₦airaland Forum

TATIME:
Story! Story!! Story!!! Please just address me as one of Jehovah's witnesses and i'll be just fine. Thanks for the services rendered because I'm OK with our group name,

Well like most people always say, nobody has any problem with JW IF THEIR CLAIMS are personal but going further to degrade or force it on top of the Bible is what we're talking about.

Remember, you people always claimed that nothing you do that can't be found in the Bible.

Look at the bolden...it's now 'OUR GROUP NAME' not a BIBLICAL STANDARD anymore. Which just confirmed the OP

if you're a Christian and i claim to be one of Jehovah's witnesses i think what matters is salvation which is not by name or by mouth but by WORKS

So the works you're achieving your salvation through is lie and deceit...

which Jesus commissioned for faithful ones to do.

This is what Jesus commissioned for faithful ones:

Luke 24:46-48 "In this way it is written that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day, and on the basis of his name repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nations-starting out from Jerusalem, YOU are to be witnesses of these things."

Acts 10:43 "To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone putting faith in him gets forgiveness of sins through his name."

So even if i call myself Sango or Obatala what matters is "doing the will of Jesus' father" namely obeying the command of God's son to go out to preach and teach my neighbors about God's Kingdom.

Jesus commandment is this "Luke 24:46-48 "...and on the basis of his name repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nations-starting out from Jerusalem, YOU are to be witnesses of these things."

See the way you used style to boycott your own comment after I caught you red handed. I'm still expecting your reply to that!

OneJ:
U admitted on this thread that Jesus witnessed for Jehovah.

Quote the statement and what I said concerning that.

He was sent by Jehovah. He is a JW confirmed. Rev 3:14. Matt 24:14, John 4:34. Luke 8:1.

Yet He couldn't ADOPT the name Jehovah witness nor any of His disciples.

The million dollar question is , Emusan are U a witness for Jehovah?

I witness to Christ just as His Father is a witnesses of Him.

I've explained that Rev 3:14 just that you people are just act like Robot, no input on your own.

Rev 3:14 even from NWT is "...from Jesus Christ, 'THE FAITHFUL WITNESS'..."
The point here is Jesus is actually the focal point of everyone.

To come here & write all this jargon is nothing but IBERIBEISM mode activated.
If U don't like JW or the name Jehovah's witnesses, no qualms.
Pls remain in your lane.
Case closed.

You called it jargon....and it's coming from someone who said [quote]"In pre- christian era, faith & obedience to Jehovah's righteous standard set apart (from their contemporaries) the men of faith as worshippers of Jehovah. They don't have to call themselves Jehovah's witnesses in order to prove that they were. Heb11:1-40."[/qupte]

So today you people don't have faith and obedience to Jehovah righteous standard, that's why you can be shouting Jehovah's witness up and down.

It's evident that your publication lied that's why you and your brother were perambulating and shooting yourselves in the legs.

Just imagine how your brother lied against the missionaries and early Christians just to gain cheap points.

TATIME:
My advice for you is to keep working out what the truth means because the other guy is always attending meetings with Jehovah's witnesses yet he can't remain nor go elsewhere since there's NOWHERE else to go for pure worship!

Yet you couldn't hid your face in shame...
making mockery of yourself thinking playing with salvation is the best.

You lied about Colonialism and missionaries who have brought great light to Africa without a single mission than to spread the good news about salvation.

You lied against the early Christians....

You lied just to justify your organization while diminishing the word of God.

You want to be called a Jehovah witness which Bible didn't recognize but discard (not only discard but also degraded) THE ONLY NAME Bible recognized Christianity.

In Acts 26:28 King Agrippa asked Apostle Paul, "...“In a short time you would persuade me to become a Christian.” At this Paul said: “I wish to God that whether in a short time or in a long time, not only you but also all those who hear me today would become men such as I am,..."

Here Apostle Paul didn't deny being a Christian infact he wished King Agrippa and his men be one just as he is a Christian.

But you can open your mouth to say you should be addressed as Jehovah witness

If you're truthful to yourself, do a research on how your organization ADOPTED the name JW.

You even lied against Jesus being the one who instructed you to ADOPT a name (which your organization had already claimed to be in existence before Jesus era).

TATIME:
With all these contradictions in the name of Christianity, abeg just refer to me as one of Jehovah's witnesses. God bless you!

Imagine see how my post rendered you dump...

You lied against the disciples and early martyrs that Jesus gave command but they didn't follow it by refuse to run away and died in the hands of their tormentors.

Do you agree that you lied about Missionaries and the Colonial Masters?

I should refer to you as JW when the Bible says "But if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not feel ashamed,..." 1 pet 4:16 NWT

You can see the reason why the disciples and the early Christians died as a Christian and not as a Jehovah witnessess...

