₦airaland Forum

OneJ:
Pls tell our fellow Nairalanders & guests whether U are confused when U call a well known man "Area father or Godfather" ?. Therefore, your opening questions lack merit & substance.


Primesky said " Jesus is not God the father, so who is he" ? Even Emusan , his partner in the Trinity fallacy said & I quote his statement: " did anybody ever said Jesus is the Father before ?"
My fellow Nairalanders & guests, una dey see how primesky & his fellow trinity peddlers. are confused?
Indeed, their brain always shut down in their dubious attempts to defend a lie Jesus himself neither taught nor believed.

I know sometimes simple comprehension might be hard for you people.

What I mean by my statement is that Jesus is not THE PERSON (in Nature) of whom we know as the Father but He is Eternal Father (in role).

Nature is different from role

So, both the person of the Father and Jesus Christ are ETERNAL FATHER in role.

OneJ:
.. LIES ,LIES ,LIES !
Everybody pls see the proof below:

John10:33 "We are not stoning you for any of these,", replied the Jews,"but for blasphemy, because you ,a mere man ,claim to be God" . The wicked Jews made those false allegations against Jesus. U may ask "Why is it a false allegation?

Jesus himself provided the answers....
John10:34,-36. "Is it not written in your Law,
'I have said you are gods? ' "
(Jesus quoted Psalms 82:6).
John10:35: "If he called them 'gods' ,to whom the word of God came- and the Scripture cannot be broken
vs36 "what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said , I am God's son ?".

Jesus himself said he is the son of God but the Jews deceitfully twisted his statement &falsely alleged that Jesus committed blasphemy. Because they were desperate to kill Jesus at all costs.
Shalom.

So you mean Jesus denied being God in that verse right?

OneJ:
The Greek manuscript is in lowercase.
The Greek manuscript transliteration of John 1:1 word for word, Greek to English can be Sourced from "John 1:1 wikipedia".
The Apostle John in John 1:1 never said " the word is the god" (Almighty Father). That's the unpopular truth that Trinitarian folks can not admit.

Did anybody ever said Jesus is the Father before?

Jesus is God which means He has ALL the attributes man know God to possess. Get that into your skull!

Even Jesus' critics know Jesus is God that's why they could say "...and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God"

innocent99:
Good Morning Engineers. I am a young graduate of Civil Engineering, done with service but looking for placement to start up my career in Civil Engineering. Good at Orion and design and a lil bit at Auto Cad. Would love any form of help from u. Thanks

Go and add small survey knowledge and road design using AutoCAD Civil 3D....your market will sell!

[quote author=Maamin post=68869404]At the bolden, show me where I denied his deity? [/b]

So you believe Jesus is a deity, right?

Jesus is a Mighty God but not the Almighty God. Because Jesus also have an ALMIGHTY GOD ABOVE HIM.

Funny you...
It's like God is dragging position with Jesus! Because the Father Himself is also a mighty God. So, God has to make Jesus a Mighty God and made Himself Almighty God later.

How many God do you now have?

Besides, I can see you purposely ignored the part where Jesus was called EVERLASTING FATHER, so how many everlasting father do you have?

John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;"

Everything Jesus is, is given/made by his Father the Almighty God.

So His Father also made Him and ETERNAL Being yet ONLY God is ETERNAL. Continue...

Good, at least this is a head start for you..but You still haven't fix the holy spirit in your tri-unity. It looks like you are leaving him out.

The Holy Spirit was called ETERNAL SPIRIT in the Bible if you can't find it in your own Bible tell me, I'll show you.

Wunmifun:
Justin Martyr could live during that time,he can believe and defend any form of doctrine but that doesn't change the fact that the person speaking in Proverbs 8:22-34 was Jesus and that quoted scripture clearly said God created him period! Colossians 1:15,16 1Corinthians 15:27,28 I think the word FIRST BORN implies a beginning or birth

You people can go any length to deny and twist anything... smh!

So Justin is not reliable now because he preached and defended the deity of Jesus...

Polycarp and Papias are well known people who have direct contact and first hand information about Jesus Christ from the Apostles...

But here you people just want to twist history to suit you.

If you read that Proverb very well....then you can agree with me that the New Testament authors who said Jesus was the one created everything was wrong.

How?
In Proverb you sited, you'll read throughout as When he(God).... which means it was God who was carrying out the action yet NT made it clear that it was Jesus who did it.

