soul belief & what the Bible says about the soul. ).
Your body & soul na the same,according to the Bible ,(Eccl 3:18-20,Gen 3:19, "For dust you are to dust will return" or U wanna claim that God lied to Adam ?
Eccl 12:7 did not say the soul goes somewhere, but the breath of life (the spirit,life force) returns to God who gave it at creation of Adam. Gen 2:7, James 2:26.

The soul that sinneth shall die.
In like manner, the soul that is justified righteous (by Christ Jesus) shall live.
No be rocket science.
Shalom.

Why was ANOTHER BODY was given to Jesus after resurrection then? According to your belief!

Barristter07:
https://www.compellingtruth.org/amp/human-soul.html says about Soul

"The human soul is eternal and imperishable, and every human soul will be somewhere for eternity. This is a sobering thought— every person you have ever met is a soul, living in a body, and that soul will last forever. "


Gotquestion, another popular website says regarding the soul



" The human soul is central to the personhood of a human being. As George MacDonald said, “You don’t have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.”

https://www.gotquestions.org/amp/human-soul.html

From the definitions above, The human soul is the Person . as compelling truth analyses You are only " living in a body "

Using this context for this discussion:

We have established that the Person is the soul , the Body is an ordinary home of that Person [ Soul ] , therefore the body Is not the person just the home where the Soul [Person ] lives

If the above postulations are Correct, Can you prove that the person called Jesus Died for your sins ? Or ordinary body ?

This is the actual part I want to address because here is your mistake, you added your own assumption where the writer didn't.

We have established that the Person is the soul , the Body is an ordinary home of that Person [ Soul ] , therefore the body Is not the person just the home where the Soul [Person ] lives

From the above two link you provided I came with this part that either you deliberately ignored or couldn't understand.

compellingthetruth.org "The human soul is that part of a person that is eternal —the part that lives on after the body dies and decays."

gotquestions.org "Simply stated, the human soul is the part of a person that is not physical."

What was your own assumption? You assumed that THE PERSON is mainly the SOUL whereas both articles established that the SOUL is PART of that person.

NOTE: Emphasis must be placed here, the only condition SOUL can be also referred to as PERSON is after DEATH where the SOUL is now the actual person in the SPIRIT REALM.

You got it wrong when you think people only refer to soul as person including when the person is still alive.

gotquewtions.org said this "The human soul is central to the personhood of a human being.

To your question, Jesus person died for our sin by giving His BODY!

Now my question, if SOUL is just the person, why did Bible never use the word SOUL for Jesus sacrifice?

eventtinz:
no one can prove you wrong ,simply because the body of proof lie with the believer.if you claim tupac is still alive...you don't tell people to prove you wrong...you prove to us with magnificent evidence for making such magnificent claims...agree?

That's a fact lie, what if you provide the name of the hospital where he died, the name of the doctor who confirmed him dead and the death certificate signed by the doctor, the video of his funeral including where the coffin was opened and the unbroken video still shows how the coffin was led down in the grave then covered?

Can that serve as evidence of your proof or not?

LordReed:
You believe multiple gods exist, sovereign or not

Yes I believe! So what is your point?

Mind you, your first post I replied to was asking a Christian whether he believes in the EXISTENCE of Allah e.t.c

Now, let me see whether you won't go back to my early point.

LordReed:
LoL. Feel free to produce evidence for any god.

But you're not free to provide your own evidence for absence of god.

You don't know how the universe was created but you refuse to admit it, you just "believe" that God created it. What then created God since it can not create itself has stuck in your throat.

Universe was created and God isn't part of the universe so God can't be created?

Unlike you, I freely admit to not knowing anything before the big bang. It is well established that the universe is expanding and thus was smaller than it is now, alot smaller. What the conditions were before the expansion is unknown.

You think you're smart, you used big bang to hide the word BELIEVE.

You admitted but it means you took everything you were told could have happened before big bang by FAITH.

WHO established IT, yourself Or what you were told and YOU BELIEVED?

Yet you can accused me of 'JUST BELIEVE'

Are you different from me then?

You are free to imagine a god created it but also admit you have no evidence nor do you know what created a god.

Likewise, you are free to imagine a god didn't create it.
You that have the evidence, why can't you provide it?
Yet all what you accept about universe is a product of what SOMEONE SAID not YOUR OWN RESEARCH.

LordReed:
LoL! Which one is this sophistry you are on? You believe Sango exists ergo you believe in multiple gods, what is hard in it for you to understand? Whether you only put trust in one is irrelevant, you literally believe there are multiple gods. You can use sophistry all you want, this is what you believe.

Look at the bold...isn't that my stance from beginning

But I know the angle you're driving towards that LITERALLY believe there are multiple gods means I'M AN IDOLATRY.

You started with existence then to believe IN, can't you see how confuse you are

When even a primary school students know that there's a difference between existence and sovereignty

stay off my mention on this

LordReed:
I know no such thing. You make a claim for your god and I ask you why that claim cannot be held for the universe as there is NO EVIDENCE for any sort of god.

No evidence for any sort of god by who, you or me?

What I said is universe can't create itself, if you know it can, proof me wrong.

LordReed:
Wait, you believe that Sango exists but don't believe he can do stuff is that what you are saying?

Is this how intelligent you are?

I believe Sango exists but Sango isn't a SOVEREIGN GOD.

How is simple English difficult for you like this

Does this put me and you in the same category?

You neither believe in the existence of Sango/any god nor their sovereignty...

LordReed:
When you ask someone "Do you believe in God?" are you not asking if they accept his existence?

Hmmmmm and this supposed to be an intelligent question to you?

No I'm not asking ONLY if they accept His existence BUT putting their absolute trust in His sovereignty.

Though, the question can be just about the existence (For Atheist) but this is not so for Theist. That's why you can't see even a Muslim saying Christian don't have God but rather worshipping the wrong/fake god.

LordReed:
LoL, you have resurfaced? You didn't answer my response to you but want to answer this one. I guess you actually believe in multiple gods then. LMFAO!

I will check the post and I didn't see your mention.

If you say God is uncaused then a similar argument can be made for the universe, the universe is uncaused. It is better cos we do not see the influences of any gods in this universe.

You know yourself that the universe can't be uncaused i.e create itself.

LordReed:
What caused God?

God is the uncaused Creator.

Barristter07:
you finally admit Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians then, so what's your problem if those Christians who lived before our time are also called Christians ? " Early " just signified a timeline

Which witness una dey give about Jesus o ,Ogbeni ?

From where did you read that in my post?

That's how your fellow dead skull brother accused me of lying that I said Herald of Jesus was ADOPT as a name by JWs.

The witnesses we give about Jesus is the same witnesses the Apostles, Early Christians & Martyrs of Christ gave which is: Luke 24:46-48 "In this way it is written that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day, and on the basis of his name repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nations-starting out from Jerusalem, YOU are to be witnesses of these things."
Acts 10:43 "To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone putting faith in him gets forgiveness of sins through his name."