Now it's "CONTRADICTIONS IN THE NAME of Christianity" after you degraded the name and later stylishly claimed the name.

The name that appeared in the scripture whereas Jehovah's witnesses never appeared

The truth will continue to hit you until you people accept Christ as personal Lord and Saviour!

TATIME:
just that you failed to realize that there was NO Christian missionaries if they're "struggling" to preach to those who aren't ready for the good news.

Yet the apostles were so kin and even died in their witnesses for Jesus Christ.

I know you'll twist it that the disciples were actually doing the work of Jehovah.

So why can't people like Stephen run away?

The instruction from Jesus (whom you claimed you're witnessing for) is "where you're not welcome, dust your feet and move to another place" Matthew 10:11-15

But did the disciples run away from Jerusalem when they were persecuted?

Why did Stephen not run away?

So my friend it's clear that those whom your forefathers knew weren't Christians because Jesus never said "insist on preaching in the face of brutal criticism".

This is how you'll know that truly you people are a tool in the hands of the Devil.

Stephen was stone to death, was he hidden before he was caught?
Majority of early Christians died horrible death.
Apostle John was cast into boiling oil, did he run to another country because of that?

Therefore they came "not for Christ" but on another MISSION which is obvious today.

In like manner, we can say those disciples and early martyrs are NOT FOR CHRIST.

These so called missionaries came with "colonialism" and forced your forefathers to worship in the way they knew not,their counterparts (the Arabs) arrived in the northern part of Nigeria forcing them to practice a religion they knew not.

So you can say the missionaries are the one who colonized Africa, do you do history at all?

When did colonial era start in Africa and when did Christianity enter Africa?

Christianity came to Nigeria in 15th century while colonization started in 1900

Can you see the timeline difference?

We're the true Christians that's why our preaching and teaching is exactly the same pattern like that of the first century followers who were called "Christians" because they were preaching and teaching NOT FORCEFULLY from house to house just the same way CHRIST did! Act 20:20

Waoooo, Now you're claiming to be a Christian the same NAME you so degraded in your previous post hmmmm
Here is your statement before:

Today we have adopted our former divinely inspired name so that honest hearted persons could distinguish between true worshippers and thousands of misrepresentations all claiming "Christians". Jesus asked US to separate ourselves with the group name "Christians" in the first century and today He has ordered US to return to that former name as all forms of pagans are becoming comfortable with the old group name "Christians"

Jesus asked you to separate from a group called Christian net you're still a Christian.

Isn't Jehovah wonderful?

OneJ:
Anybody whom the true God has taken for himself ,is a Jehovah's witness. Acts 15:14. U no dey understand English?

And yet these people failed to be addressed as Jehovah witness for once.

It's you who lack basic comprehension.

If u followed the deity of your family/community, do U need to call yourself a devotee, when the facts are already obvious to everyone?

But you called yourself a devotee today...why can't you follow the step of those who didn't bother to call themselves Jehovah's witnesses or your own analogy?

U have NOT actually studied JW literature, rather U perused it looking for perceived "faults ".

I can see that the one I quoted needs a PhD in Watchtower or awake knowledge to understand.

Early Christians were JWs. They imitated Jehovah God & his son,Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:1. ,1Cor 11:1,

Yet your publications never addressed them as Jehovah witnesses but keeping using the phrase "Early Christians"

Imagine, to witness to is now change to "To imitate"
How can you imitate God, please?

But who did Jesus imitate?
"Jesus answered them: I tell you the truth, the son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing..." John 5:19.

So this makes Jesus a Jehovah witness but none of his disciples bothered to address Him once.

In pre- christian era, faith & obedience to Jehovah's righteous standard set apart (from their contemporaries) the men of faith as worshippers of Jehovah. They don't have to call themselves Jehovah's witnesses in order to prove that they were. Heb11:1-40.

Does FAITH and OBEDIENCE to Jehovah's righteous standard not found in your congregations today?

If yes! Then you don't need to call yourself a Jehovah witness since these people also DON'T NEED TO CALL THEMSELVES JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES in other to prove that they were.

But If No! Then you're not a true worshipper

OR BETTER PUT: Why are you going about proving to be a Jehovah witness after FAITH and OBEDIENCE has set you apart from contemporaries?

What of during Christ-era, why the disciples never be addressed as Jehovah witness?

I think they're not obedient and have faith...

Action speaks louder than words.

So you know action speaks louder than words YET YOU PEOPLE ARE GOING ABOUT SHOUTING I'M A JEHOVAH WITNESS. Hypocrite!

For the fact that Christ witnessed for Jehovah, he was a JW, that he didnt adopt the name, JW , doesn't prove otherwise.