"YOU THINK" that shows you're not sure of what you're saying.

Maamin:
Surely Jesus is divine, but he is not Yahweh or coequal to Yahweh his father in any triune relationship as taught by triniterians.

Here is Jesus claim of his divine precedence

John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father."

John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

Now what about the holy spirit?

Laughing hard.....
So, you agree Jesus Christ is divine but not YAHWEH, why is it divine then?

In case you don't know, DIVINITY simply means Deity! So agree Jesus is divine in one breath and deny His deity in another breath shows insincerity of you.

These are the verses that talked about Jesus deity in the scripture.

-He is a Mighty God and EVERLASTING Father...Isaiah 9
-He is ETERNAL life 1 Jn 1:2

These two verses alone are enough evidence that Jesus is God but not the Father because in human knowledge ONLY God is Everlasting and ETERNAL!

Maamin:
The Trinity doctrine is not supported by scriptures, it was never taught by Christ, his disciples or the early Christians.

Shalom aleikhem!

This is the lie that you people always peddle

Justin Martyr is one of the early Christian who died 165AD he defended Jesus Christ divinity always

tomakint:
You clearly misunderstood my position on this hotly debated topic, Maamin is one brother here you need to read his post. My position on Constanstine is not to hold anything against him, but to point to you folks that the Trinity Doctrine is not Biblical but Doctrines of Men evoked by Constanstine and some Bishops in order to debate about the "Divinity of Jesus Christ" while the issue of Trinity coming up was not anticipated. Understand the matter, Trinity is not Biblical!

Just imagine!

So you means Justin Martyr who supposed be a disciple of Apostle John is wrong for believing Jesus is eternal and not created?

That's why I have to go back in time to show you those who already uphold the divinity of Jesus Christ even before the council of Nicea happened.

So it's either you accept the account of those who closed to the real Apostles of Christ or reject it.

My point is this, before the council of Nicea majority of well known scholars whose their impact can't be written off in Christianity history hold the belief in Jesus and Holy Spirit Divinity as supported by many verses in the scripture. So the council of Nicea ONLY coined the word TRINITY to address the divinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Like I said, you can discard the word TRINITY if you don't like but the DIVINITY of Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit is well established in the scripture.

tomakint:
Your opinion on the Trinity doctrine based on my submission you quoted are in tandem so I ask again, do you think the Doctrine of Trinity as spread around through the Nicene Creed by Constantine the Great be preached in churches as we see it today?

Funny of you because even after you quoted what happened at the council of Nicea you couldn't grab your own point.

Which means you blindly quoted it for your selfish interest.

These are the points you missed from the quote of council of Nicea:

1. The council of Nicea actually proved that Jesus' nature has been the talk of the day where people have different views about.

2. Majority of those who voted for Trinity are actually reputable scholars who are followers of oldest scholars like Polycap, Justin Martyr e.t.c

Now the question is, why did the council of Nicea hold?
The meeting holds because people are truly confused about the nature of Christ i.e whether Jesus was created or not.

Now Justin martyr who died in 125AD (in fact many scholars believed that he was one of Apostle John's disciples) has always debate about Jesus as uncreated being. Now, where did he get his information from? if not from Apostle John himself who wrote his own account about Jesus Christ as "....and the word was God...without Him(Christ) NOTHING (including the angles and heaven) was made" Jn 1:1,3

So you see it's not about Constantine who you try to paint as evil but about chronological history being followed.

Note:
-Justin Martyr 165AD a disciple of Apostle John believed that Jesus is uncreated being.
-Irenaous 200AD believed Jesus is eternal
-Clement of Alexandria 215AD believed in the eternal word of God who is the Son of God.
-Tertullian 230AD claim the same thing
-Hippolytus 235AD uphold the same belief
-And the council of Nicea happened in 325AD

So the council of Nicea only coined the word TRINITY which is the evidence from the early Church as the pray to Jesus Christ 1 Corin 1:2, called ETERNAL life in 1Jn1:2

Lastly, if you don't like the word TRINITY you can stop using it since even after the word was coined out it never appeared in any Bible version but you can't stop Honouring Jesus the way you Honour the Father... Jn 5:23, called Him everlasting father as Isaiah prophesied and deny Him being in the FORM of God as Apostle Paul confirmed it.

Also, I read one of your post where you claim that no creature can be compared with God which is actually what the scripture says but you forgot to acknowledge that the same scripture says Jesus is the IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD and the same Jesus uphold ALL THINGS by the WORD of His power.

