₦airaland Forum

One possible explanation. My laser printer prints both photocopies and prints (all in one). So, If the roller in the printer is dirty you would have those marks on a print or photocopy.

2nd possible explanation: The actual forms are photocopied and the personalized data is printed onto the photocopied forms after the fact.
In fact if you look at the 3rd picture you posted the "National Identification Number" line seems to run over some other printed text. That llends more credence to this possible explanation. It also makes it look fraudulent.

vibre:
And did I say it proved anything? I just called out you guys on your claim that the chants happened in only red republican states. All I pointed out was that New York is definitely not a republican state.

Honestly, it's pretty silly to use that as a metric for anything. I assume in Nigeria there are Still(given how bad the economy is) these things called plains, trains and cars, in which people use to travel to support their favored teams. So, most of those people are mostly likely Trump supporters or a VERY vocal minority.

vibre:
Stop beating about the bush and going off point, you claimed this is not the first time US are leaving weapons for terrorists and that's why I asked you to mention one other time it happened. Just admit you can mention any other time it happened and stop moving the goal posts.

1.) I didn't claim any such thing.
2.) I'm the wrong person to be arguing with... I actually know what I'm talking about. So you are overmatched here.
3.)Again, what was the US supposed to do? The US gave weapons to a nation state. The nation state lost the war.. The Taliban who beat the nation state took their weapons.
4.) And lastly about losing weapons
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/05/us-weapons-iraq-isis-tracking-lost-again/
The US Lost Track of a Billion Dollars Worth of Weapons in Iraq—Again
“The bottom line is that the US military does not have a means to track equipment that has been taken from the government of Iraq by” ISIS.

It's honestly quite sad that you are being brainwashed by whatever propaganda sources you've chosen to get your information from. You aren't engaged in a serious debate or even trying to understand fully the things you are hearing (I would say reading but it sounds like much of this comes form videos somewhere). Do better.

vibre:
Mehn, make use of your internet and stop sounding like a brainwashed CNN zombie, the videos of the chants in New York is all over the net and it wasn't a few fans, in fact both sets of fans joined in the loud chants.

And what would that prove? Every state has proportion of Trump Supporters. And the demographics of who goes to baseball games and sits in the cheap seats (upper bleacher seats), tends towards Trump Supporters. So, because you have a video of a very vocal minority shouting something you want to claim it proves what? Engage your brain, man.

vibre:
Liar, New York is one of the deepest of blue democrat states. No republican has won there in decades and can you please mention one other time that the US ran away from a war zone and left weapons worth billions of dollars for a terrorist organization? I'll be waiting.

Why don't you think this through. The weapons the Taliban have are mostly the ones seized from the Afghan Army. How and when was the US supposed to get the weapons from the Iraq Army while they were still fighting the Taliban? Or did you think the US was supposed to booby trap them so when the Iraq Army fell, they should have all exploded before the Taliban took control of them?

Propaganda sounds good, but kinda collapses when you exercise you brain muscles right?

And here is the truth about what was left behind
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/sep/01/viral-image/claim-overstates-military-weapons-equipment-us-lef/

Kokobilo87:
Ya know Biden saw the collapse months before it happened, he called the Afghan government to act like everything isa fine when itsa not. That only means Biden was not concerned about tha situation, he did not have a plan.

No one saw the collapse months in advance. EVERYONE has TESTIFIED to that. The worst case our Intelligence agencies (the best in the world) saw the Afghan army collapsing after the US army left. Again NOONE saw it collapsing as soon as it did. If you have any proof to that claim, post it.

Now the Call. Biden called the Afghan President to basically tell him to REASSURE the troops. Basically no matter what is happening now the perception is that you are losing. You have to change that perception. If the soldiers don't believe they can win and it is inevitable the Taliban would take over why would they FIGHT just to be killed by the Taliban? It's the same reason he didn't pull out all the Afghans who wanted to leave. If everyone is fleeing because there is a universal believe that the Afghan government won't hold, you in fact hasten the end of that government. It's the same way he left US weapons' with the Afghan Military. If you take their weapons, they can't fight and the view is you don't believe they can win and you further hasten that collapse. You get? Honestly, take some time to think through these things. Act like you're a commander.. or even just playing chess. In this case even if you acted like you were playing checkers you would have probably had better reasoning.

GEEBITE:
You don't have to make your riposte to him to be ridden of invectives. Even if you had your points well marshalled it still did not justify that. The whole write up in a flowing prose eventually became a tirade.

I live in the US and we are currently battling this right wing propaganda/buffonary. It's like playing whack a mole except with life and death consequences. And somehow, someone in Nigeria is parroting the same nonsense perpetuating this propaganda supporting a Political party that HATES people who look like him lead by a Crazy person who marshals these same Xenophoic/Racist forces (Nigeria is a shithole country) in order to make money and stroke his ego while all collateral damage be dammed(Jan. 6). One wonders how a country like the US becomes Nigeria... Trump.

I don't have patience for him.. and thus the invectives are necessary.