Jesus couldn't ADOPT the name,
The disciples couldn't adopt the name,
The old prophets couldn't adopt the name
The early saints couldn't adopt the name
The saints of old couldn't adopt the name
Russell the founder of your organization couldn't adopt the name
BUT suddenly, Rutherford in 1931, can adopt it. isn't that a clear disobedient to God's righteousness and standard?

Yet you couldn't ask yourself this simple question, why all these people never ADOPT this name?

He made Jehovah's name known to his followers (John 17:25,26).He was a preacher of God's kingdom. That's what JWs do. Matt24:14, Mark 1:14,15. Luke 8:1.

Yet Jesus never addressed God as Jehovah for once.

If U are not preaching the gospel of the good news of God's kingdom,the work Jesus did, then U are off key & off point. U are not imitating Jesus.
The day would come ,he will say "I never knew you". Matt: 7:21-23

But are you imitating Jesus who never ADOPT Jehovah's witness as a name?
These are your remarks in case you forget:
1. because of FAITH and OBEDIENCE to Jehovah righteous standard the pre-era Christian doesn't need to use the name.
2. Early Christians were JW BUT you couldn't tell us why Watchtower or Awake couldn't address them as one

TATIME:
I'm sorry Sir/Ma if my comments got you enraged. There is freedom of expression today

You guys always go off topic just to cajole reader's mind away from the main topic.

You haven't provided tangible answers to my questions

so Jesus' instruction to US is to go and meet people in their homes

So where does the instruction to witness for Jehovah come from, if it's Jesus that actually gave you the instruction?

if we notice that some people are doing things wrongly,at least to correct those who will listen. So i'll advise you to contact my brothers or sisters in your neighborhood for scriptural principles and more explanations regarding the topic. Thanks and God bless you!

Until your brothers and sisters in my neighborhood came before you can clarify issue about your organization scriptural manipulation.

After you accused the old people of following Pagan by allowed to be called 'Christians'

My questions are still remain:
1. Where does anybody/group of people address in the Old Testament as Jehovah witness because your organization claimed that the NAME Jehovah witness has been around since over 2,700years ago?

2. Why does your publications "watchtower and awake" always refer to the old saints as EARLY CHRISTIANS and not EARLY JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES? Despite the fact that your organization said the name has been around over 2,700 years ago.

In absent of a proof from you, you made another claim that you people ADOPTED the name after Jesus instructed you.

Which beg for another question;
Why would Jesus later instruct you but allowed His own disciples to die as a Christian INCLUDING your founder Charles Taze Russell?

Yet you wrapped your head in delusions telling me to contact JW neighbor that possess the same delusions as yours.

I even challenged you to list just one verse where people were called Jehovah witness that I will list more than five where people witness to Jesus.

Correctgist:
A CCTV footage has shown the shocking moment some unknown gunmen attacked a young man at an ATM point, robbed, killed him and took away his car in Lagos.

user has shared some screenshots captured from a CCTV camera which showed faces of a Taxi driver who was recently robbed and killed by gunmen at an ATM point in the Obalende area of Lagos, as the killers took away his car.

The page shared the screenshots and wrote: "Faces of Uber & Taxify Driver killers in Lagos. They kill the driver then take the car away.

This is one of there victim incident happened Wed. 05-09-2018.

This is to inform the general public that A car (Toyota Corolla 2006) GGE 740 ER. was robbed at Obalenlede gun point.

Kindly inform the nearest police station if found please or call 08181261679, 08023894797 07065337557, 08037404994."

See more photos below;

https://zenithnaija.com/moment-a-man-was-robbed-killed-by-gunmen-at-atm-in-lagos-cctv-photos/

That's why the best option for security is Decentralized Intelligent Security System

Check my signature for more info

It's just so ridiculous the way you people attempt question without adequate knowledge.

TATIME:
All faithful servants of God right from Abel till today are Jehovah's witnesses. Hebrews 11:4-40,12:1

You're still lying like your organization
show me from that Hebrew where the Word Jehovah's witness appeared?

Jesus also acknowledge that He is a WITNESS. Revelations 1:5

What the Bible says here is "...FROM Jesus Christ, 'THE faithful witness'..." NWT

Notice the article "THE" Jesus Himself is THE ONE WE A WITNESS TO

So Jesus said to Christians "you will be my witnesses"{Act 1:8} to distinguish between fake Jewish worshipers also claiming to be Witnesses of Jehovah and real Witnesses of the day that God has given divine approval (Christians) since Jesus the way, truth and life is with them, whereas those arrogant Jews condemned God's son.

See where you shot yourself in the legs...
Jesus says we should be His witness because of the arrogant Jews who are claiming to be JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES. But your governing body says No! let's follow the arrogant Jews and forget about Jesus Christ.