Likewise, the scripture says Holy Spirit is an eternal spirit I know you can't deny this but only deny his person.

Let me point out a misconception here!
People haven't grabbed the attribute of God Omni-science so well.

God knows what will happen tomorrow is different from God has designed what will happen tomorrow.

The latter means man is still like a ROBOT

How man will live his life from start to finish wasn't designed by God but God knows how man will run it from start to finish, God only created man with individual ability to live life from start to finish.

So the misconception arises when we substitute our inbuilt drive that makes us who we are for a Robotic view (destiny or predetermination)

I'll shield more light later

Predetermination though happened on exceptional cases if God wants to intervene

Josipov:
What softwares are ideal for road and bridge
I mean for both drawing and designing

For road you can use AutoCAD Civil 3D this gives you opportunity to geo-reference your drawing.

For bridge I go with Staad pro

Nissybright:
Have you tried CivilCAD?

I agree with @kokomaster3d AUTOCAD land desk is dope for road design.

Truly Orion is for beginners!

ARCHICAD is also good for 3D it even has a new feature called Eptar which is for reinforcement arrangement in 3D.

I love Etabs and Staad pro....

Op you didn't include Prokon it's very good too

NaijaTechnician:
Many arguments claming to prove the existence of God have been proposed throughout the centuries. The response to many of these arguments, however, is: "If God created the world, what created God?"

The question who created God? can only be asked by those who claimed to be more intelligent than religious people but can't reason well.

There are words that can't be applied to some certain things.

Look at the history of man and technology. During the stone age, no one can use the word TECHNOLOGY simply because what the word TECHNOLOGY can be applied to wasn't around.

Likewise, we human do use some terms which are results of our intellectual i.e PRODUCE or MANUFACTURE and these words can't be directly applied to our origin.

You don't say, since almost everything man does is either produced or manufactured then who PRODUCED or MANUFACTURE man?

My humble submission is this, before God created the universe the word "CREATE" wasn't around since the realm God exists is eternity.

God created the universe doesn't necessarily mean the word CREATE should be applied to Him.

So the best question to ask is; if God created everything, how does God came to be? And I doubt anyone can give you a direct answer because we only found ourselves in the consciousness of God's work.

it just like if AI should develop consciousness and you ask them about human origin.

Mac2016:
That's not a bridge..It's a culvert. And that terrain actually deserves an "accommodating" bridge!!!

You're right by saying it's a culvelt but the gully isn't deep enough for bridge.

The best is to make the culvelt double cells and not less than 2 x 2m Box.

melody91:
yes ..and I have questions for you as well..how long have you been on nairaland? do you know it wasn't that way right from time? and finally what led to it's creation?

I have to join this thread because of this your comment not about the OP.

Firstly, I noticed that you're just a year older on Nairaland yet you refused to agree with those posts put forth by @butterflyleo which is too bad for a seeker of truth.

Secondly, I've been around since 2012 after being a guest for months when there was no oath on Islamic section and I do have a good discussion with many Muslim friends then.

Thirdly, you asked "do you know it wasn't that way right from time? and finally what led to it's creation?"

Yes, you're right! Seun himself has cleared air about this shortly after the oath was put on Islam section (just that I can't do search to get the thread).

It was as a result of life threatening! I could remember vividly then that this made some people left religion section even Nairaland till date.

Lastly, What was the creation?
During normal religion section everybody bashes each other Christians, Atheists, Muslims & Pagans (though this is not about individual but I just used affiliated names). The problem started, when some Muslims begin to complain about how their religion is being abused whereas they also do bash other religions.

Seun gave them a separate section but the funny part of it is that in their own section, they are still creating thread related to Jesus or using science to proof Islam which then forced Christian to go to their section and defend their faith likewise Atheists to proof their scientific argument wrong about Islam.

Moreover, having separate section doesn't prevent some Muslims to come to religion section to air their opinion which sometimes leads to heated argument.

Yet, this doesn't rest well with some Muslims who still think their religion is being bashed and abused. It then leads to various ban by their mod as well as oath sanction.

Even after the oath, some people in Islam section will still create different topic about Christianity which leads some Christians to create another account and use it to accept the oath so that they can comment on their thread. This also applies to Atheists!

Udasto knows this truth but I wonder why he gave an account that Muslims as the only victim of it.