Who pays you to post this propaganda? It's like you just vomitted out all the right wing talking points. Biden's approval is low right now but it's the same as Trump's during his whole presidency! Think about that, you're excoriating Biden for Trump's average approval rating. While saying somehow Trump was a better president because he had the same approval rating THROUGHOUT his presidency. The mental gymnastics your cognitive dissonant riddled brain must do.

And all this Afghanistan propaganda. There was a Senate and House hearing with SoS Blinken this week. You should find it and listen to it. You'll probably feel stupid posting this stuff afterwards.

Here is one especially galling one.

wallstreetnews:
When you look at Afghanistan, and I can go through 50 points on it, but $65 to $80 billion of equipment left to our enemies.

Here is the fact check.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/aug/20/viral-image/no-proof-biden-left-taliban-80b-weapons-or-he-want/

And even the weapons that were left behind were the ones given to the Afghan army. Now dust the cobwebs off that decrepit mind of yours and riddle me this. When should the US have gotten the weapons back form the Afghan army? Should we have taken them before we left when they were fighting the Taliban, or after we left when they would have needed them to keep fighting the Taliban? You see how stupid you sound when you just post stupid things from Facebook or Twitter or wherever else you get you propaganda?

Lastly, it came out this week that Trump after losing the election and after firing his current Sec. of Defense (after the election) secretly had some sycophant's draft an order to remove all Troops from Afghanistan by Jan. 15th so he could take credit for ending the war. Miley his Chairman of the Joint Chiefs found out and was pissed 1.)the order went around the normal process about 2.) It was CRAZY to try that in less than 1 month. He went to Trump and got him to rescind that (imagine the clusterfuck it would have been if they tried to do it by Jan. 15). Milley was so concerned the President had mentally declined, Was CRAZY and may go ROGUE he 1.) brought together all the stakeholders (anyone who could launch weapons and told them to give him an oath that they would follow the normal process (The President can't declare war without a Congressional War Resolution)). He even went as far as to call his counterpart in China, who he speaks with regularly and tell them that we were not going to launch missiles (they had been concerned Trump would and were preparing for such). You think the Afghanistan pullout looked bad, imagine a war with China. And this lunatic is the man you are sitting half way around the world, wasting your data on. I see you want the US to know the same misery Buhari gives you in Nigeria.

Here is a source for Trump's Afghan pullout in Jan. If you don't like CNN put it in google and find your own source.
New Woodward/Costa book: Trump secret memo ordering withdrawal from Afghanistan blindsided national security
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/14/politics/woodward-costa-book-trump-afghanistan-memo/index.html
Woodward and Costa reproduced the memo in "Peril." The directive was titled, "Memorandum for the Acting Secretary of Defense: Withdrawal from Somalia and Afghanistan," and the memo read: "I hereby direct you to withdraw all US forces from the Federal Republic of Somalia no later than 31 December 2020 and from the Islamic Republican of Afghanistan no later than 15 January 2021. Inform all allied and partner forces of the directives. Please confirm receipt of this order."

joshjc:
I think president biden got the timing wrong,he should have done the evacuation before announcing the withdrawal

Nothing those troops could have done in this situation. They would probably need 100,000 More troops and those troops would just be more targets. No way they could hold a city like Kabul during an evacuation when all it takes is one suicide bomber who believes their cause is so great they will die for it.

Crowwejihadist:
See what this useless Biden has caused.
I will boldly repeat it again Joe Biden is very weak compared to Trump

Hey, where are you guys getting all this propoganda from? Is it Fox News?
Quick fact check. Trump signed an agreement with the Taliban, In exchange for leaving they would not attack the US troops but they could attack the Afghani army though (hence no violence against the US the last year). Also, In order to get them to the table, Trump agreed to release 5000 Taliban prisoners beforehand (who undoubtedly helped the Taliban take Aghanistan.) and agreed not to include the Afghan govt. in the negotiations. The current leader of the Taliban was also released by Trump. The agreement was so bad Trump's former National Security advisor called it a "Surrender Agreement".
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-taliban-peace-deal-us-withdrawal-b1907241.html

That agreement was the preface to what you see today. Sounds very strong right?

Meninmen:
4 times? Lol. Look at this overfed clown. Go back and read!

Check out the meaning of "Appalling" below. Do you know "Appalling" can also mean "Shocking"? Do you know it can also mean "Disappointing"?

Let's take a look at your definition; appalled adjective : affected by strong feelings of shock and dismay.

If your skull was not empty, you would have realized that I was appalled (shocked, dismayed (a feeling of disappointment) that someone who I thought was a learned fellow do not know the difference between getting information from a "Newspaper" and from "Tv" and "internet". If this is not "appalling" enough, he doesn't know the word "biased" can't be a verb.

I know people like you and I have stated it before; 7/10 eloquence, 0 intelligence and only learned fellows like us know that eloquence doesn't equate to intelligence.

"Whenever you come to Nigeria"? Lol. So you live outside the country and you don't know how Biden has bundled the evacuation process? Waste of abroad space! Come back to Nigeria so you can be listening to NTA and AIT!