Today we have adopted our former divinely inspired name

You're not supposed to ADOPT the name if it's already ESTABLISHED IN THE BIBLE. So for you to adopt it, it means it's never a Biblical name which is the reason no one has ever been called a Jehovah's witness in the Bible.

so that honesthearted persons could distinguish between true worshippers and thousands of misrepresentations all claiming "Christians".

Yet your publications can still refer to the people of old as EARLY CHRISTIANS.

Isn't it evident that your publications are promoting fake worshippers?

You people can go to any length just to drag the word of God down.

Jesus asked US to separate ourselves with the group name "Christians" in the first century

Kindly give us the verse where this can be found.

and today He has ordered US to return to that former name as all forms of pagans are becoming comfortable with the old group name "Christians" which was a ridiculous name in the first century.

So Jesus allowed even His disciples to be called a pagan name "Christians" till they died and later secretly told Rutherford in 1931

Don't forget Russell also died as a Christian!

We're no part of the world so our group name must always single US out from FAKE religions!

Then, this is for a personal thing but why did your organization lie that old people are Jehovah witnesses?

Then you should know that you're not following the commandment of our Lord Jesus Christ who says "You shall be MY witness..."

Those leading US are seeing Him and following Him ANYWHERE He goes! Revelations 14:4 that's why we can't remain bearing the same group name with other religions. Thanks and God bless you!

You mean your GB are seeing Jesus!

After all your jamboree you still couldn't answer my questions

Give me a verse where a person/group of people are called Jehovah witness...
But I can give you more than 5 verse where God, Holy Spirit, THE Prophets and Jesus disciples are CALLED Jesus witnesses!

AmaSophy:
I have asked before and no-one gave a good response.

Please is it advisable to use a bank statement of a US resident as my sponsor?

US bank statement I mean. I need to be certain on what to do. Please help me ooo. I need meaningful contributions please void of complications.

Thank You!!!!!!

I think using a US base SOA is even better

That's what I use too

OneJ:
1) Men of faith knew they were Jehovah's servants (witnesses for Jehovah), but didnt formally referred to themselves as Jehovah's witnesses. Dan 12:4,8-10.>Through the holy spirit, that insight & understanding came to Jesus followers .
"Simon described how God was "taken from the Gentiles a people for himself" Acts 15:14, Paul called these "men of faith " a cloud of witnesses" for Jehovah whom we should copy from. Hebrew 11:1-39. 12:1-3.

So what make them not to be FORMALLY REFER TO THEMSELVES AS JEHOVAH WITNESS?

Why then your organization lied that over 2700 years ago people have been using the name Jehovah witness?

Show me any where in the scripture where people are addressed as Jehovah witness.

God will deliver you sha, see how you linked Acts 15:14 with Hebrew

Anyways, why does your organization dim it fit to be addressed as Jehovah witness when the MEN OF FAITH couldn't do so?

2) Simply because the first followers of Christ were referred as 'followers of the Way ' ,these were witnesses too) Acts 22:4,19,20..
In the same vein,nothing changes the fact that Christ witnessed for Jehovah but he didn't adopt the name "Jehovah's. Witnesses" like we , JWs did in the 1930s.
Rev 3:14, John 4:34.

Your scripture reference has no correlation with what you said and even my question.

Whether Christ witnesses for Jehovah isn't an issue (emphasis) the point is why did Watchtower and Awake ALWAYS called these people EARLY CHRISTIANS and not EARLY JEHOVAH WITNESS?

Christ couldn't adopt the name despite the fact that He witnessed to Jehovah [b]but you people now has the authority from the same Christ to ADOPT the name....that's wonderful!

It's already established from the OP that your organization made a claim that was never found in the Bible.

The true body of Christ all bear witness to the rising Lord Jesus but a particular group decided to isolate themselves by given themselves a name known as 'Jehovah Witness'

If you ask any of their members, why bearing witness to Jehovah and not Jesus Christ?

Their quick respond will be God says in Isa 43:10 that "you're my witness says Jehovah..." just as they explained it here under the topic: why are we called Jehovah witness?
Many people think that Jehovah’s Witnesses is the name of a new religion. However, over 2,700 years ago, the servants of the only true God were described as his “witnesses.” ( Isaiah 43:10-12 ) Until 1931, we were known as Bible Students. Why did we adopt the name Jehovah’s Witnesses? https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/jehovahs-will/why-called-jehovahs-witnesses/

Notice that it was said here that "...Over 2,700 years ago, the SERVANTS of the only true God we're described as his "WITNESSES"

Which means, the NAME Jehovah witness didn't start from them but originated from Bible.
NOTE: Originated here means they're not the first people to be called Jehovah witness but every Biblical Characters are all Jehovah witnesses. You can read that from the link!