My point is this, everyone in religion section do bash themselves irrespective of argument that rose up BUT only Muslims personalised it to mean ISLAM ONLY.

highness25:
Like if you think Nigeria will qualify, share if you think we (Nigeria) can't make it

Nigeria will qualify not as runner up but as top in the table. Nigeria will win Iceland and Argentina while Argentina will draw Corotia!

Mark it down

And the Gospel light will continue to shine! Hallelujah!

All what you wrote would have been meaningful and true, had it been the Creator hasn't revealed Himself to people.

If people of old have actually imagined it the way you portrayed it then our generation can't confirm it.

OneJ:
@Emusan,psalms 83:18 reads "that men may know that thou whose name is JEHOVAH' art the Most High over all the earth".
Emusan, i have one question for U: na JWs write that verse for Bible?
Twist Psalms 83:18 as it pleases U.
Your sentimental rants can't change God's word. "
Jehovah is the name of the Most High God.

You're not too smart, anyway I know you people lack simple comprehension or deliberately twisting the truth.

Both the Op and I never said God's name never appeared in the Bible (get that into your skull) but wrong pronunciation and formulation which YOUR ORGANIZATION KNOWS ABOUT but still WENT AHEAD TO PROMOTE

like I asked in my previous thread that dealt with a topic like this, will the Catholic monk who formulated the Latin name be part of the Little flocks or not?

Riofidelio:
The ñame "Jesús" that's now accepted globally is not the ORIGINAL pronunciation of the name of God's son,yet in every nation the name has been agreed upon (though pronounced differently due to language barriers) Jehovah's witnesses accepted the divine name just as everybody accepted the transliterated "Jesus" since the Bible made it clear that God has a unique name that HIMSELF and HIS only begotten son holds so dear(Exodus 6:3,Psalm 83:18,John 17:26)so please let's go and meditate on that! God bless you.

I have dealt with this in the past on this forum, see it here!

https://www.nairaland.com/2242343/two-things-need-know-jehovahs

The funny part of it is that you people will continue to twist the truth just to hold on to lies.

malificent:
The rate of road accidents these days have suddenly multipled three-fold. Lord please protect your people from blood thirsty demons.

May the departed Rest in Peace.

It's not only in Nigeria, it's a global thing!

That's why the UN is taking an urgent step to tackle road crashes because the forecast is that by 2020 road crashes record will reach 1.9m per ann currently it's 1.3m

Right now road crashes kill more than deadly disease

GEJfan1:
Interesting... So the name Jehovah was even derived by a Spanish

JW themselves admitted that the rendering of YHWH isn't supposed to be Jehovah but they go with the pronunciation of Jehovah simply because "MANY PEOPLE are already FAMILIAR with the name Jehovah"

Take a closer look at @bolden:
>This is the same organization that always claim to correct God's name and Hallow It YET can go with what we can call wrong rendering of God's name.
>This is the same organization that always claim that people have changed the name of God YET admitted that the same people are already FAMILIAR with it.

BlissB:
Hahaha.....are you sure?

Very very MA!

BlissB:
She get toolz datz y she day flaunt am....people like me wen flat for back and front nor try am

I like it the way you are!

Temtee11223344:
President Muhammadu Buhari has tendered the nation's apology to the family of the late Chief Moshood Abiola, the winner of the June 12, 1993 election.

Buhari gave this apology while delivering his speech at the conferment of national honours on the late Chief Moshood Kashimawo Abiola and other key players of the 1993 elections.

An emotional Buhari also called on all dignitaries present at the conferment ceremony to stand and give a minute silence to all those who lost their lives for the June 12 struggle.

Read More Below

http://www.nigeriannewsweb.com/breaking-on-behalf-of-nigeria-i-apologize-to-mko-abiola-buhari/

I'm still not understand the whole fuss about this annulment drama if the person who perpetrated the act won't be brought to book.

Flintstone06:
Interesting how Tofa won some core south eastern states and Abiola also won some core northern states.

We are definitely more divided now as a country than ever before.

Nothing interesting here!

The same Abiola won ALL the SW states while Tofa never won one, is that not a great division?

I can see you emotionally outburst written all over your comment but I just want to enlighten you not argue with you.

Olifiz:
You are the one who needs to do research. Look for their bible open any verse and check if it’s the same with urs. Their bible is translated to resent English u and I use instead of all those “thy, thee, forseketh etc”.