My God you don't know when to quit. It's as if you enjoy me abusing you, like Stockholm syndrome. Since you enjoy it let me continue eh.

I'm sorry, it wasn't 4 times you used biased improperly it was 5.
1.)

Meninmen:
You will be sounding like a clown though if you want to argue that only Fox news is bias.

2.)

Meninmen:
CNN was hugely bias in favour of the Obama adm and against the Trump adm for example.

3.)

Meninmen:
Same way Fox news was bias in favour of the Trump adm,

4.)

Meninmen:
was bias against Obama and it's being bias against Biden adm (even though that of Fox news is worse). If you are arguing this, then I need to know when you started following US Politics.

5.)

Meninmen:
(This is where CNN has an edge). Both CNN and Foxnews are bias !

And I explained to you what a connotation of a word is and yet you STILL drone on about definitions. Technically you used the word properly but a "learned" fellow like yourself should know its still not the best usage or word choice.
How are you disproving my point about you? "So they argue, stand in their ignorance and huff and puff using inflated words. All in turn betraying the fact that they are little and insecure."

Us Learned fellows eh... Lol.. Let me leave you small.
Fyi, a smarter man would have figured out that I'm based in the US by now.

Meninmen:
Lol. Empty drums actually make the loudest noise! Keep running from pillar to post. You wouldn't acknowledge the corrections I made to your blunder?

Clown!

I corrected your use of bias[ed] multiple times. I even posted a link with the usage. A mistake happens once (like a mistype when you're multitasking (verb vs. adjective)), when you do something 4 times, it means you haven't seen the word constructed in a sentence. That means you don't read as much as you'd like people to believe.

appalled adjective : affected by strong feelings of shock and dismay.
You're usage was inappropriate. Beyond the literal meaning of a word, words have connotations(the feeling/s the word invokes). Appalled invokes shock at something particularly horrifying. That connotation didn't fit your usage of it.

Proper Usage: the Allied commanders were appalled to learn that 300 glider troops had drowned at sea.
Your Usage: And not knowing when to use "newspapers" and "digital newspapers" is quite appalling!

And check out some of it's synonyms
Synonyms for appalling
abhorrent, abominable, awful, disgusting, distasteful, dreadful, evil, foul, fulsome, gross, hideous, horrendous, horrible, horrid, loathsome, nasty, nauseating, nauseous, noisome, noxious, obnoxious, obscene, odious, offensive, rancid, repellent (also repellant), repugnant, repulsive, revolting, scandalous, shocking, sickening, ugly

I hope you can see the difference.
Using "appalled" in the way you did, just makes people think your vocabulary is limited and your trying to inflate your own intelligence/importance by using what you think are big words.. improperly.

And that brings me to my final point. When I'm in Nigeria I tend to meet a lot of people like you. People who don't know how little they really know. And too proud to admit it. So they argue, stand in their ignorance and huff and puff using inflated words. All in turn betraying the fact that they are little and insecure. I find it funny as if no one can see through that. Case in point. You should pay me for schooling you.

I'm all for fact checks, but this seems to have somewhat of a bias. I tend to discount the analysis of anyone that touts the figure that there hasn't been any Us deaths in the last few years or makes the argument that a small force of 2500 was keeping Afghan stable for the last year without qualifying that with fact that the US and Taliban had a US Withdrawal agreement which included a cease fire, which would therefore preclude the need for a larger force and prevent any deaths in that period. This fact check does the former.

Meninmen:
Lol. And what have you learned? That biased is an adjective and not a verb. That my use of the word "appalling" was rightly used in the sentence. You seemed to have displayed more of eloquence than intelligence.

Me: Made a mistake on bias(ed)
You: Called biased a verb. Used "newspapers" incorrectly. Didn't know that the word "appalling" fits the message I was conveying. I had to explain it to him. I have corrected you more than twice. And he is still chest thumping. What a doofus!

All your points of arguments in this thread have shown a deep lack of understanding of the issues at hand.

1. Only one with an infantile brain like you doesn't know Biden has screwed up the evacuation. I hope you have watched CNN today? The criticism of Biden continues. I hope you are aware there are many American citizens trapped in Afghanistan who can't assess the airport and the US military have said they don't have the capacity to move beyond the airport.

2. Only one with no intelligence at all wouldn't have known that with a force of 2500 troops Biden met on ground, there was no need reducing that number (infact, reinforcements who have been sent) to allow for safe return of Americans currently trapped in Afghanistan. And in your lame argument, you said sending such reinforcements would have not been easy. Planning, supply lines would need time to be created bla bla bla. Lol. How long did it take for Biden to send back 1000 troops into Afghanistan when the situation was getting out of control? In your shallow mind, troops deployments must come from continental US? Lol. Clown!

3. As for Fox news that you keep bleating about, if you had read to understand, you would have known that I rarely read Fox news (because of reasons I had explained), still they are an imperfect alternative to the liberal media. It would only take high level situational awareness of world events to be able to sieve out what you get from Fox news (and CNN too). And if you were not dumb, I explained to you that both CNN and fox news show biases but that of Fox news is worse.