Now, when reading Watchtower magazine and Awake publication of Jehovah witness. Whenever, there's a reference to old people especially the disciples of Jesus Christ and people who walked with the disciples. Their publications ALWAYS refer to them as 'EARLY CHRISTIANS'

My questions are:
1. If people are actually known in the Bible over 2,700 years ago as witnesses, why can't we find exert name as Jehovah witness directly applied to a person/group of people in the Bible?

2. Why does Watchtower and Awake always refer to the early people as 'EARLY CHRISTIANS' and not EARLY JEHOVAH WITNESS?

Flaame:
Peterudeagha@gmail.com...Inbox

Someone ask you question here and you said I should inbox you...what if you're the one who opened this thread from part 1

Flaame:
Please can you be a bit more specific let me know what am doing.

Like applying for a graduate program without those exam or better put help us with the list of programs you know that don't demand for those exam.

Flaame:
Yes...but what degree do u want?

can you list them? Both graduated and undergraduate!

seunmsg:
I

There is nothing in the video clip to suggest that the 57 council chairmen in Lagos have endorsed Jide Sanwoolu. A political supporter of the aspirant who is a well known party leader in Lagos spoke all through in Yoruba without saying anything about endorsement from local council chairmen. Your headline is outright falsehood and a figment of your imagination.

But you can see the picture of when Sanwoolu purchased his form with those surrounded him and the same people in that video....

gurunlocker:
I'm sure they will recover the stolen vehicle soon..... This is a customized vehicle, the thieve is dunce.

If it took a thief less than 25sec to steal a car, calculate how many minutes it will take the thief to dismantle the car?

GboyegaD:
No you cannot. Myself and many others got our 1st Visa on virgin passport.

waooo thanks for this encouragement

OneJ:
alBHAGDADI, For instance, U have an STD /venereal infection as a result of fornication, would that infection be in your blood stream? Yes or no .

Then will you contact this true se.x also?

OneJ:
Clever sophistry.

Did Jesus apostles & disciples ever consumed his blood?

I know small small you'll begin to deny the scripture just to continue to wallow in your delusions.

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. John 6:53-57

Jesus statement here is far realistic than that of David but you people uphold David own above Jesus Christ. Did I surprise? Absolutely Not! because I know you people don't have real Jesus.

Jesus went further to proof this by raising a cup and says "...this cup is the new testament IN MY BLOOD,..."

Not only did the apostles drink it but continue the practice as instructed by Jesus.

I said it you people must find a way to exclude Jesus from this.

in the context of Acts 15:20,29, U already know the meaning of "abstain".

when U eat strangled meat, have U abstained from blood? When U do blood oath, have U abstained from blood? When U fornicate,have U abstained from blood?

[b[In all these instances stated above, blood from another source enters your blood stream.[/b]

That is what your Bible condemns.


Blood transfusions is "the transfer of blood or blood products from one person (donor) into another person's blood stream (recipient)"
Source: medicine.net.

when U do blood transfusions , have U abstained from blood?
Shalom

You have shot yourself in the leg @bolden & @color

I asked your colleague the other time whether when he disvirgin his wife he Abstain from blood or not.

Now, you've confirmed it that through FORNICATION blood is transferred.

and I remembered Albahgbadi said it that through sexual intercorse blood is transferred but you people denied it.

You can see how you later agreed with it.

I'll now put the question back, if you have intercorse with your wife, have you abstained from blood?

Barristter07:
That of David is a principle, Jesus was establishing a Covenant .

I known you will twist it but I won't allow that.

Do you drink the blood of Jesus as a covenant practice or the covenant stopped after Jesus established it?

Let's see whether the holy communion you've been partaking with JWs all these while are in vain.

I know if possible for you people you can tell us that the verse doesn't include Jesus blood.

Someone already explains that abstain has nothing to do with touch , the Early Christians recognize that the priest at the temple comes in contact with blood in the discharge of their duty.


Humans bleed when injured and preserving the wound's would require contact with blood ( See the story of the Good Samaritan Luke 10:34)

Your reasoning is flawed , it deals with consumption . and earlier it has been established that this includes both man and animals blood .

The person explained nothing.
The verse says ABSTAIN never specified whether to touch or inject, you're the one who differentiate it.

Abstain also mean avoid contact.... just proof me wrong on that first.

OneJ:
Leviticus 17:14
" You must not eat the blood of any creature". Emusan, are U a creature? Is man a creature?
Yes or no.

When some one sick is unable to feed, through the mouth, how are they fed ? They are given intravenous fluid ( also called a drip).