Where did I say their Bible didn't translate into English?

My point about their Bible is WHO ARE THE NOTABLE SCHOLARS that involved in the translation of their Bible?

I think u don’t know how Dey got that name “Jehovahs Witness” go n do research pls. It’s in Isaiah 43:10-12 pls read it. I know ur bible will write God or Jehovah Dey are the same so u see “witnesses of God or Jehovah"

Here we go, I know the Bible says in Isaiah 43:10-12 that "YOU ARE my witness..." but the best question a seeker of truth will ask is who are these YOU the Bible is referring to here?
Also, go to Old Testament you can see many references to God promising to do something but New Testament revealed Jesus to be the actual person doing those things.
If God says you are my witness in the OLD TESTAMENT and the New Testament points to Jesus Christ as the one we all need to witness to, even Jesus Himself said we should be His witnesses. Who are you to decide for God?

They don’t cherry pick anything. Maybe the witness arguing wasn’t sound enough.

He is an elderly person, I know something like this will come...mind you I have had many discussion with both young and elderly people of JW and my question always render them speechless, only to find one excuse to discharge themselves.

In fact they don’t only use their bible. Go n research read thru their magazines especially awake they do quote from KJV et al. If u want to know more about them instead of sticking to what u hear people say out of sentiments visit their site JW.org n see first hand for urself. This post is not to convince u but to make u stop making wrong assertions basically from sentiments n from baised mind.

If your claim is true, why then they don't go with the KJV translation of John 1:1 as "...and the word was God" but they only go with their own Bible as "...and the word was a god"
isn't that a double standard?

They are one of the peaceful people I have ever known on earth, they don’t engage in fights, politics, riots, protests killings, or as seen in some sects do pray for soldiers to go to war to kill their fellow man and from my experience they are one of the most trusted people u can ever relate with, they are well behaved. By their fruits u shall know them

Thank God you didn't say THEY ARE the only peaceful people on earth but THEY ARE ONE OF which means other peaceful people still exist and even among Muslims, Atheist, Hinduism and Buddhism there are peaceful people.

I really don’t like to compare. But we have seen ur so called God of Men meddling in politics, mostly all about money rather then about God (pastorpreneurs), rituals, etc. they mostly preach about prosperity, how to be rich rather than how to attain salvation.

I have heard stories where people assault them when they preach n never retaliate or beat grudges they still even show hospitality to that person etc. I know it will be hard for u to accept these simple truth for ur mind might have been blinded to agree to certain truths but it’s okay. Stay blessed.

If the way SOME people used God's name to dupe people is what is affecting you, sorry you can carry your frustration to another place.

God will judge individual according their deed

Olifiz:
I believe everything they practice are admonition or commandments stated in the Bible. If it’s not written or commanded in the Bible JW’s no Dey do am o.

No you're wrong!
Firstly, they don't follow everything stated in the Bible rather they designed their own Bible to follow!
For instance;
>The Father Himself is a witness to His Son
>The Holy Spirit is a witness to the Son
>The early Apostles are all witness to Jesus Himself.
>Jesus Himself said after receiving the Holy Spirit they will be witness UNTO HIM not to anyone! but they claim they are Jehovah witness. Then asked them is Jesus Jehovah they are witnessing for they'll say NO!

Secondly, they cherry-picked any Bible that suit them without considering the context of the passage NOT JUST ONE VERSE!
For instance, a discussion arose BTW my colleague, me and JW fellow. actually, the discussion wasn't about God, Bible, JW nor argument. I remember my colleague just said, "he believes the world will soon end" The next thing the JW man will do is quoting a verse Eccl 1:4 and that my colleague just asked him simple question "Sir, can you continue to read further?" The man couldn't say a word.

something like that happened not up to five minutes the man repeated the same verse and my colleague asked the same question yet this man couldn't answer and ended the discussion!

NOTE my colleague didn't know that the man is a JW but I know the man and reason why he couldn't answer that simple question. This thing happened three days ago.

If you want to know the truth you go out and do research so that you'll be able to select.

Different people of different colors and background have translated original Bible into English language and other languages, why will JW discard 100's of other translations and solely relied on the one their own unqualified scholars translated?

FriendNG:
He cannot be added. He hasn't take the oath of office and oath of allegiance.

So why did President Buhari honor him with GCFR?
Can someone who hasn't taken oath of office and oath of allegiance be called GCFR?

Me just asked no fuzz