It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing...

Meninmen:
Lol. Continue disgracing yourself by trying to teach what you don't know. No wonder you tried to defend the shambolic pull out of US troops from Afghanistan and also tried to dispute the fact that both CNN and Fox news have biases.

So baised is a verb? Wonderful!

As for my use of appalling, yes it was delibrate. It was so bad and shocking to me that after correcting me, you didn't know the basic difference between getting information from newspapers and from TV and the internet. I can't tell a 5 years old that I watch CNN and Aljazeera and he will go on to say I get my news from newspapers. It's that bad!

Congrats, you googled bias and used it properly.. I'm glad you've learned something in this thread.

While you're at it google "false equivalency". That's what it is when you equate Fox News and CNN. Fox and CNN both have a bias (This is what I wrote previously: "If I need to watch news I do watch CNN, the hosts may have a bias but it is still the best factual news network there is.)", the difference is CNN's reporting is largely factual, Fox on the other hand creates an alternative reality devoid of facts and logic. There have been studies done that people who watch Fox News are less informed than people who watch no news at all. Imagine that, watching Fox news makes you dumber.... You seem to be a case in point.

Meninmen:
Lol. I told you I read "newspapers"? The fact that you would equate TV and internet as source of information to "newspapers" calls to question the type of education you have received. And not knowing when to use "newspapers" and "digital newspapers" is quite appalling!

Woah, it is appalling to say newspaper instead of digital newspaper. lol. More appalling than not knowing the difference between a noun and a verb (bias vs. biased)? And did you open up a thesaurus to find the word "appalling" (should have opened up a dictionary for "bias" as well)? Or do you use it only when you want to sound smarter than you are? As to type of education I received.. not a battle you can win.. so, if I were you I'd just let that go.

Meninmen:
You seem to lack understanding of events happening even though you claim to get your news from mostly American news media.

1. I have said Biden is being criticized by the left, right and even Independents for what has happened. If you are arguing this, then sorry for you. The picture below is from CNN this morning. If CNN is criticizing Biden for what has happened, then you should know it is very bad. But you sit somewhere in one hole in Nigeria (or anywhere in the world you are arguing from) to say what you don't understand.
The day Biden made his broadcast, it was criticized by CNN for blaming everyone else except himself! This is CNN, not Fox News.

2. Biden messed up the withdrawal! Even though Trump played a part in this mess, Americans do not know how to blame past leaders. They blame the current occupant of the office and as they will say "The buck stop at his table".

3. All what Biden said prior to take over of Kabul turned out to be the opposite, compounding his woes.

I really do not know what you are bleating about!


You will be sounding like a clown though if you want to argue that only Fox news is bias. CNN was hugely bias in favour of the Obama adm and against the Trump adm for example. Same way Fox news was bias in favour of the Trump adm, was bias against Obama and it's being bias against Biden adm (even though that of Fox news is worse).

Your improper use of the word "bias" is grating. It should be "Fox news was bias[ed] in favour of the Trump adm". I think you've used it improperly 4 times already so it's not a mistake.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/bias

The fact that you've never seen "bias" constructed in a sentence leads me to further disbelieve that you actually read a wide array of newspapers.

Meninmen:
Looking at where you get your news from, I'm not surprised about your narrow view on this issue. Everyday, I watch Aljazeera, CNN, and sometimes BBC and read news from CNN, Foxnews (sometimes), EurAsian times, Global times. I have a paid subscription to NY times and Washington post (even though I may unsubscribe soon because my email is now full of notifications, especially from NYT). I also read South China morning post. I don't even read Foxnews that much because I feel their news is too "American", with very little news from other parts of the world (This is where CNN has an edge). Both CNN and Foxnews are bias!

My advise to you is to read wide. Your list of media outlets you get your news from will mostly give you the "American perspective of world events".

And if truly you get your news from these "American media news outlets", you should know Biden is in a tough corner right now because of recent events. He is being criticized from right and left, and rightly so!

Based on what you've been arguing, I don't believe that list. If you do have those subscriptions, you should cancel them as you are wasting your money, as it doesn't seem you really read them. Evidenced by your last few posts; they were poorly thought out and betrayed a lack of depth in what you were talking about. Look, you're trying to equate Fox News and CNN. smh And I think you meant CNN and Fox News are bias[ed].

Meninmen:
US troops withdrawal from Afghanistan has been an eyesore and a total disgrace! Only people with infantile brain tissue will argue this!

You are no longer sticking with your argument of debt and bad economy as the reason for the pull out? Incoherent fellow!

And for your information, I read and listen to CNN, foxnews, unlike you that listen to CNN alone!

Quote my post on "debt and bad economy"... Never made it. As I said, read more.
If I need to watch news I do watch CNN, the hosts may have a bias but it is still the best factual news network there is. Fox News is a joke. It's like watching WWE and pretending it's real wrestling. The hosts don't even believe what they are saying. They are actors lying to people for a paycheck. Yet you gullibly lap it up.
I read a lot. I have a subscription to the NY times and the Washington Post. I also read Politico, Axios and the BBC at times. To see what conservatives are thinking I go to National Review, but it's hard to read as it all sounds like propaganda and they tend to make tortured arguments with tortured logic because they are trying to fit a viewpoint.