(Source: wikipedia)
The drip is given with a "needle insertion directly into the vein and the substance is directly delivered into the blood stream"


(https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/blood-transfusions/about/pac-20385168)

What is blood transfusion?
When "an intravenous ( IV) line with a needle is inserted into one of your blood vessels (your vein). The donated blood that's been stored in a bag enters your blood stream through the IV line".

"intravenous therapy maybe used for fluid replacement (such as correcting dehydration),
....and for blood transfusions"
(Source: wikipedia).

Intravenous fluid intake pass from the needle through the vein and into the blood stream in the same manner that blood transfusions moves from the needle into the vein and direct to the blood stream.

Is intravenous fluid intake feeding? Yes.
Is blood transfusions feeding ? Yes.

"Abstain from blood" is in other words, do not take the blood (or eat the blood ) of any creature ( into your body).


See as all of una dey lie, lie & deceive yourselves.

Just as @Hairyrapunzel has rightly said, you didn't quote the verse from previous verses which is a normal way of JWs including their GB.

Are you an animal?

Because everyone can see that the verse is talking about eating of ANIMALS with cold blood.

It's so funny seeing you said blood transfusion is also feeding of blood...when will you be cured of this self delusions?

Now you can only limit ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD just to don't take the blood of ANY creature into your body when the Bible actually specified the CREATURES.

God will forgive you for the way you do twist the scripture.

Isn't abstain from blood also mean don't TOUCH or GET in contact which ANY Blood?

Besides, are you not drinking the blood of Jesus through communion?

Peacefullove:
Flesh = house

Spirit/Soul = Real person

I clarified that it's the house that died, NOT JESUS HIMSELF, Agree ?



Since that spirit is the real person ( Jesus ) , It means Jesus never died .agree ?

So what is the name of the house that died?

Yet your ignorance of what those people mean is very glaring.

You just want to be spoon feed like a little kid.

Your BODY is your PHYSICAL PERSON why your spirit is the SPIRITUAL person.

What is so difficult for you to grab in this? when we're not dealing with nursery school students.

I did this just to end my discussion with you because I know this won't satisfy you.

Peacefullove:
So it's no longer Christ but the animals that have been slained from.the FOUNDATION of the world.

But this was not your earlier position: , you quote that portion to justify the statement below and escape .



Since We now established Christ wasn't offered as sacrifice until he came to the world , Is the Blood of goats and sheep Enough to grant old testament saint " The way " to heaven ?

Just like I said early, you always look for what didn't lost yet claiming to wise.

Christ has been slain since the foundation of the world...
This can be perfectly described as ALL SACRIFICES are modeled or pointed towards the reality of the real sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

What do I mean by this?
An old engineer designed a structure this includes the paper work, computer module, and Cardboard modeling.
Here this old engineer has already picture the finishing physical structure even though structure isn't erected.

Without erecting this structure, this engineer only in anticipation and hoping towards the day this structure will become reality.

NOTE: The materials used by this engineer are of different types but the ACTUAL materials needed for the structure is already in the mind of this engineer.

Now the question:
1. Does this engineer design different from the actual structure even it the structure takes thousands of years before finally erected? No!
2. Does this engineer design work negate the reality of the structure? No!
3. Does this engineer design work pointing towards the actualization of the finishing structure? Yes!

In conclusion:
1. Christ has been slain from the foundation of the world.
2. This means people now have something to picture/model their salvation after.
3. The main point is "without shedding of blood there is no remission" so animals (like the engineer who uses other materials for his design) blood were used by people of old not that animals blood can take away sin but just a pointer to the real sacrificial blood of Christ.
4. The shedding of animals blood by these people only make them to have hope on the finishing one done by Christ Jesus.

Then you can now appreciate it when the Bible says "For by single offering he has brought to the GOAL FOR ALL TIME those who are being set apart for God and made holy." Heb 10:14 JB

Some versions use "MADE PERFECT" this means it's until Christ finally died (completing the finishing structure) that the works of those Old people were perfected.

That's why the Bible says "In burnt offerings and sacrifices for SIN thou hast had no pleasure"

Short answer:
They did animal sacrifices in anticipation of the actual one Christ will come to do not that by killing animals was actually their way of salvation.

Peacefullove:
No Sir, am not saying it must be different . In fact am sure you have gotten my point, I don't know why you are pretending not to.

The same people that say man is body, soul and spirit ALSo say and " Man is a Spirit, housed in a body "

From that we can deduce two things.

- Man himself is a spirit.

- Body is just a house NOT the man.

So am asking if Man is a spirit , How could Jesus person die ?

Note: Body or flesh is just a house or structure for the real person .

So if body is just the house, why then you still agreed that someone died?