Again, Good Luck. Replying to you has ceased to be interesting.

descartes400:
[/b]

The Joke is on you. Trump is deficient quiet alright, like every other human being...But one thing is obvious about him..He has the capacity to lead and very effective at that compare to your Dementia Joe Biden who has been within the corridor of Washington Politics for almost 47 years and with all the assumed years of experience in foreign affairs, thought it wise to evacuate the military first then the civilians.

Trump is much smarter than Biden and his administration,
you evacuate the people first
You evacuate the military equipment next
3rd, you evacuate the military
A 5th grader could have figured this out but your Joe isn't smarter than a 5th grader. He has shown the people this without doubt in the past 7 months of his administration.

Your Joe Biden has never been correct on foreign affairs. Afghanistan demonstrated his complete ineptitude, one can only imagine what he will do next.


Your Joe did away with Trump's " conditional Withdrawal" do you understand the concept of one of the " Trump conditions" let me educated you...was if the Taliban controlled more than 5% of the territory all bets are off .


Trump isn't the president anymore. This falls on your Joe Biden and the whole world knows that.

Idiot, Trump started the evacuation. Ask yourself if Trump believed they only controlled 5% of the country why would he be negotiating our withdrawal with them instead of the Afghan govt. and why release 5000 of their soldiers to do so. There was no Conditional Withdrawal. That's why he fired his Defense Sec. because he told him the Taliban was going back on the agreement and it wasn't wise to continue. You heard his words. He reduced the troop level from 14000 to 2500. The list you gave, HE DIDN'T DO. But you are using the list to say that he was somehow competent. Jesus, I think Trump sycophants' in the US are demented but what type of Crazy do you have to be to be in Nigerian supporting a man like Trump. SEEK HELP.

Meninmen:
Stop beating around the bush. Biden is feeling the heat. Even Pro-Democrat news media like CNN are roasting Biden. UK and Germany have laid the blame solely on the US.

A leader ought to be dynamic, not static. With an orderly pull out not feasible by Sept 11, Biden ought to have extended the pull out date even if it is September next year so there would be more time for safe evacuation. By that way, it wouldn't appear the US is "running from the Taliban" as it's been portrayed now. It is a major PR Victory for the Taliban and Countries like Iran that want the US out of the entire middle east. This was the case during the Vietnam war when the US "ran from the Vietnam with their tail between their legs. Now, under Biden, it has happened in Afghanistan, making many Americans compare the situation to the Vietnam situation and many have said this is worse.

If you say Biden didn't know the Taliban didn't have the capacity to overrun the Afghan military even while we were witnessing the Taliban gaining more territories until they got to Kabul, then Biden and his intelligence officials need to have their brains checked! Even a Child would have known that the Taliban will take Kabul with the momentum they were having. Kabul was not the first place to be taken. The Taliban captured far away provinces and was getting close to Kabul, but Biden was saying the Taliban can't capture Kabul, Afghan military will fight (even when the Taliban was already defeating Afghan military in the provinces they captured).

Lol. And you sound very Naive if you think China wouldn't want a piece of American military hardware so they can study it. The silver lining is that most of the equipments that must have fallen into the hands of the Taliban are not "highgrade".

I guess it was you that tried to pull an excuse of US debts for this shambolic withdrawal. Lol. Na today the US start to owe debts? Funny human being!

I actually care little about what the Media says and at this point attaching blame. The media hyperventilates as usual to keep eyes on their 24 hour news. And until there are actual hearings in Congress, we won't get a definitive idea of what truly went wrong. Biden is the President and for better or worse he will be responsible. But not every time something goes wrong did someone do something wrong. But that takes emotional intelligence to understand. Not sure you're there yet.

But, I think you should read up on war and troop deployments. You seem to know little about it. It's like you are playing a video game in your head. You push a button and a massive amount of troops, supply lines and intelligence are deployed and stationed when you want them and in the interim the enemy just allows all this to happen.

Seriously though, there has been a ton of great reporting on this. Google it, and read it, it's actually quite interesting. But it requires some discernment and logical reasoning. Again, from what you've already written, not sure you're mature or smart enough. And turn off Fox News, I'm 100% sure that's where you get most of your "News" (by your "Pro Democrat" News comment). Good Luck.

descartes400:
No body is arguing that the Troops should for ever remain in Afghanistan. Trump knew that and that's why he initiated the process of Troops withdrawal.

What we are saying is that the method of execution of the Troop withdrawal would have certainly been different from the choatic scene we all saw were it to be Trump. Trump will be strategic and methodical.