The truth is you know perfectly what it means by "body is where the spirit resides" but still trying to find what didn't miss.

Peacefullove:
Calm down , u still don't get it.

Is the Flesh the real person or ordinary structure that house the real. Person ?

I don't or you don't

If not the FLESH will you have known anybody called Yeshua?

People do say, man is body, soul and spirit yet you agree that man can die but in case of Jesus it must be different.

Peacefullove:
You said The Lamb Christ HAD been slain before the founding of the world. ( A Past. Event)

Then when he came to the world as human, Yeshua was Slained AGAIN ( second time )

Can you decode now ?

SMH and you'll be claiming you're among the intellectual one.

Slain from the foundation of the world means those Animal sacrifices are just the Antitype of Tue reality of the human Christ.

If you can't decode this....sorry I can't help you further.

Either Paul lied that Christ was offered once or you are the one telling lies.

When you lack the ability to comprehend it, how will you not confuse?

Make me understand, Does it mean Sheep and Goats blood were enough to grant them heaven without Jesus ?

You can't understand because you're not here to learn. So no amount of my word that can change what you already conceived but for better understand go and read the book of Hebrew from beginning to the end. So anyhow you understand it live with it.

Peacefullove:
1. Based on the bolded, Can we admit Jesus never really die for anyone ?

If not because of your ITK someone said the BODY DIED but you still went ahead to ask "Christ never died for anoyone"

What of the FLESH that died

2. How come the old testament saints make heaven without Jesus ? Or didn't Moses, Abraham and others make heaven without him ?

Expecting your response

You read my previous post

Peacefullove:
So Paul Lied that Christ was offered ONCE?

Then where did you read it that Christ was offered twice

I too know man!

Until the Reality is demonstrated, Does it mean the blood of goat and sheep's still gave salvation to old testament saints ?


My other question is still pending .

Only if you understand what you quote in the first place.

Barristter07:
Since you can't refute that , you went back to your traditional error.

Leviticus 17:11 blood of ANY creature . your thoughts are not according to the scripture .

Even David won't agree with you



You admit this


" David likened the water to the blood of the men that risked their lives to fetch it for him"
- AlBHAGDADI

He treated the water as he would treat Blood. Poured it out!!!



Your reasoning is weak. Which blood is exchanged during Sex ?


Just admit your defence is weak.. You are going against the bible by intravenously receiving blood Just like a gullible person who thinks he abstain from fornication because he does it through Anal.

So funny of you guys.

You agreed that David linked the water to his men blood proof a point but Jesus linked His own blood to wine isn't real.

Between if I disvirgin my wife did I abstain from blood?

Maybe you use another thing to disvirgin your wife or she's not a virgin...

Abdulgaffar22:
Get me clear very well. This is my point of argument; If Jesus crucifixion(J/C) is THE ONLY WAY to salvation for both the Old and the New Testament believers, then J/C must definitely had effect on the Old Testament believers like Abraham, Moses, Isaac and the likes.

You're just shouting up and down on what you don't know! Seek knowledge you refuse yet using Quran glass to interpret Bible.

Christ crucifixion is an antitypes of Animal sacrifices in the Old Testament, the Bible says the Lamb which represents Christ had been SLAIN from the foundation of the world. That's why there's what we called BIBLICAL CONSUMMATION! meaning how Christ basically fulfilled some Old Testament practices in His life and teachings.

But there is no way for the J/C to have any effect on them while they were on the surface of the earth because they have lived and died BEFORE the J/C. Therefore, the only thing left for the J/C to act upon is their souls.

Christ has been active on earth before He was born in Bethlehem. Christ's coming into the world is to demonstrate the reality of Old Testament practice.

If a road engineer designed a road on paper, can this engineer direct someone through the path of this road even if the road isn't physically constructed on ground? Yes he can!

I know you might understand this illustration.

31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”
You can see that even AT THE TIME OF MOSES( verse 29- 31), the SEPERATION of the righteous from the wicked by a GREAT GULF has taken place. Lazarus is in the bossom of Abraham receiving a certain form of "COMFORT"( verse 25) while the rich man is being TORMENTED in a flame(verse 24) We can see that Lazarus has attained a certain state of salvation. It is just a matter of time that remained for him to enter the paradise on the day of general resurrection. But the rich man has received the condemnation by being tormented in the flame of fire. All this is happening BEFORE the alleged Jesus crucifixion. Have you now agreed that Jesus crucifixion has contributed NOTHING to the COMFORT OF SALVATION received by Lazarus and all other righteous Old testament believers. Therefore Jesus crucifixion is NOT the only way to salvation. If this is true, then there is alternative way to salvation. And if there is alternative way to salvation, then God must have answered Jesus prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane when he asked for the cup of crucifixion to be taken away from him in three different consecutive times (Matthew 26:36-44). Therefore, Jesus must have escaped the crucifixion as confirmed by the Qur'an.
But if you want to argue further that despite the COMFORT OF SALVATION that Lazarus received in the bossom of Abraham, there is still need for Jesus crucifixion to make him and all other Old Testament believers to MOVE from "THIS STATE OF COMFORT" to "ANOTHER STATE OF COMFORT" in paradise, then it is now left for you to BRING A BIBLICAL EVIDENCE to support your stand.
I have seen your question. I will definitely answer you. But let us through with this issue of Jesus crucifixion. Thanks.

Firstly, it's just so unfortunate that out of ignorance you keep turning Bible down just to propagate your fake Islam.

secondly, Jesus didn't allude to an event that is taking place in real time event but as a STORY to drive a point.

Thirdly, so unfortunate that the point Christ was driving was totally neglected by you but went ahead to distort the Holy Bible.

Lastly, I purposely bolden the part you neglected, just as you're still confusing about Christ crucifixion neither will you be persuaded by one rising from dead to a new life.

Abdulgaffar22:
"Sinful nature came when Adam disobeyed God". This is a FLAT CONTRADICTION. Think about your statement very well. How was he able to disobey God if he did not posses a sinful nature? Have you seen your contradiction?

It looks contradictory to you because you're still putting on the wrong glass.
Let me come down to your level at first I thought you have comprehension skill to grab my point without wasting much time.

1. Adam was created with a body that can't die which is uncorruptible
2. Adam nature don't know evil i.e can't lie, cheat, kill e.t.c
NOTE: These are sum up in what you called BLISSFUL LIFE which means had been Adam didn't disobeyed God earth will have been a Man's Paradise.

Now after Adam disobeyed God, the body can die and prone to kill, cheat and even do any evil.

The Adam's disobedient is what brought all these and if Adam didn't disobey God meaning ALL THESE wouldn't be found in his NATURE.

Adam did not created with sin(he was pure) but he was created with a "sinful nature"; Otherwise he would not be able to disobey God AT FIRST INSTANCE.
HAVE YOU NOW SEEN HOW THE MANSION OF YOUR ARGUMENT CRUMBLE RIGHTLY FROM FOUNDATION.

This is how you'll know that you're the very person whose argument crumbled and contradicted.

Even your Qur'an agreed that Iblis deceived some Angels were others are not deceived. Does it mean those angels that were deceived by iblis were created with a sinful nature and the one that weren't deceived have a nature that can't be corrupted?

All angels and Adam all have FREEWILL yet some Angels can rebel why some can't.

But for the sake of argument, let us assume that sinful nature of Adam came in after he disobeyed God. Now explain to us EXACTLY how the Jesus crucifixion manage to solve this "problem of our sinful nature".

Now Jesus Crucifixion solved the problem by demonstrating to us that AFTER resurrection we will die NO MORE! I know your Qur'an also promised this.

I know your understanding of this is, immediately Jesus was crucified the whole earth supposed to free from sin.

Mind you, this is just a summary of it time and space won't allow me to.

The consequence of the sin of Adam that make us to dwell on Earth is "Anger from God". This anger was subside after God has pardoned Adam. But it was already in the divine plan that we human being will spend a time in this life of hardship before we get back to paradise, a life of bliss.

Just see the way you're contradicting yourself, God got angry after he has already planned it by himself.

Besides, if God's anger was subsided after pardoned Adam and Adam has already repented, why pushing Adam and His descendants to experience hardship again?
Why subjecting a righteous person to hardship and evil world? Can you see the reason why your Qur'an failed?

Compare this to Holy Bible that said both righteous and evil doer are in this world because of the sin of Adam and have right to make their choice.

The wisdom behind all this is that it will help us to appreciate what God has done for us in paradise. If we have never tasted the life of hardship in this world, there is NO WAY WE CAN APPRECIATE the life of bliss in paradise.

No! one thing you failed to point out is DEATH if Adam didn't disobey God, will he have died in the Paradise? If Yes! That means people will still die in Allah Paradise...
If No! Then it means Adam wasn't created to die in the first place but something happened later.

You see you can't eat your cake and have it.
It's either you agreed that Adam disobedient is what that caused all this calamities on earth or you agree that Allah's Paradise will still full of death.

Am I not making sense? Pls also help enilove to do to his assignment up there . Thanks

Well you can make sense to yourself but an open-minded person following this conversation can see who is making the senses.

Boycotting questions and cherry picking the ones you find easy to reply is what you called making sense.

By the way, you didn't answer my question.
Why will Qur'an talk about resurrection, if not to restore man back to their original state?