The Taliban respected and feared Trump. Infact Trump said about 11 hours ago that he warned the presumed Taliban leader Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar in discussions last year that the United States will strike back tenfold if an American was harmed or the militants encroached on un approved areas. That deal, he said, appears to be mooted as the Taliban raged through the country and took Kabul within a matter of days while Americans and Westerners are trapped within. He said; I told him upfront...let me tell you right now that if anything happens to Americans or anybody else or if you ever come over to our land
We will hit you with force that no country has ever been hit with before. A force so great that you won't even believe it....
...That's Trump talking.

NOW! imagined how Trump Administration handled the US southern border compare to how the Biden Admistration is handling it NOW!

You know Trump fired his defense secretary Esper after he lost the election because Esper thought his plan to remove troops form Afghanistan was hasty, too quick and irresponsible and would cause problems. He got a new Defence Secretary who did it and finished it a week before Biden came into office. But you are arguing Trump would have been strategic and methodical? No one believed that even his Defense Secretary who left.

And Trump released 5000 Taliban soldiers which the Taliban used to take over Afhanistan. He also released the man who is now the leader of the Taliban. And after the Taliban took over, they released all the AlQuaeda from prison. Yes, the Taliban really feared Trump. Lol

Stop worshiping a man , especially one as deficient as Trump.

Meninmen:
I'm confused? Lol. Okay, let me do a quick recap. You said the Afghan president fled and the Afghan army disintegrated without fighting for their country. And I said those are not really the issues as it relates to this discussion. This whole debacle is as a result of the poor foresight of the US government (Trump and Biden, but since Biden is the current POTUS, the buck stops at his table, as the Americans will say).

Don't be deceived. There have always been reports that the Afghan military can't stand the Taliban. Infact, some reports indicated the Afghan military were arming the Talibans. For example, the US Congress created SIGAR – the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction since 2008 has continually released report on Afghanistan. There are several reports indicating that the Afghan military is not disciplined enough to withstand the Taliban advances. Only a government without foresight will put it's 100% hope on the Afghan military.

Actually, most of your write up is meaningless though. I have never said Trump has no part in this show of shame. All your write up about the timeline of events and Trump's role is quite meaningless.

During Biden's speech he blamed Trump (and everyone else). How come Biden followed through with Trump's plan and still you stand there to blame him? I'm not a fan of Trump, but please don't tell me he was boxed in because of the deal Trump made with the Taliban. If he was really boxed in, then he should have completed the withdrawal in May which was the agreement.

Biden is the C-in-C and just as he has rightly said, the buck stops at his table. Trump is no longer president.

This is what I think he should have done. With the Taliban continuing to attack Afghan forces and provinces in violation of the agreement they had with the Trump adm, he would have stopped the US military pull out (and even send more military to Afghan). No one would have blamed him because the Talibans were not keeping with their side of the bargain. With a strong military presence, evacuation of people and equipments would have been done more orderly and safely. Actually, what has compounded Biden's problems is what he has said with his mouth. He said helicopter will not be used to evacuate US embassy officials in Kabul as was done in Saigon. He said the Taliban can't overrun the country. He said the Afghan military can stand and fight. All of these turned out to be false. If all of these statements were because of assurances given to him by his intelligence officials, then we need to start scrutinizing all of his appointments.


The white house have admitted that "a fair amount of weapons have fallen into the hands of the Taliban". If you don't know that China has always bought US weapons from countries and groups for the purpose of studying American military technology, then you are not as knowledgeable as you are fronting!

The singular issue is that the Afghan army we trained for 20 years at a cost of 88 BILLION US gave up their weapons and fled.

This stuff is about context. I assume everyone believed the Afghan Govt. wouldn't last, hence the negotiations with the Taliban and the rush to remove Afghanis who worked with the US. The issue is that the consensus view of all the intelligence and military was that the Afghan army could hold on for some time and maybe hold onto Kabul. Few people expected it to collapse the way it did. The evacuation plan was drawn up given that consensus view. The Afghan army failed spectacularly. These guys aren't witches that can divine the future. Mistakes do happen with Intelligence.

Now, why the write up? To give you context as to Biden's decision. I'm sorry, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you would glean some context into Biden's decision esp. regarding the troop deployment issues. Once Trump reduced the troop level to 2500, it triggered a lot of other things. It meant they had to bring home all their armaments, had to close down bases, lost significant intel capabilities (you would be fighting insurgents in Kabul not knowing who is part of the Taliban), lost all the support lanes, would have to retake and re-clear all the places the troops departed. And to prevent the Taliban's march to Kabul, that is what would have had to happen. And that wouldn't have happened without significant fighting and loss of US life. That is what Trump meant when he said he started the process and they couldn't stop it. Yes, Biden could have sent the troops back, given all the obstacles I listed above, but he knew if he send more Troops in they would possibly be there for years. There was no option to reengage in a battle with the Taliban, without a lengthy and EXPENSIVE (blood and treasure) fight. And that's what would have happened on May 1st.

This China stuff makes you sound ridiculous. China has world class hackers, spies and money which means they could have already gotten their hands on the type of US systems we left behind if they wanted. The highly sensitive stuff, the US would have removed early on or destroyed on the way out exactly like you saw all the fires in the Embassy raging. The issue is not the China or Russia getting the weapons but terrorists getting them or Taliban having better weapons in the future if we need to go back (but the weapons require know how and US parts in order to maintain, and good luck with the Taliban getting that).

Krismas:
Who exactly do u tink d Taliban is? Space men? They are Afghans! So, wot do u mean Afghans cud not secure their country from Taliban? As for protracted pull out of troops or wotever u mean, its d same in the end. Do know that song by Linkin Park IN THE END, IT DOESNT REALLY M-A-T-T-E-R OH OH? All dat twenty yrs, how good was the US in securing civilians from the Taliban? Who has The Taliban attacked since it took control of the country? Why is there so much noise for NOTHING? Wot useless US equipment will fall into Taliban hands? Equipment dat cud not help the US escape defeat? Wot does Taliban need such equipment for? Wot does Russia and China need it for? If the Taliban beat US forces in their teeming numbers is it wen the US military is withdrawing small small that Taliban will become helpless? Listen to Joe Biden, THERE IS NEVER A BETTER TIME TO WITHDRAW. If they delayed the withdrawal till next year, it will still be bad.

What US force did the Taliban defeat? What battle did the Taliban win? The US wasn't defeated. We did what we came there for and should have left a decade ago. We just left. And don't get too full of yourself, the Taliban drove up in US Humvees with US weapons, flying US helicopters they took when the Afghan army surrendered. Cleary they needed such equiptment.

And I'm ashamed for the Afghanistan. We gave them superior weapons and training and in the end they were either cowards or comfortable allowing their mothers/sisters/daughters to be raped and oppressed by the Taliban.

descartes400:
Why I referenced Trump is because he would have done a better job than Biden!

Biden just blamed trump . It was trumps policy. That’s funny because so far Joe’s only policy has been to undo trumps , check the borders crisis. But in this calamity it’s all trumps fault . He is such a disgrace. Joe biden will go down as the worst president to live in the white house

Biden acts as if he was bound by the agreement President Trump made. The man has overturned virtually everything President Trump has done, doing so in this case would've been just another day at the office. What a lame excuse.

I agree the Afghans needs to step up to the plate, after nearly 20 years of support. However, the withdrawal without any pre-conditions is just another blunder from incompetent President Joe Biden

President Trump’s agreement was “conditions-based”. The Taliban ignored those conditions under Biden, and Biden ignored them as well. No excuse for Biden’s inept and disastrous pull-out.

This is not a question whether The US stay in Afghanistan. It is an issue of his negligence of planning and due diligence for a credible withdrawal. Yet still he tries to deflect.

As for the US mid-term Election slated for November next year is I believe the Republicans will claim the house back and probably impeach this inept President.

I'll leave you Trump's own words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAr3NpYVkpI
"I started the process, All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process. 21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. [The Biden administration] couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process."

Meninmen:
You really do not understand the issue here. That the Afghan president fled his country is not the issue. That Afghan soliders and Afghan citizens couldn't defend their country against the Taliban is not the issue here. They can flee from the country and allow the Talibans take over, their cup of tea. The issue here is the Manner the US hurriedly pulled out it's troops from Afghanistan, emboldening the Taliban to capture more terrotries. Now, there are still Americans, and Aghans who helped the US who are still in Afghanistan. The hurried withdrawal has put their lives in danger. You saw how helicopter was used to evacuate occupants of the US embassy? The last time that happened was during the Vietnam war when the US came back embarrassed. Few days ago, Biden sent 1,000 troops back Afghanistan to secure the safe evacuation of Americans, allies, and some Afghans that helped the US. If this is not confusion, I don't know what It is.

It is a show of shame for the US. We are not even talking of America weapons that have fallen into the hands of the Taliban that will find their way into the hands of China and Russia. The pull out was shambolic, chaotic and embarrassing! I guess meeting the deadline for pull out was more important to Biden than ensuring the safe evacuation of persons and equipments.

Lol. I think you are confused. "That Afghan soldiers and Afghan citizens couldn't defend their country against the Taliban" is the issue. If the Afghan soldiers could defend Kabul, then Taliban wouldn't have been there and all those images you saw wouldn't have happened. The US didn't plan on closing the embassy that soon, as they thought the Afghan army could stand up to the Taliban. So, there was a mad rush to close the embassy and evacuate everyone as the AFGHAN ARMY defected and let the Taliban take over the WHOLE country.

As to the weapons; most of them were already evacuated. The weapons the Taliban have are the ones they took from the Aghan army who defected (again, you see how that matters). Or do you think the US should have taken back the Guns, tanks and planes we gave them before we left. And China/Russia needs those weapons? lol. Jesus, get a clue.

And as to the helicopter. No, that wasn't the last time it was used.

Honestly, these aren't easy issues. Try to do more thinking and less talking. I'll post this again so you can get a better idea of what brought us here:
Trump made a deal with the Taliban (without the current Afghan government in the room), that by May 1st 2021 the US would leave. And the US wanted a cease fire until then. In return the Trump admin would release 5000 prisoners (one of them who is the Taliban Leader now). In the process Trump drew down the troops and all the supplies needed to maintain them from 14000 to 2500 which was finished the week before Biden was sworn in. He boxed Biden in and bragged about it. He effectively gave the country over to the Taliban. His own words.

https://twitter.com/WUTangKids/status/1427325408148590597
"I started the process, All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process. 21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. [The Biden administration] couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process."

So, on May 1st the Taliban was going to start a new offensive with the aid of the 5000 newly released prisoners. Biden had 2 choices, surge more troops in so he could have time to draw them down or pull everyone out (the same things the Generals told Obama more than 10 years ago); he didn't want to get again boxed in by the military to keep troops for another 10 years. He extended the deadline from May till Sept. He thought he would have 6 month then 90 days.. well until the Afghan army folded. Just to get an idea, Trump left 2500 troops there before he left, we have about 6000 troops there now just to offer protection for the evacuation. If Biden would have wanted to stay longer he would have needed to surge some people say another 100,000 troops to fight the Taliban.

Meninmen:
Bro, there is nothing intelligent about Biden's pull out. On the contrary, it shows a white house that didn't have any contingency plans, that didn't do a proper risk assessment before the pull out, and that erroneously underated the Taliban. So you think need to stimulate the American economy and other excuses you gave is the reason for this shambolic pull out? Lol.

You will know Biden messed up big time when even the prime minister of a country that is the number 1 ally of the US (UK) is indirectly putting the blame for this mess on the US.

And for your information, economy, debts have never stopped the US from carrying out anything militarily!

It was the US Military's contingency plans. And no-one will believe they didn't have any. Plans are only as good as the intelligence you get and and I don't think Biden had intelligence saying the Afghan army we trained for 20 years at a cost of almost 100Billion US would lay their guns down and run away and the Taliban would take over the country in a week. Shit, the President fled. Maybe, they should have known. I believe in helping people, but I can't send my family to fight/die for you if yours won't fight/die for you. I was mad seeing all those young men fleeing the country... pick up a gun and defend your home.

falseprophet:
Afghanistan is not in any chaos, the streets are safer now than when America were running things.

Taliban is already offering amnesty to saboteurs and it can only get better from here.

Don't let western media fool you into thinking "Afghanistan have fallen"

They are safer for you, buy you're not a woman or little girl who will be forced into marriage (rape). But I'm sure you knew that and would properly fit in well alongside the Taliban.

Jeezuzpick:
Yeah.

Great.

So now he's "sacrificed" about 20,000 Americans and millions of sympathetic Afghans who aided the US occupation forces to the Taliban.

I hope you're aware that many Americans are currently trapped in Afghanistan?

I think a lot of people here don't actually know what happened.
Trump made a deal with the Taliban (without the current Afghan government in the room), that by May 1st 2021 the US would leave. And the US wanted a cease fire until then. In return the Trump admin would release 5000 prisoners (one of them who is the Taliban Leader now). In the process Trump drew down the troops and all the supplies needed to maintain them from 14000 to 2500 which was finished the week before Biden was sworn in. He boxed Biden in and bragged about it. He effectively gave the country over to the Taliban. His own words.

https://twitter.com/WUTangKids/status/1427325408148590597
"I started the process, All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process. 21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. [The Biden administration] couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process."

So, on May 1st the Taliban was going to start a new offensive with the aid of the 5000 newly released prisoners. Biden had 2 choices, surge more troops in so he could have time to draw them down or pull everyone out (the same things the Generals told Obama more than 10 years ago); he didn't want to get again boxed in by the military to keep troops for another 10 years. He extended the deadline from May till Sept. He thought he would have 6 month then 90 days.. well until the Afghan army folded. Just to get an idea, Trump left 2500 troops there before he left, we have about 6000 troops there now just to offer protection for the evacuation. If Biden would have wanted to stay longer he would have needed to surge some people say another 100,000 troops to fight the Taliban.

So, ask yourself what would you have done?

oladipuposadeeq:
if its 2.5m then he shldnt be lying down abeg he go either turn to the motor or by another one

You can't squeeze water from a stone. Even if you beat him finish, it's not getting you back that money. I would never hand over my key to anyone working on my car who I know couldn't afford to fix the car if damaged.

oladipuposadeeq:
The cost of repair alone would be estimated to about 500k if not more now anybody buying wouldnt want to hear that it was a washerman that damaged it hence repainting the front part so that guy has devalue that car. I don't know what I would do if I am the owner of the car besides if I will take a client's car to a car wash I hold the key i can't stammer to the owner that one unfortunate car wash guy damaged it.

500k ke? That damage will start at at least 2.5 million. That's assuming it doesn't have any engine damage given the engine is further back in that car.

He was kidnapped. He is/was not in Nigerian on his own volition. All the quoted texts about what happens when you break a law in the country of your nationality does not apply here. Britain has an intense interest that it's citizens are not kidnapped when they leave the country. Even if the UK wanted it to happen, it wouldn't have went down this way. Britain looks weak.